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Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:33:00 - [301] Originally by: L70Rogue Ships have never been as fast as they are now except probably when you could use 2 mwds, I bet people out there are already setting up speed fitted battleships and battlecruisers but we'll have to see when the complaints come in. Remove polycarbons, snakes, and nerf MWDs just a bit. If there's a kind of people I can't stand, are those who fart higher than their butt, use a septic tank as brain and constantly brag utter crap. TO ALL: A free Golem to the first one who can tell me the main of this tard (with proof ofc).
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:35:00 - [302] Originally by: Semkhet Originally by: L70Rogue Ships have never been as fast as they are now except probably when you could use 2 mwds, I bet people out there are already setting up speed fitted battleships and battlecruisers but we'll have to see when the complaints come in. Remove polycarbons, snakes, and nerf MWDs just a bit. If there's a kind of people I can't stand, are those who fart higher than their butt, use a septic tank as brain and constantly brag utter crap. TO ALL: A free Golem to the first one who can tell me the main of this tard (with proof ofc). I'll risk on Johnny JoJo --- planetary interaction idea!
Shin Ra Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:37:00 - [303] Speed is like the best tactic to avoid death. Before there were stabs, damps, nos, ecm - all viable modules for ANY ship. Now even specialised ships have trouble with some of those mods. Specialisation is great, but rock/paper/scissors in EVE is bad.
Malcore Trisus Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:55:00 - [304] I love threads like these, if only to continue to highlight the disparity in thinking between different players. I have a lot of experience with nanohacs. I fly one occationally (though I prefer non-nanoships), I kill them often, and plenty of my corpmates swear by them. The PL killboards are littered with kills and losses of nanohacs, vagas, and ridiculously fast sabres. A competent group of players has all of the tools they need to deal with even the most rediculous setups yet people continue to overlook them. Some have been mentioned already here, other, more out of the box setups are out there and used to great effect. I'm not sure whether it's laziness, frustration, or lack of knowledge that causes people who don't use the tools available to come on these forums and whine. In the end, it doesn't really matter. Regardless of what gets nerfed, whether it's speed, damps, ECM, or whatever is considered overpowered this patch cycle, the players that are beating you now will continue to beat you. As Awox's example earlier in this thread proved, the failure to catch and destroy nanohacs comes down to player skill and proper teamwork, which coincidentally are what the nanohac gangs themselves require. Baring some rediculous change such as hard caps on speed, the better players will just adapt again and develop another style of fighting. They'll use skill and teamwork, and the same people who are here whining about nanos will be back, whining about something else. Honestly I wouldn't mind a significant nerf to speed setups, not because I see them as overpowered, but because it means I have to adapt and become better.
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:17:00 - [305] Originally by: Malcore Trisus I love threads like these, if only to continue to highlight the disparity in thinking between different players. I have a lot of experience with nanohacs. I fly one occationally (though I prefer non-nanoships), I kill them often, and plenty of my corpmates swear by them. The PL killboards are littered with kills and losses of nanohacs, vagas, and ridiculously fast sabres. A competent group of players has all of the tools they need to deal with even the most rediculous setups yet people continue to overlook them. Some have been mentioned already here, other, more out of the box setups are out there and used to great effect. I'm not sure whether it's laziness, frustration, or lack of knowledge that causes people who don't use the tools available to come on these forums and whine. In the end, it doesn't really matter. Regardless of what gets nerfed, whether it's speed, damps, ECM, or whatever is considered overpowered this patch cycle, the players that are beating you now will continue to beat you. As Awox's example earlier in this thread proved, the failure to catch and destroy nanohacs comes down to player skill and proper teamwork, which coincidentally are what the nanohac gangs themselves require. Baring some rediculous change such as hard caps on speed, the better players will just adapt again and develop another style of fighting. They'll use skill and teamwork, and the same people who are here whining about nanos will be back, whining about something else. Honestly I wouldn't mind a significant nerf to speed setups, not because I see them as overpowered, but because it means I have to adapt and become better. Sensible post, except nerfing speed since no matter the new fighting style it will probably become way more static. The problem with whiners of all kinds, and more specifically nanowhiners, is that they turn the tune around like a scratched record. You could almost fill up a tome of the Encyclopedia Britannica with all the threads on the subject, and no matter the amount of tactics & counters which have been mentioned countless times, all you get is the impression you're dealing with peeps suffering Alzheimer...
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:41:00 - [306] Originally by: Turin Speed is.... annoying. Everyone knows speed is SLIGHLTY broke. don't talk anymore, respected you up this point, but have no use for you or your alliance. You are so wrong its ******** and ridiculous.... you can't possibly understand how to pvp or have any positive impact.... goodbye... you are a joke
Malcore Trisus Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.15 23:52:00 - [307] Originally by: Semkhet Sensible post, except nerfing speed since no matter the new fighting style it will probably become way more static. The problem with whiners of all kinds, and more specifically nanowhiners, is that they turn the tune around like a scratched record. You could almost fill up a tome of the Encyclopedia Britannica with all the threads on the subject, and no matter the amount of tactics & counters which have been mentioned countless times, all you get is the impression you're dealing with peeps suffering Alzheimer... Oh I certainly agree. Reduce the ability of cruisers to speed tank and close distances and all you have left are RR battleship blobs, which though effective, is really quite boring. Speaking for the type of gangs that I fly in, speed lets us engage enemies when their numbers would normally mean suicide. Reducing that means less PVP, which is really a terrible thing.
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:10:00 - [308] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson Quote: I can't believe so many people want to nerf speed just for sake of nerfing it. Where are these people coming from? I don't think EVE community was like this 2 years ago. seriously... the world of warcraft expatriots would have this game flipped upside down and catering to mainly mission running if they had been here first. as it turned out though the first eve players were sick of that kind of game play and wanted something more open ended. They played a key role in helping ccp to swing eve into a niche in the gaming market favoring pvp over ease of operation. I have been flying in 0.0 for years now and I have never felt any problems were present with nanoships. they come and go, maybe gank 1 npc'er whos not paying attention or something and then get chased off. If you are constantly having problems with these ships. band together with your corp mates and do something about it rather than sitting off in a belt somewhere watching teletubbies while you get ganked. Dont call for changes that will in the end do nothing but bring forth another FOTM and make ships that people have spent a year+ training for completely useless. speed needs to be nerfed because it breaks the "rock paper scissor" design ccp uses. speed allows you to engage whomever you like and anything short of a huggin or another vagabond isn't going to even be able to fight back because of turret and missle explosion velocity. if they introduced more counters for nano based ships like webs OTHER then officer webs that reached out to 30km I'd call it balanced because then there would be a counter.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:21:00 - [309] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Kagura Nikon you can solve this with a fe options: 1- Leave the worst gang ever 2- Leave the worst FC ever 3- Leave your cloak and 3 stabs at home (no other way i believe you would not be able to lock him). 3- Bring a Neut Ship 4- bring a rapier/Huggin 5- Bring a baalhgorn 6- Bring a nanoship 7- bring a few Myrmidon with 3 drone speed mods and warrior II (can catch any T2 only nano hac) 8- Smartly throw a bomb in his direction when he is approaching (yes a single bomb pops a vagabond with MWD on), but need at least some basic skills 9- Dampen him ( dampeners are still enough to make a vagabond need to get near web range In most cases if nano pilot sees Rapier/Huginn, he won't even engage. Inertia will carry the nano-ship outside neut/scram range. Bringing nano-ship? That only highlights that we have a problem here. Bhaalgorn? And nano-ship will fight when he sees one on scanner? Besides that it's a really viable option for most pilots. I never fly in a gang without faction fitted Bhaalgorn (you know, may be we'll meet a Vaga or two). the optiosn exist. If you dotn want to use them its YOUR problem!!! not mien or CCP A pimped up vagabond can cost FAR more than a baalghron when you include the sanke set. If you want to play cheap its then complain only about the Cheap nano ships too. Also baalghorn also includes the cruor etc... The most anoying nanoships I have ever seen were nano machariel and the old nanophoon before nanonerf. Baalghron was chepaer than those setups and coudl insta wtfpown them. bringign a ship eqqual to enemy is a valid tactic in all situations Peopel show Several options to coutner NORMAL nano ships ( the extremely uberized ones are another issue but they are rare. And then the problem i think its on SNAKE set). If you don 't want to use them its YOUR PROBLEM!!! eve is not about YOUR OWN way of fying beign able to coutenr everything. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:06:00 - [310] Originally by: Reiaandra Ilin Also, to the OP: have you ever met my friend the Rapier? nano ships don't have a ghost of a chance around one of those. And, if you are dumb enough to stick around while the vaga knocks you all off one by one. I must say it and I mean this with all due respect. Please, go back to carebearing because no vaga is gonna wipe out 12 men ((unless they are all in t1 frigs and in a bubble))You don't have to stand and die at every encounter, retreat is honourable enough. No nerf is needed you just need to learn to think tactically. A decent vaga pilot can win :P A Tri huginn/rapier nabbed my vaga at a gate (gasp) MWD right at him, toss on a med nuet, hurts him bad. Drones and gun. He is hurting. I didnt get the kill, I turned around and warped out ;P because I knew tri had a gang on its way. I got out just in time. Happy me.. though I lost my drones. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:13:00 - [311] Originally by: Law Enforcer Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson Quote: I can't believe so many people want to nerf speed just for sake of nerfing it. Where are these people coming from? I don't think EVE community was like this 2 years ago. seriously... the world of warcraft expatriots would have this game flipped upside down and catering to mainly mission running if they had been here first. as it turned out though the first eve players were sick of that kind of game play and wanted something more open ended. They played a key role in helping ccp to swing eve into a niche in the gaming market favoring pvp over ease of operation. I have been flying in 0.0 for years now and I have never felt any problems were present with nanoships. they come and go, maybe gank 1 npc'er whos not paying attention or something and then get chased off. If you are constantly having problems with these ships. band together with your corp mates and do something about it rather than sitting off in a belt somewhere watching teletubbies while you get ganked. Dont call for changes that will in the end do nothing but bring forth another FOTM and make ships that people have spent a year+ training for completely useless. speed needs to be nerfed because it breaks the "rock paper scissor" design ccp uses. speed allows you to engage whomever you like and anything short of a huggin or another vagabond isn't going to even be able to fight back because of turret and missle explosion velocity. if they introduced more counters for nano based ships like webs OTHER then officer webs that reached out to 30km I'd call it balanced because then there would be a counter. there are more counters to nanos than you think. one of them sits right there between your shoulders, on the top of your neck. --- planetary interaction idea!
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:21:00 - [312] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Law Enforcer Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson Quote: I can't believe so many people want to nerf speed just for sake of nerfing it. Where are these people coming from? I don't think EVE community was like this 2 years ago. seriously... the world of warcraft expatriots would have this game flipped upside down and catering to mainly mission running if they had been here first. as it turned out though the first eve players were sick of that kind of game play and wanted something more open ended. They played a key role in helping ccp to swing eve into a niche in the gaming market favoring pvp over ease of operation. I have been flying in 0.0 for years now and I have never felt any problems were present with nanoships. they come and go, maybe gank 1 npc'er whos not paying attention or something and then get chased off. If you are constantly having problems with these ships. band together with your corp mates and do something about it rather than sitting off in a belt somewhere watching teletubbies while you get ganked. Dont call for changes that will in the end do nothing but bring forth another FOTM and make ships that people have spent a year+ training for completely useless. speed needs to be nerfed because it breaks the "rock paper scissor" design ccp uses. speed allows you to engage whomever you like and anything short of a huggin or another vagabond isn't going to even be able to fight back because of turret and missle explosion velocity. if they introduced more counters for nano based ships like webs OTHER then officer webs that reached out to 30km I'd call it balanced because then there would be a counter. there are more counters to nanos than you think. one of them sits right there between your shoulders, on the top of your neck. bull crap. if you're in a cruiser/bc/bs and two vagabonds jump you, you're dead. not to mention that if you somehow manage to get the upper hand anything nano has the capacity to easily run away. and why does it not surprise me to see you flying a huggin with a bunch of vagabonds? http://www.dragonianfreelancers.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2688 partial, just a little?
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:40:00 - [313] Originally by: Law Enforcer bull crap. if you're in a cruiser/bc/bs and two vagabonds jump you, you're dead. You are? BC/BS can easilly tank 2 vagas long enough to deagress and dock/jump. 2 poly rigs cost 100m, for that you can buy a DB web(with change to spare) and over heat it, webbing the vaga out to about 18km. A BS can fit a heavy neut and easilly chase away those vagas. A BC can fit a skirmish warfare mod and get 18km tech two overheated webs for your entire gang.
burek Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.01.16 01:52:00 - [314] Originally by: Law Enforcer and why does it not surprise me to see you flying a huggin with a bunch of vagabonds? http://www.dragonianfreelancers.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2688 Oh yeah, that guy clearly died only because of the huginns and vagas. If they weren't there he obviously would have owned the rest. just GTFO please
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:01:00 - [315] Edited by: Law Enforcer on 16/01/2008 02:03:16 Originally by: burek Originally by: Law Enforcer and why does it not surprise me to see you flying a huggin with a bunch of vagabonds? http://www.dragonianfreelancers.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2688 Oh yeah, that guy clearly died only because of the huginns and vagas. If they weren't there he obviously would have owned the rest. just GTFO please nice way to take what I said out of context. since when was I talking about what the guy killed? oh wait, I wasn't. I was showing what he normally piloted. and to gamesguy, I'm not even going to reply to anyone from triumvirate about nano-related topics. you're obvious very biased.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:03:00 - [316] Originally by: Law Enforcer Edited by: Law Enforcer on 16/01/2008 02:02:46 Edited by: Law Enforcer on 16/01/2008 02:02:09 Originally by: burek Originally by: Law Enforcer and why does it not surprise me to see you flying a huggin with a bunch of vagabonds? http://www.dragonianfreelancers.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2688 Oh yeah, that guy clearly died only because of the huginns and vagas. If they weren't there he obviously would have owned the rest. just GTFO please nice way to take what I said out of context. since when was I talking about what the guy killed? oh wait, I wasn't. I was showing what he normally piloted. and to gamesguy, I'm not even going to reply to anyone from triumvirate about nano-related topics. they're obvious very biased. Concession accepted troll.
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:11:00 - [317] Edited by: Grim Vandal on 16/01/2008 02:13:42 actually imo only the mwd OR the ab is broken ... one of these 2 mods needs to be fixed Greetings Grim
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.01.16 02:59:00 - [318] Edited by: Ernesto Hoost on 16/01/2008 03:02:26 Thread is full of lols I'm betting 100mil, most of the guys complaining about speed ships, are the ones flying missile boats. Since missiles always hit, and you want to nerf speed, can you please tell me how to counter missiles? Speed tanking is the ONLY way. (dont even mention defenders, as believe it or not..there are a whole bunch of ships that only have turret slots) As for the "omg I have to train minmatar recon to be able to web these things" well yes, that is in fact why there is a difference in races. You have to train Caldari recon to be able to perma jamm 4 battle ships. Lets make all races the same eh 1 tracking disruptor can make a Megathron, Vagabond or Tempest useless, its a cheap, mod. IF only there was a mod to make a raven miss. Oh there is...its called an MWD
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.16 03:17:00 - [319] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 16/01/2008 03:24:44 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 16/01/2008 03:24:09 Originally by: Gamesguy Good stuff I think you're giving too much info. Anyway, last time two Vagabonds jumped a friend of mine in a Brutix, he killed one and died to the other guy. I have no idea how he did it, though ;) Last time I was jumped by one in my Cyclone, it buggered off when it got to half shields and had little cap to MWD after me anyway. Just a bit back, one of our war targets in a Vaga was messing with a corp-mate's Myrmidon. Well, Cynabal + 10mn MWD II + web II was enough to web him and kill him. We've been given an awesome tool (heat) just a while ago and people are still whining. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.16 04:16:00 - [320] Originally by: Ernesto Hoost Edited by: Ernesto Hoost on 16/01/2008 03:02:26 Thread is full of lols I'm betting 100mil, most of the guys complaining about speed ships, are the ones flying missile boats. Since missiles always hit, and you want to nerf speed, can you please tell me how to counter missiles? Speed tanking is the ONLY way. (dont even mention defenders, as believe it or not..there are a whole bunch of ships that only have turret slots) As for the "omg I have to train minmatar recon to be able to web these things" well yes, that is in fact why there is a difference in races. You have to train Caldari recon to be able to perma jamm 4 battle ships. Lets make all races the same eh 1 tracking disruptor can make a Megathron, Vagabond or Tempest useless, its a cheap, mod. IF only there was a mod to make a raven miss. Oh there is...its called an MWD ECM and Dampeners work fine against missile ships
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:20:00 - [321] Originally by: L70Rogue ECM and Dampeners work fine against missile ships For all of ten seconds while they load up FOF missiles.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:35:00 - [322] 3-4km/s nanohacs/cruisers ARE NOT GAME BREAKING. All those speed implants, gang bonuses, implants - make them stack with other stuff, but a standard 2-3 od, + 2 polycarbon fit with t2 mwd going 3-4km/s is NOT overpowered.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:35:00 - [323] Edited by: Ephemeron on 16/01/2008 06:41:34 This discussion should have been over 5 pages ago My only fear is that CCP Zulupak is going to take the whiners seriously and use nerfing to tweak the game. Nerfing should be very serious matter, not to be taken lightly at all. (in last dev chat he mentioned speed nerf in very casual manner, as side note to other topic, like it's no big deal at all.) I hope that older devs will show some restraint in using nerfing. Edit: but if I consider the massive nerf introduced in combination of scripted mods, I don't have much hope in older devs either. 50% blanket nerf under disguise of new feature. Ouch. Sensor damps had it coming, but other mods.. collateral damage, like carpet bombing a village to kill 1 enemy.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:39:00 - [324] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Racuel Originally by: Tzar'rim Or do you mean that you want to be invulnerable to the defending force when you enter their station system which they worked hard for to build up? And how exactly are you invulnerable?? hint: You aren't. Sorry, ALMOST unvulnerable. As someone stated, a nano either wins or runs, the defender either dies or doesn't get a kill. It's still WCS :) You do know that all those ratters in 0.0 are 100% safe as well? And it is sooooooo easy to fit a raven that can kill a vaga almost always. And it is sooooooo impossible to kill a proper ratting setup BS with a normal nanohac/cruiser. Vaga will 100% fail vs a properly setup ratting ship. (1v1)
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:26:00 - [325] Originally by: sanctimoniousness Can someone tell me what the problem with WCS was then? "Get a rapier, huggin, curse, webbing interceptors, hyena" Could be the same as "Get an Arazu, Lachesis, extra scram, heavy interdictor" Stabs could be intergrated in every setup and many types of combat, speed setup only works on a selected few ships when you want to roam. Raven with 4x multispec and 2x stab anyone?
Flaming Butterfly	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:45:00 - [326] After playing eve for 3 years -as Futher Bezluden- this game has imho gone down the toilet. CCP can't seem to do anything right -again an opinion- and while has made progress on some fronts they just don't have a clue on others. pvp has boiled down to nanofags and blobbers -or the sick combination "nanoblobs". Don't scream and bother flaming. Futher's been sold and that account terminated. This character gave 1.8 billion to friends and the account runs out 1/24 -character to be terminated. Was fun until warp to zero came in. Nerfing stabs was sweet. The missile changes were cool and made sense. ECM balance -right on! Global HP buff -whatever, killed solo/small gang pvp. NOS balance works but you had designs for Anti-Nos modules. Damp/TD nerf -wtf you are idiots. Scripting is ******** -seriously the icons need to be padded helmets. Nano-BS's -thanks for realizing the problem 3 months later. Nano-Hacs... pull your heads out of your bums. Reduce ship mineral costs by 50% -less expensive, more death and carnage. Dump the HP buff on all but Capitals. Damps/TD's, make gallente/amarr ewar ship mods. Dump Painters and put in Propulsion Disruptor for Minmatar Ewar Ships or a deflector -effectively acts like you just rammed the crap out of the enemy. Rant off, enjoy eve. I used to.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:47:00 - [327] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: sanctimoniousness Can someone tell me what the problem with WCS was then? "Get a rapier, huggin, curse, webbing interceptors, hyena" Could be the same as "Get an Arazu, Lachesis, extra scram, heavy interdictor" Stabs could be intergrated in every setup and many types of combat, speed setup only works on a selected few ships when you want to roam. Raven with 4x multispec and 2x stab anyone? But then again, when everyone uses these speed fitted "select few ships" instead of just "everything" as was the case with warpstabs, the problem is the same. ________________________________________________ Currently training for "caldari overlord I" Thank you ccp!
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:49:00 - [328] Originally by: Flaming Butterfly pvp has boiled down to nanofags and blobbers -or the sick combination "nanoblobs". It looks like pvp in eve has boiled down to a group of people that are whining on the forums about not being able to and a group of peolpe that are actually doing it.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.16 07:52:00 - [329] Edited by: Drasked on 16/01/2008 07:51:48 Originally by: Tasuric Orka But then again, when everyone uses these speed fitted "select few ships" instead of just "everything" as was the case with warpstabs, the problem is the same. No, because a "whole setup" that lets you reach a goal is different from a single mod that is easily integrated in any random setup and making it more survivable without any penalty's.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.16 08:35:00 - [330] Eve PvP slowly but surely is going down the drain. We are now talking about faction mods as some kind of mandatory fitting to stop the current nano-craze. Todays PvP is about ppl who accumulated abnormal amounts of ISK and everyone else might even not bother undocking. Well, there's an option for evryone else - blobbing. That is what this game came to - blobs-online and superpimped one-billion-wonderships. CCP seriously needs to sit down and think hard about how to make this game fun again for those, without 50 bill in the wallet.

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