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Who else sees this as greifing.

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Joana Darklight	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:35:00 - [1] A corp mate was mining and someone in a starter corp came up and took his ore and transfered it to his own can, hoping he would be attacked. Anyways the guy that took the ore after deciding he wouldnt be attacked just shot the can destroying the ore. To me this seems like greifing and I would like to know how this is combated A: cant war dec B: cant fight back cause if you came back in a fight capable ship the guy would run. C: cant call corp mates cause steal flagging isnt corp wide WICH IT SHOUDL BE!!. SO this is nothing more than greifing and I dont know what shoudl be done about it and dont say "dont jet can mine" cause this applies to droped loot and missions Ive had people do the same thing in a mission to me and I cant do anything cause im already taking agro from 20+ BS's engaging another player in a mission setup is a bad idea.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:36:00 - [2] I think it is griefing because there is no profit. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:38:00 - [3] a. deal with it b. Sucks to be you c. yes, he is flagged to your whole corp unless you also in a noob corp Solution: don't mine in a jetcan, or else, deal with it Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Joana Darklight C: cant call corp mates cause steal flagging isnt corp wide WICH IT SHOUDL BE Hmm. Weird. It SHOULD be indeed. Are you 100% sure it isn't ? 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:39:00 - [5] hit F12 if the gm's say it isnt greifing then it isnt griefing
sanctimoniousness	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:40:00 - [6] The world can be a cruel place when you're a low SP player. I suggest you train for a Rapier immediatly. Since that is the only counter to broken mechanics.
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:40:00 - [7] It's not griefing. Jettison can mining was never an intended feature to begin with, and using it, and the advantages you gain from it, means that you have to accept the risks that come with it, including having people steal or destroy your ore. --- MOZO
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:41:00 - [8] Asestorian, it is not griefing? Then what is griefing supposed to be? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:42:00 - [9] I might call it griefing, but it's well within the rules of the game. The best solution is to go mine in lowsec. ^_^ -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:43:00 - [10] Liang but that means she would lose her ship ... --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 14/01/2008 21:44:20 It's basically griefing; the ore thief is throwing a widdle temper-tantwum because someone wouldn't take his lame bait, BAWWWWWWWWWWW. I'm a bored piwwate, so I'm going to get in my Velator and fwip cans in highsec... oh, he didn't take the bait, BAWWWWWWWWW. (Of course, every pirate who is lame enough to love can-flipping is going to quote me on this and offer a dissertation on why can-flipping is not lame and is, in fact, quite awesome.) Also, stealing in and of itself may not flag the thief for the entire corp, but if you shoot him, the thief is instantly flagged if he chooses to shoot you back. Therefore, keep attack drones in your Covetor or Hulk or whatever, and have your corp mates prepared to jump in. Hit him with your drones (or even just one crappy drone), recall the drone, and watch the fun. 'Course the guy may come back in a Raven or whatever, but them's the brakes.
Arvald Caldari Devilish Intentinos	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:44:00 - [12] to quote tarminic "in a game where piracy, stealing, backstabbing and killing are commonplace can you really call what just happened to you greifing?" more or less --------------------------- Originally by: Brea Lafail Care to explain this jargon for those of us who have to call tech support to plug in a toaster?
Joana Darklight	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:44:00 - [13] Ive tried to engage someone who has stolen from a corp mate only secons after and if something isnt stolen while in gang with my corp mate I get a warning and cant shoot, and im not in a noob corp. if its just stealing and the person wants the ore thats fair but just taking and blowing it up hoping for a fight is greifing.
sanctimoniousness	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn It's basically griefing; rhe ore thief is throwing a widdle temper-tantwum because someone wouldn't take his lame bait, BAWWWWWWWWWWW. I'm a bored piwwate, so I'm going to get in my Velator and fwip cans in highsec... oh, he didn't take the bait, BAWWWWWWWWW. Also, stealing in and of itself may not flag the thief for the entire corp, but if you shoot him, the thief is instantly flagged if he chooses to shoot you back. Therefore, keep attack drones in your Covetor or Hulk or whatever, and have your corp mates prepared to jump in. Hit him with your drones (or even just one crappy drone), recall the drone, and watch the fun. 'Course the guy may come back in a Raven or whatever, but them's the brakes. Your bitterness is almost as bad as your spelling.
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Asestorian, it is not griefing? Then what is griefing supposed to be? Well, it depends if you're referring to griefing as an offence in that it breaks the EULA (this is the way I was referring to it) or just that it's annoying and causes grief. Yes, it does cause grief, but it's also a completely valid form of gameplay. If it's lame or not really doesn't come into it, whether the ebil wikkle piwate is "baww"ing or not. --- MOZO
wierchas noobhunter Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:48:00 - [16] Originally by: Arvald to quote tarminic "in a game where piracy, stealing, backstabbing and killing are commonplace can you really call what just happened to you greifing?" more or less word!
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Asestorian, it is not griefing? Then what is griefing supposed to be? Theoretically, in EVE, there is no such thing as griefing, unless you are using a exploited game mechanic to hamper someone in some way. Personally, I wish they would reconsider that, but there it is. The people who harass noob jet can miners are just jerks. They likely have no real life self esteem, and need to **** of other people in order to feel good about themself. _________________________________
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:49:00 - [18] Arrrrggh, my head hurts. Please define griefing as a yes or no answer, and not fuzzy. Because as it is now, you are telling me that there is no griefing in Eve? I mean I am allowed to do anythhing like being some kind of total ******** and I am allowed to get away with it, in Eve? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Arvald Caldari Devilish Intentinos	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:50:00 - [19] Edited by: Arvald on 14/01/2008 21:50:59 no its not greifing it is cleaning up spacetrash ^_^ --------------------------- Originally by: Brea Lafail Care to explain this jargon for those of us who have to call tech support to plug in a toaster?
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:51:00 - [20] Originally by: sanctimoniousness Your bitterness is almost as bad as your spelling. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you ignored the fact that I changed my spelling intentionally to facilitate your hidey-alt's snide comment. Also, I'm not particularly bitter about can-flippers, I just think it's an incredibly lame activity. Almost anything else would be less of a waste of time.
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Arrrrggh, my head hurts. Please define griefing as a yes or no answer, and not fuzzy. Because as it is now, you are telling me that there is no griefing in Eve? I mean I am allowed to do anythhing like being some kind of total ******** and I am allowed to get away with it, in Eve? As long as your not using a deemed exploit... then yes. This is correct. Jenny, come on, your an old school character. You know these things. _________________________________
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:53:00 - [22] Turin... this is jenny's 3rd owner Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Zephyr Rengate Racketeers Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:55:00 - [23] Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 14/01/2008 21:56:04 Here at RAK we excel at griefing I support anyone using the tactic
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:57:00 - [24] Wow Turin. Thank you for the explanation. This game rocks. I am going to love this game so much that maybe I might be the most hatred pirate killer in Eve. Being a total ** towards pirates, that'll be ****** awesome. Cool one, Turin. Eve rocks. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:02:00 - [25] If only can flipping gave a 5 days long killright to the miner, there wouldn't be any problem with it, and maybe a bit more of real pvp in high sec. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:05:00 - [26] Originally by: RigelKentaurus If only can flipping gave a 5 days long killright to the miner, there wouldn't be any problem with it, and maybe a bit more of real pvp in high sec. Why kill someone who's just cleaning the belts of trash thrown out? Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Zephyr Rengate Racketeers Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: RigelKentaurus If only can flipping gave a 5 days long killright to the miner, there wouldn't be any problem with it, and maybe a bit more of real pvp in high sec. Why kill someone who's just cleaning the belts of trash thrown out? Yer, its not as if the miner likes the ore that much since he chucks it out.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Arrrrggh, my head hurts. Please define griefing as a yes or no answer, and not fuzzy. Because as it is now, you are telling me that there is no griefing in Eve? PRECISELY. Technically, there is no griefing in EVE, barring exploits of game mechanics. Practically, the ONLY way to grief somebody by NOT exploiting game mechanics is by exploiting THOSE people's LACK OF KNOWLEDGE in game mechanics. Since everybody is assumed to have to learn from its own mistakes, and making mistakes are therefore desirable even from the onset of a character's life, the timespan where people are ASSUMED to HAVE to be protected from "griefing-like tactics" is only for a short time during their character's life. As such, the one and only "punishable" (true) griefing in EVE is baiting n00bs in newbie starter systems, since there's (almost) no way for them to have anything of value on them, and they aren't quite "EVE ready". Everything else ? NOT GRIEFING ! Short of that small exception, there is no griefing in EVE. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Wow Turin. Thank you for the explanation. This game rocks. I am going to love this game so much that maybe I might be the most hatred pirate killer in Eve. Being a total ** towards pirates, that'll be ****** awesome. Cool one, Turin. Eve rocks. I heard placing a can named free loot in front of a newbie station and popping anyone that grabs the stuff is a pretty cool way to start as being the most hated. Random fact of the day: If you quote Jenny's post here her asteriks really are asteriks. Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:36:00 - [30] and the most recently banned Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:42:00 - [31] Originally by: Joana Darklight Ive tried to engage someone who has stolen from a corp mate only secons after and if something isnt stolen while in gang with my corp mate I get a warning and cant shoot, and im not in a noob corp. if its just stealing and the person wants the ore thats fair but just taking and blowing it up hoping for a fight is griefing. Not really: Griefing is specifically: harassing a player for no reasonable in-game purpose with the intent to drive him to quit. Trying to provoke a fight is a perfectly reasonable purpose. If he does the same thing to you specifically for a week, then you can consider a harassment petition. If he's just trying to get you mad enough to fight, then it seems like he's doing a very good job. Your options are: (1) Write off the occasional can of ore (2) Defend your ore (any number of clever tactics can be employed here) (3) Make a deal with the "griefer" (4) Move to another system CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny and the most recently banned I don't know what your talking about cough cough Remember there is no such thing as griefing cough Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:51:00 - [33] I have just learnt a new trick today. If I see a pirate smart-bombing in high sec, could I cloak and go next to the person and get bombed so Concord will spawn on them and I can take stuffs away? This is not griefing right? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Xavier Iblis	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:53:00 - [34] Considering you'll be uncloaked long before you get in Smartbomb range in most circumstances, nope. Not griefing.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I have just learnt a new trick today. If I see a pirate smart-bombing in high sec, could I cloak and go next to the person and get bombed so Concord will spawn on them and I can take stuffs away? This is not griefing right? Nope. Clever tactics. And exactly why most people don't use smartbombs in hi-sec. (Certain reprobates would warp in with covops and sneak up to mission runners, take a smartbomb hit on purpose, and then swipe the loot after Concordokken. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:54:00 - [36] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I have just learnt a new trick today. If I see a pirate smart-bombing in high sec, could I cloak and go next to the person and get bombed so Concord will spawn on them and I can take stuffs away? This is not griefing right? I wouldn't call it griefing. There's a warning that pops up when you use smartbombs in highsec IIRC. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I have just learnt a new trick today. If I see a pirate smart-bombing in high sec, could I cloak and go next to the person and get bombed so Concord will spawn on them and I can take stuffs away? This is not griefing right? You craaaack me up Pirate in highsec, smartbombing, without CONCORD already coming after him ? Well, just say "player using smartbombs in highsec space", and that's it. Yes, you can do that. Just get close enough so he accidentally clips you, gets CONCORDed, and you grab his loot. Perfectly legitimate way of doing it Heck, if he's doing that while in a mission, even funnier. That's why they say "don't use smartbombs in highsec". 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I have just learnt a new trick today. If I see a pirate smart-bombing in high sec, could I cloak and go next to the person and get bombed so Concord will spawn on them and I can take stuffs away? This is not griefing right? BTW, one thing you need to get your head around is that in EvE it is not forbidden to do things because someone else doesn't like them. Scamming, ganking, spying, trickery, treachery, theft and just plain old lying are all perfectly "game legal". Players can and will do these things all the time. Some don't of course, and therefore trust in EvE is an extremely rare (and valuable) commodity. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:00:00 - [39] How about this tactic that I learnt from PVP skool? Jump at gate then I see many not friendly pirates and I yank my modem out from the socket. Is that griefing or still acceptable? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire How about this tactic that I learnt from PVP skool? Jump at gate then I see many not friendly pirates and I yank my modem out from the socket. Is that griefing or still acceptable? No, that's just ******** (stop trolling ffs). --- MOZO
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:03:00 - [41] Originally by: Akita T there is no griefing in EVE.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:05:00 - [42] Huh, Asestorian? I am just asking. It is quite hard to know what you can do and can't do in this game without ***** people out. As far as I can see it, there is no griefing but I want to clarify. I don't mind being the most hatred pirate killer in Eve but I don't want to be a total ***** because nobody agrees with my tactics. I want to be unfriendly but in a nice way. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire How about this tactic that I learnt from PVP skool? Jump at gate then I see many not friendly pirates and I yank my modem out from the socket. Is that griefing or still acceptable? It's not griefing, it's just about as lame as taking your ball home because the other team scored a goal. I dunno, be a quitter if you like. Which PvP school taught you that? Not Agony, I hope. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:09:00 - [44] Oh I can't tell but it is a last hope PVP skool and it is not Agony. I did go to Agony too. Anyway, I learnt some tactics when I just had Jenny but I went to the skool with my newb character. They had good lessons thought. It is all about survival and winning. It is all about winner gets the prize and losers go back and sulk about it. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:09:00 - [45] Jenny that was the most obvious troll I've seen for ages. If you want to be that pathetic you can just quit the game normally and achieve the same effect. --- MOZO
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:11:00 - [46] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/01/2008 23:13:02 But it is allowed isn't it Asestorian? I mean when it is 1v10, what can you do? Running back to gate would probably have you killed. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:14:00 - [47] Ahh jenny keeps going... Playing the game is not griefing. There is no abuse of any mechanic here, just a newbie whining about not being able to fight back against a more powerful opponent. Join a real corporation if you can't handle it alone. Make some friends. Stop whining. You carebears make the rest of us carebears look bad. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:16:00 - [48] Originally by: Battleclash Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Wow Turin. Thank you for the explanation. This game rocks. I am going to love this game so much that maybe I might be the most hatred pirate killer in Eve. Being a total ** towards pirates, that'll be ****** awesome. Cool one, Turin. Eve rocks. I heard placing a can named free loot in front of a newbie station and popping anyone that grabs the stuff is a pretty cool way to start as being the most hated. Random fact of the day: If you quote Jenny's post here her asteriks really are asteriks. Yeh! i noticed that aswell. lol _________________________________________________
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.01.14 23:17:00 - [49] THERE IS NO GRIEFING IN EVE. All things you can do within gamemechanics, without using an announced exploit are absolutely OK to do. So if I flip your can and destroy it afterwards, thats lame, but no griefing. CCP has allways said so, as it was never ment to use JetCans for mining. So if you use JetCans for mining, it's your own fault, when it gets stolen, flipped, destroyed whatever. Go along with it. . Work in progress: EvE FlashMAP
Techn0Viking	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/01/2008 23:13:02 But it is allowed isn't it Asestorian? I mean when it is 1v10, what can you do? Running back to gate would probably have you killed. You know what also isn't allowed? Character transfers or sales outside of the CCP-sanctioned methods listed in the Character and Timecode Bazaar, and sharing or giving away characters to anyone else, as explained in Section 2(A) of the Eula. Since I'm pretty much 100% sure you're not the original owner of the Jenny Spitfire character, I'll be petitioning you for 'acquiring a character' by illegal means, quoting the numerous posts you've made referencing you recently obtaining the Jenny Spitfire character. I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted, as you'll probably find yourself unable to use it sometime in the near future. P.S. - reporting you for buying characters is not griefing either. Write that one down for future reference, n00bcakes.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:22:00 - [51] You are so mean. I do own my character legally. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:25:00 - [52] Translation: a) it's the "original" Jenny, but she's been succesfully trolling the forums for a good deal of time PRETENDING she's a n00bcake or b) all character transfers were done via the 20$ fee 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:29:00 - [53] Originally by: Malcanis Not Agony, I hope. I can confirm Agony pvp classes do not teach any such things. (And Jenny is a troll. Stop feeding her.)
Renata Uldseth Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:33:00 - [54] I tried petitioning another player for "can baiting" in a starter system, Ammold. This is stated at http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336 as griefing. Quote: An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated. . I was told it was part of normal game play. So go figure, CCP won't even enforce what THEY say is griefing.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Oh I can't tell but it is a last hope PVP skool and it is not Agony. I did go to Agony too. Anyway, I learnt some tactics when I just had Jenny but I went to the skool with my newb character. They had good lessons thought. It is all about survival and winning. It is all about winner gets the prize and losers go back and sulk about it. Well aren't you just the cutest thing! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 00:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Malcanis Not Agony, I hope. I can confirm Agony pvp classes do not teach any such things. (And Jenny is a troll. Stop feeding her.) You don't "get" English humour, do you? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.15 01:26:00 - [57] Yeah, it's funny how everyone jumps on the bandwagon with: "EVE IS HARDCORE. ANYTHING NOT EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN BY CCP IS ALLOWED, EVEN IF IT SEEMS LAME AND CHEAP AS F*. THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS GRIEFING; BUMPING WITH AN ALT, GANKING PEOPLE WITH YOUR FOUR ACCOUNTS AND CYNO ALT ON YOUR FIVE CPUs, LYING, STEALING, IT's ALL GOOD." Five seconds later: "OMG LOGOFFSKI?! LOOK F* YOU, THAT'S JUST CHEAP AND LAME. JUST QUIT NAO PL0X." Double-standards, can I has them?
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.15 02:17:00 - [58] Once, a guy in a starter corp flipped my jetcan. Before he could warp, I blew him away with Hobgoblin II's and went about my business. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Ikthorn Balhar Veto.	Posted - 2008.01.15 02:44:00 - [59] Originally by: Akita T Translation: a) it's the "original" Jenny, but she's been succesfully trolling the forums for a good deal of time PRETENDING she's a n00bcake Very doubtful, as I was in a corp with the original Jenny, and their 'styles' of posting and talking are different enough that pretty much negate the possibility of this being the case; Originally by: Akita T or b) all character transfers were done via the 20$ fee Which is also doubtful, as this incarnation of Jenny mentioned it obtained the character late last year, which means the character transfer or sale would require a post in the forums, as per these rules. I haven't found any post mentioning the sale or transfer of the Jenny Spitfire character, so if it did occur, it broke the EULA.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.15 02:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Malcanis (2) Defend your ore (any number of clever tactics can be employed here) This Originally by: Arthur Frayn Once, a guy in a starter corp flipped my jetcan. Before he could warp, I blew him away with Hobgoblin II's and went about my business. And this, Ore thieves are such good fun and 98% of the whine like girls when you turn the tables and all you need to say is "you wanted to pvp all I did was give you what you wanted why are angry?" ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Docteur Xentav Minmatar Varietas Acquisition	Posted - 2008.01.15 03:10:00 - [61] Its not griefing Jenny IS trolling
Belce Caldari ADAMA Corps Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.15 05:39:00 - [62] High sec ore thieves are basically cowards, if they really wanted to PvP they wouldn't be in high sec flippin cans for a livin. Truth is Truth
Inchantra Lei	Posted - 2008.01.15 06:23:00 - [63] fleet with corp members. Have a hauler present. Have a cpl people loaded with nothing but weapons. Have your best miner(s) doing the mining. Can flippers will go look for easier prey. Baring that, fight back or roll over and let it slide. Hint: Drones (HobbGobbs ftw!)
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.15 06:27:00 - [64] If you have a second account or a bored corp mate then have a hauler sit next to the jet can and scoop it as its mined. Boring yes but then again this is mining. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Maximada Minmatar eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.01.15 07:15:00 - [65] not griefing
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.15 07:50:00 - [66] Edited by: Inertial on 15/01/2008 07:51:54 Can flipping is actually fun. Because it is actually possible to find targets, unlike in low-sec (targets a 6 day old character is able to kill that is). Personally I flip the cans, see if I get lucky, if not I call in a hauler who hauls the stuff into station, where a miner alt refines it and sells it. This is my prefered way of mining. If there is no hauler, I think shooting the can is a good way to provoke a fight instead. The best thing is that if you are can flipping a corporation mining op, they are likely to call their big guns in. In my incursus I have had: A megathron, two brutixes, drake, thorax, vexor, a destroyer and a incursus jump in on me. Besides that, for a new pirate character can flipping is sadly the only way to get a somewhat stable profit, before you are able to get really into low-sec and null-sec. EDIT: If someone is willing to donate 25 million to each of the three members of the Blood Reavers, we won't can flip again :P. Send me a eve-mail, and I will provide you with the details.
Ademaro Imre Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.15 08:03:00 - [67] When someone steals the ore, they own it and are flagged. However, if they steal it, eject it it, destroy the can and dock really fast - that would be denying the victim the game mechanics that allow him to strike back. It would be as terrible as a corp who gets war dec'd and joins an alliance and then leaves the alliance. The aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed and clamorous to be saved by menacing it with imaginary hobgoblins. The urge to save humanity is a false front for the urge to rule it.
DroneBay Diva Rubra Libertas Militia Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.15 08:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Akita T there is no griefing in EVE. Wroooong!! Eve IS griefing _____________________________________________________________________________ Proud to be a Nanofag
Miniturret Amarr Rum Runners Inc	Posted - 2008.01.15 08:34:00 - [69] Can Flipping as I see it and most everyone else here, providing it is not done at the newbie stations with titles such as Free Stuff, is perfectly allowed game mechanic. I've had plenty of cans flipped because I didn't have a hauler ready when the ore was. I check and see what the can flipper is flying, go back park the barge and get something more suitable for PvP. I'll warp in and if the flipper is still there i'll engage in PvP. whoever comes out on top obiviously will get to choice what to do with the ore. If I lose i'll write it off, and talk to the person in local and tell em good fight or that was fun, or any variant there of. Now if the can flipper were to flip it and than shot it and warp away. This takes time to do. Precious time that you could be locking him down and scramming him if you were smart enough to bring someone fitted for pvp to protect your mining operation. There are ways to counter it. a) IF you must jet can mine, keep a hauler near by to pick it up and leave 1 unit of ore a BM or something of little to no value in the can. If a flipper comes along, write off whatever is the in the can and go back out and continue to mine with the hauler sitting on top of can to take it. b) IF you must jet can mine, bring a RL friend along who you can bribe with booze to sit in a belt and stare at your fat barge and wait for someone to come along. Or pay someone a good chunck of your profits to sit there and stare at you. c) get into a barge fill the hold, warp to station, unload, go back mine till hold is full, rinse and repeat. <-- look no way for them to take your ore that you mined GASP. There are ways to stop and deter them. You just have to take the initiative to try and stop them. I'm a carebear and I approve this message. So go ahead and flip my cans I'm bored to tears staring at those rocks anyways ------ Compiled List of Shops, Manufacturers, and Services
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.15 09:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Miniturret I'm a carebear and I approve this message. So go ahead and flip my cans I'm bored to tears staring at those rocks anyways Which system do you normally mine in, provide which belt as well please
Miniturret Amarr Rum Runners Inc	Posted - 2008.01.15 09:58:00 - [71] Edited by: Miniturret on 15/01/2008 09:59:17 depends on the night and which area has the least amount of miners (IE i do hunt for the better roids in high sec) which means i don't have any one "sweet spot" but keep your eye on domain region -=edit=- OR if you happen to see me online feel free to mail me and I'll tell you where I am that particular night so you can come play. ------ Compiled List of Shops, Manufacturers, and Services
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.15 10:16:00 - [72] You dont jetcan mine in a hulk. You dont mine without a hulk.
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.15 10:26:00 - [73] Originally by: Miniturret Edited by: Miniturret on 15/01/2008 09:59:17 depends on the night and which area has the least amount of miners (IE i do hunt for the better roids in high sec) which means i don't have any one "sweet spot" but keep your eye on domain region -=edit=- OR if you happen to see me online feel free to mail me and I'll tell you where I am that particular night so you can come play. I'll be can flippin' your way then, at some point :)
Morticia Sable	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:02:00 - [74] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Wow Turin. Thank you for the explanation. This game rocks. I am going to love this game so much that maybe I might be the most hatred pirate killer in Eve. Being a total ** towards pirates, that'll be ****** awesome. Cool one, Turin. Eve rocks. Is this the 3rd Jenny owner or the 4th by now? If the origional could hear you now she would die of embarrasment. For your information, the Jenny us old-timers know and love was a Bloodthirsty killing machine. Oh and good luck convincing any older anti-pirates that your intentions are honourable. They are sure to remeber your reputation.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Yeah, it's funny how everyone jumps on the bandwagon with: "EVE IS HARDCORE. ANYTHING NOT EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN BY CCP IS ALLOWED, EVEN IF IT SEEMS LAME AND CHEAP AS F*. THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS GRIEFING; BUMPING WITH AN ALT, GANKING PEOPLE WITH YOUR FOUR ACCOUNTS AND CYNO ALT ON YOUR FIVE CPUs, LYING, STEALING, IT's ALL GOOD." Five seconds later: "OMG LOGOFFSKI?! LOOK F* YOU, THAT'S JUST CHEAP AND LAME. JUST QUIT NAO PL0X." Double-standards, can I has them? You might be better off asking for some logic. You're comparing in-game methods with quitting the game because you're losing. If you can't see the difference then I suppose EvE will continue to make you angry, and you'll continue to be a quitter. Enjoy, I suppose. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:16:00 - [76] Originally by: Belce High sec ore thieves are basically cowards, if they really wanted to PvP they wouldn't be in high sec flippin cans for a livin. Cowards? Who's the coward - the one who goes looking for PvP or the one who refuses to even try to fight? Mining barges drop pretty good loot - even now, T2 strips are quite valuable, so there's a legitimate reason to want to attack them. Or are you talking about equivalent forces? Have Intrepid changed their PvP policy to only bring forth equivalent fleets? No more carriers being dropped on cruiser gangs? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:24:00 - [77] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 15/01/2008 11:24:42 Baiting Hulks is actually very profitable, they either pay nice ransoms (Hulk + T2 stips + T2 expanders + cargo rigs = 130 mil ransom) or they drop nice loot. And sometimes you are just REALLY lucky and his alt attacks you in his mission Raven, after his timer ran out... high security space is filled with people who play Mining-Online: the single player version. In other words, they're not up to speed with what the game actually is, what the dangers are, game mechanics and other rather important stuff. Everywhere else in EVE you're always at risk, risk to lose your ship, your home, your assets and whatnot but THESE people just get fat&rich oblivious to any problems or danger. As such most of them fly expensively fitted ships and are easily lured into making mistakes.
Voodoo Dog Gallente Pilots of the Apocolypse	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:27:00 - [78] Edited by: Voodoo Dog on 15/01/2008 11:27:53 Its not only greifing, its petulant childish greifing but hey, this is EVE, where every play style is possible learn from it and move on or gimme your stuff *I refuse to have a sig before I have a face*
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:28:00 - [79] if you store ore that you've mined in a can that has no lock ( jettisoned can vs. a secure anchorable can ) then that is akin to storing your wallet outside your house on the front porch. In both cases, you have no valid reason to complain if your stuff gets stolen. Secure it, or get some guns to protect it, or accept that you're going to take losses. it's your choice. Eve gives you choices. that's why we love Eve. :) -- No love for the Matari
Tiger313 313th Squadron	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:31:00 - [80] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Yer, its not as if the miner likes the ore that much since he chucks it out. I like doing a bit of mining and I dislike when someone's nicking my ore, but this remark made me laugh.
Syril Mert Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:38:00 - [81] A long time ago when I was a poor empire miner I used this tactic to scare off those evil group miners that would travel from system to system mining all the Kernite. After a while some of them would skip "my" system and I got a chance to mine some kern for myself. It's not griefing. It's a fight for resources.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:39:00 - [82] Edited by: Grey Area on 15/01/2008 11:45:19 Originally by: Turin Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Arrrrggh, my head hurts. Please define griefing as a yes or no answer, and not fuzzy. Because as it is now, you are telling me that there is no griefing in Eve? I mean I am allowed to do anythhing like being some kind of total ******** and I am allowed to get away with it, in Eve? As long as your not using a deemed exploit... then yes. This is correct. Saying it don't make it so. You can grief without using an exploit. If you're using an expolit, then that's, well, exploitation, which is a whole different kettle of fish. So, for example...I get peeved with someone for some imagined reason, and I pod him. I know where his clone is set to, and I have some friends outside the station who pod him again. And again. And again. There's no exploit being used (assuming his clone is in less than 0.5 of course)...but it IS griefing. However...in the op's actual case given, I don't think it IS griefing, simply because, the use of a secure can would prevent it. Yes, it's faster and more efficient to use a jetcan due to the larger size...but it's more risky. So the risky way is the more profitable way, and the safer way takes more time...which is exactly as it should be. And i have to say, it's only a version of what I used to do to defend myself against loot thieves on missions...I'd blow up my own cans. When a loot thief took objection to this and told me "OMG! You could be blowing up Arbalest Launchers!" (this being when they were still worth something) I pointed out to him that at this point, since he was in the fast ship and I was in the slow BS...I was most likely blowing up HIS Arbalest Launchers. I still laugh remembering how mad he got... --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:49:00 - [83] I'll play devil's advocate here, but I personaly don't think its griefing as there are ways to combat this, its just that most people in this game just like in the real world would like 'someone' (usually government, but anyone other then them will do) to solve the problem for them. CCP has given you all the tools you need to combat every type of tactic, even low life tactics of ore thieves. First however, I have double and tripled checked this to be sure. If someone steals from your corp not only can any member of your corp attack him at will for 15 minutes, but also any member of your alliance. Avoiding Ore Thieves in 5 Steps 1. Never Mine Alone - I would say this is not just a golden rule of mining but a golden rule of good Eve play. The risks of doing anything alone are 1000% higher in Eve and the chances of getting ore theft are quite good if your jet can mining alone. You should have a friend or second account in a hauler clearing the cans constantly. 2. Deterant Fleet & Friends - If your going to mine in high sec, find out where your corp and alliance mates are that are running missions and mine near them. This way you can call on their help when something happens. This really goes hand and hand with rule 1. 3. Remote Locations & Local - U can avoid a lot of problems by proper system selection, I can't tell you how many noobs I've seen mining in systems like Cistavuart complaining about ore theft. Thats like going to a bad neighbhood ATM at night in a limo, your going to stand out like a sore thumb. Ore thieves prefer target rich enviroments so find remote systems to mine and keep a close eye on local, if someone with a suspicious corp affiliation or poor sec rating comes in get your hauler and pick up the ore. 4. Favorite Spots - Ore thefts are the lowest form of PvPer in Eve, well below pirates and extortion corps. There is not much money in it and anyone doing such a tactic will not stand up in a fight, so reverse the rolls if you have a favorite spot that is being bothered by a ore thief. Setup a Anti Ore thief operation with some friends and blow these guys up a few times. After that they'll assume that anytime your mining its a trap and will avoid you. I have personaly done this on numerous occassions and it works like a charm, in as a whole, ore thieves are cowards and very easy to kill. Bait and Petition - Notice I didn't put a number on this one, I admit this is a very provacative option, but in a game filled with people who are in it just to screw with other people its nice to give them a bit of payback. I wouldn't call this an anti pirate tactic so much as a way to pay people back you might not be able to pay back through gameplay. Paying close attention to your own language and conduct, attempt to insight the ore thief into a verbal confrontation, provoking him to get him to curse and belittle you then copy the conversation and open a petition against him. You may or may not be suprised to know that the large majority of people who do lame stuff like ore theft are socially challenged individuals with no self control and a complete absence of any common sense or curtiousy. Its quite easy to get them to unload their filth and stupidity, use it like a weapon against them. Open a petition and include the conversation log, u can assume that they will get banned for a short period (track their log in/outs with the buddies address system) and see how long they suddenly are logged out. With a little luck its not their first offense and if the conversation is ugly enough they may get banned permenantly.
Ur235 Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:53:00 - [84] it does flag you to the entire corp, I was looting wrecks killed by a different corp, purposley trying to get myself flagged to them and they fell for it and I popped 3 of there ships
Demarcus Killjoy. G Thanks Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:54:00 - [85] If you were mining into a secure can you wouldn't have an issue, so no it isn't griefing you just didn't bother properly securing your assets and they got stolen. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.15 11:59:00 - [86] Originally by: Syril Mert A long time ago when I was a poor empire miner I used this tactic to scare off those evil group miners that would travel from system to system mining all the Kernite. After a while some of them would skip "my" system and I got a chance to mine some kern for myself. It's not griefing. It's a fight for resources. Good point. I think its interesting that as soon as someone does anything in the game, either by attacking, stealing or any other tactic they are immediatly dubbed low life pirate (I know I often do it myself) however it is often quite the opposite. People have the right to defend what they believe is there's (wether rightfully, imagined or anything else) and as such its quite possible that a pirate is blowing up your haulers because he's a competator or was hired by a competator, as well as stealing from you or whatever else the case may be. Eve is a far broader game then most people give it credit for, I know I sometimes fall for the same trap, thanks for pointing that out Syril.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.15 12:04:00 - [87] Originally by: Voodoo Dog Its not only greifing, its petulant childish greifing but hey, this is EVE, where every play style is possible learn from it and move on or gimme your stuff I don't qft much, don't fancy the concept nor the practice particularly, but you post is worth an exception. So: QFT!
Njara Naoltaos	Posted - 2008.01.15 12:05:00 - [88] Skill for a Hulk, skill drones and for a scrambler and then you just have fun when somebody tries to flip your can. Mining would be so boring without that....
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.15 12:24:00 - [89] I see full stops at the end of questions as griefing
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.15 12:41:00 - [90] Originally by: Malcanis You might be better off asking for some logic. You're comparing in-game methods with quitting the game because you're losing. If you can't see the difference then I suppose EvE will continue to make you angry, and you'll continue to be a quitter. Enjoy, I suppose. I'm well aware of the logic behind condemning logoffski and login traps, Malcanis. I certainly understand why people consider it to be lame. In fact, I myself consider those two tactics to be some of the lamest things an EVE player could possibly do. However, they are allowed by CCP, even if only because it would be impossible to punish them reliably. My problem is that you (and a fair number of other people) can't seem to grasp the logic behind why I consider other activities allowed by CCP to be incredibly lame. The response to these statements is always "It's allowed, would you like some whine with your cheese?" or some variation thereof. Just because it's allowed, and just because you don't have to log out to do it, doesn't mean some people don't consider it just as lame as logoffski and login traps; can-flipping and bumping are two personal examples. I consider them both to be "metagaming", especially bumping.
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.15 12:50:00 - [91] Edited by: Inertial on 15/01/2008 12:55:15 Originally by: Thornat Bait and Petition - Notice I didn't put a number on this one, I admit this is a very provacative option, but in a game filled with people who are in it just to screw with other people its nice to give them a bit of payback. I wouldn't call this an anti pirate tactic so much as a way to pay people back you might not be able to pay back through gameplay. Paying close attention to your own language and conduct, attempt to insight the ore thief into a verbal confrontation, provoking him to get him to curse and belittle you then copy the conversation and open a petition against him. You may or may not be suprised to know that the large majority of people who do lame stuff like ore theft are socially challenged individuals with no self control and a complete absence of any common sense or curtiousy. Its quite easy to get them to unload their filth and stupidity, use it like a weapon against them. Open a petition and include the conversation log, u can assume that they will get banned for a short period (track their log in/outs with the buddies address system) and see how long they suddenly are logged out. With a little luck its not their first offense and if the conversation is ugly enough they may get banned permenantly. The large majority of people who do lame stuff like condemning a whole group of players are socially challenged individuals with no brain and a complete absence of any common sense or curtiousy. Its quite easy to get them to unload their filth and stupidity, use it like a weapon against them. Nice job man, providing advice on how to get people banned using metagaming tactics. TBQFH IME Carebears smack more than pirates.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:08:00 - [92] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Originally by: Malcanis You might be better off asking for some logic. You're comparing in-game methods with quitting the game because you're losing. If you can't see the difference then I suppose EvE will continue to make you angry, and you'll continue to be a quitter. Enjoy, I suppose. I'm well aware of the logic behind condemning logoffski and login traps, Malcanis. I certainly understand why people consider it to be lame. In fact, I myself consider those two tactics to be some of the lamest things an EVE player could possibly do. However, they are allowed by CCP, even if only because it would be impossible to punish them reliably. My problem is that you (and a fair number of other people) can't seem to grasp the logic behind why I consider other activities allowed by CCP to be incredibly lame. The response to these statements is always "It's allowed, would you like some whine with your cheese?" or some variation thereof. Just because it's allowed, and just because you don't have to log out to do it, doesn't mean some people don't consider it just as lame as logoffski and login traps; can-flipping and bumping are two personal examples. I consider them both to be "metagaming", especially bumping. I just explained why you were wrong. Doing mean stuff in game is conceptually different from doing out of game "tactics like logoffski. There's also all the difference in the world between "this tactic is explicitly allowed" and "we really think it's exploiting, but it's impossible to enforce so we just have to tolerate it". (It's also worthwhile remembering that MINERS were the ones asking for can-theft aggro, not "griefers". In fact quite a few of the so-called griefers posted right here on the forum with warnings of this specific consequence.) The more deus ex machina exceptions to the basically sand-box nature of the game are requested, the more rules and exceptions there are that have to be learned, with a consquent increase in the possibilities for "griefers" to use. Another example: OMG THIS GRIEFER POPPED MY MISSION WRECKS NOW I CANT FINISH MY MILLIONTH LEVEL 4 CCP FIX THIS! Ok, so now wrecks are concord-protected. Result: "griefers" sneak in to a mission, surreptitiously pop one rat and wait for the careless missioner to loot that wreck or better yet destroy it. The fundamental problem is the misconception that you and what you think is yours are entitled to safety without working from it. The logical end result of this line of thought was seen when whiners got CONCORD buffed. Result: almost impossible to gank hi-sec miners. Miners rejoice! Yeah, for about 2 days. Then miners cried as invulnerable macrominers infested every worthwhile belt and stripped them. And what little ore remained was worth far less due to macro-minerals flooding the market. Mining incomes plummeted. Every time people cry for CCP to hold their hand and play the game for them, it backfires. It makes the game worse for everyone. In summary: Can-flipping is only "griefing" if you won't do anything about it. There are many legitimate in-game counters available to the miner to combat can-flipping. Fitting a 24Km scram to his Hulk is just one. There are no-in-game counters available to counteract the lame cheat who quits his way out of a fight. It's an out of game tactic, and the only counters are out of game ones. Do you think that a CTRL-Qer should have the right to complain if he can't re-connect because the nasty piwats DDOSed his connection? If disconnecting is a valid game tactic, then surely keeping someone from re-connecting is a valid tactic too. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:22:00 - [93] So is bumping an in-game mechanic but something that is out of intended usage? Feels a bit lame but acceptable isn't it? Logging is an out of game mechanic but something that is within the intended usage so it is a bit lame but not acceptable. Is that what you are saying? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:32:00 - [94] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire So is bumping an in-game mechanic but something that is out of intended usage? Feels a bit lame but acceptable isn't it? Logging is an out of game mechanic but something that is within the intended usage so it is a bit lame but not acceptable. Is that what you are saying? I don't recall saying either of those things. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:46:00 - [95] Originally by: Malcanis I just explained why you were wrong. Correction: You just explained why you think I'm wrong. And, judging by this first sentence, you didn't put much effort into reading my latest post, but I'll bite anyway. Quote: Doing mean stuff in game is conceptually different from doing out of game "tactics like logoffski. Correct, but even in-game, there are conceptual differences between various different activities. To you, the only difference that seems to matter (for the purpose of this discussion) is whether someone has to log off to accomplish something. To me, there are other factors to be considered, even if you're logged in the entire time. Quote: There's also all the difference in the world between "this tactic is explicitly allowed" and "we really think it's exploiting, but it's impossible to enforce so we just have to tolerate it". Spiritual difference? Yes. Practical difference? None. Quote: (It's also worthwhile remembering that MINERS were the ones asking for can-theft aggro, not "griefers". In fact quite a few of the so-called griefers posted right here on the forum with warnings of this specific consequence.) Yeah, I'm rather amused by this myself. Please don't make the mistake of assuming that I get really upset and **ed off by activities such as can-flipping or bumping. I don't; I accept them with perfect equanimity as an immovable part of the game. This does not, however, mean that I don't consider them lame. Approaching a newbie miner with your Velator, taking his ore, flipping it into your own can, then sitting there waiting to see if he gets angry and shoots at you, so that you can come back and decimate him in your Gankathron (or whatever), is lame almost beyond belief... in my opinion. If you can't see why I think it's lame, then we will most likely never agree on anything. Quote: Can-flipping is only "griefing" if you won't do anything about it. There's a bit of misunderstanding here, I think. Even though I consider can-flipping to be a favorite activity of people who like being tools, I don't consider it griefing... I just consider it astoundingly lame. The griefing part I was talking about at the beginning of this thread is the pirate throwing a temper-tantrum and shooting the ore before he leaves. To me, that's just about as petty and childish as you can get. Quote:** There are no-in-game counters available to counteract the lame cheat who quits his way out of a fight. This is basically untrue. Logoffski does not zip you to a safe spot and immediately log you out. As far as I'm aware (I've never used logoffski before, nor ever will, and I have never pursued someone who used it), it is still possible to probe such people out before they despawn, or WAIT them out... because when they log back on, they will come right back where they were when they logged out. So yes, there are in-game counters. Aggro their drones if possible, probe them out if possible, or, as a last resort, simply wait for them to log on again and autowarp back to where they were when they logged.
MadDoc Brown	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:53:00 - [96] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire My advice is... Think of victims as food. Play with them, smile at them, feed on them. You will need to satisfy the hunger. It is hard the first few times but after your 5th kill, it is just another target. HTH. YARRRR!! EDIT: Felt bad when I took my Vagabond BPO. Wanted to give it back but... miiiiiiiii preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecious... Linkage Excellent advice
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 14:39:00 - [97] Hasn't shooting drones to prolong aggro been deemed an exploit? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.15 14:51:00 - [98] Originally by: Malcanis Hasn't shooting drones to prolong aggro been deemed an exploit? I haven't seen it in any of the announcements (now or for the last X months), but I hope it is eventually.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.15 14:54:00 - [99] Quote: "The large majority of people who do lame stuff like condemning a whole group of players are socially challenged individuals with no brain and a complete absence of any common sense or curtiousy. Its quite easy to get them to unload their filth and stupidity, use it like a weapon against them." Nice job man, providing advice on how to get people banned using metagaming tactics. TBQFH IME Carebears smack more than pirates. I agree its a dirty way to get even with someone, especially considering that the method does involve using out of game tactics, but then again try to follow the logic if you will that gaming is a form of entertainment and when it becomes entertainment to wreck someone elses entertainment, even though I personaly do not consider it griefing, I do consider it a violation of my personal space outside of the game. Its an encrouchment on my entertainment and after all my gaming time is precious and to have it be spoiled by someone who enjoys spoilings people's entertainment makes getting even using the same mentality justified to me. A person that is baited into a conflict does not have to curse me out and get himself banned, he can simply ignore me on and go about his business just like I don't have to let his theft ruin my entertainment. So to me, if he is doing something perfectly legal that ruins my entertainment (stealing my can) even though it affects me personaly outside of the game, then I can do the same. Me baiting him into a conflict, while I remain civil is perfectly legal by the rules of the game and CCP's rules, cursing me out in response is not. Hence I do not get him banned, but he gets himself banned by breaking the rules... He has a choice to his response to perfectly action in game, just as I have a choice in my response to perfectly legal (can theft) action. I could choose to curse him out for his actions, in which case he could have me banned.. why would that be any different?
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:27:00 - [100] It's very simple, if miners can't be arsed to to put in effort to secure their assets they lose them. Try the high-sec solo mentality in 0.0 and your'e washed away, you lose your ships, assets and home. Thing is, high sec isn't safe, it's only safeR. Besides, there's many miners who I simply can't or won't steal from, because they gave it a little bit of thought and I actually commend them on that. They put in effort, they get to reap the rewards. People who don't just cry about griefing.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:44:00 - [101] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Originally by: Malcanis Hasn't shooting drones to prolong aggro been deemed an exploit? I haven't seen it in any of the announcements (now or for the last X months), but I hope it is eventually. I could swear I saw a thread about it a few days ago. Anyway, the post above this says it (again): people who put a minimal amount of effort and thought are very difficult to steal from and bait. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Jasese The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:01:00 - [102] rofl, the new owner of jenny spitfire is such a carebear
sdfmmbmbm	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:08:00 - [103] It is definately griefing, such immaturity.
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:25:00 - [104] I skimmed through the last couple pages, so forgive me if this has been mentioned, but it looks like people were explaining ways to combat ore thieves that steal from jet cans. Here is why stealing ore from a jet can, even if only to try to provoke a fight, is not griefing: Jet cans are not mining tools. Never have been, never will be. Jet cans are a way to jettison objects from your cargohold that you no longer want. This is what they were designed for, this is what they are meant for. At some point, miners looked at the 27,000 m3 of space in a jet can and figured it would make for a more efficient way to store their ore so they can mine faster. So some miner decided to throw away perfectly good ore into a jet can. Yes, when you perform that action, you are leaving your ore out to the world saying "I don't want this, anyone can take it." That is what a jet can is. Why do I say this? (A) It's true and (B) originally, taking from a jet can (i.e. stealing) was not flagged as stealing. It did not flag the taker to the "owner" of the jet can, allowing the owner to fight back if he wanted. It didn't flag the same reason as Joe Blow picking up trash in a ditch is not considered stealing. It's trash; you threw it away in a jet can, for goodness sake. That's like throwing your ore out the window into a ditch. Miners whined enough and CCP added the flagging, allowing miners to fight back, if they wanted. Guess what? This made things worse for those complaining miners. Now people don't just steal from jet cans for the sake of taking the ore, they steal from jet cans to purposely provoke a fight. Why is this allowed? Because you miners asked for it. You whining, high-sec, carebear miners asked for jet can flagging, you got it, now you whine about pirates using the mechanic to fight with you. Why can I say all this, and why does it hold any weight? (A) I'm not a pirate. I don't pirate people in low sec, high sec, and I never have ore can flipped. (Okay, I tried it once when I first started and found it lame, too. :) (B) I started as a miner. I mined the first couple months of my Eve life. I know a little bit about high sec mining, up to the point of a Retriever. I've had my ore stolen, I know how it feels. Better yet, I took steps to protect myself. If you want to mine in high sec and you don't want lame pirates to flip your can, don't mine into a can. As others have said, you have many options: Giant Secure Cans, friend or alt in an indy that hauls for you, warping back and forth between station when your hold is full. If you choose to mine into a jet can, you are choosing to throw your ore away. Don't whine if someone decides to take it for little more purpose than provoking a fight or just destroying it. My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:26:00 - [105] Originally by: sdfmmbmbm It is definately griefing, such immaturity. And post with your main. Or at least a better named alt, like I do. My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Tanshi Daiko	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:33:00 - [106] Angel....dont forget they can`t anchor secure cans in the top two levels of highsec....so that isnt one of the "many options" where mining newbies are concerned.
Tanshi Daiko	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:44:00 - [107] Edited by: Tanshi Daiko on 15/01/2008 17:44:27 Bah, posted with my old trial character (its me above). edit bah, it didnt change. I thought i would add in some more detailed comments on the matter. I saw this taking place today, with people can flipping and then shooting the containers after the miner gave up and left. It's a strange mentality that people, often in ships of staggering value, choose to randomly take ore from rookies only to destroy it. I dont see it as against the EVE spirit, or as griefing, but i do see it as reflecting badly on those who do it. A thief, at least, benefits from the ore that is stolen, but to mug someone and then burn their valuables is very strange indeed. I steal ore, people in turn sometimes get the better of me and steal my ore, but its all good and understandable. I often send words of praise to those who outwit me on either side (with them as victim or with me as the one who loses out). However, what is going on is, at the least, vandalism and at the most mindless barbarianism. Is this the only challenge that their lethal ships are good for?
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.15 18:16:00 - [108] Yes, in those sec systems they have the benefits of no rats with the detriment of not being able to anchor cans. If you'd rather not have a friend haul, or warp back and forth from the station, you can make the choice to instead deal with the rats but be able to anchor cans. Originally by: Tanshi Daiko It's a strange mentality that people, often in ships of staggering value, choose to randomly take ore from rookies only to destroy it. As I mentioned, this is the consequence of the taking from the can flagging the person as a shootable thief. If the jet cans didn't do that, like miners asked them to, you wouldn't be flagged and these particular can flippers wouldn't exist. It's something the miners asked for when they asked for the ability to protect their precious trash. Originally by: Tanshi Daiko I dont see it as against the EVE spirit, or as griefing, but i do see it as reflecting badly on those who do it. A thief, at least, benefits from the ore that is stolen, but to mug someone and then burn their valuables is very strange indeed. I'd be hoping they'd at least be taking what their holds can carry, but at any rate, to deny your opponent resources is as good or almost as good as getting resources yourself. To get the resources you denied your opponent would be better in my opinion, of course, but if their holds can carry it, I can't see it as beneficial to the pirate to leave the ore around. Originally by: Tanshi Daiko However, what is going on is, at the least, vandalism and at the most mindless barbarianism. Is this the only challenge that their lethal ships are good for? Yes, we can all tell that this is done by "carebear pirates", those that want an easy kill without putting their precious ships at any kind of real risk. We all have our own opinions on what these kinds of people are, but as I pointed out, it's really the fault of the miners that like to throw away perfectly good ore. My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:08:00 - [109] Originally by: Tanshi Daiko Edited by: Tanshi Daiko on 15/01/2008 17:44:27 Bah, posted with my old trial character (its me above). edit bah, it didnt change. I thought i would add in some more detailed comments on the matter. I saw this taking place today, with people can flipping and then shooting the containers after the miner gave up and left. It's a strange mentality that people, often in ships of staggering value, choose to randomly take ore from rookies only to destroy it. I dont see it as against the EVE spirit, or as griefing, but i do see it as reflecting badly on those who do it. A thief, at least, benefits from the ore that is stolen, but to mug someone and then burn their valuables is very strange indeed. I steal ore, people in turn sometimes get the better of me and steal my ore, but its all good and understandable. I often send words of praise to those who outwit me on either side (with them as victim or with me as the one who loses out). However, what is going on is, at the least, vandalism and at the most mindless barbarianism. Is this the only challenge that their lethal ships are good for? For the nth time: mining barges can drop valuable loot. It's well worth shooting them. Look, EvE gives you the choice to be a bad guy. Bad guys do bad things. I personally don't steal ore, scam, etc. But without the option to do so, my choice is meaningless. I could be the evilest puppy-molester in the Western Hemisphere and it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't have the option to be bad in the game. Look at it this way: what's the biggest deficiency in PC games? Answer: Credible opponents. NPC villians are generally unconvincing, unchallenging and predictable. On the other hand, in EvE, you have literally thousands of people working as hard as they can to give you the evilest, sneakiest, meanest bad guys possible oppose. For free. They'll do evil things like steal your lunch money, tell lies to your mom, pretend to be your friend then tell your secrets to the girls and even set fire to your tree house! You have real villains to shoot at, oppose and eventually thwart. Or... Join. Never forget you have that choice too. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:08:00 - [110] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Yeah, it's funny how everyone jumps on the bandwagon with: "EVE IS HARDCORE. ANYTHING NOT EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN BY CCP IS ALLOWED, EVEN IF IT SEEMS LAME AND CHEAP AS F*. THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS GRIEFING; BUMPING WITH AN ALT, GANKING PEOPLE WITH YOUR FOUR ACCOUNTS AND CYNO ALT ON YOUR FIVE CPUs, LYING, STEALING, IT's ALL GOOD." Five seconds later: "OMG LOGOFFSKI?! LOOK F* YOU, THAT'S JUST CHEAP AND LAME. JUST QUIT NAO PL0X." Double-standards, can I has them? Looks like someones Alt cynoed in a whole bunch of CAPS on your post. Lame griefers
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:10:00 - [111] It's good to be bad.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Ministry of Funny Walks	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:21:00 - [112] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Turin... this is jenny's 3rd owner Isn't account selling/trading expressly forbidden in the EULA and such? This isn't the first time I've seen it mentioned that Jenny Spitfire is not played by the original account owner, nor is it the second or third, it is mentioned quite often. I mean isn't it a bit dangerous/foolish to be mentioning that some account is regularly sold or is there some running joke that I am not aware of?
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:47:00 - [113] Your friend was mining into a jetcan. You know why they call it a jetcan? Its used to jettison things you don't want overboard. Not the hostile pilot's fault they took your stuff. Try a secure container or a station next time .
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:28:00 - [114] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Turin... this is jenny's 3rd owner Isn't account selling/trading expressly forbidden in the EULA and such? This isn't the first time I've seen it mentioned that Jenny Spitfire is not played by the original account owner, nor is it the second or third, it is mentioned quite often. I mean isn't it a bit dangerous/foolish to be mentioning that some account is regularly sold or is there some running joke that I am not aware of? Yeah, there's this big joke about being able to buy and sell characters for ISK legally through these forums. Har har!
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:52:00 - [115] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 15/01/2008 20:53:56 LOL!!!!! I dont see what the big deal is. I lost a full jet can of ore once and I was pretty peeved off, but I did not cry about. The funny thing is that I was side tracked by my corp convo and that is when I got jacked. I had been keeping a close watch on my space when I video link competition started up. I was instantly taken off to watch many a hilarious video around the web. I finally came back to screen and some how I had lost close to 27,000 m3 of Dense veldspar and about two hours of mining. I new the guy was long gone and I typed in corp chat the the jokes on me. I was having fun and just happened to loose a can of DV. Lesson learned it is more profitable to haul for my corp then to mine by myself. Edited for spelling and grammer. _______________________________________________________________________ Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider "As me wallet grows so do me balls"*
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:04:00 - [116] oh wow, 117 (probably 120 by now) messages on noobcorp canflipping thread...that's awesome well, you're calling a "griefer" someone that "with normal and official game mechanic working as intended, flip a can of your friend and transfer the ore in his own (for then wasting asteroid ores, lol) since this is a LEGAL WAI GAME MECHANIC i don't really see how can this be identified as "griefing" same as piracy, different from logoffski and logontrap (wich are used on the edge of non legal mechanics, but is not to consider an exploit/broken game mechanic, but much like a non-polite tactics...and i rofl everytime i remember i'm talking of EVE-O ) and way different from insulting someone via EVE-O (internet griefing). from that, if some noobcorp try to flip your can, get in with a combat ship or a little fleet with remote shield transfer-remote reppers and try to gank him/tank him/kill him (i suppose you have enough time to fit a battle barge :D ) well, in that case, he lose, and you don't get annoyed while mining. MMO stands for massively multiplayer online ___________________________________________________________ For all your Jita Problems, click here
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.15 22:36:00 - [117] Originally by: FRIGGIN OP ...Anyways the guy that took the ore after deciding he wouldnt be attacked just shot the can destroying the ore... just shot the can - it's not about the theft, or about the pirate making money, it's about the guy trying to get a reaction then when he couldn't, just popping the ore. It's reaction baiting, which, is fine, but destroying the ore crosses over in to grief-territory. This is very similar to the old 'exploit' of dropping a can, naming it 'you', then warp-scrambling it to get a reaction? _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.16 10:18:00 - [118] Originally by: Pwett Originally by: FRIGGIN OP ...Anyways the guy that took the ore after deciding he wouldnt be attacked just shot the can destroying the ore... just shot the can - it's not about the theft, or about the pirate making money, it's about the guy trying to get a reaction then when he couldn't, just popping the ore. It's reaction baiting, which, is fine, but destroying the ore crosses over in to grief-territory. This is very similar to the old 'exploit' of dropping a can, naming it 'you', then warp-scrambling it to get a reaction? You almost got it right, destroying the can is just ANOTHER method of trying to get a reaction.
baltec1	Posted - 2008.01.16 11:14:00 - [119] I had someone pop a full can of jaspet in an attempt to get me to attack him in my barge. Needless to say I was shocked not only at the fact that the coward wanted to fight a none combat ship but the total stupidity of literaly burning millions of isk... Nowadays I have a hauler alt so I dont get this problem, but still, you gotta be deperate to do that kind of thing for an easy kill
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:05:00 - [120] Originally by: baltec1 I had someone pop a full can of jaspet in an attempt to get me to attack him in my barge. Needless to say I was shocked not only at the fact that the coward wanted to fight a none combat ship but the total stupidity of literaly burning millions of isk... Nowadays I have a hauler alt so I dont get this problem, but still, you gotta be deperate to do that kind of thing for an easy kill Well, he stole from you, couldn't get a reaction, couldn't carry it out himself, so instead of leaving it to you to keep all the ore, he destroyed it himself. Perfectly reasonable tactic. As I said, denying your opponent resources is almost as good, sometimes better, than getting resources yourself (though both would be preferable). Also, I really got to ask, was this high sec Gravimetric site? Or why didn't he just shoot you if you were mining Jaspet in low sec? My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:07:00 - [121] not griefing, He just took your stuff anf blew it up to deny you the ore.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:31:00 - [122] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Pwett Originally by: FRIGGIN OP ...Anyways the guy that took the ore after deciding he wouldnt be attacked just shot the can destroying the ore... just shot the can - it's not about the theft, or about the pirate making money, it's about the guy trying to get a reaction then when he couldn't, just popping the ore. It's reaction baiting, which, is fine, but destroying the ore crosses over in to grief-territory. This is very similar to the old 'exploit' of dropping a can, naming it 'you', then warp-scrambling it to get a reaction? You almost got it right, destroying the can is just ANOTHER method of trying to get a reaction. It can also be a preliminary to a "Give me x million ISK or you'll lose more cans like this" style negotiation. Extortion backed by credible threats is more lucrative than bluffing. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 12:34:00 - [123] It sux but atleast now u have the 'OPTION' to shoot him, before that every lamo noob pirate wannabee could fly up to ur can in a hauler and clean it out without u beeing able as so much twitch in his direction wihout getting concord on ur ass. a small guideline: 1. if u solo canmine in hi sec, be aware u might get robbed 2. if u don't wanna get robbed, get corpies to protect u or act as hauler 3. bait them back, get a bomberpilot to drop the can, mine in it, as soon as lamopiratewannabee takes from can, bomber decloaks and pwns his noobfrig, even if the guy comes back in a raven he can't shoot u cuz only ur corpmate is flagged to him, that or hope he comes back in a BS and decloak the ganksquad of ur own that was waiting for just such a silly move CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Barashi Nugan Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.01.16 14:45:00 - [124] Edited by: Barashi Nugan on 16/01/2008 14:47:13 I've canflipped many times over the past few months. It does work to get a fight, and so I'll continue until it's no longer effective. It's just another tool to use, just like miners can use tools like friends/alts in haulers, trekking it to the station, or to a lesser extent secure containers. Plus there's always deadspace belts that I'm usually not going to be bothered finding. And I've been on the other side. I started as a hardcore mining character (Hulk with skills to use all T2 crystals), and had periods of time where I wouldn't see a single thief for months, and weeks where I couldn't mine more than 10 minutes without someone coming by looking for a gank. It sucked, but I knew what I was risking when I did it. There was far to many times that I would have up to 5 full cans floating around me before I decided to grab the industrial. And sometimes this was in lowsec to! Now generally when I go out looking for some belt trouble, I bring my trusty T1 fit Incursus. It's cheap, effective, and agile enough to get around the belts quickly. If I find anything jetcan'ing, I'm probably going to have a go at it with the frig, up to and including mining battleships. I've killed a handful of cruisers, and nearly had a Ferox and Rokh (Ferox had missiles, Rokh was going down but stabbed), all in the lowly Incursus with basic T1 gear. If the mark warps off and comes back in something with more teeth, then I'll usually dock and switch ships as well. Sometimes I get popped, and sometimes I get some decent loot or a ransom. That last part is important. It's the reason most "can flippers" do it to begin with. It's just another form of highsec piracy. If it suddenly wasn't possible to get any isk from this, then I wouldn't have much reason to. I'm not trying to chase industrial competition away. And unless they're a wartarget, I could care less about hurting their wallet. I'm just looking to fatten mine, and watch a few pretty lights in the process. Plus the insane smacktalk you get sometimes is pretty funny. [IMAGE REMOVED] I'll usually try to make it a decent fight by going 1 step below them in ship type if they are a fairly new character. Cruiser vs BC or BC vs BS, etc. Depends on the situation at hand. I'm not trying to say it makes it more honorable, but it at least makes it more fun for everyone involved. Barge's seem to be harder and harder to hit though lately. Most seem to be either going back and forth from the station or have a hauler alt sitting next to them. And yes, I have popped a few cans before to initiate a fight. Just the other day I had an Osprey that had 2 cans nearly full sitting beside him in a belt. I flipped one can, and he ignored me. I flipped the other one, and he locked me and put out the drones, but wouldn't fire. I finally had to pop one of the cans, and that did the trick. Osprey went down, and he brought back a Drake to get even. So I got 2 T2 fitted kills within 10 minutes just because I irritated him enough by popping the can. I even tried ransoming the Drake, but he said I couldn't be trusted, and I got tired of arguing with him, lol. So yes, I do canflip when there isn't much else to do at the moment. And yes, I do sometimes pop the can if I think that's what I need for that extra nipple twist to get them to react to the situation. Other times I'll leave the can there as bait for the miner or another pilot that happens to warp in the belt and see's a juicy amount of ore sitting "unattended". [IMAGE REMOVED]
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.16 14:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Barashi Nugan I've killed a handful of cruisers, and nearly had a Ferox and Rokh (Ferox had missiles, Rokh was going down but stabbed) I just have one problem with your post... The Ferox was using missiles? [IMAGE REMOVED] Why not just use a Drake, then? Some missiles is fine on that boat, but if that's his weapon of choice and he uses a Ferox.... lol. [IMAGE REMOVED] My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Barashi Nugan Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.01.16 15:36:00 - [126] Edited by: Barashi Nugan on 16/01/2008 15:36:27 Originally by: Angel DeMorphis I just have one problem with your post... The Ferox was using missiles? Why not just use a Drake, then? Some missiles is fine on that boat, but if that's his weapon of choice and he uses a Ferox.... lol. Well he had mostly rails. But it's hard for medium rails to track a frig orbiting at 500m. He would have went down if he didn't have those missiles, as his drones were popped. I was heading back to grab the Thorax and try again, but a corpmate jumped into the belt with a Hurricane and scared him off. EDIT: wth? Smilies are disabled now?
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:57:00 - [127] Originally by: Barashi Nugan Well he had mostly rails. But it's hard for medium rails to track a frig orbiting at 500m. He would have went down if he didn't have those missiles, as his drones were popped. I was heading back to grab the Thorax and try again, but a corpmate jumped into the belt with a Hurricane and scared him off. EDIT: wth? Smilies are disabled now? Ah, yeah, the "mostly rails" is how a Ferox was meant to be fitted. Anyways, you have to hit Display Images checkbox at top to see images now, as joked about in my sig. My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Alowishus Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:58:00 - [128] Griefing in Eve is largely about morals, ethics and feelings, and other intangible things, rather than an official definition. To some people any form of non-consensual PvP is griefing. Which is ridiculous, but I see it on the forums daily. In my opinion there is no griefing in Eve unless you're violating some other rule in the process. My opinion is closely aligned with the official CCP stance on griefing (there is none within normal game mechanics). Given the number of whiners in Eve somebody is going to get their feelings hurt by just about everything. If whiners had their way everything would be griefing. In reality, just because it personally causes you grief does not mean it's griefing. People who use the terms griefer and griefing seriously in Eve are ignorant of the game, the rules and pretty much everything else. These are people that refuse to realize or admit they simply do not like Eve. /makes fart noise
Tanshi Daiko	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:14:00 - [129] I think the problem is the fact that many people are doing this with no thought towards potential profit, they are merely doing it to annoy. I`ve seen people randomly zoom round the belts flipping cans that are clearly dropped by noobs in rookie ships and that are of no value in any way. As an occasional ore thief, i spend time studying my targets and i dont bother with the rookies or low value can producers. They are not worth the time, frankly and they would probably protest and make all sorts of trouble, blowing my chances of susprise. I know what is and what is not worth it. These clowns all too often sit there taunting some newbie in a starting ship, or a low grade industrial, when their very ammunition would be worth more than anything they could get from either can or kill. It's like men with main battle tanks holding up a corner store for loose change. They hang around for ages too, which suggests that some really do not appreciate the futility of their actions. A good pirate, even a half blind one with a wooden leg, knows that there is such a thing as "a waste of time".....but these ones just dont.
Alowishus Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:20:00 - [130] It's a game, technically the whole thing is a "waste of time." /makes fart noise
Tashiell Gao Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:35:00 - [131] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Joana Darklight C: cant call corp mates cause steal flagging isnt corp wide WICH IT SHOUDL BE Hmm. Weird. It SHOULD be indeed. Are you 100% sure it isn't ? yes it isn't. we just used 2 t2 fitted bs to prove this Tashiell Gao, Minmatar in-side, RolePlayer.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:13:00 - [132] gotta love this vid CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
baltec1	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:33:00 - [133] Well, he stole from you, couldn't get a reaction, couldn't carry it out himself, so instead of leaving it to you to keep all the ore, he destroyed it himself. Perfectly reasonable tactic. As I said, denying your opponent resources is almost as good, sometimes better, than getting resources yourself (though both would be preferable). Also, I really got to ask, was this high sec Gravimetric site? Or why didn't he just shoot you if you were mining Jaspet in low sec? ____________________________________________________________________________________- Amarr rules! thats why I can mine jaspet in high sec :P But still, robbing ore then blowing it up when its that valuble just seems stupid to me. They arn't getting anything from it other than a larger pricetag on their replacement ships and lost time that could be better used earning money
Haradgrim The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.01.16 20:15:00 - [134] Attrition is a perfectly valid tactic in any form of war or combat Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.16 21:11:00 - [135] Originally by: Tashiell Gao Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Joana Darklight C: cant call corp mates cause steal flagging isnt corp wide WICH IT SHOUDL BE Hmm. Weird. It SHOULD be indeed. Are you 100% sure it isn't ? yes it isn't. we just used 2 t2 fitted bs to prove this If it isn't, it's a bug that's been introduced with Trinity. Before Trinity a friend of mine in another corp was hauling for my corp. The first time he took from my other friend's can, he was all flashy red to us. Petition it if it doesn't work that way for you. Worst they could say is it's an intended feature. My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.16 21:57:00 - [136] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Originally by: Tashiell Gao Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Joana Darklight C: cant call corp mates cause steal flagging isnt corp wide WICH IT SHOUDL BE Hmm. Weird. It SHOULD be indeed. Are you 100% sure it isn't ? yes it isn't. we just used 2 t2 fitted bs to prove this If it isn't, it's a bug that's been introduced with Trinity. Before Trinity a friend of mine in another corp was hauling for my corp. The first time he took from my other friend's can, he was all flashy red to us. Petition it if it doesn't work that way for you. Worst they could say is it's an intended feature. Stealing from a can that belongs to a player corp member does flag you to the entire corp and they can all shoot at them and the thief can only attack the member who fired and the thief's corp friends cannot assist him either. ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Barashi Nugan Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.01.17 22:18:00 - [137] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Stealing from a can that belongs to a player corp member does flag you to the entire corp and they can all shoot at them and the thief can only attack the member who fired and the thief's corp friends cannot assist him either. Well not directly, but they can of course remote rep and use energy transfers.

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