| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mrtankk
   |
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:40:00 -
[1]
This game needs to have cap ships removed. It was a mistake to impliment them, it was a mistake to make them OP. It was a mistake to pretty much require them for 0.0 life.
EVE has suffered the same thing as all other MMO's. Stagflation of the economy, tons and tons and tons of ISK are in game now. Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
The idea in its self was a good one, but the implimentation was flawed. Caps are THE end game of EVE. Some will disagree with that statement im sure, but overall, the huge majority will not.
I hate trying to find a decent fleet fight, and having 20 carriers dropped on my 10 man gang.
Of course, you cannot fix the sympton without fixing the problem.
POS warfare. ********. STUPID. WORST GAME DESIGN EVER. Get rid of this garbage. The front lines of combat should be fluid. ever moving. swapping systems from hour to hour. You should be able to take a system in hours if your organized and co-ordinated enough. Not days. Or weeks.
None of this. OMG we need 20 dreads, 20 carriers, and 150+ support to go kill this POS!
Small group tactics! Why SHOULDNT a determined force or group of small people have a shot at holding space?
Anyhow. Remove the cap ships. Remove the skills, refund the SP. Let them respend. ( although to be honest. to be a jerk, I would rather see the skill points go POOF. Cause I hate cap ships so much, and by extention, the people who fly them. This would make most of them quit im sure. good riddence. )
|
Mnem0nic
Gallente
MisFunk Inc.
Frontline.
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:42:00 -
[2]
Removed. Please refrain form "Can I have your stuff" comments. Navigator
|
Richard Phallus
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:43:00 -
[3]
Either refill your ritalin scrip or play more twitch FPSs . |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Pan Crastus on 28/01/2008 18:49:12
 Originally by: Mnem0nic
Removed. Please refrain form "Can I have your stuff" comments. Navigator
♥ Navigator
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:50:00 -
[5]
Why is dropping capships on BS more lame than shooting haulers with BS?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:52:00 -
[6]
Congratulations! You can point out problems without offering viable solutions or constructive comments!
Seriously, dude. Do you honestly think that the developers are suddenly going to just remove all capital and supercapital ships from the game? Or just remove POSes? You're an idiot.
If you want current game mechanics changed, don't just throw a hissy fit on the forums, come up with a constructive thread and offer an alternative design or a viable change that they could implement without just removing trillions of ISK of assets from the game.
----------------
Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2 |
baltec1
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:55:00 -
[7]
last pos bust I took part in was made up of nothing bigger than battleships with a bunch of support cruisers and frigs. A few dreads would have been nice but we dont need them to wage war. And as far as wars go, they are a slow and ponderous thing that are always predicted to be over by christmas but never are... 
|
Orb Lati
Minmatar
Cold-Fury
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:55:00 -
[8]
I thought i would remind the poster of how it was prior to sov and POS warfare but the realized that would be pointless so ill just summarize.
F**K OFF
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 18:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 28/01/2008 18:59:09
Awww... someone's throwing a tantrum because they can't fly or afford cap ships 
Originally by: Sharupak
When you go to vote, you are voting on whether you want to bend over or get on your knees.
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:07:00 -
[10]
can we remove drones too? i hate those buzzing critters
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Indomitus
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:13:00 -
[11]
Quote:
None of this. OMG we need 20 dreads, 20 carriers, and 150+ support to go kill this POS!
i was in a group who took a pos down only having BS and no caps...maybe ur group is determined but totally SUCKS AT THIS GAME..go play WoW lol
|
aQurio
Infamous Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:16:00 -
[12]
If all these things bother you why dont you just stay in high sec. Capitals and pos warfare will not bother you in high sec and there is plenty of pvp. I will admit there is times i miss station ping pong and even shield recharging but those days are long gone, get over it.
|
Dr Slice
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tarminic
Congratulations! You can point out problems without offering viable solutions or constructive comments!
Seriously, dude. Do you honestly think that the developers are suddenly going to just remove all capital and supercapital ships from the game? Or just remove POSes? You're an idiot.
If you want current game mechanics changed, don't just throw a hissy fit on the forums, come up with a constructive thread and offer an alternative design or a viable change that they could implement without just removing trillions of ISK of assets from the game.
To be fair, he did offer a viable solution: Remove Capital Ships from the game.
|
Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mrtankk
This game needs to have cap ships removed. It was a mistake to impliment them, it was a mistake to make them OP. It was a mistake to pretty much require them for 0.0 life.
EVE has suffered the same thing as all other MMO's. Stagflation of the economy, tons and tons and tons of ISK are in game now. Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
The idea in its self was a good one, but the implimentation was flawed. Caps are THE end game of EVE. Some will disagree with that statement im sure, but overall, the huge majority will not.
I hate trying to find a decent fleet fight, and having 20 carriers dropped on my 10 man gang.
Of course, you cannot fix the sympton without fixing the problem.
POS warfare. ********. STUPID. WORST GAME DESIGN EVER. Get rid of this garbage. The front lines of combat should be fluid. ever moving. swapping systems from hour to hour. You should be able to take a system in hours if your organized and co-ordinated enough. Not days. Or weeks.
None of this. OMG we need 20 dreads, 20 carriers, and 150+ support to go kill this POS!
Small group tactics! Why SHOULDNT a determined force or group of small people have a shot at holding space?
Anyhow. Remove the cap ships. Remove the skills, refund the SP. Let them respend. ( although to be honest. to be a jerk, I would rather see the skill points go POOF. Cause I hate cap ships so much, and by extention, the people who fly them. This would make most of them quit im sure. good riddence. )
stuff....can i haz it?
____________________________________________
Originally by: Thargat
They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
|
nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mrtankk
Waaah waaah! we have a 10 man corp because we are too lazy/don't want to manage a bigger corp, and we got our eye punched out by those who do the extra work to get a bigger fleet! Waaaah! We want to be able to kill 50 people with just 10 people, even though this is insanely unrealistic! Waaaaah!
That's what I got out of your post.
If history has taught us anything it is: he who has the most people wins the war. Barring that: he who spends more money wins the war. Barring that: he who has fewer people and funds fights with guerrilla warfare.
If you have fewer people, you'll have to find ways to stick and move. Keep it from ever becoming a game of numbers. Hit em and run. Set traps to get them solo or small gang. Hunt their supply routes. Do whatever it takes to keep your losses down, so as to avoid loss by attrition.
Read some stuff about Vietnam and how they did their guerrilla ops, then try to adapt those concepts to Eve. But yeah if you want to anchor a POS (city) so as to 'claim' some space, you can't avoid the numbers game, just like in real life. You raise a city? I bring my army to raze your city. You can't run from that fight.
Maybe find a couple of other small corps and form an alliance? That's basically what you're enemies are doing.
---------------------------
CEO Shrapnel Industries
"You like to blow s*** up, and we like to make that possible."
nethervoid - since '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|EVE|NWN|VG Beta|WoW] |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mrtankk
EVE has suffered the same thing as all other MMO's. Stagflation of the economy, tons and tons and tons of ISK are in game now. Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
Stagflation (i.e. stagnation combined with inflation) would mean people have less and less means to acquire money (i.e. unemployment or somesuch), and that accrued wealth in cash form is depreciating (i.e. prices RISE).
Since you have pointed out that "stuff" (including capitals) are getting cheaper, and that nobody really has a problem getting them... well... I see no stagnation, no inflation, and definetely no "stagflation" as you so put it.
Before spouting big words, you might want to research their meaning next time, and see if the meaning fits the situation you are trying to describe.
1|2|3|4|5. |
XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mrtankk
( although to be honest. to be a jerk, I would rather see the skill points go POOF. Cause I hate cap ships so much, and by extention, the people who fly them. This would make most of them quit im sure. good riddence. )
Goon detected. 
|
baltec1
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:35:00 -
[18]
Goon detected.
He cant be a goon, they love taking down motherships with a fleet of bantams...
|
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dr Slice
Originally by: Tarminic
Congratulations! You can point out problems without offering viable solutions or constructive comments!
Seriously, dude. Do you honestly think that the developers are suddenly going to just remove all capital and supercapital ships from the game? Or just remove POSes? You're an idiot.
If you want current game mechanics changed, don't just throw a hissy fit on the forums, come up with a constructive thread and offer an alternative design or a viable change that they could implement without just removing trillions of ISK of assets from the game.
To be fair, he did offer a viable solution: Remove Capital Ships from the game.
I think that calling that a "valid" solution is a stretch so extreme it warps space-time. 
You can't simply remove trillions of ISK in assets, that's a hell of a lot worse than nerfing honestly. Even if your carrier is useless you can melt it down and sell the minerals.
----------------
Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2 |
General StarScream
Borg Collective hive mind
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:38:00 -
[20]
I agree 100% i allso suffer from this Cap envy, and i really think they should be nerfed, until i can fly one as well.
Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 19:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/01/2008 19:52:54
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 28/01/2008 18:59:09
Awww... someone's throwing a tantrum because they can't fly or afford cap ships
Not that I agree with the substance of the OP's post, but you do realize that you could have his opinion while still having either (or both) the money and skills to fly a capital ship?
For instance, I can afford capital ships. I could also, should I chose to buy the required skill books, be in one rather quickly. Personally, I hate them, think they're too much of a liability, and prefer to be really good at flying regular ships.
This doesn't mean that I think cap ships can be removed from the game (as the OP suggests). Rather it is simply an illustration that it is possible ::shock:: that some of us don't want to fly cap ships. EVEN if they're affordable for us, and we have the skills, or could have them rather quickly.
My point. Don't assume people who aren't in cap ships, or who don't like them, are simply people who want them but can't afford them. That is, to be frank, ******* ridiculous.
-Karlemgne
|
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/01/2008 20:04:59
Originally by: nether void
Omfg, noob. Eve is a game where you are supposed to play like me and my buddies in giant 0.0 alliances. If you aren't willing to play the game exactly how I do, and make yourself a nameless drone in a large corp who is part of a large alliance, then STFU. Some of us treat this game like a real job, and you should too. If you aren't willing to play the game the way WE do and spend 8 hours a day online, being bossed around, and grinding so you can fly capital ships yourself go play wow.
Which by-the-way I used to play and was a member of big raiding guild. I told the noobs that weren't in raiding guilds that they shouldn't ask Blizzard to fix the game so they could enjoy it too. Everyone know that MMOs are about being bossed around on Vent or TS and spending 6 hours a day running high-end content. Everyone and everything else is pointless.
That's basically what I got out of your post.
-Karlemgne
|
Xindi Kraid
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: nether void
Originally by: Mrtankk
Waaah waaah! we have a 10 man corp because we are too lazy/don't want to manage a bigger corp, and we got our eye punched out by those who do the extra work to get a bigger fleet! Waaaah! We want to be able to kill 50 people with just 10 people, even though this is insanely unrealistic! Waaaaah!
That's what I got out of your post.
If history has taught us anything it is: he who has the most people wins the war. Barring that: he who spends more money wins the war. Barring that: he who has fewer people and funds fights with guerrilla warfare.
If you have fewer people, you'll have to find ways to stick and move. Keep it from ever becoming a game of numbers. Hit em and run. Set traps to get them solo or small gang. Hunt their supply routes. Do whatever it takes to keep your losses down, so as to avoid loss by attrition.
Read some stuff about Vietnam and how they did their guerrilla ops, then try to adapt those concepts to Eve. But yeah if you want to anchor a POS (city) so as to 'claim' some space, you can't avoid the numbers game, just like in real life. You raise a city? I bring my army to raze your city. You can't run from that fight.
Maybe find a couple of other small corps and form an alliance? That's basically what you're enemies are doing.
If only we could set traps. We need minefields and such
--Bird of Prey: Forum God
1. War
2.
3. Profit |
Dionisius
Gallente
Critical Analysis
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:12:00 -
[24]
@The people that are saying, go band with others and form alliances and gank and MMO's are not for solo play, etc etc and so forth...
The questions are...
a) Why should he play the game the way you want it?
b) Where is it written that a MMO, any MMO should be played with a bunch of people giving orders to others in TS?
c)What happened to the association of FUN with GAMES?
GF:Sugar come here i gotz thingz to show ya...
SOMEONE: Not nowz love, i gotz to mine for my bossez in my big allianz so that he can have his capital shipz and we be big on za internet gamez.
_____________________________________
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Waxau
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:13:00 -
[25]
Oh dear, is it that time of the month already?
|
Grunanca
BLACK-FLAG
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:13:00 -
[26]
But it looks sooo good on the killboard when an 8 man bc group kills a carrier
|
Bimjo
Caldari
SKULLDOGS
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Orb Lati
I thought i would remind the poster of how it was prior to sov and POS warfare but the realized that would be pointless so ill just summarize.
F**K OFF
there was no need to swear
========================
XXX |
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:20:00 -
[28]
Dear Mr. Noob Alt OP:
The entire region of Querious, former home to one of the longest lasting Alliances in Eve (Fix), was taken without a single Capital Ship. I believe the count was over 48 POS's, all destroyed with BS's.
Other than that obvious refutation of your entire premise, I would point out that you need to keep your grubby hands off of my beautiful Carrier. ZuluPark, is that you?
|
baltec1
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:24:00 -
[29]
look theres 2 arguments going on in here.
The first is the argument that the cost of losing ships is too high. Which to be honest is compleatly irelevent since if you cannot afford to lose it you shouldnt be flying it in pvp in the first place. Fly only what you can afford to lose.
The second is people who are wanting more fights and don't like the fact that when they encroch upon an area of space controled by an organised corp/allience get a gang of ships show up to engage them. There is no use complaining about it because at the end of the day its your choice to be a pirate/soloist so you only have yourself to blame when a corp/allience shows up to deal with your trespassing.
Equaly you cannot complain about people running from superior firepower since at the end of the day they are looking out for thier own interests not yours.
|
Jayne Tamm
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:32:00 -
[30]
this is such a pointless arguement!
you have to have capital ships!!! EVE is a space game ffs!!!
a space game without cap ships is like C&C without the mammoth tank!!! blasphemy
|
Onchas Erivvia
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:41:00 -
[31]
A few things to get out of the way first,
1) you COULD get rid of capital ships, but I don't think the economics work out as well,
2) I think Titans and Motherships were poorly implemented. There should have been only one of them, and it should have been a deployable station. Motherships have a place. Something with a big hold, a clone vat, and a jump portal. Dooms Day Devices, no.
Okay, so here's the quick and dirty of how Eve works and why a small group shouldn't be allowed to hold space.
Ratting, mining, and mission running is how individual, empire players make isk. Most people just move to 0.0 space and do the same thing.
The big, successful alliances don't maintain themselves by mining and ratting incomes. Crap alliances may do that -- charging a significant tax at station. But the serious players in the game, don't. Why? Because you can't actually run an alliance and hold space against any sort of opposition that way. Some have managed to hold on by occupying crap space or having strong presence in a generally weak timezone (US player-based alliances in particular).
For the big, serious-business alliances Isk is made from moon minerals. They put POSes in space to mine moon minerals. Set up other POSes to run reactions. Set up other poses to run more reactions. Set up other poses to run manufacturing jobs that take the reactions and make them into tech2 components (note components, that's mod modules and ships, that components).
The real isk in Eve isn't made off Tech2 ships and mods. The real isk is made by making components. Invention didn't do one lick to influence the tech2 component market. If anything, it raised those prices by increasing the market for tech2-build components.
Moon mining, reactions, build-jobs are all approximately weekly-cycles. If "a few players" can take over control of a system in a few hours a few things happen. 1) you lose station ownership WAAAAY to fast, causing timezone imbalances, 2) you don't allow production cycles to occur.
Sovereignty isn't about having POSes up or owning stations. Yeah, those are convenient. Controlling space in 0.0 isn't about ratting faction spawns or mining Crokite. It's about access moon minerals and making the piles and piles of isk.
POSes are expensive to run. Too much for a small number of players to both control space and run the POSes and sell the products and make isk at the same time. POSes, moon mining, and sovereignty are all large-group tasks. Why? Because the amount of isk you can make is insanely high.
Whenever that kind of isk-making potential is possible you MUST have large sinks. Dreadnaughts were brought in to be POS killers. Carriers, POS reppers and ships to counter-smaller ships moving in to attack Dreads.
Those ships represent the isk sinks for corporations and alliances who are involved in POS-ownership and Moon mining and Tech2 component production.
Vast money making potential requires vast cost centres, or you'd really see inflation (or stagflation as mrtankk is trying to spin it).
Again, titans and motherships dumb. POS warfare, Dreads, and Carriers not dumb. The game mechanics still need to get fixed.
The reason why small groups shouldn't be able to do it is the isk making potential is huge because the market is huge.
The game needs skill sinks, the same way it needs isk sinks. Capital ships represent a capital investment. They're needed by Alliances to secure and maintain their POS structures. Those structures exist to feed the game with tech2 components, and to feed the alliances isk. It's all about game content and giving people a reason to fight who live across timezones and on a cycle (about a week) that makes sense for the average player's schedules.
Capitals aren't the end game of Eve. Capitals are just a way of securing economic control. And Economic control is content.
Welcome to Eve!
------------------------------------------
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"
'Teh Onchinator' |
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dionisius
@The people that are saying, go band with others and form alliances and gank and MMO's are not for solo play, etc etc and so forth...
The questions are...
a) Why should he play the game the way you want it?
b) Where is it written that a MMO, any MMO should be played with a bunch of people giving orders to others in TS?
c)What happened to the association of FUN with GAMES?
GF:Sugar come here i gotz thingz to show ya...
SOMEONE: Not nowz love, i gotz to mine for my bossez in my big allianz so that he can have his capital shipz and we be big on za internet gamez.
A-*******-men
|
Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:46:00 -
[33]
even if replying to flamebat is bad but hek: OP = failage.
next tread plz!
|
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 20:48:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/01/2008 20:49:35
Originally by: Coniglietta Magica
Originally by: Mrtankk
This game needs to have cap ships removed.
Remove yourself. If the game is not to your liking go away. Don't play. Don't **** up other peoples experience.. Stay in empire until you are ready to play with the big toys.
Because that makes sense. You don't like everything about this game as it exists now, leave.
We should then, remove the testing, game development, and feedback forums.
And next time I see you complain about ANYTHING you should be tossed from EVE. Because, as you suggest, don't like how things are now? Leave.
Fortunately, the world doesn't actually work that way. We can be members of a community, and players of a game, and like our surroundings for the most part, but still offer suggestions to make it better.
Now go home, and grow up, because the "love it or leave it" mentality is infantile.
-Karlemgne
|
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 21:17:00 -
[35]
How about a new HIC script: the Cyno Jammer.
|
Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 22:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
A few things to get out of the way first...
That was by far the most educational post in this whole thread. Thanks!
________________
|
Fanjita
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 22:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Orb Lati
I thought i would remind the poster of how it was prior to sov and POS warfare but the realized that would be pointless so ill just summarize.
F**K OFF
you mean really good and a lot better experience than it is now?
|
Turin
Caldari
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 22:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Turin on 28/01/2008 22:43:58
While I think the OP is a bit... ah... over the top. I cant say I entirely disagree with him. Titans are stupid. Just dumb, silly ships that quite frankly unbalance the game.
How the hell do you take a system when your enemy has so many titans they are DD'ing every 10 minutes? It CAN be done. But is that FUN? Certainly not.
I enjoy Cap and POS warfare. I recognize though, that in its current configuration, it will simply eliminate smaller alliances.
EVE is sadly all about numbers. He who has the most numbers ( almost always ) wins. Until EVE finds a way to make you WANT to split up your forces, then no one is going to. So, your going to have 100 cap ships in system, and people gong nuts.
I think thats a shame personally. Sure the little guy can help, but not very effectually.
This game is currently build to encourage HUGE numbers, hell, REQUIRE them. But the servers cannot take it.
The OP is partially correct. TITANS and MOMS are DUMB. Carriers and Titans.... eh. I dunno. I could honestly say I would be glad to see them go and not be unhappy about it.
You could actually apply economic warfare to enemies. Kill them taking supplies back to 0.0. Make things HURT. I dunno. I enjoy my cap ships, but I can see how most people will not enjoy having to deal with them. They make it FAR to easy for bigger alliances to pick on smaller guys, and not really leaving the smaller guys any options. If you have a 500 man alliance, and someone is dropping 100 cap ships a day on you, odds are you are eventually going to say screw it and not login.
This game is supposed to be about FUN, and POS / Cap warefare remove that fun for MANY people ( not all )
Also, the tend of the EVE community, the second anyone looks for ANY change to gameplay, gets flamed, smashed, and forum agrod to crap, is stupid.
Why is ANY ask for a change by ANYONE regarding ANYTHING always met with a "STFO CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF!" "IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT PLAY!!!"
I would like to think I play with a more mature player base. Crap like this sadly paints most of you as 2 year olds.
_________________________________
|
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 22:50:00 -
[39]
It's as Turin said numbers win the majority of the time. Until there is a reason to use smaller amounts of capitals and other ships there really is no downside to m0ar ships. Why would i want to fly a smaller ship when a doomsday can just rock my face in?
Then again if CCP caves to the whiners and completely neuters capitals after i spend the next 3+ months training for them pff im gone I have better things to do than waste even more time.
Love to the Assault Frigate! |
Turin
Caldari
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 22:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
It's as Turin said numbers win the majority of the time. Until there is a reason to use smaller amounts of capitals and other ships there really is no downside to m0ar ships. Why would i want to fly a smaller ship when a doomsday can just rock my face in?
Then again if CCP caves to the whiners and completely neuters capitals after i spend the next 3+ months training for them pff im gone I have better things to do than waste even more time.
So, you acknowledge the problem, but will quit if they fix it? Seems a bit of a counter action to me.
_________________________________
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:06:00 -
[41]
Replace the words "capital ships" with "battleships" in your OP.
Then with "battlecruisers". Then with "cruisers". And so on.
Yes, that's right, CCP should remove EVERYTHING EXCEPT T1 FRIGATES from the game !
Since, you know, anything else is unfair or somesuch.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Twin blade
Minmatar
The Triangle
Exa Nation
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:30:00 -
[42]
Its simple just add a Battleship with XL weapons but only make there tracking to low to hit other battleships but be able to but a real punch in a cap ship.
A well balanced BS with XL guns would be great to have in EVE to counter caps as long as it don't lead to them destroying POS's or just going and been able to take a cap out solo.
Maybe even battleship size stealth bomber's with XL torps to do sneaky hit and runs on caps.
Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Kerfira
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:33:00 -
[43]
The one thing CCP could do was take away character trading/transfers.
The proliferation of cap ships is largely due to the fact that when a player retires from EVE, very often his good characters are sold off, and thus they live on.
If there were no character trading/transfers, then cap pilots would have to train the skills themselves, and their characters would leave the game when they did.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Alowishus
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:38:00 -
[44]
If CCP didn't add bigger and better things then they'd lose older players who had reached the pinnacle of Eve and had nothing else to achieve. Now we have Motherships and Titans. It just makes me wonder what's next. And that's a good thing.
/makes fart noise
|
Sing Axe
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:50:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Sing Axe on 28/01/2008 23:51:34
Edited by: Sing Axe on 28/01/2008 23:51:03
Originally by: Mrtankk
This game needs to have cap ships removed. It was a mistake to impliment them, it was a mistake to make them OP. It was a mistake to pretty much require them for 0.0 life.
EVE has suffered the same thing as all other MMO's. Stagflation of the economy, tons and tons and tons of ISK are in game now. Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
I don't want to get into the substance, since so many people have already handled that. But you are refuting yourself here. Stagflation would mean rapidly increasing prices while there was no growth in the Eveconomy, and you then complain that cap ships are too cheap and ever more obtainable!
So what you're actually complaining about is the GROWTH of the economy and increased productivity is giving more access to high end ships. Dude, you're doing it wrong!
But what you're complaining about is the biggest evidence that Eve is healthy and thriving. Thanks for coming out, hope you have better luck next time you're on the forums.
|
Grytok
moon7empler
Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:52:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Edited by: Onchas Erivvia on 28/01/2008 22:22:21
A few things to get out of the way first,
...
winning post!
...
This is why there are capitals. I don't like them and I cba to train for them, because fights including capitals are slow going and boring (I'm down in PB atm and know what I'm talking about :p).
CCP could've introduced other major ISK-sinks I believe and battleships would be the real thing to fight in, but CCP didn't.
Now it's way too late to haul back and remove them.
.
CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\ |
Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
|
Posted - 2008.01.28 23:56:00 -
[47]
Its an awful OP - offering no valid solution.
In my view the problem isnt that Cap ships are a possible 'end game' ship for the veteran player with money to burn - its just that they are currently the only option available.
I was chatting to my corp mates about this, and most didnt really want to fly a dread, or a carrier - that sort of ship just didnt appeal. We generally ageed that Blackops were the way we'd probably progress - and there I see the solution: more capable 'high end' ships - not necessarily 'bigger' but just offering new capabilities at a cost in ISK and training time.
The options here are pretty varied. If a "warp capable cloaking interceptor" existed, but cost a fortune, and took a looong while to train Im sure someone would want that ship, rather than a carrier.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
Bane Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Akita T
Replace the words "capital ships" with "battleships" in your OP.
Then with "battlecruisers". Then with "cruisers". And so on.
Yes, that's right, CCP should remove EVERYTHING EXCEPT T1 FRIGATES from the game !
Since, you know, anything else is unfair or somesuch.
This is really not an appropriate analogy.
Almost every skill you will train to be good with a Battleship is good for Battlecruisers and below as well; Sharpshooter, Gunnery, Warhead Upgrades, Heavy Drones, or whatever. It only really takes a couple months to be half decent with a Battleship, though if you spend another three months you will be much better.
Conversely, Capitals require nearly a year of skill training that has absolutely no effect on anything but capital ships and take far longer to train. Advanced Starship Command, Capital Ships, Advanced Drone Interfacing, Tactical Weapons Reconfiguration, Jump Drive Operation/Configuration, and many more are examples. In some cases, even skills that are good for subcapitals don't even directly do anything for capitals; for example, many drone skills don't do anything to fighters, such as Drone Navigation.
Even more importantly, capitals move from system to system through means completely different from subcapitals.
The escalation from Battleship to Carrier or Dread is not the same as Cruiser->BS or Frigate->Cruiser. What people often forget is that while common perception of what capitals are supposed to be like has changed since they were introduced, they were meant to be a specialization appealing to wealthy veteran players, not the baseline or obligation for everyone.
Now CCP has to work to find a good compromise. |
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Turin
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
It's as Turin said numbers win the majority of the time. Until there is a reason to use smaller amounts of capitals and other ships there really is no downside to m0ar ships. Why would i want to fly a smaller ship when a doomsday can just rock my face in?
Then again if CCP caves to the whiners and completely neuters capitals after i spend the next 3+ months training for them pff im gone I have better things to do than waste even more time.
So, you acknowledge the problem, but will quit if they fix it? Seems a bit of a counter action to me.
Actually no. The problem is numbers, not what the numbers are. You will always be more effective with more ships wither they be capitals or not. 20 BS are better than 19 BS...etc.
Figure out how to let a balanced gang (including capitals) be able to complete viable goals and problem solved.
I am arguing against his want for TOTAL removal of caps, the very idea of that is flawed to the extreme. To me BS are fine and dandy, but really I am bored to tears with them. Carriers give me something else to be entertained with on a bigger scale which i like. I enjoy big ships, take that away and eve loses some of it's luster.
So yea remove them, I'm gone. Not as though ccp would do this, but nerfing them enough would be doing just about the same thing.
Love to the Assault Frigate! |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:24:00 -
[50]
The problem isnt that they exist, its that carrier and MS are way too powerful against sub-capitals. Something's wrong when a gate camp can get 2 or 3 times more firepower due to the presence of a couple of rich, high-SP players who are hiding at a safe. I also agree that POS wars are lame, and that and sov needs to be revisited. Essentially, we need RMR 2.0.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
|
Cornette
Gallente
Black Screen of Death
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Alz Shado
How about a new HIC script: the Cyno Jammer.
I vote yes to that. Does not have to block a whole system, just the grid the hictor is at to stop people hot dropping moms and carriers on your head.
so signed.
|
consider telos
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:45:00 -
[52]
Omg, there's jedi's everywhere now. I spent ages getting holocrons to unlock my force sensitive slot! It was hard to get there but it kept it special. Now you've removed them and added this stupid village. Now everyone is grinding up jedi and it's diluting this a-symmetric skew, you built into the faulty game mechanics, by creating an easily obtainable alpha class. When are you going to reinstate the force ranking system! You said you'd do it last publish..
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:46:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Del Narveux
The problem isnt that they exist, its that carrier and MS are way too powerful against sub-capitals. Something's wrong when a gate camp can get 2 or 3 times more firepower due to the presence of a couple of rich, high-SP players who are hiding at a safe. I also agree that POS wars are lame, and that and sov needs to be revisited. Essentially, we need RMR 2.0.
It's a CAPITAL ship! It would just be a battleship is a battleship could take it out
Originally by: Sharupak
When you go to vote, you are voting on whether you want to bend over or get on your knees.
|
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mnem0nic
Removed. Please refrain form "Can I have your stuff" comments. Navigator
Welcome to EvE |
Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 00:52:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Cornette
Originally by: Alz Shado
How about a new HIC script: the Cyno Jammer.
I vote yes to that. Does not have to block a whole system, just the grid the hictor is at to stop people hot dropping moms and carriers on your head.
so signed.
And then people would just field 20 carriers remote repping a few hics, you'd never be able to beat them.
|
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 01:05:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Del Narveux
The problem isnt that they exist, its that carrier and MS are way too powerful against sub-capitals. Something's wrong when a gate camp can get 2 or 3 times more firepower due to the presence of a couple of rich, high-SP players who are hiding at a safe.
Bring ewar, bring gank bs's, bring your own capitals?
Love to the Assault Frigate! |
Fanjita
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 02:08:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Alowishus
If CCP didn't add bigger and better things then they'd lose older players who had reached the pinnacle of Eve and had nothing else to achieve. Now we have Motherships and Titans. It just makes me wonder what's next. And that's a good thing.
thats a load of crap as a 60 mill sp player, playing for four years i cant fly caps and dont intend to they are crap and lead you to a 200 man gang sitting on a gate for 20 minutes wondering where the hostiles are till you wake up in a station. I play eve for the PVP not the lagfests unfortunately there isnt much pvp in eve anymore unless your into trade and the market which im not.
|
Daelorn
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 02:11:00 -
[58]
RAWL BACK TO CASTOR!!
|
Rabbitgod
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 04:50:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Rabbitgod on 29/01/2008 04:50:54
Their is so much fail in this thread that it actually hurts to read it.
Cap ship poplosions are too pretty to justify removing them.
...and thats what happen to ASCN while you were gone for a year.
Rabbitgod: Alcoholism, I has it now.
---{24th member of the 23}---
|
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 06:35:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 29/01/2008 06:35:52
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Mrtankk
EVE has suffered the same thing as all other MMO's. Stagflation of the economy, tons and tons and tons of ISK are in game now. Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
Stagflation (i.e. stagnation combined with inflation) would mean people have less and less means to acquire money (i.e. unemployment or somesuch), and that accrued wealth in cash form is depreciating (i.e. prices RISE).
Since you have pointed out that "stuff" (including capitals) are getting cheaper, and that nobody really has a problem getting them... well... I see no stagnation, no inflation, and definetely no "stagflation" as you so put it.
Before spouting big words, you might want to research their meaning next time, and see if the meaning fits the situation you are trying to describe.
Of course, Akita beats me to the punch. . .
Originally by: Cornette
Originally by: Alz Shado
How about a new HIC script: the Cyno Jammer.
I vote yes to that. Does not have to block a whole system, just the grid the hictor is at to stop people hot dropping moms and carriers on your head.
so signed.
That. . . could be interesting. Not sure what penalties it would need (no remote aid, to prevent Gamesguy's doomsday scenario of 20 Carriers repping the thing while it permablocks a grid), but that could definitely be an interesting ability.
--------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales
FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Ama-gi
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:16:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/01/2008 20:04:59
Originally by: nether void
Omfg, noob. Eve is a game where you are supposed to play like me and my buddies in giant 0.0 alliances. If you aren't willing to play the game exactly how I do, and make yourself a nameless drone in a large corp who is part of a large alliance, then STFU. Some of us treat this game like a real job, and you should too. If you aren't willing to play the game the way WE do and spend 8 hours a day online, being bossed around, and grinding so you can fly capital ships yourself go play wow.
Which by-the-way I used to play and was a member of big raiding guild. I told the noobs that weren't in raiding guilds that they shouldn't ask Blizzard to fix the game so they could enjoy it too. Everyone know that MMOs are about being bossed around on Vent or TS and spending 6 hours a day running high-end content. Everyone and everything else is pointless.
That's basically what I got out of your post.
-Karlemgne
I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to appropriately complement you on your post. I can't find the words. simply a work of art ;)
--
No love for the Matari |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:28:00 -
[62]
I see the point of the OP. Getting rid of all capitals is a bit too much, but changes would be good.
1. I would not allow any more MS and titans to be built. Once the current ones get destroyed, that should be it. Reimburse all BPO holders with a full refund on their BPO.
2. I would increase the LO use of carriers, dreads, moms and titans by a factor of 5. Also add a use of X heavy water per minute when undocked to fuel cap generation (i.e. no heavy water, cap stops going up and goes down over time, when HW is used, cap goes up again). They are warmachines, not something you would drop on any random 5 man ganksquad, the cost of operating them needs to be increased. With the jumpfreighter you should not need those ships for transport anyway, so there is no harm to logistics.
------------------------------------------------
|
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:40:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
I see the point of the OP. Getting rid of all capitals is a bit too much, but changes would be good.
1. I would not allow any more MS and titans to be built. Once the current ones get destroyed, that should be it. Reimburse all BPO holders with a full refund on their BPO.
2. I would increase the LO use of carriers, dreads, moms and titans by a factor of 5. Also add a use of X heavy water per minute when undocked to fuel cap generation (i.e. no heavy water, cap stops going up and goes down over time, when HW is used, cap goes up again). They are warmachines, not something you would drop on any random 5 man ganksquad, the cost of operating them needs to be increased. With the jumpfreighter you should not need those ships for transport anyway, so there is no harm to logistics.
I get your vibe (I just had my 3 man gang be swarmed by carriers a little ways back in lowsec, their deployment may not be gamebreaking but it certainly is out of line with the fleet oriented roles they should occupy) but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on your first course of action. Having the solopwnmobile you trained for be readjusted may not necessitate an SP refund, but completely deleting the ships from the gang and leaving you with months and months of useless skills certainly does. Also, reimbursing BPO holders only goes so far to refund how much time and research was put into the prints.
I have no idea what LO is an abbreviation of, but I like the heavy water/minute thing.
|
yessir Icanboogie
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:40:00 -
[64]
Edited by: yessir Icanboogie on 29/01/2008 08:45:52
While the OP fail to argue on a decent level "remove it because I hate it", there's a few points with what he say.
 First off, before capitals existed everyone could easily train to battleships in fairly short time. The SP heavy characters would drive and fit them better, but everyone had access to it. To drive a capital you need a crapload of time invested. Isk-wise it's no huge difference, a bs was once quite expensive, so was capitals (while not so, now). In that sense capitals fail, it's not something accessible for the general public.
Second off, before capitals, you could bring your fleet of frig-sized ships and take out battleship gangs. Since when do you nuke capital gangs with your cruiser sized roamers? In that sense capitals fail and adds to blobbing.
Third, POS warfare has it's pro's and con's. I don't say I agree or disagree with the OP because frankly I havn't made up my mind, but there's good and bad sides with it. The good side is the defenders get a decent chance to defend it. The good side is you can still take over high sov space in short time. The bad side is it adds to blobbing, and it helps to use capitals in POS warfare (both to construct and to destroy).
Fourth, I almost forgot this part; the impact that "cyno-alts" has thanks to (or not) capital ships. The only good things I can think of having cyno alts is either in CCP's view (more income), or a way for low-sp pilots to still be useful to cap fleets. Wouldn't it give alot more satisfaction to the general public/player if he could be there shooting at the cap instead of being reduced to be the 'cyno guy'? Can't imagine how appealing it has to be for a new guy to EVE to do someones legwork, not get to shoot at anything, and have a high risk of being shot down - not to mention that you spend quality training time just to be able to transport other people around. It doesn't improve you in anyway.
Just to add a note, yes my main is a capital ship pilot. Do I think capitals should be removed? No, but the hefty skill requirement bugs me. You need a big corp/alliance, or at least a very strong core of old players in a small corp, to fight capitals. Is that reasonable? I don't think so, it goes against the very idea that many small ships and low skillpoints can fight big strong and high skillpoint pilots.
Solution? No we can't remove them, too huge impact on the game. But we could make the step between battleship and carrier/dread smaller by introducting a shipsize inbetween, with less skill-heavy training required.
|
NiGHTSintodreams
Racketeers
Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Mrtankk
Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
Isn't that the point of having an economy-- to make things cheaper and more accessible for all so long as they're still profitable?
Though I do feel that capital ships are essentially i-win buttons especially when there are more than one in a given system.
---
It's a dream paradox...
|
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:51:00 -
[66]
Originally by: yessir Icanboogie
Solution? No we can't remove them, too huge impact on the game. But we could make the step between battleship and carrier/dread smaller by introducting a shipsize inbetween, with less skill-heavy training required.
I don't feel we can do that. It doesn't solve the issue of capital ships taking over battleships as the epitome of fleet combat. A ship slightly smaller than a capital will just make smaller ships yet more obsolete, while doing nothing to disrupt capital ship supremacy. An effective anti-capital ship would just render existing caps useless, as they'd be certain to be in every blob in considerable numbers, and simply removing them from the game is never a good answer. The more I think about it, the more I'm determined that it's not the capital ship's attributes or counters that are at fault.
It's the ease of their deployment that makes them so functional outside of fleet combat. Caps should only be something that should require intense logistics and are only briefly functional as absolute war machines adding support to battles on a scale where their presence is necessitated. They should turn the tides of battles, but it shouldn't be possible (or at least economic/reasonable) to hot drop them on every small gang that wanders into blob land. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
|
Cornette
Gallente
Black Screen of Death
HUZZAH FEDERATION
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 08:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Cornette
Originally by: Alz Shado
How about a new HIC script: the Cyno Jammer.
I vote yes to that. Does not have to block a whole system, just the grid the hictor is at to stop people hot dropping moms and carriers on your head.
so signed.
And then people would just field 20 carriers remote repping a few hics, you'd never be able to beat them.
Not true. You simply cyno in your carriers into another part of the system then you warp them as group to the target. But that will take you time. Enough time for those that would usually get pwned by those carriers to react.
As it is now capitals are destroying small-scale pvp. They are to easy to use and very effective against an enemy who lacks numbers and/or have no own capitals. Cost of fuel is obviously no issue because some bring in a group of carriers even if the target just happen to be a lone battlecruiser.
First time this happened to me they cyno in two carriers just to try kill my small group of 4 ceptors, because winning for some people are more important then having fun.
|
yessir Icanboogie
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:02:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
I don't feel we can do that. It doesn't solve the issue of capital ships taking over battleships as the epitome of fleet combat. A ship slightly smaller than a capital will just make smaller ships yet more obsolete, while doing nothing to disrupt capital ship supremacy. An effective anti-capital ship would just render existing caps useless, as they'd be certain to be in every blob in considerable numbers, and simply removing them from the game is never a good answer. The more I think about it, the more I'm determined that it's not the capital ship's attributes or counters that are at fault.
It's the ease of their deployment that makes them so functional outside of fleet combat. Caps should only be something that should require intense logistics and are only briefly functional as absolute war machines adding support to battles on a scale where their presence is necessitated. They should turn the tides of battles, but it shouldn't be possible (or at least economic/reasonable) to hot drop them on every small gang that wanders into blob land. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
It's a tricky situation. They're the peak of the game, for the older devoted players, yet powerful enough to a few of them owning huge amounts of battleships. It doesn't make sense if you compare to recent situations in EVE where the size of your ship nor skillpoints had that kind of impact.
Yet again this is killing things for younger players and smaller corps/alliances/organized gangs. And it doesn't take much effort either.
Yah I agree with you that "anti-caps" would pretty much make them void, or at least not nearly as useful to match the skillpoints spent. I come to the same conslusion as you do when you mention the deployment and functionality.
Just look at this; alliance A is fairly young, they bring 40 battleships + support to shoot at a POS. Alliance B is older, have less people online and just cyno in 2 carriers with some small support ships. What is the smaller alliance supposed to do? Get 400 battleships and crash the node? Join Alliance C that like B has older players with capitals?
It's a cold war and capital ships is the nuclear warheads. They're too powerful as they are. Not in themselves, they definately don't need a nerf, but they're way too powerful in a group pvp situation.
|
Sha4d13
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:27:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Sha4d13 on 29/01/2008 09:31:40
Well noo- the younger alliance are stupid in trying to shoot a pos belonging to an alliance that is more powerful and better set up. They should wait until they have either the allies or the strength to engage.
The alternative is to make every single ship the same so everyone has a fair chance against everyone. Or WOW as its also known.
Oh- and if someone is trying to kill 4 ceptors with a carrier, you should refrain from panicking and have some fun with them... Ceptors can go faster than fighters...
|
ry ry
StateCorp
The State
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:35:00 -
[70]
Edited by: ry ry on 29/01/2008 09:36:00
Originally by: Sha4d13
The alternative is to make every single ship the same so everyone has a fair chance against everyone. Or WOW as its also known.
no, that's Eve-Online you're thinking of. in WoW it's virtually impossible for a level 50 character to kill a level 60, whereas in Eve we've killed carriers with frigates.
if you're going to do the LOLWOWLOLWOW thing, you might as well get it right.
[IMAGE REMOVED] |
Sha4d13
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:39:00 -
[71]
The point being anyone can speed level up to where he wants...
Try dealing with the topic in hand rather than making poor attempts at pedantry.
|
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:45:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Karyuudo Tydraad on 29/01/2008 09:45:58
Originally by: Sha4d13
The point being anyone can speed level up to where he wants...
Try dealing with the topic in hand rather than making poor attempts at pedantry.
I don't understand. Are you making the wildly inaccurate claim that the only method of balancing ships in Eve would be to implement a system where grinding would accelerate the training of skills, and alter ship stats to be completely identical? Is it not possible to, in fact, orient ships around complementary roles, and in doing so carve niches out for different ships? This then, is the challenge presented. Contain the niche of the capital ship to the massive fleet battles it was supposed to be oriented around, without damaging it's effectiveness in this regard, but prevent it from utterly dominating combat and eliminating the roles of smaller ships in the realm of small gang combat.
|
Sha4d13
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:50:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Sha4d13 on 29/01/2008 09:51:11
I think you need to get a grip.
This whole thread is a "hes more powerful than me because hes spent more time in game than me" whine.
Why on earth should a nub gang or alliance be able to see off a superior corp or alliance? The whole thrust of this thread is people without- trying to drag down those that have caps so they can get a "fair" fight.
Eve isnt about fair fights- its about power, strength and ability. If your enemy has bigger tougher ships and pilots- dont whine and ask for a nerf to help nyou catch up- learn, build, make allies.... Its the whole damned point of the game.
The idea that carriers "dominate" combat, or that other ships are worthelss is completely nonsensical.
|
Nick Curso
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:52:00 -
[74]
If only we could set traps. We need minefields and such
OMG please no never again not those please 
*Still has nightmares about JIP mine fields
Please do not post pictures of players in your sig - Mitnal |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 09:55:00 -
[75]
Originally by: yessir Icanboogie
Just look at this; alliance A is fairly young, they bring 40 battleships + support to shoot at a POS. Alliance B is older, have less people online and just cyno in 2 carriers with some small support ships. What is the smaller alliance supposed to do? Get 400 battleships and crash the node? Join Alliance C that like B has older players with capitals?
To be honest, this does not strike me as an issue. Well, POS warfare and the mechanics thereof that encourage this kind of blobbing may be an issue, but that's an idea for another thread. So long as the two carriers actually require a fleet alongside them, the system is working (and currently two carriers should be easy prey to 40 battleships with minimal support). But the larger entity should, of course, have a huge advantage at chokepoints in the war. Smaller entities should have to band together to overcome raw numbers.
I find the issue more to be the increasingly common system where a small gang of as few as a single battleship, or as many as twenty are ambushed by a couple tacklers and a cyno ship while roaming, and the arriving carriers obliterate everything. A 5 man gang has very little chance against anything with carrier support. A conventional blob would have to navigate the gates, and their arrival would be delayed, so in this matter capital ships are both more mobile, and more efficient than a conventional fleet. And this is where more than a couple traditional ships begin to become superfluous. Defending a POS should be the cause of a fleet battle, and that's the sort of situation where one should expect carriers to shine, with large numbers on either side.
|
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 10:00:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sha4d13
Edited by: Sha4d13 on 29/01/2008 09:51:11
I think you need to get a grip.
This whole thread is a "hes more powerful than me because hes spent more time in game than me" whine.
Why on earth should a nub gang or alliance be able to see off a superior corp or alliance? The whole thrust of this thread is people without- trying to drag down those that have caps so they can get a "fair" fight.
Eve isnt about fair fights- its about power, strength and ability. If your enemy has bigger tougher ships and pilots- dont whine and ask for a nerf to help nyou catch up- learn, build, make allies.... Its the whole damned point of the game.
The idea that carriers "dominate" combat, or that other ships are worthelss is completely nonsensical.
Power, strength, and ability should not be determined by character age alone. Carriers do not currently dominate combat, but I take issue with them beginning to dominate small gang warfare, where they should not be present in the first place. The OP is not very agreeable, but it's the relevant issues with which I am concerned. I do not ask for a carrier nerf, but more limited deployment actions which would delay their arrival at the very least as long as it'd otherwise take a gang to form up and approach a target, giving the enemy a chance to disengage. Carriers should be fleet support ships, and their aid invaluable, but currently their mobility makes this aid available on a scale where it makes further combat all but impossible so long as they are present.
|
ry ry
StateCorp
The State
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 10:03:00 -
[77]
Edited by: ry ry on 29/01/2008 10:05:51
Originally by: Sha4d13
The point being anyone can speed level up to where he wants...
Try dealing with the topic in hand rather than making poor attempts at pedantry.
the issue at hand is that people are dropping multiple capships on 3 man t1 cruiser gangs. it has absolutely nothing to do with being able to powerlevel in warcraft.
personally, i think the mineral cost and build time of capships should be higher, reducing their numbers and making their deployment more of a risk, and the cost of cynoing considerably higher too making it financially inviable to drop them on every single roaming gang that comes along.
capital ships. not general purpose pwnmobiles.
[IMAGE REMOVED] |
yessir Icanboogie
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 10:11:00 -
[78]
Edited by: yessir Icanboogie on 29/01/2008 10:13:45
Admit my example is falling short/bit simplified. The point I made is still there in the post tho: How long time did you spend to sit in your ships? Not more than a month or two no matter ship size, including fittings. How long did you spend on your carrier/dread?
The compare that to what any other pre-capital ships can do vs multiple smaller opponents in comparison to a carrier. Take the low sec capital gankage as a more apropriate example: the previous motherships, or the carrier examples that been mentioned in the last few posts here. They're being used as extremely powerful and mobile pwnmobiles.
As I said before, they're not powerful enough to require a nerf. The poor balance is that pre-capitals you could always counter everything with numbers, even with low skillpoints and pure t1 fittings. Think we all know that the amount of t1 frigs to take down a battleship is nowhere near comparable with the amount of t1 cruisers you need to take down a capital.
Think of the Cold War. Think nuclear warheads. Say you have 4-5 superpowers with enough of those to make a power faction. Now put alot of smaller nations (corps/alliances) without those. How will the superpowers react when the smaller start to arm themsevles with those warheads? Get pets? Shoot them down? Force them obey? Look at recent events in EVE; DMC, KOS, we all know what is happening, it's quite obvious. Smaller alliances, even if they have numbers, can't match a bigger brother with warheads. (bad comparison again I know, RA/AAA are better organized, have experience, etc, but see the point I try to make).
The difference is that there was no warheads pre-capitals. Since the introduction of capitals, the diplomatic and powerblock side in EVE has grown really strong. You will have to turn to the stronger or succumb. That wasn't the case before, if you had a number of low-sp alliances with numbers (goons spring to mind, the t1 ships is not only a rumour, I know, I used to shoot them.. 50 t1 frigs vs a battleship and some cruisers was quite common). Try to do the same with t1 ships vs capitals today.
Too long post already, I'm horrible at making examples, but the point should've gone through. Capitals are changing EVE into a powerblock big-alliance fight where there's no space for smaller blocks to exist. Nor new players. We all have to obey the big brother or succumb. With no chance to fight back. Join alliance A or B, there's no C or D or E or even F.
Edit; Karyuudo is much better with the words, I rest my case and agree with whatever he's posting.
|
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 10:12:00 -
[79]
If you get ambushed by more ships and of a higher size category, you should go down. It's that simple.
Carriers are vulnerable in the very same way as all drone ships.
Fighters.
If you have more numbers or are just running around in nano ships, taking out the tacklers, than tackling the carriers and picking apart fighters one by one is not a problem.
This is very problematic for traditional battleships, however, since they cannot outrun fighters and don't have enough tanking ability to sustain their tank of even a single carrier. For remote rep gangs this is not an issue though, since they can concentrate repair very much like normal gangs concentrate fire.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
ry ry
StateCorp
The State
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 10:16:00 -
[80]
most pvp ships carry a point, so 'killing the tacklers' is easier said than done.
[IMAGE REMOVED] |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 10:29:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Laboratus
If you get ambushed by more ships and of a higher size category, you should go down. It's that simple.
Carriers are vulnerable in the very same way as all drone ships.
Fighters.
If you have more numbers or are just running around in nano ships, taking out the tacklers, than tackling the carriers and picking apart fighters one by one is not a problem.
This is very problematic for traditional battleships, however, since they cannot outrun fighters and don't have enough tanking ability to sustain their tank of even a single carrier. For remote rep gangs this is not an issue though, since they can concentrate repair very much like normal gangs concentrate fire.
Ah, but that is not the issue. It is the ease with which the bigger ships can be deployed that makes it impossible to escape them. Let me demonstrate what I mean by this by example. Kary and his two gang mates are in battleships looking for some fun in lowsec. They bump into an 11 man gang composed of only a single battleship, multiple battlecruisers, and a few dedicated tacklers with an EW ship as support. The fight looks pretty good, and they engage. Tacklers get a point on Kary and co, and someone drops a cyno. It doesn't matter which side gang composition and tactics are now fairly meaningless, this is now the turning point of the battle. Unlike conventional reinforcements, which even if sitting next door can be seen coming and take at least a minute to arrive, there is no warning. The carrier is just there. The fighters are meaningless, for either side fighting just the two carrier's fighters might be difficult, but it's certainly a viable tactical approach. No, the issue is now that whoever the carriers remote rep win. It could have been a single battleship vs 10. The carrier effectively determines the entire course of the battle by itself in an instant, and there is no warning prior to its arrival. In a fleet battle you have the numbers and composition to out dps the reps and shut down the carriers with EW, in a small gang situation you can't reasonably deal with the support it provides. The carrier simply isn't balanced with small gangs in mind.
Now, this isn't an issue with the carrier itself per se. The carrier is a fleet support ship, in larger battles it fits right in. The problem is that the carrier can be anywhere within a certain radius very, very quickly and that it renders any small gang not pulling the secret carrier cyno trick themselves completely screwed over. The mechanics of its arrival are what make this situation so simple and efficient. Capital ships should not be in small gang pvp.
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:08:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus
It's as Turin said numbers win the majority of the time. Until there is a reason to use smaller amounts of capitals and other ships there really is no downside to m0ar ships.
Eve needs reasons not to use cap ships and blobs. It's difficult to create a reason to use smaller ships/groups, because as long as something is important enough to attack, then it also important enough to defend. So long as that remains true, blobs and cap ships will be the norm.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
|
Frith Hai
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:16:00 -
[83]
"If history has taught us anything it is: he who has the most people wins the war. Barring that: he who spends more money wins the war. Barring that: he who has fewer people and funds fights with guerrilla warfare..
History has NOT taught that lesson. Technology has won many a war, as had superior military discipline. Superior technology is not equated with superior wealth, nor is military discipline.
|
Pantaloon McPants
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:19:00 -
[84]
Its a bit to late now for drastic measures like getting rid of them all together, but what they can do is make it easier for small gangs to take them down, they are easy to get into now but i doubt people can replace them constantly, ontop of that you make the build requirments longer/harder.
|
aevistyne
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:20:00 -
[85]
Edited by: aevistyne on 29/01/2008 11:24:48
posting in a flamebait thread!
Originally by: Cornette
Originally by: Alz Shado
How about a new HIC script: the Cyno Jammer.
I vote yes to that. Does not have to block a whole system, just the grid the hictor is at to stop people hot dropping moms and carriers on your head.
so signed.
Of all the ideas in this thread, this is the only one that i support, would make capital combat a lot more interesting, would prevent hotdropping of moms, carriers and titans on smaller gangs, they could still be called in as the big guns, but the other gang would have time to react and pull out before the caps get there, they should have more than a minute after the cyno goes up before the caps actually arrive on the scene, because the cap ships take so long to jump into system, align and warp.
Nerfing the firepower is not the answer, fighters should't be able to take out anything smaller than a BC with the mechanics the way they are currently, fighters are simply not fast enough.
Carriers roles were made more specialised in trinity when they took away our hauling abilities, the same change that make any changes to the fuel usage for jumping not viable, and don't even get me started on making you use fuel to recharge your cap.
I agree with the cyno jamming script for the same grid to prevent the hotdropping of caps, anything else suggested so far in this thread would be gamebreaking for a lot of pilots.
EDIT: To the person who said cruiser sized gangs can not kill carriers, look at some killboards before you go blindly posting, perhaps your gangs cant kill carriers, but a gang of t2 cruisers can quite easily kill a carrier without support, and recently a MS was killed by a gang of smaller than BS sized ships(though it did have a bit of an honor tank), if the carrier has support, then there is no reason that a carrier should be able to kill it, it makes no sense, they are fielding superior numbers and superior firepower, why shouldn't they win?
-------
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:23:00 -
[86]
Exactly, the trade-off with some capital ships is simply wrong. There is no reason NOT to drop a carrier or two into 95% of the fights out there, whether you're fighting ceptors or battleships.
The reason battleships are balanced is not just because 'everyone can fly one'. Another big reason is that its stupid to bring a BS to hunt down an interceptor gang. Bringing a carrier takes no effort and the cost is negligible.
Another issue is how long it takes to fly one. I'm not for instant gratification by any stretch, but what would you tell a new guy, just out of his trial period who goes into lowsec with his battlecruiser and gets hotdropped with a carrier or two? "Well, yeah, you can fly one of those. It takes at least a year to train for them properly and about 1.5 billion isk to outfit it properly, and you can't learn too many useful skills in between, like t2 large guns or a dictor or anything either. Oh and you need a second account with a cyno-alt to use em properly". I could very well imagine that guy thinking:"Screw you guys, I am going home".
The gap between battleships and carriers is still too big in my opinion. Nerfing capital ships is one option. Another would be to introduce tier 4 battleships. Double the armor of tier 3, a bit more grid etc. Then at least you can tell the new guy:"Well, a carrier is really good but takes a lot of time, better to go for the tier 4 battleship, much more bang for your buck".
That would be an alternative, though of course CCP really should still stop the building of more titans, those things will eventually ruin this game completely if alliances continue building more and more.
------------------------------------------------
|
Squatdog
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:58:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Mrtankk
My 10-man gang of pirate griefers can't compete with an alliance fleet fielding multiple capital ships and I'm going to post on an alt to cry about it
WAHHHHHH...WAHHHHHHHH...WAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
|
Drasked
North Face Force
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 11:59:00 -
[88]
Stargates > Capitals
|
Losmandy
VENOM72
Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 12:23:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Mrtankk
This game needs to have cap ships removed. It was a mistake to impliment them, it was a mistake to make them OP. It was a mistake to pretty much require them for 0.0 life.
EVE has suffered the same thing as all other MMO's. Stagflation of the economy, tons and tons and tons of ISK are in game now. Cap ships are more and more obtainable, cheaper, and easier to access for more and more people on a whole.
The idea in its self was a good one, but the implimentation was flawed. Caps are THE end game of EVE. Some will disagree with that statement im sure, but overall, the huge majority will not.
I hate trying to find a decent fleet fight, and having 20 carriers dropped on my 10 man gang.
Of course, you cannot fix the sympton without fixing the problem.
POS warfare. ********. STUPID. WORST GAME DESIGN EVER. Get rid of this garbage. The front lines of combat should be fluid. ever moving. swapping systems from hour to hour. You should be able to take a system in hours if your organized and co-ordinated enough. Not days. Or weeks.
None of this. OMG we need 20 dreads, 20 carriers, and 150+ support to go kill this POS!
Small group tactics! Why SHOULDNT a determined force or group of small people have a shot at holding space?
Anyhow. Remove the cap ships. Remove the skills, refund the SP. Let them respend. ( although to be honest. to be a jerk, I would rather see the skill points go POOF. Cause I hate cap ships so much, and by extention, the people who fly them. This would make most of them quit im sure. good riddence. )
Doh!!! and I just bought the Titan skill book..
|
Ghargon
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 13:08:00 -
[90]
I'd hot drop you just to be in the OPs list of hatred.
|
Wellard Geeza
Gallente
Pitbull Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 13:38:00 -
[91]
"You there! Move aside little man in the T1 Frigate and get the hell outta the path of my Carrier before I mow you down!
Long live capital ships! Removal from the game? What a ridiculous suggestion.
To the OP: There are those that will see a Bentley parked up and say 'hmm nice car - some day I'll own something like that'. Others will sneer at it as wasteful, ostentatious and vulgar and will call for such things to be banned. Horses for courses put simply. I, like other Capital pilots have worked damn hard to get that ship and the skills to use it properly, so CCP will never simply just remove them from the game - get real ffs.
If I kill you it's because the voices told me to. It's nothing personal. |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 19:44:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Daelorn
RAWL BACK TO CASTOR!!
signed
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 20:14:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Ulstan on 29/01/2008 20:16:00
What I *dont* like is the ability to drop a squad of capital ships ontop of a small gang fight.
I don't think capital ships need to be removed, I just don't think they should be the 'fast action response team'.
Right now they provide an interesting dynamic. If it ever came to a situation where fleets were comprised primarily of capitals rather than battleships, then I'd think we'd have a problem. As long as capital ships are vulnerable to smaller ships in some way (could be ewar, even) that requires them to have other non capital ships along to support them, I think things will be all right.
|
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 20:48:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
epic post
This is why these guys came this |--| close to winning EVE.
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device. |
Threv Echandari
Caldari
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 21:11:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Threv Echandari on 29/01/2008 21:12:15
Originally by: Akita T
Stagflation (i.e. stagnation combined with inflation) would mean people have less and less means to acquire money (i.e. unemployment or somesuch), and that accrued wealth in cash form is depreciating (i.e. prices RISE).
Since you have pointed out that "stuff" (including capitals) are getting cheaper, and that nobody really has a problem getting them... well... I see no stagnation, no inflation, and definetely no "stagflation" as you so put it.
Before spouting big words, you might want to research their meaning next time, and see if the meaning fits the situation you are trying to describe.
pwned.....hard
|
Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
Dark Matter Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 21:17:00 -
[96]
Sounds like someone can't handle a sandbox environment. Players control who gets what in eve, if you want to hold space, you need to be able to fight off enemies.
Even if there weren't cap ships, your small corp would get rolled by large corps with t2 ships. What's next? Cap the number of players in a system?
_______________________________________________
Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 21:18:00 -
[97]
You guys need to get off of this 'I can't beat it so it needs nerfing' kick.
The suggestions here are outrageous responses to the fact that a Capital can Cyno around. Get used to it... us Cap Pilots had to get used to not using gates. Many complaints are just pure ignorance. For example, someone suggested taking a Carrier against a group of Interceptors? Excuse me, but a Carrier has ZERO chance of actually killing any interceptor - they are simply to fast. Yet you don't hear me crying 'Nerf Speed'. (Well, not in this thread anyway)
Whenever Carrier pilots complain about things like 'I get scrambled too easily' or 'How can one frig keep me from locking anything' the forum response is always 'Don't fly a carrier alone'. Having lost 2 Carriers and a Dread to small gangs now, I know just how easily they die. I suggest you adapt your strategies. Its easy enough to bait/trap/kill Carriers - so much so that you'll find many FC's reluctant to include them in their gangs.
The only issue of substance in this thread is the Remote Repping Spider Tank. I fully admit that tactic is difficult/impossible to beat. Yet CCP don't think that is a problem - in fact encourages it as the Carrier's 'intended role'!
|
000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
VENOM Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.29 21:56:00 -
[98]
Hm removing capships? ok? ccp can i please have my several million sp i invested in capships please transferred to other skills? kthnx.
Oh.. and while ur at it, please can i have my time invested in it refunded in isk?
Ermm.. to the op... NO, now go play something else if u don't like it.
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
|
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 05:19:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
Originally by: Karlemgne
Edited by: Karlemgne on 28/01/2008 20:04:59
Originally by: nether void
Omfg, noob. Eve is a game where you are supposed to play like me and my buddies in giant 0.0 alliances. If you aren't willing to play the game exactly how I do, and make yourself a nameless drone in a large corp who is part of a large alliance, then STFU. Some of us treat this game like a real job, and you should too. If you aren't willing to play the game the way WE do and spend 8 hours a day online, being bossed around, and grinding so you can fly capital ships yourself go play wow.
Which by-the-way I used to play and was a member of big raiding guild. I told the noobs that weren't in raiding guilds that they shouldn't ask Blizzard to fix the game so they could enjoy it too. Everyone know that MMOs are about being bossed around on Vent or TS and spending 6 hours a day running high-end content. Everyone and everything else is pointless.
That's basically what I got out of your post.
-Karlemgne
I'm sitting here trying to think of a way to appropriately complement you on your post. I can't find the words. simply a work of art ;)
Why thank you. I knew that advanced forum warfare to 5 would payoff someday.
Cheers,
-Karlemgne
|
Myrdyr
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 14:38:00 -
[100]
Take out insurance for capitals and you fix the capital problem.
Please post constructively. ~Saint |
Kerfira
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 15:02:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Kerfira on 30/01/2008 15:02:59
Originally by: Myrdyr
Take out insurance for capitals and you fix the capital problem.
Many cap pilots don't insure their ships because on the grand scale of things they rarely die.
A better idea would be to remove insurance on 0.0 completely. Major ISK faucet stopped right there 
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
Sephra Star
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 15:43:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Sephra Star on 30/01/2008 15:45:45
All CCP needs to do is have the JOVE EMPIRE declare War on any one who owns, or is a member of a Corporation/Alliance who has someone in it that owns a Mother Ship, or a Titan.
Then allow CCP employees to hunt them down for fun in some UBER Crazy Powerful JOVE ship.
JUSTIFICATION : The Jovian High Council has decided that their little brother cousins are getting too powerful and need to be put back in their place.
That would allow the people who want to have such ships to get/keep them, but at a cost far greater than meer ISK. They would become the Prey themselves and will make people think twice about aquiring such ships.
The fact that only a real live CCP employee could involve themself in a hunt would actually be a limiting factor, but an interesting one.
Heck I might one day buy one just to have a shot at bragging rights to be able to say "I got Podded by a Jovian".
|
Conrad Rock
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 17:14:00 -
[103]
All CCP needs to do is not read this thread.
|
Turin
Caldari
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 18:17:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon
Sounds like someone can't handle a sandbox environment. Players control who gets what in eve, if you want to hold space, you need to be able to fight off enemies.
Even if there weren't cap ships, your small corp would get rolled by large corps with t2 ships. What's next? Cap the number of players in a system?
Possibly, but not for reasons of fairness. Reasons of LAG enter my mind. It is, given the current environment, the ONLY way to solve the lag issues.
_________________________________
|
evriss
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 18:29:00 -
[105]
I dont really have a problem with CAP ships, i do however have a problem with the use of CERTAIN cap ships, mainly the carrier, its alrgly turning in to everymans hot drop tool and this is kinda fine in 0.0 but in low sec where small corps fight it out, its less good.
tbh, dreads i have no issue with, titans i am not really qualifyed to say.
with carriers, i have no issue with the amount of fighters, but if it was up to me, carriers would not be allowed to deploy the fighters for 60 seconds after arriving via cyno, this way they cant be used as a hot drop get out of jail free card that so many of the smaller org's use them as, they would have to be used tactically, and properly.
Evriss/NeoTheo/Sticky
|
Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 18:36:00 -
[106]
Originally by: evriss
with carriers, i have no issue with the amount of fighters, but if it was up to me, carriers would not be allowed to deploy the fighters for 60 seconds after arriving via cyno....
That is a reasonable suggestion, actually.
In real life (yeah, I know it's stupid to compare the game with IRL, but for the sake of it having a precedent), and even in other space games (Wing Commander springs to mind), it takes time to launch fighters, though drone fighters would obviously be faster.
IIRC, all a mom pilot has to do is right-click their wad of fighters and click to deploy them all into space instantly.
________________
|
major lulz11
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 18:48:00 -
[107]
Oh wait, If CAPS are gone, then it'll be Battleships Online.
Lets Remove these as well.
Oh wait, If BattleShips are Gone, it'll be Commandships Online.
Lets Remove these as well.
Oh wait, If CommandShips are Gone, It'll be Next biggest Ship Online.
Lets make this Pods Online ok?
Shut the **** up.
|
major lulz11
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 18:51:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn
That is a reasonable suggestion, actually.
In real life (yeah, I know it's stupid to compare the game with IRL, but for the sake of it having a precedent), and even in other space games (Wing Commander springs to mind), it takes time to launch fighters, though drone fighters would obviously be faster.
IIRC, all a mom pilot has to do is right-click their wad of fighters and click to deploy them all into space instantly.
Um you're going to compair Jump driving a Capital ship to a Aircraft carrier?
Have you ever seen Battle Star Galactica?
Thats an Exact mirror of just how a MOM or Carrier deploys all its fighters at once.
At this point its better to sound like a nerd then a complete ******.
Sorry but its true.
|
Admiral Annihilation
Ganja Labs
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 18:52:00 -
[109]
After we get capships removed from eve, lets all go play WoW and demand all level 70's to be banned.
Then we can go play guild wars and complain about the expensive items we can't have.
After that we can play super mario brothers 3 and demand koopa be nerfed.
WE CAN DO THIS!
-------------------------------------
|
Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 19:02:00 -
[110]
Everything looks easy when you're not the one doing it. To you, it looks like 'just click a button and deploy all your Fighters.'
To me, its more like:
1> Cyno'd in...ok... is this a trap that I'm gonna be flammed for taking my ship to a gate for later?
2> Start picking targets. Better not pick anything small or I'll just be useless.
3> Anyone SmartBombing, any Stealth Bombers dropping bombs, anyone got me Jammed/Dampened/Scrambled yet?
4> Launch Drones or Fighters?
5> How is the Lag?
6> Are my Fighters off chasing a Vagabond that just warps around killing them? Damm, I wish I could see their damage when they're in Distant Space? Should I recall them?
7> Oh, my Fighters killed someone. Gotta order them to attack someone else now...
8> Gee, lag getting bad. Maybee I should switch to Drones cuz they will auto-target and don't fly off chasing someone into a POS shield.
9> Great.. someone targeting my Fighters. No lock on me, so I don't know who is doing it. Do I recall them all or just lose 15 mill every 20 seconds or so?
10> Well, I hope that guy didn't want his Megathron, cuz the sensor damps/jamming have prevented me from Remote Repping him. Too bad.. I got the module and the Cap, but that Uber T1 Jamming Frigate is just too much for my poor Carrier to overcome.
11> We damm well better win this fight, cuz if the order comes to bail there's no way in Hell I'm gonna ever get this thing into warp. Oh, don't have to worry about that - I forgot I'm permascrambled by that T1 Uber Frig of Doom.
12> Man, these Carriers can tank pretty well. Too bad its now meaningless, cuz once my gang died its just a matter of time.
13> I wonder if everyone will flame me more if I stay and die or if I log off? Might live if I log off. Where's a Shrike-requested 'accidental Node Crash' when you need one?
14> Hmm. Too bad it wasn't insured. Oh well, I can maybee sc*****up enough for another. But that one is gonna sit at a POS and delegate fighters next time.
15> Man...sitting at a POS while my Allies die in an epic fight is both Boring and Cowardly at the same time. Time to turn down the volume on TS... the screams are getting to me.
16> Hey... its all gone quiet and I only lost 150 mill in Fighters this time to idiots who let them get stuck on POS shields. Time to dip back behind the shields.
17> Well what do you know! I've actually got the skills to fly one of those Uber Frigate thingies! Well, next time I might try it and actually have some fun.
|
Ursula LeGuinn
Versus Gloria Omnis
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 19:06:00 -
[111]
Originally by: major lulz11
At this point its better to sound like a nerd then a complete ******.
Sorry but its true.
I said there was a precedent for it, not that there weren't any alternative sci-fi genres where fighters deploy instantly.
Why I'm replying to an obvious troll alt, I don't know, but whoever you are, you're a dumbass who needs to beef up their reading comprehension skills and quit taking things out of context.
________________
|
Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 19:11:00 -
[112]
Any one play swg?
Remember the Jedi?
Remember the "hard" work (grind)
Any one play Eve online?
Remember the capitalships?
Remember the "hard" work (grind)
|
Brachis
Caldari
The Commissum
|
Posted - 2008.01.30 19:16:00 -
[113]
If Capitals are so easy to get, why do people keep complaining about getting attacked by them?
If they're so easy to get, why does everyone have them except you? And why are people complaining about "Oh, me and my four buddies got jumped by 15 capitals!"... uhh, hate to break it to you, but I'm fairly certain that your odds aren't much better against 15 ships of any kind when there are only five of you.
Maybe this topic should be changed to "Nerf the blobbers", because that's all I'm hearing.
"I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor." |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |