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Valei Khurelem 312	Posted - 2012.02.14 06:38:00 - [91] - Quote Quote: 39k online says that EVE is a niche product. No, 39k online with how much was it last announcement? 200,000 subscribers? ( correct me if I'm wrong on that number but that's the last report I remember ) Says this is an unpopular game, if CCP had devoted themselves to this type of game and making EVE as good as it can be rather than going for get rich quick schemes or pissing away their time on unknown MMORPGs and games they'd have far more people playing than people just subscribing. I judge a game's success not by how many sales they make but by whether they're still playing it years later, the numbers actually being active in this game have gone up and down over the years but it still remains pretty low compared to the amount of subscribers there are. There should be 200,000 players lagging this server up daily and causing queues to show me this is a popular game people enjoy, but that just isn't happening, even on the weekends and those are the facts, if this game was so awesome then why are their so many accounts just sitting about being unused? "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 980	Posted - 2012.02.14 06:45:00 - [92] - Quote EVE is dying..... still..... When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point. Also, I can kill you with my brain.
FeralShadow Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O. 50	Posted - 2012.02.14 07:12:00 - [93] - Quote I'm a casual player, and I pvp for the social aspects of the game. Nothing I like more than logging in, go chatting and joking with some buds, and blow up some people. So you can't say that casuals all act the same way you do :)
Xen Solarus Inner 5phere 15	Posted - 2012.02.14 08:08:00 - [94] - Quote As a wise player once said, the forums are full of dicks! They certainly shouldn't be taken as the opinion of eve. But on the most part i agree. Where-as people that truely love eve should do everything in their power to improve and expand its playerbase, most pvp players seem set upon paths that achieve the opposite of that. Mostly so they can all farm wonderful tears. I don't think they can ever understand that some people just want to sit in empire doing all the things they've labled as boring, almost to the point where they feel they are justified in doing whatever they like to them as a result. Eve is great [because/i] of its diversity. Personally i think that empire should be a safe place where newer players can start the journey on the epic learning curve without risk of random death. Though it seems that war has been declared on the players of high-sec. This does [i]not encourage them to leave, as in time they should do, and so in general griefers are harming eve's full potential. Though these forums aren't likely the best place to view such opinions, as you're likely just to bring a rain of trolls and griefers upon you. ....and no, i don't live in high-sec. Just have plenty of friends that do. And if they want to mine for hours (Boring), or do loads of missions (so boring), or make spreadsheets for the things they make with their "free" minerals (omg so boring), then i say we let them! Everyone gets from eve what they want! Thats why its so awesome!
Lexmana Imperial Stout 207	Posted - 2012.02.14 08:15:00 - [95] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: There should be 200,000 players lagging this server up daily and causing queues to show me this is a popular game people enjoy, but that just isn't happening, even on the weekends and those are the facts, if this game was so awesome then why are their so many accounts just sitting about being unused? For the same reason not everyone is riding a Ferrari you stupid.
knobber Jobbler Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn 30	Posted - 2012.02.14 08:39:00 - [96] - Quote 2bhammered wrote: Razin wrote: Hunng Ibruin wrote: I've started following the forums lately and I've come to a few conclusions regarding the eve community of the forums and elsewhere. They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it. I have yet to see any proof that f2p model could have any hope of exceeding or even approaching the current subscription model in revenue amount. Where are the numbers? Also, eve is dieing. http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/22/dc-universe-online-700-increase-in-daily-revenue-since-going-free-to-play/ Who knows? Also League of Legends which is F2P is the most played online game and their revenue is massive. Hence why DOTA 2 is most likely becoming Valves most expensive and invested project ever etc. Dc universe online didn't have any customers to begin with. Most of the subscription games which have gone free to play have been near deaths door and for the most part are not as complex as eve. It all needs to be put in context. Look at city of heroes; it had been selling items for years and not just vanity items either. It also had very few players to complain and no in game economy or any real pvp system to break. League of legends was always designed as f2p. World of tanks is pay to win/premium. Guildwars was a simple game (a good one though!) done on the cheap supported by a vanity and merch store. Eve is just not easily transformed into a different payment model.
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 197	Posted - 2012.02.14 09:45:00 - [97] - Quote Hunng Ibruin wrote: I've started following the forums lately and I've come to a few conclusions regarding the eve community of the forums and elsewhere. I've been on these forums for a year, and what you claim to be reality is exactly hyperbole, and nothing more than your very narrow subjective point of view. EVE community consists mostly of rather intelligent, helpful people in my experience, who on the other hand do not hesitate to troll when given a chance. There are two topics (that include all your points) that will surely bring the trolls like moths to a flame: - increasing hisec security - imbalance of risk vs reward Why trolling? Because people who have played this game for years are TIRED of new players whining for more security, and disrespecting the prevailing playstyle as something that needs to be changed. 100% security simply is not what this game is about, 100% insecurity is. We don't understand what is so difficult about this to understand. As what comes to the "facts" you listed, I've never read a single serious post stating anything like what you described. People don't want to drive miners out of game, some people just like easy kills and have found ways to make profit out of ganking miners. Most players don't have huge respect for suicide gankers, but accept it as a part of the game. People certainly don't want industrialists out of game, I don't have any idea where you pulled that from. People don't want Incursion runners out of the game, but the rewards need to be balanced. Some Incursion runners have acted like asshats, and tarnished the reputation of all Incursion runners. People don't want WH dwelllers out of their holes, ABC nerf was suggested for risk/reward reasons by someone not exactly familiar with WH life, and that suggestion never took off in any serious way. But in one point you are correct- people do want carebears out of EVE. In this context "carebear" is a person who wants to change the game rules to protect him/her, instead of using the existing game mechanics to protect himself. Quote: This community is incredibly self-destructive and loathsome. If it isn't in your hands it deserves to be blown up/stolen/griefed/etc. until the person who has it gives up. War decks, can flipping, suicide, gatecamps, theft are all tools to accomplish this goal. In the end you post for the "tears" and could care less how the other person feels or if they leave the game; in-fact most of you will cheer even louder if you cause someone to quit the game. In my opinion the virtual universe of New Eden is a dangerous, hostile place. I enjoy overcoming the risks, outwitting and outgunning opponents who will use any means available to stop me. Quote: I'm not calling anyone out nor making a judgment pass. I do not intend to offend and my tone isn't one of accusation but just clam reflection. If you think I am wrong in my assessment please discuss why. I am hopeful we can maybe do some self assessment as a community. However, I am also a realist and know what will occur instead. Still you did exactly that, laid judgment and used hyperboles and in an accusative tone. On a personal note I'm not perfectly comfortable with the fact that you also represent our alliance with that OP.
Valei Khurelem 314	Posted - 2012.02.14 09:46:00 - [98] - Quote Quote: On a personal note I'm not perfectly comfortable with the fact that you also represent our alliance with that OP. So being in a corporation means you're not allowed to have an opinion of you're own on a game forum? Sure does explain a lot. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 197	Posted - 2012.02.14 09:53:00 - [99] - Quote If you stopped to read and made an effort to comprehend, you would perhaps realize that I only expressed my personal opinion about him posting stuff like that. I'm not in any position to deny him anything, and wouldn't deny even if I was. We are freelancers, and as such I'm also free to remark that I'm not happy to see our alliance connected with such opinions.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 781	Posted - 2012.02.14 10:02:00 - [100] - Quote Hunng Ibruin wrote: Now we must add some more reality to this: EVE subs are stagnant at best, this is no longer a growth title. You're wrong. You're so wrong that the Euro population is up 11% since the last patch, the US population is up 17% and the AUS TZ is up 45% (at an all time high in fact). Of course, its easy to post good patch over patch numbers when your last patch was an epic failure, but this one's doing damn well. :) -Liang Sources: - http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4i - http://bit.ly/z55dg6 Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Brainless Bimbo Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.02.14 10:32:00 - [101] - Quote OP poor troll... well i hope he troll as the depth of his intelectual capabilities is literally saucer deep. CCP doesn-¦t need growth as envisioned by OP and his ilk, in fact such growth would kill eve because of the technicial limitations, i.e. its one cluster, get too many ppl in and its laged to death, even with TiDi it would in places become unplayable. CCP model is fine, they tried to change it and got smacked (and butt hurt) by the player base, its a game made by griefers for griefers if the OP would spend the time to learn eve-¦s history. When (and if) OP grows up he may realsise that bigger isn-¦t better in most cases, ayn rand is a tard, and his life is pointless in the great scheme of things.
JitaPriceChecker2 State War Academy Caldari State 16	Posted - 2012.02.14 10:33:00 - [102] - Quote Roime wrote: Why trolling? Because people who have played this game for years are TIRED of new players whining for more security, and disrespecting the prevailing playstyle as something that needs to be changed. 100% security simply is not what this game is about, 100% insecurity is. We don't understand what is so difficult about this to understand. This I am indeed tired of whiners like OP. Roime wrote: But in one point you are correct- people do want carebears out of EVE. In this context "carebear" is a person who wants to change the game rules to protect him/her, instead of using the existing game mechanics to protect himself. Oh and this also. There is already plenty of mechanics that allows to avoid death in 95% of cases when you use your brain, something that OP lacks apparently.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 209	Posted - 2012.02.14 10:43:00 - [103] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Hunng Ibruin wrote: Now we must add some more reality to this: EVE subs are stagnant at best, this is no longer a growth title. You're wrong. You're so wrong that the Euro population is up 11% since the last patch, the US population is up 17% and the AUS TZ is up 45% (at an all time high in fact). Of course, its easy to post good patch over patch numbers when your last patch was an epic failure, but this one's doing damn well. :) -Liang Sources: - http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4i - http://bit.ly/z55dg6 Damn nice work! And good numbers too.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 781	Posted - 2012.02.14 10:44:00 - [104] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Quote: 39k online says that EVE is a niche product. No, 39k online with how much was it last announcement? 200,000 subscribers? According to these articles[1][2] your average SWTOR server can expect to have somewhere between 1400 and 2700 people. This includes both the shards and the "sharded zones" that have different people running on the same map. Thus, we could say (for example) that 39k people online is the equivalent of 14 and 27 servers. Split the difference and call it 21. So lets assume that SWTOR is representative of all sharded MMOs and note that Rift has 16 US TZ servers and 18 EU TZ servers[3]. Noting that only one of those server sets really comes into play at a time, we can safely say that on average that Eve has ~15% more people playing than Rift does. Now, one might argue that its terrible if Eve is merely as popular as Rift - afterall, Rift just went half free to play! However, the situations are quite distinct. Consider: - Eve has long since been turning a profit, and is continuing to turn quite a pretty penny in profit. Enough to outright pay for the development of at least one extra game. - Eve's sub graph doesn't look like Rift's[4]. - Eve's sub graph has a high correlation to its population graph. Consider the server metrics [5][6] as well. Basically: while 39k seems like its "really low"... its actually not. -Liang [1] http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-03-swtor-has-350-000-peak-concurrent-users-report [2] http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=240117 [3] http://www.riftstatus.com/ [4] http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png [5] http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-4i [6] http://bit.ly/z55dg6 Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
TheGunslinger42 Bite me inc. Exhale. 16	Posted - 2012.02.14 10:49:00 - [105] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions. And you, according to your sig, are running for CSM? Lmao.
Gordon Fell Acura Tech 2	Posted - 2012.02.14 11:08:00 - [106] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: ... Oh dear. Facts, arguments, CITATIONS?! (seems a lot of effort to whack the obvious troll)
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 782	Posted - 2012.02.14 11:10:00 - [107] - Quote Gordon Fell wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: ... Oh dear. Facts, arguments, CITATIONS?! (seems a lot of effort to whack the obvious troll) Meh, once I got started on the rant I decided to make it a blog post. ;-) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Ptraci StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound. 322	Posted - 2012.02.14 11:19:00 - [108] - Quote Hunng Ibruin wrote: They all state their steadfast hatred against free to play and the revenue model that accompanies it. PLEX is not free to play. PLEX is "I get YOU to pay for MY account". Hunng Ibruin wrote: especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds. I love the smell of butt-hurt in the morning. You realize that gate-camps can be avoided right? Most of the heavily camped systems are well known. Then CCP gave you an F10 button, a map that updates every 5 minutes or so, and statistics about pod kills, pilots in space, etc. Instead of whining about gate-camps how about innovating? I regularly run the gate-camps into null-sec, sometimes several times a day. I rarely get caught. And when I do it's fair enough, it means they had the skill to catch me. Hunng Ibruin wrote: Most of them hate everyone else who don't play the game exactly as they want them to play the game. If you consider that many players are carebear miners/mission runners who don't affect other people's play-styles, and many other players are nullsec dwellers who really won't touch you provided you stay out of their systems, I would say that it's a very small minority that want to force you into becoming a victim. Perhaps you're just so used to being a victim that you think everyone is out to get you. We're not. Hunng Ibruin wrote: They will flame and outright personally attack anyone who doesn't agree with them or suggest some change that they don't agree with, civil discussion is outright impossible with most of this community. Welcome to the internet. Remember you have to pay your ISP every month it's not free. Hunng Ibruin wrote: Carebears must die and be driven from the game; miners must die and be driven from the game; industrialist must die and be driven from the game; incursion runners must die and be driven from the game; wormhole dwellers must die and be driven out of their hole and also want the game changed to remove ABC because....they want to control it themselves elsewhere. You've been listening to the goons too much. Goons =/= all of EVE. Most of us don't give a crap about carebears because we know that carebears will a) get bored and leave the game or b) figure out on their own sooner or later that there is more to EVE than carebearing - usually around the time they start maxxing out their industrial/mining skills and start training other things and realize that pvp becomes much easier when you can fit ships properly. I won't comment on the rest of your comment - it's your opinion and you're entitled to it even if I don't agree.
Dai DIEDIEDIE Arena Space Fight Corp 13	Posted - 2012.02.14 12:18:00 - [109] - Quote Sisohiv wrote: Dai DIEDIEDIE wrote: Sisohiv wrote: Will it all kill EVE in the end? I hope so. It deserves it. Reap what you sow. I hate to break it to you bud, but Eve has been running for 8 years and is still trucking. It was here a long time before you started playing and will still be here long after you have left to play pandas with Mr T and Chuck Norris. I hate to break it to you but I pointed that out twice already. Too bad you can't read. Even when I pointed it out a few lines before your shoddy attempt to hack and drag it out of context, troll boy. Sisohiv wrote: Again, the game is 8 years old. CCP support the pew pew bears, they support the null bears. They have for 8 years. it's not a friendly game for Industrial alts. Its not a friendly game period. Its about meta wars, Alt wars, shanking people and if you see it any other way, you are just another victim getting in line. Will it all kill EVE in the end? I hope so. It deserves it. Reap what you sow. 8 years and still trucking despite being 'not friendly'. You can 'hope' that Eve will die because of it's 'unfriendly' nature but it won't. You can 'hope' that CCP stop catering for PvPers and alliances but they won't. You can roll as many cry baby alts to bash CCP and troll people as you want but it won't make the blindest bit of difference. You sound v angry about something, why don't you tell us what it is? ps are you that battleclinic guy?
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 981	Posted - 2012.02.14 16:03:00 - [110] - Quote Obviously these folks have a point. Why play EVE when you can play a much nicer game where you only murder, assasinate, rob, gank, elimanate NPC's... cause that makes such activities a much friendlier experience. Or if your bloodlust demands that you victimize another player, that poor fellow should immediately respawn with all of their equipment intact. Only in this way can you have a proper game that is fair to everyone regardless of their personal skills. That way everyone is a winner, every single player is the best there is... at everything. What a wonderful game that would be. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point. Also, I can kill you with my brain.
Cipher Jones 301	Posted - 2012.02.14 16:22:00 - [111] - Quote If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you. Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak. The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people. Mark Twain wrote: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Micheal Dietrich Standards and Practices 67	Posted - 2012.02.14 16:27:00 - [112] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you. Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak. The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people. Mark Twain wrote: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Show me where the peak is Edit: Click on the 150k link on that page, to the left. No, your other left.
Cipher Jones 301	Posted - 2012.02.14 16:59:00 - [113] - Quote Micheal Dietrich wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you. Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak. The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people. Mark Twain wrote: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Show me where the peak is Edit: Click on the 150k link on that page, to the left. No, your other left. Show me where the chart is. That's "subscriptions", and CCP has not released subscription numbers in quite some time. Those numbers were published in October of last year and were released prior to that. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 784	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:00:00 - [114] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people. I actually do log on to the server and I can say that the server feels much more active in the last couple of months. Oddly enough, that tallies exactly with the data from eve-offline...... ! Mark Twain wrote: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Indeed. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman Loud On The Forums Silent In Game 60	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:09:00 - [115] - Quote "Kids, if you don't eat your vegetables the boogey man will get you." An ill conceived attempt by the OP to scare the players into playing the game the way he thinks it should be played.
Micheal Dietrich Standards and Practices 68	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:11:00 - [116] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Micheal Dietrich wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: If you have numbers that somehow say "subs are up" without CCP publishing them more power to you. Less players play on the tranquility server now than at its peak. The people who actually log onto the server and monitor its activity while they play know there are less people. Mark Twain wrote: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Show me where the peak is Edit: Click on the 150k link on that page, to the left. No, your other left. Show me where the chart is. That's "subscriptions", and CCP has not released subscription numbers in quite some time. Those numbers were published in October of last year and were released prior to that. If you have a more accurate chart that defies mine please feel free to show it. My chart has info up until mid 2011 which to me is pretty good (as is shows the drop we had with Incarna). The guy has been holding off on the next update because he wants SWTOR in there as well. And yes, he says subscriptions and you will find his reason why, which I happen to agree with and is exactly what we need to look at in Eve's case. So, show me where the peak is.
Ioci Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 75	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:19:00 - [117] - Quote free play EVE isn't an option because of the real time skills system. Shadow training was killed because people figured out they could kill 3 months of Sub by logging out with a long skill. imagine free and freemium, where I can skill up an alt for free, then export it to a freemium, subscribed account. If EVE is going to die, free is not going to save it. Only a better game.
Cipher Jones 301	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:20:00 - [118] - Quote Your chart is about subscribers. My post says less people are on tranquility. Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying. Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it. If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Micheal Dietrich Standards and Practices 69	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:33:00 - [119] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Your chart is about subscribers. My post says less people are on tranquility. Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying. Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it. If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. I can't contradict the fewer players claim because I don't see players in game, I see ships that belong to subscriptions. There is no way I can tell you if 10 mining barges huddled together is ten people, or one person, and I know you can't do the same. This is why we based numbers on subscriptions. Regardless of who owns what subscription it still counts as a purchased account. CCP aint got no buy one get one free deal here. Hence, the chart that I use is providing good data as it has with every game I look after. Personally he has been the best source for me for years as he gets his information from multiple sources and verifies it as best as he can. By the way, I am surprised that you are able to cover some 5000 systems every night and personally make a head count in each one. As for the rest, well, lets just say I'm not surprised. I knew you were going to find any reason to discredit any data shown to you and that you wouldn't be able to back any of your own claims up other than 'I saw less people in x system, game is dying'.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 981	Posted - 2012.02.14 17:37:00 - [120] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Your chart is about subscribers. My post says less people are on tranquility. Your chart in now way shape or form demerits what I am saying. Your information is > 6 months old, and therefore inaccurate. I am not saying I posted numbers. I am saying I observed it. If you could post something that contradicts my observation I would love to see it. No chart based on subscription numbers will ever disprove what I am saying, which is that less people log onto the server nowadays. Unless your point is that "although more people are subscribing (and CCP revenue increases), fewer seem to be on at peak times), I would say his point is entirely relevant. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point. Also, I can kill you with my brain.

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