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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Tagera
Unity Systems Engineering
The Dog Pound
37
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Posted - 2012.02.13 16:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Those 32million players are not on an mmo. It's at best a lobby game with instanced combat arenas. Which at the max can hold 12 people playing at once in one fight. And their actions on there mean nothing to the game as a whole. They can't set prices, make anything or effect the market in anyway. It's a buy character. Fight, earn in game money or buy off cash shop and fight some more game.
2bhammered wrote:Lexmana wrote:2bhammered wrote:Also League of Legends which is F2P is the most played online game and their revenue is massive. Hence why DOTA 2 is most likely becoming Valves most expensive and invested project ever etc. Apples and pears. A FTP model would not work well in CCPs single shard universe. The revenue per players is way too low in FTP games. League of Legends has about 15 million players and they generate a revenue of 25-50 million USD. That is about $3 per year for every player. Imagine the EVE cluster with 15 million players paying $3/year and they would generate about the same revenue as the current model with 300k subs for about $150/year. SFPT will generate about as much revenue with 15million players as EVE do now with 300k players. Do you honestly believe that EVE would benefit from such a model? Would you play EvE then? http://www.businessinsider.com/digital-100#51-riot-games-51 Last I heard LoL had over 32 million players with more revenue than you quote. Problem is of course if EVE can work an F2P model because of their game design with a single server but also the expenses for that kind of server. So it might now be feasible, however, it could be something down the pipeline when too few people play the game to keep it alive for awhile longer. Most likely they will make their next big MMO F2P or B2P or CCP and EVE will cover a certain niche? Hmm, in anyway, I appreciate this most interesting discussion that could easily just have been derailed because of the terrible OP.
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Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
586
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Eve is already FTP for some.
EVE won't succed as "real" f2p game
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2bhammered
Perkone
Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:2bhammered wrote:Last I heard LoL had over 32 million players with more revenue than you quote.
Problem is of course if EVE can work an F2P model because of their game design with a single server but also the expenses for that kind of server.
So it might now be feasible, however, it could be something down the pipeline when too few people play the game to keep it alive for awhile longer.
Most likely they will make their next big MMO F2P or B2P or CCP and EVE will cover a certain niche? Hmm, in anyway, I appreciate this most interesting discussion that could easily just have been derailed because of the terrible OP. FTP needs about 10-100 times more players to bring in the same profit that EvE currently does by subscription. These players don't care about forming long term social relationships because well they just play (for free) for a while and the move on to then next FOTM FTP game. It is a horrible idea for EVE where long term engagement is key to build anything in the sandbox. Imagine how EVE would be like with millions of players that don't care much about the future and are only in it for the instant gratification fix. Do you think such game will thrive or even survive?
That is not true at all, that is your estimate fine, but there has been MMORPG's that make more money per month as FTP than they did with a subscription. You do realize some people spend 100's of dollars per month in F2P games instead of the usual 15 dollars, true story!
Also on your last point, an F2P well made creates a community that does care, LoL again proves this to be fact.
To give an example, Valve made more money of Team Fortress 2 as a free to play game with a cash shop than they did selling copies after the release period. |
2bhammered
Perkone
Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tagera wrote:Those 32million players are not on an mmo. It's at best a lobby game with instanced combat arenas. Which at the max can hold 12 people playing at once in one fight. And their actions on there mean nothing to the game as a whole. They can't set prices, make anything or effect the market in anyway. It's a buy character. Fight, earn in game money or buy off cash shop and fight some more game. 2bhammered wrote:Lexmana wrote:2bhammered wrote:Also League of Legends which is F2P is the most played online game and their revenue is massive. Hence why DOTA 2 is most likely becoming Valves most expensive and invested project ever etc. Apples and pears. A FTP model would not work well in CCPs single shard universe. The revenue per players is way too low in FTP games. League of Legends has about 15 million players and they generate a revenue of 25-50 million USD. That is about $3 per year for every player. Imagine the EVE cluster with 15 million players paying $3/year and they would generate about the same revenue as the current model with 300k subs for about $150/year. SFPT will generate about as much revenue with 15million players as EVE do now with 300k players. Do you honestly believe that EVE would benefit from such a model? Would you play EvE then? http://www.businessinsider.com/digital-100#51-riot-games-51 Last I heard LoL had over 32 million players with more revenue than you quote. Problem is of course if EVE can work an F2P model because of their game design with a single server but also the expenses for that kind of server. So it might now be feasible, however, it could be something down the pipeline when too few people play the game to keep it alive for awhile longer. Most likely they will make their next big MMO F2P or B2P or CCP and EVE will cover a certain niche? Hmm, in anyway, I appreciate this most interesting discussion that could easily just have been derailed because of the terrible OP.
EVE has a cash shop, it is called buying PLEX, ISK is the number one resources more so than skills or levels, so bye to that argument (buy plex, buy character=weee.)
As for community, SWToR charges subscription, its community is the worst I have seen in my life, period. That game is also pretty much a lobby game with all instancing and small battlegrounds etc.
Now you can have a successful F2P MMORPG that is truly open world. If you did not know this I suggest using google. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
348
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:my tone isn't one of accusation but just clam reflection.
Your unvalidated bleating is as well thought out as a clam might, so QFT.
http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
Valei Khurelem
305
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Mag's wrote:Eve is already FTP for some. EVE won't succed as "real" f2p game
Considering players are dumb enough to pay real money for ISK and purchase characters already I'd say it would do far better than most people would think.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Kuroi Aurgnet
Guilt Brigade
Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers
8
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
eh, the only problem i see with this game is the fact they are taking AWAY some freedoms. Given, I believe High security should stay completely safe because thats why it exists, otherwise the security system would be virtually useless. as for the community: I've been in several communities before and in all honesty, eve actually has the best community ive seen in a long time. Probably means I should play better games, but trolls and d-bags are kind of an MMO must. A completely civil game would be uneventful. In any case, CCP IS driving people away- but in my opinion its more because this game has stopped expanding. They stopped adding lot of fun new things to do, they are just balancing everything to make it "fair". and while I really do hate unbalance mechanics, they create an intelligent audience who works hard to learn their exploits and who knows their stuff. My opinion- they should stop worrying about balancing this and that, stop making this new player friendly (the game is suppose to be confusing as hell, thats its strong point) and expand the game to include a lot more. People dont play this game for something easy and fair, they play it for the freedom and potential it has, and right now i just see CCP turning away from its potential.
as for the free to play or suscription thing, it has an FTP model for people who are great players. If you are a good player, then you can play for free. The current model is good as it is. this is just my opinion, but im with the person that a ame that is free to play give people no incentive to actually work hard. They didnt pay for the game time they have, so its just another disposable thing.
oh, that, and plus little rich kids can plex a lot to get whatever they want. so yeah
Just that hint of cynicism the world needs now and then. |
Minabunny
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
I have no problems with a free to play business model as long as it's done well. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
202
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Posted - 2012.02.13 17:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Mag's wrote:Eve is already FTP for some. EVE won't succed as "real" f2p game Considering players are dumb enough to pay real money for ISK and purchase characters already I'd say it would do far better than most people would think.
That statement just shows how dumb you are. In reality, it is actually smart to pay $$ for ISK if you have a well paid job and don't like PvE or trading. I don't expect you to understand why for obvious reasons. I also don't expect you to understand the difference between the current PLEX system and MT/F2P. I guess if EvE ever goes F2P it is just players like you that will be around.
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Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
131
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions.
EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience those of us who give no mercy and expect none in return. There are literally hundreds of other MMO's out there that don't tolerate certain "behaviors". Go play one of those if you dislike EVE.
Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á
Senior Recruiter |
Valei Khurelem
305
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience
I've always loved this excuse :P
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
132
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience I've always loved this excuse :P
39k online says that EVE is a niche product.
Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á
Senior Recruiter |
Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
106
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
The OP makes two cardinal errors in his original statement;
1. Factual errors, if you are going to make a claim you need to back it up by facts - not feelings or hearsay, or your opinion. You need to present your argument with solid, irrefutable data. Which leads to the second cardinal error.
2. Using the forums as a representation of the community as a whole, while in some ways it is a representation of a category of players (namely the ones who are vocal/verbal/outward) it is in and of itself a misrepresentation. Drawing subjective conclusions that validate your own view by selectively reading forum content is making your statement furthermore flawed.
tl;dr
OP. You are wrong.
Ronald Reagan: I do not like Sweden, they support communism.
Minister: Sir, but Sweden are anti-communist, Sir.-á
Ronald Reagan: I do not care what kind of communists they are. |
baltec1
596
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:baltec1 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:One thing that has always struck me as odd is why CCP thinks making a game that encourages griefing and driving people away is a good business model. Maybe they did not realize the magnitude of the issue and thought they would get sufficient subscriptions in any case. Maybe they are satisfied with the current level of subscriptions, and are simply not looking for Eve to be a multimillion player game. Or maybe they think having sufficient employees to police a "no griefing" policy would be so costly that it would not pay off despite increased subscriptions. EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right. Technically yes but only because it's a year older than WOW which by most metrics laughs in every other MMO's face
WoW has the numbers, EVE wins the awards.
Quality > quantity |
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Loud On The Forums Silent In Game
60
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience I've always loved this excuse :P
It's a fact. |
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.02.13 18:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
I for one like free to play. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have $15usd/month to put into a "video game".
When I worked for (cencored) a lot of our players were from overseas and didn't have a lot of money and most were finding it hard to come up with cash just to use computers at internet cafe's ect. Free to play option = WIN for all.
I pay monthly... however a lot of people I fly with or around pay by isk and if they couldn't, I wouldn't have the opportunity to fly with or around them.
my 2 isk. |
Johanne D'Arc
Rhine and Courtesan
7
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Posted - 2012.02.13 18:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:They are all elite pvp'ers and very hardcore in their own minds, especially when gate camping and 10v1 odds.
Stopped reading right there. Either a stupid troll or just a clueless carebear that needs to get a grip. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
247
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:16:00 -
[48] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience I've always loved this excuse :P
Well, you say it's excuse, explain why?
It would seem self-evident that fantasy style, avatar based, theme-park style games appeal to more players than sci-fi, non-avatar, non theme-park based game (in the mmo genre)..
Plenty of shooters, etc., out there set in various degrees of "hard / soft sci-fi", but not many MMO's. And of those, Eve is the only non theme-park style that I"m aware of. Eve only *recentlly* went to a "full avatar style" - which was a dismal failure at best because it was released as a "single player addon with no content" in an MMO.
So it seems pretty "niche" to me.
But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, what other non avatar based, non theme-park style MMO's are out there?
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online:
No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Oh yeah like golly gee whiz.... Idiot... |
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dielax wrote:I for one like free to play. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have $15usd/month to put into a "video game".
Personally, if a person has monetary issues that spending $15 usd/month (or any amounts in any currency) is going to be a hardship, then worrying about playing a "video game" should not be on their list of spending priorities.
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Sarpadeon
Rebirth Industries
1
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Posted - 2012.02.13 18:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Quote:EVE is a niche product marketed to a very small audience I've always loved this excuse :P
EVE online is basically the definition of a niche game
are there any other TRUE single shard persistent worlds out there?
are there any other which not only allows ganking players and stealing their stuff, but encourages it?
are there any other games in which any plot points by CCP take a backseat to anything the players are doing to eachother? The Great War, GHSC etc?
is there any other game that allows anything nearly as cutthroat as EVE allows? Corporate spying/theft, sabotage, backstabbing, scamming, assassinations, mercenaries, wardecs etc?
they are the some of the reasons EVE has such a small playerbase, but they are also the reasons EVE is such a good MMO, they make it stand out from the MMO crowd, but also limit its playerbase, IE niche. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Mag's wrote:Eve is already FTP for some. EVE won't succed as "real" f2p game Considering players are dumb enough to pay real money for ISK and purchase characters already I'd say it would do far better than most people would think.
You are one of the dumbest yappers on the forum these days, so you know about dumb...
Dielax wrote:I for one like free to play. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have $15usd/month to put into a "video game".
When I worked for (cencored) a lot of our players were from overseas and didn't have a lot of money and most were finding it hard to come up with cash just to use computers at internet cafe's ect. Free to play option = WIN for all.
I pay monthly... however a lot of people I fly with or around pay by isk and if they couldn't, I wouldn't have the opportunity to fly with or around them.
my 2 isk.
I bet your one of those in rl who thinks that the taxpayer should be gouged to pay for all the stuff you want to do but can't afford and dammit it, it's your RIGHT to have some too... |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:EVE is the only MMO to reach this age and still be growing. I'd say they are getting it right.
Actually, EVE's growth has been pretty flat for the last few years.
(Then again, MMORPG-World King of the Hill WOW has sputtered out too...) |
Tore Vest
207
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Good post
Spot on 
Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
Vangelios
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hunng Ibruin wrote:
I could go on but you know what I have stated isn't just hyperbole, it is by and large reality. This community is incredibly self-destructive and loathsome. If it isn't in your hands it deserves to be blown up/stolen/griefed/etc. until the person who has it gives up. War decks, can flipping, suicide, gatecamps, theft are all tools to accomplish this goal. In the end you post for the "tears" and could care less how the other person feels or if they leave the game; in-fact most of you will cheer even louder if you cause someone to quit the game.
I think that problem is not in eve-universe. It's just a sand-box game (and a good one), and by restricting such behavior,
you would damage a sand-box imho.
This is due our civilization-mindset, people are prone to violence in general, just watch RL news and you'll know where I'm pointing at. Just take a look at games that our children are playing (Battlefield3 is just a game, but it's all about killing things)
We are ignorant material beings, obsessed with material gain, ready to wage wars on our brothers, just for heaving different ideology or mindset, or just for fun, putting their guts on poles just to show that we are kings of fake universe?
Yet in distant future of eve-universe, capsuliers still have mindset of 21st century humankind (or human-child).
...-áEach small candle Lights a corner of the dark... |
Shukuzen Kiraa
47-Ronin
Outer Ring Excavations Syndicate
71
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
2bhammered wrote:
F2P done right would not kill it, only make it grow. I suppose they would have to make another server perhaps though to cope with increased population but then I guess the "one server, one world" would be gone?! Hmm, tough question, is too many players bad for eve online?
F2P always means Pay to Win. No matter how you want to look at that, its a bad thing. There are no good FREE MMO's. My point is there is no "right" way to do F2P |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
217
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
your an idiot if this game was FtP everyone would have like 10 accounts doing very specific things.
CCP would never be stupid enough to go full FtP.
pleas go back to panda land where you belong
CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
120
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 21:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
I could see a F2P future for EVE where Free Players accumulate Skillpoints at 1/4 or 1/5th the current rate (i.e a 1 day skill would take 4-5 days). By paying for a WoT'like "Premium" Account, for $15.00 or so, you would get the current speed of skillpoint gain.
Makes the game free to start and tryout (albeit slow as hell, an issue easily fixed by increasing starter skills of course).
Toss in the Pay-store for Ship Skins, New Hull Skins (i.e. Alt. Scorpion makes a Scorp look like the old one with updated textures, for example), Weapon Skins (all skins only, buyer must posess a base-hull to put the skin on, ensuring "sandbox marketplace: isn't overly hurt), etc. Clothing for Avatars in some magical WiS future. Hopefully no Pay-to-Win Ammo or Pay-Only Ships, but I could (honestly) see them go that route too a la WoT (Lowe's in Space).
It could work fiscally if EVE were a new release, but longstanding existing community rage over MT's would probably kill the game before letting it happen tbh.
Guess time will tell. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
339
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 21:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
If it wasn't for FTP we wouldn't have HTTP today, and thus would not be having this conversation.
Show some f****** respect. It's not like this is a ratio server.
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Kuroi Aurgnet
Guilt Brigade
Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers
9
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Posted - 2012.02.13 21:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
the real reason it wont work is shown in this thread alone. It is kinda like the original thread post said, everyone expects a game that is tailored perfectly to their individual needs. There will never be a game that makes all of its players happy. Someone will always come in whining about how they can't do this, or can't do that. If CCP made it F2P then a ton of people would start rage threads about how it will "lower quality". If it stays Pay2Play, people will complain about that too, saying "oh, well this person or that person can't AFFORD that" and to that i agree with the post that says if you can't afford it then it shouldn't be a priority. I also agree that a F2P will end up somehow making it so the free players will have such a big disadvantage, that they will whine and complain about it. Geez, we should stop these flaming threads over such trivial issues and try to get something more productive going, dontca think?
Bottom line: "trollers gunna troll". Always.
Just that hint of cynicism the world needs now and then. |
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