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Why folks are not going to 0.0

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Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:38:00 - [31] Why? Because most people want to PvP sometimes, people in 0.0 want to PvP all the time, so basically 0.0 ends up in the hands of the monkey that can be assed to press the same button over and over. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:39:00 - [32] Right now - I have no real desire to go to 0.0. Well, not true. I do have the desire just real life is a little more important right now. I don't have the ability to concentrate on all of the wonderful activities around me so I just hang out in Empire and know one day I will visit the unexplored and underexplored regions of Eve. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault. Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Uberapan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:53:00 - [33] You're right, I for one have never seen newbies accomplish anything in Eve. Conquers all of the south
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:56:00 - [34] Important in 0.0: Skill Teamwork Not important in 0.0: Skill Points Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
baltec1	Posted - 2008.02.05 16:58:00 - [35] I have just under 10 mil SP and I'm loving 0.0 The only problem I have is getting supplies and ships since my little sigil tends to get mobbed by pirate gate camps.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:31:00 - [36] A lot of wrong answers in this thread. People don't go to 0.0 because they don't have to in order to get the toys they want. The real fun is in 0.0, but unfortunately a lot of people are obsessed with advancing their character first. They consider that fun initially, and when it wears off (it could take a year or more) they go and actually play with/against people. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:31:00 - [37] I don't see how someone with 10 mil sp or more can be considered a newbie. And huge lol to needing at least 30 mil sp to live in 0.0. I started going out in excursions to 0.0 on my own before I even had 1 mil sp. When I had 3 mil I was fighting in major 0.0 wars. Knowledge of game mechanics, intelligence and tactical sense > character skillpoints And I'd bet you that the vast majority of players who live, and thrive, in 0.0 have less than 20 mil skillpoints.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:35:00 - [38] Originally by: DigitalCommunist A lot of wrong answers in this thread. People don't go to 0.0 because they don't have to in order to get the toys they want. The real fun is in 0.0, but unfortunately a lot of people are obsessed with advancing their character first. They consider that fun initially, and when it wears off (it could take a year or more) they go and actually play with/against people. Actually, they don't think it's fun. They are just delusional and think it's necessary. And quite often (like the op) they come on the forums and whine about it.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:46:00 - [39] After reading the second paragraph I stopped... under 30mil skill prohibits you from going into 0.0!!! LOL, you obviously have no clue.
Won Swunglow Caldari Dead By Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:47:00 - [40] Personally i havent spent much time in 0.0 because my personal life doesnt allow me to put the time into the Corp/Alliance that most of them require. At times i just need to shoot off and do something, you cant always do that when your in a large gang, or running a mining op, or setting up a POS ect, so most of the time people get ****ed off without realising life gets in the way sometimes. So here i am stuck in empire having a great time Regards
000Hunter000 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:52:00 - [41] Doing missions in hi sec ur a dispicable carebear and 'not a true eve player'... Farming and chaining beltrats 99% of your playingtime in 0.0 in the relative safety of ur alliance controlled territory only to come out 1% of the time un ur alliance blob ur uber cool... yeah right Sometimes i wonder who the real carebears are. I'm a carebear, i fully admit it, i no longer crave to go to 0.0, i enjoy my game in hi sec, i don't bother anyone with it, i usually don't critize others about their playingstyle as long as they don't try to force it on me or claim their way is the only way, people who talk like that are the ones that should quit eve and go play WoW impo CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.05 17:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Anell The way to solve all these problems is make the disparity between low skill point people flying T1 and high skill point folks flying big ships or T2 less apparent. No. No. No. and more of the No. GB2WoW. That will make this game better. It will cut the lag down and we wont have more of these useless touchy feel good, lets everyone play fair and slap shields and not really die WoW heads. On top of this garbage, everyone wants a piece of the triforce after 4 hours. You can't have it, i have it and you can't get it from me. You haven't worked hard, trained, learned, played, died, spent hours making up lost isk, gotten frustrated, quit, come back, tried new ideas, used your brain, read up on forums. No, you thought internet spaceships was suppose to play like wing commander, bought isk online, racked up huge credit card debt after 3 weeks and are now trying to buy carrier pilots cause you cant be arsed to spend the training time learning as you train up new skillz. The training time allows you to actually play the game and handle the enormous learning curve. Let my just hijack this thread and ask the simple question. Why has there been such a reluctance for people to follow what has always been the tradition in this game. 1. You are made 2. You mine/mission 3. You learn F1,F2,F3 etc 4. You join a corp 5. You learn how to play the game from other people 6. You learn the politics and where you would like to fit in 7. You spend more time with F1,F2,F3 and people F1,F2,F3 at you and that becomes fun 8. You start to climb the enormous learning curve which always is changing 9. You finally start to become leet pvper, miner, missioner, alt/spy corp theif random CAOD poaster 10. You play the game and don't take anything for granted, nothing for free and STFU when you die cause you just got PWN'D! Steps 1-5 start in empire and lo sec. Then you move, if you so chose, out to 0.0 thru a corp/alliance change and 6-10 happens Thats EvE. Nobody in 0.0 cares if there are more people. I can't imagine a single alliance is spending its time brainstorming how to bring the absolute fail-sauce in empire out to 0.0. Who gives a f*ck? Is it really WoW?, which makes the Steam prospect sound like hot wet farts, and it can only get worse.
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:19:00 - [43] Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 05/02/2008 18:19:33 Yah. I'm with most posters. I just don't see where the OP has gotten this perspective. I don't know of as rich an MMO that is as friendly to the rookie PvPer then EVE. Sure, you may have to adjust your tactics and cooperate with others to be successful but how is this different from PvP in any other MMO? The bottom line is that a 1 day old character can be very useful in a PvP fight (tackle) and it doesn't take much longer for them to fill another valuable role (jammer). I tried 0.0 and just didn't find anything there I liked I couldn't get elsewhere better. All my entertainment needs are met by low-sec. I think that's ok. As a 6 month old player it seems to me that 0.0 is certainly very good for some players looking for certain things from EVE but it's fairly overhyped. But that's understandable since a big part of 0.0 is politics and you can't have that without spin. If some of the larger 0.0 alliances actually started to crash because of lack of recruits (this is the first I've heard there was a problem though with 0.0 recruiting) it would actually make 0.0 more fun since there would be more opportunities for mid and larger corps as well as smaller alliances to get their foot in the door and create some more chaos. Always good in my book. I seriously doubt many folks are snubbing 0.0 because of their skill points. If so, those people aren't going to make it very far in EVE anyways if they let their SPs hold them back from doing what they like.
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:36:00 - [44] I must disagree with the op. People may not initially go to 0.0 out of fear, but eventually they do. The problem I find is that it is just not all that fun. That's why it is underpopulated. There's not much you can do there that you can't do in highsec, and there's a lot you can do in highsec that you can't do in 0.0. Also, if you have limited time, or if you have plenty of time but sometimes have to log off quickly (say for a crying baby), it can be a problem. Mostly, I just hated the fact that I spent so much of my precious time sitting around camping a gate or practicing flying in formation in the desperate hopes of finding a fight. But no, you don't need a lot of sp to live out there just fine. Sure, a 30 mil sp player with a great ship, fitted well, who is also experienced in pvp is going to beat you in a 1v1, but as many people have said, 0.0 is all about teamwork. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:40:00 - [45] Might I add that 0.0 is a lot less intimidating when it's got it's own supply of faction stations. Unfortunately, not all 0.0 is created equal.
Foomanshoe Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:53:00 - [46] I disagree as well, but with the lot of you. its rather simple really, 0.0 cannot support a large number of players. A 'good' -1.0 system usually only supports 2-3 ratters @ a time, and can be wiped clean of roids in a day, and simply put the -0.0 - -0.6 systems are plain crap and not worth anyones time. This disparity helps create conflict over the 'good' regions and also prevents alliances from accepting large numbers of miners/npcers be cause the systems simply cannot support 200 people like the agent systems in empire can. If increasing the population of 0.0 is really an issue, and i dont think it is, the spawns for the 'higher' 0.0 systems for ore and NPC need to be buffed to closer to the -1.0 systems and let players install agents into player outposts. You might even find 'open' stations that make their money off docking fees to use the agents inside, of course thats kinda unlikely. Better yet leave things the way they are. _______________________________________________ Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Foomanshoe If increasing the population of 0.0 is really an issue, and i dont think it is, Only part of your post that I agree with.
R0ot Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:14:00 - [48] Been in 0.0 space since the end of my first month in game. Have not surpassed 23mil SP on this character and my other chars aren't over 17mil SP. 0.0 space is achievable to every player in the game regardless of sp tbh. Sure its usually hard living but to coin a much used phrase, "This isn't Hello Kitty Online your playing!" ------------------------------------------------------------------
Buxaroo Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:26:00 - [49] I have no idea where your 30mil SP idea comes from. I have been playing EVE in 0.0 sense the first 2 weeks I got in game. And I am JUST now hitting the 30 mil SP marker. You are never to young to go to 0.0. Live and learn. Don't worry about looses. Don't worry about being podded. If you are too skittish for pvp, you don't belong in 0.0, it's that simple. I am not saying you are, just you need the right attitude to make it in 0.0 I don't know how many people I have killed who had way more SP than I did, and these were solo kills as well. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:39:00 - [50] you want to see large numbers of people moving out to 0.0 get the devs to set it up somehow so that you can increase the security rating of the systems somehow. then you'll see a wave of carebears wash over 0.0 and turn it into empire space in a few weeks likely. short of that there are an awful lot of people who've made it perfectly clear they just aren't interested in 0.0 play.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:39:00 - [51] Quote: I disagree as well, but with the lot of you. its rather simple really, 0.0 cannot support a large number of players. A 'good' -1.0 system usually only supports 2-3 ratters @ a time, and can be wiped clean of roids in a day, and simply put the -0.0 - -0.6 systems are plain crap and not worth anyones time. QFT. I don't think 0.0 is either suffering for people or so overpopulated that it's turning people away, but the number of players in EVE is constantly growing, and so many 0.0 systems are just plain crap.
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:42:00 - [52] I have close to 30 million skill points and I'm not going to move to 0.0 anytime soon. Why? Because some people don't like being nameless drones in huge corps and giant alliances. Some people don't like being bossed around on vent and team speak. Some people don't like going on mandatory "alliance ops" that require players to fly 50 jumps just to be told "we aren't engaging go home." Some people don't like the lagfests that are fleet engagements in 0.0. Primary, pop, primary, pop, primary, pop, primary... lag... pop... lag... primary... lag... crash to desktop, log back in... oh look I'm in station 60 jumps away. Some of us don't like eye bleedingly boring POS sieges. Some people don't like to spend their time ratting endlessly, just waiting for someone to come into their vent channel to boss them around. SOME people like roving in small gangs. Some people like the thrill of small scale combat, in low-sec where you've got to be a little more creative than "nano-gangs" of doom. We like being able to use almost all the ship types in small gang work, which can't happen in 0.0. In short, for some of us, we don't want to go to 0.0 because we don't like it. Furthermore, ::shock:: some of us REALLY like living in low-sec, and see our end game as being there.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:51:00 - [53] Originally by: Uberapan You're right, I for one have never seen newbies accomplish anything in Eve. Conquers all of the south Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Marcus TheMartin Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:54:00 - [54] Originally by: Wendat Huron Why? Because most people want to PvP sometimes, people in 0.0 want to PvP all the time, so basically 0.0 ends up in the hands of the monkey that can be assed to press the same button over and over. that is not true if they wanted to pvp all the time why do they keep logging off on me?
Karash Amerius Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.05 19:57:00 - [55] Originally by: Anell ...And the reason is simple. There is a massive amount of disparity in ability and skills in this game and it creates a lot of situations where people with less then 30 million skill points will die over and over in a 1 v 1 situation... I didnt realize 0.0 was a vast section of 1v1 fights. If that were the case, I think you would see a lot MORE pilots out in nullsec. "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:02:00 - [56] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Uberapan You're right, I for one have never seen newbies accomplish anything in Eve. Conquers all of the south That was helpful. I wouldn't pat myself too much on the back because my alliance is full of braggarts and asshats who are touting an accomplishment they haven't actually achieved yet. Maybe that's why I'm not in Goonswarm. -Karlemgne
Kurtis Lowe	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:16:00 - [57] Originally by: Anell There is a massive amount of disparity in ability and skills in this game and it creates a lot of situations where people with less then 30 million skill points will die over and over in a 1 v 1 situation. What the hell is a 1v1 ?!!! Finding a 1v1 in 0.0 is like finding a 10 dollar bill sitting on the street corner, few and far between. Today's vocabulary building word is 'fleet' and if you're in one, unless you go OUT OF YOUR WAY to die or just plain run into a more studley fleet, you'll be fine. 0.0 is safe, I feel safer there than in jita. WAY SAFER.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 05/02/2008 20:33:36 I want to know how many SPs the OP has. If it's a purchased account I want to know how long the current user has been playing. The majority of any 1v1 already comes down mainly to fitting. There are only so many gunner SPs that can be put into any given weapon, and if a 90 million SP player with a horrendous fit takes on a 5 million SP player who knows his ship and knows his fittings the guy with more SPs will still lose. SPs make far less of a difference in Eve than levels make in any other MMO that I'm aware of. Certainly less of a difference than DAoC, AO, and WoW, which I can all speak for from experience. edit: of course which ships are used will play a factor. For the sake of argument lets say both those figurative characters are using the same class.
Anell Minmatar Evil Avatar Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:43:00 - [59] I debated whether or not to respond to this thread again mostly since it seems folks are not actually reading all of my post but instead pick one item out of context then hold it up and say I have no idea what I am talking about. But in the end I gave into my ego and decided to post one last time. The whole point of this thread (a point most of you refuse to address) is disparity in fighting ability between characters. This disparity is 80% skill point based and 20% actual experience based. Some of you will dispute this but the fact is that if you have an incredible amount of actual experience but lack the sp to even equip T2 weapons/ships then you are going to lose fights more often then if the opposite were true. Plus experience in fights comes rather quickly in comparison to sp which will literally take months to get a basic setup. So what happens? Well everyone has seen it before, some of you pointed it out. The new characters run out into low sec (most don't even make it to 0.0) and get blown up right away by someone in a bigger ship or one with bigger weapons. They might even get podded. They lose whatever the insurance didn't cover and also have to run around recreating that ship again. Its no big deal for most folks and if it had been a decent fight the new player might not have minded very much. But its almost never a decent fight, its almost aways a very fast fight where they might not have even gotten a shot off before popping. Theres a name for this of course. Its called Ganking. It happens in lots of games and the result of it happening often in a game are predictable. People stay away from areas where they are likely to be ganked. Where is that? 0.0 of course. So what is the solution? The solution is to make fights with newer players feel less like a gank and more like a battle. That can not be done so long as new players don't have a chance of hurting someone with high sp in a properly fitted ship. Someone in this thread asked if I thought a corp of 1 month old characters should be able to stake out a spot in 0.0 and hold it with impunity. The answer I give them is no I don't think they should be able to hold it with impunity. But I do think they should have some chance of holding it. I think that if a fleet of 20 1 month old characters flying cruisers fought a fleet of 10 high sp characters flying HACs it should be even money whether they win or lose. Right now its not. Right now the new characters will be lucky to kill even one of the opposing side. And that I believe is why you don't see a lot of people moving out to 0.0. Sure you see a few, you will always get the adventurous ones, and the ones who found a corp to take them in. But you will never see large groups of new characters moving out. And many admitted the reason why, they just can't exist in 0.0 without that sheltering arm of an established and experience corp.
Laila Eldgorn	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:01:00 - [60] Best ship in 0.0 is... Ibis (probably most popular, just check 0.0 entry points), caracal, thorax, maybe. I'm pretty sure I've seen plenty of those ratting in 0.0 just fine... The problem is many people want to go to 0.0 with a big triumph flying officer fitted machariel, or maybe better, mothership. Which will uh. Blow up pretty fast.

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