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Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.02.29 14:15:00 -
[1]
It is obvious that CCP meant level Vs to be completed by groups of people, or at least very very capable solo pilots. As it stands, level Vs can easily be completed without a capital ship, which is good since relatively few of them allow capital ships in anyways due to the acceleration gates.
I think that's where CCP went wrong.
Level Vs should practically require a capital ship to complete. There should be very large targets with high amounts of HPs (stations, NPC capital ships, etc.) that either need a Dread in siege mode to kill or a battleship gang backed up by a logistics carrier. Aside from giving Dreadnought pilots something else to do with their Dreads, it would open up the possibility of named capital modules, which would be incentive enough for most capital pilots to try them out.
Thoughts?
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 14:27:00 -
[2]
In all honesty, if they wanted to make LvL5's popular then they would have to move them to highsec
This would allow dedicated groups to risk the heavy dps and incredibly evil triggers and energy neturilizing batterys in highsec, while the ones who actually feel like doing them in lowsec would have the added benefit of having the option to use Capital ships to tank them alot more efficent
Otherwise, there gona stay as a useless gimeric and gank-bait :p |
Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.29 15:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: MuffinsRevenger
In all honesty, if they wanted to make LvL5's popular then they would have to move them to highsec
This would allow dedicated groups to risk the heavy dps and incredibly evil triggers and energy neturilizing batterys in highsec, while the ones who actually feel like doing them in lowsec would have the added benefit of having the option to use Capital ships to tank them alot more efficent
Otherwise, there gona stay as a useless gimeric and gank-bait :p
Exactly.
Who is going to risk running them in faction/officer-fitted ships when the DPS is so hard to manage even when there isn't the constant threat of attack by player pirates?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.02.29 17:02:00 -
[4]
as far as i remember there isn't a reason to do them because of lack of proper reward. oh and ****ing off other factions.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.29 18:24:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Level Vs should practically require a capital ship to complete.
No thanks. I'd rather them require a decent team of BS/BC and have worthwhile rewards and not tank your faction standings.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
Level Vs should practically require a capital ship to complete.
No thanks. I'd rather them require a decent team of BS/BC and have worthwhile rewards and not tank your faction standings.
not to mention the neut towers would fuxxor the cap ship rather quickly.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:17:00 -
[7]
Just increase rewards.
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voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:03:00 -
[8]
It seems that ccp did not design level 5 mission so my as throw them in a crank the difficulty up to 11. Then did not do a risk/reward/time assessment or even plan what should/could be able to do them. Persoanl I think having some PvE content for capital ships is a great. It's risk is balance being in low sec and huge dps/neut from npc's, whats really needs re-designing is the reward / time needed. Also group PvE is a good training for group pvp IMHO in that teachs team work. Having low reward level 5 mission in high sec might work if it's designed a round a team of players and it's still worth their time if each of them gets the same as level 4 reward ect.
Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
Jerusalem Eve
Amarr
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.03.01 02:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MuffinsRevenger
In all honesty, if they wanted to make LvL5's popular then they would have to move them to highsec
This would allow dedicated groups to risk the heavy dps and incredibly evil triggers and energy neturilizing batterys in highsec, while the ones who actually feel like doing them in lowsec would have the added benefit of having the option to use Capital ships to tank them alot more efficent
Otherwise, there gona stay as a useless gimeric and gank-bait :p
/winner
This is what many of the players in Eve said would happen and sadly the prediction was true. I don't see the devs moving level 5s to high sec as it would be admitting defeat. I think they would try and "fix" them before even considering a move to high sec.
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Bom Bolenath
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:24:00 -
[10]
where ccp went wrong with lvl 5s (my $.02):
1. neut towers amplify existing pro-caldari pve mechanics
2. low sec post-HICs is hardly worth dealing with, let alone without a proper reward:risk ratio.
3. uber "gang PVE" content that can be soloed by one ship (NH)is clearly broken (see #1)
there are lots of level 5 threads at this point. CCP has not responded to a single one i've seen. there needs to be a concerted effort to keep 1 thread at the top of this forum rather than the weekly whinge/whine that falls off the map after a couple days. every new lvl 5 mission runner says the same thing: they're not worth the drama. what gives?
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.03.01 03:28:00 -
[11]
they don't have to be POPULAR, they just have to be WORTHWHILE.
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MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.01 09:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
they don't have to be POPULAR, they just have to be WORTHWHILE.
Another option would be to make them alot of "fun" :p |
Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.01 11:13:00 -
[13]
Moving lev 5 into hi sec would not make them a lot more popular. At least at the moment those missions are that unique content in low sec that was needed there quite badly.
What went wrong tho is the fact that if you do missions for isk then lev 5 missions are not the best PvE option for that, thus they fail to work as that cookie that is supposed to lure missionrunners back out into low sec after that new scanning system fiasco where most of them moved into hi sec and found out that they can earn more there with faction pimped ride than in low sec with T2 ride.
Remember that missions are not fun, they are grind and done to get isk for fun stuff. Well ofc some people think that missions are fun, well some people also find mining to be fun activity but I imagine it's the minority.
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Weeka
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.03.01 12:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Carniflex
At least at the moment those missions are that unique content in low sec that was needed there quite badly.
Something that isn't used by more than a couple of people at best can't be something that was "desperately needed". There are reasons to go into low sec, lvl 5 missions is not one of them.
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Veryez
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Posted - 2008.03.01 16:03:00 -
[15]
Actually I'm glad lvl 5 missions are restricted to Losec, it reminds everyone of what will happen if the: "Move all lvl 4 missions to Losec" whine is ever listened to. Oh, and Lvl 5 missions should have better rewards and allow Capital ships in. 
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DrefsabZN
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Posted - 2008.03.01 23:37:00 -
[16]
I do level 4's solo for isk, I make good money doing it, I've tried and completed a couple of lvl 5's with my corp mates and decided that we are going back to level 4's for cash/mod farming.
The main reason is the money, I can make more money doing level 4's than I can on 5's. Sure the LP reward/Bounties/Mission Reward is a little higher on 5's, but the length of time taken and the fact you normally have to split the rewards with gang mates means you get less for a lot more work.
Also there's the danger of being ganked, you can't bring your best gear or even semi-best to a mission where there's a very good change of pirate blobs ganking you while fighting the rat's. Sure in low sec this is expected but when it happens you loose out on a lot of isk making lvl 5's less worth while than ever before.
The rewards need to be increased by a lot, plus while they are at it they should increase the verity of missions for all levels and put a lot more random level agent's out in lowsec/0.0 to give the players there something more intersting to pve against while waiting for pvp.
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Bom Bolenath
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Posted - 2008.03.02 00:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Bom Bolenath on 02/03/2008 00:50:44
most in eve guffaw when you mention any other mmo, although many of us come from EQ, WoW, whathaveyou, but what's wrong with making eve "dungeons" a bit more like good dungeons?
Boss rats currently stink. Zor? Mychen Rysuna? Cough. Even the rare commander in lvl 5s is a joke compared to what anyone doing group pve in any other mmo faces.
As it stands, pve hangs on trigger traps for thrills. In level 5s we get better NPC AI to a certain extent, with the targeting of support before DPS. Still, this is slim pickins compared to what could be devised. What about missions inside structures? Death Star style raids involving interceptor attacks on critical battlestation services?
Deadspace is so bloody dead, agreed?
Anyway, back to the greatest *PVP* game ever built.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.03.02 16:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bom Bolenath
Anyway, back to the greatest *PVP* game ever built.
Replace "game" with "mmo", and I won't consider that statement ridiculous.
Even if L5's were less profitable then L4's, I'd still be tempted to do them *IF* I was free to choose my setup for the mission at hand, including faction gear. I.e. if the biggest risk was the NPC and not a PC ganksquad.
At least for me missions are about efficiency, I will happily spend hours planning and testing to shave off 30 seconds from missionX, or 5 seconds in the case of Recon 3/3. It's a puzzle game really. Introducing great unknowns (like pie ganksquads) not only distracts from the PvE gaming, it forces you to fit way way waaaaay suboptimal fits, and gives nothing in return. I really, *really* don't see why anyone would think mixing PvE and PvP is a good idea.
But sure, tougher missions with npc carriers etc would be great....as long as either scanning is drastically changed or they're offered in highsec.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.03.02 23:00:00 -
[19]
Biggest problem is the requirement to take a PvE setup into a PvP area. Nothing more to it really.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.03 00:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Biggest problem is the requirement to take a PvE setup into a PvP area. Nothing more to it really.
/me points at 0.0 complexes
oh rights some how 0.0 is safer than lowsec
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.03.03 03:04:00 -
[21]
Quote:
/me points at 0.0 complexes
oh rights some how 0.0 is safer than lowsec
Damn straight it is.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.03.03 07:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
oh rights some how 0.0 is safer than lowsec
I guess it is sarcastic remark. Well sarcasm aside alliance controlled 0.0 is indeed actually indeed safer than low sec. Low sec is ghetto you drive thru windows up and doors locked. Every ghetto has it's residents, so has low sec. Some even like it out there.
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Tyr Zewa
Caldari
Tax Collectors
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Posted - 2008.03.03 11:00:00 -
[23]
alot of lowsec complexes will escalate to non friendly 0.0 systems :P
But anyway, the problem really is the mission being in lowsec.
Even if you increased rewards by a factor of 10 it would hardly be worth it to have a pvp fit gang on standby just to guard you on your mission.
PvE and PvP in this game are to different for it.
And if you increase the rewards by a factor of 10, low sec alliances might make a tad to much money with to little effort :P
Are the lvl5 agents in CVA space?
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Agif
UnderDog Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MuffinsRevenger
In all honesty, if they wanted to make LvL5's popular then they would have to move them to highsec
This would allow dedicated groups to risk the heavy dps and incredibly evil triggers and energy neturilizing batterys in highsec, while the ones who actually feel like doing them in lowsec would have the added benefit of having the option to use Capital ships to tank them alot more efficent
Otherwise, there gona stay as a useless gimeric and gank-bait :p
Thay all ready have 
Incase your not sure why... Alot of the missions are now spawnining in empire so you ninja in grab a mission and then ninja out of low sec and wallah you and your buddies can do your own thing without worrying about low sec ebil pirates 
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EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08 |
Andrue
Amarr
Federation Of Space Loonies
Culture Shock Initiative
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Andrue on 05/03/2008 11:32:56
I think they went wrong in restricting them to low-sec. I know their reasons and also the reasons behind not giving out huge Isk rewards but if they made some of them available in high-sec and nerfed the rewards for those missions people might run them just for fun and giggles.
Basically I guess I'm looking for a more challenging mission than L4 can offer and I'm prepared to accept standard L4 rewards or even a reduction if they are fun.
Edit:Oh and not crapping your faction standings would be nice.
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Agif
UnderDog Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:39:00 -
[26]
Not sure about CVA space but the missions are almost at a fixed point. When they were first released i think they were developed by a kindergarten somewhere in the dessert. But after running them constantly looking for bugz i would say they are almost at a point we can say that they are worth running.
The neut towers in the non cap missions are the biggest problem as their HP's are insane but like anything in EVE we adapt and overcome.
/Agif
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EvEmissions - Level 5 Missions - Updated 22/01/08 |
Andrue
Amarr
Federation Of Space Loonies
Culture Shock Initiative
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
Level Vs should practically require a capital ship to complete.
No thanks. I'd rather them require a decent team of BS/BC and have worthwhile rewards and not tank your faction standings.
not to mention the neut towers would fuxxor the cap ship rather quickly.
I fly a Nighthawk 
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Royaldo
Gallente
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.05 11:57:00 -
[28]
No putting them in low sec was right.
Having so few agents was wrong. Ive not botherd looking at the other factions, but amarr is a complete joke. again, aridia... i pointed that out the first day when it was known where they would be placed. stupid idea.
lemme guess for lvl6, its gonna be 2 agents pr faction, amarr getting both of them in aridia. ccp, if you are thinking this. GET OUT!
also, the rewards are way way way too low. also, yayy for passive shield tanks.
the lvl5's just arent worth it. lvl3's makes more isk then lvl5.
Low sec so badly needed this. Then you go out of your way to pre-nerf them into stoneage. ****ty lp, ****ty reward and bonus. Takes way to long to complete.
Too few agents, and for amarr, most of them placed in aridia............
Increase the rewards and lp. Sort of the heavy neut towers. Increase the amount of agents each faction has. And sort out the locations of the amarr ones.
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Adeena Torcfist
Caldari
Dark Underground Forces
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Posted - 2008.03.06 16:08:00 -
[29]
well, the only thing ive got to add to this, would be a random generated password ( seen on the mission info " give me more details " ) & using the Enter Forcefiled password to get in. People in gang would also have to enter it, copy/paste in the chat window.
This would stop the pirates at the gates ( unless there wasnt one )
only thing u got to worry about is stargates or dundocking. Simple Fix really.
As for the rewards, well yea, of course it needs looking into. Like most things really 
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.03.06 18:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
Level Vs should practically require a capital ship to complete.
No thanks. I'd rather them require a decent team of BS/BC and have worthwhile rewards and not tank your faction standings.
not to mention the neut towers would fuxxor the cap ship rather quickly.
I fly a Nighthawk
yea was more referring to the small gangs/cap ships getting sucked dry.
as it is right now nighthawks are practically the only way to go for lv5s
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