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Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.01 10:26:00 - [1] Yet again we have another thread begging us Empire residents to join you. Once more you extoll the virtues of your chosen part of the map and ask us why we dont join you. Let me turn the idea around a bit and ask a different question. Why do you want me? I have my own theory why you want me to fly out there but here's an opportunity for you to explain to me, in your own words, why you would value my presence in 0.0 or low-sec. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Is forporn THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2008.03.01 10:57:00 - [2] Originally by: Andrue Why do you want me? We don't
Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:05:00 - [3] Originally by: Is for** Originally by:** Andrue Why do you want me? We don't Cool. Then we're both happy ..but there seems to be plenty of people that do want us Empire dwellers to move out. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Is forporn THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Is for** Originally by:** Andrue Why do you want me? We don't Cool. Then we're both happy ..but there seems to be plenty of people that do want us Empire dwellers to move out. Its mostly anger at the seriously broken risk:reward of empire brought on by lvl4 missions (and lvl 3s to a lesser extent)
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Is for** Originally by:** Andrue Originally by: Is for** Originally by:** Andrue Why do you want me? We don't Cool. Then we're both happy ..but there seems to be plenty of people that do want us Empire dwellers to move out. Its mostly anger at the seriously broken risk:reward of empire brought on by lvl4 missions (and lvl 3s to a lesser extent) It's only broken if you consider 0.0 to be "end-game". As I said in another thread, this is no longer the case. 0.0 is just a lifestyle choice.
Is forporn THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Is for**** Its mostly anger at the seriously broken risk:reward of empire brought on by lvl4 missions (and lvl 3s to a lesser extent) It's only broken if you consider 0.0 to be "end-game". As I said in another thread, this is no longer the case. 0.0 is just a lifestyle choice. I don't consider 0.0 to be an "end-game", eve dosen't have an end game at all (sandbox 4tw). Saying that they are just lifestyle choices dosen't adress the fact that the risk:reward is totally out of wack.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:26:00 - [7] I dont know Andrue. I see no reason for us to want more people in 0.0 Only argument that has value is that indeed, the risk v reward balance is a bit broken. But at this time that's kind of a non-argument as well since losses hardly matter anymore because replacing stuff is soo ******* easy these days. What remains is an argument of principle, where people (rightfully imo) argue that combat and related mechanics in empire are hopelessly broken due to suicide tactics on onehand, and (ncp) corp mechanics on the other. So since competitive play in empire is so limited by the fact that you cannot employ part of the intended mechanics of competition well, people get frustrated that part of the playerbase is succesfull in not competing on all levels. I guess if anything, that is why. [center] Old blog
Is forporn THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Rod Blaine I dont know Andrue. I see no reason for us to want more people in 0.0 Only argument that has value is that indeed, the risk v reward balance is a bit broken. But at this time that's kind of a non-argument as well since losses hardly matter anymore because replacing stuff is soo ******* easy these days. What remains is an argument of principle, where people (rightfully imo) argue that combat and related mechanics in empire are hopelessly broken due to suicide tactics on onehand, and (ncp) corp mechanics on the other. So since competitive play in empire is so limited by the fact that you cannot employ part of the intended mechanics of competition well, people get frustrated that part of the playerbase is succesfull in not competing on all levels. I guess if anything, that is why. I can't belive i find myself agreeing with bob :cripes:
Mottgus Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:29:00 - [9] We want you to come out here so we can blow you up.
SinBin Gallente HARDC0RE	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:47:00 - [10] I enjoy both 0.0 & hi-sec & im happy about many carebaers in empire making lots of money. At the moment im in casuel play mode & semi afk alot to much for 0.0 or use to an allince blob & im bulding up some funds wile im there. T2 mods/ships are in plentiful supply at decent prices due to carebaers, so thanks guys keep up the good work. Do pvpers even relise without them we still be in T1. Excert the few massive power bases & you think there be so keen to sell outside there own allince without the massive compotion empire lovers bring ? & give up there anvatage I think not. NPC corp use is the only thing I dont like & shuold have been sorted years ago but thats eve all over. _______________________________________ Ill Shutup when CCP remove bookmarks
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.03.01 11:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Mottgus We want you to come out here so we can blow you up. Knew it!! "Unpack the Mammoth, Martha!! We're staying here in Ryddinjorn!!" -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.03.01 12:06:00 - [12] An corp/alliance will want you if you can do the following: 1. Be self sufficient, yes industry. 2. Work as a team to run POS for sov, ooh industry again. 3. PvP for fun occasionally patrolling borders. 4. Fight tooth and nail when the chips are down. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Cailais Amarr VITOC Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.01 12:10:00 - [13] Some of its jealousy. Low Sec / .0 dwellers want Empire players to share the same dangers they do whilst playing EVE, thats partly why you see Empire suicide ganks, a High sec war decs - its not always motivated by isk or seeking pvp. Some of it because Low Sec and .0 is genuinely a lot of fun, and the more players involved the more that increases as its more dynamic, and Low Sec / .0 players want to encourage people to experience that aspect of the game. Some of its the need for resources, it's suprisingly hard to come by even basic ships and modules in many areas - there being few players in certain areas means the market is quite depressed, few trade (even though you could make huge profits doing so) because there are few customers. Finally because an increased industrial base would give, the admitedly militant, low sec and .0 player something to fight for and fight over. I ask - whats the point of battling over that high end mineral packed belt if theres no-one to mine it, and no one mining it? "Well done men! We've captured system E-PEEN! The enemy have fled! We are victorious! Send in the mining barges!" "Er....Sir, we dont have any mining barges..no-one can mine.." C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.03.01 12:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Cailais Some of its jealousy. Low Sec / .0 dwellers want Empire players to share the same dangers they do whilst playing EVE, thats partly why you see Empire suicide ganks, a High sec war decs - its not always motivated by isk or seeking pvp. Some of it because Low Sec and .0 is genuinely a lot of fun, and the more players involved the more that increases as its more dynamic, and Low Sec / .0 players want to encourage people to experience that aspect of the game. Some of its the need for resources, it's suprisingly hard to come by even basic ships and modules in many areas - there being few players in certain areas means the market is quite depressed, few trade (even though you could make huge profits doing so) because there are few customers. Finally because an increased industrial base would give, the admitedly militant, low sec and .0 player something to fight for and fight over. I ask - whats the point of battling over that high end mineral packed belt if theres no-one to mine it, and no one mining it? "Well done men! We've captured system E-PEEN! The enemy have fled! We are victorious! Send in the mining barges!" "Er....Sir, we dont have any mining barges..no-one can mine.." C. Thats not it at all. New blood in a corp is great, but the wrong blood isn't. The high sec war dec thing is because CCP have made it so you can earn billions in high sec. The whole principle of this game was isk vs risk why should someone have access to the end game without putting any effort in. Fair enough for those who risk millions in investment and use their intellect to get ahead. You don't have to do that anymore in high sec. So a little risk has to be put in or empire needs nerfing ie move level 4s to low sec. The fun thing is correct and more poeple having fun is all good, see right blood above. All 0.0 corps are industry sufficient alliances don't need industry only corps at all usually. But a PvP corp has to be self sufficient. One evening once a month and a decent sized 0.0 corp can mine enough ice to run 25 POS for a month. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.01 13:21:00 - [15] Edited by: Andrue on 01/03/2008 13:21:53 I think Rod has a point. 0.0 sucks compared to Empire and you have to want the lifestyle to live down there. You also need to work pretty hard to have the good life. Tbh I don't have a problem with 0.0. From my POV it's just somewhere I don't have any real interest in living. I spent time down there it was mostly boring with the occasional organised operation. I'd pop down there for a weekend if I could but the alliances don't seem to want that and I can't entirely blame them. The problem I have is with the threads themeselves. They seem to treat Empire residents like fools or else want to ruin our game experience. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Ky Vatta Caldari Majority 12	Posted - 2008.03.01 14:15:00 - [16] People don`t want to go to 0.0, as there are no proper markets (if any), so everyone sticks close the the trade centres in Empire 0.0 has plenty of space, but so little to do out there.... --- Self-confessed Carebear, and proud of it
Gadawan	Posted - 2008.03.01 14:36:00 - [17] I honestly have no idea why the 'hard core' players give a damn about what others want to do...
Wash MySocks	Posted - 2008.03.01 14:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Gadawan I honestly have no idea why the 'hard core' players give a damn about what others want to do... Because it makes them feel more 'hard core'.
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.03.01 14:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Valan The high sec war dec thing is because CCP have made it so you can earn billions in high sec. The whole principle of this game was isk vs risk why should someone have access to the end game without putting any effort in. Fair enough for those who risk millions in investment and use their intellect to get ahead. You don't have to do that anymore in high sec. So a little risk has to be put in or empire needs nerfing ie move level 4s to low sec. No, it isn't/wasnt. There are two levels to play at, risk v reward and effort/time v reward. Level 4's require the latter, 0.0 requires the former.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.01 14:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Andrue I think Rod has a point. 0.0 sucks compared to Empire and you have to want the lifestyle to live down there. You also need to work pretty hard to have the good life. Well most of the 0.0 is crap. There is some good areas with below -0.7 true sec that can compete and surpass rewards offered in hi sec level 4 mission grinding. Problem is the crap 0.0 where you are better off visiting empire and grinding lev 4 missions for isk when you need it. As far as why people are pointing at lev 4 missions and talking about risk vs reward. I think it's the same reason why I point towards T2 BPO's and talk about stuff being 'unfair'. Partly envy and partly that in some situations it is somewhat out of balance. NPC corp dwellers aside (as thats separate issue) level 4 missions are mostly fine on risk vs reward section. I have lost more battleships to lev 4 missions than I have lost ratting battleships in 0.0 (during one year in 0.0 and one year in hi sec).
Lisento Slaven Amarr Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:09:00 - [21] You do make quite a bit more in 0.0 than in empire...by quite a bit I mean billions more if you just do the right stuff. You can't make that much running lvl 4's in the same amount of time, in empire. Everything else is an opinion until the term "risk" is defined within the context of the occupation where "risk" is involved. PVPers have a much different form of risk compared to traders and miners. --- Put in space whales!
Valan The Fated	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Valan The high sec war dec thing is because CCP have made it so you can earn billions in high sec. The whole principle of this game was isk vs risk why should someone have access to the end game without putting any effort in. Fair enough for those who risk millions in investment and use their intellect to get ahead. You don't have to do that anymore in high sec. So a little risk has to be put in or empire needs nerfing ie move level 4s to low sec. No, it isn't/wasnt. There are two levels to play at, risk v reward and effort/time v reward. Level 4's require the latter, 0.0 requires the former. You're going to make me go fish out Dev posts aren't you with the isk vs risk quotes in them. This is why this game is turning into hello kitty. The isk vs risk principle has gone, not only has it gone people have forgot it even existed. But anyway I come back to Empire to make money to PvP because its easier and quicker. I know plenty of people who do. Most of 0.0 is rubbish. Even complexes aren't worth the isk by the time you divide it up. Exploration sites are a fairly poor return also. All level 4s need to go into low sec and then I think the balance between 0.0 and Empire will be addressed somewhat. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Valan Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Valan The high sec war dec thing is because CCP have made it so you can earn billions in high sec. The whole principle of this game was isk vs risk why should someone have access to the end game without putting any effort in. Fair enough for those who risk millions in investment and use their intellect to get ahead. You don't have to do that anymore in high sec. So a little risk has to be put in or empire needs nerfing ie move level 4s to low sec. No, it isn't/wasnt. There are two levels to play at, risk v reward and effort/time v reward. Level 4's require the latter, 0.0 requires the former. You're going to make me go fish out Dev posts aren't you with the isk vs risk quotes in them. This is why this game is turning into hello kitty. The isk vs risk principle has gone, not only has it gone people have forgot it even existed. But anyway I come back to Empire to make money to PvP because its easier and quicker. I know plenty of people who do. Most of 0.0 is rubbish. Even complexes aren't worth the isk by the time you divide it up. Exploration sites are a fairly poor return also. All level 4s need to go into low sec and then I think the balance between 0.0 and Empire will be addressed somewhat. Then the mission crowd will run lvl 3's
Gadawan	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:45:00 - [24] ^ So everyone has to spend countless hours in the game or risk losin your ship to make money so they can try different things in game? Sounds to me like the PVP crowd just wants easy prey...
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.01 16:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Gadawan ^ So everyone has to spend countless hours in the game or risk losin your ship to make money so they can try different things in game? Sounds to me like the PVP crowd just wants easy prey... You're all easy prey
Andrue Amarr Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.01 16:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Valan All level 4s need to go into low sec and then I think the balance between 0.0 and Empire will be addressed somewhat. So you think that the solution to your problem is to nerf someone else? That makes you a typically selfish carebear in my book. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.01 16:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Valan All level 4s need to go into low sec and then I think the balance between 0.0 and Empire will be addressed somewhat. So you think that the solution to your problem is to nerf someone else? That makes you a typically selfish carebear in my book. You're right - people who make no effort and take no risks deserve greater rewards than those who do. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.01 16:59:00 - [28] People who whine about lev 4 missions and see their salvation in nerfing lev 4 missions in hi sec are the ones not doing them. Or do that blob claim that there is actually some risk in alliance controlled 0.0 when ratting and keeping eye on local ? If you do than your experience differs from mine. Only time I lost mine in 0.0 ratting was when I warped to wrong bookmark and ended at same spot as hostile scout.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.01 17:03:00 - [29] Edited by: duckmonster on 01/03/2008 17:04:37 I have a plan for empire. It will be shocking. <-------------- We are your new masters now. Dissidents will be "rehabilitated". So to speak. -----------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.03.01 18:44:00 - [30] Because they got their asses handed to them by dancing night elfs in WoW and now they are really, really ****ed and need something to shoot. --- Its dead, Jim.

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