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What happened to low-sec?

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Pyroden Vangrave Opinicus Operations Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.25 16:33:00 - [301] Forgive me for not reading every page of the post, so if I'm repeating something that someone else said, I apologize. Though I'm still fairly new to eve, I have found a way to make low-sec profitable for me, which is through exploration. Since I'm doing my exploration in a covert ops, it's nearly impossible for me to loose that ship, and when I come back with a different ship to run the site, be it a miner or a combat/utility ship, the pirates have to work at finding me since I'm not at a predetermined warp spot, ie belt or planet. This makes it fairly easy to avoid getting jumped since as soon as I see someone come into system I just check my directional scanner every now and then for ships and scan probes. My operations are mainly based in low-sec, and one of the things that I love about it is the lack of people that most complain about. I know there are better ways of making isk, but exploration is what I enjoy and I enjoy doing it with less competition, so I'm willing to risk the chance that I might get popped. I don't feel the problem is with low-sec itself, but that most players are happy making isk in a safer location, or just don't understand how to increase there chances of survival enough to make it worth while. It's mainly a matter of if you actually like the risk involved with low-sec or not.
SheriffFruitfly FlyinPenguin Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:19:00 - [302] Originally by: Pyroden Vangrave Forgive me for not reading every page of the post, so if I'm repeating something that someone else said, I apologize. Though I'm still fairly new to eve, I have found a way to make low-sec profitable for me, which is through exploration. Grats on getting your site-clearing ship thru the gate camps.
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 19:32:00 - [303] Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Originally by: Pyroden Vangrave Forgive me for not reading every page of the post, so if I'm repeating something that someone else said, I apologize. Though I'm still fairly new to eve, I have found a way to make low-sec profitable for me, which is through exploration. Grats on getting your site-clearing ship thru the gate camps. So long as he is already based in low sec it isn't so hard. The bad point generally are the entry points and the pipes. His problem will be if some pirate notice him hanging around in a area and decide to hunt him. That can eat away a lot of his playtime. Living in low sec isn't so hard, the problem is if you need to move from high to low sec often (i.e. trading) or if you try to do activities that make you a easy target: - mining and - mission running in the hubs with the beast agents. Essentially if you accept to make less isk than in high sec or 0.0 and play less you can live in low sec even if you do mostly PvE.
Dacril	Posted - 2008.04.09 15:50:00 - [304] Originally by: Kale Kold It makes me laugh when i hear the excuses from carebears for not going into lowsec. Especially the hauling one. Just for information: While we pirated in the lowsec systems of Jan and Nalvula over a period of 3/4 months we had over 3,400 kills and we only ever caught 20 transport ships. That's a 1 in 170 chance of getting caught (way lower than 1%) and obviously thats without the carebear using the scanner or a scout. Carebears are their own worst enemies, through and through, because they never ever use the right ship/fitting/tactic or their balls! you dont know how to use numbers. maybe you only caught 1% of haulers only because people know they will get destroyed. furthermore, what makes you think people use more haulers than other ships? your assertion is just silly.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:06:00 - [305] This thread is counter productive low sec is right now still very active, its all location. Its about fun not isk/hr if your that worried about money you either don't like pvp anyways or you'd rather spreadsheet pen-fuk then play online games.
memphistopheles interimo	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:18:00 - [306] Low sec was designed for piracy. Its the connecting systems between player owned space and concord space. If it wasn't designed for piracy then players wouldn't be permitted to kill you, and their actions wouldn't be glorified and rewarded with negative security status.
Firkragg 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:20:00 - [307] I wouldnt mind a ransom interface just to make the whole process a bit easier. Im of two minds though about wether or not this ransom interface acts as some kinda standard agreement (i.e they accept and the pirates forced to release them). I know its nice to have the option to be evil and kill them anyways but its really hard to get people to accept ransoms now days because they assume this will happen.
Koro Kar'Amarr Amarr Black Soul's Rejuvenate	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:40:00 - [308] In game tools for bounty hunting, low sec player policing, short term security status immunity licences for people with positive standing, providing their kills are negative security / have a bounty. Give people the tools to target particularly rampant pirates. The pirates get their egos boosted, since theyre hunted/notorious, they get better combat encounters than the meagre pickings in low sec currently. The hundreds of people that come to eve everyday looking to 'bounty hunt' get skills/tools/options to do so. Pirates under pressure from bounty hunters with tools at their disposal and player police teams = more room in low sec for opportunist mining teams, ratters and whoever else. I think if some real thought was given to attracting people to low sec at the same time giving people some legal right to hunt them (also needs some system to deter just blobbing the poor little pies).. Theres alot of possibilities I think.
Rook Highwind Miners-R-us	Posted - 2008.04.09 22:10:00 - [309] Unfortunately, I can't see a general move towards losec ever taking place, for the simple reason that the reward will never ever be worth the risk, no matter how big that reward is. Think about it; the potential benefits of mining/ratting in losec are increased, so you may get an initial influx of pilots from empire. This would last two days at most, because as soon as many people started going there, all the pirates would go "hey, there's noobs in losec again! Party time!". The [likely] huge influx of pirates would mean that the chances of actually leaving losec with any more money than you took in would drop to nil, since no matter what belt you went to in any system, there'd be pirates no more than five minutes away. That's not greater risk for greater reward, that's suicide. Then all the carebears leave again, and again with the whiny pirates. The only probable solution I have thought of doesn't involve a change to losec, at least not exclusively. Introduce a new kind of rat; one that fights like a player. It employs similar tactics and fits, and fights at varying levels of skill. Introduced to missions, the numbers of rats per grid might have to be reduced somewhat due to the nature of such setups, but it would encourage 'carebears' to fly ships fitted to deal with PvP style aggression all the time. This is the only thing close to a win-win scenario I can come up with. Missioners get an enhanced chance of survival against mission-probing fgs, and thus might be more inclined to venture into losec (were the rewards to be appropriately raised at a later date when everyone was comfortable). Pirates would get more even fights,and more targets, which is what they really want. It's a little tangential, but it might work. I realise that what ~~pirates~~ whiny forum bst*rds want is a myriad of easy targets. Two words: Just No. If you want to pew pew and have lots of shiny things fall to pieces around you while you zoom around taking nary a scratch, do yourselves a favour and go play one of the slightly less realistic WWII flight sims. ______________________________________
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.09 22:34:00 - [310] I'm sorry if you never leave high sec your really missing out on a decent game. Part of the fun is the unexpect and risk that comes with it. I said this before CCP needs to watch what they do with high sec or we might just be pushed out of sandbox style game. Already I'm reading blogs of devs about BG style of pvp in 0.0.

Talon Aidian Skill Level Six	Posted - 2008.04.10 03:06:00 - [311] Edited by: Talon Aidian on 10/04/2008 03:07:05 Edited by: Talon Aidian on 10/04/2008 03:06:46 Originally by: Corstaad I'm sorry if you never leave high sec your really missing out on a decent game. Part of the fun is the unexpect and risk that comes with it. Actually, no. Lowsec is all about ambush and gatecamps, while nullsec is all about betrayal, blobgank, and politics. High sec is the only place where there is even a chance EVE can be called 'decent' anymore, and even then, team betrayal scams mean the only way to have a decent game is to reject all other players but yourself and assume everyone else is a lying, homocidal maniac looking to scam you into being their next mark. This is the reality the players of EVE have made the game, and I am really getting tired of people trying to deceive new players into thinking lowsec and 0.0 sec space are anything but meatgrinders where you either must become a slave to a megaalliance, or the one getting rolled under the blob fleets and gatecamps. Maybe some really sick people find that 'decent', but I don't. I've had my experience in lowsec and nullsec, and I wouldn't wish that on any highsec player.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.10 03:26:00 - [312] Your tired of a few people really, most people I know from in-game are people that I have killed or been killed by. Really its just a pixel ship payed by pixel money don't get all uptight about it and just have fun. You'll realize all of that if you give something new a chance. I'll repeat there is nothing wrong with low sec its either vets bored with it(happens) or carebears who talk about thing they have no clue about(gatecamps?).
Talon Aidian Skill Level Six	Posted - 2008.04.10 03:39:00 - [313] Edited by: Talon Aidian on 10/04/2008 03:40:26 Originally by: Corstaad Your tired of a few people really, most people I know from in-game are people that I have killed or been killed by. Really its just a pixel ship payed by pixel money don't get all uptight about it and just have fun. You'll realize all of that if you give something new a chance. I'll repeat there is nothing wrong with low sec its either vets bored with it(happens) or carebears who talk about thing they have no clue about(gatecamps?). Your post belies a lack of understanding that people invest a sizable amount of time, real money, and effort into this 'game', and what you call 'just a pixel ship' is another human being. This is the problem alot of PVPers have...they only see the other ship as another AI to be defeated. As for 'giving something new a chance'...I've heard that from other con artists. That aside, I can say from personal experience that your view of 'fun' is not my view. And, as I have said, I've been to 0.0 and lowsec...and seen what you call 'nothing wrong'. Betrayal, lies, dishonorable combat, slurs, inflated ego, and an absolute disdain for any concept of responsibility for one's actions or helping new players. I am simply glad I don't have your lack of morals, and that I am not forced to play alongside you.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.10 03:55:00 - [314] Hehe I guess your right you might not be good for low sec I guess . With alittle e-research I found your two kills which are in low sec you blob one BC with 5 BS,2 CS, 3 BC, 1 hac,2 cruisers,1 ceptors, and 1 AF. The other one is very conservative cruiser kill with 3 BS,and 2 BC. Both of those guys are still actively playing the game and having fun. I have no clue who ****ed in your cheerios but get over it.
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.04.10 07:22:00 - [315] Originally by: Nihilion Saro I recently decided that an honest Eve living wasn't for me and thought I'd try my hand at being a pirate. So I got myself a snazzy cruiser and took to the belts of low-sec empire looking for some roid-lubbers to gank. Lo and behold, I can't find anybody. Nobody ratting or mining in low-sec these days. What happened? It seems like the only people in low-sec are other "pirates", which just end up fighting each other. Can't something be done to give low-sec a boost? Give pilots more incentive to venture out there. I know it may some self-interested because I am just looking for chumps to deprive of their hard-earned assets, but think about it: Part of what makes MMOs what they are is that they are...well, a little bit real. The fear that pirates inspire in the hearts of noobs and carebears is real, and that is priceless. What other kind of game can inspire real emotion? The fear of a dread pirate, the sorrow of having lost your ship, or even on occasion that sweet sigh of relief after having gotten away (not likely). Do you know what I mean? CCP, seriously. The recent upgrades have been great. The graphics engine is awesome. The Apoc sorely needed a purpose and I like what you did with it. But now its time to fix low-sec. Thank you for your time. Nihilion Saro You present a problem and ask for a solution...why not present a solution? This would surely get things rolling faster. ____________________________________________ Originally by: Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2008.04.10 07:48:00 - [316] Dear non pirates Don't tell us how to do our jobs also stop putting yarr in your bio you drone region junkies don't even try it
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.10 08:29:00 - [317] Originally by: Corstaad Your tired of a few people really, most people I know from in-game are people that I have killed or been killed by. Really its just a pixel ship payed by pixel money don't get all uptight about it and just have fun. You'll realize all of that if you give something new a chance. I'll repeat there is nothing wrong with low sec its either vets bored with it(happens) or carebears who talk about thing they have no clue about(gatecamps?). Fun concept: the player that are the target of gatecamps don't have a clue about them. It is the same as saying that the people that man the gatecamps have no clue about them as they don't experience them as the target.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.04.10 09:31:00 - [318] Originally by: isdisco3 stuff I completely agree with whatever you said because I liked the days when EVE peaked with 6000 players online at prime time. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Izo Azlion Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.04.10 09:35:00 - [319] Low-Sec is in need of a boost. No, we dont need some flashy ransom button for 10% of the ships value (Thats a crap amount anyway!) nor do we need Pirate modules, or Pirate whatevers. All low-sec needs to be is more attractive. Give us better NPC's and better asteroids, and more people are going to risk it out there. Make High-sec worse than it is at the moment, because frankly, EVE isnt a PVE game. Come on CCP, 11 pages and multiple threads over the last 2 years. Its time for a little action isnt it? Izo Azlion. ---
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.10 09:47:00 - [320] Originally by: Izo Azlion Low-Sec is in need of a boost. No, we dont need some flashy ransom button for 10% of the ships value (Thats a crap amount anyway!) nor do we need Pirate modules, or Pirate whatevers. All low-sec needs to be is more attractive. Give us better NPC's and better asteroids, and more people are going to risk it out there. Make High-sec worse than it is at the moment, because frankly, EVE isnt a PVE game. Come on CCP, 11 pages and multiple threads over the last 2 years. Its time for a little action isnt it? Why people must alway follow the logic "Boost Me, Nerf the Others" ? Boosting low sec, ok, nefring high sec, why? You suffer so much that some people can have fun doing somethign you are not interested in?

Izo Azlion Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.04.10 10:11:00 - [321] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Izo Azlion Low-Sec is in need of a boost. No, we dont need some flashy ransom button for 10% of the ships value (Thats a crap amount anyway!) nor do we need Pirate modules, or Pirate whatevers. All low-sec needs to be is more attractive. Give us better NPC's and better asteroids, and more people are going to risk it out there. Make High-sec worse than it is at the moment, because frankly, EVE isnt a PVE game. Come on CCP, 11 pages and multiple threads over the last 2 years. Its time for a little action isnt it? Why people must alway follow the logic "Boost Me, Nerf the Others" ? Boosting low sec, ok, nefring high sec, why? You suffer so much that some people can have fun doing somethign you are not interested in? Because if you leave the good ores, good missions all in high sec, why would someone come to low-sec for only slightly more gain at alot more risk? Its exactly how it is now, except theres not as much gain in low-sec. Unless you made Low-Sec significantly better, at which point, Empire would look nerfed anyway. Izo Azlion. ---
Andre Marconius Gallente House Of Troy	Posted - 2008.04.10 10:22:00 - [322] Edited by: Andre Marconius on 10/04/2008 10:22:34 Christ stop MOANING about low-sec. If you dont like it dont go there. I mine, pvp and do missions in low-sec with absolutely no problems and still make enough money to do what I want. I like low-sec because there is hardly anyone there and personally I want it to stay that way.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.04.10 10:24:00 - [323] No no its not true L4 agents of doom have said so.
Izo Azlion Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.04.10 10:54:00 - [324] Originally by: Andre Marconius Edited by: Andre Marconius on 10/04/2008 10:22:34 Christ stop MOANING about low-sec. If you dont like it dont go there. I mine, pvp and do missions in low-sec with absolutely no problems and still make enough money to do what I want. I like low-sec because there is hardly anyone there and personally I want it to stay that way. Irony. Izo Azlion. ---
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.10 11:11:00 - [325] Originally by: Izo Azlione Because if you leave the good ores, good missions all in high sec, why would someone come to low-sec for only slightly more gain at alot more risk? Its exactly how it is now, except theres not as much gain in low-sec. Unless you made Low-Sec significantly better, at which point, Empire would look nerfed anyway. "The good ores in high sec" .... they are the same they were 2 years ago when I started, the change is the price players are willing to pay for them. No high end minerals from high sec ores (no zydrine, no megacyte). So your problem isn't that high sec has good ores (or you feel that veldspater is a good ore?) but that the high hends value has dropped. "good missions all in high sec", again not true, level 5 are in low sec, level 4 high quality agents are in low sec, pay and LP are increased when the security of the system is lower. Again there is not special higher rewards in high sec, they are all lower. What has changed is that LP are worth less across the board and the chance of getting caugth wile doing a mission increased. "Unless you made Low-Sec significantly better, at which point, Empire would look nerfed anyway." You can have trouble getting it, but it is the way to go. If you simply nerf high sec the net effect is that people will have to grind more to get the resources to go in low sec, most of them will see the game as a constant grind and leave the game before they will enter low sec, the others will be mostly people with a high tollerance for grind and little interest for risk and will not enter low sec. End result, still not increase of presence in low sec.
Vhor Kataar	Posted - 2008.04.10 12:05:00 - [326] "I want to gank someone but noone's there. Something must be done to make people want to get ganked!" Isn't that ... erm... Well the OP is the reason for not going to low-sec. You get "ganked". Meaning "killed without having a chance." You want people in low sec? REMOVE THE GANKERS That would not help the pirates though, would it?
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.10 12:09:00 - [327] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/04/2008 12:12:29 Q: "What's wrong with low-sec." A: "Low-sec is fine, stop assuming low-sec is broken." That's all there is to it. To the OP: You need more practice before you start moaning about low-sec. Most of the art of piracy IS finding targets in the first place - low-sec piracy is, I'm sure, very different from 0.0 ops you are used to in Triumvirate. I used to be a low-sec ratter before I got into low-sec piracy, so I try to think "Hm, where would I go?" ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Tobias Creed Minmatar Draconian Toymaker Corp	Posted - 2008.04.11 08:13:00 - [328] Edited by: Tobias Creed on 11/04/2008 08:14:01 I have to endorse the earlier proposed solution of no sec status hits on negative sec status targets, as well as a bounty system equal to clone cost. (whoever came up with that, it's brilliant.) Personally, I would make it so that at -.1 sec status, your bounty is 10% of your clone grade, at -.5 50%, and at -1 your full clone cost. I think the solution to lowsec is to make anti-piracy viable. Then the pirates can get their PVP, and the miners and explorers can get their protection. edit: also, my picture just now finally shows up in forums! \o/ ----- CCP has determined that some alliances were gaining an unfair advantage through the ability of their players to log in. They responded by nerfing boot.ini
City Chick	Posted - 2008.04.11 08:20:00 - [329] Edited by: City Chick on 11/04/2008 08:20:52 Low sec needs million isk bs's in the belts, make the reward worth the risk. Why go into low sec when you can run level 3 missions in new caldari without risk for the same reward in npc bounties.
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.04.11 08:28:00 - [330] Originally by: Brisco County Low sec miners have been over-fished because every 2 bit PvP'er fancies themself a pirate. It's only natural that no miners would want to go to low sec with swarms of nano'd HACs waiting to gank them. Miners either seek the protection of CONCORD or nullsec alliances, because low-sec corps don't want to bother with protecting their industry. Its like a bunch of old fat guys and frat boys running around a nude beach wondering where all the hot naked chicks are. Of course the women are going to stay at home under such conditions. Brilliant assessment, but I REALLY did not need that imagery. -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.



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