Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Burnharder
Tiny Industries
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:39:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Brun Thorvald Because it's too easy to be a pirate, and therefore we have too many pirates.
If being ganked was a once-a-week thing, then losec would be full.
But it isnt - its a once an hour thing. Maybe more.
Therefore, why mine in losec when you can make decent to good money mining Plag in 0.7 space ?
Make it harder to be a pirate via no insurance, anti-pirate missions, fixing bounties so they work and making the way to get security rating back to be ganking pirates in their ships rather than ganking dumb rats in 0.0, and we'll see fewer pirates and therefore more people in losec.
But piracy is EZ-mode. You summed it up - "So I got myself a snazzy cruiser and took to the belts of low-sec empire looking for some roid-lubbers to gank" ... no work, no effort, maybe a 40 million isk investment.
So whine, gankbear, whine.
This!
btw, I'd love to head back to low sec sometime, just because it's a bit quieter on the whole, but the cognitive burden I'll encounter as I'll have to engage with the game from undocking moment to docking back up again is just too much. Grinding roids is only fun if you can multi-task with other stuff at the same time.
It's no different to 0.0 out there you know (might as well make it 0.0 to be honest).
|
DrefsabZN
SteelWolves Final Unity
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:42:00 -
[32]
As an old player returning with a new account I tried to go out into low sec and explore and yup guess what ran in to gate camps of several cap ships. I didnt even get time for my screen to load up in the new system before I was dead thanks to the smartbombs. The thing is I wasnt in a weak ship but unless I had something stupidly powerful I just wasnt getting through.
Then when I got through after they had logged off, I find that the asteroids mostly gone (not that I mine but I thought I would have a look), the rats are weak and that mission running isnt good because I got ganked while running one.
True I can join a big corp I can get some friends and try to fight it out (not with cap ships though because its to early for me to be doing that). Or can sit off in secure space, make LOTS of money from mission running while I train up the skills to get into a big corp that can protect its space. Its boring as hell but as least Im not going into something I have no chance of winning. Most players dont want easy mode in low sec they just want a chance.
|
Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:42:00 -
[33]
Problem is that it's not cost effective to have a mining op in lowsec with escorts when you can put those escorts into barges and make more isk in hisec.
If you gate camp you'll still catch a lot of stuff, but belt piracy is dead... sure you'll catch the occasional noob who comes out to rat some belts, but it's a rare sight.
|
Jack Jombardo
The Last Samurais
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Xyn Rhais People have these naive ideea that if lowsec had a lot of rewards carebears would move in. No, if lowsec had lots of rewards, 0.0 alliances would start claiming chunks of it.
You can't make it worthwile for carebears in lowsec simply by upping the rewards a lot.
Yea, becouse most pirates do not like close to fair fights. They want easy kills where the changs to lose is close to not existing.
typical Pirate: 1) jump in his cloaked ship to check what the other flys 2a) is it a easy kill? -> jump in his superior killing machine and gang *harr* rofl 2b) is it a posible close fight or lose? -> stay cloaked or dock again waiting for the next posible sheep
Most non-priates have more balls then the selve called pirates there as this non-pirates went into the dangures space with underperforming ships while this wanabe Rambos never fight without superior equip on there side ;).
|
Kharsis Khasm
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Or have a deployable that "claims" a belt temporarily. Anyone warping to the belt gets a message that it is essentially an NBSI zone for ALL parties. While active if pirates warp in guards can engage immediately with NO sec hit (likewise pirates get no sec hit if they shoot first). The deployables of course would be temporary and could be limited to having only one active for the person who dropped it (and they must remain in the area or the deployable self destructs).
This sounds like a good, creative idea.
|
Cygnus Scott
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:53:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Cygnus Scott on 14/03/2008 15:53:04
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
I doubt they like to go around low-sec aimlessly for hours trying to find a good fight like the rest of us.
Here is part of the problem, most pirates aren't looking for a good fight they are looking for a kill mail no matter how crappy a kill it is. If pirates were more judicious in their attacks there would be more targets, however it doesn't matter if its a faction fit ship or a L1 frigate with civilian mods both are killed (and likely podded) without regard to how profitable the kill is.
If you look at predators in the wild they don't go in an slaughter the entire herd they take a few and let the rest move on, that way the food supply isn't wiped out. Pirates slaughter everything and nobody comes to low sec reducing the number of targets. Most pirates are even dumb enough to rejoice over the whole can & wreck thing showing up on the directional scanner now, everything that increases risk of low sec, even if its small, without a balancing increase to reward is bad for the population numbers of low sec. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:57:00 -
[37]
Who says low-sec is broken (other than a few hundred threads)?
It could be that low-sec is just not-working exactly the way CCP wants it to not-work.
|
Nihilion Saro
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:58:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Nihilion Saro on 14/03/2008 16:01:19
Originally by: Ieu Duin I completely understand your request. What is befuddling is the complete misunderstanding that the reason there are no "roid-lubbers to gank" is because of you and your ilk.
Like it or not, my "ilk" and I are an important part of the game. Think about it, we put the risk in the "risk vs. reward" balance that justifies greater rewards in low-sec (which we agree are missing currently). Further, without pirates there would be no "anti-pirates". I remember in the old days I got my start in PvP as part of an "Anti-Pirate" corporation, whose mission it was to keep a single low-sec pocket clean and open for development by miners and industrialists.
There is a whole world of gaming in low-sec that is simply gone for the most part. To me, it is the precarious balance of dangers and opportunities that inspire people to come together and organize themselves for a collective purpose, be it piracy, anti-piracy (collective security), or economic development (carebears).
Already in this thread there has been some thoughtful considerations of the problems facing low-sec and some potential solutions. I don't know which ones are best: I leave that to CCP. But my point is that something must be done, because in all honesty an important part of the game is just broken.
|
Cory Sopapilla
Kiroshi Group
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 15:58:00 -
[39]
The solution is simple.
1) Decide, do you want to be a PVP pirate corp or a carebear pirate corp that only attacks defenseless ships. If PVP, go on to step 2. If not, stop here as you have answered your own question - nobody wants to risk a mining ship and a full set of +5 implants for slightly more ISK/hr mining to someone who wants to pvp but targets only defenseless ships. 2) Have your "pirate" corp all move to a low sec location of your choice. 3) Build a reputation of "owning" this system (it's empty anyway, right?) and a good reputation for protecting miners. Once this is in place the carebear pirates will come to you in your target rich environment. If the protection is good, the miners will come to you and the circle will be complete.
If it is good enough, miners like me would even pay for the protection with a % of the mining. You can tell by scanning their ship how much ore they can pull in per hr and charge accordingly. If you have enough leadership skills, all of the miners could be in your fleet and share bonuses and get the carebear pvp'ers flashing red for you. However, if you're going to charge, you would have to offer some kind of insurance for failure to protect such as replacement of implants and ship mods.
|
Cygnus Scott
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Brun Thorvald Because it's too easy to be a pirate, and therefore we have too many pirates.
If being ganked was a once-a-week thing, then losec would be full.
But it isnt - its a once an hour thing. Maybe more.
Therefore, why mine in losec when you can make decent to good money mining Plag in 0.7 space ?
Make it harder to be a pirate via no insurance, anti-pirate missions, fixing bounties so they work and making the way to get security rating back to be ganking pirates in their ships rather than ganking dumb rats in 0.0, and we'll see fewer pirates and therefore more people in losec.
But piracy is EZ-mode. You summed it up - "So I got myself a snazzy cruiser and took to the belts of low-sec empire looking for some roid-lubbers to gank" ... no work, no effort, maybe a 40 million isk investment.
So whine, gankbear, whine.
Most Pirates try to convince everyone Piracy is so difficult...its really not.
See here what I mean here and in the thread linked in it.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. |
|
Burnharder
Tiny Industries
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cory Sopapilla The solution is simple.
1) Decide, do you want to be a PVP pirate corp or a carebear pirate corp that only attacks defenseless ships. If PVP, go on to step 2. If not, stop here as you have answered your own question - nobody wants to risk a mining ship and a full set of +5 implants for slightly more ISK/hr mining to someone who wants to pvp but targets only defenseless ships. 2) Have your "pirate" corp all move to a low sec location of your choice. 3) Build a reputation of "owning" this system (it's empty anyway, right?) and a good reputation for protecting miners. Once this is in place the carebear pirates will come to you in your target rich environment. If the protection is good, the miners will come to you and the circle will be complete.
If it is good enough, miners like me would even pay for the protection with a % of the mining. You can tell by scanning their ship how much ore they can pull in per hr and charge accordingly. If you have enough leadership skills, all of the miners could be in your fleet and share bonuses and get the carebear pvp'ers flashing red for you. However, if you're going to charge, you would have to offer some kind of insurance for failure to protect such as replacement of implants and ship mods.
So your solution here (I can see it in embryonic form), would be for a corp to be able to get a contract to run station services at any given station and thereby set tax % on minerals refined.
Actually, I quite like it. How do we decide who gets the station services contract though?
|
DrefsabZN
SteelWolves Final Unity
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:03:00 -
[42]
Thats the thing a fair fight is a VERY VERY VERY rare thing in eve its normally pure gank, increasing the rewards will bring more people true but it brings more gankers. Maybe they can make jump gates dump people out at larger distance with greater randomization so they people have more chance of running getting through camps. Maybe sensor damps on gate, but the dampening and randomization reduces the low and low the system sec status gets.
If people had a decent chance of getting through these systems and it gets harder and harder the closer you get to 0.0 this might help the matter.
|
Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Cory Sopapilla If it is good enough, miners like me would even pay for the protection with a % of the mining. You can tell by scanning their ship how much ore they can pull in per hr and charge accordingly. If you have enough leadership skills, all of the miners could be in your fleet and share bonuses and get the carebear pvp'ers flashing red for you. However, if you're going to charge, you would have to offer some kind of insurance for failure to protect such as replacement of implants and ship mods.
This is part of the problem.
1) Effective guarding is difficult and short of a very serious and *sustained* effort miners will still get popped.
2) Perhaps more importantly, by the time you are done paying guards enough to make it worth their time, you will find it FAR more profitable to mine just about anything in hi sec. Not to mention a lot safer and simpler.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
|
Nyabinghi
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Durzel I love the way the OP says "It seems like the only people in low-sec are other "pirates"" without apparently realising the irony of the words. Low-sec is the ultimate self-defeating prophecy - people who go there do so with the intention to find "chumps to deprive of their hard-earned assets". Is it little wonder therefore that people who have no interest in that side of the game avoid it entirely?
Yeah definitely this.
Pirates like to thump chest and say how much they love PVP combat and that you should fight or go play WoW, but more often than not all they want is easy targets to provide them with entertainment by blowing up and handing over their loot.
On another note neither minerals, ratting, mission running is profitable enough in low sec to warrant the possible ship loses that can/will occur.
***
|
Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:07:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ulstan on 14/03/2008 16:08:02 Low sec mining is usless due to the terrible price of iso and nocx.
Low sec ratting is useless since rats there are barely better than hi sec.
Low sec missioning is would be extremely lucrative if you could pull it off. However, given that the pirates know where all the agents are and that scanning out a mission runner in a mission is quite easy, very few people manage to run missions without getting jumped by pirates. If you warp away as soon as you see probes in the system, your earning rate is terrible and you'd be better off mining in hi sec. If you dont' warp away they'll get your ship and then you'd be better off sitting in a station doing nothing :p
Changing the latter is extremely difficult because it would involve nerfs to piracy, but upping the rewards of belt rats, explorations, and mining is fairly easy and wouldn't require any nerfs to piracy. It should be done pronto!
Then they should rebalance the vast swathes of crappy 0.0 space where you get 650k BS.
|
Zarquon Beeblebrox
Muchacho's
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:10:00 -
[46]
It easy. Move lvl 1 agents to 1.0 Move lvl 2 agents to 0.5 Move lvl 3 agents to < 0.4 Move lvl 4 agents to 0.0
Lady Beeblebrox
Tundragon & Teddybears Memorial Forum
|
Nigel Tell
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:19:00 -
[47]
What possible incentive could you give me to become easy prey? What possible incentive could you give me to become your method of enjoying Eve?
Quote: The fear that pirates inspire in the hearts of noobs and carebears is real, and that is priceless.
Priceless to whom?
|
Drethon
Selinir
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:26:00 -
[48]
My briefly thought out 0.02ISK
Make haulers and mining barges hard to lock. If the fastest locking ships in eve take 30-60 seconds (hmm, maybe 10 seconds since not everyone runs around in fast locking inties) to lock a hauler or mining barge, then the miners and haulers have time to warp out if someone comes after them. If they don't warp out in time, they aren't paying attention.
This also helps with haulers running through gate camps. Running on autopilot will still get you ganked but anyone paying attention can warp through most gate camps by being careful.
With this system, industrialists can operate in low sec with safety as long as they are paying attention and pirates get more targets to try and gank. (though paying attention to the scanner is probably better anyway...)
Just a thought. ____
"I may not believe in what you believe in but I will fight to the death to protect your right to believe." |
AleRiperKilt
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:33:00 -
[49]
*sigh* yet another pirate whining for easy targets thread
Dude, people don't go lowsec because they get ganked. If you want them in lowsec keep all other pirates away, specially these yarr KM-whoring noobs. Predators from one herd don't allow other herds anywhere close to their feeding grounds.
--- 1. Fit wrong stuff to ship 2. Post screenshot in Eve Forums 3. ???? 4. PROFIT! |
Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:34:00 -
[50]
There is no anti-piracy in Eve. There is no distinction between a pirate and an anti-pirate. Consequences are the same for both, except piracy brings in more fun and more rewards to the player looking for PVP.
Low sec should become a true free-for-all where anyone with a security status of less than 0.0 can be shot on site without any repercussions to the aggressor. As it is right now it is very difficult to anti-pirate without becoming a pirate yourself, unless you're shooting at -5.0s and less or doing your shooting in 0.0.
Also, to make gatecamps more interesting to the campers in low sec, CCP should consider adding e-war guns alongside the current gate guns. How fun would it be if campers were randomly warp-scrambled, ecm'd, webbed, and/or TD'd when committing crimes near the gates .
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
|
Kale Kold
V i r u s
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:42:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Frogzuk There are many reasons as to why people dont venture into low sec, and one of the main ones is the introduction of capital ships camping the gates. New players learn very quickly that they have next to no chance of gaining access to low sec when there are several pirates that happen to camp in smartbombing cap ships. And before you scream 'adapt or die' or 'join an alliance' or 'make a gang to include hics' .. i would like to point to you the pirate as a major factor in the dimise of lowsec
The dimise of low sec is in fact a pirate issue that needs to be considered before looking at whether low sec is attractive or not. If pirates where to step out of the disco caps and return to traditional pirating methods perhaps we would see more pilots in eve actually going into low sec looking for a duel or an adventure, taking that risk...
froggy
Actually thats completely wrong! Pirates used to have it easy but not anymore. Not many pirates own, let alone use cap ships for pirating. Whole pirate corps are going out of business due to lack of targets and being ganked by huge PvP alliances with cap ships.
Ideas:
1). Cap ships should be banned from everywhere but 0.0 (this will make pirates happy) 2). Huge (non-self claimable) bounties should be put on pirates (-5.0 outlaw chars). (this will make anti-pies happy) 3). Complexes should be brought back and top ores in the belts. (This will make the carebears happy.)
|
Durzel
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:48:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Xyn Rhais People have these naive ideea that if lowsec had a lot of rewards carebears would move in. No, if lowsec had lots of rewards, 0.0 alliances would start claiming chunks of it.
You can't make it worthwile for carebears in lowsec simply by upping the rewards a lot.
But isn't that exactly what the pirates want? A fight?
Or are they just looking for defenceless prey?
I have a good idea which one low-sec pirates prefer...
|
Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 16:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kale Kold Ideas:
1). Cap ships should be banned from everywhere but 0.0 (this will make pirates happy) 2). Huge (non-self claimable) bounties should be put on pirates (-5.0 outlaw chars). (this will make anti-pies happy) 3). Complexes should be brought back and top ores in the belts. (This will make the carebears happy.)
1) Taking down POS without cap ships is a real pain (enough of a pain with cap ships).
2) Not possible. Just have a mate pod you and collect the bounty and give it to you (or use a second account to pod yourself).
3) It is waaaay too easy for pirates to camp plexes. Top ores would just tick off 0.0 folk.
However, to enable anti-pies more I think there should be a Kill Rights market. Say I am a noob carebear and get ganked...I cannot really go after the pies myself. Instead I should be able to sell/trade/give my kill right to someone else...add in the bounty part there. Then that guy who is more capable/willing can go hunt the pirate with no worries about sec status and so on.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
|
Kolwrath
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:01:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Kolwrath on 14/03/2008 17:06:55
Originally by: Zarquon Beeblebrox It easy. Move lvl 1 agents to 1.0 Move lvl 2 agents to 0.5 Move lvl 3 agents to < 0.4 Move lvl 4 agents to 0.0
Vast amounts of empire carebears cry out in horror. Vast amounts of empire carebears quit eve. Vast amounts of 0.0 alts of empire carebears are also gone. Vast amounts of pirate alts of empire carebears are also gone. Player base shrinks. Markets get shaken to the foundations as large amounts of customers simply disappear. Player base shrinks some more. EVE becomes less of a media attention grabber due to low popularity. Player base shrinks even more. CCP closes EVE due to low subscriptions.
So yeah ... not a good idea.
Originally by: Chaos Space Marines
Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
|
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:03:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ishakaril Wouldn't it go a bit like this:
1) Boost reward for non-pirates in low sec 2) More targets for pirates in low sec 3) More pirates go to low sec 4) Risk goes up 5) Less targets again
No matter what the "rewards" are in low sec, the number of pirates will be determined by the amount of targets. So the more reward, the more pirates and the risk/reward ratio remains the same.
QFMFT.
I can't believe some people have such a hard time grasping the real issue with low-sec. Tho, seeing as most people who do, are looking for easy targets, I'd wager why they do...
Low-sec is fine. A PvE fit has no chance against someone who is out looking for some PvP pirating. So it's almost zero risk for the pirate, factor in risk vs. reward and I'd say low-sec is pretty much how it should be in concern to pirate reward.
Forcing more easy targets in juicy PvE set-ups into low-sec would skew the risk vs. reward vastly in favor of the pirates.
Now if it's not risk vs. reward you are looking for, but just some good old pew pew? 0.0 is just on the other side ( and they even fight back some of the time ).
|
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:06:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Burnharder Actually, I quite like it. How do we decide who gets the station services contract though?
The mechanic is already in place. Conquerable stations. Wage war against your competitors and claim it... good fun eh?
|
Primnproper
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:20:00 -
[57]
I've always thought the easiest solution to the 'lowsec problem' is to make it so that there are resources in each type of space which are only found in that type of space, say the materials for T3 only being in lowsec for instance.
That way the only way for there to be a supply would be if people mined there and therefore if it was really danagerous the prices would be higher and so it would always be worth the risk. |
Aria Selenis
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:25:00 -
[58]
Why do so many make it seem like the bounty system is impossible to fix? Solution seems simple enough...
Remove players needing to add bounties. Make the bounty automatic based on security status, a percentage of the value of the pirates current clone.
Possible 20% at -1, finishing at 100% at -5, with a linear scale in between. This way, every pirate will have a bounty, encouraging more anti-pirates. Also, since the value is calculated off the value of your current clone, it's impossible to just have an alt or friend pod you to collect the bounty.
Sure. You -could- still pod yourself with an alt. But you could never gain more than the value of your clone, so it would defeat the point.. you gain a million isk and pay a million isk for the new clone. The bounty is still on you, as your security status has not risen. (As previously said, bounty would be from CONCORD and not player bounties.) If you had any implants, it would be even more counter-productive.
Not to mention, it gives a bonus for those who go after the more skilled pirates. You kill a low SP pirate, you get a small bounty (similar to killing an easy npc). Kill a pirate with 70M sp, and you're looking at 14 million ISK in bounty alone.. risk vs reward.. go for the easy targets, or the profitable targets?
I don't really see a downside to this. The pirates can't cheat the system, the anti-pirates / bounty hunters get a system that actually works, and rewards them for going after more difficult prey.
|
AleRiperKilt
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:26:00 -
[59]
Although a noob and self-proclaimed carebear I think lowsec is the way it should be: a barren, harsh piece of space nobody should dare to go.
- Right now there are too many pirates, so carebears don't go, most of these pirates will bore and find something else to do or quit the game. - Smart pirates will realize easy pray are scarce, so they will hunt down other pirates and protect their territory so it appears "safer" to carebears (survival of the fittest) - Lowsec will self-balance to the point carebear to pirate ratio will be profitable.
So no, stop whining. You won't get more easy pray. You will have to work for it.
BTW: can I have your stuff?
--- 1. Fit wrong stuff to ship 2. Post screenshot in Eve Forums 3. ???? 4. PROFIT! |
Kyoto Luyi
MX3 Development Zzz
|
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Xyn Rhais People have these naive ideea that if lowsec had a lot of rewards carebears would move in. No, if lowsec had lots of rewards, 0.0 alliances would start claiming chunks of it.
You can't make it worthwile for carebears in lowsec simply by upping the rewards a lot.
This. All the way. Read it and weep... -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :) |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |