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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.04.13 09:25:00 -
[211]
 Quote:
That is not a suprise comment coming from an Amarrian! PIE is well known for it's mistreatment of others. I would not expect any less from you Hardin.
My comments were from a personal persepctive and not official PIE policy. As for its mistreatment of others - the only people who may get mistreated are Minmatar terrorists and maybe the odd Gallente wench 
Quote:
Although I beleive you misinturpret the far reaching consequences of angering so many people. It is quite obvious that more then just a few people were unhappy about this. NFA also has old enemies that've never gone away... Which will no doubt take advantage of the chaos in Fountain at the moment.
Maybe this is the case... Maybe you will prove me wrong. But from my perspective as a third party with no direct involvement it certainly seems that Xanaud and the FA have served up a 'fait accompli' and those evicted are on the backfoot. But that is only an impression. Maybe the reality is greatly different. As you said only time will tell 
As for anger... well pirates anger literally hundreds of pilots every day of the week. PIE angers Minmatar's everytime we destroy a terrorist ship. But pirates and PIE are still here. I wouldn't count on anger providing fuel for more than a few weeks of attempted reprisals. Then people will move on. It is inevitable. As far as I can see Xanadu and FA have taken the rug from under your feet and I really doubt you will be able to get it back...
As a neutral third party with no involvement in the Fountain area it doesn't really matter to me either way whether you do or not... I am fully prepared to eat humble (forgive the pun) 'PIE' if you do succeed.
Despite this my original view that this was a well executed and irresistible move by Xanadu and FA still stands.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.04.13 09:34:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Hardin on 13/04/2004 09:35:41
Quote:
Nothing amazing happened since last night obviously except for the surprising addition of Hardin of PIE inc jumping on the Xanadu bandwagon? That came out of nowhere!
Are PIE looking for a 0.0 home all of a sudden? 
As I said above my comments were from a personal persepctive and not official PIE policy.
As for looking for a 0.0 home PIE has been offered membership in at least 3 separate regional alliances over time and rejected thses offers.
It is our view that this would compromise our position as 'Defenders of the Amarr Empire'. After all how can we defend it when we are based outside it!
It is a moral standpoint similar to our decision to only fly Amarrian ships and to not sell our Malediction Interceptors to Minmatars...
It has its disadvantages (in terms of ISK) but it means we can't be accused of 'selling out'
I wish I had never said anything now
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Shirei
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Posted - 2004.04.13 10:38:00 -
[213]
What triggered this coup was probably less the desire to 'remove dead weight', although some of the corps that organised it probably took kicking a few corps at least as a welcome addition. If removing dead weight had been the sole or main purpose, there would have been a more objective assessment about what each corp had contributed to the alliance, which did not really take place. So apart from HVI/HHI, who had quite a few disagreements with them earlier, eventually the corps that were kicked were either those that were too vocal in criticising some of the things the corps involved in the coup were doing/suggesting beforehand, those that were not vocal enough about how they contributed to the alliance (only comparatively few people were involved in deciding which corps got kicked so they probably only had a quite vague idea about how much each of the smaller corps was contributing) or also those who really took FA as a free ride (there is not really very much point in denying that some corps were probably doing that).
However, it seems more like the coup's main purpose was to increase the influence and power of the involved corps within the alliance. The changes outlined in the original internal announcement of the coup seemed to be aimed at moving a lot of power/responsibility from the council (it will only convene half as often as before and can consequently not react quickly enough to take any very significant influence on day-to-day decisions anymore) to a newly established/renamed 'high command' made up of representatives from a smaller group of corps, which will probably make most actual decisions in the future. At least that is what the posted organisation diagram implies, I don't know what will happen in practice.
This is of course not entirely surprising, considering that the coup was at least in part triggered by the fact that Xan/BIG/etc. did not manage to get the FA council to kick HVI/HHI in the two preceding weeks (at the last meeting before the coup, only about a third of the votes cast, mostly corresponding to the corps involved in the coup, were in favour of that).
The way in which these changes were implemented (a coup with very harsh deadlines of 30 minutes to dock, putting some corps on KOS without giving them any time to move out, etc.) was of course chosen to make a point.. the point that democratic decisions in the old as well as future FA council will only be accepted as long as they agree with the line of the corps involved in the coup, which made up about maybe 30-40% of the members in the FA before, and maybe a bit more than 50% now.
If they had not wished to make that point, it would most likely not have been too hard to make similar changes simply by more forceful negotiations with the other FA members and by council decisions.
But hey, at least something is happening, would be boring otherwise. 
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.04.13 13:01:00 -
[214]
What are you talking about?
Let me some up your statements. The coup was probably this, because this probably happened becase these people probably felt this way, and because they probably couldnt get done what they probably wanted done they probably had to resort to waht they did do.
In qualifying your ignorance of the situation you have as much as admitted you should not be commenting on it, so why insist on doing so?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Agent Shield
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Posted - 2004.04.13 13:32:00 -
[215]
Quote:
What about the Techell theft? I recall a person from Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies helped with the theft in a way since he moved the ships and then stole ships from the original theif and that led to Agent Shield stealing from Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies. Quick to forget are we?
Absurd, You have it correct. It was SS Vegeta (member of Agressive Faction at the time) who helped another with the Techell theft.
Agent Shield |
BlackRain
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Posted - 2004.04.13 13:35:00 -
[216]
Close your eyes and breathe, Baun - No need to throw a hissy fit over Shirei's thoughts. Although you've played a small part in this coup, it doesn't mean everyone else would be an outsider and without information and sense to use it. Mmkay?
Arrogancy combined with aggressive manners is just naughty and rude. :)
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Talk to the hand |
Agent Shield
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Posted - 2004.04.13 13:36:00 -
[217]
Quote:
Quote:
What about the Techell theft? I recall a person from Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies helped with the theft in a way since he moved the ships and then stole ships from the original theif and that led to Agent Shield stealing from Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies. Quick to forget are we?
Absurd,
You're mistaken. Please get your facts straight before you make accusations like this in the future. If you make this accusation again, would provide some evidence to back it up?
Solwolf, I think the only thing wrong with Absurd's description is that SS Vegeta was part of Agressive Faction (AFHI), and not part of the Agressive Defense corp that AFHI merged with.
I know it was only a few months ago, but I don't think your memory is that bad.
Agent Shield |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.04.13 13:41:00 -
[218]
Quote:
Close your eyes and breathe, Baun - No need to throw a hissy fit over Shirei's thoughts. Although you've played a small part in this coup, it doesn't mean everyone else would be an outsider and without information and sense to use it. Mmkay?
Arrogancy combined with aggressive manners is just naughty and rude. :)
Can you read? I don't know who shirei is (whether he is an alt or a real character) and that did no even factor into my point. He kept qualifying his statements with maybe, probably, perhaps etc.
He was thus admitting that he had no real information but yet still found it within himself to make a conclusion anyway. It doesn't matter who actually wrote the statement. Anyone who admits they don't have full or neccesarily even partial information but nevertheless makes a conclusion that could only be drawn from such information should not have posted.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Agent Shield
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Posted - 2004.04.13 13:44:00 -
[219]
Quote:
Sim1killa.
Who are you? Sounds like disgruntled ex-AFDT member that knows everything about the theft. New alt, Agent? No? Then post with your main or please be quiet.
Now Mental, you know me better than that. I have but one 'main'; and it is of course Agent Shield.
The other 2 alts on my player account are Crew CEO who only sits in a hangar selling stuff, or occasionally going out for a pick/delivery. The other is Crew Hauler who brings minerals around the system to one location. I either post as my main; or as an alt while in his character to roleplay his position.
Thus, Sim1Killa is not me. If I remember (been many months since I seen/talked to SS Vegeta) but SS Vegeta used to 'borrow' accounts from his friends and I think Sim1Killa was one of those borrowed accounts.
Hey Sim1Killa, Is that really you or SS Vegeta borrowing the account? 
Agent Shield |
BlackRain
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Posted - 2004.04.13 14:01:00 -
[220]
Quote:
Can you read? I don't know who shirei is (whether he is an alt or a real character) and that did no even factor into my point. He kept qualifying his statements with maybe, probably, perhaps etc.
He was thus admitting that he had no real information but yet still found it within himself to make a conclusion anyway. It doesn't matter who actually wrote the statement. Anyone who admits they don't have full or neccesarily even partial information but nevertheless makes a conclusion that could only be drawn from such information should not have posted.
It is not even about whether Shirei said 'probably' or 'maybe' - it's about whether the result is accurate or not.
Pulling credibility out as an issue in this case is something I wouldn't expect from an EVE Marshal, as you're not actually the most 'credible' person to give advice to other people whether they should post under this topic or not. In other words - Drop it.
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Talk to the hand |
Fred0
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Posted - 2004.04.13 16:55:00 -
[221]
FYI Shirei was participating in the FA council long before you joined FA and was also CEI's rep at the coup meeting.
He said probably because noone knows how it will pan out yet. But those are qualified guesses and that's the reason you attacked him for wording his post tentatively I guess. Surely you see the truth in what he is posting and therefore attack him for something else. Well hello Lester Mako mk.2.
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Solwolf
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Posted - 2004.04.13 17:19:00 -
[222]
Quote:
*snip*
Solwolf, I think the only thing wrong with Absurd's description is that SS Vegeta was part of Agressive Faction (AFHI), and not part of the Agressive Defense corp that AFHI merged with.
I know it was only a few months ago, but I don't think your memory is that bad.
Agent:
This has all been covered over and over again in multiple threads and discussions, including this one. There's no point in going over it all again and again. rinse and repeat, etc.
I knew it wouldn't be long before you reared your ugly head. You know it's turned out that the 500M isk you stole, plus the unlimited Apoc BPC, all the BPO's from Cruiser level down, have turned out not to be that big of a deal.
P.S.
Eris, okay if you ever get over you Gallente phobia, then let me know. Or if you get to the States, either one.
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.04.13 19:10:00 -
[223]
Discussing moderation is also a no-no, so is trying to get a thread locked.
And as usual the no flaming and no trolling applies here as well.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.13 20:22:00 -
[224]
Quote:
really funny considering that everytime i proposed a NAP with CA i got flamed to death by XAN and BIG people on the FA forums lol
and just recently CA/C4 were still the evil pirates that are the arch enemy of the FA according to XAN and BIG
things change fast
or at least they seem to have changed ;)
You didn't know? We're like the substitute teachers of the Pirate world here in the CA... when you need a Big Ebil Conspiracy to rally the plebians, blame us! When it's no longer convenient, What Pirates? I Don't See Any Pirates And Anyway M0o Left!
We also do ebil weddings, ebil bachelor parties and ebil barmitzvahs.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.13 20:36:00 -
[225]
Quote:
Which was seen when the people who were kicked fought against m0o in the past, it just seemed to me that after they activated their weapons they started to think about something totally different, like the next system to mine in, and then all of a sudden their ship was gone.
going from fighting next to you guys to against you was the best crash-course in pvp i could've asked for. you should give college credit ,-). well worth the 'phoon i paid in tuition at the end there, where we jumped in and later moved the party to that minnie station where you counterattacked.
it seems that the people who do the most poorly when you attack are the ones who really dont want to do any fighting at all, nor learn to adapt to how it really works rather than their preconceptions... or to somehow immediately become good at it without losses. no amount of bships or fancy modules can overcome that mental block  .
Oh, and lesson for you kids out there: don't get so absorbed in micromanaging your ammo and missile loads/reloads that you drift closer to the m0ovolution horde over the station than anyone else... by like 100km... 
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2004.04.13 20:41:00 -
[226]
Quote:
Discussing moderation is also a no-no, so is trying to get a thread locked.
And as usual the no flaming and no trolling applies here as well.
i notice she doesn't mention "hitting on officers of the communications commision on official business...."
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Agent Shield
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Posted - 2004.04.13 22:02:00 -
[227]
Quote:
There's no point in going over it all again and again.
You are correct, you give nothing back to the thread except your distorted views.
Agent Shield |
Solwolf
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Posted - 2004.04.14 03:37:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Solwolf on 14/04/2004 04:23:21
Edited by: Solwolf on 14/04/2004 03:46:36
Quote:
Quote:
There's no point in going over it all again and again.
You are correct, you give nothing back to the thread except your distorted views.
Agent Shield:
I suppose you keep posting and harrassing us to show everyone how far and how ruthless you can be to win a game or an argument. I too enjoy an occaisional disagreement that can be reasoned out, if it can. Therefore I'm willing to go along with this for a little while. Tell me, what about my views are distorted? I'd like to be able to learn from my mistakes.
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Darim Jund
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Posted - 2004.04.14 04:34:00 -
[229]
Agent Shield, you are a truly pathetic man. Justifying your corp theft with another totally unrelated one. I'm sure fer0cius or another AFHI director was involved with the Playboy corp theft too or with the TTI one as well? Keep telling yourself how you were morally right with your actions, it'll make you enjoy the game more.
-------------------------------------------
Corporate Theives and their supporters: Lester Mako, Remo Williams, Sith Ewok, Aerick Dawn, Cawt Yrmanlookin
All Former HHI members.
The Proof |
Lord Zap
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Posted - 2004.04.14 12:38:00 -
[230]
Quote:
Quote:
really funny considering that everytime i proposed a NAP with CA i got flamed to death by XAN and BIG people on the FA forums lol
and just recently CA/C4 were still the evil pirates that are the arch enemy of the FA according to XAN and BIG
things change fast
or at least they seem to have changed ;)
You didn't know? We're like the substitute teachers of the Pirate world here in the CA... when you need a Big Ebil Conspiracy to rally the plebians, blame us! When it's no longer convenient, What Pirates? I Don't See Any Pirates And Anyway M0o Left!
We also do ebil weddings, ebil bachelor parties and ebil barmitzvahs.
We haven't left, if you'd bothered to check we've killed quite a few CA battleships in the last 2 weeks..
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Aneu Angellus
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Posted - 2004.04.14 13:49:00 -
[231]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
really funny considering that everytime i proposed a NAP with CA i got flamed to death by XAN and BIG people on the FA forums lol
and just recently CA/C4 were still the evil pirates that are the arch enemy of the FA according to XAN and BIG
things change fast
or at least they seem to have changed ;)
You didn't know? We're like the substitute teachers of the Pirate world here in the CA... when you need a Big Ebil Conspiracy to rally the plebians, blame us! When it's no longer convenient, What Pirates? I Don't See Any Pirates And Anyway M0o Left!
We also do ebil weddings, ebil bachelor parties and ebil barmitzvahs.
We haven't left, if you'd bothered to check we've killed quite a few CA battleships in the last 2 weeks..
Why not come kill some FA? Its so much fun!
________________
Aneu Angellus
Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
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Walking Contradiction
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Posted - 2004.04.14 14:00:00 -
[232]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
really funny considering that everytime i proposed a NAP with CA i got flamed to death by XAN and BIG people on the FA forums lol
and just recently CA/C4 were still the evil pirates that are the arch enemy of the FA according to XAN and BIG
things change fast
or at least they seem to have changed ;)
You didn't know? We're like the substitute teachers of the Pirate world here in the CA... when you need a Big Ebil Conspiracy to rally the plebians, blame us! When it's no longer convenient, What Pirates? I Don't See Any Pirates And Anyway M0o Left!
We also do ebil weddings, ebil bachelor parties and ebil barmitzvahs.
We haven't left, if you'd bothered to check we've killed quite a few CA battleships in the last 2 weeks..
Why not come kill some FA? Its so much fun!
Yes rev0luti0n needs more allies! They can't handle it alone, cause they are noobs!
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.04.14 14:08:00 -
[233]
all those quotes are really annoying to read 
And good going for tossing people out FA or NFA
This is not a hijack
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Brutus Elite
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Posted - 2004.04.14 14:13:00 -
[234]
As a proud member of the Foutain Alliance I am somewhat shocked and stunned to suddenly find that my corp (CoRM), a founder member of the FA is kicked and put on KOS.
Still no valid reason for it other than a corp member said something someone didn't like on a board...WTF is that all about.
Or is it somthing more political...Our CEO did not vote the way you wanted and so in true democratic stlye you stab us in the back....a democracy is not easy...freedom of speach is not easy...you can not have it both ways.
The FA can no longer be seen as a democracy because you don't act like one.
Personally...I don't want to leave fountain..it is my home, I have fought for my place here alongside other FA corps who I called friend....corps who pod killed me yesterday in an unarmed frigate.
Well...I hope you are all proud of yourselves and whatever reprocussions come your way, kono that you reap what you sow!
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Detaitiv
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Posted - 2004.04.14 14:23:00 -
[235]
Brutus, talks are ongoing between an FA rep and your CEO. Things should be settled soon if they don't get too drunk.
And Aneu said
Quote:
Anyway just a bit of advise, wait for the coming weeks... the opposition will rise.
I can't figure out if that has to do with Aneu's frequent mentions of keeping the CA in his back pocket, Lord Zap and him being long lost brothers, or that FSA thing he keeps going on about.
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Aneu Angellus
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Posted - 2004.04.14 14:25:00 -
[236]
Quote:
Brutus, talks are ongoing between an FA rep and your CEO. Things should be settled soon if they don't get too drunk.
And Aneu said
Quote:
Anyway just a bit of advise, wait for the coming weeks... the opposition will rise.
I can't figure out if that has to do with Aneu's frequent mentions of keeping the CA in his back pocket, Lord Zap and him being long lost brothers, or that FSA thing he keeps going on about.
No one is in my back pocket, im just stating a fact. M0o doesnt like FA, CA doesnt like FA... its nothing too strenous to understand is it? And its TFA (a corp) not FSA... thank you
________________
Aneu Angellus
Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
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teewii
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Posted - 2004.04.14 14:38:00 -
[237]
Quote:
Quote:
Brutus, talks are ongoing between an FA rep and your CEO. Things should be settled soon if they don't get too drunk.
And Aneu said
Quote:
Anyway just a bit of advise, wait for the coming weeks... the opposition will rise.
I can't figure out if that has to do with Aneu's frequent mentions of keeping the CA in his back pocket, Lord Zap and him being long lost brothers, or that FSA thing he keeps going on about.
No one is in my back pocket, im just stating a fact. M0o doesnt like FA, CA doesnt like FA... its nothing too strenous to understand is it? And its TFA (a corp) not FSA... thank you
if you are owning them, and its so mutch fun, why do you keep asking for help?
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Kakalot
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Posted - 2004.04.14 15:40:00 -
[238]
Coz in this game size does matter.
Just like you did recruit new corps into your alliance to counter the timezone issue ( maybe you dont want to be outnumbered? ). And this will be denied as well.
PS: this is a friendly post.
________________________________________________________
http://users.pandora.be/zebras/Kakalot.jpg |
Ayako
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Posted - 2004.04.14 17:21:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Ayako on 14/04/2004 17:24:21
There is still a question that never quite got answered :
Why did my corp (Carbide) got kicked out of FA with no question asked?
We were active in defending Fountain from FE and in the short conflict with CFS and yet we got shoved aside without any explanation
Asked some people and could not get a decent answer, the best one I got from a fellow corpmate is "I don't think our CEO would have accepted to join in such Undemocratic BS and be involved in a Coup d'+tat" , but I guess the NFA podding one of us pretty much meant we are unwelcome in this new FA. So much for respecting past commitment, I'm pretty sad to see Xanadu and others act this way toward their former allies and getting other corps (the so-called "we are here because we want to be here" Evol) in Fountain to ensure their supremacy.
Call me jaded but I was actually, respecting the way FA was setup, now I find it pretty sad.
And please do cut the flaming and stop having "we killed a million of your Battleships" contests in the forum, It's so childish that nobody can ever admit to losing a ship because of oversized egos.
fight and settle this in the game, not on the forums!
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.04.14 18:24:00 -
[240]
Well said Ayako. |
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