No War But Rep War: The CCP/CSM Drama Explodes

I seem to have underestimated the scope of my newfound (and, let's be honest, utterly ridiculous) e-celebrity. My CEO Update was intended to prepare this alliance for the release, in about a week, of a formal spotlight from the CSM on the topic of "FiS Neglect"; based on my experiences in the past, I assumed that if I wanted the gaming media to pay attention to what Some Guy Who Runs A Space Guild says about a niche MMO from a country surrounded by fart-water, I'd have to call in some favors and/or suck some dicks, as well as have the alliance ready to seize Slashdot/Digg/Reddit to even get the time of day from sites like PC Gamer or RPS.

Oops.

Without prompting, Eurogamer picked up the CEO Update, and then a viral media cycle kicked in - one site covered an issue and got a bunch of hits, which means every other site wanted to cover the CEO Update, and next thing you know we're in full drama mode. Rock Paper Shotgun, The Edge, Eurogamer, Gamespy, PC Gamer, Tentonhammer. I expected some in CCP to see the Update as a shot across the bow - but I expected them to hear about it on Kugu and have a chance to privately make some concessions before the CSM Spotlight came out. Instead, the media's attention means that we have launched a broadside into CCP seemingly out of nowhere, and everyone who has similar views about the downward course of EVE has looked upon what we did, judged it Good, and unloaded on CCP as well.

The reason that this situation has escalated so rapidly is twofold. One, the chart that Jester drew up (the now-infamous PCU graph used in my update) illustrates something we have felt for some time with an icy clarity. Two, after the foolishness of the Incarna launch and Monoclegate, the media was eager to report on what has become a 'story arc' of sorts. The narrative plays well - "plucky players stand up to a corporation to prevent a Sony/NGE disaster". In an industry plagued with Bobby Koticks, I suspect the average gaming reporter gets a kick out of the CSM/CCP conflicts.

So, here we stand, surrounded by a torrent of unplanned media attention. We can back off and let the dust settle, or we can increase the pressure on the suits to ensure that Flying In Space is once again something worth playing. If CCP chooses to be vindictive towards GSF or the CSM because we have dared to speak out against the neglect of spaceships in this spaceship game, we have already provided them with ample cause. After all, who would believe that this perfect storm of media coverage was an accident, not some conspiracy? I wouldn't believe it, even though it is actually the case. We must twist the knife. Now that we have found CCP's Achilles Heel, we must achieve some kind of victory for the players.


Great, I don't run a gaming news site. How can I help prevent CCP alpha-testing World of Darkness in EVE?

You can do two things to help save EVE. First, and crucially, you can ensure that the truth gets out on the main Eve Online forums, which were recently converted to a new system that allows both rapid posting (no more 2 minute timer, thank god) and +rep. As a bonus, this involves tearing a cadre of fanatical pubbies into tiny strips of flesh. It seems that there are a few very vocal badposters who believe that the problem of FiS Neglect is literally a ~goon conspiracy~, and that everything would just be peachy in Eve Online if CCP just buffed hisec missions (again).

We do not want to spam or obliterate the Eve-O forums; instead we must take stern control of the narrative there to ensure that the badposters in that cesspit are not heeded by anyone of consequence.

Secondly, generate hits on media stories covering the FiS Neglect crisis. The gaming media functions on a shoestring budget and is desperate for traffic; we have learned since 2007 that the best way to get the media to pay heed is to give them the traffic they are so desperate for, rather than spamming forums indiscriminately and hoping someone deigns to write about the cacophony. A profit-driven scalpel is needed, rather than a sledgehammer. (I have a suspicion that being on the inside at TTH has taught me some useful methods to leverage gaming coverage, but we'll see if this works. No guarantees.) You can generate hits by linking articles that cover topics we favor on social media, or you could simply comment on their articles and provoke discussions.

The following stories have broken thus far. Read them, spread them, ensure that the media learns that it's entirely to their benefit to listen to us and take our side:

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/ccp-accused-running-eve-online-ground
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-05-eve-csm-chairman-breaks-the-peace - This site scooped the story, and caused all this.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/09/05/eve-online-stellar-council-head-hits-out-at-ccpPCgamer
http://gamers.5starhot.info/news-eve-csm-chair-mittani-breaks-the-peaceGamerZone.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/09/06/eves-csm-fight-back-and-some-thoughtsRock Paper Shotgun- This one is particularly good. Get it everywhere.

This copy pasta is missing something....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/Numismancer/sitkamope.jpg

Much better.

Did The Mittani set CCP to -5 or -10? Where are we at here in the impending rep war?

Apologies, but I'm missing the "declaration of war" in that. Could you highlight it for me?

Thanks in advance,

stuff

If CCP Just decides to ban the complaining players and i would assume the goons period, i get the feeling the media coverage so far would be nothing compared to the bad publicity CCP would get following that. and while your average player might not care, the INVESTORS will.

and demand that they pull back to one expansion in a year and to move back to the "one huge patch" deployment style.

Incremental release means they get to iron the kinks out of stuff one wrinkle at a time, rather than deploying a huge patch and having a much harder time of it due to the sheer volume of bug reports to deal with.

Of course, ensuring that there are no bug reports outstanding against Singularity would help keep the bug count on Tranquility down a little

I'd have to call in some favors and/or suck some dicks,

How's that working for you?

The incremental fixes?

The patches are buggier and still aren't fixed 6 months later despite incremental patches.

The simple fact is no amount forum posts, blogs, protests etc etc will change anything..

Gaming press says a lot of stuff, but what does it do? No publicity is bad publicity.

Apologies, but I'm missing the "declaration of war" in that. Could you highlight it for me?

Thanks in advance,

I'd have to call in some favors and/or suck some dicks

...
I want to hear what people believe needs to be worked on, not complaining about what has been.

I had always heard that InitDOT guys didn't know how to read. Thanks for the confirmation.

It's a fair point. We'll have to see if media pressure gets results, as it has in the past. The CSM believes it's our most effective tactic, as well as the only one left available to us after the attempts to fiddle with the minutes of the emergency summit.

Erm.. must of missed were media pressure has gotten results in the past.. oh my bad, got the CSM a free trip to Iceland, other then it accomplished nothing.

The Mittani is simply repeating what many people have been saying over the last couple of months and is now trying to claim credit for himself.

t20

Yes he is repeating what many players have been saying. But that is his job! He is supposed to represent players.

CSM aren't elected because they have original ideas. They are elected to represent the players views. He is finally doing this.

I agree he seems to be late to the game. But I suppose he may have been trying to be more diplomatic in his diplomacy at first and now seems to realize that won't work.

You say nothing will work. But then why even run for csm? If ccp won't listen to players no matter what then csm has no place.

As for him "trying to claim credit for himself", I'm not sure what that means. He is not pretending anything he said is original or some new discovery - quite the opposite. He is saying players are sick of this.

CCP Zulu posted what the numbers of devs working on FIS was in july of 2010. The last CSM minutes indicate that number isn't going to change. This is really what has caused 2 summers of rage players. Very few devs working on eve FIS features.

Yes there has been your token player saying "yay I'm happy for incarna." But the rage after it was released combined with the stagnant numbers has to send a message to ccp.

I'm Glad the CSM is representing the players views on this and doing whatever they can to get ccp to give us something.

I would like to say this is going to get interesting, but old and boring is more to the point.
Watching a bunch of kids throw a tantrum X-mas morning cause there getting clothes which will last them some time and are needed instead of a new toy which they will only use for an hour is really just sad.

- What I see is one sided reporting.
- No comments about Mittani's 180 degree
- No comments from CCP

Which leads too
- You have to look at the source of all this nonsense.
- No comments from CCP makes me extremely suspicious.
- The CSM is extremely quiet about this considering they are all going down with Mittani. (I see no unilateral support)
- It wouldn't surprise me if this entire thing is one giant troll.

In any case, this is a key issue now for Eve Online and its wrong to see it all as throwaway tantrums and flash in the pan angst. At this moment (as in the jita riots early this summer) at least you saw player passion and life. Better that than the placid order of the grave which is what you'll have when everyone that cares about the dream of eve online is finally unsubbed if this situation continues.

The difference between Neville Chamberlain and The Mittani is that at least Chamberlain returned from Munich with the minutes of his meeting with the brown-shirted Charlie Chaplain lookalike.

Why bother having the CSM.. that is a very good question.

Also Mittani does not represent the players, he represents a small percentage of players and what ever aspects he cares about.

All that the Mittani did was managed climb out of the arse of CCP just enough to see daylight and realise that he has accomplished nothing other then get a free trip to Iceland and it hurt his ego. So skimmed the forums and just repeated what everybody has been saying thinking that coming from him it will make a difference... which it wont.

Please tell me what has changed since the protest and the gaming media attention from a few months ago?

If anything you could say things have got worse.

We are still waiting for the minutes from the emergency drinking, sorry, meeting, updates are stil a bug ridden as ever, and communtion between the CCP and CSM apperantly has gotten so bad that they are resorting to writing blogs and delcaring War on CCP senior management.

The difference between Neville Chamberlain and The Mittani is that at least Chamberlain returned from Munich with the minutes of his meeting with the brown-shirted Charlie Chaplain lookalike.

Cearain - you posted a link to post which was first posted over a year ago by yourself which I can not be bothered reading truth be told as the title appears to have no relevance to the discussion at hand. Any chance you can just give me a short synopsis?

Mmmm and when were the unredacted minutes of that meeting officially made public? As far as I know they still haven't and won't be for another 28 years.

Hmm maybe CCP are run by the UK civil service - it'd certainly explain the bullshit and incompetence

Yeah thats my sig not really part of the post.

The short of it is players should be notified when the oppposing militia enters a faction war plex. That way they can defend it instead of leaving it to npcs.

Re: Change.

Nothing happens instantaneously. From what I've observed, changes implemented by precious CSMs don't tend to materialize until half a year or more after their election. It's a slow process, and while we all wish it could be faster, I'd prefer things be changed correctly as opposed to being done half-assed.

However, resource allocation in CCP appears to be a problem, and we'd all like to see that improved.

I guess this is what happens when you foster a gaming community based on mistrust, conflict, and an anything goes environment. You get incredibly loyal fans that will turn on you like a pack of sharks as soon as things don't go their way anymore.

CCP's been wardecced by the Goons.

To CCP I say this:

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."

I don't think there is a war or a crusade going on so much as an 'awakening'. That being said, Mittens usually runs his larger statements by the rest of us in order to ensure we all have common ground to stand on if for no other reason than to ensure our overall message is as loud and clear as possible. Time will tell just how effective we have been.

I personally believe this CSM has managed to open doors of communication with CCP that no other CSM has so far. Even amidst all of the DRAMA, there are still cordial exchanges taking place between the CSM and CCP. If nothing else, that alone will make things much easier for future CSM's.

I've said my bit about the whole mess here in my recent blog post: Reality Check. We're not really aiming to start riots and all that, but I think most players agree that something is wrong with EVE and a concerted effort by the CSM in pointing that out should be expected.

Okay fair enough and completely understandable

So if you say is true, and that realistically we should expect any change for a while, perhaps a minimum of 6 months, why only after a couple of months is the CSM or is it just The Mittani, is attacking CCP so openly?

I don't think there is a war or a crusade going on so much as an 'awakening'. That being said, Mittens usually runs his larger statements by the rest of us in order to ensure we all have common ground to stand on if for no other reason than to ensure our overall message is as loud and clear as possible. Time will tell just how effective we have been.

I personally believe this CSM has managed to open doors of communication with CCP that no other CSM has so far. Even amidst all of the DRAMA, there are still cordial exchanges taking place between the CSM and CCP. If nothing else, that alone will make things much easier for future CSM's.

I've said my bit about the whole mess here in my recent blog post: Reality Check. We're not really aiming to start riots and all that, but I think most players agree that something is wrong with EVE and a concerted effort by the CSM in pointing that out should be expected.

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

I find it hard to believe at this stage of Eve's life, that CCP won't just push on wholeheartedly with the nex store, in a hope to ride the wave of m/t success.

In my opinion, the more subs CCP loses only furthers there desire to try and make up for lost revenue by increasing sales in the nex.

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

I find it hard to believe at this stage of Eve's life, that CCP won't just push on wholeheartedly with the nex store, in a hope to ride the wave of m/t success.

In my opinion, the more subs CCP loses only furthers there desire to try and make up for lost revenue by increasing sales in the nex.

I don't think there is a war or a crusade going on so much as an 'awakening'. That being said, Mittens usually runs his larger statements by the rest of us in order to ensure we all have common ground to stand on if for no other reason than to ensure our overall message is as loud and clear as possible. Time will tell just how effective we have been.

I personally believe this CSM has managed to open doors of communication with CCP that no other CSM has so far. Even amidst all of the DRAMA, there are still cordial exchanges taking place between the CSM and CCP. If nothing else, that alone will make things much easier for future CSM's.

I've said my bit about the whole mess here in my recent blog post: Reality Check. We're not really aiming to start riots and all that, but I think most players agree that something is wrong with EVE and a concerted effort by the CSM in pointing that out should be expected.

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

I find it hard to believe at this stage of Eve's life, that CCP won't just push on wholeheartedly with the nex store, in a hope to ride the wave of m/t success.

In my opinion, the more subs CCP loses only furthers there desire to try and make up for lost revenue by increasing sales in the nex.

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

I find it hard to believe at this stage of Eve's life, that CCP won't just push on wholeheartedly with the nex store, in a hope to ride the wave of m/t success.

In my opinion, the more subs CCP loses only furthers there desire to try and make up for lost revenue by increasing sales in the nex.

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

Can you really convince a company to shift resources from what every report has told them is an ever increasing M/T model market and that the subscription model is dead?

I find it hard to believe at this stage of Eve's life, that CCP won't just push on wholeheartedly with the nex store, in a hope to ride the wave of m/t success.

In my opinion, the more subs CCP loses only furthers there desire to try and make up for lost revenue by increasing sales in the nex.

Okay fair enough and completely understandable

So if you say is true, and that realistically we should expect any change for a while, perhaps a minimum of 6 months, why only after a couple of months is the CSM or is it just The Mittani, is attacking CCP so openly?

Isn't that like a failing fast food join cranking up the price of its burgers to offset dropping sales? I can't see that strategy working for long.

The Mittani mostly likes seeing his name in lights. That's mostly what his "protest" is about. He takes whichever side gets him the most publicity. Seriously, this man has more ego than I thought it was humanly possible to have.

bla bla bla bla ... CCP always talking about patience , and slow process ... its bullsh***

That may be true.

But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

My view (and mine only) from trawling forums, reading the Fearless newsletter, seeing growth charts, plans for further games etc, is that CCP are looking to get the best return for their buck on a game that is no longer growing substantially, and probably never will again....

I don't want people to mistake what i'm saying here, I'm one of the people pleading with CCP to change their ideas.

On the inside, to the CSM, you might see "lots of exciting things coming for FiS", inside CCP hq. You speak with CCP daily.

But what do us players get?

Soon Gäó


How long do CCP think people will hang around with that terminology.

Great blog as always Seleene.

However reading it just makes me think even more that the suits at CCP simply are not interested in anything anyone, including Devs have to say.

"It's great to see again but what saddens me is how Greyscale's 0.0 road map reminds me pretty much exactly of stuff that was discussed between Dominion and Apocrypha (about 2.5 years ago). I could go back and pull out old emails and (if I still had access) meeting minutes on the internal CCP 'Trac' pages that had shitloads of similar trains of thought to them. It's all been updated and thought through again, but the core principals and goals are the same: iterate on existing crappy game play and make it more better good fun awesome"

This was happening 2.5 years ago and nothing has changed.

Why should now be any different.

....

They also need to let the players know they are doing this. Because right now players are leaving this game because they think it is abandoned. (and it has been since apoc 1.5.)

My view (and mine only) from trawling forums, reading the Fearless newsletter, seeing growth charts, plans for further games etc, is that CCP are looking to get the best return for their buck on a game that is no longer growing substantially, and probably never will again. Everyone knows what happens when you get a new project, the old one gets not only put on the back burner, but also the interest in it drops aswell.

The fact that Wis ties in with W.O.D makes it an important part of CCPs development process, added with the fact that we have been told that Eve is on the backburner whilst Dust is released, makes it hard for me to believe that Upper management will go "ok here's more resources for a game that we are kind of done with".

I find it more likely that PR will go into overdrive and try and ride out the next 12 months or so, and hope that between nex sales, and people that aren't disgruntled yet will continue to keep the wheels turning until a secondary form of income arrives.

CCP PrismX mentioned in another thread they are in the planning stages for the next development cycle so they don't really have an idea at present what is going to be scheduled for development.

The Mittani mostly likes seeing his name in lights. That's mostly what his "protest" is about. He takes whichever side gets him the most publicity. Seriously, this man has more ego than I thought it was humanly possible to have.

good points

I don't care who does it or what personal motive he may have for it, as long as Hilmar gets a firm kick in the ego gland and CCP is forced to refocus.

There was a time when CCP planned things at least a year in advance.

They had teams working on not only the next expansion, but the one after that as well. So in theory they should have an idea by now what will be in the Summer 2012 expansion.

I don't think we're going to have an SWG scenario.

So far, no NGE-type patch has been added to the game to break it on a very fundamental level.

People get angry because they like EVE, not because the hate it.

So do you think things are ok with flying in space right now? Because that's what you're saying.

Who else would you want to bring this attention to the gaming community? You? Who are you? In the context of the eve online community you are a nobody, just like I am. Whereas this issue is being brought up by the head of a group the Players voted on. He might not be who you voted for, but it doesn't make him any less the CSM chairman and the person that has a responsibility to get problems with things Joe the Plumber eve players experience which is flying in space.

In your haste to stand up for your leader, you've completely misread me. No, I don't think all is peachy with FiS, I wasn't even addressing that in my post. I was only calling out the obvious: that Mittani is an ambulance chasing, grand standing, egomaniac. That's all.

There was a time when CCP planned things at least a year in advance.

They had teams working on not only the next expansion, but the one after that as well. So in theory they should have an idea by now what will be in the Summer 2012 expansion.

I think they are in need of re-evaluating their plans right now, hence the inability to tell anyone anything at the moment.

I was only calling out the obvious: that Mittani is an ambulance chasing, grand standing, egomaniac. That's all.

I'd like to believe you, but I can't help wondering if it's because they know exactly what they're going to be doing but don't know how to tell us.

Probably true; but you would have to admit he is rather good at it.

Is it a good thing for EVE that Mittens is pontificating upon the poor state of the game?

C.

I'd like to believe you, but I can't help wondering if it's because they know exactly what they're going to be doing but don't know how to tell us.

I think it's pretty obvious at the moment with recent events that their current plan is not going over too well, and was probably quite a surprise to a lot of the project managers over there. They have been working under the impression a large percentage of the population wants Incarna. From past history of pining on the forums for years for Incarna, that probably wasn't unfounded. I just don't think they estimated what was going to be the reaction of releasing Incarna with microtransactions. They would have been better served getting Incarna out of the door faster and releasing microtransactions later. Incarna took them waaaaaaaaaaay longer than they anticipated, it was time to get everything devoted to getting it out the door so they could get back to whatever else they wanted to do....they just did the implementation wrong...now they're trying to figure out how to get things back on track after devoting so many resources for such an extended period of time, in addition to figuring out where they went wrong and what needs to be prioritized to make people shut up and stop whining over nothing.

That would make a lot of sense, one can only hope. Thing is that CCP isn't very good at making sense.

I think what caused CCP to shoot themselves in the collective foot was their vow to themselves to always do two expansions a year. But CCP has grown and it is no longer as nimble, .

[quote=Xercodo]
Our most recent expansion being Incarna saw the new turret animation which are gorgeous, but most people in 0.0 turn off anyway because they're lag-inducing. They're just visual fluff for high sec bears. None of the changes any real value to the gameplay. And of course, there was the actual "Walking in Stations". I hear a lot of its supporters bitching how people who've been wanting this for years are whining about it. Had we actually gotten it, people would have been quite enthusiastic. What we got was NOT "Walking in Stations". I think the best term I read describing it best was over on evenews24 where some guy referred to it as FAMC (Forever Alone Minmatar Closet). What we got in Incarna was a lot of hype and a bug-ridden, unoptimized code base that's being beta tested on Eve's paying clientele. We're almost at the time for the winter expansion and the Incarna expansion that came out months ago is not even complete yet. The made Incarna's priority to roll out the NEX store and introduced the mechanic for MT. And of course, there was the utter contempt and disdain that CCP staff showed towards their clientele during this Monoclegate scandal that soiled their reputation. They lost a lot of subscriptions over that one. Biting the hand that feeds you repeatedly will only leave you starving to death. That's a lesson CCP hasn't really learned yet.

The problem is so many people are used to the model of "let's throw everything in the expansion out there and see what breaks", then companies scrambling to fix what's broken. It has been the same way across the industry for a long time. CCP decided a year or two ago to stop doing this insane "throw it all out there" approach and are releasing things when they're mostly solid and releasing the rest as it's "done". Gamers aren't used to it and when they say "we released a new EXPANSION w00t! REJOICE!" they're expecting a whole mess of **** all at once, which isn't what CCP is doing anymore. Honestly the piecemeal release makes much more sense and is less game breaking than all their other expansion releases. Unfortunately, we live in an instant gratification driven world now, and that doesn't seem to be going over well.

Respect & Results. + other good points

What about T20.... please explain excatly what changed?

Also you didn't answer my question regard the the publicity a few ago.. again what has changed?

I don't think we're going to have an SWG scenario.

So far, no NGE-type patch has been added to the game to break it on a very fundamental level.

People get angry because they like EVE, not because the hate it.

Down with this sort of thing!

not my job to do the research for some summerfag

edit: actually I just want you to stop trolling so here you go http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t20+goonswarm

in case clicking a search result is too challenging for you tth

I believe that CCP Dev was not fired

In other words you cant think of anything :)

and yes the CSM was brought about because of a CCP Dev aiding an alliance. I believe that CCP Dev was not fired and the CSM have no power so again, what changed?

so again, what changed?

and yes the CSM was brought about because of a CCP Dev aiding an alliance.

That's why nothing changed no one was ever held accountable. T20 should of been fired

He wasn't fired for his actions which warranted it. When you fail to hold employees to a reasonable expectation then you breed a culture of corruption which undermines your authority as an employer.

Has anyone ever told you that you're a badposter?

He wasn't fired for his actions which warranted it.

When you fail to hold employees to a reasonable expectation then you breed a culture of corruption which undermines your authority as an employer.

Seriously, how would you know? Talked to him or any of his former co-workers lately? Cripes.



Hey, you leave the U.S. Congress out of this!!

Out of curosity, what do you think should of been done to him?

Hey, you leave the U.S. Congress out of this!!

He wasn't fired for his actions which warranted it. When you fail to hold employees to a reasonable expectation then you breed a culture of corruption which undermines your authority as an employer.