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Viceroy
Viceroy

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Posted - 2004.04.27 13:22:00 - [61]

1) Yes, but if someone is -3 sec status, bounty hunters shouldnt be able to hunt him everywhere. Thus the good bald guys will wait for him to go to 0.0 space, whilst the bad bald guys, being ambitious and greedy and all, will risk breaking the law for some ISK.

2) What if a npc farming meany who has +4 sec status gets a bounty hunting licence? He could just kill Jack the Carebear, who got a 10k bounty from some random person when he was -1.1 (Hardly a status for an outlaw) because he "can". This would leave people who have small bounties on their heads and relativly good security status totally defenceless (Including people who got the sec hit/bounty while trying to defend their corpmembers or by making a mistake as a noob). And since bounties dont go away even if you get a +10 sec status after you get a bounty, you'll be defenceless against a certain breed of killers in empire space no matter what you do.
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Viceroy
Viceroy
Evolution
Band of Brothers

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Posted - 2004.04.27 13:22:00 - [62]

1) Yes, but if someone is -3 sec status, bounty hunters shouldnt be able to hunt him everywhere. Thus the good bald guys will wait for him to go to 0.0 space, whilst the bad bald guys, being ambitious and greedy and all, will risk breaking the law for some ISK.

2) What if a npc farming meany who has +4 sec status gets a bounty hunting licence? He could just kill Jack the Carebear, who got a 10k bounty from some random person when he was -1.1 (Hardly a status for an outlaw) because he "can". This would leave people who have small bounties on their heads and relativly good security status totally defenceless (Including people who got the sec hit/bounty while trying to defend their corpmembers or by making a mistake as a noob). And since bounties dont go away even if you get a +10 sec status after you get a bounty, you'll be defenceless against a certain breed of killers in empire space no matter what you do.
GardenerOfEden
GardenerOfEden

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Posted - 2004.04.27 21:09:00 - [63]

With respect to empire bounty hunting:

1.1. Currently a pilot with a bounty who is not also an outlaw is safer in empire space than in non-empire space because the pilot is protected by CONCORD sentries and ships, and by the fact that goodie-to-shoes pilots wonÆt take the sec status hit for an unprovoked attack. This is absurd. The pilot only has the bounty because the pilot has broken the laws of the empires within their jurisdiction, which laws then allow the placing of a bounty for the killing of the pilot. It is nonsensical to effectively have a CONCORD sanctioned death penalty on the one hand and on the other hand make it a crime to enforce that penalty. It is, however, realistic for the enforcement to be regulated, and effectively taxed, under a licence scheme.

1.2. A pilot with a bounty should be on the run and should not be able to live it up large in empire space. It would be more realistic to encounter such a pilot in deep space sheltering in pirate alliance or faction territory than, say, flying an industrial ship through Yulai! Bounty hunters may find it too risky to stalk their marks in pirate territory but they should surely be able to do so in empire space.

With respect to who should be able to hold a licence and who should have bounties:

2.1. The point you make is the reason for not being able to place a bounty on someone just because they have a negative sec status but rather requiring it to be -2 or worse, so we are talking more of Jack the Ripper than Jack the Carebear. Further, after receiving justice the pilot with relatively good sec status, by which I mean they have climbed above the bounty threshold, can then carry on as a good clone û it is only the true criminal that need fear perpetual killing but how is that unfair when such a person is likely to be a serial killer?

2.2. You should need good standing with CONCORD to get a bounty hunting licence û after all it would constitute a privileged exemption from CONCORDÆs general policing of aggressive acts against other pilots. The requirement for positive security status is really a requirement for experience since you can only get positive security status from killing pirates who co-incidentally have bounties and it provides a tangible benefit for having positive sec status beyond bragging rights and intimidation.


EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology
GardenerOfEden
GardenerOfEden
Deep Space Fishing

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Posted - 2004.04.27 21:09:00 - [64]

With respect to empire bounty hunting:

1.1. Currently a pilot with a bounty who is not also an outlaw is safer in empire space than in non-empire space because the pilot is protected by CONCORD sentries and ships, and by the fact that goodie-to-shoes pilots wonÆt take the sec status hit for an unprovoked attack. This is absurd. The pilot only has the bounty because the pilot has broken the laws of the empires within their jurisdiction, which laws then allow the placing of a bounty for the killing of the pilot. It is nonsensical to effectively have a CONCORD sanctioned death penalty on the one hand and on the other hand make it a crime to enforce that penalty. It is, however, realistic for the enforcement to be regulated, and effectively taxed, under a licence scheme.

1.2. A pilot with a bounty should be on the run and should not be able to live it up large in empire space. It would be more realistic to encounter such a pilot in deep space sheltering in pirate alliance or faction territory than, say, flying an industrial ship through Yulai! Bounty hunters may find it too risky to stalk their marks in pirate territory but they should surely be able to do so in empire space.

With respect to who should be able to hold a licence and who should have bounties:

2.1. The point you make is the reason for not being able to place a bounty on someone just because they have a negative sec status but rather requiring it to be -2 or worse, so we are talking more of Jack the Ripper than Jack the Carebear. Further, after receiving justice the pilot with relatively good sec status, by which I mean they have climbed above the bounty threshold, can then carry on as a good clone û it is only the true criminal that need fear perpetual killing but how is that unfair when such a person is likely to be a serial killer?

2.2. You should need good standing with CONCORD to get a bounty hunting licence û after all it would constitute a privileged exemption from CONCORDÆs general policing of aggressive acts against other pilots. The requirement for positive security status is really a requirement for experience since you can only get positive security status from killing pirates who co-incidentally have bounties and it provides a tangible benefit for having positive sec status beyond bragging rights and intimidation.


EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology
Shamis Orzoz
Shamis Orzoz

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Posted - 2004.04.27 23:37:00 - [65]

Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 27/04/2004 23:40:13
Originally by: Shadowthrone
Anyway it only seems to be in EVE that bounty hunters are seen as "good guys" every other fictional space universe they are see as nasty scum who will stoop to whatever lengths to get their kills, so i dont think sec status is realy that important.


I consider my corp to be mostly "nasty scum" bounty hunters, so I agree that security status should have no bearing on bounty hunting.

And I really like the tracking beacon idea Viceroy. That would help me out a lot. As things are now the only way to successfully track people is to have an alt with a lvl 3 location agent who just sits in the station all day and finds people. But you can also find people by just having some friends that are willing to do free agent searches for you when you are out hunting.
Shamis Orzoz
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion

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Posted - 2004.04.27 23:37:00 - [66]

Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 27/04/2004 23:40:13
Originally by: Shadowthrone
Anyway it only seems to be in EVE that bounty hunters are seen as "good guys" every other fictional space universe they are see as nasty scum who will stoop to whatever lengths to get their kills, so i dont think sec status is realy that important.


I consider my corp to be mostly "nasty scum" bounty hunters, so I agree that security status should have no bearing on bounty hunting.

And I really like the tracking beacon idea Viceroy. That would help me out a lot. As things are now the only way to successfully track people is to have an alt with a lvl 3 location agent who just sits in the station all day and finds people. But you can also find people by just having some friends that are willing to do free agent searches for you when you are out hunting.

fisho
fisho

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Posted - 2004.04.28 19:42:00 - [67]

first thing don't get yourself down viceroy, there are plenty of bald men with stupid guns stuck to their shoulder. Shocked

About the Bounty Hunting got to agree something ahs got to be gone, however i don't believe that it should linked to an NPC system. I think that this normally leads to abuse by players. It should be totally independant, and i believe that the way you should enter bounties from now on should be escrow style. So if you want someone to be killed you go to a bounty screen and enter conditions of your contract, ie length, reward, If the corpse has to be returned. And onece the conditions have been met the money is deliverd to the bounty hunter.
fisho
fisho
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers

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Posted - 2004.04.28 19:42:00 - [68]

first thing don't get yourself down viceroy, there are plenty of bald men with stupid guns stuck to their shoulder. Shocked

About the Bounty Hunting got to agree something ahs got to be gone, however i don't believe that it should linked to an NPC system. I think that this normally leads to abuse by players. It should be totally independant, and i believe that the way you should enter bounties from now on should be escrow style. So if you want someone to be killed you go to a bounty screen and enter conditions of your contract, ie length, reward, If the corpse has to be returned. And onece the conditions have been met the money is deliverd to the bounty hunter.
Smacktastic
Smacktastic

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Posted - 2004.04.29 00:55:00 - [69]


Yes, we need a system where we can use isk to grief as well.



----------------------------------
Moderator @ www.killer-clowns.com

Smacktastic
Smacktastic
Amarr
Doomheim

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Posted - 2004.04.29 00:55:00 - [70]


Yes, we need a system where we can use isk to grief as well.



----------------------------------
Moderator @ www.killer-clowns.com

kyuuki
kyuuki

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Posted - 2004.04.29 18:12:00 - [71]

vice, u seem to have the bounty hunting down to a tea anywayz.

why not just keep it at personal contracts.
----------
kyuuki
kyuuki
Focku Corp

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Posted - 2004.04.29 18:12:00 - [72]

vice, u seem to have the bounty hunting down to a tea anywayz.

why not just keep it at personal contracts.
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Kanaan
Kanaan

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Posted - 2004.04.29 23:09:00 - [73]

Originally by: GardenerOfEden
With respect to empire bounty hunting:

1.1. Currently a pilot with a bounty who is not also an outlaw is safer in empire space than in non-empire space because the pilot is protected by CONCORD sentries and ships, and by the fact that goodie-to-shoes pilots wonÆt take the sec status hit for an unprovoked attack. This is absurd. The pilot only has the bounty because the pilot has broken the laws of the empires within their jurisdiction, which laws then allow the placing of a bounty for the killing of the pilot. It is nonsensical to effectively have a CONCORD sanctioned death penalty on the one hand and on the other hand make it a crime to enforce that penalty. It is, however, realistic for the enforcement to be regulated, and effectively taxed, under a licence scheme.

1.2. A pilot with a bounty should be on the run and should not be able to live it up large in empire space. It would be more realistic to encounter such a pilot in deep space sheltering in pirate alliance or faction territory than, say, flying an industrial ship through Yulai! Bounty hunters may find it too risky to stalk their marks in pirate territory but they should surely be able to do so in empire space.

With respect to who should be able to hold a licence and who should have bounties:

2.1. The point you make is the reason for not being able to place a bounty on someone just because they have a negative sec status but rather requiring it to be -2 or worse, so we are talking more of Jack the Ripper than Jack the Carebear. Further, after receiving justice the pilot with relatively good sec status, by which I mean they have climbed above the bounty threshold, can then carry on as a good clone û it is only the true criminal that need fear perpetual killing but how is that unfair when such a person is likely to be a serial killer?

2.2. You should need good standing with CONCORD to get a bounty hunting licence û after all it would constitute a privileged exemption from CONCORDÆs general policing of aggressive acts against other pilots. The requirement for positive security status is really a requirement for experience since you can only get positive security status from killing pirates who co-incidentally have bounties and it provides a tangible benefit for having positive sec status beyond bragging rights and intimidation.




Pretty much nails it.

How about a system where if you are the primary on the contract then you should be able to engage that target regardless of where he is at. If EVE allows for a Concord sanctioned war between corporations then it seems to me that the Bounty Hunter by taking a contract can in a sense create a "temporary war" that is in effect between the two players until the contract has fulfilled the obligations for termination. i.e. the mark kills the BH or the BH kills the mark thus closing the terms of the contract. If the mark kills the BH he is removed as the primary on the contract allowing another BH to step up and take his hand at killing the mark. If BH kills the mark then he gets paid and moves on about his business, thus ending the "temporary war" that these two players were waging.







War does not decide who is right but who is left.
Kanaan
Kanaan
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers

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Posted - 2004.04.29 23:09:00 - [74]

Originally by: GardenerOfEden
With respect to empire bounty hunting:

1.1. Currently a pilot with a bounty who is not also an outlaw is safer in empire space than in non-empire space because the pilot is protected by CONCORD sentries and ships, and by the fact that goodie-to-shoes pilots wonÆt take the sec status hit for an unprovoked attack. This is absurd. The pilot only has the bounty because the pilot has broken the laws of the empires within their jurisdiction, which laws then allow the placing of a bounty for the killing of the pilot. It is nonsensical to effectively have a CONCORD sanctioned death penalty on the one hand and on the other hand make it a crime to enforce that penalty. It is, however, realistic for the enforcement to be regulated, and effectively taxed, under a licence scheme.

1.2. A pilot with a bounty should be on the run and should not be able to live it up large in empire space. It would be more realistic to encounter such a pilot in deep space sheltering in pirate alliance or faction territory than, say, flying an industrial ship through Yulai! Bounty hunters may find it too risky to stalk their marks in pirate territory but they should surely be able to do so in empire space.

With respect to who should be able to hold a licence and who should have bounties:

2.1. The point you make is the reason for not being able to place a bounty on someone just because they have a negative sec status but rather requiring it to be -2 or worse, so we are talking more of Jack the Ripper than Jack the Carebear. Further, after receiving justice the pilot with relatively good sec status, by which I mean they have climbed above the bounty threshold, can then carry on as a good clone û it is only the true criminal that need fear perpetual killing but how is that unfair when such a person is likely to be a serial killer?

2.2. You should need good standing with CONCORD to get a bounty hunting licence û after all it would constitute a privileged exemption from CONCORDÆs general policing of aggressive acts against other pilots. The requirement for positive security status is really a requirement for experience since you can only get positive security status from killing pirates who co-incidentally have bounties and it provides a tangible benefit for having positive sec status beyond bragging rights and intimidation.




Pretty much nails it.

How about a system where if you are the primary on the contract then you should be able to engage that target regardless of where he is at. If EVE allows for a Concord sanctioned war between corporations then it seems to me that the Bounty Hunter by taking a contract can in a sense create a "temporary war" that is in effect between the two players until the contract has fulfilled the obligations for termination. i.e. the mark kills the BH or the BH kills the mark thus closing the terms of the contract. If the mark kills the BH he is removed as the primary on the contract allowing another BH to step up and take his hand at killing the mark. If BH kills the mark then he gets paid and moves on about his business, thus ending the "temporary war" that these two players were waging.





War does not decide who is right but who is left.
Trent Cooper
Trent Cooper

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Posted - 2004.04.30 03:41:00 - [75]

Agreed. A well thought out solution.

Location services do need upgrading. Atleast for people willing to put in the bounty hunter skill tree. Finding a bounty in eve is like finding a needle in a haystack. The amount of work you have to put in to it grossly outweighs the cash reward. Even if you do manage to track him down, chances are he will log off for a sandwhich or be safe in empire space.

There are very very few true bounty hunters in eve. So rare, that the bounty channel is now a gossip chat centre. I've heard rumours about a bounty hunter once. But never met one. Why are they so little? Bounty hunting just isnt a viable career.

We need more tools CCP! Better location services. Better tracking mechanisms. Abolishment of Concord protection of large bounties and outlaws! The law and order protect the most wanted murderers? Yeah right!
Trent Cooper
Trent Cooper

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Posted - 2004.04.30 03:41:00 - [76]

Agreed. A well thought out solution.

Location services do need upgrading. Atleast for people willing to put in the bounty hunter skill tree. Finding a bounty in eve is like finding a needle in a haystack. The amount of work you have to put in to it grossly outweighs the cash reward. Even if you do manage to track him down, chances are he will log off for a sandwhich or be safe in empire space.

There are very very few true bounty hunters in eve. So rare, that the bounty channel is now a gossip chat centre. I've heard rumours about a bounty hunter once. But never met one. Why are they so little? Bounty hunting just isnt a viable career.

We need more tools CCP! Better location services. Better tracking mechanisms. Abolishment of Concord protection of large bounties and outlaws! The law and order protect the most wanted murderers? Yeah right!
CPT KRAT0S
CPT KRAT0S

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Posted - 2007.08.18 19:47:00 - [77]

bounty hunting
   
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