EVE Search - Bounty Hunting

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Tobruk	Posted - 2004.04.23 04:52:00 - [31] just do it; sticky ----------------------------------------------
Tobruk Black Omega Security	Posted - 2004.04.23 04:52:00 - [32] just do it; sticky ---------------------------------------------- Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.04.23 06:29:00 - [33] Yeah, this idea needs to go straight to a Dev's desk. Anyone want to translate it to Icelandic? Ah, and do add in Hick's idea. It has to be a decent ship you get her/him in to be a decent bounty. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Bobby Wilson Gallente	Posted - 2004.04.23 06:29:00 - [34] Yeah, this idea needs to go straight to a Dev's desk. Anyone want to translate it to Icelandic? Ah, and do add in Hick's idea. It has to be a decent ship you get her/him in to be a decent bounty. BW
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.04.23 07:01:00 - [35] Well the main problem with bounty hunting is that if you make "kill-based", as in giving a bounty hunter sec boosts every time he kills a target, it can be abused by an alt or friend of a potential bounty, who can elevate himself to the position of th emost "feared" bounty hunter in the universe just by asking his bounty buddy to come out and die to him over and over. This way a "point based" (aka SS based) bounty system would be very abusable. Imo killing PC bounties should give you a significant sec boost, but it should be based on the amount of SP the PC has and once you kill someone, there should be a timer that prevents you from getting another sec boost for a week or something. Even this makes it pretty abusable imo. Also I agree that sec rating based bounty hunting would be crap, since sec rating has little to do with bounty hunting and more to do with farming capabilities. But as I said, anything that involves killing PCs to get sec boost is simply abusable. -
Viceroy Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2004.04.23 07:01:00 - [36] Well the main problem with bounty hunting is that if you make "kill-based", as in giving a bounty hunter sec boosts every time he kills a target, it can be abused by an alt or friend of a potential bounty, who can elevate himself to the position of th emost "feared" bounty hunter in the universe just by asking his bounty buddy to come out and die to him over and over. This way a "point based" (aka SS based) bounty system would be very abusable. Imo killing PC bounties should give you a significant sec boost, but it should be based on the amount of SP the PC has and once you kill someone, there should be a timer that prevents you from getting another sec boost for a week or something. Even this makes it pretty abusable imo. Also I agree that sec rating based bounty hunting would be crap, since sec rating has little to do with bounty hunting and more to do with farming capabilities. But as I said, anything that involves killing PCs to get sec boost is simply abusable.
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.04.23 07:17:00 - [37] Edited by: SKiNNiEH on 23/04/2004 07:23:17 Originally by: Viceroy Well the main problem with bounty hunting is that if you make "kill-based", as in giving a bounty hunter sec boosts every time he kills a target, it can be abused by an alt or friend of a potential bounty, who can elevate himself to the position of th emost "feared" bounty hunter in the universe just by asking his bounty buddy to come out and die to him over and over. This way a "point based" (aka SS based) bounty system would be very abusable. Imo killing PC bounties should give you a significant sec boost, but it should be based on the amount of SP the PC has and once you kill someone, there should be a timer that prevents you from getting another sec boost for a week or something. Even this makes it pretty abusable imo. Also I agree that sec rating based bounty hunting would be crap, since sec rating has little to do with bounty hunting and more to do with farming capabilities. But as I said, anything that involves killing PCs to get sec boost is simply abusable. Well the way i envision it is that it is a contract... Which has to be mutually agreed upon, or signed if you will. The score-system i talked about prevents newbie's from requesting the good contracts (the one that put out the contract only receives offers from level 3+ bounty hunters if it is a level 3 contract). You're right about faking contracts to boost secrating/score though. The thing that comes to mind to counteract this, is a requestable history of the person that wants your contract. If 10 kills on little frigates in one day are shown in that history, you know somethings not right. To be sure that your bountyhunter is as good as he/she says he is, you might want to look in that history for Battleship kills. EDIT: Also, your timer idea should be implemented too. I think a history and timer combined should counteract faking enough. Now i'm late for work again due to these damned forums :P I'll check back here when i'm there. -------
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.04.23 07:17:00 - [38] Edited by: SKiNNiEH on 23/04/2004 07:23:17 Originally by: Viceroy Well the main problem with bounty hunting is that if you make "kill-based", as in giving a bounty hunter sec boosts every time he kills a target, it can be abused by an alt or friend of a potential bounty, who can elevate himself to the position of th emost "feared" bounty hunter in the universe just by asking his bounty buddy to come out and die to him over and over. This way a "point based" (aka SS based) bounty system would be very abusable. Imo killing PC bounties should give you a significant sec boost, but it should be based on the amount of SP the PC has and once you kill someone, there should be a timer that prevents you from getting another sec boost for a week or something. Even this makes it pretty abusable imo. Also I agree that sec rating based bounty hunting would be crap, since sec rating has little to do with bounty hunting and more to do with farming capabilities. But as I said, anything that involves killing PCs to get sec boost is simply abusable. Well the way i envision it is that it is a contract... Which has to be mutually agreed upon, or signed if you will. The score-system i talked about prevents newbie's from requesting the good contracts (the one that put out the contract only receives offers from level 3+ bounty hunters if it is a level 3 contract). You're right about faking contracts to boost secrating/score though. The thing that comes to mind to counteract this, is a requestable history of the person that wants your contract. If 10 kills on little frigates in one day are shown in that history, you know somethings not right. To be sure that your bountyhunter is as good as he/she says he is, you might want to look in that history for Battleship kills. EDIT: Also, your timer idea should be implemented too. I think a history and timer combined should counteract faking enough. Now i'm late for work again due to these damned forums :P I'll check back here when i'm there.
pHASE 11	Posted - 2004.04.23 08:11:00 - [39] Devs, Polaris: sticky for this much needed feature in eve that would definitely make the game better? Maybe I don't agree in all details, maybe there should be some tweaking done but eve do need working bounty-hunter functionality.
pHASE 11	Posted - 2004.04.23 08:11:00 - [40] Devs, Polaris: sticky for this much needed feature in eve that would definitely make the game better? Maybe I don't agree in all details, maybe there should be some tweaking done but eve do need working bounty-hunter functionality.

Shadowthrone	Posted - 2004.04.23 09:32:00 - [41] There are some interesting thoughts on bounty hunting here. But no matter what way you set up the bounty system, the potential for exploit is always there. The most reputable bounty hunter corp could be in cahhots with its prey an "always getting a kill" could mean he paid his victim half. The problem with bounty hunting is only partly the bounty system. Even with an upgraded agent, and you were able to accurately find your prey, it would not help u find their safe spot, prevent them from logging off, or staying docked. Only the unskilled would get killed.( black op frigates will help here) The problem with bounty hunting has always been few targets, whereas pirates always have lots of targets. Anyway it only seems to be in EVE that bounty hunters are seen as "good guys" every other fictional space universe they are see as nasty scum who will stoop to whatever lengths to get their kills, so i dont think sec status is realy that important. Celes Kill Board "Show them no mercy, for you will receive none"
Shadowthrone Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2004.04.23 09:32:00 - [42] There are some interesting thoughts on bounty hunting here. But no matter what way you set up the bounty system, the potential for exploit is always there. The most reputable bounty hunter corp could be in cahhots with its prey an "always getting a kill" could mean he paid his victim half. The problem with bounty hunting is only partly the bounty system. Even with an upgraded agent, and you were able to accurately find your prey, it would not help u find their safe spot, prevent them from logging off, or staying docked. Only the unskilled would get killed.( black op frigates will help here) The problem with bounty hunting has always been few targets, whereas pirates always have lots of targets. Anyway it only seems to be in EVE that bounty hunters are seen as "good guys" every other fictional space universe they are see as nasty scum who will stoop to whatever lengths to get their kills, so i dont think sec status is realy that important. "Show them no mercy, for you will receive none"
ClarCE	Posted - 2004.04.23 12:32:00 - [43] I like both roys idea and the points system that was posted, definately should be stickied, or maybe put in the suggestions forum, don't know if that ever gets looked at though.. --'The Way is Shut'-- ----------------------- Jenny...Get to the Chopper---Stick Around -----------------------
ClarCE Pitbull Industries	Posted - 2004.04.23 12:32:00 - [44] I like both roys idea and the points system that was posted, definately should be stickied, or maybe put in the suggestions forum, don't know if that ever gets looked at though..
Ganza	Posted - 2004.04.23 13:46:00 - [45] Your idea is an exploiters dream.... I fire up my alt put a 1 isk bounty on my victim, login in main. I can now track and kill anyone i like and the victim can do nothing about it.
Ganza	Posted - 2004.04.23 13:46:00 - [46] Your idea is an exploiters dream.... I fire up my alt put a 1 isk bounty on my victim, login in main. I can now track and kill anyone i like and the victim can do nothing about it.
Jarjar	Posted - 2004.04.23 13:56:00 - [47] Originally by: Ganza Your idea is an exploiters dream.... I fire up my alt put a 1 isk bounty on my victim, login in main. I can now track and kill anyone i like and the victim can do nothing about it. Read again.
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2004.04.23 13:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Ganza Your idea is an exploiters dream.... I fire up my alt put a 1 isk bounty on my victim, login in main. I can now track and kill anyone i like and the victim can do nothing about it. Read again.
Blacklight	Posted - 2004.04.24 01:23:00 - [49] Originally by: pHASE 11 Devs, Polaris: sticky for this much needed feature in eve that would definitely make the game better? Maybe I don't agree in all details, maybe there should be some tweaking done but eve do need working bounty-hunter functionality. pHASE what are you doing in the forums? Get back in the lab and research us an electronic tracking device so we can kill ebil people more easily. Good idea Viceroy, a feature similar to this would indeed be awesome-tastic. Eve Blacklight Style
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2004.04.24 01:23:00 - [50] Originally by: pHASE 11 Devs, Polaris: sticky for this much needed feature in eve that would definitely make the game better? Maybe I don't agree in all details, maybe there should be some tweaking done but eve do need working bounty-hunter functionality. pHASE what are you doing in the forums? Get back in the lab and research us an electronic tracking device so we can kill ebil people more easily. Good idea Viceroy, a feature similar to this would indeed be awesome-tastic. Blog

Berilac	Posted - 2004.04.24 21:25:00 - [51] Mabye you could get a ammo that was called 'tracking device charge' or something to the like, so if you saw someone, you could tag them and see where they were for the next 2-3 hours. it could add a scouting part to bounty hunting. you go out in an iterceptor or frig and launch a tracking device at someone go back and get you bs, and then procede to blow the crap out of said person. also there could be small medium and large charges for frigates, crusers, and battleships respectivly. perhaps they could stack too, 2 hits stays for 4 hours, 3 for 6 something like that. and then they would have to be very expencive, so someone couldent fit a ship with a bundle of guns and shoot him with like 50. --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Berilac Amarr Petition Inc.	Posted - 2004.04.24 21:25:00 - [52] Mabye you could get a ammo that was called 'tracking device charge' or something to the like, so if you saw someone, you could tag them and see where they were for the next 2-3 hours. it could add a scouting part to bounty hunting. you go out in an iterceptor or frig and launch a tracking device at someone go back and get you bs, and then procede to blow the crap out of said person. also there could be small medium and large charges for frigates, crusers, and battleships respectivly. perhaps they could stack too, 2 hits stays for 4 hours, 3 for 6 something like that. and then they would have to be very expencive, so someone couldent fit a ship with a bundle of guns and shoot him with like 50.
Skelator	Posted - 2004.04.27 02:11:00 - [53] Originally by: Berilac Mabye you could get a ammo that was called 'tracking device charge' or something to the like, so if you saw someone, you could tag them and see where they were for the next 2-3 hours. it could add a scouting part to bounty hunting. you go out in an iterceptor or frig and launch a tracking device at someone go back and get you bs, and then procede to blow the crap out of said person. also there could be small medium and large charges for frigates, crusers, and battleships respectivly. perhaps they could stack too, 2 hits stays for 4 hours, 3 for 6 something like that. and then they would have to be very expencive, so someone couldent fit a ship with a bundle of guns and shoot him with like 50. LOL I Played Yankee Trader, then Tradewars And Then the best of them all Galactic Warzone... To make a long story short there was a device called a Tracking Beacon that you could attach to your enemies ship and he could do nothing about it till the charge wore off if i remember right.. Also for mtracking why not borrow a page out of Starwars and have Drones that you send out to areas and their only purpose is to locate your prey.. Give them a short life (1 day) before they self destruct.. They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Skelator Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2004.04.27 02:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Berilac Mabye you could get a ammo that was called 'tracking device charge' or something to the like, so if you saw someone, you could tag them and see where they were for the next 2-3 hours. it could add a scouting part to bounty hunting. you go out in an iterceptor or frig and launch a tracking device at someone go back and get you bs, and then procede to blow the crap out of said person. also there could be small medium and large charges for frigates, crusers, and battleships respectivly. perhaps they could stack too, 2 hits stays for 4 hours, 3 for 6 something like that. and then they would have to be very expencive, so someone couldent fit a ship with a bundle of guns and shoot him with like 50. LOL I Played Yankee Trader, then Tradewars And Then the best of them all Galactic Warzone... To make a long story short there was a device called a Tracking Beacon that you could attach to your enemies ship and he could do nothing about it till the charge wore off if i remember right.. Also for mtracking why not borrow a page out of Starwars and have Drones that you send out to areas and their only purpose is to locate your prey.. Give them a short life (1 day) before they self destruct.. Phasmatis Velox Equitatus
GardenerOfEden	Posted - 2004.04.27 12:43:00 - [55] The fundamental problem with bounty hunting atm is that it is illegal - if you accept that the only legal jurisdiction in the EVEverse is empire space policed by CONCORD then you cannot pod kill a pilot to claim a bounty in that jurisdiction without that act of bounty hunting being treated as a crime resulting in a security status hit / CONCORD response. Sure you can pod kill a -5, or worse, sec status pilot but that is because the pilot is classified as an outlaw not because the pilot has a bounty. It is absolutely ridiculous that you can fly passed a billboard proclaiming the fact that pilot X has a bounty running into the tens of millions of isk, is wanted for crimes against humanity, and see that pilot X right there in space before you and be unable to take any action because pilot XÆs security status is something like -1.7 or is even positive. What is required is a Bounty Hunter Licence that you can acquire from CONCORD at a set price for a set period of time (just like ship insurance) if you have, and maintain, a certain positive security status / standing with CONCORD. You would then be flagged (just like those with bounties) as a licensed bounty hunter legally entitled to pod kill pilots with bounties no matter what the sec status of the solar system or the pilot. The bounty pilot would be able to fight back in non-empire and empire space as they would not be the aggressor and CONCORD would not get involved (just like a corp war). Obviously itÆs a one-off kill if successful since it wipes the bounty. I agree that there is also an issue regarding the practicalities of tracking down pilots and forcing PvP but inherent in what you are saying is the issue of how easy it should be for an individual pilot to bounty hunt as compared to a corp / network. Obviously the rewards need to be larger to attract corp / networks and I like the idea of being able to restrict (or pay a bonus to) such groups û players would then be more inclined to place larger bounties if they can be confident that the pirate not be able to claim the bounty with an effective suicide. Personally I donÆt think it should be as easy to bounty hunt solo as what has been suggested in this thread but it should not be impossible and I note in that context that CCP has already flagged the use of tracking beacons in the story Prey Miner. EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology
GardenerOfEden Deep Space Fishing	Posted - 2004.04.27 12:43:00 - [56] The fundamental problem with bounty hunting atm is that it is illegal - if you accept that the only legal jurisdiction in the EVEverse is empire space policed by CONCORD then you cannot pod kill a pilot to claim a bounty in that jurisdiction without that act of bounty hunting being treated as a crime resulting in a security status hit / CONCORD response. Sure you can pod kill a -5, or worse, sec status pilot but that is because the pilot is classified as an outlaw not because the pilot has a bounty. It is absolutely ridiculous that you can fly passed a billboard proclaiming the fact that pilot X has a bounty running into the tens of millions of isk, is wanted for crimes against humanity, and see that pilot X right there in space before you and be unable to take any action because pilot XÆs security status is something like -1.7 or is even positive. What is required is a Bounty Hunter Licence that you can acquire from CONCORD at a set price for a set period of time (just like ship insurance) if you have, and maintain, a certain positive security status / standing with CONCORD. You would then be flagged (just like those with bounties) as a licensed bounty hunter legally entitled to pod kill pilots with bounties no matter what the sec status of the solar system or the pilot. The bounty pilot would be able to fight back in non-empire and empire space as they would not be the aggressor and CONCORD would not get involved (just like a corp war). Obviously itÆs a one-off kill if successful since it wipes the bounty. I agree that there is also an issue regarding the practicalities of tracking down pilots and forcing PvP but inherent in what you are saying is the issue of how easy it should be for an individual pilot to bounty hunt as compared to a corp / network. Obviously the rewards need to be larger to attract corp / networks and I like the idea of being able to restrict (or pay a bonus to) such groups û players would then be more inclined to place larger bounties if they can be confident that the pirate not be able to claim the bounty with an effective suicide. Personally I donÆt think it should be as easy to bounty hunt solo as what has been suggested in this thread but it should not be impossible and I note in that context that CCP has already flagged the use of tracking beacons in the story Prey Miner. EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.04.27 12:46:00 - [57] Bounty hunting should be illegal imo. Bounty hunters arent "good-guys". They're ambitious fighters that kill people for money. I'm a pirate and I bounty hunt too. So bounty hunting should still be partially illegal imo. And allowing bounty hunters to kill people in secure systems even if they have a 5k bounty wouldnt be right. -
Viceroy Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2004.04.27 12:46:00 - [58] Bounty hunting should be illegal imo. Bounty hunters arent "good-guys". They're ambitious fighters that kill people for money. I'm a pirate and I bounty hunt too. So bounty hunting should still be partially illegal imo. And allowing bounty hunters to kill people in secure systems even if they have a 5k bounty wouldnt be right.
GardenerOfEden	Posted - 2004.04.27 13:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Viceroy Bounty hunting should be illegal imo. Bounty hunters arent "good-guys". They're ambitious fighters that kill people for money. I'm a pirate and I bounty hunt too. So bounty hunting should still be partially illegal imo. And allowing bounty hunters to kill people in secure systems even if they have a 5k bounty wouldnt be right. 1. It is not about the bounty hunter it is about the pilot who has the bounty - the bounty has only been able to be placed because the pilot has been bad, probably more than once, and therefore deserves to receive justice regardless of whether it is delivered by a bad bald guy like you or a good bald guy like me 2. The size of the bounty is self balancing - a bounty hunter is less likely to attack a pirate if the bounty was only 5,000 isk, when killing a npc frigate for the same bounty would be easier, but more likely if the bounty was 20,000,000 isk. Those with big bounties should be harder to kill in recognition of the difficulty, risk and the transgression. 3. Under the system I discussed it may be appropriate to change the threshold for placing a bounty if the consequences are more severe but that is a tuning matter only. EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology
GardenerOfEden Deep Space Fishing	Posted - 2004.04.27 13:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Viceroy Bounty hunting should be illegal imo. Bounty hunters arent "good-guys". They're ambitious fighters that kill people for money. I'm a pirate and I bounty hunt too. So bounty hunting should still be partially illegal imo. And allowing bounty hunters to kill people in secure systems even if they have a 5k bounty wouldnt be right. 1. It is not about the bounty hunter it is about the pilot who has the bounty - the bounty has only been able to be placed because the pilot has been bad, probably more than once, and therefore deserves to receive justice regardless of whether it is delivered by a bad bald guy like you or a good bald guy like me 2. The size of the bounty is self balancing - a bounty hunter is less likely to attack a pirate if the bounty was only 5,000 isk, when killing a npc frigate for the same bounty would be easier, but more likely if the bounty was 20,000,000 isk. Those with big bounties should be harder to kill in recognition of the difficulty, risk and the transgression. 3. Under the system I discussed it may be appropriate to change the threshold for placing a bounty if the consequences are more severe but that is a tuning matter only. EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology



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