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The Naglfar. Worth a try?

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Liisa hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:55:00 - [31] The biggest advantage of the Naglfar is it's cargohold. It is the only dread that can carry 7 cycles of stront, 30k fuel and enough ammo with ease.
Bronson Hughes The KAOS Holdings Group	Posted - 2008.05.01 17:59:00 - [32] Originally by: ZW Dewitt ITS FREAKIN' VERTICAL I forsee YouTube action involving this quote.... From what people have told me, the only time that a Naglfar suffers compared to other dreads is when you're fitting for max DPS due to it's split weapon system. For typical max buffer tank, no damage mods, hoping like hell to outlive siege mode and get remote reps setups, it does fine. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Unknown Comic	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:19:00 - [33] Noob post - my alt is Minmi and a couple of months from dreads, but I am seriously considering training Amarr to avoid the Naglfar. I don't get why this ship has an omni-tank slot layout, but the cpu does not allow a T2 (non-faction) shield tank. Would it be so wrong to give it an extra hundred cpu? I can't see that creating any possibly unbalanced setups. You can get a bit more gank with the shield setup and a bit more tank with armour. The tank is inferior to the other dreads either way and the damage is not crazy. So why should we have to invest extra isk in an oft-primaried ship to use shields? Maybe I've missed a viable setup, but that's the big problem I see with this ship's concept. I also know a lot of people think shields suck in fleet/pos warfare.
royal killer Amarr The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.01 20:49:00 - [34] Edited by: royal killer on 01/05/2008 20:49:08 [Naglfar, the lolmobile] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Siege Module I 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Warden II x5 edit: A good solid 1500 dps tank according to EFT --------------------
Alyth Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.01 21:31:00 - [35] Originally by: Liang Nuren Wow... I didn't put a DC on it. Damn, and that's like one of the cardinal rules too. So the Trimarks are for hoping you survive "primary" long enough to get the remote reps on? -Liang That would be the length of time it takes you to come out of siege so you can actually be remote repped then? A primaried, sieged dread is a dead dread.
Unknown Comic	Posted - 2008.05.01 21:42:00 - [36] Originally by: royal killer Edited by: royal killer on 01/05/2008 20:49:08 [Naglfar, the lolmobile] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Siege Module I 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Warden II x5 edit: A good solid 1500 dps tank according to EFT lol. Very nice as long as it's only 1 jump to target or you'll need someone to remote cap boost. Thanks for posting that - I dislike the Naglfar less intensely now. I did some playing in EFT and found there's no way to sustain a 5 slot active shield tank on the Nag while in siege mode for more than a few minutes. Not long enough to get yourself out of siege anyway. Active shields is not really an option so extra cpu would be useless.
gordon cain Minmatar x13	Posted - 2008.05.01 22:03:00 - [37] Do you naglfar pilots often have problems with desynch. I seem to dsynch more often than say a Moros. Your experience? gordon cain Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2008.05.01 22:14:00 - [38] Originally by: royal killer Edited by: royal killer on 01/05/2008 20:49:08 [Naglfar, the lolmobile] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Siege Module I 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Warden II x5 edit: A good solid 1500 dps tank according to EFT ehm.... is a dread not a bs... 1500 dps tank is quite crap, expecially considering that you are using every slot to achieve that... a standard active tank setup should be able to sustain tank around 4k and with space for shield booster, trimark and a bcu... a dual armor tank can tank over 10k dps for few minutes... Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Bertn Erney The Fudge Packers Union	Posted - 2008.05.01 22:17:00 - [39] Edited by: Bertn Erney on 01/05/2008 22:18:55 ingame dps doesnt equal on paper dps, for proof check out any of the hundreds of tower killmails and capital killmails that go up weekly on killboards. if you then check out the losses of capitals you may notice another statistical anomaly; naglafars seem to die more then other dreads. Reason being their tank is also tied for worst at best. To train a nag from scratch based on the present condition of caps means you are either gambling on a massive change to the ship (entirely possible in the year and a half you have to train for this) or you are misguided on the current state of caps. put down the eft and examine the evidence that is available directly from the game. edit: the person above me obviously missed the funny.....
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.01 22:42:00 - [40] As far as I can tell, there's isn't actually all that much in the way of difference between the dreads. They each tank 'really hard', do massive damage to POSes, and are fairly crap out of siege. I wouldn't say it makes that much of a difference, if you already have BS 5. The only dread that can do particularly funky things that the others can't, is the Moros with it's rather horrendous drone damage bonus. Naglafar is a split weapon system, and gains an extra weapon as a result. The weapon system is the best for changing damage types (the Phoenix loses a damage bonus on non-kinetic damage, where the Naglfar only loses a relatively small percentage switching projectile ammo types). Fair trade for the additional effort of training both. Or would be, if it didn't lose a lowslot to it - All the dreads get a total of 16 slots, which means the other three get 'a slot more' that can be used for tanking. (Or a damage mod, or whatever) I'm not entirely sure how much this matters though, as a straight fight between dreads isn't all that common - and they all fill the basic role of 'shooting down POSes'. It does gain the fastest locking time, for what that's worth :). -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?

Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.02 00:21:00 - [41] The nag, and for that matter all minmatar ships above CSs are really sub-par as a whole. Artillery is simply a terrible wepon system which is a good balance to the fantastic nature of ACs. I would recommend the Revelation as the 'best' dread for POS seiging (which is what dreads are for imo) because it can sustain a duel rep armor tank of considerable defense and it does not need to reload - you simply go into siege, turn on the guns, and take a cigarate break for 9 mins, come back and either re-siege or warp off. . .or find yourself dead. The idea of reloading two different ammos during a proper POS siege (or any ammo of that matter) just sounds like a frustrating thing. . . ----
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.02 00:30:00 - [42] it's vertical, get the vertical.
m3rb3aSt GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.02 00:44:00 - [43] Really just give the naglfar one more low slot and it would be perfect. Its not bad but the cons really offset the pros of using it. Really both the nidhogger and naglfar both need a slight minuscule boost.
Auralis Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.02 00:52:00 - [44] Stop saying it's vertical. IT'S NOT! It's the pilot/pod that is placed horizontally, therefore changing the pilots' view and FLYING at a 90 degree angle of what they should fly.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.02 00:53:00 - [45] Originally by: m3rb3aSt Really just give the naglfar one more low slot and it would be perfect. Its not bad but the cons really offset the pros of using it. Really both the nidhogger and naglfar both need a slight minuscule boost. One more slot is not a 'slight miniscule boost' the best nag setups I've seen are shield tanked. . . which is a good way to go if you don't have slaves. ----
Commander Thrawn the united	Posted - 2008.05.02 01:08:00 - [46] this http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=734632
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:34:00 - [47] Question: Why use long range arty's when most minmatar ships use autos? And why fit such a HUGE tank? Isn't that against everything minmatar stand for? Why not shield/cap mods in the mids and all gank in the lows???? To me that would make it nasty, but atm I'm stuck at work......
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.02 06:40:00 - [48] Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 02/05/2008 06:35:58 Question: Why not shield/cap mods in the mids and all gank in the lows???? To me that would make it nasty, but atm I'm stuck at work...... Maybe because you're in siege mode and can't move. Just saying. -Liang
Ath Amon	Posted - 2008.05.02 07:55:00 - [49] Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 02/05/2008 06:35:58 Question: Why not shield/cap mods in the mids and all gank in the lows???? To me that would make it nasty, but atm I'm stuck at work...... because it lacks the cpu, you cant even fit a shield tank whitout going out of cpu so no space at all for dmg mods i agree that nag need 1 more mid or low... split weapon, low dps of arty, lowest base hps should be alredy enought to balance that
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.02 08:13:00 - [50] I drew these numbers from the last 20 Insurgency POS kills. Draw from them what you will. Originally by: Stats Ship \| Times Appeared \| Average Damage \| Total Damage Revelation \| 79 \| 1240261 \| 97980641 Moros \| 161 \| 1076045 \| 173243262 Wyvern \| 1 \| 922517 \| 922517 Phoenix \| 66 \| 910845 \| 60115757 Naglfar \| 81 \| 899814 \| 72884932 Raven \| 7 \| 830000 \| 5810003 Hel \| 3 \| 781987 \| 2345960 Maelstrom \| 8 \| 653007 \| 5224055 Capsule \| 1 \| 604239 \| 604239 Nighthawk \| 1 \| 523313 \| 523313 Aeon \| 6 \| 391041 \| 2346247 Drake \| 1 \| 379394 \| 379394 Nyx \| 10 \| 366837 \| 3668372 Apocalypse \| 30 \| 338606 \| 10158180 Dominix \| 2 \| 334929 \| 669857 Tempest \| 51 \| 288063 \| 14691223 Nidhoggur \| 4 \| 283554 \| 1134216 Megathron \| 57 \| 282753 \| 16116938 Archon \| 22 \| 259528 \| 5709617 Chimera \| 29 \| 258963 \| 7509935 Ishtar \| 7 \| 251567 \| 1760969 Eagle \| 1 \| 243511 \| 243511 Thanatos \| 45 \| 226761 \| 10204257 Onyx \| 1 \| 217170 \| 217170 Armageddon \| 6 \| 213194 \| 1279165 Unknown \| 31 \| 199686 \| 6190253 Abaddon \| 4 \| 199219 \| 796874 Hurricane \| 2 \| 194919 \| 389838 Rokh \| 21 \| 168787 \| 3544527 Absolution \| 1 \| 152978 \| 152978 Muninn \| 1 \| 124790 \| 124790 Myrmidon \| 1 \| 95938 \| 95938 Ferox \| 1 \| 48136 \| 48136 Manticore \| 1 \| 36361 \| 36361 Scorpion \| 9 \| 34249 \| 308240 Caracal \| 1 \| 32912 \| 32912 Broadsword \| 1 \| 6866 \| 6866 When limited to just the dreads: Quote: Ship \| Times Appeared \| Average Damage \| Total Damage Revelation \| 79 \| 1240261 \| 97980641 Moros \| 161 \| 1076045 \| 173243262 Phoenix \| 66 \| 910845 \| 60115757 Naglfar \| 81 \| 899814 \| 72884932 We can see that the Moros is far and away the most popular dread, but the Naglfar is next. We can further see that the Naglfar does (on average) about 72% of the damage a Rev does. ;-) -Liang

Liam Fremen Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.05.02 08:22:00 - [51] If **** hit the fan the primary list of any serious fc is: Naglfar -> Moros -> Revelation/Phoenix You can even switch from a Phoenix at half shield, take down a Naglfar and come back and you will "earn" from the switch. When you are in Minnie capitals you are primary, period.
Umar Khattab Amarr Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.05.02 09:47:00 - [52] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Capless weapons. Ability to switch damage types to a degree. And... ITS FREAKIN' VERTICAL hahaha
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 09:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Auralis Edited by: Auralis on 01/05/2008 03:42:20 So I'm hoping to hop in a dread soon. The Dread of choice would be the minnie Naglfar. I'm 30 days away from flying one including all related skills (cap repper, guns etc) But after a quick comparison with the other races' dreads I'm shocked. It seems the Nagl is sub par on every account bar cargohold! Split weapon systems, in the best minnie Tradition. but seriously, 2/2? mids/lows. 5/6. Again, minnie style, but on a capital? Lowest capacitor. And to top it all off, a WAY lower sensor strength than any of the others. Other Minmatar ships have some, if not a lot (vaga anyone)profit of the higher speeds and lower inertia, especially combined with low range/high DPS weapons. but obviously that's wasted on a dread which would be nano'd for giggles only, and would spends 90% of the time in the field in siege mode, and therefore immobile. So what, if any, are the naglfars' strenghts? I really don't want to add 3 months worth of training for another races' dread. The only reason you'd use a Naglfar would be if you have most of the skills already. Like all Minmatar cap ships, it sucks, in this case: - it has the worst tank of all Dreads - its damage is sub-par also since nowdays you usually fit 2 damage mods on your dread and the Naglfar doesn't benefit as much as other dreads from it - since it has 2 torp launchers, its damage is crap when you shoot supercaps (unless they're logged ...) - citadel torp explosion velocity needs to be fixed in siege But yeah, it looks nice and uses no cap to shoot (but who cares, if you need cap for your repper, you can stop shooting).
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 10:05:00 - [54] Originally by: Liisa The biggest advantage of the Naglfar is it's cargohold. It is the only dread that can carry 7 cycles of stront, 30k fuel and enough ammo with ease. LOL, only the Revelation needs to carry almost no ammo ... Also, 7 cycles (L4) + 30k fuel = 6300 + 4500 = 10800m¦, the Naglfar has 10250m¦ cargo hold.
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 10:13:00 - [55] Originally by: Unknown Comic I did some playing in EFT and found there's no way to sustain a 5 slot active shield tank on the Nag while in siege mode for more than a few minutes. Not long enough to get yourself out of siege anyway. Active shields is not really an option so extra cpu would be useless. Sure there is a way. Extra CPU would be extremely useful to make it cheaper (these fittings cost around 700m): Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Capital Shield Booster I Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Domination Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier Siege Module I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Torpedo I Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, EMP XL Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I = almost 11k dps perma-tank ... no CPU for a damage control, TS CPRs or T2 hardeners.
Dah' Khanid Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.02 10:35:00 - [56] Edited by: Dah'' Khanid on 02/05/2008 10:39:40 Shield tanked Naglefar: Lows: 1xBest Named DCU 5xTrue Sansha Power Relay Mids: 2xDomination Shield boost amp 2xDread Guristas Invul field 1xCapital Shield Booster Higs: 2xCitadel Torp 2xArty 1xSiege Module Rigs: 3xCCC Tank: 12200 DPS near sustainable shield tank. The faction mods on it are very affordable and needed for the CPU (or at least they should be for a capital pilot). CPU is very tight as you can see, so gun and missile implants are needed as well as a cheap cpu implant for the ship. On a serious note: I would never use this thing like this in combat due to no damage mods and no sensor booster, but those 2-3 mods can easily be switched although it makes the tank a lot less sustainable - but still very good. Edit: Just saw the above poster and our setups are almost similar Use faction Cap relays though - 5 of those are 100mil tops.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:02:00 - [57] no dmg control, no sensor booster and the price.... expecially considering that you are going to be primary a phoenix can put up similar tankage with just t2 mod and a bcu too... so a full pirate nag is more or less equal to a t2 phoenix, doesnt seem that great to me
Lenaria Caldari Ursa Ritor	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:46:00 - [58] Revelation is by far the best dread. Highest damage of all dreads, ability to use mid-ranged, high damage weapon well, best tank, wonderful abilty to shot in lag without reload. Naglfar is worst of all dreads. Worst tank, average damage (without damage mods, with damage mods naglfar again have worst damage..), ****poor dps in lag due to reload... The only bright side is large cargo bay... Generally, i would like to see DPS increase on Naglfar. Or another tanking slot - equal to other dreads. Right now 4 weapon slots on Naglfar do exactly same damage as 3 weapon slots on other dreads.
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 11:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Lenaria Revelation is by far the best dread. Highest damage of all dreads, ability to use mid-ranged, high damage weapon well, best tank, wonderful abilty to shot in lag without reload. Naglfar is worst of all dreads. Worst tank, average damage (without damage mods, with damage mods naglfar again have worst damage..), ***poor dps in lag due to reload... The only bright side is large cargo bay... Generally, i would like to see DPS increase on Naglfar. Or another tanking slot - equal to other dreads. Right now 4 weapon slots on Naglfar do exactly same damage as 3 weapon slots on other dreads. Another minor complaint: the Moros has a higher alpha strike with its frickin' Railguns* than the Naglfar... The XL Arty needs half RoF and double damage mod ...
Liisa hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.05.02 12:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Liisa The biggest advantage of the Naglfar is it's cargohold. It is the only dread that can carry 7 cycles of stront, 30k fuel and enough ammo with ease. LOL, only the Revelation needs to carry almost no ammo ... Also, 7 cycles (L4) + 30k fuel = 6300 + 4500 = 10800m¦, the Naglfar has 10250m¦ cargo hold. Umm... if you do not know what you are talking about, I think it is better not to post anything.



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