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The Naglfar. Worth a try?

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Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:09:00 - [61] Originally by: Liam Fremen If **** hit the fan the primary list of any serious fc is: Naglfar -> Moros -> Revelation/Phoenix You can even switch from a Phoenix at half shield, take down a Naglfar and come back and you will "earn" from the switch. When you are in Minnie capitals you are primary, period. I think this is what makes the Nag actually deal much less damage than the other dreads - people can't tank them properly and fit damage mods. -Liang
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:32:00 - [62] Originally by: Liisa Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Liisa The biggest advantage of the Naglfar is it's cargohold. It is the only dread that can carry 7 cycles of stront, 30k fuel and enough ammo with ease. LOL, only the Revelation needs to carry almost no ammo ... Also, 7 cycles (L4) + 30k fuel = 6300 + 4500 = 10800m¦, the Naglfar has 10250m¦ cargo hold. Umm... if you do not know what you are talking about, I think it is better not to post anything. I know exactly what I'm talking about, I only multiplied the stront amount with 3 for some strange reason. ;-) In any case, you're wrong, the Rev holds enough fuel + stront + ammo just as easily.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.02 16:52:00 - [63] Originally by: Liisa Umm... if you do not know what you are talking about, I think it is better not to post anything. Oh hi. You must be new here.
Lrd Byron	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:09:00 - [64] Just screwing around in EFT with max skills and fitted for max DPS, the Naglfar was around 20% less DPS than the Moros. That seems like a lot.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:12:00 - [65] Originally by: Lrd Byron Just screwing around in EFT with max skills and fitted for max DPS, the Naglfar was around 20% less DPS than the Moros. That seems like a lot. I think it's rather telling that (empirically), on a ship for ship basis, the Naglfar actually does about 17% less DPS than a Moros - and simultaneously has a significantly worse tank. -Liang
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:45:00 - [66] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lrd Byron Just screwing around in EFT with max skills and fitted for max DPS, the Naglfar was around 20% less DPS than the Moros. That seems like a lot. I think it's rather telling that (empirically), on a ship for ship basis, the Naglfar actually does about 17% less DPS than a Moros - and simultaneously has a significantly worse tank. -Liang Yeah, but the Moros does 1000dps or so from drones alone, which is just plain ludicrous.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.02 18:52:00 - [67] Originally by: James Lyrus Yeah, but the Moros does 1000dps or so from drones alone, which is just plain ludicrous. The Moros is (empirically) the second most damaging dread. The Rev actually outdamages it. -Liang
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.02 19:10:00 - [68] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: James Lyrus Yeah, but the Moros does 1000dps or so from drones alone, which is just plain ludicrous. The Moros is (empirically) the second most damaging dread. The Rev actually outdamages it. -Liang Except when out of siege mode :)
Kelbesque Crystalis Minmatar Eve University	Posted - 2008.05.02 19:20:00 - [69] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: James Lyrus Yeah, but the Moros does 1000dps or so from drones alone, which is just plain ludicrous. The Moros is (empirically) the second most damaging dread. The Rev actually outdamages it. -Liang Except when out of siege mode :) Does that matter? This is a serious question BTW. When are you typically out of siege mode in a real fleet op?
Bronson Hughes The KAOS Holdings Group	Posted - 2008.05.02 19:24:00 - [70] Originally by: Kelbesque Crystalis Does that matter? This is a serious question BTW. When are you typically out of siege mode in a real fleet op? Never really, but it does allow more station-hugging and/or gate camping hilarity.
Khadur Minmatar Black Water.	Posted - 2008.05.02 19:53:00 - [71] Revelation it is then, but i want a naglfar just for the pimp looking I am only missing 1 bill
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.05.02 19:57:00 - [72] Originally by: Yonos IT'S FREAKING VERTICAL.
Oreonea	Posted - 2008.05.06 23:14:00 - [73] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Liisa Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Liisa The biggest advantage of the Naglfar is it's cargohold. It is the only dread that can carry 7 cycles of stront, 30k fuel and enough ammo with ease. LOL, only the Revelation needs to carry almost no ammo ... Also, 7 cycles (L4) + 30k fuel = 6300 + 4500 = 10800m¦, the Naglfar has 10250m¦ cargo hold. Umm... if you do not know what you are talking about, I think it is better not to post anything. I know exactly what I'm talking about, I only multiplied the stront amount with 3 for some strange reason. ;-) In any case, you're wrong, the Rev holds enough fuel + stront + ammo just as easily. You guys are just making a fool of yourselves, anyone who knows what they are talking about know that dread pilots, stick 2 GSCs into their cargohold, each GSC has 3900 m3 and takes up 3000 m3, you need some space to move stuff around. But re-do your calcs with this in mind, if u do plan to fly a dread, don't forget this.
Rib0 coracao ardente Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.06 23:50:00 - [74] Edited by: Rib0 on 06/05/2008 23:57:58 Edited by: Rib0 on 06/05/2008 23:52:57 first things first, ive never flown a dread, so this is entirely EFT work (and 2 minutes work at that). i thought id give a shield tanked nag a go, this is the result 2x citadel torp, 2x xl auto, 1xsiege mod 1x capital booster, 2x invuln, 2x shield boost amps 5x cap relays 1x co-proc 2x cccI 1x cccII 5x ogreII stats: dps: 3480 (i took a quick look at what a rev puts out, it doesnt seem hugely more than this figure) tank: 10.3k for 9 minutes or 9.2k perma .... dreads really have any more important stats :P to be honest those numbers dont look too shabby to me, not that much worse then the other dreads surely? edit: eep looks like ive missed the boat on the shield tank setups - sorry edit 2: nag with no damage mods does more dps than a phoenix with 1 damage mod - an interesting factoid
Kelbesque Crystalis Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.05.07 00:12:00 - [75] Originally by: Rib0 Edited by: Rib0 on 06/05/2008 23:52:57 2x citadel torp, 2x xl auto, 1xsiege mod XL AC's wont do so well at POS sieging since you'll be at least as far away as the force field. You will do more DPS with artillery at those ranges, and you wont chew through ammo.
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.05.07 01:03:00 - [76] Well the Nag has the lowest Tank... BUt If u get primaryed your life is comming to a end unless you in a Ammar Cap.. I got for Dmg over Tank.. Hi: 2x6x2500mm repeating artillery I(RF EMP) 2X Cit torps(Your choice) Med: 1xCap SB 1xDG SBA 2xDG Invul 1x1DG EM Hardner Lows: 2xGyroII 3xBcuII 1xDCUII //Or swap a BCUII for a PDUII for a little more shield,cap Rigs: 3xCCC Drones 5xWardens I know shield tanking Nag is not good but u have Ubber dmg out put and the price tags aint too steep.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.07 03:29:00 - [77] The only reason people train Minmatar ships past CSs is for the looks or because they are RPers like myself. If you sit down and get right down to it - Amarr - Gallente - Caldari (only because they ccan actually tank a little if you invest isk) - Minmatar. . .its just simple numbers. But ya, the 'correct; dread is the Rev - anyone in anything else is just lazy to train all the gun skills and such. . .But the Moros does have its uses too - those drones can make a boring siege exciting by using your drones to kill enemy support. . . ----
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.07 05:45:00 - [78] Edited by: Gamesguy on 07/05/2008 05:45:28 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: James Lyrus Yeah, but the Moros does 1000dps or so from drones alone, which is just plain ludicrous. The Moros is (empirically) the second most damaging dread. The Rev actually outdamages it. -Liang Not really true. Rail moros with t2 sentries will outdps the rev(with beams). Its just that most people dont have sentries deployed in those fights, or dont have t2 ones. 5 t2 curators on a moros will do amazing damage with decent tracking. Recent EM base resist decrease also made the traditionally tri-hardened capitals have their lowest resist as EM. This is true on basically any caps where you fit 3 hardeners.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.07 05:53:00 - [79] Originally by: Gamesguy Not really true. Rail moros with t2 sentries will outdps the rev(with beams). Its just that most people dont have sentries deployed in those fights, or dont have t2 ones. 5 t2 curators on a moros will do amazing damage with decent tracking. Recent EM base resist decrease also made the traditionally tri-hardened capitals have their lowest resist as EM. This is true on basically any caps where you fit 3 hardeners. That's a really great insight, Gamesguy. Thanks! It doesn't change the empirical study, but it does provide a bit of a counter-balance. :) It doesn't help the Naglfar though. :( -Liang
Lord Widman Minmatar THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.07 06:19:00 - [80] Would changing the weapon slot layout fix the Nag's problems? For example give it 3 turret hardpoints and two torp hardpoints or do away with the torps alltogether and give it 4 turret hardpoints and change the torp bonus to a tanking bonus.
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.05.07 06:24:00 - [81] Originally by: Lord Widman Would changing the weapon slot layout fix the Nag's problems? For example give it 3 turret hardpoints and two torp hardpoints or do away with the torps alltogether and give it 4 turret hardpoints and change the torp bonus to a tanking bonus. I like that Fact that u can Choose your tank Shield(Way more DPS) Armor(Less Dps/Sub-par tank) The Nag u can fit 4 Dmg Mods. Dont have EFT running but i know Due to useing it in Combat that i works. I also Know if your Primary u will Melt unless helped. Im sure ill get flamed a bit.. Boo CCP!!!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.05.07 10:30:00 - [82] Just giving it a cpu boost so it can shiedl tank with no faction stuff (hell you guys suggesting 2 DG invuls ona d read that is 99% chance to be primary are nuts) woudl be a great help, specially if paired with a bit more cap to use the shield tank :P Anyway the only way to fix it woudl be to drop the cit launchers. Get 3 PRojetile turrets. Change the Citatel bonus into shiedl boost ammount ( change from super typhoon to super maesltrom) and make it a 4/6/6 layout :) ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Mohia Matara The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2008.05.07 10:48:00 - [83] Man's got a point... It is verticle! ___________________ I'm annoying
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.07 12:09:00 - [84] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Gamesguy Not really true. Rail moros with t2 sentries will outdps the rev(with beams). Its just that most people dont have sentries deployed in those fights, or dont have t2 ones. 5 t2 curators on a moros will do amazing damage with decent tracking. Recent EM base resist decrease also made the traditionally tri-hardened capitals have their lowest resist as EM. This is true on basically any caps where you fit 3 hardeners. That's a really great insight, Gamesguy. Thanks! It doesn't change the empirical study, but it does provide a bit of a counter-balance. :) It doesn't help the Naglfar though. :( -Liang More empirical stuff: - most POSes are Minmatar and usually not hardened to have even resists, so the Phoenix is rather good for shooting POSes while Revs kinda suck (for damage anyway, ammo usage is a plus!) - basically Moros is second best at everything, so best overall, Naglfar is not good at anything in particular, so worst overall... EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.05.07 18:08:00 - [85] Revelation and Moros are amazing, Phoenix is pretty crap because citadel torps are pretty crap, but at least it can kinda tank well if you invest enough ISK. Nalfgar gets the two worst capital weapon systems and can't tank well. But hey, it looks really cool :)
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.07 18:37:00 - [86] Something I've always wondered about in capital fights... Carriers often have smarties running. Especially if they're primary. What is the effect of those smarties against volleys of Citadel torps? They're slow enough to be likely to be regularly hit by the smartie cycles, but with 650 HP on a Cit torp it will still survive a couple of hits. How does it work out in game?
goober nuts	Posted - 2008.05.07 20:27:00 - [87] if ya really wanna **** off a phoenix have your tacklers fit rocket launchers with defender missiles
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.05.07 21:10:00 - [88] Originally by: goober nuts if ya really wanna **** off a phoenix have your tacklers fit rocket launchers with defender missiles Since when do phoenix pilots shoot citadels at their tacklers?
Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 01:03:00 - [89] Originally by: goober nuts if ya really wanna **** off a phoenix have your tacklers fit rocket launchers with defender missiles 1. Defender missiles do nothing to citadel torps. 2. The phoenix is shooting your tacklers why?
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 01:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Gamesguy Killmails list damage as the absolute damage done, rather than effective damage done. By absolute damage done, you're essentially referring to EFT damage? I've been doing a fair bit of "alpha striking" people, and I haven't noticed that - my damage on my kills appears to be my "actual" damage that I did. Ex: hits for 50 damage! wrecks for 487 damage! Shows on the mail as 537 - which would be the actual amount of hitpoints of damage that I did (after resists). Are you saying that POS's are different than that (and I'll check my game logs to make sure when I get home). -Liang -- Originally by: Blake Abadon, Morsus Mihi insirgency caused the turn arround in the war against bob, when they forced the MM capital fleet to move back to defend their homeland.

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