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Ingrid Onnatop
Stark Industriez
Stark Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.11.29 06:47:00 -
[181] - Quote
This topic turns me on.
+1 |
Steveir
Hagukure
Empire Industry
17
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Posted - 2011.12.02 05:39:00 -
[182] - Quote
Somewhere in CCP there is a coder gibbering madly after reading your post and realising someone might tell him to make it happen :)
This is epic, if it comes to pass it will elevate EVE to a whole new game; well done. I'm cross posting a few very small and humble idea I was thinking of below. CCP should give you a job - now!
I think expanding PI modules to include offense/defense elements would give PI another layer of gameplay and interlink with Dust in terms of attack and defense of installations. Imagine haveing to ship a few hundred marines to your PI to man the defenses (and next week 50 exotic dancers to improve moral).
The biggest issue with all this is the rewards / returns of current PI. My solution is to create rare earth planets. These planets would create resources which are highly valuable 100 mill a week or more say. Something involved is rig production or t3 hulls, POS, POCO etc.
Rare earth planets exist only in losec and I'm sure CCP can find a tonne of systems that don't have a lot of activity at the moment.
These would be the planets that get fought over by the Dust bunnies |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
123
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Posted - 2011.12.02 14:50:00 -
[183] - Quote
I think these are all good ideas and should be added, but what I'd like to see is focused more on how PI interacts with other planets in an interdependent sort of way, while automating the process so that players don't need to micromanage (but can if they want to) so much and free them up to focus on DUST conflicts which, let's face, it is going to be the main driving force of PI action once it's released.
I'd like to see PI based around an automated, adjustable Import/Export system where planets import resources they need (running an ISK deficit based on what's ) and export surplus (gaining ISK). The automated export system gives 4 options of what to do with resources that are generated: 1: Local requirements (What the current population requires) 2: Wholesale (Planet automatically exports good to closest, highest paying importer planet, further modifiable among planetary ownership along Personal, Inter-Corporate, Inter-Alliance and Public lines) 3: Customs Office (sends it to PCO for sale by anyone) and 4: Surplus (keeps stock planetside awaiting owner pickup.
Lifeless worlds should require the importing of food for anything beyond basic population. Hydroponic farms could be one option, but require energy and space that could be otherwise devoted to extracting more goods. Ambitious players could build up teeming factory cities pumping out vast profit on barren worlds as would be usurpers try to chip away at them by having DUST teams working to secure the food supply (or energy supply) and either gouge or strangle the enterprise.
Also the option of using PI to open manufacturing slots instead of export anything should be an option to give a much-needed boost to low-end nullsec industry.
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FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.02 14:58:00 -
[184] - Quote
I know this is somewhat negative but I really think DUST is gonna fail big. They should of made it for the PC and not PS3.
The only thing I would add to the above is fold in SupCom :) RTS in Eve please. |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University
Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2011.12.02 21:02:00 -
[185] - Quote
TL:DR
But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would.
Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched.
If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there.
End of the story. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
143
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Posted - 2011.12.03 00:04:00 -
[186] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:TL:DR
But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would.
Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched.
If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there.
End of the story.
lol Terraforming is a staple of scifi, so what are you talking about? I know it's a "Hypothesis" but so is FTL.
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FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.12.03 00:25:00 -
[187] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:TL:DR
But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would.
Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched.
If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there.
End of the story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars
You would use asteroids in the belt to impact Mars and create dust to heat up the climate to start with.... this is a 100 thousand times more likely to be doable then FTL. |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University
Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 00:35:00 -
[188] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:Nestara Aldent wrote:TL:DR
But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would.
Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched.
If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there.
End of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_MarsYou would use asteroids in the belt to impact Mars and create dust to heat up the climate to start with.... this is a 100 thousand times more likely to be doable then FTL.
What's written there is just a hypothesis, nothing more. It's in "too much energy needed" category I mentioned. And when and if terraforming becomes possible, gravity of Mars would still require lengthy process of adjustment. In other words, nobody would live there, unless forced to. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.12.03 00:50:00 -
[189] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:Nestara Aldent wrote:TL:DR
But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would.
Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched.
If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there.
End of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_MarsYou would use asteroids in the belt to impact Mars and create dust to heat up the climate to start with.... this is a 100 thousand times more likely to be doable then FTL. What's written there is just a hypothesis, nothing more. It's in "too much energy needed" category I mentioned. And when and if terraforming becomes possible, gravity of Mars would still require lengthy process of adjustment. In other words, nobody would live there, unless forced to.
My point was that it really is not that far fetched, it's just the magnitude of the effort not the technology. |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University
Ivy League
7
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Posted - 2011.12.03 01:15:00 -
[190] - Quote
Forum ate my post. I'll perhaps post here later.  |
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Endovior
Brothers At Arms
Intrepid Crossing
64
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Posted - 2011.12.03 01:28:00 -
[191] - Quote
Uh... this is the future. There are spaceships. There is artificial gravity. These problems ARE solvable.
It IS a valid point that people should probably not be able to easily change around planet types at whim... 'terraforming' a gas giant, in particular, is a fairly ridiculous idea... but that said, there's some validity to letting people tweak the climate a little within the window of what a given planet type allows. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.12.03 01:56:00 -
[192] - Quote
I would say the most basic form would be an installation that just increases output of certain biological commodities. |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University
Ivy League
7
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Posted - 2011.12.03 02:33:00 -
[193] - Quote
Ill post an answer now.
Empires are much more powerful that any player corp will ever be in the game (at least, game lore will never be different), they only tolerate corp sov because it's currently convenient, much like British and Dutch tolerated sovereignty of historical trading companies in the far east just until it bwas useful.
Cloning will not always remain privilege of small amount of rich capsuleers belong to. When the time comes capsuleer corps will be outlawed and system they hold sovereignty on will be claimed by Empires.
(of course we'll not ever play in that era of Eve, for obvious reasons).
Now do you really believe Empires would allow capsuleer corps to mess with, in essence, their planets whose use capsulerrs pay with isk?
And on top of it, I couldn't believe player corporation could wield enough financial resources for such a big project. Technology don't exist yet in the world of Eve, ugly retcon is possible, but first to use it wouldn't be the players. They wouldn't have the money to do so.
And on the top of all, why? Terraforming doesn't give you content you can't get in another, better way. In the same way if Stra Trek franchise could just let Enterprise go, and introduce another ship with a different name,though maybe just of identical make, ugly time travel wouldn't be needed. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
124
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Posted - 2011.12.03 03:57:00 -
[194] - Quote
I dislike the idea of terraforming simply because it doesn't match my idea of what EVE is. Eve as a setting and in lore is like Soylent Green in space, with too many people, not enough livable space and not enough food. Protein Delicacies, mutated livestock, scarcity of 'biomass' for cloning, etc. Having worlds become 'terraformed' in a matter of weeks or whatever totally runs against that, it's too easy an out. I'd rather a system like I suggested where terrestrial worlds (and water) become food sources vital to the running of resource rich plasma and ice worlds, with disruptions the supply of food causing mass depopulations while keeping galactic population levels in check. |
Corazani
Oracle Phoenix
10
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Posted - 2011.12.03 05:02:00 -
[195] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:Ill post an answer now.
And on top of it, I couldn't believe player corporation could wield enough financial resources for such a big project. Technology don't exist yet in the world of Eve, ugly retcon is possible, but first to use it wouldn't be the players. They wouldn't have the money to do so.
tl:dr got you on this point, we actually already covered it. By cannon (as per either The Burning Life or The Empyrean Age novels) terraforming is possible in Eve, just not widely done. In the book, it was done by Korako Kosakami, aka The Rabbit, head of the Guristas.
A better known example is Caldari Prime. There are more in the Evelopedia too.
But as a pod pilot, it should be out of reach. Alliances on a scale of the Empires, sure, maybe. But smaller than that? Forget it. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
853
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Posted - 2011.12.03 05:56:00 -
[196] - Quote
Corazani wrote:Nestara Aldent wrote:Ill post an answer now.
And on top of it, I couldn't believe player corporation could wield enough financial resources for such a big project. Technology don't exist yet in the world of Eve, ugly retcon is possible, but first to use it wouldn't be the players. They wouldn't have the money to do so. tl:dr got you on this point, we actually already covered it. By cannon (as per either The Burning Life or The Empyrean Age novels) terraforming is possible in Eve, just not widely done. In the book, it was done by Korako Kosakami, aka The Rabbit, head of the Guristas. A better known example is Caldari Prime. There are more in the Evelopedia too. But as a pod pilot, it should be out of reach. Alliances on a scale of the Empires, sure, maybe. But smaller than that? Forget it.
This.
Eve has terraforming. The initial worlds that were colonized in new Eden before the eve gate collapsed, were in that process. When the gate closed, that process stopped because they could no longer obtain resources from the galaxy that earth was in. Hence why the old and first Eve online introduction mentions the unfinished worlds of eve dying and evolution stepping in while the knowledge of man eroded over the millenniums.
I did mention this process should be expensive, akin too if not surpassing super cap construction in terms of resources, infrastructure and time. It's not like every alliance out there is currently building Titans. So I can't see every 7 man hi-sec corp terraforming a planet either... |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.12.03 12:15:00 -
[197] - Quote
Somewhat off topic but what is a good start to reading the back story of Eve? Are there any books? |
Corazani
Oracle Phoenix
10
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Posted - 2011.12.03 13:36:00 -
[198] - Quote
As far as I'm aware there are just the two books. First there's The Empyrean Age which details the lead-up to the Caldari-Gallente war (ie the crashing of the Nyx, etc...) and the machinations behind/around it. The second is The Burning Life, which takes the lives of four people within New Eden and follows them through a portion of their lives in relation to a number of Pirate factions.
For more backstory, there is Link to the Eve Backstory which you can also access from the main site navbar under Eve Online->Backstory
That's just the "direct from CCP" stuff. Beyond that would likely be a summary of major alliance events/shifts/collapses/wars that have occured. A bit of googling will yield some fairly nice results on both (amongst others, there was a nice pdf timeline someone put together floating around). |
Bronn Stormborn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.03 18:02:00 -
[199] - Quote
I have only read the first couple posts so far but this is some amazing stuff, I will give further thoughts when I finish reading it all but so far so very very good! |
FeralShadow
Black Storm Cartel
21
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Posted - 2011.12.04 00:07:00 -
[200] - Quote
This is all terrific. I dont even think about doing anything with PI now, but if this came to pass I would likely dedicate all my playtime to it. |
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
858
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Posted - 2011.12.04 19:03:00 -
[201] - Quote
I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file. |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers
BricK sQuAD.
19
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Posted - 2011.12.04 20:19:00 -
[202] - Quote
This is exactly the kind of thing I would love to see in PI.
I have played the Imperium Galacticas and the Simcitys and taking the best ideas from there and incorporating them into eve would just rock!
I also love the idea how your citys and planets develop and grow over time like skillpoints. The more population the more you can do the more tax you create.
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Gempei
Siberian Khatru.
19
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Posted - 2011.12.06 12:50:00 -
[203] - Quote
+1 to all ideas in this thread  |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
152
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Posted - 2011.12.06 22:27:00 -
[204] - Quote
Endovior wrote:Uh... this is the future. There are spaceships. There is artificial gravity. These problems ARE solvable.
It IS a valid point that people should probably not be able to easily change around planet types at whim... 'terraforming' a gas giant, in particular, is a fairly ridiculous idea... but that said, there's some validity to letting people tweak the climate a little within the window of what a given planet type allows.
Yea, we're not saying that you should be able to just change climates on a whim. If EVE does Terraforming, it needs to be a Titan level logistical effort and should take at least a month to complete.
Again its sci fi - there are MANY examples of this happening in science fiction - this is why its called science fiction and last time I checked, EVE online is based on science fiction
Off the top of my head, two movies that I'm sure most people have seen have elements of terraforming:
Aliens - LV-426 - Terraformed planet
Total Recall - Mars - Terraformed planet
Here are some other examples of terraforming in sci fi
Terraforming
It's totally plausible that in a sci fi game, you're allowed to terraform planets, especially if EVE is to become the ultimate "sci fi" simulator. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
Tribal Conclave
18
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Posted - 2011.12.07 06:31:00 -
[205] - Quote
+417231451233 to this topic! I cant W8 to see if dust will take some ideas from here or not... |
Evenus Battuta
13
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Posted - 2011.12.07 07:58:00 -
[206] - Quote
I like every idea that makes combat happens elsewhere than stargates------ planet orbit will be best place to fight.
Endless gatecamp is plain stupid. |
Horus V
0
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Posted - 2011.12.11 17:16:00 -
[207] - Quote
+1
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Xantos Semah
SON OF RAVANA
Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers
0
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Posted - 2011.12.16 12:32:00 -
[208] - Quote
The current PI is just too poor if CCP wants the dust 514 to be a succesfull game. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
244
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Posted - 2011.12.17 14:25:00 -
[209] - Quote
Interesting |
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S
18
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Posted - 2011.12.17 21:03:00 -
[210] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:I think the only real problem I have with it is this... I'm already committed to half an hour or so of PI per day, longer when things need rearranging. I'd worry that this would push things towards being so complex that someone that relies on PI to keep the pos running (and for extra income) will find it taking far more time... spending the majority of my Eve time playing with planets isn't really what I'm looking for.
Perhaps these concerns wouldn't be realized, but they need to be thought of.
I would say hire folks on the planet to help your PI out for a small fee.
Cool story bro..
GÇ£Quod licet Iovi non licet boviGÇ¥- Gods may do what cattle may not.
"Amat victoria curam"- Victory favours those who take pains. |
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