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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
478
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 20:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions.
Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 21:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
I absolutely LOVE your concepts, though there is one small thing I'd like to point out:
civilian, industry, and military operations go hand in hand in hand with each other. Without one, the others will fall apart or never grow very much.
If anything, one can implement this as a synergy bonus, to further encourage people to do things that would otherwise not be done. (like dropping a civilian command center on a plasma planet). Using the example, if several people can get together and help one guy get his civilian PI going, the others will have their military and industry PI doing all the better, and the civilian guy reaps the fruit of his labors and serious respect.
Just some thoughts.
[EDIT] For an idea as massive as this, I'd gladly help out however I can!
oh, and along with slave pens (Amarr), get Brothels (Galente) and Casinos (Caldari)
Then figure something out for the minmatarr Where the science gets done |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
495
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 04:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
tankus2 wrote:I absolutely LOVE your concepts, though there is one small thing I'd like to point out:
civilian, industry, and military operations go hand in hand in hand with each other. Without one, the others will fall apart or never grow very much.
If anything, one can implement this as a synergy bonus, to further encourage people to do things that would otherwise not be done. (like dropping a civilian command center on a plasma planet). Using the example, if several people can get together and help one guy get his civilian PI going, the others will have their military and industry PI doing all the better, and the civilian guy reaps the fruit of his labors and serious respect.
Just some thoughts.
Yup, I was of such a mind when I posted this. Synergy is at the core of this idea, but as suggested with the planetary overhaul and it's impact on the various PI types, those deathbearing worlds will be an uphill battle for civilian PI, but be a goldmine if it could be pulled off.
tankus2 wrote:I For an idea as massive as this, I'd gladly help out however I can!
oh, and along with slave pens (Amarr), get Brothels (Galente) and Casinos (Caldari)
Then figure something out for the minmatarr
Gallente brothels is just win! Especially if Incarna will allow me to walk around in them and use my female alts for said service.
I endorse that proposal fully..
|

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 21:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Asuka Solo, from the 'Advanced PI' thread wrote:The skills your after... I included as upgrades in my suggestion.And PI was more profitable when you had to reset each individual extractor. Less people willing to put up with 3 hours of clicking. Now we all just spam 20 accounts each and reset them all in the same amount of time, flooding the market in cheap stuff. We can make PI even easier... but in order to offset the flooding... we need to create more demand for PI goods at the same time or risk reducing PI goods to the value of veldspar. God forbid.
Perhaps a way to ensure PI prices don't drop like a stone would be to have PI require PI things. For example, you need food, water, and air for your basic service hubs on a civilian CC, right? so why not have people keep their basic service hubs stocked with such things (especially on planets that have nothing naturally, like plasma!)
With that, another very large consumer or PI will come about along with the ability to produce a lot more with PI, balancing it all out.
[edit]: to make things less confusing, this quote came from this thread Where the science gets done |

NIJofleyUK
Roflcopter m8. STR8NGE BREW
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 11:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Friendly Bump for awesome sauce! |

Susiqueta Muir
Disturbed Blood Astrometrics
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 12:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
GRR, just had to re-type all this......
My thought is that each planet should have one single central trade hub that controls import/export to orbit (and related taxes) plus trade planetside between players and corps.
If players want to move items off world then they need to move items through this hub, paying any taxes which are set in place by the owning Corp.
Hubs can be owned by podder corps or Dustie merc units. Podders can hire NPC merc resources (weekly fee, more isk=better troops) to claim ownership over the hub. This will allow the ownership of the hub to change hands, but also populate the planet with AI troops for Dusties to fight against. If there are no Dusties then Eve pilots will have a mechanism for cliaming control. their troops could also gain benefits for control if the eve corp can get a Cap-ship in orbit and use it to bombard enemy positions.
Players could then move PI commodities to this central store and use it to set-up large scale production chains with corp members (giving them something else they need to defend).
All taxes from moving items will be set by the corp in control and will be an additional income stream. Any other player/corp who wants to use the planet will need to pay the taxes or take control of the Hub, through hiring sufficient npc-mercs or Dusties.
What this will give is a reason for Dusties and Podders to interract, reasons to hire them, NPC-AI for the dusties to combat and influence for Dusties over eve corps (and potentially sovreignty etc...)
With no caps in highsec, dusties can be introduced to combat in high-sec systems, then move onto the more complex game (with additional experience/equipment etc) buy moving on to low and Null-sec systems where the rewards along with the challenge/risks would be higher.
Keeping it simple, this would integrate the two systems and give players from both communities things to fight over, reasons to engage and benefits from having ownership.
SM. |

Ranud Sunraker
Brothers of Destiny Phobia.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 13:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:
Research Institute (new -> 100 employees, 450 power grid, 900 CPU, 2500 isk daily operational cost) 2 slot lab, 0,5 modifier, 4 different types: i) Amarr Research Institute GÇô Invention bonus??? ii) Caldari Research Institute GÇô Copy speed bonus iii) Gallente Research Institute GÇô Productivity bonus iv) Minmatar Research Institute GÇô ME bonus * Research institutes will enable the manufacturing of datacores using existing PI mechanisms, i.e. Select the blueprint from the list and manufacture over time.
The Amarr are not really known for their creative mindset. Rather efficient and quick mass production. Gallente are more likely to be the creative guys. I'd suggest to exchange the boni of Gallente and Amarr. |

skajit spey
Wormhole Exploration Crew Night Sky Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 13:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
bump
I was going to suggest something simpler to start....like...right click on temperate planet > land at any one of 1 to xx spaceports(must have unique names/enviroments...not just a 'door') with agents > courier missions > off world transport of goods/passengers > encoounter missions > intercept escaping smuggler in Millenium Falcon (sorry!) .....what have you > with a whole new class of ships.
The OP is much more comprehensive and though out. Well done...ALL THAT!!!
|

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
516
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 14:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ranud Sunraker wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:
Research Institute (new -> 100 employees, 450 power grid, 900 CPU, 2500 isk daily operational cost) 2 slot lab, 0,5 modifier, 4 different types: i) Amarr Research Institute GÇô Invention bonus??? ii) Caldari Research Institute GÇô Copy speed bonus iii) Gallente Research Institute GÇô Productivity bonus iv) Minmatar Research Institute GÇô ME bonus * Research institutes will enable the manufacturing of datacores using existing PI mechanisms, i.e. Select the blueprint from the list and manufacture over time.
The Amarr are not really known for their creative mindset. Rather efficient and quick mass production. Gallente are more likely to be the creative guys. I'd suggest to exchange the boni of Gallente and Amarr.
Fair point. I agree.
I'll make a note to swap those around when I repost this in the assembly hall.
Ranud Sunraker wrote: I was going to suggest something simpler to start....like...right click on temperate planet > land at any one of 1 to xx spaceports(must have unique names/enviroments...not just a 'door') with agents > courier missions > off world transport of goods/passengers > encoounter missions > intercept escaping smuggler in Millenium Falcon (sorry!) .....what have you > with a whole new class of ships.
My idea would have been to restrict player/corp/alliance owned agents (that give their owners a cut of each players payout as tax etc) that could give you security, research or distribution/courier missions only to the big "Capital cities". Otherwise every player owned civilian network would setup a bar, spam agents and thus end up flooding the game with more agents than players. Granted, this would not reduce the value of agents or manifest in reduced income from commodities, but it would play havoc with pvpers who enjoy ganking mission runners and at some point, force a revamp of agents that would not go down well with PI farmers.
However, allowing every city and or single network to just spam agents would not go down well in terms of creating attention seeking value that would make players flock to one city, or even fight over those cities if their out in the middle of soviet mordor.
But you get the general idea. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
516
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 14:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
Susiqueta Muir wrote:GRR, just had to re-type all this......
My thought is that each planet should have one single central trade hub that controls import/export to orbit (and related taxes) plus trade planetside between players and corps.
If players want to move items off world then they need to move items through this hub, paying any taxes which are set in place by the owning Corp.
Hubs can be owned by podder corps or Dustie merc units. Podders can hire NPC merc resources (weekly fee, more isk=better troops) to claim ownership over the hub. This will allow the ownership of the hub to change hands, but also populate the planet with AI troops for Dusties to fight against. If there are no Dusties then Eve pilots will have a mechanism for cliaming control. their troops could also gain benefits for control if the eve corp can get a Cap-ship in orbit and use it to bombard enemy positions.
Players could then move PI commodities to this central store and use it to set-up large scale production chains with corp members (giving them something else they need to defend).
All taxes from moving items will be set by the corp in control and will be an additional income stream. Any other player/corp who wants to use the planet will need to pay the taxes or take control of the Hub, through hiring sufficient npc-mercs or Dusties.
What this will give is a reason for Dusties and Podders to interract, reasons to hire them, NPC-AI for the dusties to combat and influence for Dusties over eve corps (and potentially sovreignty etc...)
With no caps in highsec, dusties can be introduced to combat in high-sec systems, then move onto the more complex game (with additional experience/equipment etc) buy moving on to low and Null-sec systems where the rewards along with the challenge/risks would be higher.
Keeping it simple, this would integrate the two systems and give players from both communities things to fight over, reasons to engage and benefits from having ownership.
SM.
You might be on to something here. But this would need some more fleshing out.
1) Dust players would need a mechanism of ownership i.e Skills like Eve players for Command centers, or else they would not be able to physically assign ownership of such a building or network segment to a corp ceo/individual player.
2) A transfer mechanism like a courier contract for the goods that will end up going through this building. If players simply had to pay the corp who owned the trade hub and then magically give them their stuff, nothing would prevent the hub owners from taking their isk and their goods and just keeping it for themselves, thus ruining the city trading mechanism or turning it into a pirate haven.
3) The scale and level at which such a building would operate. Basically, a trade hub would bring about planetary markets, where goods no longer had to be sold on stations, but could be stored and sold/purchased on planets instead, outside of spaceships and station hangers. But instead of linking each network within a city to a tradehub, I'd propose linking individual cities to 1 planetary trade hub. This would then facilitate inter city trade on the planet (allowing cities to produce various items in eve and then trade them free market style) and can become the main market customs office for off-world trade in terms of imports and exports.
How would a planetary trade-hub effect Eve's Cities then? i) Dust and Eve players would then vie for control of the planetary trade hub at all times. Bigger cities with bigger markets would attract bigger alliances hoping for bigger financial cuts.
ii) Planetary Trade-hub owners can impose taxes on any item that goes through, as well as provide a very solid foundation for planetary customs, i.e What those alliances would like to declare as illegal/confiscate-able contraband . This would lead to market control in the form of controlling the types and quantity of goods flowing through the city veins, or control which players can or cannot buy items from planetary cities. |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 19:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
damn, this is one of those ideas that get better and better the more people talk about it. Its all about the refining baby!
[edit] wow, first on the third page! Where the science gets done |

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 20:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Where's the EVE-Dust link? Ultimately there has to be something for Capsuleers to hire DUST or NPC mercs to do. Part of running PI will be managing mercenary attacks/defenses. This must be incorporated into the ideas presented here.
You mention "downtime" a scary number of times in this article. The developers are desperately trying to remove all dependence on downtime, with the aim of having EVE running 24x7. Don't require any dependence on downtime, describe "at downtime" things in terms of a discrete event happening a number of hours from certain conditions being met, or steady progress at a particular rate.
PI must include DUST by design, not by bolt-on after the fact.
Well, if there were cities in play, this would allow for a new facet of Dust, which would be MOUT (Military Operations Urban Terrain) and Close Quarters Combat. It could also affect mechanics for Dust Marines by having contracts that state that they have to minimize civilian casualties, or could put them against insurgent groups trying to defend their homes. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 00:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions.
Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list.
I think you have your requirements down with excess (especially likes, damn!) Where the science gets done |

Corazani
Oracle Phoenix
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 14:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote: ... or control which players can or cannot buy items from planetary cities.
I suddenly have this vision of a pilot decanting to have a stroll along the planetary Incarna mall, only to be stopped at the entry gate by MPs and being informed by the MPs that they've been declared persona non grata (based on standings of course). That and if such persons did find a way in (clone smuggling anyone?), billboards around the place could be showing CONCORD style wanted ads reminding the locals to keep an eye out for such deviants.
"Remember citizens: vigilance is safety. This message brought to you by QUAFE(tm) PerceptiMax Cola; it's like having eyes in the back of your head!" |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
96
|
Posted - 2011.10.07 15:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Screw this. I don't log on to spend hours doing PI. I do it to fuel my pos and put a little extra isk in the pocket.
Making things more complicated for the sake of making things more complicated benefits noone ultimately. Besides, how in the hell do you expect these populations centers to pop up in a wormhole? Yeah, civilians will really go for that... Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 03:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Screw this. I don't log on to spend hours doing PI. I do it to fuel my pos and put a little extra isk in the pocket.
Making things more complicated for the sake of making things more complicated benefits noone ultimately. Besides, how in the hell do you expect these populations centers to pop up in a wormhole? Yeah, civilians will realltechnically "y go for that...
The idea keeps the simplicity you currently use, but adds much more depth to those wanting more from planets (as was advertised with the original launch of Tyrannis).
Also, technically, how do customs offices get into wormhole space? They shouldn't exist either...
But I don't see why population centers couldn't develop in wspace. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |

Nutty Grandad
Mental Clowns Sev3rance
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 06:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Best darned post ever! +1
Problem is, will CCP a) read it and b) ever take note of what players ACTUALLY want? Would like to see how their 'preferred' botters would get their teeth into it. lol
|

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
517
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 08:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
tankus2 wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions.
Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. I think you have your requirements down with excess (especially likes, damn!)
I'm currently doing the whole Office Word thing, systematically redrafting this topic with another 2-3 pages of new additions, changes, like:
- Sub capital ships (Pods, shuttles, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, battle cruisers and battleships) being able to agress PI structures, but they would have to fly into the atmosphere, get to within their conventional Eve turret/target range (2km - 90km) and then be able to target and fire upon structures or Dust targets on the surface and air. They would also become subject to planetary Aggression Timers, but would not be made vulnerable to the big anti cap guns that can be placed on the surface by Military PI networks.
- This would make sub capital ships vulnerable to Dust attacks from small arms, medium arms, planetary fighters/flying vehicles, tanks, Dust based anti infantry/vehicle/air turrets etc.
- Sub capital ships in the atmosphere of any planet will not be able to warp away if things go wrong, since the friction and speed would rip their hulls apart. They would first have to break orbit (going back the way the capital ships are located in, in orbit, so lots of camping potential there) before they can flee. They can also not use micro-warp drives in the atmosphere, since this would have a similar effect over a slightly longer duration. Only afterburners could be used to increase their speed. Their maneuverability would also be severely impaired by the atmosphere of the planets.
- Fleshing out the social slots (places where players can setup shops etc) and areas of Cities (like promenades, balconies, market squares etc)
- Fleshing out the planetary/city market system
- Introducing a smuggling system that makes sense and actually means something for the market system for planets.
- Introducing a ship theft mechanism for unguarded ships parked at star ports.
- Building a license system (Similar to the hi-sec faction charters for towers) for player/corp/alliance owned Agents and missions that could be made available to other players based on inter corp standings. This system would be dreadfully expensive.
- Adding more building variety (slave pens, pleasure hubs, casino's, bars etc) and refining the existing proposed buildings for civilian and military PI networks.
I'm also trying to make the first few posts a bit more readable, hoping to reduce the giant wall of text to make it more Assembly Hall friendly.
It's not a fast process. |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.08 18:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
all good things take a lot of time and effort to make, and this is certainly one of them! Where the science gets done |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
538
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 18:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bumping this in the hope that a dev will read it before I repost it with more additions......... again |

Azziej
Pixelmoon The Star League
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 19:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
so, let me get this right...
As a capsuleer you are already immortal and may call yourself a god if you will. (lovely intro movie when you start the game for the first time). But now you actually want to Qadhafify yourself to rule your own planet????
Come on how much more unrealistic can it get.
I beg you all to keep science fiction possible and not start adding elves and dwarfes and orcs into the game.... THANK YOU!!! |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 22:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
uhhh... ok? This is a humans-only universe here and all factions involved are humans, though some are augmented with technology. Even the chaps who strap an iPhone to the side of their head.
Though thank you for the bump, however random it was. Where the science gets done |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
538
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 09:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
Azziej wrote:so, let me get this right...
As a capsuleer you are already immortal and may call yourself a god if you will. (lovely intro movie when you start the game for the first time). But now you actually want to Qadhafify yourself to rule your own planet????
Come on how much more unrealistic can it get.
I beg you all to keep science fiction possible and not start adding elves and dwarfes and orcs into the game.... THANK YOU!!!
You got it wrong.
Orcs and Elves.... I don't know what you were reading....
And Qadhafify? What are you smoking? |

Azziej
Pixelmoon The Star League
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Your PI 2.0 is a fantasy story and that's exactly why i bring elves, dwarfs and orcs up. Science fiction is based on advanced technologies that are very much possible to happen in a short or long period of time. Do you see us on planet earth being told what to do and pay tax to a plonker in a space ship??? I find it so incredibly sad that people are adding so much freaking fantasy to the genre. |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
I think you are reading into this incorrectly. We would pay taxes to some 'plonker in a space ship', a term you so eloquently used, if said plonker had bought and dropped, with their own funds, our entire city.
This would be like some billionaire today setting up a town and inviting people to live there, even though they'd have to pay him a small tax in return for him already building a nice, clean, brand-new town without all of the corruption, crime, or disrepair that everywhere else shows. Better yet, he also set up several industries for folks to work at and an academy that, upon completing a course, guarantees you a job among the stars! Then there is the military base that has been set up, which is an even bigger positive thing (more jobs et cetra)
So no, this is not 'loler trolls r pwnin ur base!', this is science fiction that can actually happen, if the people who can drop the kind of money necessary to make it happen were so generous. However, they are few on this little jewel of a planet. In Eve, we are everywhere. Where the science gets done |
|

CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
76

|
Posted - 2011.10.22 17:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nutty Grandad wrote:Best darned post ever! +1
Thank you very much, Asuka Solo. Also big thanks to the participants in the following fruitful discussion! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
|

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
540
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 19:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Azziej wrote:Your PI 2.0 is a fantasy story and that's exactly why i bring elves, dwarfs and orcs up.
You definition of sci-fi and your ability to comprehend is a fantasy.
Azziej wrote:Science fiction is based on advanced technologies that are very much possible to happen in a short or long period of time.
All these proposed technologies and ideas in this topic already exists in the Eve lore and exists in reality today, with the exception of terraforming, which I believe you'll clearly define as Sci-fi.
Azziej wrote:Do you see us on planet earth being told what to do and pay tax to a plonker in a space ship???
Yes.
The same way CCP sees you paying tax for your own PI goods to the brosef in your alliance that owns the customs office....
The same way CCP sees us renting space from people who don't own it....
The same people who live multiple lightyears away in their spaceships...
Who then force you to pay tax just so you can dock and use their 0.0 stations....
Or pay tax for standings....
Azziej wrote:I find it so incredibly sad that people are adding so much freaking fantasy to the genre.
The only thing being added here is depth to a sci-fi world. If you don't like it, WoW is that way ->.
You obviously seem to have the disposition for it. |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 19:53:00 -
[58] - Quote
Asuka, don't let some person who has the wrong ideas trash your thread for you. He either thought he had a point, which was cleanly dismissed, or was trolling. The good he did do for this threadnaught was put it on the front page again, and I'll have to give him that.
Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a spot of tea as the various engineers throughout empire space design your new planetary structures. Where the science gets done |

TuonelanOrja
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 20:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Your **** sounds like original episode I script, I'm glad you stole it.. what you think next will happen now |

Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
11
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 21:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
like those ideas. would be make PI interesting for me to part take in, as I am not nessary interested in using PI to simply make isk |
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