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Planetary Interaction 2.0 - (Cities, tax, terraforming and beyond)

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Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:12:00 - [1] - Quote [Part 1 of 14] Please note, this threadnought is about 15 posts long. TL:DR version GÇóAdd 2 new types of PI GÇóCivilian PI (Caesar, imperium Galactica games), focus on building civilian habitat networks, providing services, increase quality of life of settlement, collect taxes, increase population growth rate, consumes (oxygen(on non oxygen planet types) water, livestock, gen livestock, dancers, wine, planetary vehicles, janitors) to sustain operations. Will not focus on resources, but rather operational ranges of buildings which denote service delivery to the segment population. More overlapping, lower taxes, better service delivery, increases birth/migration rate, thus increasing the population as a resource for taxes or conversion. Better services improves standard of living and increases city development index, less overlapping = poor delivery, higher taxes & poor delivery decreases standard of living, increases death rate/migration rate and decreases development index. Can produce ship crews via academies by converting population of city. Enable industrial/Civilian PI to generate military units/dancers from population for consumption GÇóMilitary PI, focus on building defenses for existing PI networks, includes planetary shields and planetary guns to protect PI segments inside shield radius and attack capitals in orbit with planetary aggression, consumes (soldiers, militia, small arms, isk, stront) to sustain operations. GÇóIntroduction of ship crews creation mechanism GÇóIntroduction of planetary aggression timers for dreadnoughts, Titans and supporting carriers in planetary orbit, allows dreadnoughts & Titans to aggress PI structures from orbit. GÇóIntroduction of city development index for planets. Info tab, population count, birth/death rates, current tax base, adjustable tax levels, total value of planetary economy, list of cities/PI networks on planet + who owns them. Also introduces new planetary attributes, population growth rate, death rate, fuel requirements for different PI segment types on different planet types etc. GÇóIntroduction of PI cities as an alliance/fleet type entity for planets. Combines multiple PI segments into one segment that gives bonuses to other segment types. Industrial PI produces commodities, creates employment for planetary population. Civilian PI increases planetary population, provides places for population to reside (Implies social areas for incarna), generates isk in form of tax, gives industrial PI productivity bonus depending on city development index, consumes PI based commodities. Military PI produces ship crews which grant additional ship bonuses, similar to rigs/implants, provides protection for PI from orbital attacks from Eve players, consumes PI based commodities GÇóChanging cities into solid entities such as stations/offices, displayed on info tabs of various stakeholder corporations/alliances that can be attacked, influenced or lost. Subsequently, each GÇ£cityGÇ¥ will generate lights on the planetGÇÖs graphics. 1 city, 1 set of city graphics. 2 cities, 2 sources etc. GÇóAdd city/Planetary tabs to corporation/alliance information tabs, list segments/cities and total isk value of each city. GÇóEnable Eve players to lose control of / destroy or cut off cities/individual PI segments from owners with capital orbital bombarding, requires Dust side recapture. GÇóPlanetary attribute overhaul GÇóIntroduction of PI-Hubs + range of level related upgrades, similar to sovereignty system GÇóIntroduction of planetside BPO research and ship/ship module manufacturing, will use mined ores/minerals, imported via customs to facilitate manufacturing as per existing POS mechanisms GÇóIntroduction of Terraforming + a range of new skills for PI *********************************************** Hence forth follows the suggestion in detail Index: Introduction** 1.0 ICC (Industrial Command Centers) 1.1 CCC (Civilian Command Centers) 1.2 MCC (Military Command Centers) 2.0 Planetary attribute Overhaul & additions 2.1 Planetary population growth/death rates 3.0 PI Cities + Capital Cities 3.1 City Development Index & PI-Hub upgrades 3.2 Connecting PI Networks to Cities (PI-Hubs) 3.3 Conquering/Destroying Cities 4.0 Terra-forming 4.1 Terra-forming chains (Type to type conversions) 5.0 City location penalties 6.0 Skills for PI 2.0
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:14:00 - [2] - Quote [Part 2 of 14] Introduction At present, the current PI system is industrially orientated; this is to say that it focuses on producing commodities via raw material extraction only. There is also a severe lack of teamwork with PI, since there is no form of interaction between planetary networks or between capsuleers and planetary networks beyond the owner. This suggestion aims to bridge that gap by proposing sweeping changes and additions that include a larger range of Command Centres with different functions and goals, which will drastically change the current PI game and add eve like depth to the existing planetary interaction mechanism. This can be done by classifying the current Command Centres as Industrial Command Centres (ICC) and introducing 2 new classes, those of Civilian and Military Command Centres (CCC and MCC respectively). This proposal will also incorporate the ever popular and much debated ship crewsGÇÖ suggestion available here: [url] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=493711[/url], by providing a possible creation mechanism, using the existing setups for Industrial based PI, only utilizing Civilian PI. Next up, the introduction of additional planetary attributes that will give rise to planetary populations as a planetary resource (Which grant bonuses similar to fleet bonuses to the City networks) and that will need employment via the various network type buildings, which will receive bonuses from newly introduced Planetary Infrastructure hubs. The remainder of the population or the constant new arrivals being attracted to the city will ultimately have to be converted into misc commodities such as exotic dancers, janitors, military units or crew units for additional implant style bonuses for eve ships, in addition to grinding up the city development index. In addition, this proposal also incorporates suggestions that could enable capsuleers to create GÇ£CitiesGÇ¥ on planets, by combining existing PI segments into a planet side alliance of Command Centres that ties in with existing space sovereignty mechanics, by drawing inspiration from and indeed basing the city concept in part on an older game, Imperium Galactica 2. The introduction of a new City UI interface/menu where players can view the attributes of their cities, and enable city managers to change a number of settings, ranging from city tax rate, viewing the city economy status which will be an indication of the value of each city, change the city name/ownership/standings, manage the various network links the city consists of in a screen similar to a fittings tab, only about the planets and respective cities. This will change existing networks on planets into growing, living, breathing foci of attention that Dust can exploit later on, into personal passive income generators for civilian PI farmers who wished for an Eve element of civilization in their PI experience, into fleet bonuses for existing industrial oriented PI spammers that would see them gain 25% production bonuses, 25% more powergrid per network, 25% less powergrid requirements for ecuGÇÖs, 25% resource regeneration bonuses and so on and introduce anti-Dust & anti-Eve defensive mechanisms for the various settlements located on planetGÇÖs surface with the anticipation of planets one day obtaining sovereignty/occupancy mechanisms. In addition, the concept of terra-forming planets from 1 type to another is included with a basic outline of how this mechanism will work for 0.0 based planets in addition to the skills required for such time and isk intensive operations. Lastly, this suggestion also applies the concept of Orbital Bombardment using Dreads & Titans as explored in fanfest 2011 (Thereby expanding their existing application base from merely POS sieges and anti-capital warfare) to Planetary Interaction, along with planetary aggression timers (PATs) & Planetary Incursions to compliment the Dust mechanisms that we are currently aware/unaware of and the proposed military network planetary defences that will be available. It will be like shooting a POS, only youGÇÖll be ganking planetary Carebears. Hopefully this proposal will lay the foundations to create a richer environment and experience for both Eve and Dust players with regards to planetary operations. My hope is that this suggestion will do for PI, what Incarna will do for Eve.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:17:00 - [3] - Quote [Part 3 of 14] 1.0 Industrial Command Centers (ICC) Industrial PI will remain largely unaffected by this suggestion, with the exception of PI-Hub bonuses, the inclusion of an industrial development index similar to sovereignty mechanics, only measured in terms of # of commodities produced per day/week/month and the introduction of one or two new installation types that include manufacturing and researching slots for planets and ice mines for ice planets. These slots will enable planetside BPO researching/copying much in the same way as a POS with labs would, and planetside module/component manufacturing from blueprints as per existing POS/Outpost manufacturing mechanics. Finally, the introduction of planet based ice mining from ice planets, using newly introduced ice mines. (Existing PI as deployed in Incursion 1.1/1.2) Industrial PI Structures: Industrial Command Center (add 500 employees attribute, no additional changes) Basic facility (add 700 employees attribute, no additional changes) Advanced facility (add 850 employees attribute, no additional changes) Elite facility (add 1000 employees attribute, no additional changes) Launch pads (add 1500 employees attribute, no additional changes) Storage facilities (changed into corporate hangers) Extractor hubs/Drills (add 500 employees attribute for ECUs, 50 employees per drill, no additional changes) Links (add 20 employees attribute per level, no additional changes) Factory (new -> 700 employees, 800 power grid, 500 CPU) Factories are single slot production buildings (similar to POS based modules) that allow mined ores and blue prints (both of which need to be imported via the customs office and stored in a storage facility) to be used in the production of ships, modules or capital ship components. The speed of production is reduced significantly compared to POS based manufacturing, as to avoid making POS & outpost manufacturing redundant. Ice Mine (new -> 700 employees, 800 power grid, 500 CPU) Ice mines can only be placed on Ice planets. A combination between a processor and an ECU, the player selects a desired ice type from the list of 4 types (clear, blue, ? & ?), while also selecting a cycle time in accordance with his or her preference and routes the ice mine to a storage facility. The Ice Mine will produce 1 unit/block of ice every cycle for the duration of the cycle program. Note, ice mines do not require careful placement, resources or scanning to be done prior to operations commencing. Space based mining fleets will mine significantly more ice in a shorter duration compared to this installation, as to avoid making ice belts redundant. Research Institute (new -> 100 employees, 450 power grid, 900 CPU, 2500 isk daily operational cost) 2 slot lab, 0,5 modifier, 4 different types:* i) Amarr Research Institute GÇô Invention bonus??? ii) Caldari Research Institute GÇô Copy speed bonus iii) Gallente Research Institute GÇô Productivity bonus iv) Minmatar Research Institute GÇô ME bonus * Research institutes will enable the manufacturing of datacores using existing PI mechanisms, i.e. Select the blueprint from the list and manufacture over time. Corporate Hanger (500 employees, 900 power grid, 2100 CPU, 100 000m3 capacity) Storage facilities have always been a 3rd boob. Nice to look at but not really functional in light of the superior storage and dual functionality of launch pads. A corp hanger with superior storage is the next logical buff for the neglected storage facility. The 100k m3 storage capacity will enable planetside module and even capital ship component manufacturing by storing imported mined ores on the planetGÇÖs surface, while at the same time requiring launch pads to import and export goods/materials. Due to limitations of customs office storage, no ships bigger than destroyers/cruisers can be built on the planetGÇÖs surface.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:20:00 - [4] - Quote [Part 4 of 14] 1.1 Civilian Command Centers (CCC) The entire premise of Civilian PI will revolve around creating and supporting habitable zones on planets to enable the settlement of planetary populations and the installations of governments. Each planet type will have a unique population growth rate modifier in terms of new migrants/new births and a death rate. The provision of basic services via the various structures that will be discussed in the following paragraphs will help create richer habitable zones within an operational range around the Civilian Command Center and will be measured using a similar system to existing Industrial PI resources, with a similar grading system. The twist is that the population becomes the resource, thus with civilian PI you create resources versus Industrial PI where you deplete them. This mechanism will help lay the foundations for taxation, as a means of generating isk from the total number of settlers located on the network/city, at the expense of running on a fuel system, similar to a POS, whereby the civilian networks need to be supplied with commodities such as wine, food, water, vehicles, dancers, janitors etc in order to remain functional. Some of these commodities will be producible on civilian networks by converting the required number of settlers using the appropriate structures, such as dancers, janitors and alike. The civilian planets will also introduce the platforms to allow the manufacturing of ship crews through Academies which can be placed on civilian network segments as one would place an industrial facility/processor. Academies work in much the same way as existing facilities do. The desired crew schematic (selectable from a long list of different types of crew and officers etc) is selected from the list of schematics and installed into the academy. Instead of using raw materials to produce the crews, the academy draws from the cityGÇÖs population at a 1:1 ratio. Naturally, training does not come cheap or free, so a nominal fee will be charged depending on the quality/grade/type of crew being trained, to cover any and all training/educational costs. Smaller ships will use smaller crews, thus requiring smaller segments of the population to convert. Capital ships will require massive crews, and take up more population (and time and isk) to train. Civilian PI Structures: Civilian Command Center (Same attributes as ICC) Links (no new attributes) Housing complex (700/850/1000 power, 900/1050/1200 cpu, 5000/7500/10000 employees) Housing for the cityGÇÖs population. These complexes create a steady stream of isk income per day per building, similar to PI products per hour if sold, by providing the housing the population needs. The bigger a population can be supported/housed/employed in a city, the more isk is generated. Can be built in small, medium and large variants with varying fitting requirements for each. Banks (700 power, 900 CPU, 800 Employees) Replaces launch pad with NPC institution building, sends isk to player wallet, NPC bank takes a cut/NPC bank tax rate. No bank, no isk/tax. Banks types can be built from each race from the list of existing NPC banks or financial institutions. Each NPC bank should have its own unique rates and bonuses that effect population growth rate, employment or resilience via banking policies that favour entrepreneurial ventures, settlement, loans or military funding, which can be assigned to whatever races such policies would be most applicable to. Note, the tax rate can only be set to values between 1 and 100. 1 denotes 1 isk per settler per day, 100 = 100 isk per settler per day. Basic Service hubs* (1200 power, 1000 CPU, 1000 employees) (Power, Food, Water) Service hubs works similar to upcoming extractor hubs, which drills are connected to. The hub is a central building with an operational range which can spawn Power, Food production or water distribution facilities for housing complexes. The service hub power factor is different from the Command Centre power (CC power & CPU determines how many buildings can be built. The hubs power determines if the building is active or inactive) If each building does not have power provided by links, there can be no appliances, electricity etc, thus will not perform any function, generate isk or grant any bonuses to the owner of the CC or the rest of the city. If the basic hub substructures are not connected to the various housing complexes, then the services/benefits do not reach the citizens, in much the same way as PI commodities and raw ore cannot be transported between extractors and processors. note, the absence of Basic service hubs on any city will result in a constant loss of quality of life and result in the loss of tax revenue for that network/city. Advanced Service hubs* (2400 power, 2000 CPU, 1500 employees) (Markets, Medical, sanitation, Fire brigade, Policing, communications) Similar to Basic Service hubs, these hubs create more attractive living areas for civilians by providing vital services. Without these areas, citizens will grow weary of the planet owner and seek independence/revolt. So you must keep the civilian population happy. Prevents spamming of housing complexes and adds depth to Civilian Planetary setups. If the advanced hub substructures are not connected to the various housing complexes, then the services/benefits do not reach the citizens, in much the same way as PI commodities and raw ore cannot be transported between extractors and processors. *Note, the presence of advanced hubs and services such as fire departments, policing, medical etc, will reduce the handicaps that result in the population decreasing in the event of a planetary siege.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote [Part 5 of 14] Advanced Service hubs continued: Entertainment hubs (Gallente) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees) Religous hubs (Amarr) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees) Market/Stock Exchange hubs (Caldari) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees) Cultural hubs (Minmatar) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees) These buildings cater for the special needs of each race and thus increases the quality of life. Having these buildings increases the attractiveness of each planet to the various races and thus increases the steady population growth rate. The higher the population & the happier they are, the higher the modifier effecting receivable tax for the entire city (All connected PI networks) as reflected in the development index of the city/planet. Each hub, will add an extra 1% to the cityGÇÖs population growth rate per downtime. Academies (700 power, 900 CPU, 800 Employees) Buildings that spawn ship crews via schematics, similar to production facilities in conventional Industrial PI, which can then be exported and sold on markets, or retained for personal use. Academies convert the planetGÇÖs population into ship crews at a cost, similar to military structures converting the population into soldiers, but that crew subtracts from the planetGÇÖs population, so new crews cannot be generated unless the previous crews are destroyed, sold or lost/stolen in the event that the planet does not have the population to create a new crew. Thus allowing each Civilian network segment to only produce a limited number of crews at any given time in accordance with the cityGÇÖs population, which must be increased before new crews can be generated or replaced. There is no theoretical limit to the amount of ship crews which can be created, provided the City/Planet has the population to support them. Academies also convert the city population into commodities such as janitors, dancers, scientists etc. Corporate Hanger (See Industrial PI structures for details) 1.2 Military Command Centres (MCC) PI will be made vulnerable to not only Dust attacks, but Capital Bombardments from orbit in the form of Dreadnoughts and Titans. Unless all planetary networks are covered with shields and have planetary gun/missile emplacements on site to defend the networks from attacks, using POS defense mechanics, they can be wiped out in the same amount of time it would take to destroy system infrastructure that is offline or just existing rf mode and result in killmails and economic impact. Planetary shields will work much like a POS shield and even run off Stront that can be stored within the shield generator, a place-able structure with a operational range and a small storage capacity for enough stront to last 18-24 hours. Every building that is within this shield generatorGÇÖs operational range, will be protected by the planetary shield(s). Everything outside, will be vulnerable to attack. Unlike the POS mechanism however, planetary weapon platforms can be placed inside the shields and fire on orbiting/aggression/low standing targets. Military PI structures in contrast to Industrial & Civilian PI networks and structures, create employment, but do not create isk. In fact, Planetary shields and gun emplacements cost the owner isk & fuel in order to stay operational per day (Which can be automatically subtracted from a chosen wallet/wallet division), similar to customs costs incurred when extracting or importing PI Commodities from planets. Military networks can however, manufacture military units at a cost, i.e militia, light infantry, soldiers etc which will become AI controlled entities on Dust maps while at the same time making the planet harder to conquer by increasing resilience through defensive structures such as shields and planetary guns. Militia and soldiers etc can be sold on the eve markets as they are now. These AI controlled military units will be the Dust side Rats.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:23:00 - [6] - Quote [Part 6 of 14] Military PI Structures: Military Command Center (Same attributes as ICC/CCC) Links Bunkers/Forts (700 power, 850 CPU, 1000 employees, 500 isk per hour operational cost) Deploys # of NPC AIGÇÖs & related equipment on Dust maps/like AI controlled players in BF2142/ Eve NPC Rats to help defend planets/cities from attacking Dust players. Each with a bounty. More upgraded/difficult the NPC/AI, the higher the bounty. Will enable Dust side players to get into instant action by themselves or with 2 or 3 friends, if they do not have the #s to take the city/planet, they can at least rat until they run out of time, get bored, join a larger group. Enables Dust players to grind isk similar to mission runners/ratters and would open up new avenues of upgrading instead of buying. Do not create a system where the subscription from Dust players will be lost, can be achieved by really low/ nonexistent bounties on AIGÇÖs, i.e 1isk, 2 isk etc. Planetary shield generator (2500 power, 1250 CPU, 1000 Employees, 2000 isk per hour operational cost + fuel costs) (protects city from orbital bombardments from Dreads, 18-24 hour reinforcement timer, similar to POS shields, could even be designed to use Stront like the existing POS shields do). However, consistent damage to the planetary shield will result in a decrease of the planetary population every hour as the population flees for their lives. Planetary gun/missile emplacement (2500 power, 1250 CPU, 1000 Employees, 2000 isk per hour operational cost + ammo costs) (Places guns/missiles on planet surface in City that can fire from under City shield or without shield, similar to the stargate/POS gun setup) Damages non friendly (can be set via standings) capital ships only in orbit around the planet, firing on neutral Capitals by default (That have Planetary aggression timers) at similar rates to the stargate/station guns, but should pack a bit more punch since they are firing on capital ships, so the damage should be so much that a single dread without logistics will be unable to tank the DPS and will have to warp out or risk being lost to planetary fire. Sub capital ships will not be shot at by planet side guns, since they will be too small to lock onto. Likewise, sub capitals and carriers will not be able to engage structures or segments. Any Carrier that is remote repping Dreadnoughts or Titans with PATs will also receive a planetary aggression timer. Planetary entrenchment systems (Walls, gates, trenches, armories, vehicle factories) Recruitment offices/Barracks (700 power, 800 CPU, 500 employees, 500 isk per hour operational cost + training costs) (employs civilians as NPC soldiers/militia GÇô schematics, creates militia, soldiers, mercs etc by converting the unemployed segments of the population in a city which can be deployed/routed to/at/via a Bunker/Fort) Similar to Ship crews creation mechanism. Each unit costs a small amount of isk to generate. Star ports (550 power, 800 CPU, 700 employees, 1000 isk per hour operational cost + custom costs) Star ports could be entry/exit points for social areas of Cities/Planets, where Eve players could land their ships in something similar to offline mode. Land the ship, get out of it, go through planetary customs and go exploring around the city/social areas provided. If you want to leave, get back into your ship, take off and head back to space. All ships present on the surface will be visible in the star port, but only ship owners or authorized personnel can board the respective ships. Players will not be prevented from boarding ships they do not own, but if you are not authorized, youGÇÖll be flagged with a criminal timer and can be fired upon without mercy or concord intervention. Corporate Hanger (See Industrial PI structures for details)
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:25:00 - [7] - Quote [Part 7 of 14] 2.0 Planetary overhaul Each planet type in eve will have its own unique growth/death rate modifier(s), depending on the type and desirability/suitableness to human life or industrial value of each. Here is a preliminary overview of my proposed rates per type: Planetary Death/Growth rate modifier revision(s) -> without bonuses (from PI-hubs or installations), taxes or other influencing quality of life factors, as divided into 3 zones of civilian suitability: 1)Positive growth rate type planets (More suitable for civilian populations): Temperate: (+13% default rate) 16% population growth rate per downtime 3% death rate per down time Oceanic: (+8% default rate) 14% population growth rate per downtime 6% death rate per down time Gas: (+3% default rate) 12% population growth rate per downtime 9% death rate per down time 2)Fringe growth rate type planets (Borderline cases for civilian populations): Ice: (0% default rate) 10% population growth rate per downtime 10% death rate per down time Barren: (0% default rate) 10% population growth rate per downtime 10% death rate per down time 3)Negative growth rate planets (Less suitable for civilian populations): Storm: (-3% default rate) 9% population growth rate per downtime 12% death rate per down time Lava: (-8% default rate) 6% population growth rate per downtime 14% death rate per down time Plasma: (-13% default rate) 3% population growth rate per downtime 16% death rate per down time The implications of these growth/death rates for civilian PI, Industrial PI, individual PI and cities. 1)Civilian PI will predominantly be focused on the more suitable planet types. Having a growth rate that exceeds the death rate implies the population will grow faster than it dies off, providing much larger tax bases to exploit for isk generation and easier grinding of the civilian development index. Subsequently, the majority of PI pvp will be centred on these planet types if PI cities ever become economical targets for large invasion fleets. This means that Temperate, Oceanic and Gas planets will be favoured or GÇ£primariedGÇ¥ in the future and thus attract allot of attention. This does not mean that civilian PI on less suitable planets will be impossible, just very difficult to pull off. 2)Individual PI network effectiveness & efficiency will be determined to a great extent, by the planet type chosen for individual civilian based PI. Single players will be able to setup civilian networks on less suitable planet types and with optimized setups, achieve growth rates of no more than 3% or 4% per downtime. This means that the rate of growth for civilian indexes will be significantly slower on less suitable civilian planets (but will result in these planets being ideal for industrial networks). The favour for industrial networks will also be nerfed to prevent Plasma based cities becoming robotics farms that can spit out a regionGÇÖs worth of robotics in a few days (assuming the city has 1 consumer electronics, 1 mech parts and 1 factory network within the city limits), by preventing near instant civilian growth and thus increase the amount of time needed to achieve higher level economies and install PI-Hub upgrades that would result in increased production. 3)PI Cities will thus either be Civilian or industrially orientated (for the most part), seeing as planet types will have no effect on Military networks. Protection for cities will be required either way, in addition to serving as a much needed isk sink in light of the earning potential that multiple cities will grant corporations and larger alliances. Cities can thus consist of a combination of Civilian networks & Military networks (on more civilian orientated worlds), Industrial & military networks (on more industrially orientated worlds) or all 3 network types for maximum wealth generation, resource exploitation and protection. The makeup of these cities will ultimately fall down to individual/corporation or alliance preference.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:26:00 - [8] - Quote [Part 8 of 14] 3.0 PI Cities Due to the limitations of the PI CCGÇÖs mechanism (CPU + power), massive cities cannot be built with PI by single players. Why not enable a number of PI networks (owned by different players or different alt characters owned by the same player) to be combined into a GÇ£cityGÇ¥ as an entity similar to an alliance, which consists of a number of Corporations/CCs which can be selected by the City manager/Alliance executor/CEO. All the segments/networks/Command Centres which form part of the GÇ£cityGÇ¥ will share benefits with the other segments. This will not enable the City Manager control over other CCs which a player does not own if those CCGÇÖs are a part of the city (Just as being a part of the alliance does not grant the alliance leader direct control over his member corps). The size of Cities in terms of the number of networks per city should be limited to the maximum size of an Alliance, if this is convenient for CCP. Cities can be named by the City Manager, similar to corporation/character/alliance/Outpost names. No 2 cities can have the exact same name and all cities will be listed as an owned asset by the respective corporation/alliance, similar to offices, systems and stations. If a group of players could form a GÇ£CityGÇ¥ the way they can form corporations and alliances that could be tied to a new GÇ£City management skillGÇ¥, with info tabs and rankings similar to alliances, attributes, and a management screen that would allow them to each manage their own segments individually, while seeing the combined effect of all of them working together and all of this being achieved using the existing PI mechanisms, then this would be really cool. Cities will be the foci of populations and production capacity on the planets and could substitute POS/outpost based production/ research/manufacturing capacity for poorer alliances/corporations who cannot sustain such infrastructure financially. Likewise, larger alliances could claim all the planets they could maintain to supplement or replace the costs of existing manufacturing and research infrastructure. While single players with a single command centre can still build a civilian segment by him/herself, it will not have allot of employment to sustain a very large population, or a proper tax base (Tax payable to civilian CC segment ownerGÇÖs wallets by default, but could be set to pay into the City wallet) as compared to a group of players attempting to do the same thing by working together. There will need to be no major graphics overhauls for the existing PI systems and no RTS element in terms of spamming units and attacking other cities for Eve players. This paves the way for the introduction of larger environments that could be converted into urban combat sites for Dust, or social areas for both Eve and Dust players. Planetary Cities can be created the same way sovereignty is captured in space and upgraded, using a Planetary Infrastructure GÇô Hub (PIHub) to setup and upgrade a city on the surface. This unique sovereignty system will only be applicable to PI structures/networks and not the planet or its surface. A PI-Hub is in effect an upgradable structure, place-able on a planet like any Command Centre would be (And would also thus be limited to 1 PI-hub per planet per player/corporation, but multiple PI-hubs per planet per alliance) that could be upgraded with a number of available modules designed to grant specific and longed for bonuses to PI operations for all member networks of that specific city. This also implies the introduction of a City Development Index, similar to existing Sovereignty index levels. Capital Cities If a corporation/alliance owns more than 1 city on a planet, they can upgrade any 1 city to a Capital city. Capital cities will have upgradable social areas and allow corporations to GÇ£ownGÇ¥ agents and generate commission/revenue from all missions run from those agents. Capital Cities can produce capital ships on the surface, provide 25% extra bonuses to all city upgrades and are invulnerable to capture unless all non capital cities have been captured or wiped off the map.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:26:00 - [9] - Quote have not fully read yet but i like the idea of PI meaing something... and i like sim city sorry to cut your post in half
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:28:00 - [10] - Quote [Part 9 of 14] 3.1 City Development Index & PI-Hub upgrades Each CityGÇÖs PI-Hub will have 12 slots (3 for Industrial, 3 for military, 3 for Civilian and 3 for Economy) into which level based upgrades can be installed, in addition to being able to grind its development index along the following lines: 1) Industrial 2) Civilian 3) Military 4) Economical (overall level) 1) Industrial development This pertains to the level of production/manufacturing/research of existing PI commodities or items within the city limits (the industrial PI networks in the city). The more Industrial networks are producing commodities/manufacturing ship items or researching and the more employment opportunities the city has (measured with installations, each installation will receive an GÇ£employment capacityGÇ¥ attribute) as a result, the greater the level of Industrial development in addition to the rate at which development is obtained. An initial idea for the Industrial level requirements could be: Level 1 will require 2205 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (3375) Level 2 will require 4410 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (6750) Level 3 will require 8820 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (12,500) Level 4 will require 17640 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (25000) Level 5 will require 35280 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (50000) Each level of development unlocks a new selection of industrial based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These industrial PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to: i. (Level 1 upgrade) Production Bonus -> All facilities produce 25% more commodities per cycle ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Storage Bonus -> All storage buildings receive a 25% bonus to capacity iii.(Level 3 upgrade) Drill power reduction -> All ECUGÇÖs require 25% less powergrid iv. (Level 3 upgrade) Powergrid bonus -> All networks receive 25% more powergrid v. (Level 5 upgrade) Resource Regen Bonus -> Planetary resources regenerate 25% faster (no stack) vi. (Level 5 upgrade) Link power reduction -> All City links use 25% less powergrid 2) Civilian development This pertains to the total population of the city in addition to the number of civilian networks and services delivered to the populous. The greater the population level and the more services (greater areas of delivery) are being delivered to the available population of each civilian network, the faster and higher the civilian development index will be. The greater the amount of services delivered, the more this modifier will reduce the death rate, as the quality of life increases. The greater the quality of life within a network/city, the less of an impact high taxes will have on that segments/cityGÇÖs growth rates. High taxes stifle growth, where as low taxes nurtures it. For further reference, please Google Imperium Galactica 2GÇÖs City/planetary mechanisms. An initial idea for the Civilian level requirements could be: Level 1 will require a 50,000 strong population Level 2 will require a 100,000 strong population Level 3 will require a 200,000 strong population Level 4 will require a 400,000 strong population Level 5 will require an 800,000 strong population Each level of development unlocks a new selection of civilian based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These civilian PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to: i. (Level 1 upgrade) Fuel Economy -> Civilian networks use 25% less fuel per hour ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Graduate programs -> All academies train crews/commodities 25% faster iii.(Level 5 upgrade) Amarr Government -> 25% bonus to city population capacity/employment iv. (Level 5 upgrade) Caldari Government -> 25% bonus to receivable city tax per dt v. (Level 5 upgrade) Gallente Government -> 25% bonus to range of city service hubs vi. (Level 5 upgrade) Minmatar Government -> 25% bonus to city population growth per dt *Note, only 1 government can be installed per PI-Hub

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:29:00 - [11] - Quote [Part 10 of 14] 3) Military development This relates to the number of military networks in the city and the level of defenses and resilience any city would have to Eve-side bombardments from orbit. The more defensive structures and networks are present and the greater the military operational cost of the city is, the faster and higher the military development index will be. An initial idea for the Military level requirements could be: Level 1 will require 1 military network present Level 2 will require 2 military networks present Level 3 will require 3 military networks present Level 4 will require 4 military networks present Level 5 will require 5 military networks present Each level of development unlocks a new selection of military based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These Military PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to: i. (Level 1 upgrade) Planetary Invul Shielding -> +25% bonus to planetary shield resistances ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Military Budget -> -25% to operational costs of all military buildings iii.(Level 3 upgrade) Planetary Fuel reserves -> +25% bonus to PShield fuel storage capacity iv. (Level 3 upgrade) Training programs -> +25% bonus to training speed of military commodities v. (Level 5 upgrade) PShield Field Extender -> +25% bonus to Planetary Shield hitpoints vi. (Level 5 upgrade) Defensive Overloading -> +25% bonus to damage of Planetary Defenses 4) Economic Development This pertains to the overall development level of a city as measured against the first 3 indexes. To obtain a level 1 economy, level 1 in Military, Industrial and Civilian indexes must be achieved. Lower level economies will provide a larger amount of bonuses and wealth to the controlling players/corporations/alliances as compared to Cities with no economies or individual networks. High level economies will provide maximum wealth generation for the owners and may even force alliances to revise strategic targets during 0.0 and alliance warfare to include cities, hopefully moving a % of the attention away from existing POSes, Outposts or other structures/infrastructure of interest in capturing or laying waste to systems. An initial idea for the Economic level requirements could be: Level 1 will require mil1 + civ1 + indy1 Level 2 will require mil2 + civ2 + indy2 Level 3 will require mil3 + civ3 + indy3 Level 4 will require mil4 + civ4 + indy4 Level 5 will require mil5 + civ5 + indy5 Each level of development unlocks a new selection of economic based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These Economy PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to: i. (Level 1 upgrade) Service Economy Upgrade -> -25% material requirements for production ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Planetary supplychain management -> -25% bonus to fuel and operational costs iii.(Level 3 upgrade) Tax Reform -> +25% bonus to city receivable tax iv. (Level 3 upgrade) Infrastructure upgrades -> +25% bonus to link capacity v. (Level 5 upgrade) Resource conservation -> +25% bonus to resource regeneration
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:31:00 - [12] - Quote [Part 11 of 14] 3.2 Connecting individual PI networks to Cities (PI-Hubs) To facilitate Cities, an alliance mechanism needs to be introduced for PI CCs. Once a PI-Hub is placed on any planet with other CCs placed by other characters present on the surface, you will be able to select your CC and be presented with a GÇ£Join city/Leave city/Create city OptionGÇ¥ using a mechanism similar to joining corporations. Selecting this option will present the CC owner with a list of all the current PI-Hubs on the planet in addition to a list of Cities that those Pi-Hubs belong to. Joining a city or creating a city will automatically link the selected CCs/networks to the appropriate PI-hub with a link that is automatically created by the PI-hub, thereby facilitating a single network consisting of two or more separate segments, controlled only by their respective owners but granting each otherGÇÖs segments bonuses and interacting with one another on some levels. A new skill should be introduced, something along the lines of GÇ£City ManagementGÇ¥, which could fall under the current PI skills. Each level of this skill will enable a player to create and manage 1 city/PI-hub, per planet per level, with a maximum of 6 cities/hubs at level 5 (Similar to the Interplanetary consolidation skill). Note that any player can opt to join any city, but the city executor will be notified of your application to the city and has right of admission. This means they can either accept your application or reject it similar to corporation applications. City Executors can remove any of the city segments/networks at any time. 3.3 Conquering Planets/Destroying Cities* To conquer a planet, all cities/networks must be seized or destroyed individually. City networks located in 0.0 that are conquerable/compatible with dust, can only be captured or lost under one of 4 conditions. 1)Dust players capture the planet using the dust mechanisms (No Eve/Capsuleer involvement) 2)Eve side orbital bombardments destroy the PI-Hub(s) with dreads or Titans (Results in loss of city, networks removed from appropriate Eve ownerGÇÖs planet list(s). If the cityGÇÖs PI-hub is destroyed, the city is destroyed). Eve dread Pilots can warp to a planet with PI networks on it. Similar to the GÇ£view in planet modeGÇ¥ option a capsuleer can choose if he right clicks on the planet, players will be given an option to enter GÇ£planetary orbitGÇ¥. This is a holding area, where ships can still fly around and engage each other. Dread pilots will be able to enter siege mode (or attack without it) and begin laying waste to PI networks in the city. Capital pilots can opt to destroy the installations network by network, or destroy the PI-Hub. note that no PI structures can be attacked unless the dreads are in orbit and cannot be attacked by any other ship classes besides Dreads and Titans. Warping to 0km of a planet or the customs office will not enable you to target or engage networks. Any dreads in orbit around a planet that receives a planetary aggression timer (PAT) will be fair game for any planetary based defences. Timers only die down after 14 minutes once the ship leaves orbit. Carriers, super carriers and logistic ships along with any support fleets will be allowed in orbit to assist the Dread/Titan fleets. Any Carriers that remote rep any Dreads with a Planetary Aggression timer will also receive a planetary aggression timer and take fire from the planetary defences if they become the primary target. *If a Dreadnaught is in orbit, Dust players will be able to highlight desired bombardment areas on the surface, be they buildings or the areas between buildings, which the dreads can then lock onto like a cyno field and send in artillery strikes to take out any opposing Dust players in real time.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:33:00 - [13] - Quote [Part 12 of 14] 3)Eve side dread bombardments reduces the cityGÇÖs population to 0 (Results in loss of control of network, does not transfer ownership to attackers, City remains intact on planet surface, can only be re-captured by Dust players) Having capital ships in orbit attacking planetary installations will result in a reduction of the population every hour in the event of a planetary shield. The rate at which a population diminishes should be determined by the number of capitals, the duration of attack, the resilience of the city (measured in terms of its development indexes, higher levels lose less population while lower levels lose more faster) and the planet type. For level 5 economies, each Dreadnought attacking planetary structures will result in a 3% population reduction per hour. Level 0 Economies should incur a 8% penalty. Any Dreads attacking a planetary structure will receive a new planetary aggression timer, during which any planetary gun emplacements will open fire on orbiting dreads. These handicaps stack, so the presence of 10 dreads attacking the level 5 economy on the planet surface results in a 30% pop reduction per hour handicap for the applicable city. If no shield is present or the shield fuel is not restocked in the event of a prolonged siege, the structures will take direct damage and can be wiped out before the population is depleted. note that no PI structures can be attacked unless the dreads are in orbit. Warping to 0km of a planet or the customs office will not enable you to target or engage networks. Any dreads in orbit around a planet that receives a planetary aggression timer will be fair game for any planetary based defenses. Timers only die down once the ship leaves orbit. Carriers and logistic ships along with any support fleets will be allowed in orbit to assist the dread fleets. Any Carriers that remote rep any Dreads with a Planetary Aggression timer will also receive a planetary aggression timer and take fire from the planetary defenses. Note, that only capital ships are subject to PATs (Planetary Aggression Timers). Sub-capital vessels are too small to be locked onto and fired upon by planetside defences. This also implies sub capital ships cannot agress PI. 4) Incursions in the solar system last longer than 48 hours without getting addressed by the player base and invade the Cities. Incursions will require 48 hours after the siege/invasion begins to claim a city or cities on the planets in that system for the Sansha's Nation or any other faction that will have incursions in the future. 4.0 Terraforming* Description: (0.0 based) planetary type transformations (akin to scope and costs of building super capitals) . Based on principle of destruction = easier than creation. Easier to ruin suitable worlds into industrial PI worlds, then to create habitable worlds for easy civilian isk. Terraforming a world destroys all planetary networks/cities on the surface. Why have Terraforming?: Creates valuable planets out of not so valuable ones and allow alliances to customize solar systems (think branch, industrial systems with industrial planets) GÇô incorporates misc items from the item database in an attempt to create demand for misc items and PI related items that are otherwise useless. Terraforming chains: (what planets can be changed into + skills needed for reaction): Lava <-> Plasmas <-> Storms (Climatology 5 + Terraforming 1) Gas <-> Storms <-> Plasmas (Climatology 5 + Terraforming 1) Temperate <-> Barrens <-> Ice (Climatology 1 + Terraforming 1) Barrens <-> Lavas <-> Plasmas (Climatology 5 + Terraforming 1) Oceanic <-> Temperate <-> Barrens (Climatology 2 + Terraforming 1) Oceanic <-> Ice <-> Barrens (Climatology 2 + Terraforming 1) Gas <-> Oceanic <-> Ice (Climatology 3 + Terraforming 1) Storms <-> Gas <-> Oceanic (Climatology 4 + Terraforming 1)
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:36:00 - [14] - Quote [Part 13 of 14] 5.0City Location Penalties (Isk and faction warfare penalties/ drawbacks) 5.1 Hi-sec Cities Hi-sec cities will not be vulnerable to capital ships bombardments, since capitals are not allowed in empire space. To this end, hi-sec cities will be nerfed severely with an GÇ£Empire taxGÇ¥. The Empires will demand 15% of the financial turnover of the CityGÇÖs economy per down time, per level of the cityGÇÖs economy. This means that lvl 5 economy cities in hi-sec space will lose out on 75% of their isk value per downtime in the biggest isk sink in Eve, ever. This will force PI carebears into lowsec and nullsec space. Hi-sec cities will still operate on the occupancy FW (Faction Warfare) mechanic, the City automaticly enters the FW deccing system as a valid war target and the faction it swears allegiance to is determined by the sovereignty holder. I.E. If a corporation sets up the City in Amarr hi-sec, it will become a war target for Minmatar and Gallente FW corps/Alliances. Note, all the empire tax that cities are subjected to gets paid up equally amongst all the faction warefare corps, or rather a percentage is given to the participating FW corps as payment for service above and beyond. This will form the foundations of Empire economies and give FW something new to fight over. Planetary wealth. The more Cities a Faction controls, the more isk they get per month. If a city is lost to an enemy faction, that faction starts getting their cut of the tax per downtime/ per month. 5.2 Low-sec Cities* Similar to Hi-sec cities, low-sec cities will be taxed by the NPC faction that owns the sovereignty of the system the city is located in, but the tax will be reduced to 7,5 % per level, per downtime. If the City is located in FW space, the tax is reduced to 5% per level per downtime, but the city also gets drawn into the FW mechanic and becomes a war target. Capitals can attack these cities since its in the ghetto now. Note, all the empire tax that cities are subjected to gets paid up equally amongst all the faction warefare corps, or rather a percentage is given to the participating FW corps as payment for service above and beyond. This will form the foundations of Empire economies and give FW something new to fight over. Planetary wealth. The more Cities a Faction controls, the more isk they get per month. If a city is lost to an enemy faction, that faction starts getting their cut of the tax per downtime/ per month. 5.3 Null-sec Cities* Unlike hi-sec or low-sec systems, cities located in 0.0 space will have an adjustable tax system. The corporation/alliance that owns the sovereignty can determine how much they want to tax their cities, and this system will be identical to the corporation tax mechanic, which can be adjusted by the appropriate CEO or directors. 0.0 Cities do not get pulled into the faction warfare mechanic. NPC 0.0 cities will be taxed at a constant 5% per level per downtime. 5.4 Wormhole Cities Wormhole cities work exactly the same as 0.0 cities.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.08 19:39:00 - [15] - Quote [Part 14 of 14] 6.0Skills for P.I 2.0 Interplanetary supply chain management [3] (Allows the remote launching of planetary goods to customs offices - +1 ly range per level) Advanced Interplanetary Consolidation [8] (+ 1 additional planet per level - requires inter planetary consolidation V) City Management [8] (Allows the control of 1 Planetary infrastructure hub/City per level GÇô Requires Empire Control V) Meteorology [5] (Basic understanding of weather patterns, 5% bonus to terraforming speed per level GÇô requires advanced planetology V + Science V) Climatology [10] (Basic understanding of planetary climate, allows unique reactions per level GÇô requires meteorology IV) Terraforming [12] (Basic understanding of planetary terraforming, -5% material requirements for terraforming per level GÇô requires Climatology V) Fin ~ I will take donations in the form of capitals, isk and full frontal nudity.
Jarome Ambraelle Industrial and Mining Enterprises Inc. 1	Posted - 2011.09.08 21:54:00 - [16] - Quote And CCP hasn't added you to the design team because....
NIJofleyUK Roflcopter m8. STR8NGE BREW 0	Posted - 2011.09.09 10:26:00 - [17] - Quote As usual Asuka mate, you have come up with a totally new gameplay idea that just... "Makes Sense", make PI a minigame in itself. I like the idea of MORE targets to shoot at, also make Dreads more of a usefull ship. CCP really need to look into this technology for PI as it's something that makes PI more "Meaningfull". Manufacturing shoulnd't be the only product from PI.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 410	Posted - 2011.09.09 17:06:00 - [18] - Quote Jarome Ambraelle wrote: And CCP hasn't added you to the design team because.... Because I'm still waiting for them to make me an offer I can't refuse. In all seriousness, I'm totally down to become a part time/assistant Dev. If any member of CCP's HR staff is reading this topic, call me/evemail me. Also, saw your reply in the other topic Jarome. If you have some ideas about PI or w/e, eve mail me.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 50	Posted - 2011.09.12 04:07:00 - [19] - Quote Where's the EVE-Dust link? Ultimately there has to be something for Capsuleers to hire DUST or NPC mercs to do. Part of running PI will be managing mercenary attacks/defenses. This must be incorporated into the ideas presented here. You mention "downtime" a scary number of times in this article. The developers are desperately trying to remove all dependence on downtime, with the aim of having EVE running 24x7. Don't require any dependence on downtime, describe "at downtime" things in terms of a discrete event happening a number of hours from certain conditions being met, or steady progress at a particular rate. PI must include DUST by design, not by bolt-on after the fact.
Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2011.09.12 06:13:00 - [20] - Quote i said a long time ago that PI should turn into a new game branched off from eve that is like sim city 3000 or something cities would be expensive and be built over time like skill points are earned now. the purpose of dust is to take a city over rather then kill it and start over.

Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.09.12 06:44:00 - [21] - Quote Dude, I'm only 1 post in and find this amazing. More comments to come, if there is anything I could POSSIBLY add, lol. Edit: BRILLIANT. You are the man, and this NEEDS to be implemented. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 133	Posted - 2011.09.12 12:01:00 - [22] - Quote Add in slave farms and you have my vote. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Xearal SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance 25	Posted - 2011.09.12 12:38:00 - [23] - Quote Add in slave pens, and I will personally get an X-box to conduct raids on amarran held planets to blow up said compounds and free those slaves, then get my dread out and nuke the place from orbit... Just to be Sure. Seriously though.. awesome design idea.. masssive ideas.. it's what I actually thought that PI would be like, or at least more closer to that than what we have now. I want to raise cities, build a planetary empire, kick other people off MY planet.. stuff like that. And I want to build my own private Risa ;)
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 133	Posted - 2011.09.12 12:43:00 - [24] - Quote Xearal wrote: Add in slave pens, and I will personally get an X-box to conduct raids on amarran held planets to blow up said compounds and free those slaves, then get my dread out and nuke the place from orbit... Just to be Sure. Seriously though.. awesome design idea.. masssive ideas.. it's what I actually thought that PI would be like, or at least more closer to that than what we have now. I want to raise cities, build a planetary empire, kick other people off MY planet.. stuff like that. And I want to build my own private Risa ;) And I mylady, will be protecting my property - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 478	Posted - 2011.09.13 04:41:00 - [25] - Quote It's starting to look like this topic needs to move into the assembly hall, judging from the copious amounts of likes its getting.
Xandralkus Morior Invictus. Velocitas Eradico 1	Posted - 2011.09.13 09:25:00 - [26] - Quote ...You were not kidding. Mega-threadnaught! Just from the TL:DR, I like it. Eve has always been about complexity - and honestly, CCP needs to do a complete revamp of PI, in order to actually make it worthwhile. Otherwise, when Dust 514 launches, nobody will care that their planet is under attack, because incursions and lvl 4 missions offer many, many times the potential ISK output. Right now, if my lowsec PI were under attack, I wouldn't care. Ten minutes in an incursion fleet makes more ISK than my PI does in five days.
Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2011.09.16 04:28:00 - [27] - Quote Xearal wrote: Add in slave pens, and I will personally get an PS3 to conduct raids on amarran held planets to blow up said compounds and free those slaves, then get my dread out and nuke the place from orbit... Just to be Sure. Corrected that for you. (Dust is PS3 exclusive... for the foreseeable future, sry man) Asuka Solo wrote: It's starting to look like this topic needs to move into the assembly hall, judging from the copious amounts of likes its getting. I agree. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting
Spartis Reave Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective 1	Posted - 2011.09.16 09:59:00 - [28] - Quote This is honestly the best thing I've ever read on the forums
DrFizzyGood MakeFeelNice Defenders of Sovereignty Sovereign Navy 0	Posted - 2011.09.18 06:50:00 - [29] - Quote Bump for great justice
Zloco Crendraven The Fraternal Association of Killer Squibs 3	Posted - 2011.09.18 09:50:00 - [30] - Quote Well it is amazing. Really good work and i would love to see it get live. But, but...EVE online is about spaceships. As long as CCP is putting their main focus on ships, tweaking them, adding more content for flying in space i do not mind that in spare time they develop your project.

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 478	Posted - 2011.10.04 20:36:00 - [31] - Quote If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 4	Posted - 2011.10.04 21:27:00 - [32] - Quote I absolutely LOVE your concepts, though there is one small thing I'd like to point out: civilian, industry, and military operations go hand in hand in hand with each other. Without one, the others will fall apart or never grow very much. If anything, one can implement this as a synergy bonus, to further encourage people to do things that would otherwise not be done. (like dropping a civilian command center on a plasma planet). Using the example, if several people can get together and help one guy get his civilian PI going, the others will have their military and industry PI doing all the better, and the civilian guy reaps the fruit of his labors and serious respect. Just some thoughts. [EDIT] For an idea as massive as this, I'd gladly help out however I can! oh, and along with slave pens (Amarr), get Brothels (Galente) and Casinos (Caldari) Then figure something out for the minmatarr Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 495	Posted - 2011.10.05 04:39:00 - [33] - Quote tankus2 wrote: I absolutely LOVE your concepts, though there is one small thing I'd like to point out: civilian, industry, and military operations go hand in hand in hand with each other. Without one, the others will fall apart or never grow very much. If anything, one can implement this as a synergy bonus, to further encourage people to do things that would otherwise not be done. (like dropping a civilian command center on a plasma planet). Using the example, if several people can get together and help one guy get his civilian PI going, the others will have their military and industry PI doing all the better, and the civilian guy reaps the fruit of his labors and serious respect. Just some thoughts. Yup, I was of such a mind when I posted this. Synergy is at the core of this idea, but as suggested with the planetary overhaul and it's impact on the various PI types, those deathbearing worlds will be an uphill battle for civilian PI, but be a goldmine if it could be pulled off. tankus2 wrote: I For an idea as massive as this, I'd gladly help out however I can! oh, and along with slave pens (Amarr), get Brothels (Galente) and Casinos (Caldari) Then figure something out for the minmatarr Gallente brothels is just win! Especially if Incarna will allow me to walk around in them and use my female alts for said service. I endorse that proposal fully..
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 4	Posted - 2011.10.05 21:11:00 - [34] - Quote Asuka Solo, from the 'Advanced PI' thread wrote: The skills your after... I included as upgrades in my suggestion. And PI was more profitable when you had to reset each individual extractor. Less people willing to put up with 3 hours of clicking. Now we all just spam 20 accounts each and reset them all in the same amount of time, flooding the market in cheap stuff. We can make PI even easier... but in order to offset the flooding... we need to create more demand for PI goods at the same time or risk reducing PI goods to the value of veldspar. God forbid. Perhaps a way to ensure PI prices don't drop like a stone would be to have PI require PI things. For example, you need food, water, and air for your basic service hubs on a civilian CC, right? so why not have people keep their basic service hubs stocked with such things (especially on planets that have nothing naturally, like plasma!) With that, another very large consumer or PI will come about along with the ability to produce a lot more with PI, balancing it all out. [edit]: to make things less confusing, this quote came from this thread Where the science gets done
NIJofleyUK Roflcopter m8. STR8NGE BREW 1	Posted - 2011.10.06 11:57:00 - [35] - Quote Friendly Bump for awesome sauce!
Susiqueta Muir Disturbed Blood Astrometrics 6	Posted - 2011.10.06 12:03:00 - [36] - Quote GRR, just had to re-type all this...... My thought is that each planet should have one single central trade hub that controls import/export to orbit (and related taxes) plus trade planetside between players and corps. If players want to move items off world then they need to move items through this hub, paying any taxes which are set in place by the owning Corp. Hubs can be owned by podder corps or Dustie merc units. Podders can hire NPC merc resources (weekly fee, more isk=better troops) to claim ownership over the hub. This will allow the ownership of the hub to change hands, but also populate the planet with AI troops for Dusties to fight against. If there are no Dusties then Eve pilots will have a mechanism for cliaming control. their troops could also gain benefits for control if the eve corp can get a Cap-ship in orbit and use it to bombard enemy positions. Players could then move PI commodities to this central store and use it to set-up large scale production chains with corp members (giving them something else they need to defend). All taxes from moving items will be set by the corp in control and will be an additional income stream. Any other player/corp who wants to use the planet will need to pay the taxes or take control of the Hub, through hiring sufficient npc-mercs or Dusties. What this will give is a reason for Dusties and Podders to interract, reasons to hire them, NPC-AI for the dusties to combat and influence for Dusties over eve corps (and potentially sovreignty etc...) With no caps in highsec, dusties can be introduced to combat in high-sec systems, then move onto the more complex game (with additional experience/equipment etc) buy moving on to low and Null-sec systems where the rewards along with the challenge/risks would be higher. Keeping it simple, this would integrate the two systems and give players from both communities things to fight over, reasons to engage and benefits from having ownership. SM.
Ranud Sunraker Brothers of Destiny Phobia. 0	Posted - 2011.10.06 13:04:00 - [37] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Research Institute (new -> 100 employees, 450 power grid, 900 CPU, 2500 isk daily operational cost) 2 slot lab, 0,5 modifier, 4 different types: i) Amarr Research Institute GÇô Invention bonus??? ii) Caldari Research Institute GÇô Copy speed bonus iii) Gallente Research Institute GÇô Productivity bonus iv) Minmatar Research Institute GÇô ME bonus * Research institutes will enable the manufacturing of datacores using existing PI mechanisms, i.e. Select the blueprint from the list and manufacture over time. The Amarr are not really known for their creative mindset. Rather efficient and quick mass production. Gallente are more likely to be the creative guys. I'd suggest to exchange the boni of Gallente and Amarr.
skajit spey Wormhole Exploration Crew Night Sky Alliance 4	Posted - 2011.10.06 13:12:00 - [38] - Quote bump I was going to suggest something simpler to start....like...right click on temperate planet > land at any one of 1 to xx spaceports(must have unique names/enviroments...not just a 'door') with agents > courier missions > off world transport of goods/passengers > encoounter missions > intercept escaping smuggler in Millenium Falcon (sorry!) .....what have you > with a whole new class of ships. The OP is much more comprehensive and though out. Well done...ALL THAT!!!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 516	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:22:00 - [39] - Quote Ranud Sunraker wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: Research Institute (new -> 100 employees, 450 power grid, 900 CPU, 2500 isk daily operational cost) 2 slot lab, 0,5 modifier, 4 different types: i) Amarr Research Institute GÇô Invention bonus??? ii) Caldari Research Institute GÇô Copy speed bonus iii) Gallente Research Institute GÇô Productivity bonus iv) Minmatar Research Institute GÇô ME bonus * Research institutes will enable the manufacturing of datacores using existing PI mechanisms, i.e. Select the blueprint from the list and manufacture over time. The Amarr are not really known for their creative mindset. Rather efficient and quick mass production. Gallente are more likely to be the creative guys. I'd suggest to exchange the boni of Gallente and Amarr. Fair point. I agree. I'll make a note to swap those around when I repost this in the assembly hall. Ranud Sunraker wrote: I was going to suggest something simpler to start....like...right click on temperate planet > land at any one of 1 to xx spaceports(must have unique names/enviroments...not just a 'door') with agents > courier missions > off world transport of goods/passengers > encoounter missions > intercept escaping smuggler in Millenium Falcon (sorry!) .....what have you > with a whole new class of ships. My idea would have been to restrict player/corp/alliance owned agents (that give their owners a cut of each players payout as tax etc) that could give you security, research or distribution/courier missions only to the big "Capital cities". Otherwise every player owned civilian network would setup a bar, spam agents and thus end up flooding the game with more agents than players. Granted, this would not reduce the value of agents or manifest in reduced income from commodities, but it would play havoc with pvpers who enjoy ganking mission runners and at some point, force a revamp of agents that would not go down well with PI farmers. However, allowing every city and or single network to just spam agents would not go down well in terms of creating attention seeking value that would make players flock to one city, or even fight over those cities if their out in the middle of soviet mordor. But you get the general idea.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 516	Posted - 2011.10.06 14:37:00 - [40] - Quote Susiqueta Muir wrote: GRR, just had to re-type all this...... My thought is that each planet should have one single central trade hub that controls import/export to orbit (and related taxes) plus trade planetside between players and corps. If players want to move items off world then they need to move items through this hub, paying any taxes which are set in place by the owning Corp. Hubs can be owned by podder corps or Dustie merc units. Podders can hire NPC merc resources (weekly fee, more isk=better troops) to claim ownership over the hub. This will allow the ownership of the hub to change hands, but also populate the planet with AI troops for Dusties to fight against. If there are no Dusties then Eve pilots will have a mechanism for cliaming control. their troops could also gain benefits for control if the eve corp can get a Cap-ship in orbit and use it to bombard enemy positions. Players could then move PI commodities to this central store and use it to set-up large scale production chains with corp members (giving them something else they need to defend). All taxes from moving items will be set by the corp in control and will be an additional income stream. Any other player/corp who wants to use the planet will need to pay the taxes or take control of the Hub, through hiring sufficient npc-mercs or Dusties. What this will give is a reason for Dusties and Podders to interract, reasons to hire them, NPC-AI for the dusties to combat and influence for Dusties over eve corps (and potentially sovreignty etc...) With no caps in highsec, dusties can be introduced to combat in high-sec systems, then move onto the more complex game (with additional experience/equipment etc) buy moving on to low and Null-sec systems where the rewards along with the challenge/risks would be higher. Keeping it simple, this would integrate the two systems and give players from both communities things to fight over, reasons to engage and benefits from having ownership. SM. You might be on to something here. But this would need some more fleshing out. 1) Dust players would need a mechanism of ownership i.e Skills like Eve players for Command centers, or else they would not be able to physically assign ownership of such a building or network segment to a corp ceo/individual player. 2) A transfer mechanism like a courier contract for the goods that will end up going through this building. If players simply had to pay the corp who owned the trade hub and then magically give them their stuff, nothing would prevent the hub owners from taking their isk and their goods and just keeping it for themselves, thus ruining the city trading mechanism or turning it into a pirate haven. 3) The scale and level at which such a building would operate. Basically, a trade hub would bring about planetary markets, where goods no longer had to be sold on stations, but could be stored and sold/purchased on planets instead, outside of spaceships and station hangers. But instead of linking each network within a city to a tradehub, I'd propose linking individual cities to 1 planetary trade hub. This would then facilitate inter city trade on the planet (allowing cities to produce various items in eve and then trade them free market style) and can become the main market customs office for off-world trade in terms of imports and exports. How would a planetary trade-hub effect Eve's Cities then? i) Dust and Eve players would then vie for control of the planetary trade hub at all times. Bigger cities with bigger markets would attract bigger alliances hoping for bigger financial cuts. ii) Planetary Trade-hub owners can impose taxes on any item that goes through, as well as provide a very solid foundation for planetary customs, i.e What those alliances would like to declare as illegal/confiscate-able contraband . This would lead to market control in the form of controlling the types and quantity of goods flowing through the city veins, or control which players can or cannot buy items from planetary cities.

tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 4	Posted - 2011.10.06 19:43:00 - [41] - Quote damn, this is one of those ideas that get better and better the more people talk about it. Its all about the refining baby! [edit] wow, first on the third page! Where the science gets done
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 16	Posted - 2011.10.06 20:12:00 - [42] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Where's the EVE-Dust link? Ultimately there has to be something for Capsuleers to hire DUST or NPC mercs to do. Part of running PI will be managing mercenary attacks/defenses. This must be incorporated into the ideas presented here. You mention "downtime" a scary number of times in this article. The developers are desperately trying to remove all dependence on downtime, with the aim of having EVE running 24x7. Don't require any dependence on downtime, describe "at downtime" things in terms of a discrete event happening a number of hours from certain conditions being met, or steady progress at a particular rate. PI must include DUST by design, not by bolt-on after the fact. Well, if there were cities in play, this would allow for a new facet of Dust, which would be MOUT (Military Operations Urban Terrain) and Close Quarters Combat. It could also affect mechanics for Dust Marines by having contracts that state that they have to minimize civilian casualties, or could put them against insurgent groups trying to defend their homes. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 4	Posted - 2011.10.07 00:24:00 - [43] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. I think you have your requirements down with excess (especially likes, damn!) Where the science gets done
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 0	Posted - 2011.10.07 14:26:00 - [44] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: ... or control which players can or cannot buy items from planetary cities. I suddenly have this vision of a pilot decanting to have a stroll along the planetary Incarna mall, only to be stopped at the entry gate by MPs and being informed by the MPs that they've been declared persona non grata (based on standings of course). That and if such persons did find a way in (clone smuggling anyone?), billboards around the place could be showing CONCORD style wanted ads reminding the locals to keep an eye out for such deviants. "Remember citizens: vigilance is safety. This message brought to you by QUAFE(tm) PerceptiMax Cola; it's like having eyes in the back of your head!"
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 96	Posted - 2011.10.07 15:55:00 - [45] - Quote Screw this. I don't log on to spend hours doing PI. I do it to fuel my pos and put a little extra isk in the pocket. Making things more complicated for the sake of making things more complicated benefits noone ultimately. Besides, how in the hell do you expect these populations centers to pop up in a wormhole? Yeah, civilians will really go for that... Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 42	Posted - 2011.10.08 03:27:00 - [46] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Screw this. I don't log on to spend hours doing PI. I do it to fuel my pos and put a little extra isk in the pocket. Making things more complicated for the sake of making things more complicated benefits noone ultimately. Besides, how in the hell do you expect these populations centers to pop up in a wormhole? Yeah, civilians will realltechnically "y go for that... The idea keeps the simplicity you currently use, but adds much more depth to those wanting more from planets (as was advertised with the original launch of Tyrannis). Also, technically, how do customs offices get into wormhole space? They shouldn't exist either... But I don't see why population centers couldn't develop in wspace. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting
Nutty Grandad Mental Clowns Sev3rance 0	Posted - 2011.10.08 06:43:00 - [47] - Quote Best darned post ever! +1 Problem is, will CCP a) read it and b) ever take note of what players ACTUALLY want? Would like to see how their 'preferred' botters would get their teeth into it. lol
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 517	Posted - 2011.10.08 08:15:00 - [48] - Quote tankus2 wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. I think you have your requirements down with excess (especially likes, damn!) I'm currently doing the whole Office Word thing, systematically redrafting this topic with another 2-3 pages of new additions, changes, like: Sub capital ships (Pods, shuttles, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, battle cruisers and battleships) being able to agress PI structures, but they would have to fly into the atmosphere, get to within their conventional Eve turret/target range (2km - 90km) and then be able to target and fire upon structures or Dust targets on the surface and air. They would also become subject to planetary Aggression Timers, but would not be made vulnerable to the big anti cap guns that can be placed on the surface by Military PI networks. This would make sub capital ships vulnerable to Dust attacks from small arms, medium arms, planetary fighters/flying vehicles, tanks, Dust based anti infantry/vehicle/air turrets etc. Sub capital ships in the atmosphere of any planet will not be able to warp away if things go wrong, since the friction and speed would rip their hulls apart. They would first have to break orbit (going back the way the capital ships are located in, in orbit, so lots of camping potential there) before they can flee. They can also not use micro-warp drives in the atmosphere, since this would have a similar effect over a slightly longer duration. Only afterburners could be used to increase their speed. Their maneuverability would also be severely impaired by the atmosphere of the planets. Fleshing out the social slots (places where players can setup shops etc) and areas of Cities (like promenades, balconies, market squares etc) Fleshing out the planetary/city market system Introducing a smuggling system that makes sense and actually means something for the market system for planets. Introducing a ship theft mechanism for unguarded ships parked at star ports. Building a license system (Similar to the hi-sec faction charters for towers) for player/corp/alliance owned Agents and missions that could be made available to other players based on inter corp standings. This system would be dreadfully expensive. Adding more building variety (slave pens, pleasure hubs, casino's, bars etc) and refining the existing proposed buildings for civilian and military PI networks. I'm also trying to make the first few posts a bit more readable, hoping to reduce the giant wall of text to make it more Assembly Hall friendly. It's not a fast process.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 4	Posted - 2011.10.08 18:14:00 - [49] - Quote all good things take a lot of time and effort to make, and this is certainly one of them! Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 538	Posted - 2011.10.21 18:23:00 - [50] - Quote Bumping this in the hope that a dev will read it before I repost it with more additions......... again

Azziej Pixelmoon The Star League 0	Posted - 2011.10.21 19:30:00 - [51] - Quote so, let me get this right... As a capsuleer you are already immortal and may call yourself a god if you will. (lovely intro movie when you start the game for the first time). But now you actually want to Qadhafify yourself to rule your own planet???? Come on how much more unrealistic can it get. I beg you all to keep science fiction possible and not start adding elves and dwarfes and orcs into the game.... THANK YOU!!!
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 6	Posted - 2011.10.21 22:48:00 - [52] - Quote uhhh... ok? This is a humans-only universe here and all factions involved are humans, though some are augmented with technology. Even the chaps who strap an iPhone to the side of their head. Though thank you for the bump, however random it was. Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 538	Posted - 2011.10.22 09:11:00 - [53] - Quote Azziej wrote: so, let me get this right... As a capsuleer you are already immortal and may call yourself a god if you will. (lovely intro movie when you start the game for the first time). But now you actually want to Qadhafify yourself to rule your own planet???? Come on how much more unrealistic can it get. I beg you all to keep science fiction possible and not start adding elves and dwarfes and orcs into the game.... THANK YOU!!! You got it wrong. Orcs and Elves.... I don't know what you were reading.... And Qadhafify? What are you smoking?
Azziej Pixelmoon The Star League 1	Posted - 2011.10.22 14:33:00 - [54] - Quote Your PI 2.0 is a fantasy story and that's exactly why i bring elves, dwarfs and orcs up. Science fiction is based on advanced technologies that are very much possible to happen in a short or long period of time. Do you see us on planet earth being told what to do and pay tax to a plonker in a space ship??? I find it so incredibly sad that people are adding so much freaking fantasy to the genre.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 6	Posted - 2011.10.22 16:50:00 - [55] - Quote I think you are reading into this incorrectly. We would pay taxes to some 'plonker in a space ship', a term you so eloquently used, if said plonker had bought and dropped, with their own funds, our entire city. This would be like some billionaire today setting up a town and inviting people to live there, even though they'd have to pay him a small tax in return for him already building a nice, clean, brand-new town without all of the corruption, crime, or disrepair that everywhere else shows. Better yet, he also set up several industries for folks to work at and an academy that, upon completing a course, guarantees you a job among the stars! Then there is the military base that has been set up, which is an even bigger positive thing (more jobs et cetra) So no, this is not 'loler trolls r pwnin ur base!', this is science fiction that can actually happen, if the people who can drop the kind of money necessary to make it happen were so generous. However, they are few on this little jewel of a planet. In Eve, we are everywhere. Where the science gets done

CCP Phantom C C P C C P Alliance 76	Posted - 2011.10.22 17:49:00 - [56] - Quote Nutty Grandad wrote: Best darned post ever! +1 Thank you very much, Asuka Solo. Also big thanks to the participants in the following fruitful discussion! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 540	Posted - 2011.10.22 19:23:00 - [57] - Quote Azziej wrote: Your PI 2.0 is a fantasy story and that's exactly why i bring elves, dwarfs and orcs up. You definition of sci-fi and your ability to comprehend is a fantasy. Azziej wrote: Science fiction is based on advanced technologies that are very much possible to happen in a short or long period of time. All these proposed technologies and ideas in this topic already exists in the Eve lore and exists in reality today, with the exception of terraforming, which I believe you'll clearly define as Sci-fi. Azziej wrote: Do you see us on planet earth being told what to do and pay tax to a plonker in a space ship??? Yes. The same way CCP sees you paying tax for your own PI goods to the brosef in your alliance that owns the customs office.... The same way CCP sees us renting space from people who don't own it.... The same people who live multiple lightyears away in their spaceships... Who then force you to pay tax just so you can dock and use their 0.0 stations.... Or pay tax for standings.... Azziej wrote: I find it so incredibly sad that people are adding so much freaking fantasy to the genre. The only thing being added here is depth to a sci-fi world. If you don't like it, WoW is that way ->. You obviously seem to have the disposition for it.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 7	Posted - 2011.10.22 19:53:00 - [58] - Quote Asuka, don't let some person who has the wrong ideas trash your thread for you. He either thought he had a point, which was cleanly dismissed, or was trolling. The good he did do for this threadnaught was put it on the front page again, and I'll have to give him that. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy a spot of tea as the various engineers throughout empire space design your new planetary structures. Where the science gets done
TuonelanOrja Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2011.10.22 20:54:00 - [59] - Quote Your **** sounds like original episode I script, I'm glad you stole it.. what you think next will happen now
Gevlin SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance 11	Posted - 2011.10.22 21:18:00 - [60] - Quote like those ideas. would be make PI interesting for me to part take in, as I am not nessary interested in using PI to simply make isk

Mr Pimms Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.10.22 21:50:00 - [61] - Quote +1
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 7	Posted - 2011.10.22 22:55:00 - [62] - Quote TuonelanOrja wrote: Your **** sounds like original episode I script, I'm glad you stole it.. who are you talking to? Just confused ? :( ? Where the science gets done
Lord Mandelor Consolidated Holdings War Ensemble. 4	Posted - 2011.10.23 04:43:00 - [63] - Quote Lording over a planet of peasants struggling for survival on a dystopian Lava planet hellhole has always been my dream. Marvelous implementation idea. ConHo Daily: http://conhodaily.blogspot.com Stories ranging from midgets inside your Damage Control to drones becoming self-aware.
Mortrius Defenders of Order 7	Posted - 2011.10.23 07:58:00 - [64] - Quote I love reading through ideas that I thought of before, but never put to paper. We should have coffee sometime :D
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 8	Posted - 2011.10.23 20:11:00 - [65] - Quote Its always good that a good idea flows though multiple minds. Gives it a greater chance of seeing the light of day ;) Where the science gets done
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 220	Posted - 2011.10.24 02:51:00 - [66] - Quote Haven't read the op but i'm seeing hypoc..... ahem.. people keeping it civil and giving constructive feedback regardless of their opinions so that is a plus for me. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand.
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 421	Posted - 2011.10.24 03:35:00 - [67] - Quote I think the only real problem I have with it is this... I'm already committed to half an hour or so of PI per day, longer when things need rearranging. I'd worry that this would push things towards being so complex that someone that relies on PI to keep the pos running (and for extra income) will find it taking far more time... spending the majority of my Eve time playing with planets isn't really what I'm looking for. Perhaps these concerns wouldn't be realized, but they need to be thought of. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 8	Posted - 2011.10.24 03:52:00 - [68] - Quote It should be given that this PI idear gives a greater option for players to be more cooperative (and competitive!) than what is current, and I think (I'd need to doublecheck) that one is still limited to one base per planet, though they can link up with other bases for form networks (and etc.), which means playing with or against other players. Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 622	Posted - 2011.10.24 03:59:00 - [69] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: I think the only real problem I have with it is this... I'm already committed to half an hour or so of PI per day, longer when things need rearranging. I'd worry that this would push things towards being so complex that someone that relies on PI to keep the pos running (and for extra income) will find it taking far more time... spending the majority of my Eve time playing with planets isn't really what I'm looking for. Perhaps these concerns wouldn't be realized, but they need to be thought of. A valid issue that one or two others have brought up. Long story short, my idea will not force you to spend days doing PI to keep your POS up with some PI fuels. You can still place a single industrial network on a plasma, storm, gas, lava and barren planet to make your POS fuels and continue to operate your PI in 1-2 hours a week as you have up until now. If you want no part in setting up larger networks or placing PI-hubs, then you need not concern yourself. But for those of us who actually make a living from PI and can't be asked to do anything else, we can take things further. We can invest our time and isk into setting up these giant cities and end up producing more isk than a single network would have. Naturally, we risk losing it all to the odd dust gang or cap fleet.
Mirima Thurander Deventer Exploration An Acquisition 28	Posted - 2011.10.24 04:03:00 - [70] - Quote any way, I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh.

Baneken The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now. 14	Posted - 2011.10.24 09:05:00 - [71] - Quote Now add in "a planetary governor" -office for WiS and we're set.
Ulam Stanislaw SON OF RAVANA League of Reprobates 0	Posted - 2011.10.25 14:16:00 - [72] - Quote Great Ideas Asuka! +1
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 436	Posted - 2011.10.25 14:54:00 - [73] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Ingvar Angst wrote: I think the only real problem I have with it is this... I'm already committed to half an hour or so of PI per day, longer when things need rearranging. I'd worry that this would push things towards being so complex that someone that relies on PI to keep the pos running (and for extra income) will find it taking far more time... spending the majority of my Eve time playing with planets isn't really what I'm looking for. Perhaps these concerns wouldn't be realized, but they need to be thought of. A valid issue that one or two others have brought up. Long story short, my idea will not force you to spend days doing PI to keep your POS up with some PI fuels. You can still place a single industrial network on a plasma, storm, gas, lava and barren planet to make your POS fuels and continue to operate your PI in 1-2 hours a week as you have up until now. If you want no part in setting up larger networks or placing PI-hubs, then you need not concern yourself. But for those of us who actually make a living from PI and can't be asked to do anything else, we can take things further. We can invest our time and isk into setting up these giant cities and end up producing more isk than a single network would have. Naturally, we risk losing it all to the odd dust gang or cap fleet. I have ten planets in production right now... extracting a variety of goods from most and importing them to others to produce not only everything required for a pos (with enough excess to sell) but also a myriad of other goods in preparations for the new POCO nightmare that's going to be forced upon us. My networks are large enough already, with, I think... 27 establishments of varying types on one particular barren that solely serves in a produciton role (no extractions). It takes a bit of paying attention and tweaking to keep the extractions producing what I need in the quantities I need it and moving them to where they're needed. My networks are fine. I don't need any additional layers screwing up the system that's taken months to settle and stabilize. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 639	Posted - 2011.10.25 17:34:00 - [74] - Quote I have quite a bit more planets than you. If your planets work for you as they are, they can stay as they are. The rest of us will slowly turn our planets into techmoons with our additional layers.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 8	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:15:00 - [75] - Quote Some of like our cakes over our pies, thank you Where the science gets done
Yin Akacha Games Inc. EVE Trade Consortium 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 16:43:00 - [76] - Quote +1 This is amazing
Ingvar Angst Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United 463	Posted - 2011.10.28 16:46:00 - [77] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: I have quite a bit more planets than you. If your planets work for you as they are, they can stay as they are. The rest of us will slowly turn our planets into techmoons with our additional layers. If you allow the ability for pre-existing things to continue without involuntary disruption then this is an idea I can easily support. Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 644	Posted - 2011.10.28 18:03:00 - [78] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: I have quite a bit more planets than you. If your planets work for you as they are, they can stay as they are. The rest of us will slowly turn our planets into techmoons with our additional layers. If you allow the ability for pre-existing things to continue without involuntary disruption then this is an idea I can easily support. I am allowing that. I said this under Industrial Command Centers "Current Industrial PI will remain unchanged by this suggestion" And in case that doesn't do it for you, I completely support that no networks be affected by this suggestion in the event that CCP gives it the nod of approval and migrate it to TQ. The new CCs will be seeded on the market. Players who are keen to try the new types, will have to kill their existing networks and redo everything. Players who have industrial PI, will also be able to setup the new buildings once the patch goes live, but will have to remove some of their existing buildings to free up enough CPU or powergrid to place stuff like Ice mines or whatever. If players want to setup cities, they will have to go buy a PI-Hub, place it and then manually have all their existing networks join it etc.
HELIC0N ONE GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2011.10.28 18:16:00 - [79] - Quote I'll be honest, I didn't read all of that, but the tl;dr makes it sound like what PI was initially sold to us as before it turned into the 1-dimensional dot-dropping clickfest we have currently. +1 for Sim City is space.
foxnod Brotherhood of the Coast 1	Posted - 2011.10.28 23:59:00 - [80] - Quote I haven't been able to read the whole thing but so far I really like it. Just a couple of suggestions. 1. Battleships should also be able to conduct planetary bombardment. 2. All ships that conduct planetary bombardment must be sniper fit.

Mehrdad Kor-Azor Viziam Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2011.10.29 00:30:00 - [81] - Quote This is absolutely amazing. Great idea!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 648	Posted - 2011.10.29 06:38:00 - [82] - Quote foxnod wrote: I haven't been able to read the whole thing but so far I really like it. Just a couple of suggestions. 1. Battleships should also be able to conduct planetary bombardment. 2. All ships that conduct planetary bombardment must be sniper fit. I am working on this and it will find its way into the next repost. It won't just be battleships tho, it will also allow frigates, destroyers, cruisers, bcs, shuttles and small industrials to do this. However, all sub caps will have to actually fly down into the atmosphere of a planet (to within the odd 50km of the networks) in order to agress or land on the PI structures. This will make them vulnerable to Dust small arms fire. I purposefully do not want them to be able to fire on PI from orbit, nor do I want them to be target able by the anti-cap weapons on the planet. Why not you ask? 1) Battleships will be too versitile. I had hoped that only Titans and dreads can fire on PI from orbit as to expand their roles a bit. Yes, I know we can sniper fit battleships to have the range of dreads and titans, but with this recent capital nerf, I think it only fair not to buff the battleship class with this ability since it would then be trespassing on capital territory.. 2) Battleships will get instapopped by the anti-cap guns if we were to allow them to fire on the networks, and allow the networks to shoot back. So a nice compromise would be to allow the battleships to fire on PI, but be put at risk of dust small arms fire.
DrHenryKillinger Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.10.29 08:18:00 - [83] - Quote my god.. this topic needs more support! +1
Electra Frost Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.10.29 16:41:00 - [84] - Quote Spartis Reave wrote: This is honestly the best thing I've ever read on the forums This. Massive read, but well worth it. Make this happen please.
Brannsy The Horizon Initiative Joined Brotherhood 0	Posted - 2011.10.29 22:42:00 - [85] - Quote This would take a ton of time/resources to perfect, but with Dust incoming and the current (rather bland) state of PI it would be a very worthwhile feature to implement. /support....if I could
Omega Tron Amarr Mining Inc Technical Exploration Conglomerate of Hemera 2	Posted - 2011.10.30 00:40:00 - [86] - Quote Dang another great player idea that CCP didn't think of so they'll never implement it. Anyway, your idea bloody good. +1
Daniel L'Siata Don't Regret Until Next Keg Dragoons. 26	Posted - 2011.10.31 03:32:00 - [87] - Quote Um....holy hell.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 683	Posted - 2011.11.08 20:09:00 - [88] - Quote More comments please
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 9	Posted - 2011.11.08 21:49:00 - [89] - Quote If we can come up with more superlatives, ya we'll give more (worthwhile) comments Where the science gets done
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation 34	Posted - 2011.11.08 23:40:00 - [90] - Quote Great ideas from what I've read so far. If CCP added features like this to the game many folks would rebel, and spit their dummies out about all that development time not being spent on pew pew spaceships, but I personally love the idea of Eve being a multi-multi-faceted game with lots of cool different stuff to try. That variety of play in the end is what keeps players interested longer term and judging by the Dev post, I'd say you've now got more of their attention so keep perfecting these ideas. My suggestions to you: 1. Try to get some art involved - nothing inspires people better than a nice picture or vision of what this could look like. 2. Don't over complicate or over-specify your idea - CCP have plenty of game designers to work on the minute detail 3. Keep expanding the idea - You've possibly only scratched the surface of what you could do with a PI minigame Don't give up, keep bumping because this could be the next dead horse. Once enough folks get on board the PI 2.0 train, the only destination is a better Eve! Cheers!

Burseg Sardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 63	Posted - 2011.11.09 00:00:00 - [91] - Quote Vyktor Abyss wrote: ... My suggestions to you: 1. Try to get some art involved - nothing inspires people better than a nice picture or vision of what this could look like. This is a really good point, I think a lot of traction that the "Dead Horse" POS thread gained was partly because the OP had fleshed out images to couple with the concepts. The funny thing is, anything that isn't pegs on a sphere is already steps in the right direction to be better than the current PI graphics. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting
Jace Errata Cobalt Valkyrie Industries The Ambivalent 19	Posted - 2011.11.09 00:15:00 - [92] - Quote Now I'll be honest here, I didn't read all of that. I couldn't, my head doesn't do that. But it's clearly extremely well-thought-out, an incredibly good idea, and would almost certainly make me pay more attention to my one lonely planet. Also I was expecting something much simpler, more like the Planet screen from Haegemonia: Legions of Iron (not sure if that was ever popular enough for anyone to recognize that?) but this is way more epic. Comments etc: - Would spaceships be able to land, Elite-style? - Warp-in points for planets would have to be closer. Currently you warp in at a few hundred thousand k above the atmosphere, and that's a heck of a way to travel in a BS. - As previously mentioned, Han Solo-style smuggling would be possible. - Would additional defensive systems be able to be fitted to an arcology/biodome/city-saucer/perimeter wall in a manner similar to ship fitting? - Would the entire underlying infrastructure of a city be able to be based on ship fitting? I see this as slots for 'scraper complexes, entire new districts etc, with extra slots being added by current-PI-style constructions. Anyway hope this happens. Let's...just assume there's some kind of signature here, 'k? ... ... OH WAIT. Jace Errata on Twitter
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 10	Posted - 2011.11.09 01:44:00 - [93] - Quote I think you have maybe opened a new facet to this threadnaught to cover Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 685	Posted - 2011.11.09 05:19:00 - [94] - Quote Vyktor Abyss wrote: My suggestions to you: 1. Try to get some art involved - nothing inspires people better than a nice picture or vision of what this could look like. 2. Don't over complicate or over-specify your idea - CCP have plenty of game designers to work on the minute detail 3. Keep expanding the idea - You've possibly only scratched the surface of what you could do with a PI minigame 1. I'll look into it. 2. Despite that they had no ideas about PI when they did their refocus planning. Player owned customs offices? Spitting in the wind I say. The closest thing to a PI upgrade I saw was their future vision video that had some new planetary overlay with what looked like linked networks. 3. We hope to. But for obvious reasons, we don't want to go all Command & Conquer on its ass. At its core, Eve is still about internet spaceships. Not RTS styled interplanetary army pew pew by mouse click. Jace Errata wrote: Comments etc: - Would spaceships be able to land, Elite-style? - Warp-in points for planets would have to be closer. Currently you warp in at a few hundred thousand k above the atmosphere, and that's a heck of a way to travel in a BS. - As previously mentioned, Han Solo-style smuggling would be possible. - Would additional defensive systems be able to be fitted to an arcology/biodome/city-saucer/perimeter wall in a manner similar to ship fitting? - Would the entire underlying infrastructure of a city be able to be based on ship fitting? I see this as slots for 'scraper complexes, entire new districts etc, with extra slots being added by current-PI-style constructions. Anyway hope this happens. 1) Yes, ships will be able to land at spaceports. I'm fleshing this out and will hopefully have an update post ready in a while 2) We will have a new enter planetary Orbit function that takes ships to about 200km range above orbit into a designated stargate style warp in area. This area will be the border between space and the stratosphere. 3) The Han Solo stuff has been worked out. I'm just scratching my head over Chewbacca. 4) Yes. My initial post provisioned anti-capital ship defenses that would be Eve player controllable. Now I'm also working on anti-sub cap/anti-dust merc defenses that can also be purchased and placed. These will end up becoming massive artillery installations that can provide ground to ground/air bombing for Dust players. Subsequently, these turrets will not be controllable by Eve players. 5) I'm contemplating introducing a 4th PI command center, that of Social PI. This PI will be purely slot based and will allow for player structures, zones etc, similar to outpost office slots for corporations. It will require no fuels and will have no expenses to operate aside from the costs of setting up the facilities on its various slots. But, an adjustable corp tax can be levied on all goods sold and items produced/released/delivered via these slots.
Cailais Rekall Incorporated 107	Posted - 2011.11.09 11:11:00 - [95] - Quote There are some interesting ideas here. What I would hope to see is that your 'civilian population', or work force determines the efficiency of your PI processes. In turn the political system, civilian structures and so forth determines to what extent your population grows. For example using a slave work force has a short term benefit to PI processes but one which degrades over time as your population 'dies off'' (maltreatment etc etc) and the population reduces. Using a 'democratic' work force increases population over time (increasing efficiency) but obviously takes longer to reap a return on that investment. Equally free workers can be taxed (though they might rebel). Something along the lines of what the OP suggests though is what I imagined PI would in fact be when it was first promoted. C.
Elder Ozzian Stargates and Smuggler Barons 0	Posted - 2011.11.09 12:04:00 - [96] - Quote Awesome idea! Also you could introduce the World of Darkness; Vampires in the cities and among the ordinary ppl.
David Grogan The Motley Crew Reborn 204	Posted - 2011.11.09 17:49:00 - [97] - Quote Quote: Gas: (+3% default rate) 12% population growth rate per downtime 9% death rate per down time i'm not sure this should be in the positive growth rate section living in a gas giant would be extremely taxing on human physiology... from constant storms, the high gravity, high radiation, and insane pressures would make it hard for a population to growth at all. however on barren/ice worlds it would be much easier for a population to grow due to the fact huge biospheres & underground facilities could be built to shield the citizens from radiation. Also the gravity and pressure on these worlds would be much more tolerable. Moons should also be considered for population. Especially moons around gas giants. but aside from that I like your idea alot Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Hallorin State War Academy Caldari State 7	Posted - 2011.11.09 18:30:00 - [98] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: [Part 6 of 14] Planetary gun/missile emplacement (2500 power, 1250 CPU, 1000 Employees, 2000 isk per hour operational cost + ammo costs) (Places guns/missiles on planet surface in City that can fire from under City shield or without shield, similar to the stargate/POS gun setup) Damages non friendly (can be set via standings) capital ships only in orbit around the planet, firing on neutral Capitals by default (That have Planetary aggression timers) at similar rates to the stargate/station guns, but should pack a bit more punch since they are firing on capital ships, so the damage should be so much that a single dread without logistics will be unable to tank the DPS and will have to warp out or risk being lost to planetary fire. Sub capital ships will not be shot at by planet side guns, since they will be too small to lock onto. Likewise, sub capitals and carriers will not be able to engage structures or segments. Any Carrier that is remote repping Dreadnoughts or Titans with PATs will also receive a planetary aggression timer. +1 to all these ideas. very good. This in particular I like a lot. There's a ton of talk lately about orbital bombardment, especially with dust on the horizon, which gets me thinking, why wouldn't planets be shooting back? Planet Guns! see first 45 seconds of this for definitive proof that planetary gun emplacements are awesome
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 702	Posted - 2011.11.09 20:57:00 - [99] - Quote ***Smuggling mechanism Draft v1.0* The context: Individual players/small corps who will not be able to setup and safe guard Planetary Customs offices, or who simply choose not to pay the natives their taxes to use and pillage their planets, can land their ships in spaceports to collect their PI. They can physically load their PI goods into their ship cargo holds, provided they route their PI goods from their networks, via the PI-hub, to either a corp hanger (much bigger storage space, but can be tracked by the owner corp, intercepted and even locked down until their customs office clears your lewt) or a Starport (which will have a limited personal storage capacity of 30000m3 per player, similar to the current Incarna 1.1 customs office setup). Subsequently, corps can do little to prevent you from routing goods to the starport, but can setup ambushes or interception parties in the event that you do. Starports will have docking fees and notifications. If players choose to land on another corporation/alliance's starport, they will be notified of your arrival with a time stamp and a ship class. They will also be notified of the ship departing their starport. This same mechanism applies to starports of your own corporation, with regards to your comings and goings. Standings (As set by directors or CEOs or diplos) can affect the docking fees (As set by CEOs), or even docking rights (As set by Directors, CEOs or diplos). Players with red standings, can be booted from the starport after spending 10 minutes or more in the starport (They will show up in the docked list - a new type of list to introduce, that works similar to the assets tab (delayed by 10 mins)). Personal items located in corp hangers will work under the same principle as to enable locking down personal goods of people who try to smuggle it off-world without permission. Corporations who look down on smugglers, can then arrange gangs to either hover outside the starport and take down the ships as they take off, for a super time-dilated fight to the death in slow mo like Neo (due to the friction of the atmosphere and all that, no warping or mwds will be allowed until you clear the atmosphere), or they can wait for the would be Han Solos in space with bubbles at the planetary orbit entry/exit point. The starport itself would have a spawning area for ships taking off, a radius of 30km. This should give gang bangers and smugglers equal opportunity to have their cake and eat it if the planetary overlords had gangs of 5 or less. All ships entering and leaving the starport would be vulnerable to Dust small arms fire, once Dust gets released and the Eve side of life catches on. All covert ops ships will be able to cloak once they undock from the starport, as per the normal spawning at a stargate mechanism. Standard ships with t1 cloaks will not be able to activate these cloaking devices while in the atmosphere. Black Ops ships will be able to warp out of planets into space as well as jump to cynos while in the atmosphere (To give them that sexy little boost they need). T3 ships with interdiction-nullifiers and covert configs can do the same. Players who dock on their own personal/corp/alliance starports will not attract any attention from the other natives on the planet or space, unless they spot your network & starport and camp you out. This in addition to setting up Eve side bubble gang camps at customs offices... if corps were so inclined. Using this mechanism, players can smuggle their PI goods off world with a little bit more effort than normal, all the while bypassing the customs office and possible extortionist taxes and or non access. *Skills for smuggling profession v1.0:*** Smooth Talk [3] 5% reduction in customs taxes and docking fees per level (Prerequisites: Social V, Fast Talk V, Negotiation V) Smuggling [5] +12 second delay in docking/departing notifications per level (Prerequisites: Smooth Talk V, Trade V, Criminal Connections V) Infiltration [8] +10% chance to avoid starport docking/departure notifications per level (Prerequisites: Covert Ops IV, Smuggling V) Thoughts?
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 702	Posted - 2011.11.09 21:19:00 - [100] - Quote David Grogan wrote: Quote: Gas: (+3% default rate) 12% population growth rate per downtime 9% death rate per down time i'm not sure this should be in the positive growth rate section living in a gas giant would be extremely taxing on human physiology... from constant storms, the high gravity, high radiation, and insane pressures would make it hard for a population to growth at all. however on barren/ice worlds it would be much easier for a population to grow due to the fact huge biospheres & underground facilities could be built to shield the citizens from radiation. Also the gravity and pressure on these worlds would be much more tolerable. Moons should also be considered for population. Especially moons around gas giants. but aside from that I like your idea alot I was thinking of Bespin (Star Wars) when I was placing the Planets into those groups. Somehow I picture a floating Gas giant installation to be more habitable than some frozen Hoth hellhole. In Bespin you could actually sit on a bench outside and watch the sun go down. Hoth is a different story. But I'm open to swapping those figures around if we could justify it with a valid enough point. As for moons... I am contemplating a post about Moon Interaction and the death of POS based moon mining. Naturally, the same command centers could be used for MI, thus giving rise to moon cities etc.

Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 4	Posted - 2011.11.10 00:33:00 - [101] - Quote Definitely PI need allot of changes! an CCP can take allot of things from here =D!
Bender 01000010 EVE-RO Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2011.11.10 07:27:00 - [102] - Quote how about drones? Imagine a ginormous swarm of light drones (atmospheric capable version) fighting in a planet atmosphere being sent by lots of carriers orbiting the planet they attack.. the battle from surface would have to be epic from a dust player perspective :D.. ground arty turrets popping 1 drone per hit (for light drones).. i personally would carry a full drone bay of light drones in my first planetary battle just for the light show :)) if this will happen
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 4	Posted - 2011.11.10 14:20:00 - [103] - Quote Dreadnoughts could have a Planetary Attack drone bay!! each drone "capsule" are trowed and when it reaches the ground, opens and some drones emerge from it! also carriers and titans could deploy large attack turrets!! and small ships could deploy soldier capsules that allow Dust players to enter combat from different spots... A force recon or some new type of ship could deploy Covert ops dust commandos capsules... this would be awesome!!! Allot of possibilities!!!!!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 718	Posted - 2011.11.10 16:02:00 - [104] - Quote Alx Warlord wrote: Dreadnoughts could have a Planetary Attack drone bay!! each drone "capsule" are trowed and when it reaches the ground, opens and some drones emerge from it! also carriers and titans could deploy large attack turrets!! and small ships could deploy soldier capsules that allow Dust players to enter combat from different spots... A force recon or some new type of ship could deploy Covert ops dust commandos capsules... this would be awesome!!! Allot of possibilities!!!!! I do not want to introduce new guns for capitals to allow them to attack PI. I'd prefer it if they used their existing long range XL weapons, but restrict orbital bombardment to capital ships only. We could allow drone based sub cap pew pew for ships within the atmosphere and within dust merc fire range, but this would require allot of fleshing out. The only drones I would even entertain of allowing to attack PI from orbit would be fighters and bombers, but this would create an imbalance since drones don't have ammo per say. Yes I know the future vision video had air strikes (presumably from carriers), but I'd also assume these strikes would be Dust beacon based and not Eve pilot driven in terms of shooting PI structures at will. The Dust merc capsule by Carrier thing has some potential methinks. Obviously still lots of areas to address. So keep the comments coming.
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 4	Posted - 2011.11.10 17:41:00 - [105] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: I was thinking of Bespin (Star Wars) when I was placing the Planets into those groups. Somehow I picture a floating Gas giant installation to be more habitable than some frozen Hoth hellhole. In Bespin you could actually sit on a bench outside and watch the sun go down. Hoth is a different story. But I'm open to swapping those figures around if we could justify it with a valid enough point. There's enough tech in EvE to justify the Bespin style floating cities as is, it may just make some sort of "contruction preimium" cost modification necessary. Building on a temperate world (even if CCPs idea of "temperate" is... questionable) would be fairly easy (we do it now after all). Building on a Lava, Plasma, or Gas giant should probably cost more due to the extra protections needed to maintain the populace (though this may have already been sort of figured in using your earlier growth and production modifiers). Another possible source to look at for some inspiration might be some of the material from Transhuman Space for GURPS, or for another source available (legitmately free) online would be Eclipse Phase which has some of its material available under the creative commons license. Both are insanely well written and detailed if you love the trans/post humanism side of things, which we pod pilots are pretty safely a part of even without the more extreme "what is human?" modifications sometimes explored in the memes. I've never played either but own physical copies of everything ever written for both :P EDIT: as for Dusties arriving by capsule from a carrier, I have two things to say: 1) I ain't shaving my head to ferry them around, and 2) "Do you apes wanna live forever!?"
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 719	Posted - 2011.11.10 18:29:00 - [106] - Quote Corazani wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: I was thinking of Bespin (Star Wars) when I was placing the Planets into those groups. Somehow I picture a floating Gas giant installation to be more habitable than some frozen Hoth hellhole. In Bespin you could actually sit on a bench outside and watch the sun go down. Hoth is a different story. But I'm open to swapping those figures around if we could justify it with a valid enough point. There's enough tech in EvE to justify the Bespin style floating cities as is, it may just make some sort of "contruction preimium" cost modification necessary. Building on a temperate world (even if CCPs idea of "temperate" is... questionable) would be fairly easy (we do it now after all). Building on a Lava, Plasma, or Gas giant should probably cost more due to the extra protections needed to maintain the populace (though this may have already been sort of figured in using your earlier growth and production modifiers). Another possible source to look at for some inspiration might be some of the material from Transhuman Space for GURPS, or for another source available (legitmately free) online would be Eclipse Phase which has some of its material available under the creative commons license. Both are insanely well written and detailed if you love the trans/post humanism side of things, which we pod pilots are pretty safely a part of even without the more extreme "what is human?" modifications sometimes explored in the memes. I've never played either but own physical copies of everything ever written for both :P EDIT: as for Dusties arriving by capsule from a carrier, I have two things to say: 1) I ain't shaving my head to ferry them around, and 2) "Do you apes wanna live forever!?" I for one can safely proclaim my ambition for post humanism. One of the core reasons I flocked to Eve Online and Freelancer. As for your comment regarding construction costs, I agree completely. Construction costs for networks on certain planet types should outweigh others that would be considered easier and cheaper to colonize. One good reason I avoided including construction costs in my initial posts because I knew this issue might pop its head up and conceivably derail my suggestion. We have to start throwing around ideas for these cost structure mechanisms and modifiers before I repost an updated version of this suggestion. My only real concern with the carrier ferrying dust mercs idea... will be the functional aspect. It implies the mercs will be on the ship in offline mode, running around some mess-hall while the ship makes its way to the war zone. What happens if that ship never makes it.... Will that kind of configuration be compatible with Eve's current database structures? Would it even be feasible? Not to mention it would open up Pandora's box. If dust mercs can live on your ship, why can't you. Cue the whole "gimme hallways and CQs on my ship etc" arguments. I'm all for that direction for Capital ships 100%. But I can already see the angry nerd rage of PvPers and jihaddists who would demand an equal amount of dev time and effort into making their PvP lives of griefing industrialists and miners more interesting or threatening to rage quit because of the new space-barbie online mode.
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 5	Posted - 2011.11.10 19:11:00 - [107] - Quote The Mercs on ships aspect of things is very definitely a good issue to try and skirt around if you can. If I recall correctly, one of the initial ideas tossed around for Dust was that the mercs would have their own ships (or at least be able to work up to having their own orbital battle barge) that would function as transport, lounge, and C&C entities. That also went quiet pretty fast, if I had to bet because somebody brought up the whole "if you give it stats someone will kill it" issue. As far as costs involved, in the end most would essentially be arbitrary. "Building on 'x' costs 'y' more than 'z' because you need to use 'n' number of fancy gribbly bits." Likely the simple way would be to establish a baseline cost (probably for 'temperate' worlds for simplicity), and then modify from there. Likely a good way of lining up the increase in costs would be to look at the potential profitability of the world they're being placed on vs that of the baseline world type and have some kind of increase based on the difference. Sure you can produce insert insanely profitable item here on plasma worlds (or whatever), but you also have to install additional shield generators, medical facilities, etc... to keep you workers moderately safe. Idealy, some worlds likely shouldn't be profitable/growable at all unless you build them up in a very specific manner. It reminds me of the old film "Outland." People only go there because they're paid stupid amounts of money, and most don't stay for too long because of the conditions.
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 4	Posted - 2011.11.11 00:09:00 - [108] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. Count me in
bornaa GRiD. 28	Posted - 2011.11.11 00:15:00 - [109] - Quote To OP: I love you! :) and yea... that's positive response... And please CCP... get some better graphic for PI... now it looks like sewerage system... only pipes pipes and pipes...
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 4	Posted - 2011.11.11 00:17:00 - [110] - Quote Burseg Sardaukar wrote: Ingvar Angst wrote: Screw this. I don't log on to spend hours doing PI. I do it to fuel my pos and put a little extra isk in the pocket. Making things more complicated for the sake of making things more complicated benefits noone ultimately. Besides, how in the hell do you expect these populations centers to pop up in a wormhole? Yeah, civilians will realltechnically "y go for that... The idea keeps the simplicity you currently use, but adds much more depth to those wanting more from planets (as was advertised with the original launch of Tyrannis). Also, technically, how do customs offices get into wormhole space? They shouldn't exist either... But I don't see why population centers couldn't develop in wspace. Fixed: Custom offices don't get there anymore... you will have to build them there... So time to build star-gates? for the planetary migration!

tengen san Triton-TC 2	Posted - 2011.11.11 11:47:00 - [111] - Quote It is a well formulated and thought trough proposal. But as Igvar Angst stated, on good reason out of the perspective of a sole FiS player, its complexity will take an enormous effort of time to interact with the growth and maintenance pattern as described. The complexity and time investment would require, but foremost attract a new type of player, no more the pod pilot but the GÇ£colonistGÇ¥. In 2005 aprox 12.000PL were active subscriber, venturing in 0.0. Space was rather a GÇ£sightseeing tourGÇ¥, in 2008 (25.000 PL) things have changed dramatically and in 2011 (near to 40.000Pl) there are earning problems argued in 0.0. By 2016, with an anticipated overpopulation of 70.000 PL active, the whole player space would be completely in a gridlock. Not adding much to the fun. Personally I estimate a 60.000 active subscriber are enough to put the lid on the can. To some extend WIS was designed to shutter valve subscribers out of FiS, players with lesser intent to interact on the High end provisions of the game, the proposed type of extended PI could go very well in this direction and serve as a new space while the game is growing in population. If so, it would be clearly to be accessed from the Dust platform. (If Dust ever will succeed, I have no daub on it beside all the political argumentation). This would give the proposal more likely the requested acceptance as it will meet the utter resistance of the ruling alliances in and out game if accessible by the Eve launcher. In its present form and in its complexity it pose as a parallel game with own contend diverting strongly form the sole FiS content on which EvE is originated. I remember Hilmar Petterson made a notion some time ago: GÇ£What we see on Eve by today is just scratching the surface of its potentialGÇ¥. From this point of view the proposal is digging below the surface.
Kingston Black Outdated Host Productions Vort3x. 0	Posted - 2011.11.11 13:13:00 - [112] - Quote i like god games, would definately play this one +10 internets!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 741	Posted - 2011.11.11 19:43:00 - [113] - Quote tengen san wrote: but foremost attract a new type of player, no more the pod pilot but the GÇ£colonistGÇ¥. The colonizers have been here since Tyranis. Some of us even longer, setting up hi-sec POS colonies.
tengen san Triton-TC 2	Posted - 2011.11.12 16:15:00 - [114] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: tengen san wrote: but foremost attract a new type of player, no more the pod pilot but the GÇ£colonistGÇ¥. The colonizers have been here since Tyranis. Some of us even longer, setting up hi-sec POS colonies. Right, but nothing of it comes close to the extend of this proposal.
Fournone Gallente Trade Union Moon Warriors 0	Posted - 2011.11.12 23:57:00 - [115] - Quote Please tell me you didn't change it much since the old forums, I don't want to read through this all agian. I supported old version, so gonna support this one.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 743	Posted - 2011.11.13 05:52:00 - [116] - Quote Fournone wrote: Please tell me you didn't change it much since the old forums, I don't want to read through this all agian. I supported old version, so gonna support this one. The difference between this version and the old forum version is about 10% of new stuff. PI 2.1 (The soon to be re-posted version) will have 40% new stuff compared to this one. So it's already a 20 something post threadnought.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 12	Posted - 2011.11.13 15:52:00 - [117] - Quote its already a threadnought that makes titans jealous! Where the science gets done
Li'ara Katarn Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.11.13 20:59:00 - [118] - Quote Supported the old one. +1 to this.
Ta Mo 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 04:52:00 - [119] - Quote +1
Mr Pimms Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 09:56:00 - [120] - Quote Alx Warlord wrote: So time to build star-gates? for the planetary migration! Asuka's been bouncing ideas around about planetary stargates after reading that. You have no idea what that post has done. He's going on and on about it, the future of smuggling, customs, the alternative to FiS travel with offline characters and offline-avatar based gate camping on planets. This topic just got bigger.

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 768	Posted - 2011.11.15 15:42:00 - [121] - Quote Mr Pimms wrote: Alx Warlord wrote: So time to build star-gates? for the planetary migration! Asuka's been bouncing ideas around about planetary stargates after reading that. You have no idea what that post has done. He's going on and on about it, the future of smuggling, customs, the alternative to FiS travel with offline characters and offline-avatar based gate camping on planets. This topic just got bigger. Last time I bounce ideas off you =P But yes. Alx got me thinking. Planetary Stargates. A WiS (or should I rather say W.o.p -> Walking on planets) expansion that basically enables Eve life without starships, pods or even space. It's a bit of a stretch and in it's early stages of design, but I think it could be a viable addition to this topic. We allow the construction of mini planet based stargates on the PI network (probably a military network), linking to another military network stargate owned by the same player/corp/alliance in some far away system. These planetary stargates will allow players to travel between planets the same way current space based stargates allow player ships to travel between systems. The stargates would only be able to send a limited amount of mass through at any given time (like wormholes), after which it would require a recharge or more fuel (if we made it run on a jump bridge/portal fuel system). All characters would then receive a mass value. We could also allow these stargates to be used as a means of transporting items (PI goods, fuels, materials, items or ships etc) between networks. But since our characters don't have backpacks or a wheelbarrow or something to move the items through the gate, we'd be looking at introducing controllable planetary industrial vehicles for Eve players. Imagine small industrial cargoships, mediums and large, only planet based with a limited storage capacity of say 5000m3, 10000m3 and 15000m3 or something along those lines ferrying goods between these stargates. This type of system would enable players to setup cities on hostile owned planets, spam goods and items and then use their own stargates to slowly move items to friendly planets, completely bypassing the entire "hostile fleet in local / gatecamps/ customs scene or risking ship and limb to retrieve goods from planets located in that hostile system. Once transported into friendlier waters, they could be retrieved via the starports or customs offices, or even kept on the planet and sold on the planetary markets. Still hashing allot of things out, will probably add another 3-5 posts or so to this topic.
Synner G EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 17:23:00 - [122] - Quote I heard a rumor that Interbus held the technical and manufacturing rights on Planetary Stargates, and that's why we never see them in space. Is this true?
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 768	Posted - 2011.11.16 04:50:00 - [123] - Quote Synner G wrote: I heard a rumor that Interbus held the technical and manufacturing rights on Planetary Stargates, and that's why we never see them in space. Is this true? I don't believe so. But if it is true, it would be the first I've heard of it.
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 9	Posted - 2011.11.16 05:30:00 - [124] - Quote Well, based on eve lore... Space bending: if HUGE and expensive: don't spend fuel and can transport big ships from one "stargate" to another. IF Small: (Covert ops, Titan and Jump bridges) Spend isotopes to stabilize the wormhole and can only open to a target cynosural field. If Natural: Have a limited amount of mass that can travel trough it. And have unpredictable range ( The less the stability the smaller it is..) So if a Planetary stargate would be possible the most common ones would be Small close-range and Expensive. So, In Wh-Space the Clonning and then jump-cloning the civilians would be the best procedure to increase population, although expensive.
tengen san Triton-TC 4	Posted - 2011.11.16 12:06:00 - [125] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: #31Posted: 2011.10.04 20:36 If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. So what is the judgment of the PI alliances on your idea? Now, the additions are made the odd likes received, when do we get to see the idea posted in the assembly hall? Or do you just want to continuing to nurse/babysit it here furthermore. ItGÇÖs a complex proposal which, if not judged by a boarder public, already start to loos attachment. Do you have direct contact with any of the devGÇÖs in the dust514 arena? The further this idea is taking out the more adjustments need to be done. Now you want to add "Walking on Planets", if this ever should be considered as a real implementation into the game it will take years to do so. DonGÇÖt think they just drop WiS or divert their ongoing Dust514 planning and time scheduling and jump over to your ideas which seem to grow as the days go by. For now itGÇÖs just a well thought, ever growing, SF storie based on the game. As long as you are not willing to put it in Assembly hall there will be no attention by the devGÇÖs.
tengen san Triton-TC 4	Posted - 2011.11.16 12:07:00 - [126] - Quote DP
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 768	Posted - 2011.11.16 15:23:00 - [127] - Quote tengen san wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: #31Posted: 2011.10.04 20:36 If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. So what is the judgment of the PI alliances on your idea? Now, the additions are made the odd likes received, when do we get to see the idea posted in the assembly hall? Or do you just want to continuing to nurse/babysit it here furthermore. ItGÇÖs a complex proposal which, if not judged by a boarder public, already start to loos attachment. Do you have direct contact with any of the devGÇÖs in the dust514 arena? The further this idea is taking out the more adjustments need to be done. Now you want to add "Walking on Planets", if this ever should be considered as a real implementation into the game it will take years to do so. DonGÇÖt think they just drop WiS or divert their ongoing Dust514 planning and time scheduling and jump over to your ideas which seem to grow as the days go by. For now itGÇÖs just a well thought, ever growing, SF storie based on the game. As long as you are not willing to put it in Assembly hall there will be no attention by the devGÇÖs. 1) I have yet to pass this along to the broader plain of PI alliances via the Assembly hall. This is in the process of happening. The alliance PI carebears I have spoken to in entities that transcend russian, french, former NC, former IT, ghetto pirates, pvpers, wormhole maniacs and the likes and they are well and truly fond of the idea. 2) No I do not have direct contact with a Dev for Dust or Eve. But this is an oversight I'm looking to remedy. 3) Thanks for the advice regarding the Assembly Hall. But patients young grasshopper. Even if this Assembly Hall post were made, it would not find it's way onto Sisi overnight. I anticipate the Assembly Hall to try it's best to tear it to shreds, so it's been sitting here in the ideas forums for sometime, smoothing out all the issues and covering all the basics so as to make more people happy than it would have with the initial 1st draft. Even if only 20% of this idea were considered, it would only ever see the light of existence some time after Dust is released, building upon the same technologies that will make fps on eve planets possible. As for the 2.1 version (Which will be posted in teh assembly hall), it will incorporate allot of the feedback collected in this topic, right up to about page 5 at this point in time. My Assembly Hall post is nearing completion if you have an interest in it's progress. I am just considering adding graphics to better convey the idea(s) behind it and how it would integrate with what we currently have. It will also feature a proposed release strategy, indicating what features should be introduced first and in what kind of time frame windows these new mechanisms, additions and dimensions to Eve should be introduced in.
tengen san Triton-TC 4	Posted - 2011.11.16 16:31:00 - [128] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: 1) I have yet to pass this along to the broader plain of PI alliances via the Assembly hall. This is in the process of happening. The alliance PI carebears I have spoken to in entities that transcend russian, french, former NC, former IT, ghetto pirates, pvpers, wormhole maniacs and the likes, are well and truly fond of the idea. 2) No I do not have direct contact with a Dev for Dust or Eve. But this is an oversight I'm looking to remedy. 3) Thanks for the advice regarding the Assembly Hall. But patients young grasshopper. Even if this Assembly Hall post were made, it would not find it's way onto Sisi overnight. I anticipate the Assembly Hall to try it's best to tear it to shreds, so it's been sitting here in the ideas forums for sometime, smoothing out all the issues and covering all the basics so as to make more people happy than it would have with the initial 1st draft. Even if only 20% of this idea were considered, it would only ever see the light of existence some time after Dust is released, building upon the same technologies that will make fps on eve planets possible. As for the 2.1 version (Which will be posted in teh assembly hall), it will incorporate allot of the feedback collected in this topic, right up to about page 5 at this point in time. My Assembly Hall post is nearing completion if you have an interest in it's progress. I am just considering adding graphics to better convey the idea(s) behind it and how it would integrate with what we currently have. It will also feature a proposed release strategy, indicating what features should be introduced first and in what kind of time frame windows these new mechanisms, additions and dimensions to Eve should be introduced in. Depending on how much effort I want to put into the graphics, the 2.1 version could be posted as early as this weekend. See..., now you rolling. Asuka Solo wrote: I anticipate the Assembly Hall to try it's best to tear it to shreds........ This will put it to the test if it can get hard boiled in the "crucible" Asuka Solo wrote: It will also feature a proposed release strategy, indicating what features should be introduced first and in what kind of time frame windows these new mechanisms, additions and dimensions to Eve should be introduced in. Bad Idea, Dev's don't let it fly to get kick'd out of the Job.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 768	Posted - 2011.11.16 16:33:00 - [129] - Quote Updated the previous post with a table of contents of the 2.1 version. Estimating this idea to equate to a 39 post suggestion at present (without graphics links)
Mapets Combinatul Chimic ROMANIAN-LEGION 0	Posted - 2011.11.16 18:25:00 - [130] - Quote Nice ideea about the PI , not so thrilled about all the planetary stargate thing tho, would make a preaty big part of eve mecanics useless ( cyno, titan bridge , the use for carriers to move ships to campaign locations and not to mention the clone jumping). However, the dust interaction to eve requires that PI neads this 'upgrade' or at least something verry similar. But... for it to be desired and rly have a positive impact in eve , other then creating another gaming world within the eve universe limited to only players that are borred of spinning the ship in hangar and influenced only by those with dreds/titans, the majority of eve players must have a benefit if not a need for it...... and for that i have a thought... As the development of planet colonies/cities wil require and deal with planetary population, development indexes, growth and soo on, why not also add a more direct interaction to the curent eve gameplay and also populate that witch eve players play with mostly .... like the ships ?!... A ship just bought to have a volunteer crew untrained and soo unable to bring the ship to full atributes (like only 75% shield/cap recharge and maby even cpu/powergrid reduction , say only 95% ). A player or member of corp/ally that manages planets to be able to train on civilian flight academy structures ship crews of diferent competence lvls up to say lvl5 on a fully upgraded academy ( maxed crew to bring a ship to +125% ship shield/cap regen and say 105% cpu/powergrid), and be able to sell the trained personel to other players visiting the planet. Limiting access to the planet via personal/corp/ally standings like stations in 0.0 do atm and also have every purchase of crew take the nr from planet population so unable to hire the compleate crew for say 2 titans from 1 planet. This would add the new crew nr and crew competence attributes to all ships in eve, i'm tinking most players in eve wanderd why the ships have soo many lights/windows on them if only the own character is inside no ? :)

Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 9	Posted - 2011.11.16 20:47:00 - [131] - Quote Mapets wrote: Nice ideea about the PI , not so thrilled about all the planetary stargate thing tho, would make a preaty big part of eve mecanics useless ( cyno, titan bridge , the use for carriers to move ships to campaign locations and not to mention the clone jumping). However, the dust interaction to eve requires that PI neads this 'upgrade' or at least something verry similar. But... for it to be desired and rly have a positive impact in eve , other then creating another gaming world within the eve universe limited to only players that are borred of spinning the ship in hangar and influenced only by those with dreds/titans, the majority of eve players must have a benefit if not a need for it...... and for that i have a thought... As the development of planet colonies/cities wil require and deal with planetary population, development indexes, growth and soo on, why not also add a more direct interaction to the curent eve gameplay and also populate that witch eve players play with mostly .... like the ships ?!... A ship just bought to have a volunteer crew untrained and soo unable to bring the ship to full atributes (like only 75% shield/cap recharge and maby even cpu/powergrid reduction , say only 95% ). A player or member of corp/ally that manages planets to be able to train on civilian flight academy structures ship crews of diferent competence lvls up to say lvl5 on a fully upgraded academy ( maxed crew to bring a ship to +125% ship shield/cap regen and say 105% cpu/powergrid), and be able to sell the trained personel to other players visiting the planet. Limiting access to the planet via personal/corp/ally standings like stations in 0.0 do atm and also have every purchase of crew take the nr from planet population so unable to hire the compleate crew for say 2 titans from 1 planet. This would add the new crew nr and crew competence attributes to all ships in eve, i'm tinking most players in eve wanderd why the ships have soo many lights/windows on them if only the own character is inside no ? :) In fact, in the lore, the capsuler is not the only one inside the ship, the crew is there for maintenance duties, and how do they get there? When you assemble the ship they are recruited from the Stations / SMA / Outposts / Capital ship population. But as you are an Allmight demigod capsuler you just don't care about them, and your ship can go well without maintenance, so you can launch a ship into space with 1% of the crew and it still will work for a good fine... but offcoures if you enter an other station your ship will automatically recruit what more is needed for you... The same is said about the Outposts / POS / Custom-Ofices / Comand center population they are there (Inside the modules and pices) they are counted as part of the volume... So if start taking hull damage you also loses part of your crew, and when you overheat a module you will possible kill some too... And when you kill a pirate batleship... Thousands of deaths!!! when you kill a floating structure just to see what will drop, thousands of deaths, that is what a capsuler is.... A immortal Demigod of Death... Also all the main functions of the ship are on the capsule's will, the crew is not an efficiency factor ... So i don't think that the population of the planets will be a main concern since you can say that they are all inside the ship along the 1000m-¦ of the command center, and the rest is just clonned or fly from your ship or from somewhere to the planet when you enter the planetary view... most of the hard work are for the drones and nanites...
Lek Arthie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2011.11.16 22:42:00 - [132] - Quote I dont like terraforming idea, we might end up with 2-3 basic and most profitable planet types. You have those planets live with them. If terraforming is introduced then it should be introduced lightly. Like, terraform a lava planet to have a little better temperature for example. Its still a lava planet it just has better stats, and ofc nothing should be permanent. Terraforming structures for example, when destroyed planet goes back to original.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 771	Posted - 2011.11.17 05:32:00 - [133] - Quote Lek Arthie wrote: I dont like terraforming idea, we might end up with 2-3 basic and most profitable planet types. You have those planets live with them. If terraforming is introduced then it should be introduced lightly. Like, terraform a lava planet to have a little better temperature for example. Its still a lava planet it just has better stats, and ofc nothing should be permanent. Terraforming structures for example, when destroyed planet goes back to original. Just to make sure I understood your post. You want the terraforming structure to be able to change the planet type along a pre-determined path (with regards to making the planet more habitable for civilian populations) that the players can select. And as long as that structure stays intact, fueled and online, the planet will remain the type it was terraformed to. If the structure goes offline, runs out of fuel or is destroyed, the planet starts the reversion cycle back into it's previous (pre-terraforming) state and thus loses it's habitable appeal? I think that is an option. But I think that option is too focused on civilian operations. Your concerned that the initial terraforming idea will allow alliances to take all their gas and barren planets and turn them into plasma worlds, each costing a titan in isk time and resources to begin with. This cost and time factor alone will prevent the mass spamming of key industrial type planets and serve as a much needed isk sink for such large entities to begin with. So yes, while planets will end up being changed into more valuable ones, depending on the goal of the alliance, it will be such a slow, long term and resource heavy process that actual proliferation will take years. This despite the ability of attacking alliances to abort the process by taking out the structures. Your version of the idea will turn all the existing plasma and lava worlds into sprawling metropli (by adjusting their growth/death/migration rates as a result of a more habitable environment), that boost output so much with the bonuses granted by civilian PI networks that it would amount to the same output as a system with 8 plasmas. So there is room for abuse either way, but it will be costly abuse. Don't you think?
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 6	Posted - 2011.11.17 06:21:00 - [134] - Quote Just a couple of points on what has cropped up lately. First, on planetary gates. Given the EvE canon of them not existing to date, it would seem safe to assume that the EvE universe follows similar lines of thought to many other forms of static, "gate-centric" FTL transit. Namely that the gates always seem to by up and fair way away from planets (the Stargate series being one of the best known exceptions to this). Usually the logic given is the need for lower interference from gravity, or some sort of exotic radiation being put out that you don't want to expose a biosphere to. Also, given the established lore or gates having to be located between two stars in a system, it would suggest that they require a certain balance of forces to be acting upon them in order to achieve whatever form of transit they allow (most likely temporary/unstable but directable wormhole/singularity). All of this would preclude any use of gates on planets. Even assuming that such a gate could be constructed however, there are a number of other problems that would need to be tacklked. What about differences in pressure between ends of the gates? Is it one way only, or bi-directional? Are they like space gates and based on a discreet activation system/entity, or are they more like the SG-1 gates? What's to stop a terrorist from linking a bi-directional gate to one in deep space and evacuating the atmosphere on the target planet? A much more canon option might be to ignore the transport of materials entirely, and to opt for a clone system similar to what is already in place. Quantum entangled transmission systems are capable of transmitting the conciousness of a suitably equipped person (like a pod pilot or Dustie) over interstellar distances. It might not be as satisfying as picking up your ball and taking it home with you, but you could still walk out in a huff if a card game goes badly for you. :P As for terraforming, it is at best a slippery slope by way of people and their whims, but is one supported by canon. Korako Kosakami (better known as The Rabbit) has a little chat with a character in one of the novels (I... think the one with the Raven on the cover; where it follows the four different people throughout the book). This chat happens on his own personal planet. Which he had terraformed to his own desires.
Agamenox Yanomami's Space Pilots CONQUISTADORS 0	Posted - 2011.11.17 14:46:00 - [135] - Quote EVE Simcity Really? You want to complex a very complicated game. Maybe the next expantion will not be 514, the next expansion wold be "SIM EVE" or "SPORE EVE", construct the world!
Rabid cat Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.11.17 14:48:00 - [136] - Quote Any idea when is this stuff going to be implemented?
Mapets Combinatul Chimic ROMANIAN-LEGION 0	Posted - 2011.11.17 18:37:00 - [137] - Quote Rabid cat wrote: Any idea when is this stuff going to be implemented? in this formula probably never but but some of the ideas presented in this thread will most most likely be part of the update when dust gets released , and there is no date yet set for that :P
Tarkett Reedster House of Reed Interstellar Defense Force NISYN Inc. 0	Posted - 2011.11.18 02:20:00 - [138] - Quote Overall I love this concept. I'm sorry if they have already been suggested Of coarse I have a few suggestions. 1.) I'd like to see the planetary guns part implemented asap. People are already concerned about being able to defend the new customs office and this would be a great solution. 2.) On a similar note I'd like to see the military structure enable a fixed amount of ground troops that would serve as defending forces (NPC's). I.e. You get 20 command points per military command structure. You can then add a number of tanks, troops, drones, etc based on there command cost. Obviously in order to do this we would need the ability to produce these item, which of curse could sell on the open market to other Capsuleer's or Duster's. The main driving reason behind this is two fold: A. You should be able to defend you cities as with a POS when your not logged on. B. Attacking a "city of the gods" should be the pinnacle mission of a Duster. Where a Duster would face a fortified installation as well as other human players. 3.) The use of mobile command ships as previewed in the dust videos to control additional troops. 4.) Lastly I would like to see the use of space based minerals e.g. Trit used in the construction of these cities creating a symbiotic relationship between the two industries. Thanks this is one of the best threads I've seen in awhile.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 772	Posted - 2011.11.18 04:41:00 - [139] - Quote Tarkett Reedster wrote: Overall I love this concept. I'm sorry if they have already been suggested Of coarse I have a few suggestions. 1.) I'd like to see the planetary guns part implemented asap. People are already concerned about being able to defend the new customs office and this would be a great solution. 2.) On a similar note I'd like to see the military structure enable a fixed amount of ground troops that would serve as defending forces (NPC's). I.e. You get 20 command points per military command structure. You can then add a number of tanks, troops, drones, etc based on there command cost. Obviously in order to do this we would need the ability to produce these item, which of curse could sell on the open market to other Capsuleer's or Duster's. The main driving reason behind this is two fold: A. You should be able to defend you cities as with a POS when your not logged on. B. Attacking a "city of the gods" should be the pinnacle mission of a Duster. Where a Duster would face a fortified installation as well as other human players. 3.) The use of mobile command ships as previewed in the dust videos to control additional troops. 4.) Lastly I would like to see the use of space based minerals e.g. Trit used in the construction of these cities creating a symbiotic relationship between the two industries. Thanks this is one of the best threads I've seen in awhile. 1) The only planetary guns that would be able to shoot that far, would be the anti-capital guns. Sub caps will be beyond reach of the anti-sub cap defenses that protect the city close range. At this point in time, we have not yet indicated that those cap guns would be capable of hitting attacking caps as far out as the customs offices, but I'm sure it would be worth looking into. As for sub caps... would it be fair to allow capsuleers to place anti sub cap defenses on their networks and allow those defenses to attack sub cap pilots who agress the customs offices? It would be like sending frigates up against deathstars.... An idea I'm not opposed to, but my biggest concern is the mass adoption of this big idea as opposed to appeasing just PI farmers. 2) I believe they can do this already as per the suggestion. There are even bounties on these npcs similar to our rats for eve. A) This is the case. Military networks and all defenses use the POS mechanics. You can set who to shoot and under what circumstances to shoot. With regards to anti-cap guns, you can assume control of these. We could look into doing the same for anti-sub cap guns. BUt I think that might end up becoming too overpowered. B) This will hopefully be the case with all the military networks etc that can be setup. 3) CCP will handle this. 4) Minerals will be used to construct items like the PI-hubs, alongside some PI components. But the rest of the City will use isk to be built, as PI does currently. You will however, be able to import minerals and blueprints/ammo/modules down into the City and use the manufacturing facilities that can be setup to construct items for Eve or Dust players, such as modules, ships, components, ammo etc.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 772	Posted - 2011.11.18 04:46:00 - [140] - Quote Rabid cat wrote: Any idea when is this stuff going to be implemented? Assuming this is posted in the assembly hall: Assuming the Assembly hall gives it the thumbs up: Assuming the Assembly hall pushes this tot he top of the next refocus: Assuming the designers at CCP declare it feasible: Assuming they implement it exactly as proposed: Assuming CCP implement it according to the proposed release strategy: We'd start seeing the first bits and pieces of this ometime after Dust is released would be my guess.

Eidolon Nostromo Imperial Collective 0	Posted - 2011.11.18 05:11:00 - [141] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: David Grogan wrote: Quote: Gas: (+3% default rate) 12% population growth rate per downtime 9% death rate per down time i'm not sure this should be in the positive growth rate section living in a gas giant would be extremely taxing on human physiology... from constant storms, the high gravity, high radiation, and insane pressures would make it hard for a population to growth at all. however on barren/ice worlds it would be much easier for a population to grow due to the fact huge biospheres & underground facilities could be built to shield the citizens from radiation. Also the gravity and pressure on these worlds would be much more tolerable. Moons should also be considered for population. Especially moons around gas giants. but aside from that I like your idea alot I was thinking of Bespin (Star Wars) when I was placing the Planets into those groups. Somehow I picture a floating Gas giant installation to be more habitable than some frozen Hoth hellhole. In Bespin you could actually sit on a bench outside and watch the sun go down. Hoth is a different story. But I'm open to swapping those figures around if we could justify it with a valid enough point. As for moons... I am contemplating a post about Moon Interaction and the death of POS based moon mining. Naturally, the same command centers could be used for MI, thus giving rise to moon cities etc. Not only that - there are some practical issues to consider. Gas Worlds are currently the most common and least useful for resource extraction, whereas Ice Planets are arguably more useful. This is even more so when you consider the size of Gas Planets and the difficulty in setting up industrial PI networks. So by making Gas Planets more amenable to civilian development, it helps "rebalance" them vs. other planets.
Eidolon Nostromo Imperial Collective 0	Posted - 2011.11.18 05:15:00 - [142] - Quote I'd like CCP to implement and test these features ASAP, or at least before my sub runs out. It does remind me of a Sci-Fi version of Illyriad, a F2P game i'm currently enjoying. If you're not familiar with it, you might want to take a look, if only to get more ideas. One nice thing about this suggestion is that it allows players interested in PI to focus on quality over quantity. If I hate having to manage multiple networks on multiple planets, I can opt for a "supernetwork" on a single planet instead.
Evenus Battuta 4	Posted - 2011.11.18 11:28:00 - [143] - Quote I like your idea of building cities on planets, I think introducing idea of composition of population will make it more fun. Building different facilities will attract settlers of different races(intaki,amarr,brutor,joven with different bloodline etc), at a rate modified by the resource types, sovereignty,ideology and situation on adjacent planets&moons, providing different outputs and unique traits of the city. You will find it difficult to attract Amarr citizens into Minmatar hinterland but easier near the border. But even if you build cities in nullsec, matched population percentage of Minmatar and Amarr people will cause trouble of unity and public order. Different scale and pattern of the city will give you various valuable special product. A planet of freedom full of diversity including smuggling and crime, or giant kingdom of order? up to you, but not you alone. Fertile land is always full of competition, and other mayors on this planet may find their interest of other form. They either build a city with easier form to organize and exceed you by scale, or just call the help of players in Dust 514... That will totally make eve a different game.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 780	Posted - 2011.11.18 18:45:00 - [144] - Quote Evenus Battuta wrote: I like your idea of building cities on planets, I think introducing idea of composition of population will make it more fun. Building different facilities will attract settlers of different races(intaki,amarr,brutor,joven with different bloodline etc), at a rate modified by the resource types, sovereignty,ideology and situation on adjacent planets&moons, providing different outputs and unique traits of the city. You will find it difficult to attract Amarr citizens into Minmatar hinterland but easier near the border. But even if you build cities in nullsec, matched population percentage of Minmatar and Amarr people will cause trouble of unity and public order. Different scale and pattern of the city will give you various valuable special product. A planet of freedom full of diversity including smuggling and crime, or giant kingdom of order? up to you, but not you alone. Fertile land is always full of competition, and other mayors on this planet may find their interest of other form. They either build a city with easier form to organize and exceed you by scale, or just call the help of players in Dust 514... That will totally make eve a different game. Your on to something there. But, how will it work and or what would the benefit or difference between the various bloodlines be in terms of populations? If the answer is none, then there is no real point in having it. This suggestion will at no point attempt to demand that CCP generate or display any of these populations npc for npc. That would lag us all to hell. So we will never see these populations, they will forever be numbers attached to our PI, the same way isk is displayed and attached to our wallet. If say on the other hand, that: Minmatar type civilians granted additional bonus to the industrial capacity of industrial PI buildings Caldari Civlians granted a tax bonus to Civlian PI Gallente civilians granted a service or entertainment delivery bonus or something to social PI Amarr civilians granted a military bonus or something to military PI Then this would be well worth pursuing and developing further. And how would the civilian populations be distributed? Would we attach the type of civilians that are attracted to the City on to who the sovereignty owner is? i.e Amarr sovereignty in hi-sec would attract the 3 Amarr blood lines. Amarr low sec would attract the Amarr pirate factions And so on and so forth. Thoughts on that?
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 780	Posted - 2011.11.18 19:07:00 - [145] - Quote Corazani wrote: Just a couple of points on what has cropped up lately. First, on planetary gates. Given the EvE canon of them not existing to date, it would seem safe to assume that the EvE universe follows similar lines of thought to many other forms of static, "gate-centric" FTL transit. Namely that the gates always seem to by up and fair way away from planets (the Stargate series being one of the best known exceptions to this). Usually the logic given is the need for lower interference from gravity, or some sort of exotic radiation being put out that you don't want to expose a biosphere to. Also, given the established lore or gates having to be located between two stars in a system, it would suggest that they require a certain balance of forces to be acting upon them in order to achieve whatever form of transit they allow (most likely temporary/unstable but directable wormhole/singularity). All of this would preclude any use of gates on planets. Even assuming that such a gate could be constructed however, there are a number of other problems that would need to be tacklked. What about differences in pressure between ends of the gates? Is it one way only, or bi-directional? Are they like space gates and based on a discreet activation system/entity, or are they more like the SG-1 gates? What's to stop a terrorist from linking a bi-directional gate to one in deep space and evacuating the atmosphere on the target planet? A much more canon option might be to ignore the transport of materials entirely, and to opt for a clone system similar to what is already in place. Quantum entangled transmission systems are capable of transmitting the conciousness of a suitably equipped person (like a pod pilot or Dustie) over interstellar distances. It might not be as satisfying as picking up your ball and taking it home with you, but you could still walk out in a huff if a card game goes badly for you. :P As for terraforming, it is at best a slippery slope by way of people and their whims, but is one supported by canon. Korako Kosakami (better known as The Rabbit) has a little chat with a character in one of the novels (I... think the one with the Raven on the cover; where it follows the four different people throughout the book). This chat happens on his own personal planet. Which he had terraformed to his own desires. Always a pleasure reading your feedback and being challenged by it. 1) We'd have to establish if planetary stargates would be FTL based, or inter-dimensional with regards to the method of transport. In the event that they were FTL, we'd need direct line of sight between transport points, or risk colliding with a celestial at light speed, which wont end well for both entities. Hence a FTL mechanism would be restricted to inter solar system travel from planet to planet only. If on the other hand, it were inter-dimensional, we could have PI stargates transport items or players beyond the solar system, to neighboring systems as line of sight, celestial objects or exogenous forces would no longer be of any concern. Following that, we'd have to establish what would be more feasible and less-abusable/more costly for larger alliances. To run a fuel system with a range limit, or have a recharge mechanism such as a capacitor with a mass limitation either way. 2) I have already included a planetary jump clone mechanism with the social PI segment in the PI 2.1 proposal I will be posting in the Assembly hall soon enough. 3) To omit the transport of goods (in a limited quantity or otherwise) via such gates would effectively render PI gates as a useless mechanic and thus a void suggestion not worthy of being entertained as an idea at all.
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 8	Posted - 2011.11.19 05:14:00 - [146] - Quote Something else that just occured to me on the planetary gate front, is that if they were capable of transporting goods/persons, they would likely be connected to other planets/systems controlled by the controlling pilot. This would make them incredible important strategic targets for any mercenary operations funded as part of a (trade) war between pilots. As for the actual mechanics/transport limits on them, it would actually make sense in both a rules and story manner to have them based on position. Need a timer for "cooldown" between allowed transports. Well guess what: Fakeworldia II and IV only line up for a usable tranmit window once every twelve hours. As a shiny new target to shoot at, players could install an orbital transmission booster array to alter/shorten this cooldown period, but it would still happen at some point or another due to relative position/occulsion by stellar objects/radiation surges in the sytem (or some other hand-wavium reason). For transportation range: perhaps a cue could be taken from the already existing PI skills. Each rank/transmit system upgrade would allow for an additional range of access, all the way up to region wide. Of course, to be able to support a region-spaning PI trade network, you'd have to have invested a fair bit to get to such a point...
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 782	Posted - 2011.11.19 05:30:00 - [147] - Quote So this implies more anchor-able/place-able buildings and skills, alongside investment into cities to enable this infrastructure for a limited time. We could introduce timers and perhaps even evemail notifications for corp members and or alliance members (a selectable option of course) that could inform them of approaching or closing windows of opportunity for these PI gates, in addition to which locations these gates can allow travel to. But this begs the question, do we impose a mass limitation? If so, what would be classify as the cut off? So the range of these gates could be influenced by a skill and the availability of other networks with gates on them controlled by the same player, or a corp member/alliance member. And the mass limitations per window could be dictated by a combination of a skill and an anchor-able building or a PI building. However, in order for these stargates to be a target, Dust players would have to be able to persistently camp them and survive outside of war contracts like eve players can. So we'd have to setup a game mechanic whereby dust players could persistently camp eve players (and thus other dust players) using these planetary gates, in addition to allowing eve players to engage these gates from their ships and for Dust vs Dust games to see and or capture/destroy these installations. Thus we'd have game scenarios whereby: Eve shoots at Dust Dust shoots at Eve Eve shoots at Eve Dust shoots at Dust
Akane Mishima Cult of Baal 0	Posted - 2011.11.19 07:32:00 - [148] - Quote I actually live off PI and PVP and I can say this.... this sounds pretty amazing. Right now PI is pretty cookie cutter, make POS Fuel = profit. I'd like to see more depth in PI but something else I'd like to see is being able to rent out temporary facilities. So lets say Ive got 15 planets in a lowsec system. However my alliance suddenly decided to pack up and leave. It would be awesome to be able to contract out my entire 15 planet setup that can maintain a 12.5k Coolant per day setup and either have someone permanently buy it from me, or rent it out to someone for a limited time with them paying me on a daily basis for a certain value depending on how much potential profit there is. Of course this would mean I wouldnt be able to build a new set of 15 planets however I think it would be a cool living to sell people, corps or even alliances awesome setups like the ones Ive made in the past. Im really good with PI and I know how to build settlements very efficiently, It would be nice to be able to capitalize on that knowledge and make a few isk here and there.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 782	Posted - 2011.11.19 09:36:00 - [149] - Quote Social PI While refining PI 2.0, the idea of player slots for player owned buildings was put forth and developed. This idea gave birth to the notion that stations can be put on planets. Player A can setup a factory, a lab, a medical facility for jumps clones, a repair shop, a bar, a casino, a shop, a star port, houses with apartments and even larger market and entertainment hubs, for other players to use and exploit. Alternatively, these social PI networks can provide slots that individuals, corporations or alliances can rent and use for whatever reason. No more setting up outposts to enable slot usage outside of a POS. Up until now, owning property in Eve was limited to a POS on some moon, or an outpost in a system with sovereignty. This goal is beyond the reach of allot of new players and smaller corporations. And thus Social PI was born, from the combination of the ideas of true player driven planetary interaction with other players and the real estate question. So how will social PI be different from Civilian, Industrial or Military PI? Well, Civilian PI will be taxpayer farms, with buildings that give rise to large npc populations and bonuses to industrial and military PI operations. Military PI will be planetary defences via turrets, goodies for Dust mercs, links for travel and the means to control movement of players and goods between networks. Industrial PI will remain largely as is, with the exception of a few new buildings and mechanisms made available to network owners. Social PI by contrast will contain none of these elements and will instead focus on allowing players to rent slots from network owners, or setup their own property on their own networks that can be opened to the rest of the eve player base (at a cost of course). Any actual habitable and explore-able areas that PI 2.1 will bring to Eve, will be built using SPI. Planetary markets, promenades, apartments, star ports, transport hubs, factories, bars, casinos, stadiums, arenas, storage facilities, corporate and alliance hangers, laboratories, training facilities, med labs etc, will all be made available as constructible building types for social PI networks. Naturally, these buildings will not come cheap; some will require unique monthly operational licences and some isk payments for rent etc. Once these buildings have been constructed on the network, players will be able to land in star ports or jump clone to a planetary medical facility located in the cities and proceed to explore (or live on) the social networks within the city. Even the markets for planets will be based off goods that are sold within the various market stalls of a city. If players want to sell multiple goods in their stores, they are welcome to but will end up paying tax for each type. If players choose to specialize in making and selling certain items, power to them. Regardless, items will end up as sold per category similar to the Eve markets. If the planet does not have any items, it will show space stock and vice versa. If on the other hand, the solar system has stock from both planets and an outpost in the system, then the market will show buy and sell orders for both locations. Social Networks will thus become the player driven center of all cities, that would eventually become explorable with your characters. The surrounding civilian, industrial and military PI networks owned by players of the city will become their GÇ£cropsGÇ¥ so to speak, that agressors who have nothing better to do than inflict mass damage and economic ruin on their foes can burn to the ground with enough firepower. This will add a whole new dimension to space conquests and provide a much needed sense of urgency in having fleets of ships actually protect space and not just give it away when they lose a strategic system or a single battle. For fleeing the field and giving the enemy ground would give them free rein to ruin allot of playerGÇÖs livelihoods. Evacuation from those cities and networks will be possible, similar to outpost evacuations, as military PI networks with shield generators will have reinforcement mode for the shields and defences to keep attackers at bay, if there are enough defences on the grid.
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 8	Posted - 2011.11.19 13:38:00 - [150] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: But this begs the question, do we impose a mass limitation? If so, what would be classify as the cut off? So the range of these gates could be influenced by a skill and the availability of other networks with gates on them controlled by the same player, or a corp member/alliance member. And the mass limitations per window could be dictated by a combination of a skill and an anchor-able building or a PI building. However, in order for these stargates to be a target, Dust players would have to be able to persistently camp them and survive outside of war contracts like eve players can. So we'd have to setup a game mechanic whereby dust players could persistently camp eve players (and thus other dust players) using these planetary gates, in addition to allowing eve players to engage these gates from their ships and for Dust vs Dust games to see and or capture/destroy these installations. Thus we'd have game scenarios whereby: Eve shoots at Dust Dust shoots at Eve Eve shoots at Eve Dust shoots at Dust Possibly as an alternative to a mass limit would be a volume per unit time limit (especially if there is going to be some form of finite window available). After all, you can only physically cram so much through a gate/fit so much on the transfer pad at once (I'm thinking the "Let's go to Atlantis" boarding scene from SG-1/SGA where everybody lined up carrying/pushing gear and just kept going). Like several other things you could set up a queue of stuff to transfer that went automatically once it was set until it hit the window close. If paired with the orbital tranmission booster idea, this would dovetail nicely into the Eve/Dust link, where a combined force would be needed to really embargo a planet. Eve-side to blow the transmitter network and cut down your window, and then Dust-mercs to go and "cap the flag" of the physical gate location to actually prevent its use. Another potential way to allow an interaction would be some kind of anchorable "blockade unit" within Eve space that generates a gravity/distortion/white noise field that would prevent/make difficult the transmission process. So you wouldn't need Dust mercs, but there would need to be some kind of timer/other cost (and who really just loves protecting SBUs now? >.>) For the Eve shooting at Dust side of things... the only thing I can really think of would be to either have bots in Dust (which could just be really fail...) or to allow Eve players to deploy mecha-killbots into Dust situations that are scary enough to actually be able to take/hold the gates. Their programming would have to be really simple (along the lines of "Take and hold gate. Patrol around within 100m after that") to limit their functionality for other purposes and not take away the special effectiveness of Dusties, but if anyone has better ideas, please speak up :)

SehrGute NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred 4	Posted - 2011.11.19 16:48:00 - [151] - Quote +1 just posting to show my support (have to admit, I haven read all), love the concept of simcity in space, remained me of a old 4x game; imperium galatica 2. and i hope ccp take a note of this. it would be grate if eve braked even more horizons.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 782	Posted - 2011.11.19 17:56:00 - [152] - Quote This post is a continuation from the Social PI post [Part 1 of 3] Buildings for Social PI: Command Center (Upgrade-able) -(Same power grid and CPU bonuses as Civ/Ind/Mil centers) -Level 0 (5 slots) -Level 1 (10 slots) -Level 2 (15 slots) -Level 3 (20 slots) -Level 4 (25 slots) -Level 5 (30 slots) Links - Links = Roads and connections that allow travel between buildings/Slots. No links, no happiness. Housing blocks (Upgrade-able) -Housing blocks are single slot based buildings that allow a number of players to setup GÇ£apartmentsGÇ¥ inside. These apartments are glorified CQs that players can either own, or rent to renters/pets at a nominal fee per month. The number of Apartments that a housing block can sustain is dependent on the level of the housing block. -Level 0 (0 apartment slots) -Level 1 (20 apartment slots) -Level 2 (40 apartment slots) -Level 3 (60 apartment slots) -Level 4 (80 apartment slots) -Level 5 (100 apartment slots) Apartments -Apartments are capsuleer own-able CQs on a planetary network that can be built or rented within apartment block slots. Naturally they will look different from the space based CQs since they could actually have windows etc. Each apartment block will have its own personal hanger per pilot/owner just as stations do currently. Planets will not be provided personalized storage space outside of apartments or alliance warehouses. Promenades (Upgrade-able) -Promenades serve no function save for beautification. The player can select the kind of visual path layouts and designs that will be visible when wandering social PI networks, with regards to the styling and what kind of areas are available. In short, the promenade ends up becoming the look and feel of the city outside and in between the various player-owned buildings. This building type will be purely for the pursuit of immersion, as the level of promenade in use will add a number of wandering NPCs and flying vehicles to give the city that GÇ£itGÇÖs aliveGÇ¥ feel. -Level 0 (5 NPCs on the whole network) -Level 1 (25 NPCs + 1 flying vehicles on the whole network) -Level 2 (45 NPCs + 5 flying vehicles on the whole network) -Level 3 (65 NPCs + 25 flying vehicles on the whole network) -Level 4 (85 NPCs + 50 flying vehicles on the whole network) -Level 5 (100 NPCs + 75 flying vehicles on the whole network) Star ports (Upgrade-able) -Star Ports will enable players to land or dock with the planetary network with their spaceships. It will be a publically open facility and display all of the ships docked on the network from other players. This will become the default (and only) ship spinning screen for planets. Each Star Port will have a limit of active ships it can allow docked (depending on the level of the star port). Docked active ships pertain to active pilots with ships in the star port. So while each player can have multiple ships in their hangers, they can only have 1 active ship at a time. These ships become persistent. So if a player is docked on a star port and they logoffski, their ships will remain visible (and as such, can be stolen or damaged during attack without the proper protection mechanisms in place). The same scenario applies if a player has a ship in the star port and jump clones to a station on the other side of Eve. As of this post, sub-capitals and capital ships alike can land on star ports. Supers cannot. -Level 0 (25 ship port) -Level 1 (50 ship port) -Level 2 (75 ship port) -Level 3 (100 ship port) -Level 4 (125 ship port) -Level 5 (150 ship port) Bank - Social Banks will differ from civilian NPC banks in the sense that these structures can provide loans to players. Player A sets up a bank on the social network. This bank will not belong to a NPC faction, but will be owned by the corporation/alliance the owner is in. This allows the CEOs and Directors to set the interest & tax rates for their own banks. The bank is linked to corporation (dedicated) or alliance (Executor Corporation) wallet division. All loans will become contracts between the player that initiates the loan and the corporation wallet the bank is linked to. Alliances can setup dedicated corporations with a set amount of isk in its wallet specifically for banking operations as a failsafe, or if they are feeling brave and lucky, link the banks to the main executor corporation wallet. The loan duration can be selected from the list of timeframes for the contract from the contract drop down menus, alongside the amount desired. - Once a player has selected an amount and duration, the alliance interest rate is applied and is due, along with the money borrowed at the end of the specified timeframe. Once the player confirms the contract, the money is withdrawn from the applicable corporation wallet division and paid into the player wallet. The contract is binding and persistent. So even if a trail character takes out the loan and then fades into history with 2 bil in isk, the isk is automatically deducted from the player who took out the contract, alongside the owed interest when the contract runs out. This will put player wallets into negative values if they do not have the isk, regardless if the character is deleted or inactive. So if you just need that 20 mil for a new battle cruiser or if you need 2 bil for a faction fitted Capital with the intention and capability to repay said loan, the player alliance driven planetary banking sector is there to service your isk needs.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 782	Posted - 2011.11.19 17:58:00 - [153] - Quote [Part 2 of 3] Medical Facility - Similar to the medical facilities on outposts, these medical facilities on planets will enable clones to be upgraded, serve as GÇ£home stationsGÇ¥ for spawning clones and allow players to install jump clones (at a cost or not as per the choice of the facility owner). Bar - Bars will house NPC mission agents, introduce social atmosphere with music jukeboxes that contain pilot selected play lists and songs that can be generated using real world music, as well as facilitate the alcoholic needs of pod pilots throughout new Eden. Players can charge a premium user fee for all the agents located in bars and so doing, create a passive revenue stream from allowing other players/corporations/alliances to run your missions. Agents for bars can be purchased from the LP stores of the various factions. Agents from levels 1 -> 5 will be seeded at a unique cost per agent level in terms of isk and LP required. Purchasing an agent will ask you to select a bar or pleasure hub to send the agent to (as this item will not be trade-able on the Eve market). Similar to the slot setup for research or manufacturing jobs, the player selects a bar and clicks on the install button. The agent appears at the specified location upon installation, ready to start dishing out missions for your area. Casino -Casinos will be similar to bars and pleasure hubs, with the exception that players can setup betting contracts with the bookies in casinos. The bookie will be an NPC agent that will enable players to bet on the outcomes of Hi-sec/Low-sec war decs, 0.0 based sovereignty disputes and fleet battles in addition to other 3rd party gambling mechanisms and games such as Eve holdem. All money placed in bets are locked into contracts. If say the sovereignty war ends with party B taking sov within a specified date/time range as stipulated on the gambling contract, then the person(s) who were closest to the actual outcomes in terms of a margin, will win the contract and thus the isk from all other gamblers. Pleasure hub - Similar to Bars (can also store agents), but with exotic dancers, strippers and a more R-rated atmosphere. Research Laboratory - Similar to POS based research lab. Import materials and blueprints from space and setup the job accordingly. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job or make the service free as per existing POS mechanics. Repair shop - Similar to outpost based repair shop. Repair costs in isk are fixed and not changeable, using the same rates and costs as empire space. This building is publically accessible to everybody in the city. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per purchase or make the service free as per 0.0 mechanics. Nex Store - Similar to outpost based Nex store. Nex item costs in Aur are fixed and not changeable. This building is publically accessible to everybody in the city. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per purchase. LP Store - Similar to outpost based LP store. Upon installing the LP store, players have to select which faction this LP store will be aligned to (This is a standings related mechanism and pirate faction LP stores can be built). LP store item costs are fixed and not changeable. This building is publically accessible to everybody in the city. Owners can charge a nominal isk/tax fee per purchase. Corporation Office Park (Upgradeable) -A corporation office is similar to the outpost offices, allowing the renting of corporate hangers -Level 0 (1 office slots) -Level 1 (10 office slots) -Level 2 (20 office slots) -Level 3 (30 office slots) -Level 4 (40 office slots) -Level 5 (50 office slots) Storage Facility (general) - Players can rent tabs in the storage facility to place their goods since planets will not have personal storage hangers like stations do. Renting this space will cost the player a nominal fee per month. Warehouse (Alliance) - Massive alliance only hangers. All alliance corporations will have access to this storage facility. Refinery - Similar to outpost based refinery. This building is publicly accessible to everybody in the city. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee for use, or a % cut of the minerals being refined. Market - This building enables players to sell and buy items via the planet and ties in the planetary market with the space market. If no market is present on the network, no items can be sold or purchased from the planet. Subsequently, a tax can be levied on all items sold/purchased via a planetary market. Transportation Hub - If you have no ship on the planet, this structure will allow intercity travel on the planet using planetary vehicles and public transport. This process, for the time being, is similar to jump clones, whereby travel is instantaneous. You can only travel from city to city using this mechanism. It does not allow you to travel to other planets or other solar systems. This hub also allows the movement of items and materials from one city to another if you cannot be asked to move it yourself, for a nominal fee per m3 of course.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 782	Posted - 2011.11.19 18:00:00 - [154] - Quote [Part 3 of 3] Small Shipyard - Similar to POS based small ship assembly arrays. Import materials + blueprints and install the job. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job or make the service free as per existing 0.0 POS/outpost mechanics. Can construct shuttles, frigates and destroyers. Medium Shipyard - Similar to POS based medium ship assembly arrays. Import materials + blueprints and install the job. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job or make the service free as per existing 0.0 POS/outpost mechanics. Can construct cruisers, battle cruisers and industrial ships. Large Shipyard - Similar to POS based large ship assembly arrays. Import materials + blueprints and install the job. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job or make the service free as per existing 0.0 POS/outpost mechanics. Can construct Battleships, Orcas and POS based modules. XL Shipyard - Similar to POS based XL ship assembly arrays. Import materials + blueprints and install the job. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job or make the service free as per existing 0.0 POS/outpost mechanics. Can construct Freighters, Carriers and Dreadnoughts. These buildings can only be built in low sec, 0.0 and whs. General Factory - Similar to outpost and POS based manufacturing lines. These buildings allow the construction of t1 capital components, modules, weapons, medium, low slots, drones, ammunition, rigs or any other t1 item that has a BPO seeded on the market. Import the blueprint + materials and setup the job. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job. This building cannot produce t2 or t3 items Advanced Factory - Similar to the general factory. This building can only produce t2 and t3 items. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job. This building cannot produce t1 items Drug Laboratory - Similar to POS based drug lab. Import materials and blueprints from space and setup the job accordingly. Owners can charge a nominal isk fee/tax per job or make the service free as per existing POS mechanics. Power Plant - If present on the network, it provides power to all slots/buildings via links. If there is no active power plant on the network if it has no links to the other slots, or if the power plant is destroyed by invading forces, all slot based buildings and facilities go offline and cannot be used. Communications Facility -While the cities will be in a solar system with local (or not if its in whs), the planet itself will not have a local channel. To this end, players docked on planets will show up on local in space, but players in space will not be visible to players on the planets, nor will other players on planets be able to see or chat to each other outside of corp/alliance/public channels. The communications facility will uplink to the solar system local and show all users active within the system. The facility can also allow the modification of the local settings, to be instant (like Empire) or delayed (like WHS). Bounty Office - Allows access to the existing outpost bounty office from planets. Faction Warfare Office -Alliances or corporations that want to bring the Empire Faction War to areas of low-sec and 0.0 where it has not yet spread to, need only build a single faction warfare office. This office will spawn the needed space based FW bunkers that Eve players fight over, in addition to creating a FW LP store within the FW Office. In addition, if a FW Office is present on the planet with a Bar or Pleasure hub, FW agents can be purchased from the FW LP stores and placed in either the FW Office, the Bars or Pleasure hubs of choice on the applicable planet(s). The Empire Factions will subsidise the Customs Office each month with a payout from the Faction warfare isk pool. This pool is funded by the tax from the number of PI Cities located in FW space (Hisec and Low). All the tax paid from these cities end up in the faction tax pool and each month, the faction automatically pays out some dividends to all the FW corps and FW Office owners from this pool. Thus, the more cities each empire faction controls via FW, the more funding the cities and FW corps receive to continue the war effort for that faction.
Screenlag Beyond The Gates Tri Sol Syndicate 3	Posted - 2011.11.20 17:22:00 - [155] - Quote Had your idea been reality when I moved into a WH about a year ago I would have been very happy. This sounds like something that would change PI from tedious clicking to something more interesting, even if it's still just clicking to be done. What PI needs is interaction and progress, and I believe you've just presented a very good way to implement that
Ta Mo 0	Posted - 2011.11.22 15:06:00 - [156] - Quote With features like this I would definitelly bring more people into eve. Just imagine...... governing your own towns and cities.....your own district ......a planet ..... hmmmm.....
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 14	Posted - 2011.11.23 04:48:00 - [157] - Quote We absolutely need a new PI system for now!!!! hurry up with dust DEVS!!! and hurry up with PI!!!!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 788	Posted - 2011.11.23 05:19:00 - [158] - Quote I have to admit, now that CCP allowed customs offices to deny access based on standings, it's really going to hurt allot of the individual & small time PI producers in New Eden. This move has made PI yet another techmoon based resource reserved for the largest 0.0 and wh alliances, with said alliances being the major producers of PI goods on the market in the future. Expect to see the market come under pressure from increased price fluctuation and volatility as a result of this, steadily driving the prices of raw ores and finished goods into the stratosphere. low-sec and hi-sec PI now need a buff in my opinion, with regards to planetary yields. I would expect to see hi-sec planets dish out allot of green zones instead of the nothing/odd spot of blue they do now, while low sec could even give out yellow zones. This would help allot of people to retain the use of PI for passive income instead of having to make the switch from mining for raw materials free of charge to making a measly 10-20 mil profit a month if they move to hi-sec and buy raw materials for factory planets. So the time for a PI revamp is drawing even closer and we can expect more moaning topics to pop up regarding PI.
Captain Africa GRIM MARCH SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7	Posted - 2011.11.23 13:35:00 - [159] - Quote Not much of a PI pilot but +1 for your effort and idea ....for someone thats into this it could add huge extended EVE value.
Lek Arthie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.11.23 22:25:00 - [160] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: [quote=Lek Arthie] Don't you think? What im about is something like this. lets take lava planets again. If you scan felsic magma you will its concentrated on hot spots, and i mean actual lava spots on the planet. Here comes terraforming, you increase the temperature of the lava planet thus increasing those lava spots, thus increasing felsic magma. Terraforming wont change the planet type. It will just improve planet stats. Ofc the terraforming result will not be permanent. A structure will keep this result active, and through dust etc it can be destroyed.

Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction 856	Posted - 2011.11.23 23:09:00 - [161] - Quote Just caught up with this topic and my basic feeling is ... Do it. This is what PI should have been about from the beginning. CSM please put this in front for the CCP management and get a team assigned to making this happen. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting!
Mungo Lloyd So long and thx for all the fish 1	Posted - 2011.11.23 23:35:00 - [162] - Quote I haven't read it all yet, but up to now it sounds really great. Ideas like this have been brewing in my mind lately, but I never really got to the point of penning them down.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 40	Posted - 2011.11.24 01:47:00 - [163] - Quote Firstly... wow. Just wow. Despite making most of my ISK off PI, I did not see this thread until you linked it in the Assembly Hall, since I don't follow Features & Ideas. I look forward to further iteration of this concept with interest! That said, in reading over all of this, I did come up with quite a few ideas and comments, and thus have formulated a rather lengthy reply... which I've broken down into multiple posts, for convenience. Relevant to the Industrial side... mining planets for Ice is definitely a worthwhile idea, and is very much supported! Of course, Ice is huge. What kind of cycle time are we talking, here? Even your proposed corporate hangars can't hold all that much of it. Speaking of those hangars, storage facilities that are actually useful are a major plus; it would save huge amounts of time if you could simply pile lots of resources into a warehouse and let your factories run, rather then having to fly in twice daily to restock your factories. That said, for this to be really useful, there should definitely be some way of streamlining transfers between your ship in orbit and the warehouses on the ground; it'd be really obnoxious to have to transfer everything from your ship, to a hangar in the customs office, to the storage facilities at the starport, to the warehouse... and then back again once it's been processed by your facilities on the ground. It would still be an improvement over having to make the existing runs as frequently as is presently required... but it's less good then it could be, and more clicking for the sake of clicking isn't necessary, here, not when there's so many other awesome things you could be doing with this system. Similarly, it'd be nice if the click burden of changing a planet-full of Advanced Industrial Facilities to use a different schematic could be reduced. At present, you need to individually click into each facility, scroll through a menu each time, route the new good to the launchpad, and then route each of the new resources individually back to each factory. That's bad design, really; it should be possible to simply select all the factories, tell them all at once to change schematics, all at once to route their products to the launchpad, and all at once to route their ingredients from the launchpad. Or, better yet, routing to/from a warehouse. That said, I don't think it's very appropriate for PI structures to exactly duplicate the functionality of station/POS-side manufacturing and research slots. Doing so would be a major disincentive to the use of POS's and Outposts, and there's no reason to arbitrarily wreck their functionality by introducing a replacement, even if it is a 'less efficient' replacement. On the other hand... planetary research facilities that can produce Datacores? Sure, that's a new feature, and would totally be worth including in the game, as opposed to the current, clunky system of running through research agents. Provided that it had similar requirements in terms of player skills, and that it in some way could scale to the skill levels possessed by the players in question, that would work just fine, especially for players not all that interested in PI that want slow, easy ISK. This would, of course, probably destroy the Datacore market, so to prevent it from being a massacre, I'd be inclined to recommend some sort of resource consumption to keep the research facilities running, thereby setting a base price to the value of the cores. Off the top of my head, I recommend Heavy Water, since it's already the 'CPU' ice resource (thus making it thematic for any place requiring lots of computing power), and it's highly under-used, compared with it's cousin Liquid Ozone... and will only become more common, as planetary ice mines get going.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 40	Posted - 2011.11.24 01:48:00 - [164] - Quote Relevant to the Civilian side... I'd highly recommend that there be some kind of passenger transport ships involved. Particularly in weird, out-of-the-way places like wormholes, it doesn't make much sense that people can just spring up or leave of their own accord. I'd suggest a system where, in order to add civilians to the population of a planet, you need to first get them from somewhere... probably, you'll pay money to purchase employment contracts (or slaves!) from some more populous planet, and then load your people up into a passenger ship to bring them out to the planet you're trying to colonize. Once they're there, you just unload them (presuming adequate facilities exist), and they'll get right to work. Once the city is up and running, if conditions are bad, then the people will, out of the wages you're paying them, start putting a portion of that money towards a 'get me off this rock' fund, which will exist as a sort of mini-mission that anyone with a passenger transport can take. The destination will be some randomly-chosen (but probably not too-distant) other world with good conditions. Alternatively, anyone at such a world can simply hire away the disaffected workers, paying a price as normal. For that matter, a population of would-be migrants will exist on almost every populated world, and the happier they are, the higher their rates will be. Slaves, of course, are relatively cheap regardless, but are illegal in certain places, and less effective at their jobs then free workers. At least they don't try to migrate on their own. Relevant to integrating the Civilian side with the other components... nothing you build, anywhere, really needs workers. Technology exists to fully automate basically everything. That said, it's very expensive to have everything fully automated. At the very least, you'll want a few technicians on hand to keep the automated systems running, and manually adjust for unforeseen circumstances. Essentially, if you're the only one working a planet, running your facilities on a dead world with no civilian population at all, and opt not to support a small group of techs with regular supplies of things like wages, food, water, and oxygen (note: to ease on logistics, make 'supply packets' somewhere to support this sort of operation, same as the POS-based fuel pellets)... then you will, instead, have to pay a maintenance penalty of some sort, and your cycles will run slower then a comparable facility. If you do meet the minimum staffing requirements, then you save on the maintenance costs of automation (to encourage use, this should wind up being somewhat cheaper), and your cycles will run at base speed. Alternatively, you can hit a higher level of staffing, keeping all your facilities filled up with grunt labor and replacing a lot of the expensive automation with human labor. This is also expensive (less so if you use slaves... grunt work being exactly what they're for in this context); but it's somewhat more productive then the automation, so the costs may justify the extra expense. Which option you go for will depend mostly on local conditions... if other people on the planet (or possibly you!) are running cities, and have unassigned workers available, then instead of needing to ship in all the resources yourself, you can simply join one of the cities, pay the city owner a certain fee for use of their life support systems, and pay their workers a certain rate for their labor. This is far more efficient then everyone shipping in their own supplies. You can extend this same concept to non-Industrial facilities... except that non-Industrial facilities can't be fully automated. The whole 'Rogue Drone' thing scares people too much for them to want AI systems controlling their military facilities, so you have to have some soldier-types on hand for any of those to work at all. Similarly, people aren't terribly impressed by robot bartenders, so you need humans on hand to run social facilities, as well.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 40	Posted - 2011.11.24 01:49:00 - [165] - Quote Relevant to the planets themselves... not all planets are created equal. Individual planets, even within a given type, should have very different statistics creating environments more or less amenable to human life. This will affect the population growth/death/migration rates, as well as the maintenance costs of everything you're running. There are ways to mitigate the impact of all this... Barren worlds, for instance, are much more habitable once you're put up radiation shields and excavated underground living spaces... and having the appropriate sorts of extra life-support facilities on-hand will serve to mitigate the environmental costs for the cities they support. If that's not enough for you, there's always terraforming... but it's not especially feasible, or profitable, to expect a gas giant to just randomly become some other kind of world; you have to work with what you're given. Terraforming is a long-term investment, where you pay lots of money and resources to slowly change the planet's statistics in a positive way (ISK sink writ large). The faster you're pushing things, and the further beyond base conditions you're trying to change the planet, the more expensive it gets. This isn't something you can accomplish in mere months; it should take years to actually change a planet from one type to another, if such is possible at all. If you're well-organized in your investing, though, and have participation from all parties involved, you can certainly change a given planet for the better, shaving off some of the more extreme edges of it's bad features, making for less maintenance costs and more profit. That said, doing terrible things to a world, like heavy orbital bombardment with Doomsday superweapons and such, would (though militarily effective) be bad for the long-term profitability of a world, effectively un-terraforming it to a certain degree. There may be other ways to sabotage a world... say, having a Stealth Bomber or similar vessel loaded with either Viral Agents (or, more likely, a Tailored Bioweapon derived from such products) or just old-fashioned nukes bomb the world. It should be possible to defend against such hit-and-run attacks, but for ideal defensive measures to require some advanced systems in place. Of course, nuking a world in the middle of a fight is easier then nuking one that's not under threat, since there'll be nothing else for the land-based defense systems to shoot at, if you're the only one attacking. And a solo bombing run is a tricky thing for your bomber to pull off, if you're alone in hostile space, since you'll have to drop down into the atmosphere and drop your cloak for a while to pull it off... Relevant to cities, and to military development... I agree with what you're saying about the Civilian/Industrial difference. Ideally, you'll want cities to be a cooperative effort, with the civilian and industrial players sharing resources and working together. That said, Military facilities seem orthogonal to all that. Both the Civilian and the Industrial players will have an interest in defending their properties, and even if they are integrated into cities and sharing resources, both have a stake in any battles that arise, and both should have the opportunity to contribute to the defense. I would recommend that Military command centers be entirely separate from the Civilian/Industrial networks. Anyone who has any of the other types of command centers active should also be able to drop a Military command center, and add as many defenses as they feel the need to add, maintaining them to whatever degree their paranoia and-or good sense demand. Maybe this means that one person will go overboard and build a level-5 Military Command Center, with full planetary shields and anti-orbital guns and all sorts of hardware, while everyone else huddles in the shadow of his paranoia... or perhaps, there'll be a defense composed of a variety of independent operators, aligned in a loose coalition to resist outside influence, and which might end up going belly-up if one guy decides to screw over his neighbors, drop out of the coalition, and hire mercs to claim the rest. All kinds of interesting things might happen here... but they won't be nearly as interesting if everyone on the planet has to choose between ISK making and proper defenses. Also... you mentioned that "planet types will have no effect on Military networks". That seems backwards to me... it should be a very different experience operating on a temperate planet, which is totally habitable and livable without any special equipment, then on a plasma world, where the atmosphere is a horrible deathscape of flaming electric doom... not to mention a Gas Giant, where the players aren't so much attacking individual buildings as they are mounting boarding actions against hostile space stations. This is, of course, more relevant to the Dust players then the Eve players, but I definitely think that there should be some notable differences in what structures are used, and which are more or less effective, since the terrain does very much differ.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 40	Posted - 2011.11.24 01:50:00 - [166] - Quote Relevant to Dust integration... there are distinct technical implications to the 'ships bombarding the surface' thing. The existing 'Capitals Only' idea makes sense, because capital ships are expected to be big slow things that take forever to act. You don't want sub-capital ships freely shooting down at the planet, because there will be a mesure of delay between the PC-based Eve network and the PS3-based Dust network. That's just the way it is, and there's not any easy solution to the tech gap. But that IS a problem that is solvable by tweaking the mechanics. Personally, I'd suggest that any ship with weapons that can hit at greater then a certain minimum range... 10-20 km, say... might be allowed to shoot at the things on the planet, but not independently. They'll only be able to lock onto existing targeting beacons, and add their fire to them. Targeting beacons, as envisioned, will be something that can either be deployed by Dust players on the surface, or 'painted' by capital pilots in orbit. Capital ships wouldn't necessarily have specific info about the tactical situation on the ground, but they could simply target hostile structures and let rip; Dust players on the other hand, can deploy their beacons at will. Any ship with weapons appropriate to planetary bombardment, then, will be able to fire on the beacons... though non-capital ships, lacking the range and targeting systems of the capitals, would have to enter a low orbit and remain relatively stationary in order to pull that off. Doing so will render them a valid target to ground forces, as well as making them more vulnerable to opposing space forces... but will let them shoot at whatever beacons they're in range of. This mechanic gives the Dust clients time to recognize and respond to ships entering the ground combat environment, and to integrate their attacks appropriately. Most likely, beacons targeted against a specific building will cause space-based attacks against that building to impact against Planetary Shields -> Localized Shields -> Armor -> Structure in that order, with damage to individual Dust players becoming possible at the Armor level, and probable at the Structure level (and being inside a building that is destroyed by orbital bombardment is pretty much fatal). As an alternative, Dust players could deploy beacons to target staging areas used by the opposing side, causing any attacks fired at the beacon to spawn as roughly-targeted orbital fire against that location... dangerous, but diffuse, depending on the weapons and damage types involved. And, of course, the Dust players will have plenty of warning about beacons being onlined by their enemies, and will know exactly what they need to shoot to stop the bombardment. Similarly, I don't see too much problems with players sending their drones to engage in attacks against the surface. So long as their ships are in positions from which they can properly aggress the planet (which, again, makes non-capital ships more vulnerable then the Capitals), then they will simply have the ability to assign any/all of their drones to the Dust player who is acting as the commander of the battle in question. Once the drones reach the surface, that commander will be able to issue them orders, and they'll act in all ways as a Dust unit, instead of an Eve unit, and will no longer be vulnerable to attacks from space. Drones that are not Fighters, of course, weren't designed for atmospheric combat... and since MWD's don't work in atmosphere, said drones will be relatively sluggish and unresponsive... easy targets for Dust players with even man-portable anti-air weapons, to say nothing of emplaced defenses. Fighters, of course, will be more effective, especially against other Dust air units; and Fighter-Bombers will be especially valuable against structures. Sentry drones are probably exempt from all this, and will have to settle for the same beacon bombardment available to anything else in orbit, while Logistics and EWAR drones may or may not have a role to play, depending on how the combat mechanisms wind up working. Finally, I don't see ship-to-ship combat in atmosphere happening the way you describe it; too big a gap between the ground-side and the land-side. At the very least, that'd be something that'd need to wait on a post-Dust expansion. Smuggling stuff off a planet past the taxman is interesting and thematic... but the present system isn;t quite evolved enough to include it, at least not immediately.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 812	Posted - 2011.11.24 19:47:00 - [167] - Quote Endovior wrote: Firstly... wow. Just wow. More stuff. Thanks for the comments. I'm just gonna quote that otherwise we'll be here for life. 1) Ice mines were a late addition to a previous draft. Their ingame implications for PI networks, storage and logistics were not properly considered. We'll have to increase the hanger sizes and determine the effect on link capacity. I was contemplating 1 hour cycles for the building with 1-2 blocks yield per cycle. 4 types of ice mine: Amarr -> Amarr Ice -> consumes slaves (produced as byproduct to specialized Amarrian civilian PI buildings) Gallente -> Gallente Ice -> consumes data cores for mining drones (can be introduced as a new PI refined commodity, or as a new data core type) Caldari -> Caldari Ice -> consumes homeless (produced by all civilian networks if population count exceeds housing capacity) Minmatar -> Minmatar Ice -> consumes mining equipment (can be introduced as a new PI refined commodity) 2) I'm down with a "select all factories" & "route all factories" button(s). Then again, I'm fine with it the way it is now. 3) PI mimicking POS and outpost functionality -> I think its fine to allow this. All the services found on outposts, were once on planets. It won't kill the value of outposts or towers, since the PI buildings will perform slower than outpost and POS buildings. It will just allow more people to setup slots and not have to wait for an outpost or pay hundreds of millions for a tower. The same cannot be said about Moon Interaction, were we aim to completely eradicate POS based moon mining. 4) Datacores will have material requirements for manufacturing. I also have ownable agents, so players can purchase their own research agents and set them up in their bars/pleasure hubs. Same applies for normal agents. Players who owned these would get a 5% cut or w/e from the payouts to other players. 5) Civilian Transports. I don't think so. I reckon we should just include a breeding civilian population with each civilian command center. That way once its placed, your population multiplies itself and the pilot who owns the network serves as a "civilian transport". But in terms of a sell-able, movable, exploitable item for ships, populations should never go there. Naturally, wh players do not have connections to developed space, so migration is difficult and or non existent. To this end, we should add some sort of population modifier for 0.0, low sec and hisec space as there is more than enough infrastructure to enable migration. 6) The worker idea stemmed from the populations possibly adding some form of value to industrial and military networks beyond being just tax farms for the owner and helping grind the development index. Sure, automate your buildings, but I think this should be a default option for single network PI. City networks should have their populations do something, so employment seemed a logical option. Even if we eradicate workers entirely and just focus on housing limitations for the population, we'd still end up with homeless individuals once the population exceeds the housing limit. 7) Planetary attributes -> more livable and less livable conditions, by all means throw in that variation and increase the construction and operational costs of buildings on the variations as they go. We could even add pollution and hippy tree hugging consequences depending on the way of life of these cities. Bigger polluters from more industrialized cities will decrease the attractiveness, while more civilian orientated areas do the opposite. 8) Do not confuse terraforming with pollution or cleaning up a planet. Planets go through life cycles, think mars. from temperate, to barren wasteland, to possible ice rock and what have you. Allot of people say sure, increase the suitableness of a planet to attract bigger populations faster. I say change the type completely. Make it a long and expensive process, but make it possible. As the process progresses, increase or decrease the life sustaining attributes accordingly. 9) Doomsdaying worlds should have devastating effects on an environmental level. Cities would still be able to survive with enough military networks and rfed shields covering the entire city. 10) I do not agree with making military PI something that can be spammed like tanks in C&C. That would lead to blobs of defenses. Keep it a PI type or else you'd have 1 single network capable of withstanding 100s of ships. And that's just OP and wrong on so many levels. If the sole military network owner wants to screw over the city, then its no different from a rogue director disbanding an alliance. 11) Bring in varying expense and construction costs for military PI based on the planet type. I'm all for this. 12) Ships at some point should be able to land on the surface. This entails gangs of sub caps can hang around in air above cities in holding patterns, trying to shoot down would be escapees. Gate camps, only not. ;) Slow down the ships by 50% due to air friction, kill warp and mwd, add time dilation due to said friction, and you have enough time to allow dust servers to transmit information between servers. Allow afterburners, but the more speed, the more damage a ship sustains until it pops from friction and metal fatigue. So dust players can shoot at Eve ships if they felt like it, and Eve sub caps could shoot at PI structures. In terms of damage to Dust units, this would be reserved for Supers, Capitals like carriers and dreads. 13) Sub caps should be able to only agress PI in range of Dust fire. Reason, their weapons and ammo charges are too small and would burn up from orbit, like small asteroids. Thus, Caps reign supreme. Caps can shoot with beacons or without, sub caps have to wander in range of Dust + defenses to shoot at PI. 14) Drones. I say sentry drones and smaller from inside the atmosphere, fighters and bombers from orbit.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 47	Posted - 2011.11.24 20:23:00 - [168] - Quote 1: Ice Mines sound quite appropriate, provided they consume resources and have appropriate storage/link capacity, yes. 2: I'm prepared to put up with the clickfest, but I know there's no real reason for the process to be that click-intensive. Even being aware that moving to a less click-intensive method would bring more people into PI, and thus lower my profits... I'd prefer the mechanics to be more workable and less RSI-inducing. 3: It's a question of investment and maintenance, more then anything else. It takes a lot of logistical effort to build and fuel a POS, and moreso to hatch a station. In comparison, it takes approximately no effort, or cost, to drop PI. Accordingly, it seems drastically unfair to have PI competing with POS's. Of course, Stations, once built, will always be the preferred method for doing things... but even if you're aiming to eliminate POS mining, there's no reason to eliminate research/manufacturing POS's. 5: Even if this is, by and large, abstracted away, I think it would be interesting if the civilian populations were to spawn transport contracts on a regular basis. If it's not going to be a big deal game mechanic, then it doesn't need specific ships for it... but it'd still be interesting to have the population moving around, to some degree, of their own 'free will'. -10- I particularly disagree with your idea that whoever decides to set up a military network is only setting up a military network, and doing nothing else. As envisioned, the people with the most stake in a given world will probably be the city executors, who will probably be doing Civilian PI; anyone cooperating with them in doing Civilian PI, or doing Industrial PI, will have a lesser but also noteworthy stake. If Military PI is an entirely separate thing that prevents it's users from doing any other sort of PI on the world, then the world's defenders have no stake in whether it gets defended or not. That's bad. That either leads to a PI tax, where all serious corporations demand that all of their members spend X of their PI slots in setting up military defences on worlds such-and-such... or to 'who cares about Military PI, that's something the Dust people do', depending on whether or not Dust players can set up military networks, and whether world ownership factors into Soverignty calculations. As envisioned, Military PI will probably be the most infrastructure-intensive sort of PI. Military PI will consume workers from the civilian side and goods from the industrial side, and though people may want to spam it, everyone building any sort of Military PI network will have to pay the maintenance costs. And, of course, they can only do so on worlds that they already have structures on, and not beyond the level where they have their own infrastructure built up there. Given all those considerations, it's really not especially spammable... as envisioned, a really heavily defended world is one where all of the stakeholders are spending lots of their own ISK to keep it safe. A maxed-out Military PI network probably consumes enough resources that whatever else it is that you're doing on the planet, you're almost certainly not making a profit... and a planet full of said networks, linked through a series of cities and whatnot... is not a place of profit and industry, it's a defensive structure, and a tool of sovereignty. Provided that appropriate costs are charged for this, it feels okay to me.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 812	Posted - 2011.11.24 20:37:00 - [169] - Quote Endovior wrote: 1: Ice Mines sound quite appropriate, provided they consume resources and have appropriate storage/link capacity, yes. They will and do Endovior wrote: 2: I'm prepared to put up with the clickfest, but I know there's no real reason for the process to be that click-intensive. Even being aware that moving to a less click-intensive method would bring more people into PI, and thus lower my profits... I'd prefer the mechanics to be more workable and less RSI-inducing. I'd prefer to keep my current profits. I feel you on the RSI comment, even the more PI players with a smoother feel, but tbh the whole current click on all 5 of my factories thing across a gazillion accounts doesn't register on an emotional level as much as the click on each individual extractor out of 40 per network thing did. Endovior wrote: 3: It's a question of investment and maintenance, more then anything else. It takes a lot of logistical effort to build and fuel a POS, and moreso to hatch a station. In comparison, it takes approximately no effort, or cost, to drop PI. Accordingly, it seems drastically unfair to have PI competing with POS's. Of course, Stations, once built, will always be the preferred method for doing things... but even if you're aiming to eliminate POS mining, there's no reason to eliminate research/manufacturing POS's. Again, PI buildings will be slower. for say, research networks, this will translate into days and weeks of additional delay if your working with items like Capital BPOs etc. If you want those things done in a more timely fashion, then invest in a tower or an outpost if you have the cash. The same will apply to manufacturing, with a severe reduction of slots per building compared to slots per POS module. a tower module will easily have 3 times more slots than a network, while operating 15%-30% faster. If we apply the same logic to ship modules, we pay hundreds of millions for a 3% bonus. That seems out of whack for me. Endovior wrote: 5: Even if this is, by and large, abstracted away, I think it would be interesting if the civilian populations were to spawn transport contracts on a regular basis. If it's not going to be a big deal game mechanic, then it doesn't need specific ships for it... but it'd still be interesting to have the population moving around, to some degree, of their own 'free will'. Not going to argue. And I'm sure we could introduce some sort of mechanism for that. But I don't think this should be the primary population growth mechanic. It should be supplementary based on the attractiveness of the destination. Endovior wrote: -10- I particularly disagree with your idea that whoever decides to set up a military network is only setting up a military network, and doing nothing else. As envisioned, the people with the most stake in a given world will probably be the city executors, who will probably be doing Civilian PI; anyone cooperating with them in doing Civilian PI, or doing Industrial PI, will have a lesser but also noteworthy stake. If Military PI is an entirely separate thing that prevents it's users from doing any other sort of PI on the world, then the world's defenders have no stake in whether it gets defended or not. That's bad. That either leads to a PI tax, where all serious corporations demand that all of their members spend X of their PI slots in setting up military defences on worlds such-and-such... or to 'who cares about Military PI, that's something the Dust people do', depending on whether or not Dust players can set up military networks, and whether world ownership factors into Soverignty calculations. As envisioned, Military PI will probably be the most infrastructure-intensive sort of PI. Military PI will consume workers from the civilian side and goods from the industrial side, and though people may want to spam it, everyone building any sort of Military PI network will have to pay the maintenance costs. And, of course, they can only do so on worlds that they already have structures on, and not beyond the level where they have their own infrastructure built up there. Given all those considerations, it's really not especially spammable... as envisioned, a really heavily defended world is one where all of the stakeholders are spending lots of their own ISK to keep it safe. A maxed-out Military PI network probably consumes enough resources that whatever else it is that you're doing on the planet, you're almost certainly not making a profit... and a planet full of said networks, linked through a series of cities and whatnot... is not a place of profit and industry, it's a defensive structure, and a tool of sovereignty. Provided that appropriate costs are charged for this, it feels okay to me. And if Military PI had its own passive income structures that could offset the expense only angle? Then surely it would render this oversight null and void. It's like hisec towers. You have the defenses, but you keep them offline until needed because they suck up resources and it's pointless to engage a hisec tower without a wardec and a blob of ships. This having been said, I do not believe Military PI, or the means to defend your interests should be a profitable business, when compared to civilian, social or industrial PI. But a valid point.
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 14	Posted - 2011.11.27 04:06:00 - [170] - Quote I just figured out something: If these changes to PI take hold, it will make Eve become a vastly superior and yet slightly gimped version of Astro Empires. Vastly superiority granted from the ability to have everything in 3D instead of just text and timers, along with the ability to interact with it from a third person, on foot perspective to a "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZAR" deathbeaming it. The Slight gimping comes from the inability to have vast armadas under one's command. Where the science gets done

Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 51	Posted - 2011.11.27 11:43:00 - [171] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: I'd prefer to keep my current profits. I feel you on the RSI comment, even the more PI players with a smoother feel, but tbh the whole current click on all 5 of my factories thing across a gazillion accounts doesn't register on an emotional level as much as the click on each individual extractor out of 40 per network thing did. I hear you. Financially speaking, it is kind of a toss-up, but ultimately, I conclude that, since I make as much or more money from PI-related arbitrage as I do from the PI itself, it'd be better to have more people involved in the market then less. And supporting a bad and inconvenient mechanic just because I'm personally willing to put up with it, based on the conclusion that there are other people out there who find it so frustrating they'd rather not bother... yeah, I'd rather be playing a better game, then making more money in a worse one. Asuka Solo wrote: Again, PI buildings will be slower. for say, research networks, this will translate into days and weeks of additional delay if your working with items like Capital BPOs etc. If you want those things done in a more timely fashion, then invest in a tower or an outpost if you have the cash. The same will apply to manufacturing, with a severe reduction of slots per building compared to slots per POS module. a tower module will easily have 3 times more slots than a network, while operating 15%-30% faster. If we apply the same logic to ship modules, we pay hundreds of millions for a 3% bonus. That seems out of whack for me. 'Slower' hardly cuts it. This is a game-changer, and not in a good way. Right now, the easiest way to get extra research/manufacturing slots is to put up a POS, and that's not at all easy. POS's are big, expensive, and high-maintenance. Those maintenance costs can be alleviated by doing PI, and the penultimate products of PI are needed to build more POS. By creating new ways to get access to Research/Manufacturing slots, 'slower' or 'less efficient' or not, you massively devalue the POS. That, in turn, massively devalues PI. In short, adding Research/Manufacturing capacity to PI will actually decimate PI, at least in it's present 'Industrial' form. I remain vehemently opposed to this idea. Any other industrial capabilities added to PI should be orthogonal to the existing system, and not at all in direct competition with it. Given that you're already introducing datacore production via groundside research labs, why not add the ability to convert Meta 0 modules into Meta 1-4 modules on the manufacturing side? Asuka Solo wrote: And if Military PI had its own passive income structures that could offset the expense only angle? Then surely it would render this oversight null and void. It's like hisec towers. You have the defenses, but you keep them offline until needed because they suck up resources and it's pointless to engage a hisec tower without a wardec and a blob of ships. This having been said, I do not believe Military PI, or the means to defend your interests should be a profitable business, when compared to civilian, social or industrial PI. But a valid point. Then again, if you ran (project) the numbers, you'll see that even a single civilian network with a large enough tax base could make a profit and carry a single military network with ease within said profit margins. We don't want to create isk supernova waterfall faucets without isk blackholes. Making military PI profitable would be like making guns on a POS pay you isk if its onlined. So... we agree, then, that Military PI should not be profitable. Since it's something that costs money, then, it's not something that people will want to set up on worlds that they don't have a stake in. Since it's something that, under your current proposal, would interfere with their ability to engage in profitable PI, it's something that would only happen as a 'Planet Tax'... which is a terrible mechanic, and certainly not something you'd want underscoring the whole framework of DUST. Of course, I totally understand where you're coming from in terms of MCC spam. Just like it wouldn't make sense for people to only involve themselves in the defense of others, it would also be bad if almost everyone who ran any PI at all anywhere had a pile of defensive structures for no reason, just because. Perhaps a compromise? You don't want people to be able to spam Military PI on all their worlds. You've already introduced a skill that would let people add another 5 worlds worth of PI, for a total of 11. Why not add another PI skill... requiring some non-trivial amount of existing PI skills, I'd advocate at least Interplanetary Consolidation IV and Command Center Upgrades IV... called 'Planetary Defense Command' or some such. Each level of that skill would allow you to build a Military Command Center, for a total of 5 at level V. There could also be another skill called something like 'Planetary Defense Operations' that determines how much your MCC's can be upgraded. Of course, these would be more expensive PI skills, around level 8 or so. Accordingly, since they'd be skills requiring a high level of investment in PI... and then a high level of investment in ISK... for no return but that the worlds you choose to guard become safer... they wouldn't be spammed anywhere near as much as they would if they were 'free' for people to deploy on their own worlds. But that said... since they'd be separate systems, people still could choose to defend their own worlds, without fear of overlap. That sound better to you?
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 51	Posted - 2011.11.27 11:59:00 - [172] - Quote Also... 5 factories? I run factory worlds with 19 advanced factories each, since that sits at the nice intersection of "doesn't take all that long to train for" (CCU III) and "burns through a full launchpad of resources in just under a day" (and thus can be restocked before and after work for max efficiency). The process of changing production on one of those worlds looks something like this: Double-click (on the factory in question) Scroll (through the schematic list) Double-click (on the desired schematic) Double-click (on the routing button) Double-click (on the launchpad) Repeat for the other 18 factories Deliver the ingredients Click (the storage tab on the launchpad) Double-click (the first ingredient) Double-click (the first factory you want to deliver to) Repeat for the other 18 factories Repeat again for the second ingredient Repeat again again if you're doing something involving three ingredients That's 342 clicks (and 19 scrolls) in the best-case scenario; 437 in the worst-case. That's for each planet that needs to be changed over, and does not count any clicks associated with delivering resources. There IS a reason why I'd like this streamlined.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 826	Posted - 2011.11.27 13:18:00 - [173] - Quote Endovior wrote: 'Slower' hardly cuts it. This is a game-changer, and not in a good way. Right now, the easiest way to get extra research/manufacturing slots is to put up a POS, and that's not at all easy. POS's are big, expensive, and high-maintenance. Those maintenance costs can be alleviated by doing PI, and the penultimate products of PI are needed to build more POS. By creating new ways to get access to Research/Manufacturing slots, 'slower' or 'less efficient' or not, you massively devalue the POS. That, in turn, massively devalues PI. In short, adding Research/Manufacturing capacity to PI will actually decimate PI, at least in it's present 'Industrial' form. I remain vehemently opposed to this idea. So why not make the costs of those buildings mirror the costs of current POS modules? They (planetary Installations) will also require an upkeep, it would just not be as expensive as a POS. You'd build the building on a planet for roughly the current Jita prices of the POS counterpart module. At the end of the day, research and manufacturing on PI worlds is an option that should be open to players. And what changes are coming for modular towers? Have those been considered or aligned with the effects this suggestion will have on them? I still propose we allow it. Endovior wrote: Perhaps a compromise? You don't want people to be able to spam Military PI on all their worlds. You've already introduced a skill that would let people add another 5 worlds worth of PI, for a total of 11. Why not add another PI skill... requiring some non-trivial amount of existing PI skills, I'd advocate at least Interplanetary Consolidation IV and Command Center Upgrades IV... called 'Planetary Defense Command' or some such. Each level of that skill would allow you to build a Military Command Center, for a total of 5 at level V. There could also be another skill called something like 'Planetary Defense Operations' that determines how much your MCC's can be upgraded. Of course, these would be more expensive PI skills, around level 8 or so. Accordingly, since they'd be skills requiring a high level of investment in PI... and then a high level of investment in ISK... for no return but that the worlds you choose to guard become safer... they wouldn't be spammed anywhere near as much as they would if they were 'free' for people to deploy on their own worlds. But that said... since they'd be separate systems, people still could choose to defend their own worlds, without fear of overlap. That sound better to you? Would this work the same way the current system works i.e. 1 military command center per planet with a total of 5 command centers (or more if we add an advanced version of the skill to the tree)? Because that doesn't sound like a bad alternative. Or would you envision this idea with 5 military command centers... per planet... Because the 5 per planet the player has a civilian/industrial network on is still going to turn military PI into a spamming blob and the costs would mount somewhat.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 826	Posted - 2011.11.27 13:21:00 - [174] - Quote Endovior wrote: Also... 5 factories? I run factory worlds with 19 advanced factories each, since that sits at the nice intersection of "doesn't take all that long to train for" (CCU III) and "burns through a full launchpad of resources in just under a day" (and thus can be restocked before and after work for max efficiency). The process of changing production on one of those worlds looks something like this: Double-click (on the factory in question) Scroll (through the schematic list) Double-click (on the desired schematic) Double-click (on the routing button) Double-click (on the launchpad) Repeat for the other 18 factories Deliver the ingredients Click (the storage tab on the launchpad) Double-click (the first ingredient) Double-click (the first factory you want to deliver to) Repeat for the other 18 factories Repeat again for the second ingredient Repeat again again if you're doing something involving three ingredients That's 342 clicks (and 19 scrolls) in the best-case scenario; 437 in the worst-case. That's for each planet that needs to be changed over, and does not count any clicks associated with delivering resources. There IS a reason why I'd like this streamlined. So streamline it. I'm not against it happening at all. I'm just saying I'm comfortable with the current setup.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 51	Posted - 2011.11.27 13:41:00 - [175] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: So why not make the costs of those buildings mirror the costs of current POS modules? They (planetary Installations) will also require an upkeep, it would just not be as expensive as a POS. You'd build the building on a planet for roughly the current Jita prices of the POS counterpart module. At the end of the day, research and manufacturing on PI worlds is an option that should be open to players. And what changes are coming for modular towers? Have those been considered or aligned with the effects this suggestion will have on them? I still propose we allow it. I can't see the future. I don't know how modular POS's will look if/when they get released. But at present, this would have a destructive effect on the economy. Even so, I'd be inclined to suggest that, if there really needs to be more research/manufacturing slots available, that there be other ways of getting them (moon 'PI'? player-owned deadspace complexes?) that wouldn't invoke the economic destruction caused by mixing it in with existing PI. Frankly, the issue here is that existing PI is just way too cheap and requires way too little infrastructure to be an appropriate source of slots. If you were to propose a way of getting slots that required about as much resource investment (in terms of consumption of P4 commodities and some kind of PI-based fuel), then I wouldn't have an objection. I don't feel that that way should be planet-based, but if the infrastructure and fuel issues were dealt with, then there wouldn't be huge economic problems associated with it. Asuka Solo wrote: Would this work the same way the current system works i.e. 1 military command center per planet with a total of 5 command centers (or more if we add an advanced version of the skill to the tree)? Because that doesn't sound like a bad alternative. Or would you envision this idea with 5 military command centers... per planet... Because the 5 per planet the player has a civilian/industrial network on is still going to turn military PI into a spamming blob and the costs would mount somewhat. Uh... no, 5 MCC's total, like with the current system. In suggesting a compromise, I was proposing something more reasonable then my initial suggestion, not something totally insane. As envisioned, you could have an MCC and a Civilian/Industrial CC of your choice on the same planet... but your total amount of MCCs with maxed skills is 5, while your total amount of Civ/Ind CCs is 11. That make more sense?
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 826	Posted - 2011.11.27 17:46:00 - [176] - Quote Endovior wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: So why not make the costs of those buildings mirror the costs of current POS modules? They (planetary Installations) will also require an upkeep, it would just not be as expensive as a POS. You'd build the building on a planet for roughly the current Jita prices of the POS counterpart module. At the end of the day, research and manufacturing on PI worlds is an option that should be open to players. And what changes are coming for modular towers? Have those been considered or aligned with the effects this suggestion will have on them? I still propose we allow it. I can't see the future. I don't know how modular POS's will look if/when they get released. But at present, this would have a destructive effect on the economy. Even so, I'd be inclined to suggest that, if there really needs to be more research/manufacturing slots available, that there be other ways of getting them (moon 'PI'? player-owned deadspace complexes?) that wouldn't invoke the economic destruction caused by mixing it in with existing PI. Frankly, the issue here is that existing PI is just way too cheap and requires way too little infrastructure to be an appropriate source of slots. If you were to propose a way of getting slots that required about as much resource investment (in terms of consumption of P4 commodities and some kind of PI-based fuel), then I wouldn't have an objection. I don't feel that that way should be planet-based, but if the infrastructure and fuel issues were dealt with, then there wouldn't be huge economic problems associated with it. Asuka Solo wrote: Would this work the same way the current system works i.e. 1 military command center per planet with a total of 5 command centers (or more if we add an advanced version of the skill to the tree)? Because that doesn't sound like a bad alternative. Or would you envision this idea with 5 military command centers... per planet... Because the 5 per planet the player has a civilian/industrial network on is still going to turn military PI into a spamming blob and the costs would mount somewhat. Uh... no, 5 MCC's total, like with the current system. In suggesting a compromise, I was proposing something more reasonable then my initial suggestion, not something totally insane. As envisioned, you could have an MCC and a Civilian/Industrial CC of your choice on the same planet... but your total amount of MCCs with maxed skills is 5, while your total amount of Civ/Ind CCs is 11. That make more sense? 1) MCCs: -That sounds like a very reasonable alternative. I am still just a little worried about the compounding effect of all of those defensive segments on the city. But if we tie those military networks onto the same active player that owns an industrial/civilian/social network, then we wouldn't have to find means of making military PI profitable to sustain the expense costs etc. I guess the reduced number of military segments compared to other types would go a way to leveling the field, but I think our best way of approving that change would be to test it on SiSi and see if we approve or not. 2) Your gripes with Social/slot based PI: -I didn't include a placement cost for these building types. But thinking about it, perhaps we could tie in the POS based modules from the market, or create a planetary variation of that module that would have a cost comparable with the costs one would sustain in setting up a POS with said modules. So regardless how these buildings end up on the market, be they outpost based components, planetary variants, POS based variants, it doesn't matter, as long as they cost a butt-load to purchase and have an operating expense that wouldn't make a POS look like a big leap financially speaking. This is after all, a long-term investment.
Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 51	Posted - 2011.11.27 21:55:00 - [177] - Quote 1: It is my expectation that, given a high bar to entry (only those who train their PI skills up to fairly high levels may apply), and limited slots available to those who do train the skill, that there would be vastly less MCCs then the other types. That said, testing can determine whether or not this is the case... and, of course, if it was found that the compounded effect of multiple MCCs is too great, it could always be nerfed from the CPU/Powergrid end. If, once everything has been calculated out and laid down, there's too many military facilities out there per planet, just reduce the maximum amount of defensive structures any given MCC can lay down. One way or another, it'll work out. 2: I haven't said as much about the social end of things, because that's a little far off from the rest. That said, if there was a method involving high initial infrastructure costs, plus ongoing maintenance, for some high-investment person like a city executor to slot in a certain amount of research/manufacturing facilities to his city center (rather then any random person just dropping said facilities for a trivial ISK payment), then that would probably work.
Marlakh 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2011.11.28 08:56:00 - [178] - Quote I dreamt that the OP was a dev blog... Then I woke up Make it so, CCP! Add in seamless transitions between space, atmospheric and ground travel and I will be happy for life...
J3ssica Alba Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2011.11.28 19:23:00 - [179] - Quote I just skimmed through this topic while running incursions but I love the OP already. This is just awesome and I really hope CCP have a good look at it.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 849	Posted - 2011.11.29 06:43:00 - [180] - Quote J3ssica Alba wrote: I just skimmed through this topic while running incursions but I love the OP already. This is just awesome and I really hope CCP have a good look at it. We have celebrity support now! \o/

Ingrid Onnatop Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.11.29 06:47:00 - [181] - Quote This topic turns me on. +1
Steveir Hagukure Empire Industry 17	Posted - 2011.12.02 05:39:00 - [182] - Quote Somewhere in CCP there is a coder gibbering madly after reading your post and realising someone might tell him to make it happen :) This is epic, if it comes to pass it will elevate EVE to a whole new game; well done. I'm cross posting a few very small and humble idea I was thinking of below. CCP should give you a job - now! I think expanding PI modules to include offense/defense elements would give PI another layer of gameplay and interlink with Dust in terms of attack and defense of installations. Imagine haveing to ship a few hundred marines to your PI to man the defenses (and next week 50 exotic dancers to improve moral). The biggest issue with all this is the rewards / returns of current PI. My solution is to create rare earth planets. These planets would create resources which are highly valuable 100 mill a week or more say. Something involved is rig production or t3 hulls, POS, POCO etc. Rare earth planets exist only in losec and I'm sure CCP can find a tonne of systems that don't have a lot of activity at the moment. These would be the planets that get fought over by the Dust bunnies
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 123	Posted - 2011.12.02 14:50:00 - [183] - Quote I think these are all good ideas and should be added, but what I'd like to see is focused more on how PI interacts with other planets in an interdependent sort of way, while automating the process so that players don't need to micromanage (but can if they want to) so much and free them up to focus on DUST conflicts which, let's face, it is going to be the main driving force of PI action once it's released. I'd like to see PI based around an automated, adjustable Import/Export system where planets import resources they need (running an ISK deficit based on what's ) and export surplus (gaining ISK). The automated export system gives 4 options of what to do with resources that are generated: 1: Local requirements (What the current population requires) 2: Wholesale (Planet automatically exports good to closest, highest paying importer planet, further modifiable among planetary ownership along Personal, Inter-Corporate, Inter-Alliance and Public lines) 3: Customs Office (sends it to PCO for sale by anyone) and 4: Surplus (keeps stock planetside awaiting owner pickup. Lifeless worlds should require the importing of food for anything beyond basic population. Hydroponic farms could be one option, but require energy and space that could be otherwise devoted to extracting more goods. Ambitious players could build up teeming factory cities pumping out vast profit on barren worlds as would be usurpers try to chip away at them by having DUST teams working to secure the food supply (or energy supply) and either gouge or strangle the enterprise. Also the option of using PI to open manufacturing slots instead of export anything should be an option to give a much-needed boost to low-end nullsec industry.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 14:58:00 - [184] - Quote I know this is somewhat negative but I really think DUST is gonna fail big. They should of made it for the PC and not PS3. The only thing I would add to the above is fold in SupCom :) RTS in Eve please.
Nestara Aldent EVE University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2011.12.02 21:02:00 - [185] - Quote TL:DR But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would. Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched. If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there. End of the story.
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 143	Posted - 2011.12.03 00:04:00 - [186] - Quote Nestara Aldent wrote: TL:DR But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would. Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched. If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there. End of the story. lol Terraforming is a staple of scifi, so what are you talking about? I know it's a "Hypothesis" but so is FTL.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.12.03 00:25:00 - [187] - Quote Nestara Aldent wrote: TL:DR But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would. Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched. If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there. End of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars You would use asteroids in the belt to impact Mars and create dust to heat up the climate to start with.... this is a 100 thousand times more likely to be doable then FTL.
Nestara Aldent EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2011.12.03 00:35:00 - [188] - Quote FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote: Nestara Aldent wrote: TL:DR But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would. Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched. If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there. End of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars You would use asteroids in the belt to impact Mars and create dust to heat up the climate to start with.... this is a 100 thousand times more likely to be doable then FTL. What's written there is just a hypothesis, nothing more. It's in "too much energy needed" category I mentioned. And when and if terraforming becomes possible, gravity of Mars would still require lengthy process of adjustment. In other words, nobody would live there, unless forced to.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.12.03 00:50:00 - [189] - Quote Nestara Aldent wrote: FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote: Nestara Aldent wrote: TL:DR But whoever thought terraforming is a cool idea, and plausible, made a very bad proposal. That would ruin immersion in this game to the same extent as time travel would. Terraforming is just a hypothesis, so assuming it's doable, even in far future with vary advanced technology, is far fetched. If the planet's orbit is such that it can't support life, nothing can be done. Otherwise, amount of energy required for terraforming would be enormous, and the results would be dubious. Imagine transporting mass of the whole atmosphere of one planetary body to Mars, transporting too enormous amount of water and engineering climate change just to find out that gravity is still to low, and though life can exist, it's uncomfortable, the least, for humans to live there. End of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars You would use asteroids in the belt to impact Mars and create dust to heat up the climate to start with.... this is a 100 thousand times more likely to be doable then FTL. What's written there is just a hypothesis, nothing more. It's in "too much energy needed" category I mentioned. And when and if terraforming becomes possible, gravity of Mars would still require lengthy process of adjustment. In other words, nobody would live there, unless forced to. My point was that it really is not that far fetched, it's just the magnitude of the effort not the technology.
Nestara Aldent EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2011.12.03 01:15:00 - [190] - Quote Forum ate my post. I'll perhaps post here later.

Endovior Brothers At Arms Intrepid Crossing 64	Posted - 2011.12.03 01:28:00 - [191] - Quote Uh... this is the future. There are spaceships. There is artificial gravity. These problems ARE solvable. It IS a valid point that people should probably not be able to easily change around planet types at whim... 'terraforming' a gas giant, in particular, is a fairly ridiculous idea... but that said, there's some validity to letting people tweak the climate a little within the window of what a given planet type allows.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.12.03 01:56:00 - [192] - Quote I would say the most basic form would be an installation that just increases output of certain biological commodities.
Nestara Aldent EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2011.12.03 02:33:00 - [193] - Quote Ill post an answer now. Empires are much more powerful that any player corp will ever be in the game (at least, game lore will never be different), they only tolerate corp sov because it's currently convenient, much like British and Dutch tolerated sovereignty of historical trading companies in the far east just until it bwas useful. Cloning will not always remain privilege of small amount of rich capsuleers belong to. When the time comes capsuleer corps will be outlawed and system they hold sovereignty on will be claimed by Empires. (of course we'll not ever play in that era of Eve, for obvious reasons). Now do you really believe Empires would allow capsuleer corps to mess with, in essence, their planets whose use capsulerrs pay with isk? And on top of it, I couldn't believe player corporation could wield enough financial resources for such a big project. Technology don't exist yet in the world of Eve, ugly retcon is possible, but first to use it wouldn't be the players. They wouldn't have the money to do so. And on the top of all, why? Terraforming doesn't give you content you can't get in another, better way. In the same way if Stra Trek franchise could just let Enterprise go, and introduce another ship with a different name,though maybe just of identical make, ugly time travel wouldn't be needed.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 124	Posted - 2011.12.03 03:57:00 - [194] - Quote I dislike the idea of terraforming simply because it doesn't match my idea of what EVE is. Eve as a setting and in lore is like Soylent Green in space, with too many people, not enough livable space and not enough food. Protein Delicacies, mutated livestock, scarcity of 'biomass' for cloning, etc. Having worlds become 'terraformed' in a matter of weeks or whatever totally runs against that, it's too easy an out. I'd rather a system like I suggested where terrestrial worlds (and water) become food sources vital to the running of resource rich plasma and ice worlds, with disruptions the supply of food causing mass depopulations while keeping galactic population levels in check.
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 10	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:02:00 - [195] - Quote Nestara Aldent wrote: Ill post an answer now. And on top of it, I couldn't believe player corporation could wield enough financial resources for such a big project. Technology don't exist yet in the world of Eve, ugly retcon is possible, but first to use it wouldn't be the players. They wouldn't have the money to do so. tl:dr got you on this point, we actually already covered it. By cannon (as per either The Burning Life or The Empyrean Age novels) terraforming is possible in Eve, just not widely done. In the book, it was done by Korako Kosakami, aka The Rabbit, head of the Guristas. A better known example is Caldari Prime. There are more in the Evelopedia too. But as a pod pilot, it should be out of reach. Alliances on a scale of the Empires, sure, maybe. But smaller than that? Forget it.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 853	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:56:00 - [196] - Quote Corazani wrote: Nestara Aldent wrote: Ill post an answer now. And on top of it, I couldn't believe player corporation could wield enough financial resources for such a big project. Technology don't exist yet in the world of Eve, ugly retcon is possible, but first to use it wouldn't be the players. They wouldn't have the money to do so. tl:dr got you on this point, we actually already covered it. By cannon (as per either The Burning Life or The Empyrean Age novels) terraforming is possible in Eve, just not widely done. In the book, it was done by Korako Kosakami, aka The Rabbit, head of the Guristas. A better known example is Caldari Prime. There are more in the Evelopedia too. But as a pod pilot, it should be out of reach. Alliances on a scale of the Empires, sure, maybe. But smaller than that? Forget it. This. Eve has terraforming. The initial worlds that were colonized in new Eden before the eve gate collapsed, were in that process. When the gate closed, that process stopped because they could no longer obtain resources from the galaxy that earth was in. Hence why the old and first Eve online introduction mentions the unfinished worlds of eve dying and evolution stepping in while the knowledge of man eroded over the millenniums. I did mention this process should be expensive, akin too if not surpassing super cap construction in terms of resources, infrastructure and time. It's not like every alliance out there is currently building Titans. So I can't see every 7 man hi-sec corp terraforming a planet either...
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba Perkone Caldari State 5	Posted - 2011.12.03 12:15:00 - [197] - Quote Somewhat off topic but what is a good start to reading the back story of Eve? Are there any books?
Corazani Oracle Phoenix 10	Posted - 2011.12.03 13:36:00 - [198] - Quote As far as I'm aware there are just the two books. First there's The Empyrean Age which details the lead-up to the Caldari-Gallente war (ie the crashing of the Nyx, etc...) and the machinations behind/around it. The second is The Burning Life, which takes the lives of four people within New Eden and follows them through a portion of their lives in relation to a number of Pirate factions. For more backstory, there is Link to the Eve Backstory which you can also access from the main site navbar under Eve Online->Backstory That's just the "direct from CCP" stuff. Beyond that would likely be a summary of major alliance events/shifts/collapses/wars that have occured. A bit of googling will yield some fairly nice results on both (amongst others, there was a nice pdf timeline someone put together floating around).
Bronn Stormborn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2011.12.03 18:02:00 - [199] - Quote I have only read the first couple posts so far but this is some amazing stuff, I will give further thoughts when I finish reading it all but so far so very very good!
FeralShadow Black Storm Cartel 21	Posted - 2011.12.04 00:07:00 - [200] - Quote This is all terrific. I dont even think about doing anything with PI now, but if this came to pass I would likely dedicate all my playtime to it.

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 858	Posted - 2011.12.04 19:03:00 - [201] - Quote I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file.
cBOLTSON Star Frontiers BricK sQuAD. 19	Posted - 2011.12.04 20:19:00 - [202] - Quote This is exactly the kind of thing I would love to see in PI. I have played the Imperium Galacticas and the Simcitys and taking the best ideas from there and incorporating them into eve would just rock! I also love the idea how your citys and planets develop and grow over time like skillpoints. The more population the more you can do the more tax you create.
Gempei Siberian Khatru. 19	Posted - 2011.12.06 12:50:00 - [203] - Quote +1 to all ideas in this thread
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 152	Posted - 2011.12.06 22:27:00 - [204] - Quote Endovior wrote: Uh... this is the future. There are spaceships. There is artificial gravity. These problems ARE solvable. It IS a valid point that people should probably not be able to easily change around planet types at whim... 'terraforming' a gas giant, in particular, is a fairly ridiculous idea... but that said, there's some validity to letting people tweak the climate a little within the window of what a given planet type allows. Yea, we're not saying that you should be able to just change climates on a whim. If EVE does Terraforming, it needs to be a Titan level logistical effort and should take at least a month to complete. Again its sci fi - there are MANY examples of this happening in science fiction - this is why its called science fiction and last time I checked, EVE online is based on science fiction Off the top of my head, two movies that I'm sure most people have seen have elements of terraforming: Aliens - LV-426 - Terraformed planet Total Recall - Mars - Terraformed planet Here are some other examples of terraforming in sci fi Terraforming It's totally plausible that in a sci fi game, you're allowed to terraform planets, especially if EVE is to become the ultimate "sci fi" simulator.
Alx Warlord SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave 18	Posted - 2011.12.07 06:31:00 - [205] - Quote +417231451233 to this topic! I cant W8 to see if dust will take some ideas from here or not...
Evenus Battuta 13	Posted - 2011.12.07 07:58:00 - [206] - Quote I like every idea that makes combat happens elsewhere than stargates------ planet orbit will be best place to fight. Endless gatecamp is plain stupid.
Horus V 0	Posted - 2011.12.11 17:16:00 - [207] - Quote +1
Xantos Semah SON OF RAVANA Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers 0	Posted - 2011.12.16 12:32:00 - [208] - Quote The current PI is just too poor if CCP wants the dust 514 to be a succesfull game.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 244	Posted - 2011.12.17 14:25:00 - [209] - Quote Interesting
Stonecold Steve I N E X T R E M I S 18	Posted - 2011.12.17 21:03:00 - [210] - Quote Ingvar Angst wrote: I think the only real problem I have with it is this... I'm already committed to half an hour or so of PI per day, longer when things need rearranging. I'd worry that this would push things towards being so complex that someone that relies on PI to keep the pos running (and for extra income) will find it taking far more time... spending the majority of my Eve time playing with planets isn't really what I'm looking for. Perhaps these concerns wouldn't be realized, but they need to be thought of. I would say hire folks on the planet to help your PI out for a small fee. Cool story bro.. GÇ£Quod licet Iovi non licet boviGÇ¥- Gods may do what cattle may not. "Amat victoria curam"- Victory favours those who take pains.

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 883	Posted - 2011.12.18 07:18:00 - [211] - Quote Just an update on the progress of the Assembly Hall version of this idea. Moon Interaction and Social PI alone are 16 pages (in word). The following items still need a revamp to incorporate feedback from this topic: 1.0 Planetary Interaction 1.1 PICC (Planetary Industrial Command Centers) 1.2 PCCC (Planetary Civilian Command Centers) 1.3 PMCC (Planetary Military Command Centers) 7.0 NPC hauling contracts 8.0 Space and Planetary Economies (for corps and alliances) 9.0 Smuggling and Player owned Customs Offices 10.0 The relationship between Ships and Planets 11.0 Skills for PI 2.1 I've started adding some very simplistic graphical illustrations to the (soon to be) pdf file. Unfounded modest estimates for completion will put it closer to a xmas post.
Theta Eridani SON OF RAVANA Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers 0	Posted - 2011.12.18 16:30:00 - [212] - Quote +1 Cant wait to see pdf.
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 348	Posted - 2011.12.19 08:28:00 - [213] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file. Do this, and if you allready did it I'll notice that in a few seconds and go "yeey" (providing we have slave farms) - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Stonecold Steve I N E X T R E M I S 20	Posted - 2011.12.19 11:12:00 - [214] - Quote bump for awesomeness Cool story bro.. GÇ£Quod licet Iovi non licet boviGÇ¥- Gods may do what cattle may not. "Amat victoria curam"- Victory favours those who take pains.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 912	Posted - 2011.12.19 21:51:00 - [215] - Quote Ciar Meara wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file. Do this, and if you allready did it I'll notice that in a few seconds and go "yeey" (providing we have slave farms) We have a system where civilian networks aligned with Amarr governments, convert excess settlers (that don't have homes) into slaves. Slaves are consumed as a fuel type by Amarrian ice mines. As for actual slave pens, those are proving kind of hard to write in. We're open to serious and substantiated suggestions tho.
Cealis Naarker Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan 1	Posted - 2011.12.20 05:02:00 - [216] - Quote +1 Ccp, start your coders!
LeHarfang Intersteller Masons Wonder Kids 9	Posted - 2011.12.20 05:20:00 - [217] - Quote I really can't wait to see what Dust will bring to Eve Online and if they take some concepts from here and elaborate from there, they could have something pretty interresting!
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 353	Posted - 2011.12.20 10:38:00 - [218] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file. Do this, and if you allready did it I'll notice that in a few seconds and go "yeey" (providing we have slave farms) We have a system where civilian networks aligned with Amarr governments, convert excess settlers (that don't have homes) into slaves. Slaves are consumed as a fuel type by Amarrian ice mines. As for actual slave pens, those are proving kind of hard to write in. We're open to serious and substantiated suggestions tho. :yeey: - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 11	Posted - 2011.12.20 21:21:00 - [219] - Quote Hi Akura Right ATM I've read the TLDR, and it looks like one of the most comprehensive and well thought out projections I have ever heard. Why did I just call your idea a projection you may be thinking. Well I forsee serious implementation issues with what you are suggesting. The thing you may notice about games of this genre (Builder/RTS strategytypes) are they are distinctly diffent in presntation than your (Roleplays and FPS's) . Take simcity for example it's blocky graphics and slow 3d rendering lag far behind RP/FPS games of the same era (whichever version of Sim city you consider). Take even our own PI as an example , it's a very 'functional' graphical experience. My ideas don't need great graphics I Imagine is what your thinking.. and your right. So what am I rambling on about. Well the other distinct diffence , which the now obvious graphical diffrences are a 'symptom' of is, these sort of processes (large multiples of small entities interacting with eachother) literally eat CPU and Memory. There other feature is they are ever ongoing processes, if you log out of a browser RTS it still 'monitors' your empire. This puts excessive strain on a server, considering the thousands of planets in EVE and the number of buildings you are suggesting imagine all them little bean counters trying to run simultaniously. Unfortunalty I don't believe such massive AI processes are very feasible. CCP have done well to implment PI IMO, after CCP releases DUST, then they would need to access how much 'technological overhead' they had and how much they are willing to invest in PI. This is all based on my limited hobbiest experience of proggraming but I'm pretty sure my theories are sound, but should anyone know otherwise please let me know because I would love to see ideas like this implemented. hates to be the bringer of bad tidings /leaves thread in bad mood YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 20	Posted - 2011.12.21 01:09:00 - [220] - Quote Prof Alphane, may I introduce you to Anno 2070, a construction game that has a story along with each mission that also has some RTS in it. Now, my graphics card was in its prime 7-8 years ago and chugs while playing this game on even modest settings, though its beauty does shine. Sim City is an example of a game series that is stamped out of a publishing house of which frequently thinks with its wallet, unlike other games like Painkiller or Half-Life. To address the 'large mulltiples of small entities interacting with eachother', do you think that every npc in every system is taken into account all the time, especially if no player is in the local area, let alone system? and that's just rats! CCP are already proven masters of this sort of thing, keeping track of everything from the number of shells a dread or titan is carrying in Outer Ring to how much veldspar some poor sap has mined in Hek without there being a miscalculation. Considering that only what needs to be rendered or 'thought of' by the server actually gets that fraction of a second of processing time, I don't see this version of a hugely-advanced PI slowing the game down. Where the science gets done

Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 23	Posted - 2011.12.21 02:38:00 - [221] - Quote tankus2 wrote: To address the 'large mulltiples of small entities interacting with eachother', do you think that every npc in every system is taken into account all the time, especially if no player is in the local area, let alone system? and that's just rats! CCP are already proven masters of this sort of thing, keeping track of everything from the number of shells a dread or titan is carrying in Outer Ring to how much veldspar some poor sap has mined in Hek without there being a miscalculation. No but entities like rats and aseroids are not dynamic, there a file in a database that is only needed if someone does something to it. A building on the other hand is dynamic, it changes constantly without anyone needing to log in. Every detail will be updated at set intervals. Things need to be refernced, checked, updated all the time. So while your rat or asteroid just sits on some harddisk somewhere, every building is eating into your processing resources on a constant basis as it 'evolves' overtime. The more buildings the more system resources you need, the more asteroids you just need more harddisk space. Hopefully this explains things a little more clearly /edit saw that Anno 2007 in the shop the other day but didn't really pay attention, I'm not sure what your point is there, yes it's probably pretty but I imagine not to the standard of a modern RPG FPS, the fact your system chugs running it would seem to support my first point. YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 912	Posted - 2011.12.21 21:39:00 - [222] - Quote Prof Alphane Thanks for your insights. I am however, of the naive state of mind to think that the technical overhead and strain on the server would be no more than the combined strain of outposts, towers and the existing PI mechanic rolled into 1 package. An easy infrastructure solution would be to export PI to its own server and only actually be called up in the event that people go into planet views or log in on planets, thus erasing the need for 24/7 processing on the eve server. Almost like rats, but not quite. Since Dust wont be running from the Eve server either, this seems like a viable option if this proposal were in fact to cause major technical headaches upon implementation or testing. But I'm sure the design & Dev teams will be able to shed more light on the technical limitations of their hardware when they do a feasibility study on this idea.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 914	Posted - 2011.12.21 22:39:00 - [223] - Quote The Assembly Hall version of PI 2.0 has been hosted here. A topic has been made with the download link in the Assembly Hall.
Professor Alphane Alphane Research Co-operative 24	Posted - 2011.12.22 01:58:00 - [224] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Prof Alphane Thanks for your insights. I am however, of the naive state of mind to think that the technical overhead and strain on the server would be no more than the combined strain of outposts, towers and the existing PI mechanic rolled into 1 package. An easy infrastructure solution would be to export PI to its own server and only actually be called up in the event that people go into planet views or log in on planets, thus erasing the need for 24/7 processing on the eve server. Almost like rats, but not quite. Since Dust wont be running from the Eve server either, this seems like a viable option if this proposal were in fact to cause major technical headaches upon implementation or testing. But I'm sure the design & Dev teams will be able to shed more light on the technical limitations of their hardware when they do a feasibility study on this idea. Fair enough. In a way that is why I called it a 'projection' as well, it makes an excellent 'road map' of how PI might develop. As I say I like the ideas, and hope CCP do devote more time to developing PI as ATM it's a quickly 'burnt out' mini game. You still get your income but there isn't much to do once you've waded through the massive number of options on what to produce and actually set your colonies running. It was all kind of disapointing IMO. YOU MUST THINK FIRST....
Zimmy Zeta Battle Force Industries 184	Posted - 2011.12.25 23:59:00 - [225] - Quote I read everything and I must say, that was about 2 hours well spent. Some further suggestions / comments: 1. AFAIK Eve is supposed to run in "real time". So I find your growth rates a little off. 15% growth per downtime? Seriously? IMHO it would be more appropriate to have those growth rates on a "per month" base (still ridiculously high growth rate, but, hey, it's just a game) . Growing your cities should take much longer, but it would increase the immersion and give you a better feeling of accomplishment once you have created a metropolis. 2. Cooperation. I like this a lot. Like a second corp, you have to band together with people from other corps to keep the city running. Your corps may even be at war, you still have to work together - or find some backstabbing ways to kick them off the planet. This sounds like endless potential for fun and drama. 3. Taxes. I have no problems with the tax system you proposed in null or in WH space. But I don't think the empires would tolerate any individuals to collect any taxes from their citizens. (Lowsec is also still claimed by those empires). To make profit of your population I would suggest something different: your population is a market for civil goods that you can sell for profit. The one thing that I felt was always wrong with Eve economy was that almost every item you could produce and sell was directly connected to warfare. You acquire weapons to claim space to get resources to build more weapons to defend this space to build even more weapons...etc etc etc. It should be much more profitable to sell billions of softdrinks or deodorants to the populations of several planets than selling a few hundred autocannons to a handful of capsuleers. So your PI model could open the door to civilian industry, the size of the population and the general wealth of the colony would determine how many of your goods you could sell to them in a given time - and the supply of civil goods will have a positive effect on population growth and overall efficiency of the colony. -.-
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 976	Posted - 2011.12.26 09:31:00 - [226] - Quote Zimmy Zeta wrote: I read everything and I must say, that was about 2 hours well spent. Some further suggestions / comments: 1. AFAIK Eve is supposed to run in "real time". So I find your growth rates a little off. 15% growth per downtime? Seriously? IMHO it would be more appropriate to have those growth rates on a "per month" base (still ridiculously high growth rate, but, hey, it's just a game) . Growing your cities should take much longer, but it would increase the immersion and give you a better feeling of accomplishment once you have created a metropolis. 2. Cooperation. I like this a lot. Like a second corp, you have to band together with people from other corps to keep the city running. Your corps may even be at war, you still have to work together - or find some backstabbing ways to kick them off the planet. This sounds like endless potential for fun and drama. 3. Taxes. I have no problems with the tax system you proposed in null or in WH space. But I don't think the empires would tolerate any individuals to collect any taxes from their citizens. (Lowsec is also still claimed by those empires). To make profit of your population I would suggest something different: your population is a market for civil goods that you can sell for profit. The one thing that I felt was always wrong with Eve economy was that almost every item you could produce and sell was directly connected to warfare. You acquire weapons to claim space to get resources to build more weapons to defend this space to build even more weapons...etc etc etc. It should be much more profitable to sell billions of softdrinks or deodorants to the populations of several planets than selling a few hundred autocannons to a handful of capsuleers. So your PI model could open the door to civilian industry, the size of the population and the general wealth of the colony would determine how many of your goods you could sell to them in a given time - and the supply of civil goods will have a positive effect on population growth and overall efficiency of the colony. 1) Bare in mind, the startinng point for all populations is the 500 settlers that comes with your command center. At an average increase of 55 - 90 settlers for the first few days/weeks (assuming you retain a 10% growth rate or more), it will take you ages to get somewhere meaningfull. Even at 100% tax rates, 50 000 isk a day is tantamount to a single mission from a lvl 1 agent each day. 2) I hope it will provide said drama and funzorz. 3) Also take into consideration, that before the players can collect any taxes from hi-sec/low-sec cities, the Empire will take their 50%/35%/25% cut. So your profit margins on tax up there isn't massive. Factor in operational costs on a daily basis and suddenly it would be like running a few havens a day and then losing ships in each one as you rat. But I am hoping we can expand this economy system to non combat items as you say. The problem will be in creating demand for it. If we modify the fuel requirements for cities to include soft drinks, water, exotic dancers and what not, then we could accomplish this. The Assembly Hall version of this topic has more detail than the few pages in this topic.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1019	Posted - 2012.01.01 09:15:00 - [227] - Quote Bump for 2012 comments and feedback!
Theta Eridani SON OF RAVANA Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers 0	Posted - 2012.01.05 20:29:00 - [228] - Quote +1
tankus2 Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension 25	Posted - 2012.01.06 22:09:00 - [229] - Quote Return this to the front page, pass go and collect 200 isk Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1087	Posted - 2012.01.13 20:01:00 - [230] - Quote Bump for moar feedback!

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1149	Posted - 2012.02.03 05:53:00 - [231] - Quote Feb bump
Kamuria Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 10	Posted - 2012.02.03 11:06:00 - [232] - Quote I didn't read a thing, however i'm pretty sure your ideas would bring more micromanagement to PI and that would kill it for me.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1150	Posted - 2012.02.03 14:36:00 - [233] - Quote Kamuria wrote: I didn't read a thing, however i'm pretty sure your ideas would bring more micromanagement to PI and that would kill it for me. That is why you fail young grasshopper. This suggestion does not increase the amount of management or time investment needed to run PI beyond what it is now. This suggestion will allow you to do PI exactly as you do it now if you do not wish to pursue a more in depth PI experience by setting up cities or expanding your networks to include other types.. It basically increases the varied PI experience while retaining the current time investment requirement and managerial overheads of PI.
Decus Revaen Omegacron Corporation 0	Posted - 2012.02.03 22:01:00 - [234] - Quote One interesting possibility to think of, would be adding the ability to launch an entire asteroid at a planet's surface. This would be used to distract the ground-based weapons temporarily in order to allow to escape. An example of this would be a dreadnought pilot accidentally flew too close to the planet's atmosphere and is unable tank all the damage from the ground-based weapons, a nearby ship could launch an asteroid towards the planet in order to get the ground-based weapons to shot at the asteroid instead of dreadnought. This would allow a 3-5 second pause in damage being done to dreadnought allowing it to survive for longer. Of course this would require a capital industrial ship to hold the asteroid as well several miners to maneuver the asteroid into capital industrial ship's cargohold. Well, that is all for my idea.
Miss Whippy Bloody Limeys 64	Posted - 2012.02.05 19:24:00 - [235] - Quote Will read this fully another time. I fully support the idea of PI being some kind of Sim City. PI is currently so utterly dull, and planets should be a MUCH larger part of the game. The PI expansion was the one that made me quit originally, when I decided that CCP has finally stopped caring. Crucible brought me back, and changes as amazing as this would keep me playing. Hell, in a perfect world PI would be a clone of 'Supreme Commander'. That universe would fit very well with EvE as well. +1,000,000
Klytior Am'jarhs Amarrian Retribution 4	Posted - 2012.02.05 20:21:00 - [236] - Quote Great idea... Let's build it and test to see if it works
Miss Whippy Bloody Limeys 65	Posted - 2012.02.08 21:31:00 - [237] - Quote I would LOVE to know if the Devs would give this ideas some serious consideration. As other people have said, this is what PI should have been like form the start. PI is currently a HEART-BREAKING waste of an opportunity. It's a lame and largely meaningless profession, which involves no interaction with other players, and is pitiful the face of all the potential amazing stuff PI could involve. I imagine they're all busy fixing EvE right now, but would a Dev at least let us know if they are taking this ideas seriously for the future?
tankus2 HeartVenom Inc. 30	Posted - 2012.02.16 03:47:00 - [238] - Quote what's this? PI threads are beginning to crop up and this sits back ten pages? frontpage naow! Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1195	Posted - 2012.02.27 20:11:00 - [239] - Quote Bump
Derth Ramir Hellion Evolution 12	Posted - 2012.02.28 05:12:00 - [240] - Quote Even though I will most likely never participate in PI this idea makes me **** my pants. Eve needs more ideas like this that make it the ultimate space game. +1

The Hamilton The Watchmen Enterprises Apocalypse Now. 2	Posted - 2012.02.28 12:52:00 - [241] - Quote +1 this thread, a thousand times and beyond!
Jace Errata Lawlz Brawlz 109	Posted - 2012.03.01 09:58:00 - [242] - Quote Bumping for awesome. Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
Colonel Sieg Stark Industriez Stark Enterprises 0	Posted - 2012.03.01 10:13:00 - [243] - Quote Bump +1 This is the thread of a visionary!
tankus2 HeartVenom Inc. 34	Posted - 2012.03.01 17:09:00 - [244] - Quote I've cooked up an idea for social and perhaps civilian PI (unless these have already been discussed, been a while), which is to have race-specific command centers. Function-wise, they will be very similar, but perhaps taking a note from POS towers they can have different stats that, while giving each one a strength, also doesn't go as far as to make one 'the choice' over the others. The most important thing here is that these structures take the aesthetics of their race and paints it all over themselves as well as the structures they support. For walking around on these planets, it would give a great amount of diversity than samey-same everything, though having only four styles of the same place can still get old. Just not as fast. Where the science gets done
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks 30	Posted - 2012.03.01 17:51:00 - [245] - Quote I haven't read the whole lot yet but what I have read I like. +1
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1261	Posted - 2012.03.01 18:06:00 - [246] - Quote tankus2 wrote: I've cooked up an idea for social and perhaps civilian PI (unless these have already been discussed, been a while), which is to have race-specific command centers. Function-wise, they will be very similar, but perhaps taking a note from POS towers they can have different stats that, while giving each one a strength, also doesn't go as far as to make one 'the choice' over the others. The most important thing here is that these structures take the aesthetics of their race and paints it all over themselves as well as the structures they support. For walking around on these planets, it would give a great amount of diversity than samey-same everything, though having only four styles of the same place can still get old. Just not as fast. I like that facet. Different aesthetics, different bonuses and or by products with different fuel requirements. This could even be extended perhaps to remove fuel requirements for certain buildings and add them to the network fuel requirements for a more uniformed/standardized approach. But I believe were bordering on art department territory now. Maybe we could get some concept sketches going or something?
Gempei Siberian Khatru. Shadow Operations. 32	Posted - 2012.04.02 11:49:00 - [247] - Quote +1 bump
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 25	Posted - 2012.04.03 15:34:00 - [248] - Quote On the thought that CCP seems to like adding story telling elements driven by players. Perhaps the treatment of population on planets could cause mass migration and result in massive shifts in the value of systems, services offered in stations, number of rats, occurrence in incursions and so on. Some what of a massive tide that slowly gets pushed around New Eden to keep any one place from being worth too much or becoming too unbalanced. Just by the way players treat their colonies. Also on an even more ridiculous note. I want Orbital Colonies too. From these you could provide your own faction rats in null to try and protect your gates and systems from unwanted visitors. For the enemy, destroying these rats just brings more rats, so they are forced to do something about the Orbital Colony (not sure just what though) giving rise to more PvP more often as you try to defend your little Orbital Colony. These could also act as a learning curve for real POS set ups and provide a small place to reside for the WH nomad. Keep them easy to destroy but build able from a planet surface. If you don't want one around, or your enemy to get one, send some Dust mercs to finish it off. Even pushing it further, perhaps it could also provide a better way to remove and relocate PI materials than the current customs office. These should also be limited in number, the same as command centres (only 1?).
tankus2 HeartVenom Inc. 42	Posted - 2012.04.03 23:54:00 - [249] - Quote would certainly add even more spice to the wide galaxy of Eve, but I'd like to add a twist: You have to provide ships for your rats or they do bugger-all. These ships will be cheaper to build, but can't be flown by pod-pilots (players) and are even easier to kill. They are vulnerable to wardecs but can achieve objectives with limited success, being less capable than a proper pod-pilot. So yes, they can mine, trade, and fight, but it will take them MUCH longer to achieve anything and even fifty of them vs a pod-pilot all in combat ships will see the pilot win out. Where the science gets done
Niko DelValle Promethium Corp. 0	Posted - 2012.04.04 03:22:00 - [250] - Quote If I may add to the OP, it would also be neat if the soldier count (as suggested in the original thread) could somehow tie into how many soldiers can be deployed via Dust. Maybe somehow fluctuate the score a team has to attain in more death-match oriented modes to win control.

The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 33	Posted - 2012.04.05 13:25:00 - [251] - Quote tankus2 wrote: would certainly add even more spice to the wide galaxy of Eve, but I'd like to add a twist: You have to provide ships for your rats or they do bugger-all. These ships will be cheaper to build, but can't be flown by pod-pilots (players) and are even easier to kill. They are vulnerable to wardecs but can achieve objectives with limited success, being less capable than a proper pod-pilot. So yes, they can mine, trade, and fight, but it will take them MUCH longer to achieve anything and even fifty of them vs a pod-pilot all in combat ships will see the pilot win out. I like it, I like it. The owned rats thing could go very far. But has a big hurdle to jump just in getting player support as it would initially seem game breaking and detract from PVP. But carefully planed with strong limits to rat numbers owned as well as usable in systems under one corp and one alliance should help hold it back from becoming a bad mechanic. This would also provide a feeling of owning your own private fleet without being an Alliance leader. El Diablito07 had the idea of giving players AI helpers for missions. Which on it's surface seems silly if you have so many players to join up with. But does give a sense of a living universe. I'd like the idea more if instead of just helpers, they were assets for your home system. Not companions, since they should be cannon fodder most of the time. But a little extra fire power or a distraction for enemy rats. High-sec could have even greater limits on owned rats, due to the larger number of occupants living in there. Heck even 5 that do next to nothing, but give you that extra little help while your playing would be nice. Where as null-sec may focus them more towards early warning and protection systems. Imagine if you had no local. But you were notified when your rat was shot down on a gate. You'd know someone / something was there and could act in accordance. My biggest concern is making sure Bots and Blob battles don't end up using these.
Iosue 0verload. IMPERIAL LEGI0N 85	Posted - 2012.04.05 14:48:00 - [252] - Quote some great ideas here. i fully support this feature for PI. CCP please consider this for implementation!!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1371	Posted - 2012.04.05 16:32:00 - [253] - Quote The Hamilton wrote: tankus2 wrote: would certainly add even more spice to the wide galaxy of Eve, but I'd like to add a twist: You have to provide ships for your rats or they do bugger-all. These ships will be cheaper to build, but can't be flown by pod-pilots (players) and are even easier to kill. They are vulnerable to wardecs but can achieve objectives with limited success, being less capable than a proper pod-pilot. So yes, they can mine, trade, and fight, but it will take them MUCH longer to achieve anything and even fifty of them vs a pod-pilot all in combat ships will see the pilot win out. I like it, I like it. The owned rats thing could go very far. But has a big hurdle to jump just in getting player support as it would initially seem game breaking and detract from PVP. But carefully planed with strong limits to rat numbers owned as well as usable in systems under one corp and one alliance should help hold it back from becoming a bad mechanic. This would also provide a feeling of owning your own private fleet without being an Alliance leader. El Diablito07 had the idea of giving players AI helpers for missions. Which on it's surface seems silly if you have so many players to join up with. But does give a sense of a living universe. I'd like the idea more if instead of just helpers, they were assets for your home system. Not companions, since they should be cannon fodder most of the time. But a little extra fire power or a distraction for enemy rats. High-sec could have even greater limits on owned rats, due to the larger number of occupants living in there. Heck even 5 that do next to nothing, but give you that extra little help while your playing would be nice. Where as null-sec may focus them more towards early warning and protection systems. Imagine if you had no local. But you were notified when your rat was shot down on a gate. You'd know someone / something was there and could act in accordance. My biggest concern is making sure Bots and Blob battles don't end up using these. See, I dont really bite into that whole "it'l break PvP" argument they enjoy throwing around. Right now, PI has no PVP.... It doesnt even have PvE. If CCP were to incorporate player owned rats/missions/military NPCs for PI networks as defenses, it will only add to PvP/PvE elsewhere, such as Dust. Personally, I'm very fond of the idea of adding WiS missions that you do with your avatar. Add Armor and sidearms and the ability to fit these to your character. Give your character a HP and a damage value based on your fittings and off you go to a world of WiS PvE/PvP. Having NPC helpers or player/corp/alliance owned rats is nothing more than an expansion on what is already in place. I don't see players moaning about NPC bots in Battlefield multiplayer games, so I can't for the love of me see why they would moan about it in Eve.
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 36	Posted - 2012.04.05 16:56:00 - [254] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: The Hamilton wrote: tankus2 wrote: would certainly add even more spice to the wide galaxy of Eve, but I'd like to add a twist: You have to provide ships for your rats or they do bugger-all. These ships will be cheaper to build, but can't be flown by pod-pilots (players) and are even easier to kill. They are vulnerable to wardecs but can achieve objectives with limited success, being less capable than a proper pod-pilot. So yes, they can mine, trade, and fight, but it will take them MUCH longer to achieve anything and even fifty of them vs a pod-pilot all in combat ships will see the pilot win out. I like it, I like it. The owned rats thing could go very far. But has a big hurdle to jump just in getting player support as it would initially seem game breaking and detract from PVP. But carefully planed with strong limits to rat numbers owned as well as usable in systems under one corp and one alliance should help hold it back from becoming a bad mechanic. This would also provide a feeling of owning your own private fleet without being an Alliance leader. El Diablito07 had the idea of giving players AI helpers for missions. Which on it's surface seems silly if you have so many players to join up with. But does give a sense of a living universe. I'd like the idea more if instead of just helpers, they were assets for your home system. Not companions, since they should be cannon fodder most of the time. But a little extra fire power or a distraction for enemy rats. High-sec could have even greater limits on owned rats, due to the larger number of occupants living in there. Heck even 5 that do next to nothing, but give you that extra little help while your playing would be nice. Where as null-sec may focus them more towards early warning and protection systems. Imagine if you had no local. But you were notified when your rat was shot down on a gate. You'd know someone / something was there and could act in accordance. My biggest concern is making sure Bots and Blob battles don't end up using these. See, I dont really bite into that whole "it'l break PvP" argument they enjoy throwing around. Right now, PI has no PVP.... It doesnt even have PvE. If CCP were to incorporate player owned rats/missions/military NPCs for PI networks as defenses, it will only add to PvP/PvE elsewhere, such as Dust. Personally, I'm very fond of the idea of adding WiS missions that you do with your avatar. Add Armor and sidearms and the ability to fit these to your character. Give your character a HP and a damage value based on your fittings and off you go to a world of WiS PvE/PvP. Having NPC helpers or player/corp/alliance owned rats is nothing more than an expansion on what is already in place. I don't see players moaning about NPC bots in Battlefield multiplayer games, so I can't for the love of me see why they would moan about it in Eve. Bad or not, the full idea is that you train these people in an orbital colony, buy them crappy ships and fit them out with cheap gear then assign them simple tasks (Such as [camp this gate], [mine these asteroids] or [deliver these goods and come home]. Maybe even [protect this player]). Very complex "fighters" that are static to a system or a series of systems as long as you own orbital colonies within the system. If by assigning these to players, makes normal space PvP unbalanced, these players will get angry that they have to participate in the subset game of PI and the further subset of PI (orbital colonies) just to be good at PvP.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1374	Posted - 2012.04.05 17:00:00 - [255] - Quote The Hamilton wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: The Hamilton wrote: tankus2 wrote: would certainly add even more spice to the wide galaxy of Eve, but I'd like to add a twist: You have to provide ships for your rats or they do bugger-all. These ships will be cheaper to build, but can't be flown by pod-pilots (players) and are even easier to kill. They are vulnerable to wardecs but can achieve objectives with limited success, being less capable than a proper pod-pilot. So yes, they can mine, trade, and fight, but it will take them MUCH longer to achieve anything and even fifty of them vs a pod-pilot all in combat ships will see the pilot win out. I like it, I like it. The owned rats thing could go very far. But has a big hurdle to jump just in getting player support as it would initially seem game breaking and detract from PVP. But carefully planed with strong limits to rat numbers owned as well as usable in systems under one corp and one alliance should help hold it back from becoming a bad mechanic. This would also provide a feeling of owning your own private fleet without being an Alliance leader. El Diablito07 had the idea of giving players AI helpers for missions. Which on it's surface seems silly if you have so many players to join up with. But does give a sense of a living universe. I'd like the idea more if instead of just helpers, they were assets for your home system. Not companions, since they should be cannon fodder most of the time. But a little extra fire power or a distraction for enemy rats. High-sec could have even greater limits on owned rats, due to the larger number of occupants living in there. Heck even 5 that do next to nothing, but give you that extra little help while your playing would be nice. Where as null-sec may focus them more towards early warning and protection systems. Imagine if you had no local. But you were notified when your rat was shot down on a gate. You'd know someone / something was there and could act in accordance. My biggest concern is making sure Bots and Blob battles don't end up using these. See, I dont really bite into that whole "it'l break PvP" argument they enjoy throwing around. Right now, PI has no PVP.... It doesnt even have PvE. If CCP were to incorporate player owned rats/missions/military NPCs for PI networks as defenses, it will only add to PvP/PvE elsewhere, such as Dust. Personally, I'm very fond of the idea of adding WiS missions that you do with your avatar. Add Armor and sidearms and the ability to fit these to your character. Give your character a HP and a damage value based on your fittings and off you go to a world of WiS PvE/PvP. Having NPC helpers or player/corp/alliance owned rats is nothing more than an expansion on what is already in place. I don't see players moaning about NPC bots in Battlefield multiplayer games, so I can't for the love of me see why they would moan about it in Eve. Bad or not, the full idea is that you train these people in an orbital colony, buy them crappy ships and fit them out with cheap gear then assign them simple tasks (Such as [camp this gate], [mine these asteroids] or [deliver these goods and come home]. Maybe even [protect this player]). Very complex "fighters" that are static to a system or a series of systems as long as you own orbital colonies within the system. If by assigning these to players, makes normal space PvP unbalanced, these players will get angry that they have to participate in the subset game of PI and the further subset of PI (orbital colonies) just to be good at PvP. I think that idea would just own. The only way I see this effecting spaceboat PvP is by giving them more weak targets to gank. Its not like our player/corp/alliance owned NPCs will start grabbing sovereignty or anything.... And I think it'l be nice to have some alliance owned NPC customs agents or security guarding your stargates/belts/freighters/miners/outposts/towers/planets for a price every day....
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 36	Posted - 2012.04.05 17:06:00 - [256] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: I think that idea would just own. The only way I see this effecting spaceboat PvP is by giving them more weak targets to gank. Its not like our player/corp/alliance owned NPCs will start grabbing sovereignty or anything.... And I think it'l be nice to have some alliance owned NPC customs agents or security guarding your stargates/belts/freighters/miners/outposts/towers/planets for a price every day.... Further on that, these rats could give a picture in picture view of other places in the system to help know your place is safe with REAL intel instead of local. Anyway I've taken this WAY off topic. So back to PI!....
Cyber SGB Pack of Roid Rats GekkoState. 3	Posted - 2012.04.05 19:16:00 - [257] - Quote Sorry for not reading everything, I am getting ready for work. If this was done, my character would become completely invested in Planetary Interaction as I orginally intended. I would move to Lowsec right away and begin working on this, provided it could be done in Lowsec. +1 I would put more than +1 but that would be cheating. +10,000 What the hell I will cheat.
Niko DelValle Promethium Corp. 2	Posted - 2012.04.05 19:35:00 - [258] - Quote Cyber SGB wrote: +10,000 What the hell I will cheat. But... that's OVER 9000!!!! lol
Quade Warren Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance 9	Posted - 2012.04.05 20:12:00 - [259] - Quote Azziej wrote: Your PI 2.0 is a fantasy story and that's exactly why i bring elves, dwarfs and orcs up. Science fiction is based on advanced technologies that are very much possible to happen in a short or long period of time. Do you see us on planet earth being told what to do and pay tax to a plonker in a space ship??? I find it so incredibly sad that people are adding so much freaking fantasy to the genre. Actually, science fiction is fantasy and fantasy is science fiction. They are a part of the same genre as far as literature is concerned because they use several of the same literary devices, especially estrangement. What you are describing is commonly referred to as "hard sci-fi." It is not limited to advanced technologies whatsoever, that is just your preferred medium to read. I understand your trepidation, but innovation cannot be stifled by a sense of tradition. Eve must innovate and this seems as good a way to do it as any.
Xemnus Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients. 5	Posted - 2012.04.06 13:49:00 - [260] - Quote I actually thought about making a forum post about a buying temporary NPC pilots or fulltime NPC pilots to actually handle some things for you. Even help you in missions if needed. If the next expansion is going to be war driven, lets give people the option to never travel alone. Kind of like a SWTOR companion.

Quade Warren Urban Mining Corp Rising Phoenix Alliance 16	Posted - 2012.04.14 20:30:00 - [261] - Quote bump for thoughtfulness
Wolodymyr Breaking Ambitions Solid Foundation 116	Posted - 2012.04.15 18:16:00 - [262] - Quote OK guys I'd be really worried about adding in NPC dudes in an MMO. Ideally if you are talking about a role that is filled with an NPC like your SWTOR companion, that role should be filled by an actual person. It's an MMO after all you should have people interacting with other people, not surrounding themselves with NPCs. Remember we are going to have a lot of Dust players out there, and they could handle all of these planet side roles you keep talking about. And yeah the boring jobs, like space janitor, or farmer or whatever, should be done by NPCs but any activity that could be interesting should be handled by real people. OK back to PI I just wanted to say that currently the biggest disconnect with CCP's plans for Dust and the current realities of Eve PI are in how permanent structures are. In the Fanfest Dust presentation they talked about these giant hexagon shaped districts that people would fight over and claim. This made it sound like taking over land would be this slow process where giant empires would grind each other down, and make their districts into reinforced strongholds. However your average eve player doing PI spends most of their time chasing down red and white bobs of resources that are constantly shifting all over the planet. First you plop down your command center somewhere (it's really not important). Then you set up some extractors, factories, and a launch pad on the resource blob of the day and start up a job. Then in a few days you tear down your set up and set up another one over the next resource hot spot.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1415	Posted - 2012.04.15 18:49:00 - [263] - Quote Wolodymyr wrote: Then in a few days you tear down your set up and set up another one over the next resource hot spot. If you have to do that your doing it wrong, esp in 0.0 or whs.
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 37	Posted - 2012.04.16 19:10:00 - [264] - Quote Wolodymyr wrote: OK guys I'd be really worried about adding in NPC dudes in an MMO. Ideally if you are talking about a role that is filled with an NPC like your SWTOR companion, that role should be filled by an actual person. It's an MMO after all you should have people interacting with other people, not surrounding themselves with NPCs. Remember we are going to have a lot of Dust players out there, and they could handle all of these planet side roles you keep talking about. And yeah the boring jobs, like space janitor, or farmer or whatever, should be done by NPCs but any activity that could be interesting should be handled by real people. OK back to PI I just wanted to say that currently the biggest disconnect with CCP's plans for Dust and the current realities of Eve PI are in how permanent structures are. In the Fanfest Dust presentation they talked about these giant hexagon shaped districts that people would fight over and claim. This made it sound like taking over land would be this slow process where giant empires would grind each other down, and make their districts into reinforced strongholds. However your average eve player doing PI spends most of their time chasing down red and white bobs of resources that are constantly shifting all over the planet. First you plop down your command center somewhere (it's really not important). Then you set up some extractors, factories, and a launch pad on the resource blob of the day and start up a job. Then in a few days you tear down your set up and set up another one over the next resource hot spot. Great input. I actually mostly agree with you about the NPC helper situation. For some reason I seem to be okay with the idea should they remain static to the system they get built in. I.E. They can't use gates. They would fill a very minor support role for the solo miners / ratters and add just smidgen more punch to the home team defence, but also require set up and training time before this can be done. Also very limited in number per system and you are required that you hold SOV. This would hold back the proliferation of helper NPC's like in SW:TOR filling the game world, while spicing null just a tad. Mean while since Fanfest has been and gone, I too feel like the direction Dust is going compared to the current PI makes little to no sense. But CCP do seem committed to changing and updating Dust with EVE as they grow, so the two things may become more connected over time. It's just a shame it won't be like this on launch. I personally almost never tear any PI structures down, but the freedom to chuck my Command centre could tie into Dust a lot more easily. Just make it so the command centre must take one of these rare and heavily fought for spots. This would mean a maximum of three players could use any one planets and even friends within alliances could end up fighting over a spot by "bidding" (and having troops die without any real reason). The best planets would go to the highest bidder. Unfortunately to make your money back would require holding it for some time (who knows you may never break even).
hellwarz Rising Thunder 0	Posted - 2012.04.23 22:50:00 - [265] - Quote i would like to see some thing like this +1
tankus2 HeartVenom Inc. 50	Posted - 2012.04.24 23:35:00 - [266] - Quote hopefully will be discussed on Bigcountry's show here in an hour or so... Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1431	Posted - 2012.04.25 04:46:00 - [267] - Quote So was it discussed?
tankus2 HeartVenom Inc. 50	Posted - 2012.04.26 00:33:00 - [268] - Quote when BC saw the fact that it was 14 posts long, he said 'no'. I tried to convince him to talk about it, but no go :( Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1431	Posted - 2012.04.26 04:40:00 - [269] - Quote tankus2 wrote: when BC saw the fact that it was 14 posts long, he said 'no'. I tried to convince him to talk about it, but no go :( Then its a good thing he wasn't shown the assembly hall's pdf
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1436	Posted - 2012.05.02 15:22:00 - [270] - Quote To whom it may concern... I've started drafting the PI 2.2 pdf... New additions include: Incarna 2.0 gameplay on planets + moons Incarna based missions within city districts Incarna missions outside of city limits (lvl 4s and 5s) Incarna based incursions Incarna armor fittings for avatars (snap on/ship fitting style) Incarna weapon fittings for avatars (snap on/ship style) Incarna interiors in cities and individual networks PI 2.1 Building revisions/expansions

Afaflix Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2012.05.02 19:30:00 - [271] - Quote I'd buy that game.
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 603	Posted - 2012.05.04 05:38:00 - [272] - Quote This idea is still epic, and still needs some love and support. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
The Hamilton Definitive Exploration and Excavations The Watchmen. 40	Posted - 2012.05.19 09:31:00 - [273] - Quote How's the PI 2.2 design coming along? Would love to read it.
Easthir Ravin Easy Co. Fatal Ascension 14	Posted - 2012.05.19 11:04:00 - [274] - Quote Greetings Bump for the effort of a grand scheme! +1 vr East IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!"
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1466	Posted - 2012.05.19 12:59:00 - [275] - Quote The Hamilton wrote: How's the PI 2.2 design coming along? Would love to read it. It will be a few weeks at the rate things are going. Diablo 3 is stealing my free time...
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1503	Posted - 2012.06.01 17:08:00 - [276] - Quote Bump
Harmuul The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.06.02 19:56:00 - [277] - Quote Outstanding! To make this real, I think we should push for the approach CCP took to make Dust. 1) Flesh it out to create a solid standalone game that shares PI, Incarna, EveVoice, Corp structure, etc with Eve/Dust. One that can be expanded through semi annual updates to grow with and grow closer to Eve/Dust. 2) Don't drastically change the other New Eden games, just create a conduit for another unseen aspect: Life on a planet. 3) Have a 3rd party developer build it with CCP's direction. Hell, as far as funding goes, you could use Kickstarter for all I care. I can definitely say that a pitch like this would have my donation!
Nikodiemus Jokulhlaup 26	Posted - 2012.06.02 21:46:00 - [278] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Wrote PI stuff. It's brilliant and well thought out. Hire this person and/or implement the changes. Seriously, lots of good stuff here.
Harmuul The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.06.02 22:03:00 - [279] - Quote Even if one isn't into this sort of thing, as a capsuleer this would be full of benefits... At the very least the wine, soldiers, miners, cattle, medical supplies or whatever that's in your hanger would have value as cities would buy them. Looking deeper, what I love most about this is that events and situations that are alluded to in missions (medicine for plagues, capturing/freeing slaves, etc) and possibly even the IC (defecting scientists and such) can gradually become player driven as one moves away from highsec. Nulsec could use the variety, I think. As a marine, one might eventually hope for a close quarters update allowing for cities to defend themselves from orbital bombardments AND surface attacks. I love the idea, Asuka!
Aselox Dallcort LA MEGADITTA Test Friends Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2012.06.03 21:01:00 - [280] - Quote Wow, this is absolutely amazing. Great job Asuka, CCP should hire you as Game Designer +1000000

Frying Doom Zat's Affiliated Traders 392	Posted - 2012.07.10 09:19:00 - [281] - Quote Shameless bump for so many likes. Should not be on page 30 Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Tokamuria Violent Alternatives C0NVICTED 1	Posted - 2012.07.10 11:59:00 - [282] - Quote Love it! How about something that requires or benefits from all of those Soldiers, Slaves, Tourists and so on found in some missions and on the market? Something like: Sure, the city generates 'x' numbers of 'y', but for your project you can speed it up by dropping more of 'y' into the city/
Busta Rock The DawnSoarers 9	Posted - 2012.07.10 23:54:00 - [283] - Quote I love this concept. though I don't particularly like being restricted to a single atmospheric interface point for entering or leaving a planetary envelope via ship. but then, I've always detested the.. staticness of eve navigational references. consider this a +1
Viktor Fyretracker Emminent Terraforming 35	Posted - 2012.07.11 00:12:00 - [284] - Quote one thing to insure good Dust interaction is a well defended planet should be completely impossible to crack without boots on the ground. in other words the STO guns would be capable of instant popping titans and the shields able to stand up to repeated DDD strikes. Unless of course your dust marines go in and disable the systems allowing you to take control of the command centers. EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,-á There is however a catch...-á The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1558	Posted - 2012.07.11 05:58:00 - [285] - Quote Busta Rock wrote: I love this concept. though I don't particularly like being restricted to a single atmospheric interface point for entering or leaving a planetary envelope via ship. but then, I've always detested the.. staticness of eve navigational references. consider this a +1 This idea is simply using existing game mechanics with regards to star gate and cyno travel mechanisms. I would not object to player chosen points of entry/exit from planets at all. In fact, I would prefer it. It would limit Atmospheric non consensual PvP, but then again, who said that was supposed to be fair....
Frying Doom Zat's Affiliated Traders 399	Posted - 2012.07.12 02:30:00 - [286] - Quote Again a great idea and actually worth resources. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Nikko Jiangtibayan Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 15	Posted - 2012.08.01 09:50:00 - [287] - Quote Last post is last month? This will not do. Reaffirming a previous +1, and bumping. Hello...mate.
Qvar Dar'Zanar EVE University Ivy League 83	Posted - 2012.08.01 12:16:00 - [288] - Quote I love it.
Tex' Winchester Stormcloak Legion 18	Posted - 2012.08.04 11:52:00 - [289] - Quote This idea is absolutely brilliant. I wouldn't even call it an idea, this is a fully worked out concept that would bring a whole new dimension to Eve Online, specially with Dust coming. Having seen the EVE Forever trailers that CCP has been releasing since 2011 (i believe) shows the Goals and motivation that CCP has, and i have no doubt that in these next few years EVE/DUST will become the biggest MMO experience ever. (WOW, Tera, even GW2 will be like little peanuts compared to this) Azuka Solo i believe that you should definitely be working with CCP. Big BUMP, to the best thread i've ever seen on this forums.
Gempei CHAOS SQUAD Shadow Operations. 32	Posted - 2012.08.07 08:46:00 - [290] - Quote friendly bump

Miss Everest Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.08.07 22:47:00 - [291] - Quote You have thought this through. It deserves to be put in especially since you detailed everything so well! Great job!
Dersen Lowery Knavery Inc. StructureDamage 60	Posted - 2012.08.07 23:13:00 - [292] - Quote All of this, plus the idea of drone-like NPCs for menial tasks, fits in beautifully with the vision of "cities" of multiple stations anchored near each other articulated in the CSM summit report. A dozen or so gleaming stations, with civilian cargo and passenger ships cutting paths between them and a cloud of capsuleer ships around them, anchored to a planet bright with life. Additional logistics and commuter ships connecting the station-city to the planet. The whole thing fueled by in-game extraction, manufacturing and commerce, and defended (and attacked) by EVE players in space and DUST players on the ground. It would be magnificent.
tankus2 The Peace Keepers Guardian Knights Citizens 55	Posted - 2012.08.09 22:54:00 - [293] - Quote added magnificence: planet-to-orbit elevators (either the traditional cable kind or gravity lifts) Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1630	Posted - 2012.08.10 05:50:00 - [294] - Quote tankus2 wrote: added magnificence: planet-to-orbit elevators (either the traditional cable kind or gravity lifts) What do they connect to tho? Stations? Other orbital installations?
tankus2 The Peace Keepers Guardian Knights Citizens 55	Posted - 2012.08.11 04:13:00 - [295] - Quote yes? Where the science gets done
Loius Woo PATRIOT KNIGHTS 133	Posted - 2012.08.11 04:18:00 - [296] - Quote Ive read the manifesto. I like the idea. CCP, this should be your third game. Walking on planets, smuggling like Han Solo, trying to ignore the greater goings on of the galaxy but pulled in to a larger conflict. This is what EVE was born to accomplish. I will wait the next decade to hear that you are going to tackle this idea.
Hans Zwaardhandler Borealis Mining Concern IMPERIAL LEGI0N 17	Posted - 2012.08.11 18:24:00 - [297] - Quote This is a wonderful set of ideas, I like them quite a bit. Definitely support them.
Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 758	Posted - 2012.08.12 00:32:00 - [298] - Quote +1 It's not a jesus feature! It's iteration!
Tanaka Aiko ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation 104	Posted - 2012.08.12 01:06:00 - [299] - Quote this is close to what I was hoping when CCP told us about PI... so +1
Dersen Lowery Knavery Inc. StructureDamage 63	Posted - 2012.08.13 16:20:00 - [300] - Quote Katrina Oniseki wrote: +1 It's not a jesus feature! It's iteration! I'm going to call it a "jesus iteration."

Herping yourDerp Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 638	Posted - 2012.08.13 18:25:00 - [301] - Quote this thread is still going? I still think the PI management should be like sim city or something. well, since its a dictatorship more like Tropico!
Loius Woo PATRIOT KNIGHTS 148	Posted - 2012.08.13 19:37:00 - [302] - Quote WIth DUST coming, and plans to allow dust players to set up planetary structures of their own, how would you handle the interaction of the two player types acting on the same planetary surface? Also, there is no reason whatsoever for not allowing full PI on all moons. This could be how moon mining is changed...and allow DUST mercs to mine moons too...and capture them as well.
Lateris Posiden Industrial 11	Posted - 2012.08.13 20:25:00 - [303] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: WIth DUST coming, and plans to allow dust players to set up planetary structures of their own, how would you handle the interaction of the two player types acting on the same planetary surface? Also, there is no reason whatsoever for not allowing full PI on all moons. This could be how moon mining is changed...and allow DUST mercs to mine moons too...and capture them as well. I have to agree. PI needs to not be a half finished product within New Eden.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1674	Posted - 2012.09.04 11:51:00 - [304] - Quote September Bump
Oberine Noriepa 907	Posted - 2012.09.04 15:29:00 - [305] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: WIth DUST coming, and plans to allow dust players to set up planetary structures of their own, how would you handle the interaction of the two player types acting on the same planetary surface? Also, there is no reason whatsoever for not allowing full PI on all moons. This could be how moon mining is changed...and allow DUST mercs to mine moons too...and capture them as well. I think this is a great idea.
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 56	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:13:00 - [306] - Quote or you can leave planets to us EVErs and moons to DUSTers Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1675	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:16:00 - [307] - Quote tankus2 wrote: or you can leave planets to us EVErs and moons to DUSTers Or Eve and Dust players could inhabit both at the same time....
Loius Woo PATRIOT KNIGHTS 203	Posted - 2012.09.04 20:20:00 - [308] - Quote tankus2 wrote: or you can leave planets to us EVErs and moons to DUSTers I don't think there is any logical reason for keeping them separate. Also, if they WERE to be separate, it would go the other way around (Eve on moons and DUST on planets) just because Eve players already have spaceships to move around in, and DUST is only starting out on planets with moons being a maybe soon thing.
Alx Warlord The Scope Gallente Federation 153	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:02:00 - [309] - Quote Dust messed things up here... time for a review PI 3.0 ? [Discussion] - New POS System (Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft)
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1675	Posted - 2012.09.04 21:35:00 - [310] - Quote 2.2 is still in the pipeline... But I've also been pondering a few overhauls myself in light of our Dust compatriots joining us.

Lateris Posiden Industrial 12	Posted - 2012.09.06 22:44:00 - [311] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: 2.2 is still in the pipeline... But I've also been pondering a few overhauls myself in light of our Dust compatriots joining us. Such as space elevators?
Ellariona The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire 13	Posted - 2012.09.06 23:19:00 - [312] - Quote Azziej wrote: so, let me get this right... As a capsuleer you are already immortal and may call yourself a god if you will. (lovely intro movie when you start the game for the first time). But now you actually want to Qadhafify yourself to rule your own planet???? Come on how much more unrealistic can it get. I beg you all to keep science fiction possible and not start adding elves and dwarfes and orcs into the game.... THANK YOU!!! it's Gaddafi @OP, nice work! [liked and bumped]
Souisa WESCORP 2.0 1	Posted - 2012.09.07 07:04:00 - [313] - Quote How do these mini games tie into the general EVE experience? Dont you think its a little too NPC and singleplayer oriented? I just worry its not going to tie into the EVE experience and will create this kind of split up community where both parts are gonna end up disappointed
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 11	Posted - 2012.09.07 12:49:00 - [314] - Quote There is problem with all ideas with showing surface procedural generated cities, showing everything PI oriented and even DUST battlegrounds. EVE online don't have rigid planet surfaces. All planets, not only gas giants, and ocean planets. There is no procedural generation in surface curvature (i believe there are some traces of procedural generation in texture) and there is no physics for planet surface. Also, when you try to fly atmospheric flight you can notice that texture of planet surface is lacking details, showed texture is low detail, and looks realy bad. So, you can't show it to people. High detail procedural generation and rendering is quite heavy at player end. If Dev team could make totally different, and realy good algorithm, making good use of graphic cards like shown in Sansha carrier surface generation, joining together couple of techniques used to render surface with procedural generation, smoothly generated on today player machines, we could be playing whole different game, a masterpiece in programming sense. There are demos on you tube of Science Engine that are showing briefly what you can get with good skills. Alternatively predefined patterns of surface could be used, that are joined together, then settings for each planet could be exported. Again, you could make low poly terrain that is low on data used to create, and not so good looking, but playable at low end machines. There is also another way of showing things, when you are "transported" to the locations predefined, with not showing generating it smoothly as you approach it. Add some loading screens and you are good to go.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1683	Posted - 2012.09.07 15:23:00 - [315] - Quote Lateris wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: 2.2 is still in the pipeline... But I've also been pondering a few overhauls myself in light of our Dust compatriots joining us. Such as space elevators? Actually, no. I've been focusing more on the planetary grid system... limitations of operational ranges of buildings, City integration, Dust -> PI integration with Eve networks, additional building types, planetary services, vehicles, armor, player avatar fittings, weapons, cost for all of the above, etc. And doing Art illustrations for everything in the 2.2 version posted in the assembly hall, so people can see the ideas instead of reading them. I'm not much for the idea of linking planets to orbital platforms via elevators.... It's like linking a POCO to a station so you dont risk losing anything to move stuff. Cheap and pointless mechanic that deprives us of allot of Eve fun.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1682	Posted - 2012.09.07 18:32:00 - [316] - Quote Souisa wrote: How do these mini games tie into the general EVE experience? :) Dont you think its a little too NPC and singleplayer oriented? Use your imagine. These games impact allot of things... people, places, ownership, wallets, product lines, defenses, Dust, bombardment.... You know... like that spaceship game ties into the general EvE experience.... The current PI minigame is single player.... to the extreme. Yes, it will have single player elements. But it will also have pure multiplayer impact like spaceships do instead of just connect the dots for lonely isk.
ugh zug 50	Posted - 2012.09.07 20:13:00 - [317] - Quote regardless of the op's suggestions PI really does need iteration because its boring. minigame is a lie. Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1703	Posted - 2012.10.03 19:05:00 - [318] - Quote October bump FYI: The PI 2.2 PDF is planned to be hosted and posted on these forums sometime over the next 3 months.
Alx Warlord Security Task Force 171	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:26:00 - [319] - Quote Souisa wrote: How do these mini games tie into the general EVE experience? :) Dont you think its a little too NPC and singleplayer oriented? ugh zug wrote: regardless of the op's suggestions PI really does need iteration because its boring. minigame is a lie. And why can't we have different games inside EVE? so everyone would have a thing to like in here.... [Discussion] - New POS system ( Construction Block Built - Starbasecraft) <<< Please CCP read this!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1755	Posted - 2012.11.04 05:45:00 - [320] - Quote Last bump before the re-post Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Finn McCaan 1 man and his dog 0	Posted - 2012.11.04 10:11:00 - [321] - Quote this is pretty cool, huge and sprawling but awesome. You could even use it to allow for player created maps for dust. Come one where's my collaborative sci-fi simcity?
Irya Boone Escadron leader 56	Posted - 2012.11.05 20:15:00 - [322] - Quote totally agree with all ideas of OP need more of this for PI CCP please do something give spaceships a break and work on Wis and PI Thx Improve C2 class WH More anos more signs ...RENAME null sec system With the name Of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It xill be awesome-á
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 889	Posted - 2012.11.05 20:29:00 - [323] - Quote This is an awesome job Asuka, thank you for sharing your awesome ideas and for how you gave those to us. +1 for everything, some points I'd might have a slightly different opinion but over all, excellent. CCP, you should take this guy seriously. brb
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 71	Posted - 2012.12.03 21:57:00 - [324] - Quote another idea for PI: DUST arenas! basically, a PVE arena for DUST players that would be a lot like Firefight in Halo, though some arena maps can allow for vehicles from the word 'go' for extra mayhem. This would include two new structures: Arenas - the structure that the DUST players actually fight in. Largely halographic with the skybox, the terrain itself is a nanite carpet that can replicate most textures from rock and concrete to grass and leaves. Not a perfect copy of organics; bare hands can know the difference right off the bat. Then again, I doubt there will be any bare hands on the battlefield that are also not disembodied. Broadcast Node- a spaceborne structure that allows for pod pilots to actually take an observer's view of the goings in the arena (DUST players can simply be at the arena proper and watch), though should the rest of this thread be taken to the server, then the need for the Broadcast Node would only be for those who don't want to dock planetside for whatever reason. Where the science gets done
Serpensor Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2012.12.04 02:20:00 - [325] - Quote Amazing! Bravo! I vote for stripping PI 1.0 out of EVE online and having CCP build a 3rd game linked to the EVE Online and DUST Universe that implements these PI 2.0 features.
Me ofcourse There is no life in space 45	Posted - 2012.12.04 03:35:00 - [326] - Quote +1 CCP you HAVE to hire asuka, hell he/she's pretty much explained all of it, in EXTREME detail
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 71	Posted - 2012.12.04 04:11:00 - [327] - Quote perhaps both there Serpensor Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1817	Posted - 2012.12.04 17:59:00 - [328] - Quote tankus2 wrote: another idea for PI: DUST arenas! basically, a PVE arena for DUST players that would be a lot like Firefight in Halo, though some arena maps can allow for vehicles from the word 'go' for extra mayhem. This would include two new structures: Arenas - the structure that the DUST players actually fight in. Largely halographic with the skybox, the terrain itself is a nanite carpet that can replicate most textures from rock and concrete to grass and leaves. Not a perfect copy of organics; bare hands can know the difference right off the bat. Then again, I doubt there will be any bare hands on the battlefield that are also not disembodied. Broadcast Node- a spaceborne structure that allows for pod pilots to actually take an observer's view of the goings in the arena (DUST players can simply be at the arena proper and watch), though should the rest of this thread be taken to the server, then the need for the Broadcast Node would only be for those who don't want to dock planetside for whatever reason. Which network type would you allocate those structures to? Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Beta Miner COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven 3	Posted - 2012.12.04 18:44:00 - [329] - Quote This is a magnificent concept. +1
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 71	Posted - 2012.12.04 21:56:00 - [330] - Quote Social networks would be the most likely, with Civilian second and Military third. Why? because the arenas are more for entertainment than training! Where the science gets done

Nastrata Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:02:00 - [331] - Quote You mean to say that you want to introduce an aspect of EVE that would allow me to build a planetary empire? I think I need to change my spacepanties... This topic now has my full support and interest, please carry on. Can we add planetary drug labs? Perhaps, in the event this hasn't been proposed, some manner of ecology monitor to measure overdevelopment versus planetary preservaton, naturally focused toward terrestrial worlds and post-terraforming worlds? Oh, golly...I'm getting excited.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1822	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:24:00 - [332] - Quote Nastrata wrote: You mean to say that you want to introduce an aspect of EVE that would allow me to build a planetary empire? I think I need to change my spacepanties... This topic now has my full support and interest, please carry on. Can we add planetary drug labs? Perhaps, in the event this hasn't been proposed, some manner of ecology monitor to measure overdevelopment versus planetary preservaton, naturally focused toward terrestrial worlds and post-terraforming worlds? Perhaps such ecological destabilization would impose penalties until reterraforming or scaling down one's facilities? If the planetary overlord even cared about the health of the denizens or the environment of their worlds, perhaps riots or rebellions or plagues or natural disaters or any manner of awful, terrible things? Oh, golly...I'm getting excited. Perhaps you should read the Assembly Hall version very closely. You'll see we've already included planetary labs and manufacturing slots, similar to those found in towers and stations. You will be able to do everything you can do in towers and stations, on planetary networks. The service delivery system for civilian networks does have a happyness/crappyness factor involved. Better services = happier crowds and vice versa. Worlds better suited to civilian habitation could easily be ruined by industrialization and vice versa. Including a revolt system shouldn't be too difficult. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Cailais Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 264	Posted - 2012.12.05 17:31:00 - [333] - Quote I think this is a quite interesting topic, but it does need to link into DUST 514 to make it truly meaningful. I would suggest that this could be achieved relatively simply - Each planet has a given population figure. Each player with operational PI infrastructure on the surface would then hold a share of control (political influence) over that population. e.g. 2 x players = 50% influence each. Naturally the higher your influence the more productive your PI processes are (and arguably enable the production of increasingly advanced products or mineral extraction up to and including traditional moon goop or modules). Influence would be modified +/- by the placement of 'structures' each of which relate to a given DUST map. EVE players can then create standing contracts for the successful capture or defence of given structures which is realised through DUST games. There are naturally some difficulties to overcome - DUST would need sufficient relevant map types for example. Equally players 'ownership' of given structures would need to be held in a database format somehow and that might be problematic. However it is realised some form of competitive relationship between PI players for higher tier rewards could conceivably work, and still be overlaid the existing PI system (i.e what we have now is the bottom of the chain of production capabilities on a planet). C.
AnJuan Jackson Red Star Trading Industries 5	Posted - 2012.12.05 18:50:00 - [334] - Quote I must throw my support into this thread as well, CCP if you are listening, this is the kind of intricacy planets deserve! The level of immersion even half of these ideas implemented would bring would launch this game into a new age of success. Please pay extra special attention to these ideas! Thanks :)
Dersen Lowery Laurentson INC StructureDamage 180	Posted - 2012.12.05 19:10:00 - [335] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: You'll see we've already included planetary labs and manufacturing slots, similar to those found in towers and stations. You will be able to do everything you can do in towers and stations, on planetary networks. The service delivery system for civilian networks does have a happyness/crappyness factor involved. Better services = happier crowds and vice versa. Worlds better suited to civilian habitation could easily be ruined by industrialization and vice versa. Including a revolt system shouldn't be too difficult. <3
Nastrata Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2012.12.05 22:08:00 - [336] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: You'll see we've already included planetary labs and manufacturing slots, similar to those found in towers and stations. You will be able to do everything you can do in towers and stations, on planetary networks. The service delivery system for civilian networks does have a happyness/crappyness factor involved. Better services = happier crowds and vice versa. Worlds better suited to civilian habitation could easily be ruined by industrialization and vice versa. Including a revolt system shouldn't be too difficult. <3 Second. <3 Perhaps I shall read that other version very closely, as I just skimmed this one and got all giddy. :3 Anyone who says that a successful drug dealer doesn't dip into their own produduct isn't harvesting their base materials and-ácooking them in their own spacegarage. Besides, you never know what that stuff you buy off the guy on the corner of Jita and Perimiter-áis cut with.-á >:3
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 73	Posted - 2012.12.06 01:37:00 - [337] - Quote well I'm glad everyone else is actually reading the first 14 meaningful posts of this threadnaught and overlooking other ****'s dustbowl comments. Where the science gets done
Daichi Yamato Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire 75	Posted - 2012.12.06 03:29:00 - [338] - Quote +1 like alot of other ppl, this is what i thought tyrannis would be more like. especially when they asked me if i would 'rule with fear or benevolence'.
Siobhan MacLeary BRG Corp Ocularis Inferno 42	Posted - 2012.12.06 08:54:00 - [339] - Quote Asuka, I think I need to change my pod fluid. There's this salty-sweet taste to it. Seriously, this is awesome. I'd love to have what amounts to a city sim in my EVE. I've long had a dream for a game that is multi-layered like this. And I can tell that this is designed to be granular, people can go as deep into as they feel comfortable with. About the only suggestions I can think of is to add the possibility of Sleepers attacking PI2 cities in the higher-class wormholes (C4-6). Actually, I had another thought to add: Your idea for capsuleers and mercenaries to interact on the surface of a planet is great. It would be very cool to expand it to where, say, a capsuleer could be on the planet and suddenly is caught in the midst of an attack by enemy mercst. It could be very interesting to have capsuleers using sidearms and stealth to get back to a ship - and the safety of their pod - while immortal mercenaries defend their benefactor. Going from there, I think it would make sense for the security status of the system a City is in to affect the building models - Cities in hisec would have buildings that are very open to the street (large windows and doors, etc.) and with little in the way of visible security. Buildings in owsec cities would have, for example, smaller windows and recessed doors as well as things such as bars over windows. Nullsec and wormhole cities would have buildings that are practically bunkers. Adding to that, each sub-network of a City (that is, the parts owned by individual players - Boroughs, perhaps? Or would Districts work better for tying into DUST?) could have different building models depending on the race of the Borough owner. Though this would also be affected by the ownership of the system - systems that are owned by capsuleers (or in the case of wormholes, nobody) could have Cities with a mix of differently styled Boroughs, while Cities in Amarr space for example would only have Amarr-styled buildings. In losec, building style would also depend on system ownership, with the exception of FW systems - in these systems, Borough styles would be dictated by what empire owned the system when the Borough was constructed. We could even go deeper and tie the style of each individual installation within a Borough to which Empire owned the system when that particular installation was placed. So, for example, if I built a Factory in an Amarr owned FW system and the next day it was owned by the Minmatar, that Factory would still have an Amarr building model while anything I might build that day would have a Minmatar model. Just my two cents. This is really getting more into quality-of-play stuff than actual mechanics, but vOv
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1829	Posted - 2012.12.06 09:22:00 - [340] - Quote Siobhan MacLeary wrote: Asuka, I think I need to change my pod fluid. There's this salty-sweet taste to it. Seriously, this is awesome. I'd love to have what amounts to a city sim in my EVE. I've long had a dream for a game that is multi-layered like this. And I can tell that this is designed to be granular, people can go as deep into as they feel comfortable with. About the only suggestions I can think of is to add the possibility of Sleepers attacking PI2 cities in the higher-class wormholes (C4-6). Actually, I had another thought to add: Your idea for capsuleers and mercenaries to interact on the surface of a planet is great. It would be very cool to expand it to where, say, a capsuleer could be on the planet and suddenly is caught in the midst of an attack by enemy mercst. It could be very interesting to have capsuleers using sidearms and stealth to get back to a ship - and the safety of their pod - while immortal mercenaries defend their benefactor. Going from there, I think it would make sense for the security status of the system a City is in to affect the building models - Cities in hisec would have buildings that are very open to the street (large windows and doors, etc.) and with little in the way of visible security. Buildings in owsec cities would have, for example, smaller windows and recessed doors as well as things such as bars over windows. Nullsec and wormhole cities would have buildings that are practically bunkers. Adding to that, each sub-network of a City (that is, the parts owned by individual players - Boroughs, perhaps? Or would Districts work better for tying into DUST?) could have different building models depending on the race of the Borough owner. Though this would also be affected by the ownership of the system - systems that are owned by capsuleers (or in the case of wormholes, nobody) could have Cities with a mix of differently styled Boroughs, while Cities in Amarr space for example would only have Amarr-styled buildings. In losec, building style would also depend on system ownership, with the exception of FW systems - in these systems, Borough styles would be dictated by what empire owned the system when the Borough was constructed. We could even go deeper and tie the style of each individual installation within a Borough to which Empire owned the system when that particular installation was placed. So, for example, if I built a Factory in an Amarr owned FW system and the next day it was owned by the Minmatar, that Factory would still have an Amarr building model while anything I might build that day would have a Minmatar model. Just my two cents. This is really getting more into quality-of-play stuff than actual mechanics, but vOv (Also, where did you get that awesomely skimpy shirt?) Thanks for the feedback. Please ensure you've read the assembly hall version (PI 2.1), as we've already touched on allot of the points you've raised there. The custom graphics for varying networks is still being fleshed out. Hope to repost the updated PI 2.2 PDF sometime this month with graphical illustrations. And I bought this shirt from the Nex store. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Count Lucius Mollari Taxillus Transstellar Applied Integrated Enterprises in Space 5	Posted - 2012.12.06 19:54:00 - [341] - Quote Greatest idea ever! I have always felt that Eve online had the feeling of being inside one of those 4x games (like Masters of Orion or the Space Empires series) with the exception of the planetary development part that almost all of those games had. This idea makes Eve complete!
Romvex 194	Posted - 2012.12.06 22:10:00 - [342] - Quote This is a fantastically thought out idea, i think you should conquer the CCP HQ and take control! Post with your main
Nylith Empyreal Crowbar Industries. Rebel Alliance of New Eden 194	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:57:00 - [343] - Quote This and 'Beating a Dead Horse' need to happen! "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here."
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 74	Posted - 2012.12.18 22:11:00 - [344] - Quote The POS update thread? Where the science gets done
jeproghnem Valiant Vagrants 0	Posted - 2012.12.18 22:12:00 - [345] - Quote maybe, with the civilian PI, you could have a crew mechanic, such that you can purchase a crew for the ship, which lasts for a certain amount of time, then when your ship is destroyed or the crews signing period is up, you need to sign on a new crew. you could make crew training part of the PI with a mesh between social skills and the PI skills, with more advanced crews requiring more varied crew members for them, with different planets giving different bonuses for the different crew classes (such as plasma planets giving engineering bonuses, or barren planets giving mechanics bonuses)
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 74	Posted - 2012.12.18 23:22:00 - [346] - Quote With that, you COULD also have the same crew keep signing on, though you would then think you would eventually get things like 2% more capacitor and whathaveyou. Something the devs, methinks, is trying to stay away from. Where the science gets done
Seranova Farreach DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale. 42	Posted - 2012.12.19 05:40:00 - [347] - Quote it began with docking.. and then getting out of our pods.. soon walking in stations and interacting with mercs... maybe one day.. takeing a shuttle down onto the planet (inside buildings and facilitys ofc.) to manage PI from there
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1870	Posted - 2012.12.19 14:40:00 - [348] - Quote jeproghnem wrote: maybe, with the civilian PI, you could have a crew mechanic, such that you can purchase a crew for the ship, which lasts for a certain amount of time, then when your ship is destroyed or the crews signing period is up, you need to sign on a new crew. We opted for the "lasts until destroyed" approach. A crew is purchased and fitted / installed on a ship as one would a module or ammo. There was a comment made about hull damage would inflict crew losses and that formed the basis for the updates I'm making to ship crews in the PI2.2 version. What this means is that even if the ship is not destroyed, it is possible to lose the entire crew and would thus have to be replaced. We purposefully don't want to throw our lot in behind a "temporary" crew mechanic, whereby your crew works along the same lines as insurance that runs out after a specific period. This is a bad idea and must be purged inside the womb... with fire. jeproghnem wrote: you could make crew training part of the PI with a mesh between social skills and the PI skills, with more advanced crews requiring more varied crew members for them Please read over the PI 2.1 proposal in the assembly hall. We have eluded to PI crews being trained on civilian networks and sold as a commodity on markets. Frigate sized crews will be small and cheap, not requiring much in the way of varying inputs to train up. Capital ship crews on the other hand, well, lets just say you'd have to gank your neighbor, cut open his carcass, rip out his kidneys and then hope those are enough to afford one of those crews.... jeproghnem wrote: with different planets giving different bonuses for the different crew classes (such as plasma planets giving engineering bonuses, or barren planets giving mechanics bonuses) We are very keen on having crews play an integral part in Flying in Space, but we purposefully do not want to assign traditional FiS bonuses to crews. The main reason for this is that you already have modules + implants + skills + ship bonuses and roles that all do exactly the same thing. Make you l33t. TO this end, we figured that ship crews would have to go outside the box and serve functions and add value where implants, modules and ship bonuses do not add anything to your game play experience. A typical example of the areas where we see crews playing a role in ships would be: 1) Automated monitoring -> crew members checking your dscan for you, notifying you of warp signatures, ship hulls in scan range, anomalies, signatures etc. 2) Serving as WiS NPC guards for your ship in public hangers or starports, preventing other players from stealing your ship when its docked and your not in it. 3) Module assistance -> Crew members could recommend modules for different scenarios, or even activate them for you automatically if you set your crew to do so. 4) NPC escorts on away missions (Star trek, sidekicks and squads in exploration mode... Just think Prometheus and you'll know exactly what we're on about here) 5) Crews could be assigned tasks (Such as maintain the ships hull, redo the paint, refuel the ship when you dock a capital etc). Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Rozina Keikira Kabala Incorporated 0	Posted - 2012.12.19 18:39:00 - [349] - Quote "https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180359&find=unread" When these two threads are behind us, you both can reminisce together. Good luck!!!
androch Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2012.12.20 17:03:00 - [350] - Quote honestly this was far too boring and long to read through, pi is fine the way it is

Romvex 207	Posted - 2012.12.20 22:40:00 - [351] - Quote androch wrote: honestly this was far too boring and long to read through, pi is fine the way it is then why are you here again? Post with your main
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 75	Posted - 2012.12.20 23:00:00 - [352] - Quote obviously the tl;dr version was too long for him to read :P Where the science gets done
Belanar Colt The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.21 01:26:00 - [353] - Quote Dun dun dun
The Hamilton The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing 46	Posted - 2012.12.21 11:06:00 - [354] - Quote I'd love to hear from the DUST devs about how feasible it would be to implement a sim city / planet kind of game between or upon the EVE and DUST games. As adding PI to such a large extent within the EVE client would likely be disastrous. Do they prowl or post around here?
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1872	Posted - 2012.12.23 15:01:00 - [355] - Quote The Hamilton wrote: I'd love to hear from the DUST devs about how feasible it would be to implement a sim city / planet kind of game between or upon the EVE and DUST games. As adding PI to such a large extent within the EVE client would likely be disastrous. Do they prowl or post around here? Anything is feasible given the nature of software. Flexible coding and data store structures. The problem though, would be to not disrupt the current load on the server. When the very first versions of this idea was published and debated back on the old forums, it was very much limited to expanding connect the dots and allowing space ships to shoot at them. That was more than doable given the content we saw at Fanfest (The Orbital Bombardment video). But with the revised versions of this proposal (PI 2.1 and later), the sheer amount of content and the complexities involved, I think we're looking at a whole new stand alone game or separate client that would lean much more towards a pure WiS/* 3rd person experience with some Sim City in between, then an expansion to the current Eve Online client would allow for. If this idea were to be entertained at all by CCP, I'm sure it would be from a completely separate development / stand alone perspective. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!**
Serpensor Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2012.12.24 02:53:00 - [356] - Quote Here's a crazy idea. Have CCP NOT build PI. Instead have them team up with a developer that has experience in this type of game play. I was surfing around on Steam today and noticed that the game Anno 2070 was on sale. This is a game that was co-developed by Related Designs and Ubisoft Blue Byte. While watching a review on YouTube I couldn't help but imagine if something like this game existed within the EVE/DUST universe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pbPFir1u5g There are tons of things that would need to be changed. But, if CCP were to start PI from something akin to Anno 2070 instead of starting from scratch I think we'd have something far more compelling to play.
Tsobai Hashimoto FATAL Warfare 15	Posted - 2012.12.25 06:11:00 - [357] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: The Hamilton wrote: I'd love to hear from the DUST devs about how feasible it would be to implement a sim city / planet kind of game between or upon the EVE and DUST games. As adding PI to such a large extent within the EVE client would likely be disastrous. Do they prowl or post around here? Anything is feasible given the nature of software. Flexible coding and data store structures. The problem though, would be to not disrupt the current load on the server. When the very first versions of this idea was published and debated back on the old forums, it was very much limited to expanding connect the dots and allowing space ships to shoot at them. That was more than doable given the content we saw at Fanfest (The Orbital Bombardment video). But with the revised versions of this proposal (PI 2.1 and later), the sheer amount of content and the complexities involved, I think we're looking at a whole new stand alone game or separate client that would lean much more towards a pure WiS/*** 3rd person experience with some Sim City in between, then an expansion to the current Eve Online client would allow for. If this idea were to be entertained at all by CCP, I'm sure it would be from a completely separate development / stand alone perspective. Don't get me wrong. I would prefer to have this idea added onto the existing client. But even I am starting to have my doubts if its the best course of action to pursue. Subsequently, I've also included a few pages of rationale as to why this idea could be better suited as a stand alone game in the updated version of this proposal drawing on a few topics that have popped up over the past few months. This is an amazing idea and city / empire builders like Anno games are rather popular and could bring in a whole new type of gamer to become interested in EVE...it also would make planets more useful, making DUST mercs more useful A standalone game would be the best way to go, that has tie ins with EVE (much like DUST 514) the way it could interact with EVE is cities could become part of corporations or alliances for trading and using mercs as protection. Also having ship crews that are destroyed on a ships destruction is a great way to get the two games to co exist. Crews would be a huge add on to EVE< much like when they added rigs into the game, but would really bring in more dynamic fixs and new ways to use ships while making PI have more things to build / do I Love the idea, +1!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 1900	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:38:00 - [358] - Quote I've just gotten the inspiration for planetary disasters that would effect PI and, depending on the severity of the disaster, threaten life and limb of Dust mercs and Eve ships who dare to operate in such circumstances. In addition, these events would also create environmental effects (similar to wormholes) that would alter the eb and flow of the current game for a limited time or within a limited area. Expected to add about 3-4 pages to the current draft. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate 11	Posted - 2013.01.06 13:01:00 - [359] - Quote I'll admit up front I didn't read through this whole thread, but is there an idea to add planetary "rats"? You know, like Gurista Pirate raiding parties and the like?
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 101	Posted - 2013.01.06 18:15:00 - [360] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: I'll admit up front I didn't read through this whole thread, but is there an idea to add planetary "rats"? You know, like Gurista Pirate raiding parties and the like? I wholly support this idea, as it would give DUST mercs yet more things to shoot at and increase in severity depending on what space the planet is in, and if there are incursions going on. Where the science gets done

Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2175	Posted - 2013.01.06 18:19:00 - [361] - Quote tankus2 wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: I'll admit up front I didn't read through this whole thread, but is there an idea to add planetary "rats"? You know, like Gurista Pirate raiding parties and the like? I wholly support this idea, as it would give DUST mercs yet more things to shoot at and increase in severity depending on what space the planet is in, and if there are incursions going on. Yup. Its in there, somewhere. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Beta Miner COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven 52	Posted - 2013.01.07 08:24:00 - [362] - Quote I don't know if anyone has spoken about this but : I wonder if this would be a good avenue for Free to Play. A person buys their CD key (either EVE or Dust) and can then set up shop on a planet. If they want to fly anything over a shuttle, then can buy their pilots license (a PLEX) and start down that path ... or not. It's totally up to them. AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.
Mizhir Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 2365	Posted - 2013.01.07 11:50:00 - [363] - Quote Damn, thats an epic suggestion :) It will add a whole new layer to the game and will most likely attract some new playergroups. I hope it become possible. If you are having Smurf problems I feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but a Blue aint one.
Anthar Thebess REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN 38	Posted - 2013.01.07 12:22:00 - [364] - Quote Well you could also "port" some of the planet management to android application. This way you could create new type of players that sooner or later will also come to eve to taste the real thing.
Chris Avce Trojan Legion Fidelas Constans 5	Posted - 2013.01.07 13:20:00 - [365] - Quote as i was reading this a thought came to me from a book series i read (Peter Salisbury's Passengers Series) of how to get population to the planet if none exists already and it fits with both dust mechanics as they clone out from deployed structures on planet and our own cloning in stations in that series mankind never managed to develop FTL so they send ships slowly to deploy clones on a planet
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2177	Posted - 2013.01.07 14:24:00 - [366] - Quote Beta Miner wrote: I don't know if anyone has spoken about this but I wonder if this would be a good avenue for Free to Play. Erm. Given the amount of development and jesus features this idea has.... I'd have to say no. Bad idea making WiS & PI the F2P demo for FiS. Very bad. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Beta Miner COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven 52	Posted - 2013.01.07 19:03:00 - [367] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Bad idea making WiS & PI the F2P demo for FiS. Very bad. But this system doesn't have be a demo to FiS .. it will be a stand alone game, separate from Eve just like Dust. But with three games with plenty of cross pollination between them; cash flow for CCP, as well as economic and RP content. AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.
Romvex 421	Posted - 2013.01.07 21:00:00 - [368] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Beta Miner wrote: I don't know if anyone has spoken about this but I wonder if this would be a good avenue for Free to Play. Erm. Given the amount of development and jesus features this idea has.... I'd have to say no. Bad idea making WiS & PI the F2P demo for FiS. Very bad. wouldn't want to waste dem jesus features Post with your main
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 4	Posted - 2013.01.15 13:10:00 - [369] - Quote My first like post.
AnJuan Jackson SHUN THE NON BELIEVER Li3 Federation 43	Posted - 2013.01.18 09:24:00 - [370] - Quote With the new CSM summit and no real mention of PI improvements, I'm saddened. Make this a thing damn it!

Oenark Padelain University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.01.25 08:03:00 - [371] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: This would make sub capital ships vulnerable to Dust attacks from small arms, medium arms, planetary fighters/flying vehicles, tanks, Dust based anti infantry/vehicle/air turrets etc. Sub capital ships in the atmosphere of any planet will not be able to warp away if things go wrong, since the friction and speed would rip their hulls apart. They would first have to break orbit (going back the way the capital ships are located in, in orbit, so lots of camping potential there) before they can flee. They can also not use micro-warp drives in the atmosphere, since this would have a similar effect over a slightly longer duration. Only afterburners could be used to increase their speed. Their maneuverability would also be severely impaired by the atmosphere of the planets. Fleshing out the social slots (places where players can setup shops etc) and areas of Cities (like promenades, balconies, market squares etc). These areas would have the ability to prevent players with crap standings from entering and partaking in the partay. Starships aren't exactly aerodynamic, and don't have any kind of retro-thruster to keep them airborne in the atmosphere. The bombardment mechanic could work in something similar, right? When they add capital-sized ammo and ground to space artillery that is. Sorry if you've already addressed these issues previously or by yourself and I missed it. I absolutely love this idea, keep it up!
Oenark Padelain University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.01.25 08:04:00 - [372] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: This would make sub capital ships vulnerable to Dust attacks from small arms, medium arms, planetary fighters/flying vehicles, tanks, Dust based anti infantry/vehicle/air turrets etc. Sub capital ships in the atmosphere of any planet will not be able to warp away if things go wrong, since the friction and speed would rip their hulls apart. They would first have to break orbit (going back the way the capital ships are located in, in orbit, so lots of camping potential there) before they can flee. They can also not use micro-warp drives in the atmosphere, since this would have a similar effect over a slightly longer duration. Only afterburners could be used to increase their speed. Their maneuverability would also be severely impaired by the atmosphere of the planets. Starships aren't exactly aerodynamic, and don't have any kind of retro-thruster to keep them airborne in the atmosphere. The bombardment mechanic could work in something similar, right? When they add capital-sized ammo and ground to space artillery that is. Sorry if you've already addressed these issues previously or by yourself and I missed it. I absolutely love this idea, keep it up!
Serina Tsukaya The Milkmen Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2013.01.25 11:07:00 - [373] - Quote Don't want to be rude.. but wouldn't this simply become too big of a feature that doesn't center enough around shooting things in space? Sure, the Pi system should be refined, and I enjoy the idea of having to set up defenses and such, but in my honest opinon, it shouldn't become something you need to spend hours and hours setting up perfectly and micromanaging. Add new structures to the existing system, allowing players to add bases, defenses and such to their planetary layouts.. at a rent cost per month to pay for upkeep and a standing garrison. Your Idea is well thought out, and it's great. I'm just afraid that it may turn eve into less eve, and more about playing minigames within the game itself. Kind of like how Incarina was just Captains quarters online. I like the idea behind several types of hq's. and perhaps even having upgrades for various buildings that are soley for adding defensive capabilities. blowing up or forcing a facility to shut down through orbital bombardment works rather well too. Also, Teraforming is just kinda scetchy. How would you add a resource to a planet that shouldn't be there period. For instance. A gas giant suddenly becoming a barren world with no atmosphere. Turning a barren into a lava I can understand, but how long should such a proccess take, what should determine the new Pi present? I get the feeling people would exploit it far too much to try and make perfect planets through trial and error. Keep up the good work and continue with the great, well thought out ideas for features.
War Kitten Panda McLegion 1679	Posted - 2013.01.25 12:24:00 - [374] - Quote This sounds utterly awesome. Sim City / Civilization on planets is something I've thought would be a very great addition to New Eden. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
Docter Daniel Jackson Fleetworks Training 38	Posted - 2013.01.25 14:06:00 - [375] - Quote as long as its easy to understand and hard to master I'm all for it.
Malcorian Vandsteidt Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 65	Posted - 2013.01.25 16:00:00 - [376] - Quote I'm am all for this, however it does need to be included in: Highsec Lowsec Wormholes (Would be especially interesting) DUST 514 Otherwise only about 15% of the people who play eve will ever make use of it, and that would simply be a tragedy for such a great Idea.
Docter Daniel Jackson Fleetworks Training 38	Posted - 2013.01.31 03:05:00 - [377] - Quote Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote: I'm am all for this, however it does need to be included in: Highsec Lowsec Wormholes (Would be especially interesting) DUST 514 Otherwise only about 15% of the people who play eve will ever make use of it, and that would simply be a tragedy for such a great Idea. 15% is a good number but yes Dust 514 dose need to be part of this system.
mynnna GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 398	Posted - 2013.01.31 04:22:00 - [378] - Quote Haven't actually looked at this yet, just peeked into the thread. Major credit just for the effort you put into it - that alone piques my curiosity... This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Kogh Ayon SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 76	Posted - 2013.01.31 06:29:00 - [379] - Quote To OP: Just some suggestions about how to make a good proposal. I can see that you have invested a lot of effort into your core idea and illustrating how your idea will work like. That's not bad. But as you are asking people or people from a company to spend money on your idea, you would like to spent more time to talk about that how will your idea benefit them, and why it will work, technically and theoretically. You would also like to prove, even if you are not a technician you can do it by deductions, that how much the project on your idea will cost and how much improvement it will contribute to the game, and therefore how many players will be interested/benefited from your idea and bring more revenue to the company. You may argue that this is the thing that CCP supposed to do, for you. Maybe, but when it is a lone idea stand there, it will be much dependent on their random interest, which is not reliable. And obviously you have spent such time on the proposal that not only expect people to have a glance and say "wow it's cool", don't you? You would like to spend a fair portion of effort to make sure people will seriously look at the stuff that you seriously created.
Count Lucius Mollari Red Federation 28	Posted - 2013.02.15 01:52:00 - [380] - Quote Serina Tsukaya wrote: Don't want to be rude.. but wouldn't this simply become too big of a feature that doesn't center enough around shooting things in space? Sure, the Pi system should be refined, and I enjoy the idea of having to set up defenses and such, but in my honest opinon, it shouldn't become something you need to spend hours and hours setting up perfectly and micromanaging. Add new structures to the existing system, allowing players to add bases, defenses and such to their planetary layouts.. at a rent cost per month to pay for upkeep and a standing garrison. Your Idea is well thought out, and it's great. I'm just afraid that it may turn eve into less eve, and more about playing minigames within the game itself. Kind of like how Incarina was just Captains quarters online. I like the idea behind several types of hq's. and perhaps even having upgrades for various buildings that are soley for adding defensive capabilities. blowing up or forcing a facility to shut down through orbital bombardment works rather well too. Eve in a big sand box! It is not ONLY about blowing things up. (odd sounding coming from a RvB member, I know ;-) Those ships get made by people who enjoy building an industrial empire. This addon would bring big fun to that portion of Eve players, without whom you would have nothing to blow up. (or at least would then waste your time that you would rather spend blowing things up instead of industry, that you may not enjoy) In this way, one could argue that this feature would make Eve MORE of the Eve that each kind of player wants to play. It even adds more of an Eve flavor to the currently unexciting industrial aspect of the game.

Tennessee Jack Blac-x 12	Posted - 2013.02.15 02:04:00 - [381] - Quote I will just say good concepts. Back up you go
anishamora Atelierele Grivita 17	Posted - 2013.02.15 08:40:00 - [382] - Quote Haven't yet finished reading ALL but so far it's amazing! I LOVE EVE and I LOVE SimCity style of games (Caesar, Anno, SimCity, CitiesXL,etc.). If EVE would contain this additional layer of city building and management I would pay for a lifetime subscription in a heartbeat!! The way this idea could tie in with DUST and with things already in EVE that so badly need a look at: industry, moon mining and moons role in general, stars (only decoration atm), capital ships usage, etc. It would be really really sad if CCP wouldn't take a hard long look at this idea and wouldn't start drafting its implementation. Think only at the amount of new people that would flock to the game. The city-building genre is very poorly represented lately and building one on such a solid platform that EVE is would be a-mazing! I'll get back to reading :D
Me ofcourse There is no life in space 82	Posted - 2013.02.22 11:15:00 - [383] - Quote now if CCP actually implements this, that would be awesome and actually breath life back into PI
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2300	Posted - 2013.03.07 15:56:00 - [384] - Quote March Bump for feedback Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Ager Agemo Imperial Collective 232	Posted - 2013.03.07 16:13:00 - [385] - Quote OMg that is so long..i will add +1 for effort, -1 for not making it shorter and +1 because its a good idea.
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 105	Posted - 2013.03.07 18:15:00 - [386] - Quote a +1 net increase is always good! Where the science gets done
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 105	Posted - 2013.03.10 06:17:00 - [387] - Quote since people are bringing up threads on improving PI, its about time this got a bump. Maybe. Where the science gets done
Reppyk Yarrbear Inc. BricK sQuAD. 367	Posted - 2013.03.10 06:31:00 - [388] - Quote Linking my own thread about PI : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213858&find=unread
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2301	Posted - 2013.03.10 06:53:00 - [389] - Quote tankus2 wrote: since people are bringing up threads on improving PI, its about time this got a bump. Maybe. If and when you see new PI topics pop up with suggestions covered by this one, link them here. Otherwise, have them consider adding to this. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Sir Dragon Einherjar Yggdrasils 16	Posted - 2013.03.10 11:12:00 - [390] - Quote The more that is left to automation, and, thus, out of the players hands, reguarding Planetary interaction, the sooner you could form a doable model. By keeping it shallow, the model can be built sooner. Own the pre existing town : don't build it. -> The lack of " building " gnaws the development weight EXTREEMly much down, for the city would be just a bunch of math equations. Fly over the surface : don't walk on it. -> terrain already exists in DUST, WOD, EVE. . . . Depth would come later; or more imporatlly, via your imagination. [Lt. Cmdr. Data]: "Perhaps. Perhaps not, sir." [Capt. Picard]: "That's hardly a scientific observation, Commander. "[Data]: "Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is, 'I do not know'. I do not know what that is, sir."

Trade Thief Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.10 11:58:00 - [391] - Quote Just wow, best idea i've heard in a long time. I hope that some devs take a deeper look into this, could be a complete new way of playing eve. +1 For a genius idea
Athena Maldoran Special Nymphs On A Mission 137	Posted - 2013.03.10 13:58:00 - [392] - Quote Theres only one thing that will help PI.. And thats even more less clicking.. If you could route to all factories in a single click when routing a new product...
Van Mathias Dead Space Collective 6	Posted - 2013.04.06 07:02:00 - [393] - Quote I am so very behind the Simcity-on-dust planets idea, you build it up like the traditional game, supplemented with mineral and ISK drops from orbit. Once the city is built, it can be attacked by opposing corps, with the dust battles taking place inside the player designed cities. You could even have the sim population represented as innocent bystanders/refugees/partisans during the battles, affecting the field. On top of that, each building could be individually destructible. That would allow the dust mercs to interact with the eve players in a meaningful way, because the defending player would require "limited property damage", giving a new dimension to friendly fire. Do you want to order an orbital strike on your own colonies? How will it affect happiness? Which of your own structures are you willing to destroy in your cities defense? Are you willing to let an enemy capture a colony intact so you can take it back later? Or do you scorch the earth behind you? An array of defensive structures for custom strongholds would round out the gameplay nicely. Post your advanced battleship ideas here!
Felsusguy Archimedes RD Company 53	Posted - 2013.04.06 08:10:00 - [394] - Quote I'm not sure why this has became so popular. It is overcomplicated, doesn't integrate well with Dust 514's district system, and frankly doesn't answer many of the possible issues that such an idea might have. How droll.
Van Mathias Dead Space Collective 6	Posted - 2013.04.06 08:14:00 - [395] - Quote If you are worried about overcomplicated, you are playing the wrong MMO. It would integrate very well with the district system, each district would have a set number of colony slots. Once the slots are occupied, you will have to take it if you want to have a colony there. Post your advanced battleship ideas here!
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2337	Posted - 2013.04.06 08:20:00 - [396] - Quote Van Mathias wrote: Felsusguy wrote: I'm not sure why this has became so popular. It is overcomplicated, doesn't integrate well with Dust 514's district system, and frankly doesn't answer many of the possible issues that such an idea might have. If you are worried about overcomplicated, you are playing the wrong MMO. It would integrate very well with the district system, each district would have a set number of colony slots. Once the slots are occupied, you will have to take it if you want to have a colony there. Just FYI, the revised 3.0 version of this idea will actually tie into the District system we have now. This idea and its 2.1 Assembly Hall variant was posted long before the Dust Beta took flight and well before we even knew about a district. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Felsusguy Archimedes RD Company 53	Posted - 2013.04.06 08:21:00 - [397] - Quote Van Mathias wrote: If you are worried about overcomplicated, you are playing the wrong MMO. EVE is not overcomplicated. There is a difference between just complicated enough and overcomplicated. Van Mathias wrote: It would integrate very well with the district system, each district would have a set number of colony slots. Once the slots are occupied, you will have to take it if you want to have a colony there. Nowhere in the original post(s) do I see anything about your proposed system. How droll.
tankus2 The Peace Keepers 106	Posted - 2013.04.06 18:11:00 - [398] - Quote would it be high-time to start a PI 3.0 thread? This beast is heading for 21 pages in length. Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2337	Posted - 2013.04.06 19:49:00 - [399] - Quote tankus2 wrote: would it be high-time to start a PI 3.0 thread? This beast is heading for 21 pages in length. I agree. But I'll start the new topic when we post the 3.0 draft. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Maoye Simalia Ecstasy Of Gold Corp 0	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:17:00 - [400] - Quote Love your PI 2.0 proposals.

Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 301	Posted - 2013.04.06 20:35:00 - [401] - Quote +1 for win thread. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
Zero Vigilant Titanium Resolve 6	Posted - 2013.04.07 05:12:00 - [402] - Quote +1
Thelonious Blake 47	Posted - 2013.04.09 21:58:00 - [403] - Quote bump
Jeison Taron Az'Suran Nation 0	Posted - 2013.04.18 23:07:00 - [404] - Quote +1 this makes loads of sense ... I mean where did we come from ... And every time a ship blows up where does the crew come from
Zaber Saberhagen Sinnister Mining Corp 1	Posted - 2013.04.19 00:11:00 - [405] - Quote +1
Daichi Yamato Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire 740	Posted - 2013.04.19 01:12:00 - [406] - Quote glad to see this is still appearing on the front page from time to time. roll on 3.0
Van Mathias Dead Space Collective 36	Posted - 2013.04.19 01:32:00 - [407] - Quote +1 again, we can't support this enough. Post your advanced battleship ideas here!
Omega Tron 14	Posted - 2013.04.19 02:08:00 - [408] - Quote +1 Wouldn't be amazing if CCP really had the programing and art skills to really implement this? Sadly, like so many really well developed player presented concepts this will only be shown on the forum. But hope is always alive and maybe before EVE Online turns 20 years old this sort of game play will be a reality. EVE Online is CCP's sand box. -áThe sand is owned by CCP. -áWe just get to pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other. -áGet over your thoughts that you have some influence on what they will add or do for you.
Shade Alidiana PROSPERO Corporation MinTek Conglomerate 40	Posted - 2013.05.16 00:23:00 - [409] - Quote Looks well, makes sense. I'm not a sim city fan, but would like to have planets work this way...
Kazur Nemic Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.05.16 21:53:00 - [410] - Quote I support this idea, hopefully devs impliment this at some point. I have always looked at the planets in 0.0 and thought why player corporations with trillions of isk could not colonize their temperate worlds. Makes sense to do it.

Vipre Morte School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.07.16 19:24:00 - [411] - Quote Giving this thread the bump it deserves. +1
Silivar Karkun Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada 85	Posted - 2013.07.17 03:14:00 - [412] - Quote bumping for support
Marcus Harikari Guitar Players of EVE 168	Posted - 2013.07.17 04:01:00 - [413] - Quote please make PI add-on game playable on phones in android so i can do my PI from work :)
supernova ranger Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.07.17 04:04:00 - [414] - Quote read "part 1 of 14" and cringed........... anyone got the cole's notes version?
supernova ranger Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.07.17 04:20:00 - [415] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: tankus2 wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: If this topic can make 3 pages of positive responses and/or another 30 odd likes... I will be posting it over in the Assembly Hall with some additions. Then spam every PI alliance in Eve hoping to garner enough support to push it to the top of the next CSM refocus list. I think you have your requirements down with excess (especially likes, damn!) I'm currently doing the whole Office Word thing, systematically redrafting this topic with another 2-3 pages of new additions, changes, like: Sub capital ships (frigates, destroyers, cruisers, battle cruisers and battleships) being able to agress PI structures, but they would have to fly into the atmosphere, get to within their conventional Eve turret/target range (2km - 90km) and then be able to target and fire upon structures or Dust targets on the surface and air. They would also become subject to planetary Aggression Timers, but would not be made vulnerable to the big anti cap guns that can be placed on the surface by Military PI networks. This would make sub capital ships vulnerable to Dust attacks from small arms, medium arms, planetary fighters/flying vehicles, tanks, Dust based anti infantry/vehicle/air turrets etc. Sub capital ships in the atmosphere of any planet will not be able to warp away if things go wrong, since the friction and speed would rip their hulls apart. They would first have to break orbit (going back the way the capital ships are located in, in orbit, so lots of camping potential there) before they can flee. They can also not use micro-warp drives in the atmosphere, since this would have a similar effect over a slightly longer duration. Only afterburners could be used to increase their speed. Their maneuverability would also be severely impaired by the atmosphere of the planets. Fleshing out the social slots (places where players can setup shops etc) and areas of Cities (like promenades, balconies, market squares etc). These areas would have the ability to prevent players with crap standings from entering and partaking in the partay. Fleshing out the planetary/city market system Introducing a smuggling system that makes sense and actually means something for the market system for planets. Introducing a ship theft mechanism for unguarded ships parked at star ports. Building a license system (Similar to the hi-sec faction charters for towers) for player/corp/alliance owned Agents and missions that could be made available to other players based on inter corp standings. This system would be dreadfully expensive. Adding more building variety (slave pens, pleasure hubs, casino's, bars etc) and refining the existing proposed buildings for civilian and military PI networks. I'm also trying to make the first few posts a bit more readable, hoping to reduce the giant wall of text to make it more Assembly Hall friendly. It's not a fast process. Only heard of 2 capitals ever make a pass at low altitude... both died, one from re-entry and the other on a suicide run... they don't stand up well on re-entry and would take allot damage from it From what I recall capital weapons planet to space weapons, they were missles that blew up above the ships and tried to push it down... to do it otherwise would be to make citidel silos and turrets available on the ground... not sure how they will track a capital ship pulling countless g's in a very fast gravity turn
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2417	Posted - 2013.07.17 05:35:00 - [416] - Quote supernova ranger wrote: Only heard of 2 capitals ever make a pass at low altitude... both died, one from re-entry and the other on a suicide run... they don't stand up well on re-entry and would take allot damage from it From what I recall capital weapons planet to space weapons, they were missles that blew up above the ships and tried to push it down... to do it otherwise would be to make citidel silos and turrets available on the ground... not sure how they will track a capital ship pulling countless g's in a very fast gravity turn I'm sure the lore can point you to instances of pods/shuttles/frigates/dessies/cruisers/bcs/BS/indies & freighters that fell out of the sky while trying to enter the atmosphere during a fight. You must have missed day of darkness videos and lore references to the Gallente / Caldari war where clearly laser/hybrid based planetary gun emplacements can be seen pew pewing spaceboats. Then again, I'm not sure how missiles work in space with no air to crate lift using tail fins... but I guess small things like these are of no consequence in a world where the dominant species have mastered faster that light and inter dimensional travel. Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Jasmine Assasin State War Academy Caldari State 13	Posted - 2013.07.17 06:12:00 - [417] - Quote Asuka Solo wrote: Then again, I'm not sure how missiles work in space with no air to crate lift using tail fins... but I guess small things like these are of no consequence in a world where the dominant species have mastered faster that light and inter dimensional travel. Missile fins don't have anything to do with lift and are there just for stability and in cases where the missile lack thrust vectoring, maneuvering. We now have the capability to build (and the U.S. Navy and several U.S. Allies already have) rolling airframe missiles that spin in flight just like bullets for stability. They don't have fins and use 3d thrust vectoring for directional control. Fins are old school now. They add size/bulk to the missile, increase drag, are easily damaged and in the case where they fold up to save space then that just adds to the complexity of the whole thing. Just like rockets to space, it is the sheer power of the engine that keeps them aloft. The only exception would be sub mach long range cruise missiles.
Asuka Solo Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises 2418	Posted - 2013.07.17 06:45:00 - [418] - Quote Jasmine Assasin wrote: Asuka Solo wrote: Then again, I'm not sure how missiles work in space with no air to crate lift using tail fins... but I guess small things like these are of no consequence in a world where the dominant species have mastered faster that light and inter dimensional travel. Missile fins don't have anything to do with lift and are there just for stability and in cases where the missile lack thrust vectoring, maneuvering. We now have the capability to build (and the U.S. Navy and several U.S. Allies already have) rolling airframe missiles that spin in flight just like bullets for stability. They don't have fins and use 3d thrust vectoring for directional control. Fins are old school now. They add size/bulk to the missile, increase drag, are easily damaged and in the case where they fold up to save space then that just adds to the complexity of the whole thing. Just like rockets to space, it is the sheer power of the engine that keeps them aloft. The only exception would be sub mach long range cruise missiles. Fascinating. Maybe CCP should update their missile models? Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Jasmine Assasin State War Academy Caldari State 13	Posted - 2013.07.17 07:11:00 - [419] - Quote I'd rather the art team work on new ships/updated models, models for things like probe launchers and other high slot non weapon items and a hi-res texture pack among other things first.
killin en Thrillin Helion Production Labs Mildly Intoxicated 0	Posted - 2013.08.11 23:11:00 - [420] - Quote bumping for support

Robert J Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 2	Posted - 2013.08.13 12:19:00 - [421] - Quote This ...is great! And my Dust alt can't wait for all those contracts... But wait this thread is 2 years old... and got only one (enthusiastic) dev reply? Do you think Interplanetary consolidation could have two more advanced levels and not only one? Like Corporation control has? And add waaay more colonies than only 11? Ex.: Interplanetary consolidation: lvl1 +1 colony, +1 colony/level. 6 colonies total at lvl5 System planetary consolidation: lvl 1 +20 colonies, +10 colonies/level. 66 colonies total at lvl 5 Region planetary consolidation: lvl 1 +200 colonies, +100 colonies/level. 666 colonies total at lvl 5 Maybe 666 is too much? I thought it would spawn more interest in PI and interfering with it. And how about Dust side having ability to build cities too? There is already ownership of planets' districts in Dust. In Molden Heath. But they give nothing but passive ISK from battle clones sales. 150k ISK/clone. Oh... and there are battles over changing district ownership. Dust is all about PvP now... No "interacting" with EVE PI in sight yet... Mercs are getting nervous ... or discouraged. Maybe i've missed it but shouldn't there be reinforcement timer on colony, so the owner don't have to be on guard 24/7? Just like for POSes? Attack or defense of the colony could be conducted via RTS like interface. One could direct AI units or Dust mercs squads. F.E.A.R. stands for False Expectations Assumed Real More gems here: http://www.mannymolecular.com/mind-emotion/42-exploring-fear
Silvetica Dian Manson Family The Retirement Club 41	Posted - 2013.08.13 15:27:00 - [422] - Quote Can we make our AI controlled troops attack hostile cities on the same planet please.
Robert J Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 2	Posted - 2013.08.13 17:23:00 - [423] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: Can we make our AI controlled troops attack hostile cities on the same planet please. Do you exclude hiring Dust mercs at all? At least consider it being optional. Using AI troops would put on your shoulders burden of buying all equipement and directing fire. On the other hand, Dust mercs know ery well what gear to bring with themselves. Leaving you only with adjusting collateral value and pay out for mercs... If your hired guns fail, you still earn ISK. Not so much with AI... It would make up for very interesting battle if one team would be from Dust and the other AI troops... BTW, this thread slides away very fast F.E.A.R. stands for False Expectations Assumed Real More gems here: http://www.mannymolecular.com/mind-emotion/42-exploring-fear
Gel Musana LOL a Sticky Situation 2	Posted - 2013.08.13 20:11:00 - [424] - Quote Zloco Crendraven wrote: Well it is amazing. Really good work and i would love to see it get live. But, but...EVE online is about spaceships. As long as CCP is putting their main focus on ships, tweaking them, adding more content for flying in space i do not mind that in spare time they develop your project. I suspect the main problem is that the focus is not on EVE. See all we get is minor stuff done by a few developers. You can do rebalancing by taking 2-4 people to study first and then change the configuration in the database. Some new skins? well that is a few people too. Although it looks impressive, no major work there, no development. I do not know where all development time is going... DUST is stuck, there is nothing new I see coming, where are all developers and what are they doing? I am sure if you ask they will tell you that developers are on holidays! nice one. Maybe they work on WoD? or maybe a revamp of DUST? Maybe a mobile version of something... I can't tell. For sure not on spaceships and stuff that we want. Ideology -ás-h-i-t -álist https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana
BOHC Lotteries BOHC Lotteries Corp 10	Posted - 2013.08.28 08:40:00 - [425] - Quote I still want to see this implemented.
Sir Jack Falstaff Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.08.29 21:01:00 - [426] - Quote +1000 Sim City in space. Love it But for sweet Jack Falstaff, kind Jack Falstaff, true Jack Falstaff, valiant Jack Falstaff, and therefore more valiant, being, as he is, old Jack Falstaff, banish not him thy Harry's company, banish not him thy Harry's company: banish plump Jack, and banish all the world.


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