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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
883
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 07:18:00 -
[211] - Quote
Just an update on the progress of the Assembly Hall version of this idea.
Moon Interaction and Social PI alone are 16 pages (in word).
The following items still need a revamp to incorporate feedback from this topic: 1.0 Planetary Interaction 1.1 PICC (Planetary Industrial Command Centers) 1.2 PCCC (Planetary Civilian Command Centers) 1.3 PMCC (Planetary Military Command Centers) 7.0 NPC hauling contracts 8.0 Space and Planetary Economies (for corps and alliances) 9.0 Smuggling and Player owned Customs Offices 10.0 The relationship between Ships and Planets 11.0 Skills for PI 2.1
I've started adding some very simplistic graphical illustrations to the (soon to be) pdf file.
Unfounded modest estimates for completion will put it closer to a xmas post. |

Theta Eridani
SON OF RAVANA Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 16:30:00 -
[212] - Quote
+1
Cant wait to see pdf. |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
348
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 08:28:00 -
[213] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file.
Do this, and if you allready did it I'll notice that in a few seconds and go "yeey" (providing we have slave farms) - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 11:12:00 -
[214] - Quote
bump for awesomeness Cool story bro..
GÇ£Quod licet Iovi non licet boviGÇ¥- Gods may do what cattle may not. "Amat victoria curam"- Victory favours those who take pains. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
912
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 21:51:00 -
[215] - Quote
Ciar Meara wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file. Do this, and if you allready did it I'll notice that in a few seconds and go "yeey" (providing we have slave farms)
We have a system where civilian networks aligned with Amarr governments, convert excess settlers (that don't have homes) into slaves.
Slaves are consumed as a fuel type by Amarrian ice mines.
As for actual slave pens, those are proving kind of hard to write in. We're open to serious and substantiated suggestions tho.
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Cealis Naarker
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 05:02:00 -
[216] - Quote
+1
Ccp, start your coders! |

LeHarfang
Intersteller Masons Wonder Kids
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 05:20:00 -
[217] - Quote
I really can't wait to see what Dust will bring to Eve Online and if they take some concepts from here and elaborate from there, they could have something pretty interresting! |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
353
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 10:38:00 -
[218] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Ciar Meara wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:I'm entertaining the idea of compiling this suggestion into a pdf file with graphics and hosting that, then just posting a link in the assembly hall to the hosted file. Do this, and if you allready did it I'll notice that in a few seconds and go "yeey" (providing we have slave farms) We have a system where civilian networks aligned with Amarr governments, convert excess settlers (that don't have homes) into slaves. Slaves are consumed as a fuel type by Amarrian ice mines. As for actual slave pens, those are proving kind of hard to write in. We're open to serious and substantiated suggestions tho.
:yeey: - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 21:21:00 -
[219] - Quote
Hi Akura
Right ATM I've read the TLDR, and it looks like one of the most comprehensive and well thought out projections I have ever heard.
Why did I just call your idea a projection you may be thinking.
Well I forsee serious implementation issues with what you are suggesting.
The thing you may notice about games of this genre (Builder/RTS strategytypes) are they are distinctly diffent in presntation than your (Roleplays and FPS's) . Take simcity for example it's blocky graphics and slow 3d rendering lag far behind RP/FPS games of the same era (whichever version of Sim city you consider). Take even our own PI as an example , it's a very 'functional' graphical experience.
My ideas don't need great graphics I Imagine is what your thinking.. and your right.
So what am I rambling on about. Well the other distinct diffence , which the now obvious graphical diffrences are a 'symptom' of is, these sort of processes (large multiples of small entities interacting with eachother) literally eat CPU and Memory. There other feature is they are ever ongoing processes, if you log out of a browser RTS it still 'monitors' your empire. This puts excessive strain on a server, considering the thousands of planets in EVE and the number of buildings you are suggesting imagine all them little bean counters trying to run simultaniously. Unfortunalty I don't believe such massive AI processes are very feasible. CCP have done well to implment PI IMO, after CCP releases DUST, then they would need to access how much 'technological overhead' they had and how much they are willing to invest in PI.
This is all based on my limited hobbiest experience of proggraming but I'm pretty sure my theories are sound, but should anyone know otherwise please let me know because I would love to see ideas like this implemented.
*hates to be the bringer of bad tidings*
/leaves thread in bad mood 
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
20
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 01:09:00 -
[220] - Quote
Prof Alphane, may I introduce you to Anno 2070, a construction game that has a story along with each mission that also has some RTS in it. Now, my graphics card was in its prime 7-8 years ago and chugs while playing this game on even modest settings, though its beauty does shine.
Sim City is an example of a game series that is stamped out of a publishing house of which frequently thinks with its wallet, unlike other games like Painkiller or Half-Life.
To address the 'large mulltiples of small entities interacting with eachother', do you think that every npc in every system is taken into account all the time, especially if no player is in the local area, let alone system? and that's just rats! CCP are already proven masters of this sort of thing, keeping track of everything from the number of shells a dread or titan is carrying in Outer Ring to how much veldspar some poor sap has mined in Hek without there being a miscalculation.
Considering that only what needs to be rendered or 'thought of' by the server actually gets that fraction of a second of processing time, I don't see this version of a hugely-advanced PI slowing the game down. Where the science gets done |
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 02:38:00 -
[221] - Quote
tankus2 wrote:
To address the 'large mulltiples of small entities interacting with eachother', do you think that every npc in every system is taken into account all the time, especially if no player is in the local area, let alone system? and that's just rats! CCP are already proven masters of this sort of thing, keeping track of everything from the number of shells a dread or titan is carrying in Outer Ring to how much veldspar some poor sap has mined in Hek without there being a miscalculation.
No but entities like rats and aseroids are not dynamic, there a file in a database that is only needed if someone does something to it.
A building on the other hand is dynamic, it changes constantly without anyone needing to log in. Every detail will be updated at set intervals. Things need to be refernced, checked, updated all the time.
So while your rat or asteroid just sits on some harddisk somewhere, every building is eating into your processing resources on a constant basis as it 'evolves' overtime. The more buildings the more system resources you need, the more asteroids you just need more harddisk space.
Hopefully this explains things a little more clearly
/edit saw that Anno 2007 in the shop the other day but didn't really pay attention, I'm not sure what your point is there, yes it's probably pretty but I imagine not to the standard of a modern RPG FPS, the fact your system chugs running it would seem to support my first point.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
912
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 21:39:00 -
[222] - Quote
Prof Alphane
Thanks for your insights.
I am however, of the naive state of mind to think that the technical overhead and strain on the server would be no more than the combined strain of outposts, towers and the existing PI mechanic rolled into 1 package.
An easy infrastructure solution would be to export PI to its own server and only actually be called up in the event that people go into planet views or log in on planets, thus erasing the need for 24/7 processing on the eve server. Almost like rats, but not quite.
Since Dust wont be running from the Eve server either, this seems like a viable option if this proposal were in fact to cause major technical headaches upon implementation or testing.
But I'm sure the design & Dev teams will be able to shed more light on the technical limitations of their hardware when they do a feasibility study on this idea. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
914
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 22:39:00 -
[223] - Quote
The Assembly Hall version of PI 2.0 has been hosted here.
A topic has been made with the download link in the Assembly Hall. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 01:58:00 -
[224] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Prof Alphane
Thanks for your insights.
I am however, of the naive state of mind to think that the technical overhead and strain on the server would be no more than the combined strain of outposts, towers and the existing PI mechanic rolled into 1 package.
An easy infrastructure solution would be to export PI to its own server and only actually be called up in the event that people go into planet views or log in on planets, thus erasing the need for 24/7 processing on the eve server. Almost like rats, but not quite.
Since Dust wont be running from the Eve server either, this seems like a viable option if this proposal were in fact to cause major technical headaches upon implementation or testing.
But I'm sure the design & Dev teams will be able to shed more light on the technical limitations of their hardware when they do a feasibility study on this idea.
Fair enough.
In a way that is why I called it a 'projection' as well, it makes an excellent 'road map' of how PI might develop.
As I say I like the ideas, and hope CCP do devote more time to developing PI as ATM it's a quickly 'burnt out' mini game. You still get your income but there isn't much to do once you've waded through the massive number of options on what to produce and actually set your colonies running. It was all kind of disapointing IMO.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries
184
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 23:59:00 -
[225] - Quote
I read everything and I must say, that was about 2 hours well spent. 
Some further suggestions / comments:
1. AFAIK Eve is supposed to run in "real time". So I find your growth rates a little off. 15% growth per downtime? Seriously? IMHO it would be more appropriate to have those growth rates on a "per month" base (still ridiculously high growth rate, but, hey, it's just a game) . Growing your cities should take much longer, but it would increase the immersion and give you a better feeling of accomplishment once you have created a metropolis.
2. Cooperation. I like this a lot. Like a second corp, you have to band together with people from other corps to keep the city running. Your corps may even be at war, you still have to work together - or find some backstabbing ways to kick them off the planet. This sounds like endless potential for fun and drama.
3. Taxes. I have no problems with the tax system you proposed in null or in WH space. But I don't think the empires would tolerate any individuals to collect any taxes from their citizens. (Lowsec is also still claimed by those empires). To make profit of your population I would suggest something different: your population is a market for civil goods that you can sell for profit. The one thing that I felt was always wrong with Eve economy was that almost every item you could produce and sell was directly connected to warfare. You acquire weapons to claim space to get resources to build more weapons to defend this space to build even more weapons...etc etc etc. It should be much more profitable to sell billions of softdrinks or deodorants to the populations of several planets than selling a few hundred autocannons to a handful of capsuleers. So your PI model could open the door to civilian industry, the size of the population and the general wealth of the colony would determine how many of your goods you could sell to them in a given time - and the supply of civil goods will have a positive effect on population growth and overall efficiency of the colony. -.- |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
976
|
Posted - 2011.12.26 09:31:00 -
[226] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:I read everything and I must say, that was about 2 hours well spent.  Some further suggestions / comments: 1. AFAIK Eve is supposed to run in "real time". So I find your growth rates a little off. 15% growth per downtime? Seriously? IMHO it would be more appropriate to have those growth rates on a "per month" base (still ridiculously high growth rate, but, hey, it's just a game) . Growing your cities should take much longer, but it would increase the immersion and give you a better feeling of accomplishment once you have created a metropolis. 2. Cooperation. I like this a lot. Like a second corp, you have to band together with people from other corps to keep the city running. Your corps may even be at war, you still have to work together - or find some backstabbing ways to kick them off the planet. This sounds like endless potential for fun and drama. 3. Taxes. I have no problems with the tax system you proposed in null or in WH space. But I don't think the empires would tolerate any individuals to collect any taxes from their citizens. (Lowsec is also still claimed by those empires). To make profit of your population I would suggest something different: your population is a market for civil goods that you can sell for profit. The one thing that I felt was always wrong with Eve economy was that almost every item you could produce and sell was directly connected to warfare. You acquire weapons to claim space to get resources to build more weapons to defend this space to build even more weapons...etc etc etc. It should be much more profitable to sell billions of softdrinks or deodorants to the populations of several planets than selling a few hundred autocannons to a handful of capsuleers. So your PI model could open the door to civilian industry, the size of the population and the general wealth of the colony would determine how many of your goods you could sell to them in a given time - and the supply of civil goods will have a positive effect on population growth and overall efficiency of the colony.
1) Bare in mind, the startinng point for all populations is the 500 settlers that comes with your command center. At an average increase of 55 - 90 settlers for the first few days/weeks (assuming you retain a 10% growth rate or more), it will take you ages to get somewhere meaningfull. Even at 100% tax rates, 50 000 isk a day is tantamount to a single mission from a lvl 1 agent each day.
2) I hope it will provide said drama and funzorz.
3) Also take into consideration, that before the players can collect any taxes from hi-sec/low-sec cities, the Empire will take their 50%/35%/25% cut. So your profit margins on tax up there isn't massive. Factor in operational costs on a daily basis and suddenly it would be like running a few havens a day and then losing ships in each one as you rat.
But I am hoping we can expand this economy system to non combat items as you say. The problem will be in creating demand for it. If we modify the fuel requirements for cities to include soft drinks, water, exotic dancers and what not, then we could accomplish this.
The Assembly Hall version of this topic has more detail than the few pages in this topic. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1019
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 09:15:00 -
[227] - Quote
Bump for 2012 comments and feedback! |

Theta Eridani
SON OF RAVANA Blitzkrieg Federation Of The Dumpster Punchers
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 20:29:00 -
[228] - Quote
+1
|

tankus2
Endless Destruction Imperial Ascension
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 22:09:00 -
[229] - Quote
Return this to the front page, pass go and collect 200 isk Where the science gets done |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1087
|
Posted - 2012.01.13 20:01:00 -
[230] - Quote
Bump for moar feedback! |
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1149
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 05:53:00 -
[231] - Quote
Feb bump |

Kamuria
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 11:06:00 -
[232] - Quote
I didn't read a thing, however i'm pretty sure your ideas would bring more micromanagement to PI and that would kill it for me. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1150
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 14:36:00 -
[233] - Quote
Kamuria wrote:I didn't read a thing, however i'm pretty sure your ideas would bring more micromanagement to PI and that would kill it for me.
That is why you fail young grasshopper.
This suggestion does not increase the amount of management or time investment needed to run PI beyond what it is now.
This suggestion will allow you to do PI exactly as you do it now if you do not wish to pursue a more in depth PI experience by setting up cities or expanding your networks to include other types..
It basically increases the varied PI experience while retaining the current time investment requirement and managerial overheads of PI. |

Decus Revaen
Omegacron Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 22:01:00 -
[234] - Quote
One interesting possibility to think of, would be adding the ability to launch an entire asteroid at a planet's surface. This would be used to distract the ground-based weapons temporarily in order to allow to escape. An example of this would be a dreadnought pilot accidentally flew too close to the planet's atmosphere and is unable tank all the damage from the ground-based weapons, a nearby ship could launch an asteroid towards the planet in order to get the ground-based weapons to shot at the asteroid instead of dreadnought. This would allow a 3-5 second pause in damage being done to dreadnought allowing it to survive for longer. Of course this would require a capital industrial ship to hold the asteroid as well several miners to maneuver the asteroid into capital industrial ship's cargohold. Well, that is all for my idea. |

Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
64
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 19:24:00 -
[235] - Quote
Will read this fully another time. I fully support the idea of PI being some kind of Sim City.
PI is currently so utterly dull, and planets should be a MUCH larger part of the game. The PI expansion was the one that made me quit originally, when I decided that CCP has finally stopped caring. Crucible brought me back, and changes as amazing as this would keep me playing.
Hell, in a perfect world PI would be a clone of 'Supreme Commander'. That universe would fit very well with EvE as well.
+1,000,000 |

Klytior Am'jarhs
Amarrian Retribution
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 20:21:00 -
[236] - Quote
Great idea... Let's build it and test to see if it works |

Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
65
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 21:31:00 -
[237] - Quote
I would LOVE to know if the Devs would give this ideas some serious consideration. As other people have said, this is what PI should have been like form the start. PI is currently a HEART-BREAKING waste of an opportunity. It's a lame and largely meaningless profession, which involves no interaction with other players, and is pitiful the face of all the potential amazing stuff PI could involve.
I imagine they're all busy fixing EvE right now, but would a Dev at least let us know if they are taking this ideas seriously for the future? |

tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
30
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 03:47:00 -
[238] - Quote
what's this? PI threads are beginning to crop up and this sits back ten pages? frontpage naow! Where the science gets done |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1195
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:11:00 -
[239] - Quote
Bump |

Derth Ramir
Hellion Evolution
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 05:12:00 -
[240] - Quote
Even though I will most likely never participate in PI this idea makes me **** my pants. Eve needs more ideas like this that make it the ultimate space game.
+1 |
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