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[quote=CCP Explorer]But I have been talking to the UI developers today

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: ElCoCo So about that resetting overview,drone and fleet windows thingy... In essence, don't forget the simple stuff! Look at it this way -- guys who are working on the UI are guys aren't working on Faction Warfare or Ambulation. Put them in the position to cause the least amount of damage, right? No I realy don't want faction warfare (and certainly not ambulation)if I have to rearrange my windows whenever I undock or join a fleet. Boink!
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:30:00 - [62] Originally by: ElCoCo Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: ElCoCo So about that resetting overview,drone and fleet windows thingy... In essence, don't forget the simple stuff! Look at it this way -- guys who are working on the UI are guys aren't working on Faction Warfare or Ambulation. Put them in the position to cause the least amount of damage, right? No I realy don't want faction warfare (and certainly not ambulation)if I have to rearrange my windows whenever I undock or join a fleet. It's fixed in Empyrean. There, now stop whining. -----
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:44:00 - [63] Originally by: Shionoya Risa It's fixed in Empyrean. There, now stop whining. 1. I'm not whining. 2. Where's the note on that being fixed cause I missed it? Boink!
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:49:00 - [64] Originally by: ElCoCo Originally by: Shionoya Risa It's fixed in Empyrean. There, now stop whining. 1. I'm not whining. 2. Where's the note on that being fixed cause I missed it? Yes, you were whining, but whatever. The note on it being fixed is in the GDF's somewhere. Can't find the link now, sorry. -----
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:55:00 - [65] Originally by: Shionoya Risa Yes, you were whining, but whatever. If you can't grasp how ease of use and functionality affects the long term appeal )of any service) it's not my fault. It doesn't hurt to be reminded of the simple stuff. Boink!
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.05.13 21:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Anubis Xian I'd like a less window oriented UI... Would text-based suffice? If it functions without impairing the function...why not. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
hamster humpster	Posted - 2008.05.13 22:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Havohej Follow the link and apply for the job then, IF you're qualified - hasn't this thread run its course already? Continuation isn't going to yield anything worth while, just more whining about inconsequential nonsense amirite? That noise you hear is my point whizzing past your head. My bad, I thought it was whining. nonsense, you dont have to be qualified to do something in order to know the people who are doing it is doing a bad job... case point, everyone knows that whoever is in charge of iraq is doing a pretty crappy job, even though most people are not qualified in leading a country... the fact that there is actually a job open for UI designer pretty much says it all... if they have competent UI designer(s) already, why would they need to hire more?
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.05.13 22:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 13/05/2008 20:24:51 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Some often repeated tasks require 1,800% more physical user actions than truly necessary. Or do you never repackage everything in your hangar, then stack it? What about repackaging and stacking everything in the hangar? That's very easy and fast to do. You seem to be experiencing a catastrophic quoting failure. Your point was irrevocably lost. Abort, Retry, Fail? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.13 22:27:00 - [69] Originally by: hamster humpster Originally by: Havohej My bad, I thought it was whining. nonsense, you dont have to be qualified to do something in order to know the people who are doing it is doing a bad job... the fact that there is actually a job open for UI designer pretty much says it all... if they have competent UI designer(s) already, why would they need to hire more? Eh... you seem to have misunderstood me. To rephrase what I said: I agree that there are issues with the UI, but I do not believe they are OMGEVEISDYINGFIXTHEUIOMGOMGOMG important. IF you are qualified, apply for the job and get hired, then you can help fix it. Otherwise, this thread serves no purpose other than to nitpick at CCP by whining about problems that have existed throughout the existence of EVE and haven't prevented new subscribers, nor have these UI problems caused the playerbase to quit and go play something else. It's not that important... if it were, it would reflect on the revenue generated by the game. It apparently hasn't, as there's been no apparent shift of current developer resources off of other projects to work on changing the UI. I think it's impressive that they're actually trying to specifically hire people to work on it at all. It's just NOT THAT DEEP. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.13 23:08:00 - [70] Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 13/05/2008 23:11:04 Originally by: Doc Fury Originally by: CCP Lingorm it is also a matter of resources and well we must admit that part of our graphics framework needs a complete rewrite ... it is slow and cumbersome ... but it is happening ... Translation: "All our resources are currently dedicated elsewhere so we can roll-out yet another expansion, so you will have to live with the same crappy UI until after that. We have been trying to hire a UI developer for some time, it's just nobody qualified wants to move to iceland..." well it all depends on the money ;) give enough and you will get the quelity you want :P hehe but yes you need the people to be able to do the job ^^ ps: they ARE trying to hire some one for it, so i don't really see how much more they can do for it?... need to be patient. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.05.13 23:11:00 - [71] On the other hand, it's quite apparent that CCP is very busy, and as a result of this, certain bugs and annoyances that are minor are NEVER EVER EVER fixed, simply because there's always something more important to fix or do. They do not have a system whereby a minor issue gets escalated with time, from what I've seen. So, the efforts of those vocal about UI improvements (I am one of them) are to actually avoid this indefinite postponement issue, and NOT wait another 5 years before anything gets done. I also disagree with you that it has no impact on playerbase numbers, but can't produce any proof, just like you. I have seen a post or two in the Newbie Questions forum stating that the game is interesting but they hate having to fight the UI, just like people are saying here. Take that as you will.
Vyktor Abyss EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.14 00:29:00 - [72] You don't suit being grumpy Xaen. You're much too sensible for that! If I were you (having skills and talent CCP desperately requires) I'd apply for a job there and try to effect change from within. It could stop you getting more and more grumpy until you drop a metaphorical forum A-bomb!
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.14 00:54:00 - [73] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss You don't suit being grumpy Xaen. You're much too sensible for that! If I were you (having skills and talent CCP desperately requires) I'd apply for a job there and try to effect change from within. It could stop you getting more and more grumpy until you drop a metaphorical forum A-bomb! The problem is this, once you see something in a transformative or complex way you can't unsee it. It's as though I told you gun turrets never showed up or ship trails weren't working, you'd notice those things every time you logged in much less thought about EVE. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
fuze InfoMorph Services Ltd	Posted - 2008.05.14 01:07:00 - [74] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Havohej Follow the link and apply for the job then, IF you're qualified - hasn't this thread run its course already? Continuation isn't going to yield anything worth while, just more whining about inconsequential nonsense amirite? That noise you hear is my point whizzing past your head. Xaen has been posting for a very long time for UI improvement (1yr8mon) and little has improved. I guess there is a point when you are getting annoyed with it. CCP working on WOD is taking its toll on Eve development and having difficulties putting priorities on current issues. Same when Serenity was being implemented and now turns out to be failing with less than 5k players online during peek hours. Vital part of this would be communication about what's really happening and why its taking forever to fix the UI.
Vyktor Abyss EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.14 01:10:00 - [75] I get the growing frustration - I really do, but if I had an ounce of the talent or skill requred to work for CCP to effect change to our beloved game then I'd go for it. Xaen has the skill/talent it seems. CCP (appear to) recognise this, so why not just commit himself to the Icelandic abyss and stop being so grumpy?
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.14 01:11:00 - [76] Quote: That much is obvious to anyone who has studied HCI. You might have programmers creating code that ends up in the UI, but you do not have UI developers. I studied HCI. It was the biggest crock of **** waste of time I've ever done. I attended about 25% of my classes (read: one hour a week for 13 weeks), spent a total of one day on assignments for it and hardly studied for the exam. I got a high distinction 85%. And this was a final-year bachelor course. Anyone who believes half of what HCI dictates should be done for a UI can't actually use computers properly themselves. Improve Market Competition!
Ghaelsto Kakram Mindgamers	Posted - 2008.05.14 01:21:00 - [77] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Xaen has the skill/talent it seems. CCP (appear to) recognise this, so why not just commit himself to the Icelandic abyss and stop being so grumpy? Would you give up a better paying job?
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.14 01:21:00 - [78] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: That much is obvious to anyone who has studied HCI. You might have programmers creating code that ends up in the UI, but you do not have UI developers. I studied HCI. It was the biggest crock of **** waste of time I've ever done. I attended about 25% of my classes (read: one hour a week for 13 weeks), spent a total of one day on assignments for it and hardly studied for the exam. I got a high distinction 85%. And this was a final-year bachelor course. Anyone who believes half of what HCI dictates should be done for a UI can't actually use computers properly themselves. Its you, you're the mediocre talent who works at CCP. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.14 01:54:00 - [79] Quote: Its you, you're the mediocre talent who works at CCP. Psht. Give me command line or give me death OK, I do understand the need for user interfaces to be useable, but they also need to be functional. And for the amount of functionality in EVE, there's not much choice for them. So yeah, maybe I do have angst about people who ask for software systems to be made for them, but refuse to learn how to use a computer. I swear I could make a fortune running seminars to educate businesses about how to engage software companies should they wish to have some electronic system designed for them. Improve Market Competition!
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.14 02:06:00 - [80] Edited by: Hannobaal on 14/05/2008 02:07:57 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 13/05/2008 20:24:51 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Some often repeated tasks require 1,800% more physical user actions than truly necessary. Or do you never repackage everything in your hangar, then stack it? What about repackaging and stacking everything in the hangar? That's very easy and fast to do. You seem to be experiencing a catastrophic quoting failure. Your point was irrevocably lost. Abort, Retry, Fail? You could just answer the question. The one and only thing I can think of that one would want added to help that process, is an additional option to repackage and automatically stack everything in one. But that's such a minor, minor issue, and such a miniscule improvement if added, that it's just laughable.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2008.05.14 02:10:00 - [81] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: Its you, you're the mediocre talent who works at CCP. Psht. Give me command line or give me death OK, I do understand the need for user interfaces to be useable, but they also need to be functional. And for the amount of functionality in EVE, there's not much choice for them. So yeah, maybe I do have angst about people who ask for software systems to be made for them, but refuse to learn how to use a computer. I swear I could make a fortune running seminars to educate businesses about how to engage software companies should they wish to have some electronic system designed for them. I'd really love to have more screen real estate but the ship console at the center of the screen coupled with the enormous amount of space you need for drone window, overview, watchlist and local + scanner give me a headache every time. Why we can't have a "simple view" or "condensed view" or even "intuitive view" that organized these things would be awesome not to mention modern. Why we lost the map in the directional scan is something I'll also never understand--I never use the new seamless map. :[ ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.14 02:16:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP Lingorm Xaen .... You are free to fix it. I'd do it but how would this affect my snow angel and editing semicolons to period job that mitnal gave me cough i don't come close to the requirements cough gimme a few years
Freya Runestone Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.14 02:27:00 - [83] Originally by: Havohej Eh... you seem to have misunderstood me. To rephrase what I said: I agree that there are issues with the UI, but I do not believe they are OMGEVEISDYINGFIXTHEUIOMGOMGOMG important. IF you are qualified, apply for the job and get hired, then you can help fix it. Otherwise, this thread serves no purpose other than to nitpick at CCP by whining about problems that have existed throughout the existence of EVE and haven't prevented new subscribers, nor have these UI problems caused the playerbase to quit and go play something else. It's not that important... if it were, it would reflect on the revenue generated by the game. It apparently hasn't, as there's been no apparent shift of current developer resources off of other projects to work on changing the UI. I think it's impressive that they're actually trying to specifically hire people to work on it at all. It's just NOT THAT DEEP. I think the UI has turned many people away from the game. If you hang out in the Help channel ingame, you often see people asking simple UI questions that should be obvious in the UI. But it's one of those things where none of us can prove one thing or another since no proof exists. there are a lot of windows that look almost exactly the same, but perform differently. cargo bay, containers, wrecks, dronebay. All these look the same, with only the window title distinguishing them from one another. The amount of UI things is just insane though. station services, all sub-windows, POS, all sub windows of all sub structures, corp/ally and all the sub windows, everything with trading, there is just tons and tons and tons of menus and windows for everything. EVE wont die if the the UI isn't fixed right away, but it will make it a better game.
LetsDoThis	Posted - 2008.05.14 03:11:00 - [84] The odds of finding a quality, experienced UI designer that is fanatical enough to move to iceland and get paid sub-standard pay (games industry ftl) are microscopic.
Lumen Atra GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.14 04:24:00 - [85] Edited by: Lumen Atra on 14/05/2008 04:25:37 Originally by: Xaen Just because you can get by doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for improvement. Back in the day Yahoo search worked sufficed. Does that mean Larry Page and Sergey Brin should not have started a little project that they thought could do a better job? You see what it is. I see what it could be. There is more to UI design than simply HCI. There is more to any design on any product than simply how it interacts with a user. Not to mention that a natural flow to a user - thus something more comfortable to use - is not always what you would logically find to be the most efficient or useable. Compounded by every person having different tastes. Google hasn't actually done anything well in terms of presentation, in regards to its main "product" to the masses: its search engine. It is simplistic on the surface, but it has many faults that are taken for granted. "I'm feeling lucky" has zero context unless you have randomly tried it or read about it, for instance. The advanced search page is atrocious, like most advanced search pages. The real questionable thing about this thread is the utter lack of anything useful presented by the original post. There is a big difference between criticism and constructive criticism. One points out a flaw; the other gives ideas for change. Guess which one is more useful and could actually be used by a developer. Guess which one leaves a developer to blindly and randomly try different things. edit: ps: But I do agree, ultimately, that a UI redesign with better tweaks at the minor things, and communication with the audience, would be greatly beneficial.
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.14 04:33:00 - [86] Originally by: CCP Lingorm Xaen .... You are free to fix it. BURN, JUST BURN GJ Lingorm
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.05.14 05:39:00 - [87] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: CCP Lingorm Xaen .... You are free to fix it. BURN, JUST BURN GJ Lingorm Burn? Please. If that was intended as a burn, it's juvenile and lame. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.05.14 06:11:00 - [88] thats probably the exact reason why the UI and many other aspects of EVE are so... well... bad. UI developer = a programmer that pulled the short straw and ended up having to build this thing that CCP later put a sticker on labeled "UI". Thats the same with the QA department... they are recruited from the cleaning personnel that doesn't clean well enough, then get payed double the wages and get a nice sticker for their t-shirt that reads "QA" and bob's your uncle.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.05.14 06:45:00 - [89] This lol topic is lol. Naturally all kinds of development has priorities. And I don't really care about the details that may frustrate a vocal minority. Yeah yeah I don't know HCI and I don't really give a $h17. While I'm sure that your suggestions would improve the GUI, it's just not that important for most people. The vocal majority instead wants a fix to lag, they want a fix to balancing, they want a fix to bugs that affect their ability to play the game. And of course, whether we like it or not, we all want expansions. Any game that stagnates, remains the same is doomed to die, or at least stay still. The GUI is of course a part of it, and they have made a few changes to improve it, but clearly there is no majority looking for what you think is "OMGBROKEN!11". So yes, your passion for fixing the UI is noted, but further whining will only do you a disservice, someone screaming about any one thing for too long in the end tend to get ignored. Black Hand.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.05.14 06:56:00 - [90] Cause whining about how other folks are whining and then whining about lag is gonna make that better too eh - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles

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