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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 16 post(s)
Subedai	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:29:00 - [121] Im sure the Amarr/Minmatar RP alliances and corps issue is a major one. But spare a thought for the poor ppl that have to face the inevitable caldari zerg.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:32:00 - [122] Originally by: CCP Oveur What about Factional Warfare? You promised! Yes, we did and we will hold to it if we are satisfied with the end result. As underlined in this blog, our focus is to address what we already have and pushing out an incomplete or broken Factional Warfare while we focus on improvements is counter to our goals. We do have a simple version of it we're testing out, one which can then evolve based on how you play it and resulting in the embrace of emerging gameplay. Sorry couldn't help using the buzzwords. :P From http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=493 Sounds to me like they failed... _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 13:35:00 - [123] Yep, this expansion looks exactly like an incomplete and broken factional warfare, exactly what they stated there they didn't want to do. It's incomplete until every single player in the game can participate in it without having to disband their alliance!
Haverloth Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:32:00 - [124] Originally by: Takal Cylotar I really start to believe the root of all evil here is CCP not wanting to touch too much code. So far they have presented the simplest solution for them. Make factions Alliances, let FW participant corps join those alliances and create new npc corps in there for individuals to join. 100% compatible with current system not much coding needed. I don't have to stress that I don't like this, but given the (probably) tight timeframe until the release of "Empyrean Age" it is unrealistic to ask CCP to start from scratch (that can be done later on). So here are some suggestions to improve the situation for the RP alliances until this can be handled properly. 1) Give Alliances the opportunity to wardec FW Factions (The alliance like constructs that take part in FW). This should result in an immediate standing loss with the decced faction and a possible standing gain with its enemies. There should be limitations to who can wardec a FW faction. For example to wardec Minmatar you need an alliance standing to Amarr of say 3.00 (this is an arbitrary number). This should keep pirates from wardeccing all factions just to get a plethora of targets. This feature should mitigate the massive security rating loss an Alliance operating in an FW area would have to deal with. 2) Each individual within an Alliance that has wardecced a Faction gets an automatic standing boost of +6.00 with the respective FW agent corporation, which gives him the ability to use those agents (the very basic ones at least). There will be no FW agents who needs less standing than 6.00 so there is no way to get to them other than joining FW or deccing a Faction. Faction standing alone should not be enough for those agents, like it is with many R&D agents. Dropping the wardec to a FW faction will of course result in an appropriate standing loss (-6.00) with the FW agent corporation. This will give Alliance pilots the opportunity to use FW agents as long as their Alliance is at war with an Faction 3) Since the proposed FW Faction mechanics are based on the standard Alliance mechanics it should not be a problem to implement the statistics that we are going to see with FW on an alliance level. (I admit this is a guess) 4) Finally we have the problem that Alliances won't be able to trigger timers on objectives since, they are not really part of FW. This is a tough one. I don't know what will trigger timers but I imagine you shoot down the shields of a structure drop 50 marines in there and the clock starts ticking (yes, pure imagination). So easiest solution would be to make structures only attackable by war targets, thus every wartarget (proper FW Faction and all deccing alliances) can start the timer. Furthermore I think it should be possible to detect the presence of wartargets to a faction in a deadspace (but again, this is a guess). Adding this would make another FW feature accessible to alliances without the need to mess too much with current Alliance/Corporation and wardec mechanics. Would be nice to have a Dev comment here what the main problems are. I am sure there are quite a few brains out there that would love to help CCP to cook up solutions. Well said. The solutions sugested in this would be satisfactory. Likewise, a note from a Dev regarding whether or not some similar mechanic will be in place, either immediately or soon, would be nice. ____________________ http://1pg.vigilia-valeria.org
Pantaloon McPants	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:38:00 - [125] guys from alliance a - leave your alliance and join corp a - then join ccps rp alliance a
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:41:00 - [126] Originally by: Pantaloon McPants guys from alliance a - leave your alliance and join corp a - then join ccps rp alliance a Not much use if you want to continue with your existing wars as well as get involved in FW or hold any territory in 0.0 though is it? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:43:00 - [127] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 16/05/2008 14:44:58 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 16/05/2008 14:43:50 CVA you guys are making kind of a big deal out of this. Just make a "VACATIONS: Foreign Legion" corp and enlist it, and when someone of your members is burned out on the 0.0 he goes there and chillaxes for a month or two. That way, you guys won't steamroll the other side with your organisation, you'll keep all your 0.0, and you'll get to enjoy FW a few people at a time. Honestly I don't think there's a problem... Or did you really think CCP would let the entirety of CVA stomp into lowsec and kick the **** out of the poor minmatar pubbies that haven't shot missl in their life before? And the good thing is that being on that corp doesn't block you out of 0.0, only the opposite.
Jakke Logan Caldari F Off And Die	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:47:00 - [128] Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 14:48:36 Originally by: Swamp Ziro Or did you really think CCP would let the entirety of CVA stomp into lowsec and kick the **** out of the poor minmatar pubbies that haven't shot missl in their life before? Is there anything stopping them from doing that anyway with the FW system? And it will be even easier since they will be concentrated at known, static sites. Those places will be the new gatecamps. Unless they only put those sites in highsec areas any 0.0 alliance that wants to can effectively stomp any FW activity if they wanted to. And why not? Is there a better way to protest the exclusion of alliances than by doing this? In lowsec cap ships can even be brought in... The reason why the FW system isn't going to work is that the people they are trying to lure into PVP with it are going to get stomped on by everyone else the moment they show their faces there.
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:49:00 - [129] Originally by: Jakke Logan Edited by: Jakke Logan on 16/05/2008 14:48:02 Originally by: Swamp Ziro Or did you really think CCP would let the entirety of CVA stomp into lowsec and kick the **** out of the poor minmatar pubbies that haven't shot missl in their life before? Is there anything stopping them from doing that anyway with the FW system? And it will be even easier since they will be concentrated at known, static sites. Yes there is. They can't just pack and leave, someone's gotta stay to fuel the poses and stuff
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:49:00 - [130] Originally by: Swamp Ziro CVA you guys are making kind of a big deal out of this. Or did you really think CCP would let the entirety of CVA stomp into lowsec and kick the **** out of the poor minmatar pubbies that haven't shot missl in their life before? Pretty much. In fact I think some amongst the big RP Alliances expected to be made the equivalent of the NPC Faction Militias - want to fight for the Amarr in FW?: join CVA. C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Cpt Constantinus Celestial Janissaries	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:52:00 - [131] No, we just expected to be able to participate in FW without having to leave our alliance.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 14:58:00 - [132] Originally by: Cpt Constantinus No, we just expected to be able to participate in FW without having to leave our alliance. Its a case of join FW for small scale pvp with empire level rewards, or stay in an Alliance and conduct large scale pvp with .0 level rewards. You'll just have to choose, you cant have both. C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Haverloth Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:05:00 - [133] Edited by: Haverloth on 16/05/2008 15:05:53 Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Cpt Constantinus No, we just expected to be able to participate in FW without having to leave our alliance. Its a case of join FW for small scale pvp with empire level rewards, or stay in an Alliance and conduct large scale pvp with .0 level rewards. You'll just have to choose, you cant have both. C. And what about Vigilia Valeria or Electus Matari or Ushra Khan who do not claim 0.0 space? We've been doing the small gang warfare thing for a lot longer than faction warfare has been promised. We're not big enough to "steamroller" anyone as well, so why are we being excluded? ____________________ http://1pg.vigilia-valeria.org
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:06:00 - [134] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Cpt Constantinus No, we just expected to be able to participate in FW without having to leave our alliance. Its a case of join FW for small scale pvp with empire level rewards, or stay in an Alliance and conduct large scale pvp with .0 level rewards. You'll just have to choose, you cant have both. C. So why invite people in alliances into the prototype for FW? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:09:00 - [135] Originally by: Haverloth Edited by: Haverloth on 16/05/2008 15:05:53 Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Cpt Constantinus No, we just expected to be able to participate in FW without having to leave our alliance. Its a case of join FW for small scale pvp with empire level rewards, or stay in an Alliance and conduct large scale pvp with .0 level rewards. You'll just have to choose, you cant have both. C. And what about Vigilia Valeria or Electus Matari or Ushra Khan who do not claim 0.0 space? We've been doing the small gang warfare thing for a lot longer than faction warfare has been promised. We're not big enough to "steamroller" anyone as well, so why are we being excluded? Why not roll up your alliance membership into ONE corp: heck call the corp Vigilia Valeria. There you go - problem solved no? C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:11:00 - [136] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 16/05/2008 15:11:40 Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Haverloth Edited by: Haverloth on 16/05/2008 15:05:53 Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Cpt Constantinus No, we just expected to be able to participate in FW without having to leave our alliance. Its a case of join FW for small scale pvp with empire level rewards, or stay in an Alliance and conduct large scale pvp with .0 level rewards. You'll just have to choose, you cant have both. C. And what about Vigilia Valeria or Electus Matari or Ushra Khan who do not claim 0.0 space? We've been doing the small gang warfare thing for a lot longer than faction warfare has been promised. We're not big enough to "steamroller" anyone as well, so why are we being excluded? Why not roll up your alliance membership into ONE corp: heck call the corp Vigilia Valeria. There you go - problem solved no? C. this. I see where CVA is coming from and I guess I understand their issues, but any empire RP entity has no excuse not to just reorganize into a single corporation and enroll. So what, the alliance "Vigila Valeria" will become the corp Vigila Valeria is that such a big deal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:19:00 - [137] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/05/2008 15:19:40 Originally by: Swamp Ziro Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 16/05/2008 15:11:40 Originally by: Cailais Why not roll up your alliance membership into ONE corp: heck call the corp Vigilia Valeria. There you go - problem solved no? C. this. I see where CVA is coming from and I guess I understand their issues, but any empire RP entity has no excuse not to just reorganize into a single corporation and enroll. So what, the alliance "Vigila Valeria" will become the corp Vigila Valeria is that such a big deal You could say the same about any alliance. In fact, why have alliances at all? Why not just do away with alliances and allow corps to hold sovereignty? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Haverloth Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:22:00 - [138] Edited by: Haverloth on 16/05/2008 15:24:15 Originally by: Cailais Why not roll up your alliance membership into ONE corp: heck call the corp Vigilia Valeria. There you go - problem solved no? C. Yes, there is a problem with that. We are comprised of different corps for a reason. We have somewhat differing philosophies and outlooks, yet all still serve under the banner of the Imperial Navy. The Manu Dei is a very conservative religious corp, whereas the 1PG is a somewhat less conservative combat-oriented corp. Add to the mix the Legio Ammatar, with Ammatar pilots led by Amarrian officers... For RP reasons Manu Dei won't fly with Ammatar pilots, so putting MD and LEGAM into a corp together is a no-no. Similarly, what command does a 1PG Decurio (junior officer) have over a MD Acolyte? Between an Ammatar and an Amarr Decurio, whose orders count? We're not all the same, and it is unreasonable to say "put all -VV- into one corp" - if it were that simple, we would never have formed -VV- in the first place and made everything an extension of 1PG. These are all RP reasons, fair enough. But RP is the reason that FW is here, RP is the reason that -VV- and PIE and CVA all exist, and you're asking us to throw away all of this rich history and RP because CCP don't want to implement a mechanic/are at the behest of the 0.0 alliances/insert other reason here. EDIT: As Rodj says, you could then say the same thing about any Alliance. Why have Alliances and the Alliance mechanic at all then? ____________________ http://1pg.vigilia-valeria.org
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:25:00 - [139] Originally by: Rodj Blake Quote: Why not roll up your alliance membership into ONE corp: heck call the corp Vigilia Valeria. There you go - problem solved no? C. this. I see where CVA is coming from and I guess I understand their issues, but any empire RP entity has no excuse not to just reorganize into a single corporation and enroll. So what, the alliance "Vigila Valeria" will become the corp Vigila Valeria is that such a big deal You could say the same about any alliance. In fact, why have alliances at all? Why not just do away with alliances and allow corps to hold sovereignty? Good point. But one might assume that CCP created Alliances to differentiate between just 'big corps' and those groups that wanted to establish their own 'kingdoms' If you were to look at the scale of the organisations in EVE you aught to get; Faction Alliance Corp Individuals A soveriegn holding Alliance is, essentially, a faction in its own right (Id argue thats how Alliance should be termed once they gain soveriegnty). Ergo, in factional warfare the player 'factions' (read: Alliances) arent at war with the NPC factions - as it doesnt involve their space. C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Tissa Minmatar Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:34:00 - [140] By the slaver hounds! You RP alliances dont want to give an inch do you? Create devisions with the alt corp you create to go fight with. I have only seen one person even comment on the alt corp thing so far all the rest of you are going [fingers in ears]lalalalala cant hear you!!![/fingers in ears] When CCP fixes it so Alliances can join you can. Grow up. No wonder you're late. Why, this watch is exactly two days slow. www.evefront.com
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:35:00 - [141] Originally by: Rodj Blake Here's another problem... PIE has over the years fought wars against a lot of different enemies. These enemies haven't just been Minmatars, but have also included various anarchist, blooder, Sansha and non-RP pirate groups. In fact, three of our current war enemies have no affiliation to the Minmatars. If we're forced to dissolve our alliance and join the FW militia, we will lose the ability to go to war against corps and alliances who are anti-Amarrian but don't like the Minnies much either. Brilliant! No doubt youre role playing out this serious dilema as I type? Whats the greater threat? The subversive elements of anti-amarrians?! The minmater?! Seriously - you do actually RP dont you? C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:36:00 - [142] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/05/2008 15:37:28 Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Rodj Blake Here's another problem... PIE has over the years fought wars against a lot of different enemies. These enemies haven't just been Minmatars, but have also included various anarchist, blooder, Sansha and non-RP pirate groups. In fact, three of our current war enemies have no affiliation to the Minmatars. If we're forced to dissolve our alliance and join the FW militia, we will lose the ability to go to war against corps and alliances who are anti-Amarrian but don't like the Minnies much either. Brilliant! No doubt youre role playing out this serious dilema as I type? Whats the greater threat? The subversive elements of anti-amarrians?! The minmater?! Seriously - you do actually RP dont you? C. Yes, I do. That's why I'm annoyed right now. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
maarud Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:47:00 - [143] I actually can't believe ppl are defending CCP on this one. Now its actually the Alliances fault that CCP can't be bothered to program a proper system in and would rather just reuse code. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:50:00 - [144] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/05/2008 15:37:28 Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Rodj Blake Here's another problem... PIE has over the years fought wars against a lot of different enemies. These enemies haven't just been Minmatars, but have also included various anarchist, blooder, Sansha and non-RP pirate groups. In fact, three of our current war enemies have no affiliation to the Minmatars. If we're forced to dissolve our alliance and join the FW militia, we will lose the ability to go to war against corps and alliances who are anti-Amarrian but don't like the Minnies much either. Brilliant! No doubt youre role playing out this serious dilema as I type? Whats the greater threat? The subversive elements of anti-amarrians?! The minmater?! Seriously - you do actually RP dont you? C. Yes, I do. That's why I'm annoyed right now. Cool your annoyed. And seriously I can see why, and you do have my sympathy (Ive even proposed a solution to the problem on features and ideas forum). But how will your character Rodj Blake feel? Isnt that an opportunity to roleplay? Nobody is saying 'right FW is here - all RP is banned'. Its an unparraled opportunity for RP'd debate, angst ridden discussion, angry words said in haste, bitterness and emotion. So what if someone (the Amarrian Empire) has thrown your orderd world into chaos - RP out the collapse and rebirth of PIE in perhaps another form? By all means lament the (possible) fall of PIE - but at least do it with style! C. A new look at Local - IDEA
5mokey McPot Caeco Dominus	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:52:00 - [145] I understand ccp trying to keep FW away from alliances, it would be easy for certain alliance to just blob everything around empire looking for easy kills and killing any small warfare. On the other hand though, RP has been held together my alliances like CVA and UK and to have them completely excluded seems somewhat unfair. As for the idea of creating alt corps, hows thyat a good idea for a space holding alliance? I bet every pilot in CVA wants to be part of FW so who would that leave to defend and run all the infurstructue they have setup in providence. I dont like the idea of set battlegrounds either, and if i take part in FW i will more than likely roam through high sec and certain low sec trying to avoid these battle arenas it just doesnt appeal to me to have battles setup this way.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:56:00 - [146] Originally by: 5mokey McPot I understand ccp trying to keep FW away from alliances, it would be easy for certain alliance to just blob everything around empire looking for easy kills and killing any small warfare. On the other hand though, RP has been held together my alliances like CVA and UK and to have them completely excluded seems somewhat unfair. As for the idea of creating alt corps, hows thyat a good idea for a space holding alliance? I bet every pilot in CVA wants to be part of FW so who would that leave to defend and run all the infurstructue they have setup in providence. I dont like the idea of set battlegrounds either, and if i take part in FW i will more than likely roam through high sec and certain low sec trying to avoid these battle arenas it just doesnt appeal to me to have battles setup this way. Naaaarrrgh!!!!! /me bangs head against brick wall. - THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. C. A new look at Local - IDEA
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:56:00 - [147] Originally by: 5mokey McPot As for the idea of creating alt corps, hows thyat a good idea for a space holding alliance? I bet every pilot in CVA wants to be part of FW so who would that leave to defend and run all the infurstructue they have setup in providence. Didn't CCP say they wanted to reduce the number of POSes that are being kept, and the size of territory that 0.0 alliances hold? This is them doing it, by giving all the PVPers a juicy carrot in Empire so they leave 0.0, and all the POS logistics become too cumbersome to maintain.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216 San Matari.	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:57:00 - [148] Originally by: maarud I actually can't believe ppl are defending CCP on this one. Now its actually the Alliances fault that CCP can't be bothered to program a proper system in and would rather just reuse code. The people doing that are too dim-witted to have half a clue. They don't understand what the problem actually is. What they are doing isn't defending CCP, it's s***posting, what they live off - as they savour their posts here when they can win argument points. San Matari Official forums
5mokey McPot Caeco Dominus	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:59:00 - [149] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: 5mokey McPot I understand ccp trying to keep FW away from alliances, it would be easy for certain alliance to just blob everything around empire looking for easy kills and killing any small warfare. On the other hand though, RP has been held together my alliances like CVA and UK and to have them completely excluded seems somewhat unfair. As for the idea of creating alt corps, hows thyat a good idea for a space holding alliance? I bet every pilot in CVA wants to be part of FW so who would that leave to defend and run all the infurstructue they have setup in providence. I dont like the idea of set battlegrounds either, and if i take part in FW i will more than likely roam through high sec and certain low sec trying to avoid these battle arenas it just doesnt appeal to me to have battles setup this way. Naaaarrrgh!!!!! /me bangs head against brick wall. - THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS. C. So the new region wont be fought over, where there is set deadspace areas for the people involved in FW to warp to and fight in?
Iqidis	Posted - 2008.05.16 15:59:00 - [150] Edited by: Iqidis on 16/05/2008 15:59:26 wrong char

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