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Batolemaeus Caldari Batolemaeus Corp	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:49:00 - [91] Originally by: Tippia Go take a look at the Crane [Crane, New Setup 1] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Ancillary Current Router I ? I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:00:00 - [92] Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: Tippia Go take a look at the Crane [Crane, New Setup 1] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Ancillary Current Router I ? I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners. /thread
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:27:00 - [93] Edited by: Siege on 17/05/2008 22:30:24 Originally by: Morcam Edited by: Morcam on 17/05/2008 21:13:16 Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 17/05/2008 20:53:10 Originally by: Morcam I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... Learn to reading comprehension! He said, nothing has changed, as people wheren't going into low sec before HICs either. There is no difference between now and then. Then you have the fact that a gallente recon can do the same job as a HIC. Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Given that he had only single WCS fitted, the HIC wasn't the issue there. I don't know an Arazu or Lachesis pilot in existance that doesn't fit at least 2 points scram at better than 30km. As mentioned, a 4 point fit is pretty easy to accomplish at those ranges as well, which will stop all but the most stab-happy gimped fits. Heck, it's not like it's hard to fit two points to quite a lot of ships out there. I use a dual scram hurricane all the time, catches all those 1-stab guys who think they are suddenly immune. Makes me giggle. ------ begin signature ----- Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:29:00 - [94] Originally by: Batolemaeus I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners. Using rigs… which gives the "biggest cargo" award to the Prowler.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:38:00 - [95] Originally by: Avoheja People stayed out of lowsec before HICs. Nothing has actually changed. The people who went into lowsec before had their reasons for doing so and those reasons are all still in place. Uh, yes people did. You could get through lowsec gatecamps with a nimble ship with a wcs or two, unless you got caught with too many points. Now its one ship, and you have to prepare for that one ship, cause they are everywhere now. There really is no point to a wcs anymore.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:42:00 - [96] HICs are broken, and their pilots should stop abusing easy mode.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:51:00 - [97] Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate.
Batolemaeus Caldari Batolemaeus Corp	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:04:00 - [98] Originally by: Tippia Using rigs… which gives the "biggest cargo" award to the Prowler. That's not the point. I would fit a Prowler with 2x inertia in the lows and two polys or one poly and a hyperspatial vel. optimizer, not with cargorigs. The Crane has the highest base cargo of all blockaderunners, and while comparing them i always asume a fit for best survivability.
Rose Nuke State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:10:00 - [99] it did hurt the blockade runners alot though they need to be changed cause a hic locks quick= pointless blockade runner
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:16:00 - [100] Originally by: Batolemaeus That's not the point. I would fit a Prowler with 2x inertia in the lows and two polys or one poly and a hyperspatial vel. optimizer, not with cargorigs. The Crane has the highest base cargo of all blockaderunners, and while comparing them i always asume a fit for best survivability. …well, my (admittedly nitpicking) point was that you can't both claim MWD capability and best cargo. Just as you can rig the Crane to overcome its PG weakness, you can mod the other BRs to overcome theirs (such as having slightly less cargo).

Vyktor Abyss EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.18 01:25:00 - [101] Well this topic certainly got further than it should.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.05.18 01:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Forge Lag Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate. That's the interesting part. The WCS already had a counter, and were nerfed anyway because they were being abused by too many pilots as a get out of jail free card in combat (see also: the future of nanos). Nerfed to the point where (almost) nobody used them anymore except on travel fits. And then they introduced the gallente recons, which added a lot more risk to using them for even simple travel fits. So, wow, we can totally gimp our fitting (speed and tank) for a small chance at getting through a gatecamp assuming they don't have a sensor boosted recon? SWEET! But seriously, did they need another, even better counter? Hell no. The most common answer to HICs worries me more than anything. "Fit an MWD and burn back to the gate" "Fit an MWD and burn out of the HIC's range" "Fit an MWD" "Fit an MWD" "Fit an MWD". Fit an MWD... answer to everything nowadays But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 04:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: James Lyrus The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. Well, the Prowler can be a pretty tight fit as well, but I supposed that depends on whether you want to tank it or not (admittedly, one of the main points of the BRs is that you're supposed to run instead). specious! the prowler has no need for mwd because the prowler is made of win even without it Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 07:10:00 - [104] Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:58:00 - [105] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Ok MWD. (early morning not feeling like writing much)
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:30:00 - [106] Originally by: Morcam Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Ok MWD. (early morning not feeling like writing much) Bolded the important parts for you. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.18 13:49:00 - [107] Originally by: Forge Lag Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate. /signed. WCS is now a completly usless module. +2 Stab bonus for Blockade runners is also now completely usless. HICS are not over powered, the infinipoint focused script on a fast locking HIC, however, is. I can't belive CCP put into a game built around counters, checks and balances, a SINGLE MODULE THAT HAS * INFINITE POWER . Originally by:* Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.18 14:01:00 - [108] Originally by: Kolwrath Originally by: Forge Lag Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate. /signed. WCS is now a completly usless module. +2 Stab bonus for Blockade runners is also now completely usless. HICS are not over powered, the infinipoint focused script on a fast locking HIC, however, is. I can't belive CCP put into a game built around counters, checks and balances, a SINGLE MODULE THAT HAS * INFINITE POWER *. I hear it's powerlevel is over 9000! But I have to agree, as someone big on Rocks, I have to say that scissors are fine, but paper's just blatently overpowered. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:04:00 - [109] Am I the only one here that hauls in lowsec using a well-fitted iteron III? I mean, I would use a blockade runner, but still haven't got enough skill, so using an iteron in the meanwhile. Met my share of gatecamps, and passed them. I don't know if they had HICs in them because my fitting didn't give them a chance to lock me. Granted, the powergrid of crane looks like any other blockade runner is much better. Also, I would say that the fact that the HIC makes completely useless fitting the WCS seems slightly unbalanced, but really, if you can't pass a lowsec camp without WCS you have to rethink your hauler's fitting.
Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:38:00 - [110] Edited by: Kolwrath on 18/05/2008 17:52:08 Edited by: Kolwrath on 18/05/2008 17:38:47 Originally by: James Lyrus But I have to agree, as someone big on Rocks, I have to say that scissors are fine, but paper's just blatently overpowered. Well to use your rock paper scissors analogy (which you seem oh so very fond of) essentialu we have a rock that can beat both scissors and paper. Doesn't seem right to me. BTW: I hate trolls ... /me looks in James Lyrus's direction. Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!

Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:31:00 - [111] Edited by: Morcam on 18/05/2008 20:32:50 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Ok MWD. (early morning not feeling like writing much) Bolded the important parts for you. As I'm now awake... Why the heck would I counter that particular setup with warp stabs? Since we're going to do this crap, please try countering 8 Overheated Stasis Webifier 2's, while still going over 5km/s. Asking irrelevant trolling questions isn't going to get you any answers. And yes, recons can be countered by Warp Stabs, just not that particular setup.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:50:00 - [112] Originally by: Morcam Why the heck would I counter that particular setup with warp stabs? Since we're going to do this crap, please try countering 8 Overheated Stasis Webifier 2's, while still going over 5km/s. Asking irrelevant trolling questions isn't going to get you any answers. And yes, recons can be countered by Warp Stabs, just not that particular setup. Well, in that case, HICs can be countered by warp stabs, just not when they are fitting the disruptor script thingie. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 - [113] Edited by: Morcam on 18/05/2008 22:00:24 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Why the heck would I counter that particular setup with warp stabs? Since we're going to do this crap, please try countering 8 Overheated Stasis Webifier 2's, while still going over 5km/s. Asking irrelevant trolling questions isn't going to get you any answers. And yes, recons can be countered by Warp Stabs, just not that particular setup. HIC's can be countered if they don't fit anything! Oh so very clever...
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:12:00 - [114] Edited by: Ki An on 18/05/2008 22:12:07 Originally by: Morcam Quote: HIC's can be countered if they don't fit anything! Oh so very clever... About as clever as you pointing out WCS can counter a gallente recon if they don't fit what they should. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Securion Wolfheart Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:12:00 - [115] People please... this is WoW in space, press some buttons and call it "PvP"... go get laid. The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns...
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:42:00 - [116] wow, not locked yet. ok let me state some very very good ideas to deal with these ebil hics. 1.....USE A SCOUT 2. use a scout 3. scout 4. use (in reference to 3 and 5) 5. it (see 3) 6. check map for ship kills 7. stay out of low sec... mkay 8. if all fails, quit eve, and play wow. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:44:00 - [117] Sup guys. Holy crap this thread is still alive. So much grasping for some kind of ridiculous justification for 30km infinipoint its so cute.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:20:00 - [118] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 19/05/2008 00:22:55 Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: Tippia Go take a look at the Crane [Crane, New Setup 1] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Ancillary Current Router I ? I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners. While not a superior tanker (though as people point out, if you're tanking solo in a Transport, you're dead anyway), this is more cargo, more agility, and no need for a PG enhancer to fit an MWD II. [Viator] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Expanded Cargohold II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Funny part is I've used a character skilled in Caldari Transports and not Gallente Transports for this comparison, so in actual fact the Viator is far superior, thanks to it not needing a PG expander, which is my biggest beef about the Crane. Improve Market Competition!
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Morcam I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... You lose all credibility the moment you use the word instalocking. Everything not warping fast enough not to be locked in time can likely be fitted to tank enough to make it back to the gate if caught by a solo HIC, save off course, T1 industrial, that are supposed to be vulnerable to warship. If you get caught in a huge camp well you die, like you always did. People using HIC now used Lachesis with 3 scrams before, HIC changed nothing wrt the balance of stabs, just made the supercap tackleable.
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:28:00 - [120] Edited by: Caius Sivaris on 19/05/2008 05:42:36 Originally by: HarderThisTime Now its one ship, and you have to prepare for that one ship, cause they are everywhere now. There really is no point to a wcs anymore. WCS still protects you from the ships that lock faster than a HIC yet can't pack an infinipoint. Some smart pies use a remote repaired assault frigate to tackle, likely with added sensor linking, you need stabs to escape them in about everything than a shuttle and an interceptor. A Sigil with 3 inertia stabilizers and 2 WCS is what I would fly if I flew T1 industrial in harm's way. Originally by: Space Wanderer Am I the only one here that hauls in lowsec using a well-fitted iteron III? I mean, I would use a blockade runner, but still haven't got enough skill, so using an iteron in the meanwhile. Met my share of gatecamps, and passed them. I don't know if they had HICs in them because my fitting didn't give them a chance to lock me. Congrats, you won EVE. What the morons calling for HIC nerf don't understand is that they should not be locked in the first place. There are no practical HIC setup with mwd, web and more than one sensor booster. That means either tackling ability will suck (sacrificing either of mwd or web) or lock time will suck (only one sensor booster). So either you run out of disruptor range or you warped before being locked. You can also run to gate tanking the HIC, they aren't exactly DPS powerhouse... That's assuming you have a decently fitted ship obviously. Why people expect an Iteron III with 3 Warp Core Stabilizer I to be safe from 120 millions in gear and months of training is a bit over my head. Remote sensor boosting changes the equation quite a bit but then than means big camp and those always caught everything but shuttles and inties. I'm a blockade runner pilot and don't especially fear HIC. Quote: Granted, the powergrid of crane looks like any other blockade runner is much better. The Crane also starts the most agile of all (lol Caldari ship most agile of its category) so can sacrifice a low slot for a PDS/RCU and still get in warp very fast. "The Crane can't fit MWD omg CCP fix it!" yet all the one you will find in the wild will have one, yes they'll have a fitting mod/rig, so what...



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