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AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:50:00 - [31] Originally by: HarderThisTime There's something wrong with HICs. Yeah. They're allergic to faction antimatter.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:58:00 - [32] Originally by: HarderThisTime There's something wrong with HICs. Yeah, they're not very good unless you've got a mom or a titan to tackle. Nice against stabs, of course, but so few people use those since the nerf that it doesn't tend to matter much. So you're right, HIC's need to be boosted - maybe they can give the Phobos a drone bay? I'd totally train for one then.
Illminatis	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:58:00 - [33] HICs have rendered blockade runners in low sec utterly useless. But then again, so did a sensor boosting Lachesis
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.17 07:07:00 - [34] Wow, this whine thread backfired early OP: Your mistake was thinking you where safe as long as you stabbed up. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Tacitus Krekt Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.17 07:08:00 - [35] Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 17/05/2008 07:14:04 Lets get the whole "I HATE INFIPOINTS" rant (that has been around a while) straight. Captain Ignorance> OH hai guys I'm going to jump into lowsec and expect nothing to happen! Captain Ignorance> PIWATES! omg ccp wtf is up with this! Captain Ignorance> [sic]"Loser pirates have to kill haulers, why don't you shoot something that fights back! You must live in moms basement/have no social life/other cliche: 'I'm **ed off so I get to rant without thinking' comeback." Captain Ignorance*> This can't be, I was stabbed. That is my only option ccp -- dammit, forum post time!* Like others have said, to avoid breaking your keyboard and scaring your neighbors: Burn. Away. The slugs can only point you from so far. Burn back to the gate. BUT WAIT! Do not burn immediately -- wait for the session change timer to expire before decloaking. Inertia is your friend here. Get a scout. NEVER assume that the route will be fine regardless of past experiences, time of day, or previous reports from friendlies of "how quiet" the route was.If you can't get a scout (or play solo) -- times will be tough. There are no "I-win" buttons in eve, as it has been said many-a-time before. Adaptation may be difficult to comprehend for some, as their only hope may lie in placing blame on a specific facet of gameplay to make their loss feel wronged. A gatecamp is meant to accomplish something (which surprisingly does not involve you getting through). Learn this, as incessant babbling will accomplish little if you don't try to make a point other than "NERF BECAUSE IT SUCKS."
Homer v2	Posted - 2008.05.17 07:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Illminatis HICs have rendered blockade runners in low sec utterly useless. But then again, so did a sensor boosting Lachesis I fly my blockade runner through low sec on a daily basis, never use scout and haven't lost it since I got it 7-8 months ago. You just have to fit it right and use it right. Don't fly afk and don't fit cargo expanders. Nano's, instabs and low friction nozzle joints are your friends. Cloak, MWD, ECM Burst and Nomad or Snake implants are handy to.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 08:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Gwendion And you go into PvP without an MWD because... You do realise that there are ships that effectively can't fit an MWD, don't you? As in "if you fit one, you go slower than using an AB" or as in "if you fit one, you cannot fit anything else". Most notably, this happens with things like blockade runners – you know, those ships that are (supposedly) purpose-built to be quick enough to avoind these kinds of things….
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.05.17 08:49:00 - [38] Originally by: HarderThisTime Because he tackled me? These things dont have a speed penalty in focused mode, you know. Yes they do. Apart from the obvious change in the disruptors behaviour the only other change a focused script makes is that you can warp out while warp scrambling where as in bubble mode you're a sitting duck.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.17 08:53:00 - [39] Originally by: HarderThisTime There's something wrong with HICs. There is something wrong with your forum portrait... I've gone and dry heaved at least 3 times since seeing it. And there is nothing wrong with HIC's. Learn to fly your ship. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Vyktor Abyss EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:03:00 - [40] I just want to point out that not everyone has the luxury of a scout. 99% of the time you'd really need a 2nd account for a scout - I can't be arsed with that.

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 08:48:28 Originally by: Gwendion And you go into PvP without an MWD because... You do realise that there are ships that effectively can't fit an MWD, don't you? As in "if you fit one, you go slower than using an AB" or as in "if you fit one, you cannot fit anything else". Most notably, this happens with things like many of the blockade runners û you know, those ships that are (supposedly) purpose-built to be quick enough to avoid these kinds of thingsà. ` What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? PRO TIP: Train Engineering to 5. My Alt's Viator: High: T2 Cloak Meds: Y-T8 MWD, EM resist amp, Thermal resist amp Lows: 2x nanofibre II, Inertial Stabiliser II Rigs: 2x Low Friction Nozzle Joints With her mediocre nav skills it hits about 2.3Kms -it's fitted for agility, not speed: it gets in to warp as fast as my Crow. When I'm flying it, I certainly don't worry at all about HICs. In fact I don't worry about anything less than a camp of 6+ competent gate-campers in a T1 Large bubble. In theory, a heavily remote sensor-boosted HIC could lock it before it warps, but he'd have to have a very high scan res and the player would have to be very quick indeed. The least bit of lag and it's simply impossible. Oh yeah and when I'm carrying genuinely valuable cargo, I scout ahead in my Falcon. Happily, the fastest locking ships are also generally the easiest to jam... Moving a battleship through lo-sec, I generally fit a heavy Neut or 2. HICs have tiny capacitors compared to the pain a couple of Heavy Unstables can inflict. If the HIC has a lot of friends then sure, I'm boned. But that just proves that many ships > 1 ship, which shouldn't surprise anyone. Anyone who flies a slow ship unscouted solo hrough hostile space can hardly complain if they lose it. That's not game balance, that's just plain stupidity. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:21:00 - [42] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss I just want to point out that not everyone has the luxury of a scout. 99% of the time you'd really need a 2nd account for a scout - I can't be arsed with that. Then I suggest they join a corp or alliance where people are willing to help them. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:24:00 - [43] Quote: HICs have rendered blockade runners in low sec utterly useless. Only truely incompetent blockade runner pilots die in lowsec. Ah, I think I see the problem here. Sigh. The whining is just about tolerable. It's the stupidity that really offends me.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:28:00 - [44] Wow this is some angry bear we have here. I will reply in kind. There is nothing wrong with HICs. You can slap multiple WCS on any ship with only the skill warp drive op I. To counter this you need a specialised tech 2 ship that requires racial cruiser V and many other skills to level V. The good pirates used sensor boosted Lachesis/Arazus to acheive the effect of a HIC before HICs were made so no, nothing has actually changed. If you don't like it, then quit. No one likes a whiner and CCP doesn't care about you quitting because you are a lame whiner that will quit soon enough.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 – and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster – giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s.
Mikal Drey Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve Me too, they are ******* awesome \o/
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:59:00 - [47] The Crane is a blockade runner in name only. It's a terrible ship. It's fat, slow, heavy and, as you rightly point out, needs an implant or fitting mod to fit a MWD. Do not use a Crane.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Gypsio III The Crane is a blockade runner in name only. It's a terrible ship. It's fat, slow, heavy and, as you rightly point out, needs an implant or fitting mod to fit a MWD. Exactly. And the Crapne is still miles ahead of normal indys. Again, the point is: it's easy to say "fit MWD", but it's not always a usable solution.
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:06:00 - [49] But the other blockade runners are fine. The problem is the Crane, not HICs.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Gypsio III The problem is the Crane, not HICs. Oh, absolutely – it's just that the knee-jerk "fit MWD" counter-argument makes me cringe.

Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:30:00 - [51] [Lachesis, HIC] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Speed Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Valkyrie II x4 Yes, this thing can tank the Sentries just long enough for T1-Haulers to pop, and it works even better, as it has way more ScanResolution then a HIC. Gate-Sentries do 352DPS before resistances, so you've approx a minute, before you need to warp out. .
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Gwendion Originally by: HarderThisTime I am pleased that most proposed counters are not possible by many ships, even the ones specifically designed for it. Very very good! And you go into PvP without an MWD because... Also, jetting back to the gate is always possible. Ive seen webbed battleships make it when our DPS was low. lots of ppl go into pvp without mwd, tho tbh the ones that do will probably ***your face Originally by:** Elise Randolph Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:20:00 - [53] Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/05/2008 12:20:43 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 11:01:50 Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 – and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need – it's also nigh-impossible to find on the market). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster – giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s. The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. In answer to the OP: A Hactor has a high mass, and low firepower. It's therefore actually pretty easy to outrun. Light MWD, leave it's point range, and warp off laughing. Even if you are unlucky to be in web range when you decloak, you will still probably be _out_ of web range before it's locked you. I see this happen a lot. Not everyone fails at Internet Spaceships. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:25:00 - [54] Originally by: James Lyrus The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. Well, the Prowler can be a pretty tight fit as well, but I supposed that depends on whether you want to tank it or not (admittedly, one of the main points of the BRs is that you're supposed to run instead).
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:53:00 - [55] I use my Prowler almost every day, as a giant smartbomb-resistant shuttle often. Yes, it can't fit a T2 MWD but it's already the fastest BR, so that's no great loss. Since I'm also a pirate, I know just how hard it would be to stop my Prowler.
Syniztur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:59:00 - [56] Quote: 1. use a scout 2. use a scout 3. use a scout 4. use a scout 5. can i haz your stuff 6. follow my sig suggestion (wow isnt all that bad if you ignore the other ppl) 7. use a scout 8. dont go into low sec 9. dont go into low sec, use a scout 10. dont buy isk, its bad 11. drugs are bad, use a scout 12. use a scout, no drugs are good 13. use a drug, i mean scout 14. sell drugs to scouts, i mean use a scout 15. repeat steps 1-15 I think I'm seeing a pattern here -------------------------------------------------- \| Do unto others, before they can do unto you! \| --------------------------------------------------
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 11:01:50 Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 û and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need û it's also nigh-impossible to find on the market). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster û giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s. My corpmate runs a 5-jump, heavily camped lowsec route in Molden Heath regularly... in a Crane. He has no problem hauling things like +4 implants, BPCs, NPC Pos Fuels and other similarly expensive goods to be jumped down to our nullsec home. Crane is fine imo.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:29:00 - [58] Originally by: Avoheja My corpmate runs a 5-jump, heavily camped lowsec route in Molden Heath regularly... in a Crane. He has no problem hauling things like +4 implants, BPCs, NPC Pos Fuels and other similarly expensive goods to be jumped down to our nullsec home. Crane is fine imo. Ye…e…es? Your point being? I'm willing to bet that he isn't using an MWD to get out of bubbles either, which was the entire issue.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:36:00 - [59] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Avoheja My corpmate runs a 5-jump, heavily camped lowsec route in Molden Heath regularly... in a Crane. He has no problem hauling things like +4 implants, BPCs, NPC Pos Fuels and other similarly expensive goods to be jumped down to our nullsec home. Crane is fine imo. Yeàeàes? Your point being? I'm willing to bet that he isn't using an MWD to get out of bubbles either, which was the entire issue. No. It wasn't. 30km Infinipoint != bubbles. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Tippia Yeàeàes? Your point being? I'm willing to bet that he isn't using an MWD to get out of bubbles either, which was the entire issue. No. It wasn't. 30km Infinipoint != bubbles. This ^^ Thanks Havohej o/



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