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HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:41:00 - [1] i am so glad this was added to eve
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:42:00 - [2] Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve What is that? Not very informative post?
Idara Caldari Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:42:00 - [3] Lose a stabbed hauler or something? --- in EVE - Idara
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve What is that? Not very informative post? Oh, sorry! Its tech 2 heavy combat cruisers with a 30km warp scrambler that puts 100 points of warp scramble strength on you. Unavoidable death to anything that can't take on a heavy combat cruiser. You should try it. I am satisfied with my play session.
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:49:00 - [5] Have you considered: a) not entering bubble in the first place b) leaving bubble asap c) bring friends warp drive active \| nature vraie
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:51:00 - [6] Heh, I actually think he's saying it's a good ship, not that he lost something to it,,,,
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:51:00 - [7] Running over them in a Hyperion is always fun...
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Winterblink Have you considered: a) not entering bubble in the first place b) leaving bubble asap c) bring friends Warp Disruption Field Generator Focused Warp Disruption script Will you be my friend?
Winterblink Body Count Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Heh, I actually think he's saying it's a good ship, not that he lost something to it,,,, Possibly :) Either way it's a cool addition to the game. :) warp drive active \| nature vraie
Gwendion Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Winterblink Have you considered: a) not entering bubble in the first place b) leaving bubble asap c) bring friends He means the script, aka Pirates. Not the bubbles you and I are familiar with. -------------------- OH NOES! You might have to run for the gate? Try using your brain my friend. Bowling them over? Check. Running back to the gate? Check. Burning off at 5k/sec? Check. Ever notice the drawbacks on those things? Its like outrunning a snail, a braindead couch could do it before getting killed. =) Learn some tactics or evasion before forum posting. Me? Id complain about people with big wallets affording pretty ships to fly. now that really gets my goat going.

Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.17 04:58:00 - [11] Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve What is that? Not very informative post? Oh, sorry! Its tech 2 heavy combat cruisers with a 30km warp scrambler that puts 100 points of warp scramble strength on you. Unavoidable death to anything that can't take on a heavy combat cruiser. You should try it. I am satisfied with my play session. 1. use a scout 2. use a scout 3. use a scout 4. use a scout 5. can i haz your stuff 6. follow my sig suggestion (wow isnt all that bad if you ignore the other ppl) 7. use a scout 8. dont go into low sec 9. dont go into low sec, use a scout 10. dont buy isk, its bad 11. drugs are bad, use a scout 12. use a scout, no drugs are good 13. use a drug, i mean scout 14. sell drugs to scouts, i mean use a scout 15. repeat steps 1-15 Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Zurrar Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve What is that? Not very informative post? Oh, sorry! Its tech 2 heavy combat cruisers with a 30km warp scrambler that puts 100 points of warp scramble strength on you. Unavoidable death to anything that can't take on a heavy combat cruiser. You should try it. I am satisfied with my play session. 1. use a scout 2. use a scout 3. use a scout 4. use a scout 5. can i haz your stuff 6. follow my sig suggestion (wow isnt all that bad if you ignore the other ppl) 7. use a scout 8. dont go into low sec 9. dont go into low sec, use a scout 10. dont buy isk, its bad 11. drugs are bad, use a scout 12. use a scout, no drugs are good 13. use a drug, i mean scout 14. sell drugs to scouts, i mean use a scout 15. repeat steps 1-15 No im gonna voice how happy I am these things were added to eve. You can use a scout though, you are obviously very excited about scouting!
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Gwendion Originally by: Winterblink Have you considered: a) not entering bubble in the first place b) leaving bubble asap c) bring friends He means the script, aka Pirates. Not the bubbles you and I are familiar with. -------------------- OH NOES! You might have to run for the gate? Try using your brain my friend. Bowling them over? Check. Running back to the gate? Check. Burning off at 5k/sec? Check. Ever notice the drawbacks on those things? Its like outrunning a snail, a braindead couch could do it before getting killed. =) Learn some tactics or evasion before forum posting. Me? Id complain about people with big wallets affording pretty ships to fly. now that really gets my goat going. I am pleased that most proposed counters are not possible by many ships, even the ones specifically designed for it. Very very good!
Gwendion Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:06:00 - [14] Originally by: HarderThisTime I am pleased that most proposed counters are not possible by many ships, even the ones specifically designed for it. Very very good! And you go into PvP without an MWD because... Also, jetting back to the gate is always possible. Ive seen webbed battleships make it when our DPS was low.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:08:00 - [15] /me checks most killboards If you say so!
Stephannus Calimben Trill Crabulas Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Gwendion Originally by: HarderThisTime I am pleased that most proposed counters are not possible by many ships, even the ones specifically designed for it. Very very good! And you go into PvP without an MWD because... Also, jetting back to the gate is always possible. Ive seen webbed battleships make it when our DPS was low. This. I fly one of the aforementioned dictor+isruptor+script. Theyre great for catching stabmonkeys, but thats about it. The lach has better range, faster lock, though not as much strength/range. Need to escape a dictor? 1) If he's by himself, you can prob tank his measley damage while making it back to gate, or if you're in a gank BS you can prob kill him 2) if he has a few friends, try MWDing back to gate, or out of his range 3) if nobody on gate has a web, then you can prob slowboat back to gate 4) focused disruptor causes cap problems. Neuts are your friend 5) ecm drones anybody? camps with a dictor usually get lazy, and let others forgo their points for other ewar goodies 6) use a scout If none of those counters work, then its because you're either A) unprepared for pvp or B) finding yourself in a well organized pirate camp. Either of those means you deserve to die.
Gwendion Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:17:00 - [17] Oh.. Caldari Mission runner using a drake: http://eve-search.com/thread/717561/page/1#2 And your failure to understand how tackling works: http://eve-search.com/thread/713032/page/1#13 Ok, makes more sense now. Yeah, Please learn to PvP before complaining about it. tks. No, seriously, you should learn. There are many plausible, and good PvP corps that accept new players and teach them. It would be good for you. Then perhaps you would know why the Scripted warp disrupt isnt as OMGINSTAIWINBUTTON11111!!! you think it is.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:27:00 - [18] Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/05/2008 05:31:18 Hi. Pvp changed with these relatively new modules. http://www.evehq.net/database.aspx?view=t&id=10998 These are supposedly supposed to do something. These take up low slots. The max any ship can have is 8. Unfortunately this means you can't fit 100 of them. Oh and I was flying a hauler with 1 wcs 3 mass reducers, a mwd, and 2 med shield extenders. Anyways you guys stop raining on my parade, this was an awesome night in eve for me. Made 30k realm points since I logged off, damn good night indeed.
Ayari Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:31:00 - [19] Use a scout! Also, inertia stablisers are great, you can align before he has you locked. Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:33:00 - [20] Quote: http://eve-search.com/thread/717561/page/1#2 Rofl, this is win. What did you fit to your drake that it dies in a lvl 3 mission?

Jecob	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:35:00 - [21] Edited by: Jecob on 17/05/2008 05:39:27 Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Zurrar Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve What is that? Not very informative post? Oh, sorry! Its tech 2 heavy combat cruisers with a 30km warp scrambler that puts 100 points of warp scramble strength on you. Unavoidable death to anything that can't take on a heavy combat cruiser. You should try it. I am satisfied with my play session. 1. use a scout 2. use a scout 3. use a scout 4. use a scout 5. can i haz your stuff 6. follow my sig suggestion (wow isnt all that bad if you ignore the other ppl) 7. use a scout 8. dont go into low sec 9. dont go into low sec, use a scout 10. dont buy isk, its bad 11. drugs are bad, use a scout 12. use a scout, no drugs are good 13. use a drug, i mean scout 14. sell drugs to scouts, i mean use a scout 15. repeat steps 1-15 No im gonna voice how happy I am these things were added to eve. You can use a scout though, you are obviously very excited about scouting! I like the idea about giving drugs to the scout, also use a mwd.
Hannobaal Gallente Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:37:00 - [22] Originally by: HarderThisTime Oh and I was flying a hauler with 1 wcs 3 mass reducers, a mwd, and 2 med shield extenders. And you were neither able to align and warp before you were locked, nor able to move out of his range and warp once locked, why exactly?
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:40:00 - [23] Originally by: Hanneshannes Quote: http://eve-search.com/thread/717561/page/1#2 Rofl, this is win. What did you fit to your drake that it dies in a lvl 3 mission? I was afk and had 30 blood cruisers on me. Hahaha someone that went afk in a drake posted how happy he was about heavy dictors! What? Aight~
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: HarderThisTime Oh and I was flying a hauler with 1 wcs 3 mass reducers, a mwd, and 2 med shield extenders. And you were neither able to align and warp before you were locked, nor able to move out of his range and warp once locked, why exactly? Because he tackled me? These things dont have a speed penalty in focused mode, you know.
Evita Achura Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:55:00 - [25] I believe it was said that if you troll correctly no one will have noticed that you trolled at all? Mmmmmkaaay?
Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:56:00 - [26] Your stuff. Can I have it? ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.17 05:57:00 - [27] Originally by: HarderThisTime Originally by: Hanneshannes Quote: http://eve-search.com/thread/717561/page/1#2 Rofl, this is win. What did you fit to your drake that it dies in a lvl 3 mission? I was afk and had 30 blood cruisers on me. Hahaha someone that went afk in a drake posted how happy he was about heavy dictors! What? Aight~ There are no blood cruisers in that mission, at least I never saw any.
PwnzDeLeOwnz Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:02:00 - [28] Edited by: PwnzDeLeOwnz on 17/05/2008 06:02:16 mispost
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:06:00 - [29] Whatever, something doing a damage type I wasn't tanked for. I see now, if I had properly tanked my drake and not gone afk all those months ago, it would have changed th... no wait it has nothing to do with anything.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:38:00 - [30] There's something wrong with HICs.

AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:50:00 - [31] Originally by: HarderThisTime There's something wrong with HICs. Yeah. They're allergic to faction antimatter.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:58:00 - [32] Originally by: HarderThisTime There's something wrong with HICs. Yeah, they're not very good unless you've got a mom or a titan to tackle. Nice against stabs, of course, but so few people use those since the nerf that it doesn't tend to matter much. So you're right, HIC's need to be boosted - maybe they can give the Phobos a drone bay? I'd totally train for one then.
Illminatis	Posted - 2008.05.17 06:58:00 - [33] HICs have rendered blockade runners in low sec utterly useless. But then again, so did a sensor boosting Lachesis
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.17 07:07:00 - [34] Wow, this whine thread backfired early OP: Your mistake was thinking you where safe as long as you stabbed up. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Tacitus Krekt Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.05.17 07:08:00 - [35] Edited by: Tacitus Krekt on 17/05/2008 07:14:04 Lets get the whole "I HATE INFIPOINTS" rant (that has been around a while) straight. Captain Ignorance> OH hai guys I'm going to jump into lowsec and expect nothing to happen! Captain Ignorance> PIWATES! omg ccp wtf is up with this! Captain Ignorance> [sic]"Loser pirates have to kill haulers, why don't you shoot something that fights back! You must live in moms basement/have no social life/other cliche: 'I'm **ed off so I get to rant without thinking' comeback." Captain Ignorance*> This can't be, I was stabbed. That is my only option ccp -- dammit, forum post time!* Like others have said, to avoid breaking your keyboard and scaring your neighbors: Burn. Away. The slugs can only point you from so far. Burn back to the gate. BUT WAIT! Do not burn immediately -- wait for the session change timer to expire before decloaking. Inertia is your friend here. Get a scout. NEVER assume that the route will be fine regardless of past experiences, time of day, or previous reports from friendlies of "how quiet" the route was.If you can't get a scout (or play solo) -- times will be tough. There are no "I-win" buttons in eve, as it has been said many-a-time before. Adaptation may be difficult to comprehend for some, as their only hope may lie in placing blame on a specific facet of gameplay to make their loss feel wronged. A gatecamp is meant to accomplish something (which surprisingly does not involve you getting through). Learn this, as incessant babbling will accomplish little if you don't try to make a point other than "NERF BECAUSE IT SUCKS."
Homer v2	Posted - 2008.05.17 07:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Illminatis HICs have rendered blockade runners in low sec utterly useless. But then again, so did a sensor boosting Lachesis I fly my blockade runner through low sec on a daily basis, never use scout and haven't lost it since I got it 7-8 months ago. You just have to fit it right and use it right. Don't fly afk and don't fit cargo expanders. Nano's, instabs and low friction nozzle joints are your friends. Cloak, MWD, ECM Burst and Nomad or Snake implants are handy to.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 08:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Gwendion And you go into PvP without an MWD because... You do realise that there are ships that effectively can't fit an MWD, don't you? As in "if you fit one, you go slower than using an AB" or as in "if you fit one, you cannot fit anything else". Most notably, this happens with things like blockade runners – you know, those ships that are (supposedly) purpose-built to be quick enough to avoind these kinds of things….
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.05.17 08:49:00 - [38] Originally by: HarderThisTime Because he tackled me? These things dont have a speed penalty in focused mode, you know. Yes they do. Apart from the obvious change in the disruptors behaviour the only other change a focused script makes is that you can warp out while warp scrambling where as in bubble mode you're a sitting duck.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.05.17 08:53:00 - [39] Originally by: HarderThisTime There's something wrong with HICs. There is something wrong with your forum portrait... I've gone and dry heaved at least 3 times since seeing it. And there is nothing wrong with HIC's. Learn to fly your ship. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Vyktor Abyss EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:03:00 - [40] I just want to point out that not everyone has the luxury of a scout. 99% of the time you'd really need a 2nd account for a scout - I can't be arsed with that.

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 08:48:28 Originally by: Gwendion And you go into PvP without an MWD because... You do realise that there are ships that effectively can't fit an MWD, don't you? As in "if you fit one, you go slower than using an AB" or as in "if you fit one, you cannot fit anything else". Most notably, this happens with things like many of the blockade runners û you know, those ships that are (supposedly) purpose-built to be quick enough to avoid these kinds of thingsà. ` What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? PRO TIP: Train Engineering to 5. My Alt's Viator: High: T2 Cloak Meds: Y-T8 MWD, EM resist amp, Thermal resist amp Lows: 2x nanofibre II, Inertial Stabiliser II Rigs: 2x Low Friction Nozzle Joints With her mediocre nav skills it hits about 2.3Kms -it's fitted for agility, not speed: it gets in to warp as fast as my Crow. When I'm flying it, I certainly don't worry at all about HICs. In fact I don't worry about anything less than a camp of 6+ competent gate-campers in a T1 Large bubble. In theory, a heavily remote sensor-boosted HIC could lock it before it warps, but he'd have to have a very high scan res and the player would have to be very quick indeed. The least bit of lag and it's simply impossible. Oh yeah and when I'm carrying genuinely valuable cargo, I scout ahead in my Falcon. Happily, the fastest locking ships are also generally the easiest to jam... Moving a battleship through lo-sec, I generally fit a heavy Neut or 2. HICs have tiny capacitors compared to the pain a couple of Heavy Unstables can inflict. If the HIC has a lot of friends then sure, I'm boned. But that just proves that many ships > 1 ship, which shouldn't surprise anyone. Anyone who flies a slow ship unscouted solo hrough hostile space can hardly complain if they lose it. That's not game balance, that's just plain stupidity. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:21:00 - [42] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss I just want to point out that not everyone has the luxury of a scout. 99% of the time you'd really need a 2nd account for a scout - I can't be arsed with that. Then I suggest they join a corp or alliance where people are willing to help them. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:24:00 - [43] Quote: HICs have rendered blockade runners in low sec utterly useless. Only truely incompetent blockade runner pilots die in lowsec. Ah, I think I see the problem here. Sigh. The whining is just about tolerable. It's the stupidity that really offends me.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:28:00 - [44] Wow this is some angry bear we have here. I will reply in kind. There is nothing wrong with HICs. You can slap multiple WCS on any ship with only the skill warp drive op I. To counter this you need a specialised tech 2 ship that requires racial cruiser V and many other skills to level V. The good pirates used sensor boosted Lachesis/Arazus to acheive the effect of a HIC before HICs were made so no, nothing has actually changed. If you don't like it, then quit. No one likes a whiner and CCP doesn't care about you quitting because you are a lame whiner that will quit soon enough.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 – and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster – giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s.
Mikal Drey Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:50:00 - [46] Originally by: HarderThisTime i am so glad this was added to eve Me too, they are ******* awesome \o/
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 10:59:00 - [47] The Crane is a blockade runner in name only. It's a terrible ship. It's fat, slow, heavy and, as you rightly point out, needs an implant or fitting mod to fit a MWD. Do not use a Crane.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Gypsio III The Crane is a blockade runner in name only. It's a terrible ship. It's fat, slow, heavy and, as you rightly point out, needs an implant or fitting mod to fit a MWD. Exactly. And the Crapne is still miles ahead of normal indys. Again, the point is: it's easy to say "fit MWD", but it's not always a usable solution.
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:06:00 - [49] But the other blockade runners are fine. The problem is the Crane, not HICs.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Gypsio III The problem is the Crane, not HICs. Oh, absolutely – it's just that the knee-jerk "fit MWD" counter-argument makes me cringe.

Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:30:00 - [51] [Lachesis, HIC] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Speed Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Valkyrie II x4 Yes, this thing can tank the Sentries just long enough for T1-Haulers to pop, and it works even better, as it has way more ScanResolution then a HIC. Gate-Sentries do 352DPS before resistances, so you've approx a minute, before you need to warp out. .
Halkin Locus Solus	Posted - 2008.05.17 11:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Gwendion Originally by: HarderThisTime I am pleased that most proposed counters are not possible by many ships, even the ones specifically designed for it. Very very good! And you go into PvP without an MWD because... Also, jetting back to the gate is always possible. Ive seen webbed battleships make it when our DPS was low. lots of ppl go into pvp without mwd, tho tbh the ones that do will probably ***your face Originally by:** Elise Randolph Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:20:00 - [53] Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/05/2008 12:20:43 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 11:01:50 Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 – and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need – it's also nigh-impossible to find on the market). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster – giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s. The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. In answer to the OP: A Hactor has a high mass, and low firepower. It's therefore actually pretty easy to outrun. Light MWD, leave it's point range, and warp off laughing. Even if you are unlucky to be in web range when you decloak, you will still probably be _out_ of web range before it's locked you. I see this happen a lot. Not everyone fails at Internet Spaceships. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:25:00 - [54] Originally by: James Lyrus The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. Well, the Prowler can be a pretty tight fit as well, but I supposed that depends on whether you want to tank it or not (admittedly, one of the main points of the BRs is that you're supposed to run instead).
Gypsio III Bambooule	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:53:00 - [55] I use my Prowler almost every day, as a giant smartbomb-resistant shuttle often. Yes, it can't fit a T2 MWD but it's already the fastest BR, so that's no great loss. Since I'm also a pirate, I know just how hard it would be to stop my Prowler.
Syniztur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.17 12:59:00 - [56] Quote: 1. use a scout 2. use a scout 3. use a scout 4. use a scout 5. can i haz your stuff 6. follow my sig suggestion (wow isnt all that bad if you ignore the other ppl) 7. use a scout 8. dont go into low sec 9. dont go into low sec, use a scout 10. dont buy isk, its bad 11. drugs are bad, use a scout 12. use a scout, no drugs are good 13. use a drug, i mean scout 14. sell drugs to scouts, i mean use a scout 15. repeat steps 1-15 I think I'm seeing a pattern here -------------------------------------------------- \| Do unto others, before they can do unto you! \| --------------------------------------------------
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 11:01:50 Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 û and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need û it's also nigh-impossible to find on the market). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster û giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s. My corpmate runs a 5-jump, heavily camped lowsec route in Molden Heath regularly... in a Crane. He has no problem hauling things like +4 implants, BPCs, NPC Pos Fuels and other similarly expensive goods to be jumped down to our nullsec home. Crane is fine imo.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:29:00 - [58] Originally by: Avoheja My corpmate runs a 5-jump, heavily camped lowsec route in Molden Heath regularly... in a Crane. He has no problem hauling things like +4 implants, BPCs, NPC Pos Fuels and other similarly expensive goods to be jumped down to our nullsec home. Crane is fine imo. Ye…e…es? Your point being? I'm willing to bet that he isn't using an MWD to get out of bubbles either, which was the entire issue.
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:36:00 - [59] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Avoheja My corpmate runs a 5-jump, heavily camped lowsec route in Molden Heath regularly... in a Crane. He has no problem hauling things like +4 implants, BPCs, NPC Pos Fuels and other similarly expensive goods to be jumped down to our nullsec home. Crane is fine imo. Yeàeàes? Your point being? I'm willing to bet that he isn't using an MWD to get out of bubbles either, which was the entire issue. No. It wasn't. 30km Infinipoint != bubbles. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: Tippia Yeàeàes? Your point being? I'm willing to bet that he isn't using an MWD to get out of bubbles either, which was the entire issue. No. It wasn't. 30km Infinipoint != bubbles. This ^^ Thanks Havohej o/

Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:38:00 - [61] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 17/05/2008 13:38:12 Originally by: Ayari Use a scout! I love people who use a scout. Let the scout pass freely and then uncoak and bubble the main -- Billion Isk Mission
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:43:00 - [62] Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 13:45:46 Originally by: Havohej No. It wasn't. 30km Infinipoint != bubbles. Onoz! I called one thing something else (both of which were unrelated to the issue at hand). The issue of the quoted chain was the use of MWDs, and that Cranes can't use them to get out of a hictor's range. Anecdotal evidence of a buddy using a Crane does not have anything to do with that. Now, admittedly, this quote chain is a side-track to the thread itself, but if you want to comment on the main issue (infinipoints), then you shouldn't quote a discussion about the limitations of Crane/MWD combos. Quoting in context is good for you.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 13:52:00 - [63] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Havohej No. It wasn't. 30km Infinipoint != bubbles. Onoz! I called one thing something else (both of which were unrelated). The issue of the quoted chain was the use of MWDs, and that Cranes can't use them to get out of a hictor's range. Anecdotal evidence of a buddy using a Crane does not have anything to do with that. When one of the neighborhood pirate corps (Beyond Divinity) camps with a Phobos every single day, yeah... it's got something to do with it. If he's not using an MWD, then guess what? He's getting past that Phobos ANOTHER way. I'll leave it to you guys to figure out how - why bother helping you move your goods, hm? As to 'both of which' being 'unrelated to the issue at hand', the topic of the thread is the 30km infinipoint. Not bubbles. In the 'quoted chain' that you point out, Malcanis didn't mention bubbles. Neither did you, for that matter. You only mentioned bubbles (which, you're right, ARE unrelated to the issue at hand, which is 30km infinipoint) after I pointed out that the Crane is more than capable of passing HICs in lowsec (where, by the way, they can't use bubbles at all). Quoting in context?
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Avoheja If he's not using an MWD, then guess what? He's getting past that Phobos ANOTHER way. …which further proves my entire point: that the knee-jerk "fit MWD" answer won't work for all ships. Quote: As to 'both of which' being 'unrelated to the issue at hand', the topic of the thread is the 30km infinipoint. Not bubbles. …and the topic of the quote chain is about Cranes not being able to fit MWDs. The comment about the low-sec buddy in question didn't really add anything to that debate, and had no real point in that context.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:04:00 - [65] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Avoheja If he's not using an MWD, then guess what? He's getting past that Phobos ANOTHER way. àwhich further proves my entire point: that the knee-jerk "fit MWD" answer won't work for all ships. Quote: As to 'both of which' being 'unrelated to the issue at hand', the topic of the thread is the 30km infinipoint. Not bubbles. àand the topic of the quote chain is about Cranes not being able to fit MWDs. The comment about the low-sec buddy in question didn't really add anything to that debate, and had no real point in that context. On the contrary. My 'real point in that context' is that it's irrelevant whether it can fit the MWD or not - it can get past the HIC.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:10:00 - [66] Originally by: Avoheja On the contrary. My 'real point in that context' is that it's irrelevant whether it can fit the MWD or not - it can get past the HIC. Good, then you've answered the question I posed on the last page. Glad we sorted that out. Just to be contrary though (), I would argue that going 2.5km/s (or nearly 600m/s cloaked) is far better than 850m/s in the open…
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:12:00 - [67] Edited by: Havohej on 17/05/2008 14:13:11 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Avoheja On the contrary. My 'real point in that context' is that it's irrelevant whether it can fit the MWD or not - it can get past the HIC. Good, then you've answered the question I posed on the last page. Glad we sorted that out. Just to be contrary though (), I would argue that going 2.5km/s (or nearly 600m/s cloaked) is far better than 850m/s in the openà Depends if you're skilled enough to align and get into warp before a sensor boosted HIC can lock you imo. EDIT for clarity: I mean skilled on the character sheet - I don't imagine it takes too much skill to click warp. Then again, it IS a player skill to zoom in on your cloaked ship and find something you're already mostly aligned to before you drop your gatecloak effect... hm. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:28:00 - [68] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: James Lyrus The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. Well, the Prowler can be a pretty tight fit as well, but I supposed that depends on whether you want to tank it or not (admittedly, one of the main points of the BRs is that you're supposed to run instead). Prowler can fit MWD and modules. Crane cannot. If you're taking your blockade runner beyond fitting some hardeners, then you've done something wrong. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:31:00 - [69] Correct me if I'm wrong, but: HICs take much less training than recons HICs can do, with one slot, the job of many, many modules (100?) The penalty for using the focused script, that is supposed to prevent remote assistance, does not apply when the module is inactive allowing remote sensor boosting, further reducing the need for the HIC pilot to "fit for the job" I fully understand the need there was for a cap ship counter, especially in low-sec where bubbles were impossible. I simply cannot appreciate the ease of use of such a powerful ship in general, however. They do not need to lock fast to lock cap ships, and shouldn't be able to receive remote assistance with the script loaded. IMO they do too much for not needing to compromise their own fittings whatsoever. That's about all that's wrong with them. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.17 14:47:00 - [70] Originally by: Wet Ferret IMO they do too much for not needing to compromise their own fittings whatsoever. That's about all that's wrong with them. They do too much? They do one thing, and one thing only: Keep the target warp scrambled. They don't have much dps. They don't have any drones. They aren't fast at all. They are also really expensive. Doing poor comparisons, like those with recons, you might say that a ship that's worth 100+ mil should damn well be able to lock down a ship carrying any amount of WCS. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting

Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:06:00 - [71] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 17/05/2008 18:15:53 Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 17/05/2008 18:15:39 Originally by: Vyktor Abyss I just want to point out that not everyone has the luxury of a scout. 99% of the time you'd really need a 2nd account for a scout - I can't be arsed with that. Buy a shuttle at a station, fly it through, come back and fly your real ship through. Shuttles are cheap as hell, and they align real fast. Doesn't work in 0.0 - not enough stations - but in most of low-sec it's functional. Originally by: Wet Ferret Correct me if I'm wrong, but: HICs take much less training than recons HICs can do, with one slot, the job of many, many modules (100?) The penalty for using the focused script, that is supposed to prevent remote assistance, does not apply when the module is inactive allowing remote sensor boosting, further reducing the need for the HIC pilot to "fit for the job" I fully understand the need there was for a cap ship counter, especially in low-sec where bubbles were impossible. I simply cannot appreciate the ease of use of such a powerful ship in general, however. They do not need to lock fast to lock cap ships, and shouldn't be able to receive remote assistance with the script loaded. IMO they do too much for not needing to compromise their own fittings whatsoever. That's about all that's wrong with them. 1) You're wrong, HICs actually take a bit more training than recons(recons are 4 ranks to 5 plus 4 ranks to 4, as compared to 6 ranks to 5 for HICs). 2) Against most ships, you're just using a cap-intense version of a normal warp disruptor, with a bit of extra range. Warp stabbers(inbuilt or modules) are pretty rare. And besides, given that no ship can have more than 8 stabs on, it is at most the work of 9 modules, even if you want to make that argument. 3) Granted - although that's a function of the module, not the script - but gangs helping each other out is a feature, not a bug.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:51:00 - [72] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 11:01:50 Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 û and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need û it's also nigh-impossible to find on the market). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster û giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s. I agree that the Crane specifically deserves a tad more powergrid, but a 3% PG implant will fix the problem in the meanwhile. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
The0 Minmatar 99 Problems.	Posted - 2008.05.17 18:59:00 - [73] Originally by: Winterblink c) bring friends Bad blobby bad!
Thorradin State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 17/05/2008 11:01:50 Originally by: Malcanis What do you mean? You can fit a blockade runner with a MWD, and very fast they are too. I'm not sure what you mean by "slower then with an AB". Are you fitting a 1Mn MWD to a blockade runner or something? I said "some". Go take a look at the Crane, for instance. With all skills maxed out, it has a PG of 150 û and with one exception, 150 PG is also what all 10MN warpdrives require to run (the one exception "only" sets you back 135, which leaves very little to fit everything else you need û it's also nigh-impossible to find on the market). So yes, in this case, you have to choose between either a 10MN AB, or a 1MN MWD. Naturally, the AB is faster û giving you a less-than-stellar top speed of 850m/s. There are mods and skills that increase powergrid on a ship, and lower powergrid some mods use.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:50:00 - [75] I got an idea. Nerf the point strength by 99% in focused mode. Done!
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:52:00 - [76] Originally by: HarderThisTime I got an idea. Nerf the point strength by 99% in focused mode. Done! In other words, turn it into a Warp Disruptor II with slightly extended range... ... ... No.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 19:56:00 - [77] Originally by: Avoheja Originally by: HarderThisTime I got an idea. Nerf the point strength by 99% in focused mode. Done! In other words, make it balanced... ... ... No. Yes! I like it. Thanks for asking!
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:00:00 - [78] Edited by: Avoheja on 17/05/2008 20:01:04 Paying a total of 120M ISK for a ship to be able to use a T2 warp disruptor isn't 'balanced'. EDIT: In fact, I don't know why I'm even looking at this thread anymore... you've already been proven to be an idiot. I'll leave this to the next wave of forum warriors - I've other word wars to fight.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:05:00 - [79] Originally by: Avoheja Edited by: Avoheja on 17/05/2008 20:01:04 Paying a total of 120M ISK for a ship to be able to use a T2 warp disruptor isn't 'balanced'. EDIT: In fact, I don't know why I'm even looking at this thread anymore... you've already been proven to be an idiot. I'll leave this to the next wave of forum warriors - I've other word wars to fight. A HAC that can take the place of an interdictor or a recon needs an infinite point 30km scrambler to be worth 120m and/or fill a useful role? No bias there.
Gwendion Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:09:00 - [80] How about people learn how to counter them? Everyone is bringing up the Crane. (Rare mind you, ive seen maybe 5 in the last year, so.. yeah) Thats a moot point. If you cant work with a crane, dont fly it? Hmmm. Here are some ways to counter ANY scraming. Doesnt matter if its 1 point or 100. * MWD. Jet back to the gate. Unless there are multiple webbers with 0 lag, you'll have a good chance to get back there. * Scout. Multiple account or single, or yourself. * Cloak. As soon as you jump, and see the gate camp, Cloak up. Its more difficult than you think to uncloak someone. ALign while cloaked, Drop cloak, warp. This always works if your not uncloaked before you can align. Also, align to the nearest celestial, not another gate, warp in at 100, then instantly warp somewhere else as soon as your out of warp, close in-line, and do this once or twice, then get out. * Energy Neuts. I'll give you a little secret here, most Hictors arent setup for perma bubbling/scramming. Even small ones will do the job. * Don't go into low-sec? * Fit a tank, and get out of range. Hictors cant use AB/MWD/anything when using it. Theyre pretty much stuck there. Stop complaining, most of you dont even fly with a WCS anyhow, 6 extra km range is nothing. I can still tackle your WCS ass with an arazu at omg, 48km range with 6 points!?? NERF THE ARAZU! Or 12 Points at 18km. Did I mention I can use an MWD and keep up with your slow asses? Hictor cant... Please, just because it makes it easier, doesn't mean its overpowered. The ability was there LONG BEFORE HICTORS EVER CAME INTO PLAY. Hictors are a lazy man's tackler. Its weak, its pathetic, and to properly do its job, Hictors need to be using a bubble, or tackling a Carrier. Otherwise, there are better ships for the job Period. Dont act like this is some new improved omgiwinbutton, its nothing new, the abilities have always been there. Just because YOU didnt notice before, doesnt make it not so.

Havohej The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:12:00 - [81] Originally by: HarderThisTime Edited by: HarderThisTime on 17/05/2008 20:08:33 Originally by: Avoheja Edited by: Avoheja on 17/05/2008 20:01:04 Paying a total of 120M ISK for a ship to be able to use a T2 warp disruptor isn't 'balanced'. A HAC that can take the place of an interdictor or a recon needs an infinite point 30km scrambler to be worth 120m and/or fill a useful role? No bias there. Originally by: Avoheja EDIT: In fact, I don't know why I'm even looking at this thread anymore... you've already been proven to be an idiot. Troll. A HAC does a hell of a lot more DPS than a HIC and has a LOT less tank. Enough tank for lowsec gate guns, if it's not nano-fitted, sure, but still - apples and oranges. I agree with Avoheja - you're in idiot. Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:26:00 - [82] Originally by: Havohej A HAC does a hell of a lot more DPS than a HIC and has a LOT less tank. Enough tank for lowsec gate guns, if it's not nano-fitted, sure, but still - apples and oranges. Its a heavy cruiser. A cruiser with uuuber resists, an extra damage mod. Its a different flavor of HAC. Originally by: Havohej I agree with Avoheja - you're in idiot. Troll.
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:34:00 - [83] And we wonder why lowsec is so empty...? This thread tells much. ("We want more people in lowsec, but we don't want to nerf the big reason people don't go there!")
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:36:00 - [84] Originally by: Morcam And we wonder why lowsec is so empty...? This thread tells much. ("We want more people in lowsec, but we don't want to nerf the big reason people don't go there!") People stayed out of lowsec before HICs. Nothing has actually changed. The people who went into lowsec before had their reasons for doing so and those reasons are all still in place.
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Avoheja Originally by: Morcam And we wonder why lowsec is so empty...? This thread tells much. ("We want more people in lowsec, but we don't want to nerf the big reason people don't go there!") People stayed out of lowsec before HICs. Nothing has actually changed. The people who went into lowsec before had their reasons for doing so and those reasons are all still in place. I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... Also, in case you haven't noticed, the new players we get every day are not going into lowsec, partly because of the glorious HIC. I have nothing against the idea of the HIC, I just don't think it should be infinipoint in lowsec on every ship (as in, just on caps). It renders warp stabs and warp disruptors/warp scrams useless.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:53:00 - [86] Edited by: Ki An on 17/05/2008 20:53:10 Originally by: Morcam I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... Learn to reading comprehension! He said, nothing has changed, as people wheren't going into low sec before HICs either. There is no difference between now and then. Then you have the fact that a gallente recon can do the same job as a HIC. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Gwendion Gallente No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.05.17 20:56:00 - [87] Originally by: Ki An Learn to reading comprehension! He said, nothing has changed, as people wheren't going into low sec before HICs either. There is no difference between now and then. Then you have the fact that a gallente recon can do the same job as a HIC. Not just the same job, but better. Damage + Speed. Hictors CANT keep up with you, an arazu can, and at better ranges.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:10:00 - [88] Thanks... 'cause if I had to actually reply to that one myself, my head would've exploded.
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:11:00 - [89] Edited by: Morcam on 17/05/2008 21:13:16 Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 17/05/2008 20:53:10 Originally by: Morcam I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... Learn to reading comprehension! He said, nothing has changed, as people wheren't going into low sec before HICs either. There is no difference between now and then. Then you have the fact that a gallente recon can do the same job as a HIC. Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways.
Spaztick	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:31:00 - [90] HICs are fine, learn to play. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.

Batolemaeus Caldari Batolemaeus Corp	Posted - 2008.05.17 21:49:00 - [91] Originally by: Tippia Go take a look at the Crane [Crane, New Setup 1] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Ancillary Current Router I ? I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners.
Avoheja Caldari The Venture Co.	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:00:00 - [92] Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: Tippia Go take a look at the Crane [Crane, New Setup 1] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Ancillary Current Router I ? I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners. /thread
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:27:00 - [93] Edited by: Siege on 17/05/2008 22:30:24 Originally by: Morcam Edited by: Morcam on 17/05/2008 21:13:16 Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 17/05/2008 20:53:10 Originally by: Morcam I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... Learn to reading comprehension! He said, nothing has changed, as people wheren't going into low sec before HICs either. There is no difference between now and then. Then you have the fact that a gallente recon can do the same job as a HIC. Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Given that he had only single WCS fitted, the HIC wasn't the issue there. I don't know an Arazu or Lachesis pilot in existance that doesn't fit at least 2 points scram at better than 30km. As mentioned, a 4 point fit is pretty easy to accomplish at those ranges as well, which will stop all but the most stab-happy gimped fits. Heck, it's not like it's hard to fit two points to quite a lot of ships out there. I use a dual scram hurricane all the time, catches all those 1-stab guys who think they are suddenly immune. Makes me giggle. ------ begin signature ----- Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:29:00 - [94] Originally by: Batolemaeus I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners. Using rigs… which gives the "biggest cargo" award to the Prowler.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:38:00 - [95] Originally by: Avoheja People stayed out of lowsec before HICs. Nothing has actually changed. The people who went into lowsec before had their reasons for doing so and those reasons are all still in place. Uh, yes people did. You could get through lowsec gatecamps with a nimble ship with a wcs or two, unless you got caught with too many points. Now its one ship, and you have to prepare for that one ship, cause they are everywhere now. There really is no point to a wcs anymore.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:42:00 - [96] HICs are broken, and their pilots should stop abusing easy mode.
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.05.17 22:51:00 - [97] Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate.
Batolemaeus Caldari Batolemaeus Corp	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:04:00 - [98] Originally by: Tippia Using rigs… which gives the "biggest cargo" award to the Prowler. That's not the point. I would fit a Prowler with 2x inertia in the lows and two polys or one poly and a hyperspatial vel. optimizer, not with cargorigs. The Crane has the highest base cargo of all blockaderunners, and while comparing them i always asume a fit for best survivability.
Rose Nuke State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:10:00 - [99] it did hurt the blockade runners alot though they need to be changed cause a hic locks quick= pointless blockade runner
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.05.17 23:16:00 - [100] Originally by: Batolemaeus That's not the point. I would fit a Prowler with 2x inertia in the lows and two polys or one poly and a hyperspatial vel. optimizer, not with cargorigs. The Crane has the highest base cargo of all blockaderunners, and while comparing them i always asume a fit for best survivability. …well, my (admittedly nitpicking) point was that you can't both claim MWD capability and best cargo. Just as you can rig the Crane to overcome its PG weakness, you can mod the other BRs to overcome theirs (such as having slightly less cargo).

Vyktor Abyss EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.05.18 01:25:00 - [101] Well this topic certainly got further than it should.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.05.18 01:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Forge Lag Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate. That's the interesting part. The WCS already had a counter, and were nerfed anyway because they were being abused by too many pilots as a get out of jail free card in combat (see also: the future of nanos). Nerfed to the point where (almost) nobody used them anymore except on travel fits. And then they introduced the gallente recons, which added a lot more risk to using them for even simple travel fits. So, wow, we can totally gimp our fitting (speed and tank) for a small chance at getting through a gatecamp assuming they don't have a sensor boosted recon? SWEET! But seriously, did they need another, even better counter? Hell no. The most common answer to HICs worries me more than anything. "Fit an MWD and burn back to the gate" "Fit an MWD and burn out of the HIC's range" "Fit an MWD" "Fit an MWD" "Fit an MWD". Fit an MWD... answer to everything nowadays But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 04:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: James Lyrus The other blockade runners don't have this issue. Therefore the problem is the Crane, not Blockade runners. Well, the Prowler can be a pretty tight fit as well, but I supposed that depends on whether you want to tank it or not (admittedly, one of the main points of the BRs is that you're supposed to run instead). specious! the prowler has no need for mwd because the prowler is made of win even without it Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 07:10:00 - [104] Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.18 11:58:00 - [105] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Ok MWD. (early morning not feeling like writing much)
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 12:30:00 - [106] Originally by: Morcam Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Ok MWD. (early morning not feeling like writing much) Bolded the important parts for you. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.18 13:49:00 - [107] Originally by: Forge Lag Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate. /signed. WCS is now a completly usless module. +2 Stab bonus for Blockade runners is also now completely usless. HICS are not over powered, the infinipoint focused script on a fast locking HIC, however, is. I can't belive CCP put into a game built around counters, checks and balances, a SINGLE MODULE THAT HAS * INFINITE POWER . Originally by:* Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.05.18 14:01:00 - [108] Originally by: Kolwrath Originally by: Forge Lag Originally by: HarderThisTime There really is no point to a wcs anymore. This is the point. If it would not be EvE the devs would simply remove the module and be done. Instead of removing stuff they added options. You and me may not agree but it is ment to be ultimate. /signed. WCS is now a completly usless module. +2 Stab bonus for Blockade runners is also now completely usless. HICS are not over powered, the infinipoint focused script on a fast locking HIC, however, is. I can't belive CCP put into a game built around counters, checks and balances, a SINGLE MODULE THAT HAS * INFINITE POWER *. I hear it's powerlevel is over 9000! But I have to agree, as someone big on Rocks, I have to say that scissors are fine, but paper's just blatently overpowered. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:04:00 - [109] Am I the only one here that hauls in lowsec using a well-fitted iteron III? I mean, I would use a blockade runner, but still haven't got enough skill, so using an iteron in the meanwhile. Met my share of gatecamps, and passed them. I don't know if they had HICs in them because my fitting didn't give them a chance to lock me. Granted, the powergrid of crane looks like any other blockade runner is much better. Also, I would say that the fact that the HIC makes completely useless fitting the WCS seems slightly unbalanced, but really, if you can't pass a lowsec camp without WCS you have to rethink your hauler's fitting.
Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.05.18 17:38:00 - [110] Edited by: Kolwrath on 18/05/2008 17:52:08 Edited by: Kolwrath on 18/05/2008 17:38:47 Originally by: James Lyrus But I have to agree, as someone big on Rocks, I have to say that scissors are fine, but paper's just blatently overpowered. Well to use your rock paper scissors analogy (which you seem oh so very fond of) essentialu we have a rock that can beat both scissors and paper. Doesn't seem right to me. BTW: I hate trolls ... /me looks in James Lyrus's direction. Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!

Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.18 20:31:00 - [111] Edited by: Morcam on 18/05/2008 20:32:50 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Read the entire post. And since you obviously have perfect reading COMPREHENSION (just don't do it) I'm not entirely sure why you think the gallente recon can do the same job. Recons can be countered by warp stabs, HIC's can't. EDIT: and while I'm at it, why do the ebil piwate gatecamps need speed? Web + 30km scram means you aren't going anywhere fast anyways. Please counter this with warp stabs: Lachesis - Gallente Combat Recon Highs: 3xHeavy launcher II, 2xdual 150mm rail II Mids: 5xWarp scrambler II, 2xsensor booster II Lows: EANM II, DCU II, Explosive Hardener II Ok MWD. (early morning not feeling like writing much) Bolded the important parts for you. As I'm now awake... Why the heck would I counter that particular setup with warp stabs? Since we're going to do this crap, please try countering 8 Overheated Stasis Webifier 2's, while still going over 5km/s. Asking irrelevant trolling questions isn't going to get you any answers. And yes, recons can be countered by Warp Stabs, just not that particular setup.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:50:00 - [112] Originally by: Morcam Why the heck would I counter that particular setup with warp stabs? Since we're going to do this crap, please try countering 8 Overheated Stasis Webifier 2's, while still going over 5km/s. Asking irrelevant trolling questions isn't going to get you any answers. And yes, recons can be countered by Warp Stabs, just not that particular setup. Well, in that case, HICs can be countered by warp stabs, just not when they are fitting the disruptor script thingie. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Morcam	Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 - [113] Edited by: Morcam on 18/05/2008 22:00:24 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Morcam Why the heck would I counter that particular setup with warp stabs? Since we're going to do this crap, please try countering 8 Overheated Stasis Webifier 2's, while still going over 5km/s. Asking irrelevant trolling questions isn't going to get you any answers. And yes, recons can be countered by Warp Stabs, just not that particular setup. HIC's can be countered if they don't fit anything! Oh so very clever...
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:12:00 - [114] Edited by: Ki An on 18/05/2008 22:12:07 Originally by: Morcam Quote: HIC's can be countered if they don't fit anything! Oh so very clever... About as clever as you pointing out WCS can counter a gallente recon if they don't fit what they should. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Securion Wolfheart Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:12:00 - [115] People please... this is WoW in space, press some buttons and call it "PvP"... go get laid. The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns...
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.18 22:42:00 - [116] wow, not locked yet. ok let me state some very very good ideas to deal with these ebil hics. 1.....USE A SCOUT 2. use a scout 3. scout 4. use (in reference to 3 and 5) 5. it (see 3) 6. check map for ship kills 7. stay out of low sec... mkay 8. if all fails, quit eve, and play wow. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
HarderThisTime	Posted - 2008.05.18 23:44:00 - [117] Sup guys. Holy crap this thread is still alive. So much grasping for some kind of ridiculous justification for 30km infinipoint its so cute.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.05.19 00:20:00 - [118] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 19/05/2008 00:22:55 Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: Tippia Go take a look at the Crane [Crane, New Setup 1] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Ancillary Current Router I ? I have used it so often, carrying a total of over 4-5b in it..the rigs are peanuts. Enjoy the biggest cargo of all blockaderunners. While not a superior tanker (though as people point out, if you're tanking solo in a Transport, you're dead anyway), this is more cargo, more agility, and no need for a PG enhancer to fit an MWD II. [Viator] Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Expanded Cargohold II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Improved Cloaking Device II Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Funny part is I've used a character skilled in Caldari Transports and not Gallente Transports for this comparison, so in actual fact the Viator is far superior, thanks to it not needing a PG expander, which is my biggest beef about the Crane. Improve Market Competition!
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2008.05.19 01:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Morcam I suppose you don't count the 30km instalocking infinipoint, which happens to be the whole point of this thread... You lose all credibility the moment you use the word instalocking. Everything not warping fast enough not to be locked in time can likely be fitted to tank enough to make it back to the gate if caught by a solo HIC, save off course, T1 industrial, that are supposed to be vulnerable to warship. If you get caught in a huge camp well you die, like you always did. People using HIC now used Lachesis with 3 scrams before, HIC changed nothing wrt the balance of stabs, just made the supercap tackleable.
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2008.05.19 05:28:00 - [120] Edited by: Caius Sivaris on 19/05/2008 05:42:36 Originally by: HarderThisTime Now its one ship, and you have to prepare for that one ship, cause they are everywhere now. There really is no point to a wcs anymore. WCS still protects you from the ships that lock faster than a HIC yet can't pack an infinipoint. Some smart pies use a remote repaired assault frigate to tackle, likely with added sensor linking, you need stabs to escape them in about everything than a shuttle and an interceptor. A Sigil with 3 inertia stabilizers and 2 WCS is what I would fly if I flew T1 industrial in harm's way. Originally by: Space Wanderer Am I the only one here that hauls in lowsec using a well-fitted iteron III? I mean, I would use a blockade runner, but still haven't got enough skill, so using an iteron in the meanwhile. Met my share of gatecamps, and passed them. I don't know if they had HICs in them because my fitting didn't give them a chance to lock me. Congrats, you won EVE. What the morons calling for HIC nerf don't understand is that they should not be locked in the first place. There are no practical HIC setup with mwd, web and more than one sensor booster. That means either tackling ability will suck (sacrificing either of mwd or web) or lock time will suck (only one sensor booster). So either you run out of disruptor range or you warped before being locked. You can also run to gate tanking the HIC, they aren't exactly DPS powerhouse... That's assuming you have a decently fitted ship obviously. Why people expect an Iteron III with 3 Warp Core Stabilizer I to be safe from 120 millions in gear and months of training is a bit over my head. Remote sensor boosting changes the equation quite a bit but then than means big camp and those always caught everything but shuttles and inties. I'm a blockade runner pilot and don't especially fear HIC. Quote: Granted, the powergrid of crane looks like any other blockade runner is much better. The Crane also starts the most agile of all (lol Caldari ship most agile of its category) so can sacrifice a low slot for a PDS/RCU and still get in warp very fast. "The Crane can't fit MWD omg CCP fix it!" yet all the one you will find in the wild will have one, yes they'll have a fitting mod/rig, so what...

Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:06:00 - [121] i just had a thought cross my mind, if flogging a wet cat, well never mind... yay 30km bubbles! Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.05.19 06:36:00 - [122] there's also the option of an ecm burst to break his lock. if you're already aligned and at speed you will insta warp -


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