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new missions rewards ... not worth it?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Artassaut Oblivion Amalgamated Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.05.24 10:40:00 - [91] Quote: If FW gave out nothing but LP, and it gave out faction frigates and cruisers then it wouldn't be a cash cow because these ships would be so common that they wouldn't sell for much... then again you don't want to over the guys building tech 1 ships... Simple fix, make the Faction ship require the T1 base as a trade plus the LP. ---- Space for rent!
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2008.05.24 11:47:00 - [92] Originally by: Tyrantus Originally by: Guldari Nokulman I'm more than a little confused by the "it to promote PVP that costs isk" stance. You can already very easily go and do no reward PVP in low sec, and look how popular that is... Before FW low sec only lost you isk. Now with FW it will let you fight over hardcoded fps style objectives that give you tons of tags and faction standing towards your faction of choice. Missions? Dunno about them tbh. Have you tryed loting the "tons of tags" in the encounter complex (I see you have already discounted the possibility of running after the missions)? As you need to stay in range of the control point all the time you will not gather the loot for 10-20 minutes, then you can add the nice time sink of gatehring the tag. Don't seem exactly functional.
GreatKroma	Posted - 2008.05.24 12:28:00 - [93] Quick pointer regarding the missions and the atm seemingly non existent intelligence/ communication channels. If these missions are intended to stimulate conflict between the militias and create more pvp opportunities then these must be intrinsically linked to some form of communication or intelligence scheme. for example... an interface that shows mothermoon has just recieved a mission and is looking for milita support... join.. mothermoon accepts the join request.. and u have a gang.... because atm... with just a pseudo alliance channel there will be no coordination.. no strategy and no tactics which will mean that only player groups like corporations that have enlisted, who already have their own strategic options in place (voice comms forums mailing list etc) will be capable of fighting the FW wars with considerable effectiveness. There should be something in place to allow the militias to coordinate tactics.. (screw spammers and alt spies give us some means of communication!) i dont see why it should not be integrated into an improved mission system. that actually brings rewards to assigned missions (i.e capturing a system faster) to dissuade people from just farming the systems themselves without getting involved in the missions. As mentioned earlier some sort of rewards system(that doesnt affect pvp) but still has tangible rewards (perhaps within logistical financial areas). thanks for ur time
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.24 15:24:00 - [94] FW as it is now is a complete farce tbh - shiny ranks and nice words like "creating scenarios for small scale pvp warfare outside the blob" which may make great marketing but game mechanic wise, you are doing nothing new just making 4 npc corps that are at war with each other and adding a bunch of structures that detect presence of players within 30 kilometres for control points. Its still the same low sec. Its still the same mechanics of blob, cyno bomb, nano, cloak. There is nothing new added to motivate people to take part in this apart from unconsequential badges/ranks, because it was too much effort balancing a new resource injection/isk sink while at it right? The whole idea of "dangerous" missions into enemy territory to be ran in pvp fittings with a gang backing you up is interesting but again you put 0 thought in it and just created missions that are identical to old ones (spawn X cruiers Y battleships) - and made the beacon appear on overview. You even kept the same stupid system to balance LP rewards that already failed to work for level 5 missions - because god forbid you would spend time balancing the new content you create, lets have the computer take care of that instead right? - Gob
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:32:00 - [95] Originally by: Artassaut Quote: If FW gave out nothing but LP, and it gave out faction frigates and cruisers then it wouldn't be a cash cow because these ships would be so common that they wouldn't sell for much... then again you don't want to over the guys building tech 1 ships... Simple fix, make the Faction ship require the T1 base as a trade plus the LP. you my friend, are amazing. thank you :)
Tyrantus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.05.24 18:39:00 - [96] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Artassaut Quote: If FW gave out nothing but LP, and it gave out faction frigates and cruisers then it wouldn't be a cash cow because these ships would be so common that they wouldn't sell for much... then again you don't want to over the guys building tech 1 ships... Simple fix, make the Faction ship require the T1 base as a trade plus the LP. you my friend, are amazing. thank you :) That solution works for me. Navy faction ships should have always been on the common side with the much much harder to get Pirate faction ships the big isk makers. Future Member Of The 24th Imperial
Nuyan Zahedi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris	Posted - 2008.05.25 10:04:00 - [97] Originally by: CCP Gangleri Joining the militia will hamper your ability to get isk through conventional means, just like any war will. If you want to go and run lvl4 missions in high sec then you can easily do that, if a war target comes after you then your navy buddies will probably be there to help you out. The factional warfare missions and rewards themselves are not going to be very high compared to regular missions, but they are a form of "professional PvP" beacause the missions are intentionally focused on creating PvP situations and the agent rewards you for completing the mission. .. What? I was hoping Factional Warfare would do something with the currently fundamentally flawed Risk vs Reward in EVE. I mean, Risk vs Reward is everything in a game like EVE. If you do a lvl 4 mission where you have 50+% chance to get your ship blown up, there should be a much bigger reward than in a lvl4 mission where you have close to zero risk. That should be pretty obvious. I don't know how big the rewards for FW missions should be, but even 300/400% higher probably isn't even that much of a magnet compared to the zero-risk lvl4 high-sec stuff. Even then the majority of people would continue to make more ISK with the old lvl4 missions. -- My blog
Qduhaf	Posted - 2008.05.25 15:40:00 - [98] I still think that instanced missions would be more fun and drive people to do FW. Missions would require gangs from both sides to accept, one side would have an offensive mission, the other defensive, points for shiptypes would require strategic thinking about gang set-up and you be ensured that the resultant PVP would be fun for both parties. I know that the hardcore EVE players are opposed, but if youhave to "live" on EVE to have fun then it really isn't much of a game now is it. As it has been said already there is really nothing that been added to FW that is really any different than what exists today, except that the missions are going to be a lot harder to complete. In the short term you will have some that try and the pirates/griefers will love it. 1 month later, CCP will be asking why no one cares abouth FW, and lowsec is empty again. They have to realize that at lest 2/3 of EVE are casual players and the 1/3 that aren't are already provided for.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.25 16:26:00 - [99] oh you poor soul... ever wonder why you don't see many pirate gangs in 0.0 space? there's a reason.
Vim Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.25 16:46:00 - [100] The reason being that everyone and their mother comes running to drive them off? Or that you can usualy just warp to pos, wait for hunter to go away, return to ratting just where you left off(Unlike missions, time bonous, wrecks despawning, travel several gates... timesink to have to redo) And ofc, everyone is bothering about keeping the small enemy away because, theres riches to be found on a personal level. Beacon in space where you are=theres only one belt in any system=>Warp to, scram, pewpew. fw missions/lowsec atm >>> 0.0 risk for the least risk vs reward output anywhere.
Qduhaf	Posted - 2008.05.25 20:42:00 - [101] Originally by: MotherMoon oh you poor soul... ever wonder why you don't see many pirate gangs in 0.0 space? there's a reason. yes controll of 0.0 offers the corp/alliance moon mining, lots of isk with little time commitment. and to individuals it offers the best ratting and mising that you are invested to defend. FW offers you...... Ranks and a promise of PVP that will turn out to be hollow. Change the rewards to match the risk, or change the mechanics to make it better.
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.05.26 00:47:00 - [102] Originally by: Marlenus Edited by: Marlenus on 21/05/2008 22:13:14 The first mission I got offered was a 16-jump affair, for a level one mission offering 25LP. I understand that the rewards will go up once the system is populated with completion-time data. But I'm having a hard time imagining them ever going up so high as to make a 32-jump round trip FUN. There seems to be a fun-factor problem with the FW mission designs. Travel is boring ... yes it may get punctuated by combat excitements, but the rest of the time, it's still boring. Just my two ISK. Edit: I declined the mission. lol that¿s under 1 lp per jump XD ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Guns nButter The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.26 08:27:00 - [103] i think ccp needs to adjust the rewards to be HIGHER than average when they first implement this system on TQ, so that LOTS of people will flock to do them, thus populating the system with data QUICKLY and reducing the rewards to averages QUICKLY. i don't think people would mind their rewards going down slightly as compared to having them extremely low for a long time >.>
Siona Windweaver	Posted - 2008.05.26 09:01:00 - [104] Honestly, if you have to go back to high sec and do some missions to make more isk for FW (or any other PvP activity since they arent so much different as far as i can see), FW will suffer from the same symptoms as Low Sec. Not that low sec is bad, its just that low sec is more intimidating to average high sec player, which also seems to be the target of next expension, ironicly. Rewards should be on par (or higher) with high sec missions, perhaps should be more profitable then current L4 missions. Only then people will be convinced to try it out and decide if they love it or not. If they like PvP, fine, they can do occasional PvP missions and continue their carrier as PvPers. PvP should be the goal, not reward, as long as it remains as a "reward", it wont be embraced by high sec dwellers, which again, is the target audience for this expension.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.26 21:17:00 - [105] new details up, faction cruisers will cost 90k LP FW missions give out 25 lp do the math :/ and lets say it auto balances to... 200 lp! still do the math. Nah I'll do it for you guys :) 450 missions times 30 1350 jumps for a basic faction cruiser if LP is raised.
Vibora BR	Posted - 2008.05.27 03:27:00 - [106] Edited by: Vibora BR on 27/05/2008 03:27:20 Originally by: Siona Windweaver .... Rewards should be on par (or higher) with high sec missions, perhaps should be more profitable then current L4 missions. Only then people will be convinced to try it out and decide if they love it or not. If they like PvP, fine, they can do occasional PvP missions and continue their carrier as PvPers. ... Reward needs to be balanced with risk. If in a L4 mission with very low risk you can make 10M+ in 1 hour (including looting and salvaging). In a FW mission that is 30 times more dangerous and time consuming (30 jumps) the reward needs to be compatible, maybe not 30 times higher but at least 20 or 15. But imagine do it for less than a L4 mission reward In the way it is you will spend like 10 BattleCruisers and 5 BattleShips in FW missions before you get near to earn LPs enough to a Faction Cruiser (That isn't that good). It is not funny or even deserves the effort.
Oakrayven Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.05.27 04:23:00 - [107] Ive come to the conclusion that CCP is the initials in their native language for Mindbogelingly Stupid Idiots Seriously. they have been doing this for how many years now? they say they want more PvP to happen. . . So they develop Faction Warfare. . . so in theory at least every time you undock to participate you have a 50% chance of loseing your ship your modules, your guns and your implants. . . but in order for faction warfare to happen you have to . . . Run missions that are longer (jumpwise) than any other missions with time constraints that are tighter than any current mission out their in low sec systems that will probably be stocked with members from hostile factions ready and willing to blow you to hell useing the same Penalise the HELL out of you for failing mission system with mission payouts that make Q -18 mission agents that hate you and you have 3 cha the liveing definition of monty haul by comparison. Seriously did you guys even stop to think why Level 5s are a total failure now? and your bright idea was to create EVEN HARDER, LONGER, MORE TIME RESTRICTED MISSIONS, INCREASE THE RISK OF BEING HUNTED DOWN IN YOUR MISSION SYSTEM, PAINT A PERMINENT "WARDECK" ON THE PARTICIPANTS, AND GIVE WORSE PAYOUTS? GET A ***** CLUE! YOU CLAIM YOU WANT MORE P V P TO HAPPEN, HERE IS A NEWS FLASH, YOU HAVE TO PUT MORE ISK-SHIPS-MODULES-RIGS-WEAPONS-IMPLANTS-AMMO IN THE PLAYERS HANDS, WHY? PVP HAS A HABIT OF GETTING THOES THINGS BLOWN TO HELL, AND THE MORE PVP THAT HAPPENS THE MORE OF THOES YOU HAVE TO PUT INTO THE !@#$ GAME TO REPLACE ALL THE LOSSES THAT HAPPEN IN PVP. ********************************************* Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend. If your too paranoid to play EVE. . . [right]Then your not Paranoid
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.27 09:42:00 - [108] easy on the caps mate CCP play this game too. I just don't think they are realising how offen ships will be lost :) I mean they have one point tech one cruiser are cheap cheap cheap and with insurance I could lose most likely around 400 of them with my current isk. But at the same time, minus your caps, you have a point. We need more ships... maybe weaker than tech 1 cruisers and frigates sold in the LP store? tech 0?
Zantei	Posted - 2008.05.27 09:51:00 - [109] I'd still make more money ratting in 0.0, no? I'd still get more PVP in 0.0, no? I haven't really been paying attention to this FW stuff. :[
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.05.27 10:33:00 - [110] Ah, CCP does realize. They have all the numbers about L5. They want us to lose ships and trash our standings. They want us to lose stuff because losing stuff is grease in the EvE machine. They just treat us as bigger losers and idiots than we can ever be. On a related note they think people will play for nothing but FUN. It does not work that way in EvE, sadly. Though we will make good fun out of the Steam kiddies before they leave drained and with worthless characters. Also there is some legacy design paradigm that lowsec makes safe PvP playground. Lowsec is where the law protects the gankers. I rather go solo into nullsec any day - safer, more money, better feel, no harm to my everyday highsec life.
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.05.27 10:47:00 - [111] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans Ambush is when they're lying in wait for you, having arrived previously. Since the beacon only pops up when you initiate warp to it, then, in order for them to be lying in wait at the entry gate, they have to have: Spotted the beacon, decided to engage, initiated warp and managed to arrive at the beacon before you do. Interceptors might be able to manage it, but a battleship isn't likely to. So if you arrive first and get through a shipsize-restricted gate, then they either have to ignore you, or use appropriate sized ships to follow. That's not an ambush though. If that inty arrives at the gate before you he will have to keep you scrammed max 20 seconds, until his battleship buddies arrive. I assume you are aware that you can't use acceleration gate while warp scrammed ? It's relatively easy to get inties going at ~20 au/s in warp, allowing them in most cases to arrive at location approx 1 second earlier, or at same time as you do (over distances where you can arrive at your max warp speed and stay there few seconds). And I happen to have also question about auto balance system. Does this mean, that caps on maximum rewards will be removed ? Bcos if not then no amount of scaling will help you, as mission rewards just hit the cap and be still utter crap.
War Fairy	Posted - 2008.05.27 15:53:00 - [112] Simple solution: Have the militia store sell cheap but good items for VP. For example the Republic Militia Autocannon. Make them the same or better than existing high metalevel items. Make them cheaper than existing high metalevel items. Make them only usable by militia members. Done. FW is now self sustaining.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.05.27 17:56:00 - [113] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Kathryn Dougans Ambush is when they're lying in wait for you, having arrived previously. Since the beacon only pops up when you initiate warp to it, then, in order for them to be lying in wait at the entry gate, they have to have: Spotted the beacon, decided to engage, initiated warp and managed to arrive at the beacon before you do. Interceptors might be able to manage it, but a battleship isn't likely to. So if you arrive first and get through a shipsize-restricted gate, then they either have to ignore you, or use appropriate sized ships to follow. That's not an ambush though. If that inty arrives at the gate before you he will have to keep you scrammed max 20 seconds, until his battleship buddies arrive. I assume you are aware that you can't use acceleration gate while warp scrammed ? It's relatively easy to get inties going at ~20 au/s in warp, allowing them in most cases to arrive at location approx 1 second earlier, or at same time as you do (over distances where you can arrive at your max warp speed and stay there few seconds). Possible, but not too likely, especially with UI lag. Still, when opening up a site, I'd definitely align prior to warping in. It might also be worth warping to the nearest celestial / bm first to minimize warp time. The primary danger from MWD tacklers will be inside the site though. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:41:00 - [114]

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