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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Delilah Blackheart
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:15:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Shiasafri Edited by: Shiasafri on 24/05/2008 01:05:54
Originally by: Delilah Blackheart Does this mean that 30-day codes are no longer valid after June 15th, or just that they are no longer for sale once the 60-days are available?
That, Also...
Um, perhaps I should have worded my question a bit better, but which that are you referring to?
Just attempting to clarify whether all current 30-day codes will become worthless a mere 24 days from now.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:19:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 24/05/2008 01:19:10
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
> Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
> Why there is an inequality in pricing between different countries.
> Why, if you are going to follow Blizzards example, you have not put in place a similar pricing scheme to theirs of 14.99USD/12.99EURO/8.99GBP.
> Why the original news item and Wranglers post lacked any real information and avoided admitting an increase in price.
> Why you are following Blizzards example at all. I don't give money to CCP to enjoy the Blizzard experience, and many other companies are successfully doing business without being Blizzard.
> Why the latest news item announces 30d time cards on sale in Greece.
EDIT: When I say pricing scheme I do not expect you to match Blizzards prices, merely their example (which is now "industry standard") of setting separate and roughly equivalent prices for the three major currencies used by your subscribers.
total agreement
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:17:00 -
[543]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Hi, I'll be 40 in October. Wrangler works for me. (And he doesn't write many of the news items that get posted, he just posts them. He didn't write this one, for example. You're taking shots at the wrong guy in this case.)
Ive speculated in the past in many threads over the identity of the huge holographic grinning floating head I observed in the celing staring down at the CCP minions working away.
I was peeking out of air duct, just a foot away from its left ear.
It didnt seem to notice as I reached out and waved my hand through it to confirm it was indeed holographic in nature.
Reading this Ryan dudes post, and his humiliating admitance that he is the wranglers puppet master, I think I have neared the truth.
All my futre moans at CCP Wrangler, will refer to him as Ryan.
That is all
SKUNK
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:40:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Gojyu I love this week. New in eve: Battlegrounds Honour System Copying wow's gtc system
Way to buck the trend ccp
ok ok now I could argue for YEARS about the battlegrounds,.... but... honor system?
you mean LP? that has been in the game since day 1?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:41:00 -
[545]
Quote: > Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
he answered this
it's because they don't get all the money they lose money by selling timecards. you may pay 15 but CCP only gets 12$.
while with the billing system they get all 15$
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:44:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Kersh Marelor Edited by: Kersh Marelor on 24/05/2008 00:36:23
Originally by: CCP RyanD We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
Two things here. Are you trying to tell us that some players are negligible to you? Secondly will the 'enabling of more and more payment options' include removing GTCs all together? I can understand if you need to increase the price for the game, for a long time nothing changed with it and the market has changed. Just do it in a fair way without better deals for those of your community who happen to live in certain places of the planet. Also if you need to up the prices just say so and be decent enough to admit it.
Originally by: CCP RyanD We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.
Will those standards include changing Gallente into elves? We are NOT playing WoW, we are playing EVE. EVE is made by CCP, not Blizzard in case you haven't noticed. You want to set your own standards - that's what makes EVE special and so much better than other MMOs. Stick to it. Increse the prices, fine by me but leave us the options of paying for 60 and 90 days. I see your point about 30 days GTCs, but why 90 (apart from scamming us for money)? o.O
just going to make one simple point, how are they scamming us to get more money if you can pay 12$ a month by buying a year at a time still?
Also they won't get 35$ per card most likely they will now get 15$ a month form players using time cards, that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
also why are people thnking this will lead to elfs? blizzad makes other games too, it has nothing to do with the game they are billing.
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Mahke
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:58:00 -
[547]
Quote: that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
Why doesn't CCP just sell timecards DIRECTLY to players then. That way, theres no middleman. Either they directly charge us 35 and make 5 more bucks per 60 day timecard themselves, or charge us less and benefit from more demand as less gtc-users cancel their accounts (I don't know anyone who plans on cancelling their main because of this, but I DO know several people dropping alt accounts). |
Hasak Rain
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:17:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Kwa Kaine
Quote: That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
That's a fallacy and you know it.
You don't charge for expansions because if you did the game would die for the simple fact everyone would have to have the expansion to play the game due to the way it works. It's not like other mmo's where the expansions are just another instance and you can keep playing even if you don't upgrade to the shiny new expansion.
I agree and quite frankly, I wish they (and some players)would stop using the "free expansion" excuse every time something gets screwed up around here. The last MMO I played was DAOC and it had ZERO downtime where as EvE requires an hour a day. Not to mention that the expansions in EvE can be a little bit thin compared to other MMO's which you pay for. When i say "thin" I don't mean they aren't quality or good but they usually include chunks of content which exclude a segment of the player base. The upcoming expansion is a good example as alliances will not be allowed to participate in FW. People play the game in all different ways and the things in the expansions are many times things people will never use because either they can't or would hav e to change their play styles.
I personally did not get a whole lot out of Trinity since my graphics card can not run the new graphics content and i know I am not alone of this. Not to mention i still can't use "Heat" to this day since I haven't trained up the 2 weeks Energy Management 5 skill.
The guy I quoted is correct. if you started charging for the expansions, the game would probably go under. EvE Expansions which include new ships which all have different purposes does not = different classes/races in other games. EvE is designed differently than most other MMOs so the expansions aren't simply just "more of the same."
Another thing: I am not sure why people in this thread are asking the Devs if Elves are coming to EvE and other stupid WoW comparison type questions. It has nothing to do with this issue at all. You clowns think that you are so hardcore but you really need to step back and realize that CCP is a company like Blizzard and are in the same industry.
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Amar'u Deltmartuk
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:19:00 -
[549]
Originally by: skuko Edited by: skuko on 24/05/2008 01:13:50
EDIT: thanks for replying...i didn't want my first post to sound aggravating, i just don't like the idea of blizzard setting "standards". CCP has always gone its own way with EVE and as far as i can tell, stayed true to its beliefs, that is why i'm (politely said) confused with this statement...
Not exactly sure why CCP has to "buck the trend" (some other posts were whining about this too). They're not #1, so they have to look out for #1. I just recently read an article about Walmart vs. other retailers. Walmart, being the largest cheap bastards they are, effectively sets the industry trend in department store retail. When they say "jump" the other retailers do it, because it's called staying alive against the competition. In the MMO world, Blizzard (WoW) is Walmart, CCP (Eve) is Sears. Blizzard has 20 times more players than CCP (rough count, 8-10 mil vs 300-500k). If what CCP is doing doesn't make business sense, I don't know what does. Sure it feels painful, but that's life.
Now, the question regarding the in-game market isk-for-GTC trade which concerns me is will this upset the game dyanmics by essentially creating our own version of a liquidity crunch in the game markets? Since GTCs were responsible for moving liquidity around the game economy on the scale of 150-400mil isk per trade, my gut feeling tells me that having this market dropping out of the economy will be detrimental not only for slowing down the economy directly but also as the majority of people pointing out in this forum the massive decrease in alternate character creation and usage, which will also have negative ramifications to the in-game economy (in terms of player productivity, since, for example, a given physical player can no longer conduct multiparty interactions with their alts during the same time be it mining/fighting, intragalatic trading/courier, mining/industrial, etc). |
Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:27:00 -
[550]
ITT: Nerd rage against cheap ingame isk.
www.siigarikitawa.com |
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Mega Thong
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:41:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Mahke
Quote: that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
Why doesn't CCP just sell timecards DIRECTLY to players then. That way, theres no middleman. Either they directly charge us 35 and make 5 more bucks per 60 day timecard themselves, or charge us less and benefit from more demand as less gtc-users cancel their accounts (I don't know anyone who plans on cancelling their main because of this, but I DO know several people dropping alt accounts).
i never did understand why there was ever a need to go to a totally different website to get gametime for this one when CCP can just sell the codes to us.
or is this another "Market Trend set by Blizzard" that CCP are following
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:05:00 -
[552]
What? CCP is running a business and thinking about profit? I'd nevar.
Black Hand.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:13:00 -
[553]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Quote: > Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
he answered this
it's because they don't get all the money they lose money by selling timecards. you may pay 15 but CCP only gets 12$.
while with the billing system they get all 15$
US billing $15 = $15 European Billing Ç15 = $23.7
I can understand the need to increase GTC prices to cover the re-sellers profit margin, however we are talking about a virtual product here. Would it not be possible to cut out the middle-man and allow us to purchase ETC directly from CCP at $15?
Would it also not be possible to allow subscribers opting to use CCP's preferred payment method to pay in dollars and thus pay the same fee as their American counterparts?
The ideal, though less simple, solution would be to allow us the option to buy GTC or subscribe for $15/Ç9.50/ú7.60 (blame XE.com if the numbers are off) and adjust the prices individually if exchange rates make doing so prudent. This allows us to avoid any fees involved in currency conversion, makes it easy for people to see exactly how much they are paying, and CCP get their $15 from every account.
In any case many of us probably won't take kindly to effectively being second class customers and I doubt the couple of bucks saved by changing the GTC system will make up for the accounts lost when it comes to CCP's bottom line.
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DaReaper
Net 7 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:26:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Mega Thong
Originally by: Mahke
Quote: that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
Why doesn't CCP just sell timecards DIRECTLY to players then. That way, theres no middleman. Either they directly charge us 35 and make 5 more bucks per 60 day timecard themselves, or charge us less and benefit from more demand as less gtc-users cancel their accounts (I don't know anyone who plans on cancelling their main because of this, but I DO know several people dropping alt accounts).
i never did understand why there was ever a need to go to a totally different website to get gametime for this one when CCP can just sell the codes to us.
or is this another "Market Trend set by Blizzard" that CCP are following
This is easy. You can;t buy a time card for cash off a website. If you go to say Big video game box store A and buy a GTC you can walk in and pay with cash.
If you have a CC you shoudl be buying a subscription that way, not buying a time code with your cc then using it to play, that is just stupid. That is why ccp doesn;t really sell time codes through them, if your already at the eve site, ready to use your credit card to buy a time code... it would be easyer to just pay for your account instead.
ofc i understand people but timecards with credit so they can sell the codes ingame. But still, time codes at retailers so you can use cash to buy them
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Cunny Funt
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:09:00 -
[555]
CCP should ***** down on the macro-players devalueing ISK and buying GTC's with macro money...
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:27:00 -
[556]
Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 07:34:18 If this change goes into effect, I have friends that without any doubt 100% will close all their accounts because it will limit how they play the game too much. And one has 5 accounts. This is beyond the most hurtful decision I've ever seen CCP make, please appeal to the community and resend this decision!
And anyone who hasn't yet, voice your support in this thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
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Johnny Gurkha
Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:34:00 -
[557]
Originally by: xena zena If this change goes into affect, I have friends that without any doubt 100% will close all their accounts because it will limit how they play the game too much. And one has 5 accounts. This is beyond the most hurtful decision I've ever seen CCP make, please appeal to the community and resend this decision!
And anyone who hasn't yet, voice your support in this thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
One 20 page thread is too much for my sore hangover head, 2 20 page threads and I think I'd have a "Scanners" moment....
MCI Recruitment |
xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:39:00 -
[558]
The linked thread is just the voting thread to force the CSM members to bring this to the table at their meeting where CCP would have to acknowledge it. It's a metric for CCP to see the actual number of accounts that read these forms and care enough to post their opposition to the change. Posting a simple "/signed" and checking the "I support this thread" checkbox is all you need to do in that thread, not much reading since 99% of the posts are exactly that.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
Supporting that thread with a support post is IMPORTANT.
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Giyther
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:41:00 -
[559]
I have to agree with everyone that this a terrible idea. I can almost understand a small price increase but to get rid of the 30 day time code and the 90 day time code is terrible.
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Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:45:00 -
[560]
They always seem to dodge around it they dont understand we want the 30days and 90days back and most are willing to pay the little extra to cover the costs just for the felxability it offers us.
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:50:00 -
[561]
Not a lot of people care about the price increase, if ccp justifies that it has to be done because they loose to much money on it or whatever, its not the price, its the removal of options. Not everyone wants to *HAVE* to extend their account 60 days, theres plenty of GOOD reasons why you only want to play 30 days at a time. But with the higher costs it does hurt those who can only play via GTC's and not credit card.
If the reason is that too many EURO's are using GTC's bought with USD, instead of paying the monthly credit card fee in EUROS which is a fair bit more pricey, and ccp is just trying to recover that perceived loss of income... then it's probably their own fault for setting the fee the same in USD as EURO when they know darn well that the two currencies are not equal in value. Then if thats the reason for these changes and price increases then I think its utter BS. And CCP should be called out on that. If its legitimate increased overhead with the creation and sale and commission to the sellers, then fine. If its trying to get some extra buck out of those trying to circumvent the USD:EURO difference, then shame on them.
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Brother Welcome
Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:56:00 -
[562]
It might be to do with administration or other fixed overheads such as transaction fees, which make it more desirable to sell a minimum value unit (i.e. 60 rather than 30), but that doesn't explain removing 90-day codes.
Anyone who thinks it's to do with forex is just mistaken. That might cause a price adjustment, but wouldn't cause removal of options.
My guess is with those who wonder whether the 30-day codes weren't being 'abused' by second account holders to level toons, perhaps with a view to selling them on the Character Bazaar. I could care less about any theoretical advantage to the playes, but over time it would have a devaluing effect on time-codes.
I suspect what happened is 30-day codes started to seem unattractive, and having 60-day and 90-day codes seems not much better than simplifying to 60, which would save administration hassles.
-BW
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:00:00 -
[563]
Any high level rich player you're referring too would buy 90-day gtc's more economical, because any toon they'd want to level up to sell would take a VERY long time to skill. Plus I doubt theres a huge amount of people that skill characters to sell them for isk, I kinda think generally you get LESS isk out of a character then what the GTC's would of cost you to skill it.. *shrug*, even if not other investments over that time with those isks would of yielded much more isk too..
I'm leaning toward punish and recover more money from people buying GTC's for USD instead of paying the EURO fee... *shrug*
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:00:00 -
[564]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 24/05/2008 08:01:12
Originally by: CCP RyanD We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
It is either obvious lie or poor try to calm down subscribers. Like that promise to "deal with lags", which made years ago. (And lags is still with us...)
Even if your words are truth, that must be implemented before any other changes, if you, at least, do not want to ever see topics like this.
Quote: We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.
If it is another processing crap like PayByCash, I'll just forget my 2 accounts for a while.
Let me explain some basics. Monts ago it was a choice to pay more or less frequently for me, depends on my workload and private lifetime. With the introduction of solo pwnmobiles (read: heavy interdictors), i'm strictly stuck in highsec, without ability to step into lowsec without beeing shredded to dust, because just every pirate now flying Onyx or Broadsword. That's ok, I can live with it, even if this life isn't good. Just less enjoyable. First. Now I'm forced to pay more and for longer periods, where I know i will not be using even half of the time for playing. (i mean, half of the 2-4h everyday playtime, normal for most of adult playerbase). Second. I have no option to pay for game, other than GTC - I do not see a credit card as affordable option for my budget - it's plainly useless and extremely expensive for me, most of my income are "virtual" electronic currency, exceptionally flexibe for me. While PayByCash receiving payments in my preferred currency, they adding crazy tax over the price, basically making it costs the same as future ETC (like $18.5/month), requesting HUGE amount of my private information that I do not want to be disclosed to anyone, and typically working with the needed currency only by great promise. (I've had long discussion with their support girl that does not know anything about internet and payment processing at all ) So, back to GTC/ETC. I don't mind to pay more, but not THAT more. $35 for the month (or less) of playing... That's third. You're counting? 3 cases to cancel account. Your post was fourth one. Right now I'm seriously thinking about stopping to pay for the service, that does not progressing in ages. Yes, that's EVE. You're providing service, that offering major changing... in look, but never changed in feel. It feels like one solid lag. Because it is one solid lag. Fifth one.
P.S. This post were cost me $15 that I will not be able to spend for food in next week, basically put me on "bread and water" diet. As I said, I can live with it. Even if life sometimes isn't enjoyable. But when "sometimes" starts trying to tends to be "every time", I'll take serious steps to make right considerations. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Brother Welcome
Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:01:00 -
[565]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 24/05/2008 08:03:32
Originally by: xena zena Any high level rich player you're referring too would buy 90-day gtc's more economical, because any toon they'd want to level up to sell would take a VERY long time to skill. Plus I doubt theres a huge amount of people that skill characters to sell them for isk, I kinda think generally you get LESS isk out of a character then what the GTC's would of cost you to skill it.. *shrug*, even if not other investments over that time with those isks would of yielded much more isk too..
I'm leaning toward punish and recover more money from people buying GTC's for USD instead of paying the EURO fee... *shrug*
Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.
Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.
BW
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:18:00 -
[566]
Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 08:21:57
Originally by: Brother Welcome Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.
Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.
BW
Ok after reading that I get the impression:
1. They're tired of people circumventing the E14.95 (or $23.60 at current exchange rate), heck thats $8.65 lost per 30 days. 2. The bulk sell price of less then $14.95 to the resellers means they loose even more per 30 days!
So the solution is, make it painful by having to pay for 60 days upfront, and jack the price up! Hoping this drives more people to just direct-pay the additional 157.8% on their credit cards.
By trying to justify that they're doing it because Blizzard only sells 60 day GTC's is kinda silly. Since what else do they do thats industry-standard set by blizzard? Not pricing, obviously, not anything else I've ever noticed, so why this now?
It's all about the money. IF they can force the euros to direct pay in EUROS, heck thats 57% more income right there, win win, right?
Lets ignore all the little folk that aren't doing it to circumvent the exchange rate, or that can only maintain their alts and number of accounts through buying via isk, lets not worry about hurting them. The loss of those accounts won't effect the bottom line as much? RIGHT?
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:45:00 -
[567]
I'm TIRED of CCP and his game EVE
Are they solving lag probz ? -> NO !
Are they solving macroers ruining economy ? -> NO !
Are they solving nanofags ? -> NO !
What are they doing?
Well,
They are adding more fun for "the wow player" ... with ambulation.
They are adding things we don't need, like factionnal warfare
They are increasing their prices up to 33% more
They are lyars, avoiding to answer the good questions and hiding the truth behind empty words.
I begin to be tired of this game BECAUSE of this company
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:47:00 -
[568]
Edited by: Locii on 24/05/2008 08:48:29 i have said earlier in this taht my gf and me maintain 6 accounts between us. 3 full time accounts and 3 indusrty guys we activate to mine and haul as we need them.
afetr speaking to her about this 30% price and the scraping of the 30day time codes we use for these accounts, we will me paying teh one off fee to merge them with our main. so ccp we were paying you ú100 x 3 per year for these accounts, your now gonnna be getting 1 x 60 euro payment.. nice work for saving me cash in the long run ccp...
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:49:00 -
[569]
I don't understand why Europeans have to pay 57% more then Americans? I suspect quite ALOT of them have been just using GTC's to circumvent this, thus this change. I still don't understand the direct $14.95/E14.95. it doesn't seem even REMOTELY fair considering the great difference in currency exchange rates. If the majority of the players don't want to pay 57% more with direct-pay jsut because of the exchange rate, then why not appease them, take a little less profit, and not risk ****ing off potentially a vast amount of your customers?
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Mistress Ingrid
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:49:00 -
[570]
Iceland's economy in trouble? Could this be why they are raising prices?
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4801.html
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