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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Johnathan Walker
Unknown-Heroes
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:33:00 -
[1]
Quote: Changes coming for ETC's and Game Time Cards
reported by: CCP Wrangler | 2008.05.22 13:57:19
To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store. Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008.
Dear CCP,
As a long time customer paying my own way to play Eve Online, I am both frustrated and disappointed that this decision has come down against the player base. I rather enjoy the flexibility of purchasing a 30-day code or a 90-day code when I wish to customize the length of time my account(s) are active.
Removing both 30 and 90 day options serves to limit player choice and force our decisions. I believe I speak for a fair number of players when I say this: stripping that little bit of control over how long we pay for is unwise.
I believe that simply introducing the 60 day option along with retaining the 30 and 90 day options will not only increase customer choice but may in fact drive higher traffic and sales to the company. As players are given more control and choice over their gaming experience, the possible rewards grow exponentially.
Please seriously re-consider the economic and demographic impact of removing the 30 day and 90 day options. I am one player that prefers to game in 30 day increments, and to decide where I play, when I pay, and how much I pay.
A concerned customer voting with his dollar, - JW
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Mac Maniac
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:39:00 -
[2]
I am seriously considering closing my 2nd account and from what I am hearing from my corpmates; many of them as well. CCP you are heading in entirely the WRONG direction.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
A concerned customer voting with his dollar, - JW
i think we may have identified the problem here. with the dollar losing so much value compared to other currencies im surprised it took this long to see a price hike. :( We come for our people |
Jantje Smit
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mac Maniac I am seriously considering closing my 2nd account and from what I am hearing from my corpmates; many of them as well. CCP you are heading in entirely the WRONG direction.
KBye.
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Jantje Smit
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker *whine* - JW
Dont pay using GTCs then?
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:43:00 -
[6]
"Go Go Gadget CSM Council.."
First order of business.. GTCs.
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Haakelen
United Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:45:00 -
[7]
Welp. Kinda sucks, but the dollar is weak as hell, so what do you expect? It's an extra $2.50 a month, not a big deal unless you have 10 accounts or something.
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Caiman Graystock
Quantum of Solace
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:46:00 -
[8]
Wait, doesn't that represent a significant price increase too? Why make a move to simplify things for the reseller and not the customer?
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Haakelen Welp. Kinda sucks, but the dollar is weak as hell, so what do you expect? It's an extra $2.50 a month, not a big deal unless you have 10 accounts or something.
…so the question is, what will the price be in €?
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fux lol
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:52:00 -
[10]
bah, i used to love the fact that i could buy a 90 day for my main which i'm always using
and when i start to get low on isk, i'd buy a 30 day timecard for an alt and do some missions on it.. or y'know i could just buy a 30 day card if i wanted to try out another portion of the game for a decent price.. its silly that now i have to Pay More.. for the oppurtunity to lose some of this flexibility..
not so much a whine, as a general thumbs down at CCP, something ive not actually thought in a good 3 years
Bleh -1
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Mac Maniac
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:52:00 -
[11]
Jantje Smit, Why don't you try to use your head for something other than a hatrack?
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:57:00 -
[12]
SUPRISE: CCP AFTER MORE MONEY
Stops a lot of downtime training for alts as well.
SKUNK
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fux lol
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:58:00 -
[13]
also, wher'd you get your info, cant find anything on this at all, dev blog on the website, most up to date one is for the 21st cant find anything from today on the entire eve site.
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Jantje Smit
The Golden Goat
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Posted - 2008.05.22 14:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mac Maniac Jantje Smit, Why don't you try to use your head for something other than a hatrack?
Because thousands of UK suscribers have been avoiding costs by paying in $, im not suprised they upped the price.
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: fux lol also, wher'd you get your info, cant find anything on this at all, dev blog on the website, most up to date one is for the 21st cant find anything from today on the entire eve site.
Player News Center – first item
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Digital Anarchist
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:01:00 -
[16]
Dear CCP, please reconsider this decision.
Having the GTC flexibility is just one of the things that make Eve great.
If you just want to raise prices, do so openly.
------------------------ This space for rent |
Arito Ka
Pelennor Swarm Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:05:00 -
[17]
I would be fine with CCP raising prices do to the weak USD. However, I'm not really understanding why they would go about doing this by only offering 60day timecards. More options is always better than 1 choice.
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Mac Maniac
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jantje Smit
Originally by: Mac Maniac Jantje Smit, Why don't you try to use your head for something other than a hatrack?
Because thousands of UK suscribers have been avoiding costs by paying in $, im not suprised they upped the price.
And upping the cost in exchange for the loss of accounts and alienating customers is good for business?
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Tissa
Alice in Wonderland Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:08:00 -
[19]
The UK players pay twice as much as the Americans because we have a VAT of 17.5%
Please continue to whine about your tiny $ increase.
No wonder you're late. Why, this watch is exactly two days slow. www.evefront.com
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Mavolio
White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:08:00 -
[20]
Looks like they had lots of time to talk about fixing the cost of EvE but yet they still havn't made it possible to pay with Maestro cards.
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Donald Truman
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Digital Anarchist If you just want to raise prices, do so openly.
This. I find it quite off-putting to see CCP portraying this in terms of "we're just simplifying things and getting in line with industry standards", with zero acknowledgment that this constitutes a subscription fee increase.
Unless raising prices without saying that's what you're doing is the "industry standard" they're talking about.
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Red Skelton
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:12:00 -
[22]
Dont care if it costs more. I do want 30 or 90 day choices, however. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Donald Truman
Originally by: Digital Anarchist If you just want to raise prices, do so openly.
This. I find it quite off-putting to see CCP portraying this in terms of "we're just simplifying things and getting in line with industry standards", with zero acknowledgment that this constitutes a subscription fee increase.
Unless raising prices without saying that's what you're doing is the "industry standard" they're talking about.
From CCP's point of view, this may not consitute a price rise. They don't work in dollars. They may in fact just be ending what has come to constitute a huge discount to US customers.
AFAIK, I'm still paying 15 Euros per month as a subscriber. For a long time, US players were paying considerably less than me. Now that the subsidised dollar price has been equalised, why the outrage?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Johnathan Walker
Unknown-Heroes
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: fux lol also, wher'd you get your info, cant find anything on this at all, dev blog on the website, most up to date one is for the 21st cant find anything from today on the entire eve site.
Login to the game. Right on the news screen.
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Johnathan Walker
Unknown-Heroes
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
AFAIK, I'm still paying 15 Euros per month as a subscriber. For a long time, US players were paying considerably less than me. Now that the subsidised dollar price has been equalised, why the outrage?
It's not the cost, its the fact that no longer will customers have a choice between 30 or 90 day... they will be forced to buy 60 days at a time, no exceptions.
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Rosur
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:17:00 -
[26]
Dont do this or at least make 60days aroud $24 rather than $34. Or just add the 60 days as well dont get rid of the 30days and 90days
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fux lol
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:18:00 -
[27]
ok.. where on the website can i tell ccp "no"
lol
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Johnathan Walker
Unknown-Heroes
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: fux lol ok.. where on the website can i tell ccp "no"
lol
http://www.ccpgames.com/company/contact.asp
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Jorr Meditir
Bladerunners Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Rosur Dont do this or at least make 60days aroud $24 rather than $34. Or just add the 60 days as well dont get rid of the 30days and 90days
Yeah, not cool CCP, not cool.
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Naomi Chiyo
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:19:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Naomi Chiyo on 22/05/2008 15:22:22 Those new timecards don t just affect the games flexibility, thy are increasing the price by the fair amount of 35%. Just consider a 90day -GTC being sold for over 50$ cause that would be the equivalent to those new codes. I mean when you ve to adjust to something, and change the length of the codes, WHY INCREASE THE PRICE BY 35% AS WELL ?
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Lord XSiV
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Mac Maniac I am seriously considering closing my 2nd account and from what I am hearing from my corpmates; many of them as well. CCP you are heading in entirely the WRONG direction.
Yawn.
Don't worry, your threat to cancel your 'second' account has been noted and falls into a very low to non-existent likelihood of occurance. And if it were to happen, the revenue will quickly be replaced by a real dedicated player once power of two is offered once again.
Thank you CCP for starting to address real paying customers concerns of being able to play the game by 'culling' the free loaders into paying what is more appropriate for an on demand method of payment which is common everywhere else.
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Mac Maniac
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:27:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Mac Maniac on 22/05/2008 15:30:39 People .. You do the math.. this is about a 30-35% increase if not more.
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:31:00 -
[33]
Even less reason for me to get another account to dip into FW. Sucky.
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Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:34:00 -
[34]
I can see why CCP choose this route, but I think they should have kept 30 day-card because it is a nice cheap measure as in my case where the CC expired, and added the 60 day-card option.
~No, you are not special. I insult everyone. |
okcerg
Fellowship of The Outer Ring
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:34:00 -
[35]
Please CCP don't remove 30 days GTC... That was so convenient I could take a few days break between two months of gaming. I guess I can pay by Mastercard then cancel my account 30 days later to keep my playing pace? But that means I would have to pay in Ç And that's a 50% increase. 30 days of Eve costs me 9.5Ç via GTC (cheap $ ftw) instead of 14.95Ç via Mastercard.
Rise 30 days GTC price CCP but do not remove them please
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:36:00 -
[36]
I don't think anyone here has any right to complain in fairness.
It was just TOO easy to get a sub for like half price if you lived in the UK by buying GTC in dollars, sure WE save money but CCP lose it, and they simply can't allow that, which sucks but hey ho they need to make money you know...
the value of playtime just rose about 50% in isk terms too which unfortunately could affect some people :( -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Segge Bolled
Dirty Sexy Pilots
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:36:00 -
[37]
Ugh. I'm really not happy with this. I don't think my whining is going to really achieve much, though. At least I'm lucky, my second account is mostly for skilling a mining character and I have a spare slot on my main, now. So all in all when the last GTC runs dry I can flip them over and call it a day for the second account. Then I can keep enough ISK flowing in for the primary account.
Still, this sort of comes out of left field and I can't say I like it. Oh well.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:37:00 -
[38]
Damn, that was fast!
I cancelled 4 accounts a couple of weeks ago and gave as the reason that I didn't see any point in paying the Euro rates when I could get it 1/3 or more cheaper if buying at GTC's at SC. I then recommended they harmonise prices so the US players wouldn't be playing for the higher prices charged us Europeans.
However, I think the policy they should be following would be to only sell GTC's in Euro, and then let resellers like SC deal with the currency conversion.
I'm glad it worked though
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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RedLion
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:37:00 -
[39]
so it will cost 35 dollar for 60 days, compared to now 15 dollar for 30 days? O.o
That's lame :<
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
kjetil1
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:42:00 -
[40]
Ha ha ccp had to care even more about mony one day!
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Nikeffo
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Naomi Chiyo Edited by: Naomi Chiyo on 22/05/2008 15:22:22 Those new timecards don t just affect the games flexibility, thy are increasing the price by the fair amount of 35%. Just consider a 90day -GTC being sold for over 50$ cause that would be the equivalent to those new codes. I mean when you ve to adjust to something, and change the length of the codes, WHY INCREASE THE PRICE BY 35% AS WELL ?
Because the $ is ****, thats why. Once the yanks sort out their Bush economy, prices might drop again.
Have some cheese, people.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:54:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Xennith on 22/05/2008 15:55:06
Originally by: RedLion Edited by: RedLion on 22/05/2008 15:40:26 so it will cost 35 dollar for 60 days, compared to now 15 dollar for 30 days? O.o
That's lame :<
yes, an entire $5 rise per month in how many years?
i dunno about you guys but i spend that much on a pint.
its not even that, i messed up my maths. its $2.50 thats half a coke. per month. We come for our people |
Spiteful Soul
Crimson Flag
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:55:00 -
[43]
I think its fair that they raised the cost - I hate how US players could just get it cheaper than us euros.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:55:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 22/05/2008 15:55:36
Originally by: Nikeffo
Originally by: Naomi Chiyo Edited by: Naomi Chiyo on 22/05/2008 15:22:22 Those new timecards don t just affect the games flexibility, thy are increasing the price by the fair amount of 35%. Just consider a 90day -GTC being sold for over 50$ cause that would be the equivalent to those new codes. I mean when you ve to adjust to something, and change the length of the codes, WHY INCREASE THE PRICE BY 35% AS WELL ?
Because the $ is ****, thats why. Once the yanks sort out their Bush economy, prices might drop again.
Have some cheese, people.
How will CCP be able to get away with such an extreme rise in what they want to charge for EVE, when no other MMO publisher has?
I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.
Plus, this will only bring back the ISK farmers/sellers. Now that the cieling of the worth of ISK has just been pulled due to GTC prices becoming irrational, they were just given new life.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Gumdrop
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:55:00 -
[45]
Wow shame on you guys getting all mad at CCP. Its George Bush's fault the dollar is so weak not CCP's fault.
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Zephyrante
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:59:00 -
[46]
I will close extra acount will only leave main online and not sure if it will be online too long, there is ppl that cant pay Ç to play the game, paying with isks benefits both CCP and players, this changes will close a lot of extra acounts Bad move CCP, worst even when Lag and desyncs keep going up and up, you ask for more money for a game that doesnt get better.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:01:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 16:02:05
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.
Oh, I think they will earn more. One in every seven accounts affected by this would have to be cancelled for them to be worse off. Don't see that happening.
European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zephyrante I will close extra acount will only leave main online and not sure if it will be online too long, there is ppl that cant pay Ç to play the game, paying with isks benefits both CCP and players, this changes will close a lot of extra acounts Bad move CCP, worst even when Lag and desyncs keep going up and up, you ask for more money for a game that doesnt get better.
I suspect that this is the first shoe to drop, and that they are going to raise the monthly fee by credit card as well.
Seriously, someone needs to be doing some serious `splainin right now. If we are to pay more, we have a perfect right to an explanation as to why, and what this extra expense is going to get us.
If it's nothing, well, CCP, hate to tell you this, but with the cost of gas doubling in the last couple years, food prices rising, etc, this means less money left over for entertainment.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Toolbert
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:03:00 -
[49]
At this point, CCP might aswell add in a life time subscription option. I would seriously consider it now. Hellgate London, and Lord of the Rings both offer these options for $150 for one account. I think the idea is awesome and I would be willing to pay that high but one time fee to not have to worry about time cards and monthly fee increases ever again.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 16:02:05
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.
Oh, I think they will earn more. One in every seven accounts affected by this would have to be cancelled for them to be worse off. Don't see that happening.
European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
I don't think US politics are appropriate here.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
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Zephyrante
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:04:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 16:02:05
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.
Oh, I think they will earn more. One in every seven accounts affected by this would have to be cancelled for them to be worse off. Don't see that happening.
European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
Im an european player, all my corp mates are and all are buying in dolars because you pay less that way so no, smart europeans that where buying GTCs in Dolars arent happy.
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Master Spoonman
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:09:00 -
[52]
Thinly veiled attempt to charge your customers more money for a worse product? Bad show, CCP.
***
*Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me* |
Nikeffo
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:11:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
I don't think US politics are appropriate here.
US Politics are not appropriate anywhere...
Seriously, With the weak $, this is a wise move by CCP to keep afloat. And if you people cant afford two extra bucks a month, skip a couple of beers or quit smoking. Its not that hard. $2 extra a month.
Have some cheese with your wHine.
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bestsnail
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 16:02:05
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.
Oh, I think they will earn more. One in every seven accounts affected by this would have to be cancelled for them to be worse off. Don't see that happening.
European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
I don't think US politics are appropriate here.
Accually he is right. Americans right now pay alot less per month to play the game. The dollar is worth about 40% less than it was when eve first start so who can blame them for raising the price.
If eve = cow and euro = chicken and dollar = pigs. If 1 cow cost 15 chickens but 1 pig is worth 3 chickens how many pigs does it cost to buy 1 cow. thats right 5 pigs but the way it is now they are accepting 4 pigs and the chickens dont think its fair.
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Pilot Abilene
Serpentine Dream Theory
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:14:00 -
[55]
While we are at it lets remove GTC trading for ISK too...I mean seriously, get a job you bums. If paying the monthly fee is breaking your budget then playing online computer games is the least of your worries. There is only one valid reason for GTC use and that is for ppl who don't have a credit card and therefore a GTC should = subscription cost or close to it depending on where you live, end of story...none of this getting GTC's cheaper than subscribers shenanigans.
You can cancel and restart your account using a credit card any time you like so i don't see how GTC's are more flexible with regard to choosing when you play.
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Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:15:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Naomi Chiyo Edited by: Naomi Chiyo on 22/05/2008 15:22:22 Those new timecards don t just affect the games flexibility, thy are increasing the price by the fair amount of 35%. Just consider a 90day -GTC being sold for over 50$ cause that would be the equivalent to those new codes. I mean when you ve to adjust to something, and change the length of the codes, WHY INCREASE THE PRICE BY 35% AS WELL ?
Because 1 Euro is 1.572 dollars? Try check the dollar vs euro chart. Then start complain to the US goverment instead.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?D4=1&ViewType=0&ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&DateRangeForm=1&ComparisonsForm=1&CE=0&D5=0&3=0&C9=0&DisplayForm=1&Symbol=%2fEURUS&CP=0&PT=8
Its not CCPs fault that the dollar suck so much as it does. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kerfira
European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
Can you read? or do simple maths?
Now: 90days = $38.85 = ú19.63
After the change: 60days = $38 = ú19.2
Now, tell me why I'm as happy as a fish in a pond, unless the pond is acid and the fish is melting alive. I don't see exactly how losing a month of playtime but paying the same makes me in any way happy. --------------------- Nox Eternus is Recruiting, contact me or Sgt Shazz ingame for info. |
Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I don't think US politics are appropriate here.
Why? They're the base cause of this.
CCP operate in RL ISK (which I think is bound to the Euro?). The free-falling dollar means CCP is getting less money all the time from their US customers, but their expenses stay the same. Basic economics say that they'll have to raise prices.
So yes, US politics are appropriate to mention here. Building up a ginormous state and trade deficit has always had one result, and that is a devalued currency which automatically leads to higher prices for imports. EVE as such is an import. Cause and effect!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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NoNameNewbie
Raynor Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:23:00 -
[59]
OUTRAGE !
i dont really care about the price, but i'm just to lazy to update my accs every two month so gib 120day GTC ffs
o.0
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Lorna Loot
Originally by: Kerfira European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
Can you read? or do simple maths?
Now: 90days = $38.85 = ú19.63
After the change: 60days = $38 = ú19.2
Now, tell me why I'm as happy as a fish in a pond, unless the pond is acid and the fish is melting alive. I don't see exactly how losing a month of playtime but paying the same makes me in any way happy.
Apologies, I should have said 'Euro players not doing VAT evasion by buying their goods abroad'
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Mioelnir
KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:25:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 22/05/2008 16:26:05 Exactly where do you all get the info that it will not be 34.99 of whatever currency you use?
There is no mentioning of that in the news item. CCP has misused $ as a general sign for "currency" in the past.
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Maradonia Kalrisian
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:25:00 -
[62]
first they increase the $ per day of GTC's (whilst reducing flexibility.. which the value of the US$ should not effect at all)
and in a few months it will make sense to increase the overall subscription costs per month for credit card users too. GTC increase is just to soften us up :(
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Lorna Loot
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:25:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mioelnir Exactly where do you all get the info that it will not be 34.99 of whatever currency you use?
There is no mentioning of that in the news item.
Currency converters work wonders. --------------------- Nox Eternus is Recruiting, contact me or Sgt Shazz ingame for info. |
Apocryphai
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:26:00 -
[64]
At that price this is a 35% increase in my monthly cost to play EVE.
You can dress this up, justify it, explain it, whatever, I'm sure CCP and the fans can come up with any number of rational, reasonable explanations for this,whatever.
The effect is going to be the same for me and, I guess, a lot of other people - I'm going to have a careful think about whether or not I want to pay an extra 35% for my accounts (I have 3).
CCP have put some effort into encouraging multiple-accounts with the Power of Two offer, with the skill training design and with the way specialisation works in EVE. Now FW is clearly aiming to get more multiple-account subscriptions. And now all of those multiple accounts could cost 35% more per month.
This isn't a "OMG I'm cancelling my 3 accounts, waaaa!" post. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to cancel or not, it's a ****ed off customer providing feedback to CCP and wondering if there's enough satisfying content in this game for me to justify a 35% increase in cost. ________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:27:00 -
[65]
this is a multiple page thread -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Mioelnir
KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:27:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lorna Loot Currency converters work wonders.
Haven't worked for Apple since the dawn of time.
And see my edit, it wouldn't been the first time $ is misused as a "generic currency symbol". I'd very much like Wrangler to clear that up.
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Arous Drephius
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:29:00 -
[67]
No CCP, just no. Terrible move on your part.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:31:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Apocryphai At that price this is a 35% increase in my monthly cost to play EVE.
You can dress this up, justify it, explain it, whatever, I'm sure CCP and the fans can come up with any number of rational, reasonable explanations for this,whatever.
The effect is going to be the same for me and, I guess, a lot of other people - I'm going to have a careful think about whether or not I want to pay an extra 35% for my accounts (I have 3).
CCP have put some effort into encouraging multiple-accounts with the Power of Two offer, with the skill training design and with the way specialisation works in EVE. Now FW is clearly aiming to get more multiple-account subscriptions. And now all of those multiple accounts could cost 35% more per month.
This isn't a "OMG I'm cancelling my 3 accounts, waaaa!" post. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to cancel or not, it's a ****ed off customer providing feedback to CCP and wondering if there's enough satisfying content in this game for me to justify a 35% increase in cost.
Especially considering that I get 0 out of this expansion unless I abandon my corp and alliance.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Haurian Zealot
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:31:00 -
[69]
After reading the news item and this topic, I have come to the following opinion.
I propose that CCP introduce the 60d card/code as planned, however, they should retain the 30d code. A price hike to $20 for a 30d code should make it worthwhile to buy the 60d codes for those who really want to save money, and will give CCP a higher revenue. Yes, it's a 33% price rise for 30d, but with the current weak dollar, it is only fair that CCP rises the price to compensate.
Whether CCP changes the US credit card subscription cost is their choice, but IMO it should rise to $19.99 to be in line with the GTC cost. If they do raise the price, I would hope they leave the Euro price at it's current level, so that the prices are more in sync than the current situation.
Under my proposal, costs are as follows:
CC subscription
US: $19.99 (up $5) Europe: Ç14.99 (current)
GTC cost
30d: $19.99 (up $5) 60d: 34.99 (As proposed by CCP)
Yes, at the moment it is still cheaper for EU citizens to buy GTC's in dollars, but much less than the current situation.
Feel free to flame/agree/criticise constructively etc.
/me searches for his flameproof suit. I'm sure I left it around here somewhere...
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bestsnail
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:32:00 -
[70]
Instead of crying on here just go cry to your moms, im sure they can come up for a few extra chores each month to increase your allowance. Or go get a job at McDonalds seriously lol.
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Ter Aris
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:32:00 -
[71]
This is extremely poor.
Im serious this is totally ****. Industry standards? Its simply to get more money. No way will i be forced into paying that price.
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Dragons Talon
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:33:00 -
[72]
This is as bad as work..I fail to understand why they dropped the 30 and 90 day cards? Sounds like someones just getting lazy at CCP and don't want to do the extra little bit to make more than one card.
And who cares about the cost...the price of everything is going up why not this as well?
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Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:37:00 -
[73]
I have to agree ccp is going the wrong way about doing this and are simply trying to take advantage of the gtc market sales to get extra income its appauling they are becoming greedy.
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Apocryphai
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:37:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Apocryphai on 22/05/2008 16:36:53 Oh BTW, there's going to be a rush on 90d GTC's on shattered crystal etc... ________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
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Mae West
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:39:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Mae West on 22/05/2008 16:39:13 No where in that news brief does it state direct payers would be paying more. ============================
This is my sig yo |
AppleBanana
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:39:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Haurian Zealot After reading the news item and this topic, I have come to the following opinion.
I propose that CCP introduce the 60d card/code as planned, however, they should retain the 30d code. A price hike to $20 for a 30d code should make it worthwhile to buy the 60d codes for those who really want to save money, and will give CCP a higher revenue. Yes, it's a 33% price rise for 30d, but with the current weak dollar, it is only fair that CCP rises the price to compensate.
Whether CCP changes the US credit card subscription cost is their choice, but IMO it should rise to $19.99 to be in line with the GTC cost. If they do raise the price, I would hope they leave the Euro price at it's current level, so that the prices are more in sync than the current situation.
Under my proposal, costs are as follows:
CC subscription
US: $19.99 (up $5) Europe: Ç14.99 (current)
GTC cost
30d: $19.99 (up $5) 60d: 34.99 (As proposed by CCP)
Yes, at the moment it is still cheaper for EU citizens to buy GTC's in dollars, but much less than the current situation.
Feel free to flame/agree/criticise constructively etc.
/me searches for his flameproof suit. I'm sure I left it around here somewhere...
14.99 USD = 9.54040 EUR If they wanted it to be the same americans would have to pay $23.54 a month. Which would make 60 day GTCs $47.08 USD. Personally I wouldnt be complaining about $35 USD for a 60 day GTC, americans will still end up paying less for eve than the rest of the world.
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:41:00 -
[77]
wow, 90 days were 37$, this is ridiculous, so for 30 days less we pay 3 dollars less? i occassionally buy GTC for isk if i get hit hard in game, just to give me a boost back to making money that wont ever happen again,
ever see that direct TV commerical poking fun at ridiculous cable companies? i got this strange feeling that CCP went to the same buisness school as that A%%hole in the commercials.
people complain about the game/service so the only logical thing for CCP to do is raise the price?
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:42:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Apocryphai Oh BTW, there's going to be a rush on 90d GTC's on shattered crystal etc...
I guess now would be a good time to mention I have an affiliate link on my website (website link in my sig) and it's barely been used for months now. *shameless hint hint*
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
mamolian
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:47:00 -
[79]
Edited by: mamolian on 22/05/2008 16:47:02 This upsets me. It will cost you at least one of my accounts CCP. -----------
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Jacob Marden
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:48:00 -
[80]
Unless I read the CSM election results wrong, it states that almost 40% of the subscription base is North American. Making that much of your playerbase pay more money essentially because the smaller percentage of Euros are evading their own countries' taxes by buying with dollars doesn't strike me as making much sense. The NA people are going to be making the same amount of income regardless, so increasing the cost of their entertainment will just alienate more of them and sooner or later they'll talk with their money.
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Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:49:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Matrixcvd ever see that direct TV commerical poking fun at ridiculous cable companies? i got this strange feeling that CCP went to the same buisness school as that A%%hole in the commercials.
LOL That's exactly what I was thinking Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Warrior Crash
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:50:00 -
[82]
if its gunna be costing more to play you need to be building a new server because im not up for paying for 1 that lags bad as it is now. It doesnt matter what country you live in now the cost of living is going up as it is, and the wages dont go up so your basicly screewing your selfs as most people will not be able to afford to pay for the game each month.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1315/nfssigur6.gif |
Sertan Deras
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:51:00 -
[83]
CCP: Finding new and innovative ways to bone our customers on a regular basis. We couldn't stop at adding crap to the game no one wants, while not fixing things that have been broken for years.
No, we had to shaft everyone that uses game time cards to play the game too. Viva la customer satisfaction.
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theteck
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:52:00 -
[84]
35%
maybe its the time to stop playing ... i buy 90 day all the time because the price but now its finish
:(
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Forge Lag
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:59:00 -
[85]
This game has unhealthy number of alts. It is nice to see that CPP is working on solution.
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Emma Royd
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:59:00 -
[86]
with the spare manpower available with the new 60 day gtc maybe they could spare them to go bug hunting
It's not often I'm wrong, apart from the comments I make in the signature, and then I'm often wrong. On the other hand maybe I'm getting confused. ......My head hurts :( |
Rei Toai
Faaip De Oiad
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:04:00 -
[87]
Originally by: bestsnail
Accually he is right. Americans right now pay alot less per month to play the game.
i'd guess your argument is flawed. people that pay in USD pay the same as before - unless there's a big in/deflation an USD will buy in the USD almost the same as before.
the ones that pay alot less, are those that "import" GTCs (like into the Ç-zone) ... while the USD drops they can buy more stuff that is priced in USD.
unless the ISK follows the USD in trend, it also means CCP's revenue in the US is diminishing. __________________________________
I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know. |
Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:04:00 -
[88]
What will happen with GTC, which is already bought, but not activated? Hell, Wrangler, if you post bad news - write more clearly. |
Cailais
VITOC
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:11:00 -
[89]
A poor decision CCP.
C.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:17:00 -
[90]
Wow great way to get people to think twice about the amount of accounts they have (especially before FW that was bound to end up in few new alts to test the waters).
This has nothing to do with industry standard. There are plenty of games using 30+90 instead of 60. And if you want to be wow wannabe than might as well charge the same and not 10$ more for 60 day ETC.
If you want more cash at leas be honest instead of this BS you give us. It's insulting to think that people playing excel online can't calculate %... |
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:18:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Jacob Marden Unless I read the CSM election results wrong, it states that almost 40% of the subscription base is North American. Making that much of your playerbase pay more money essentially because the smaller percentage of Euros are evading their own countries' taxes by buying with dollars doesn't strike me as making much sense. The NA people are going to be making the same amount of income regardless, so increasing the cost of their entertainment will just alienate more of them and sooner or later they'll talk with their money.
When you guys are paying the same as the rest of us you'd have something to complain about.
Until then shove it up your arse. |
4IROW
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:21:00 -
[92]
hoho... the whine is epic today
I'm sure alot will have to sell their houses and cars to keep playing eve...
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:21:00 -
[93]
very very bad move
i wonder how many idiotic posts will the ccp fangirls post in their narcisism
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stupid flanders
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:23:00 -
[94]
Edited by: stupid flanders on 22/05/2008 17:23:13 FFS they can't even provide forums that work... click reply to post... log in.... click reply to post again.... write nice long post.... click post reply... back to log in screen and no post.
So sorry to hear the weak dollar is hurting CCP cus you know it's a walk in the park over here.....
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:27:00 -
[95]
Yes, I can see you all hate AMERIKKA but you have to realize that about 40% of the players are from their. Thus 40% don't care that the dollar is down right now they just see them selves getting shafted and they know if and when the dollar comes back up time cards are not going to go back to what they were use to. This will just pis people off and has the chance to make tons of American's quit. That would rip a new hole in the price of characters. It would also tank the Timecard market because they would not be selling them for isk. This would mean that ccp would lose even more money because of this change as they lose subscribers and the 30% increase in timecards sure as hell won't help if they lose a ton of players. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:29:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Fallorn
Yes, I can see you all hate AMERIKKA but you have to realize that about 40% of the players are from their. Thus 40% don't care that the dollar is down right now they just see them selves getting shafted and they know if and when the dollar comes back up time cards are not going to go back to what they were use to. This will just pis people off and has the chance to make tons of American's quit. That would rip a new hole in the price of characters. It would also tank the Timecard market because they would not be selling them for isk. This would mean that ccp would lose even more money because of this change as they lose subscribers and the 30% increase in timecards sure as hell won't help if they lose a ton of players.
But but but, all the economy peeps say that if you charge more you get more...
PS:(as a physicist I truly hate economists, they ruin all our fun :D )
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Skjorta
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:29:00 -
[97]
How is making the monthly fee $17 with gtcs in line with the industry?
I think that makes it one of the most expensive in the industry...and more expensive than its competitors.
If it were 60 days for $29.99USD, it'd be fine. It seems they aren't thinking long term and just want to immediately exploit eve before it goes under.
I'm sure peoples main account will pay it just fine...but prepare for a lot of alt accounts to go inactive. Doesn't make a lot of business sense tbh.
gg ccp
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Avalira
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:30:00 -
[98]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Someone, make a thread in the new CSM forum. I'm voting for this being an issue.
Done
------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF 4.5b
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:31:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Fallorn
Yes, I can see you all hate AMERIKKA but you have to realize that about 40% of the players are from their. Thus 40% don't care that the dollar is down right now they just see them selves getting shafted and they know if and when the dollar comes back up time cards are not going to go back to what they were use to. This will just pis people off and has the chance to make tons of American's quit. That would rip a new hole in the price of characters. It would also tank the Timecard market because they would not be selling them for isk. This would mean that ccp would lose even more money because of this change as they lose subscribers and the 30% increase in timecards sure as hell won't help if they lose a ton of players.
Idiot.
No-one has said anything about 'America' here. The fact of the matter is, a good number of us are paying more for the same game, effectively subsidising other players. So the response is the same:
"Boo-hoo"
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
mamolian
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Fallorn
you have to realize that about 40% of the players are from their.
Post your sources.. Because last I checked.. theres very few "strong" mostly american alliances.. -----------
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Ichiwa
Vali Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:31:00 -
[101]
Price hike? Fair enough.
Removing option to buy 30 days? ********.
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Haakelen
United Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:32:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Ichiwa Price hike? Fair enough.
Removing option to buy 30 days? ********.
This is about the only thing I agree with. The price adjustment is not unreasonable given the global economic situations, but 30D timecodes are handy.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:32:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Fallorn Yes, I can see you all hate AMERIKKA....
Hate has nothing to do with it. We just want a fair payment policy where all players pay the same per month of playtime. This is not an unreasonable expectation.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Rarkal
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:32:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Rarkal on 22/05/2008 17:32:32
Originally by: Ichiwa Price hike? Fair enough.
Removing option to buy 30 days? ********.
Same, this sucks
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Xrak
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:33:00 -
[105]
Very disappointing news, and utterly stupid too I think.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:33:00 -
[106]
now they are closing threads typical
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:34:00 -
[107]
Quote: Changes coming for ETC's and Game Time Cards
reported by: CCP Wrangler | 2008.05.22 13:57:19
To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store. Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008.
Where is the original post?
________________________________________
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:34:00 -
[108]
The distribution of subscribers by region and the votersÆ distribution by region is more or less uniform with few exceptions, such as Poland holding 1.88% of the cast votes while being only 0.84% of the eligible voters; Germany and France both have a noticeably large faction of eligible voters, yet fewer than could be expected actually showed up in the booth.
Country % of voters % of subscribers United States 32,81% 37.06% United Kingdom 15,60% 13,92%
We want to thank all of the candidates who threw their hats into the ring and gave it their all. Watching the campaigns unfold was fascinating. We also appreciate those who supported the CSM by voting. There is no way of knowing where this will lead, but weÆre all in it together and the promise of what we can accomplish together is astonishing.
HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:36:00 -
[109]
this page is the 4th page -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:36:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 17:37:07
Originally by: Fallorn HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Being a large group isn't a reason why you should get the game cheaper than the other 63%....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:37:00 -
[111]
Most other games have servers for euro's and us because of stuff like this so that they can keep their prices fair for both people. Euro's all pay the same and us servers all pay the same. CCP doesn't and that is one of the reasons I love the game but it also has them pis on a large group of players for one reason or another. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:38:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Fallorn
The distribution of subscribers by region and the votersÆ distribution by region is more or less uniform with few exceptions, such as Poland holding 1.88% of the cast votes while being only 0.84% of the eligible voters; Germany and France both have a noticeably large faction of eligible voters, yet fewer than could be expected actually showed up in the booth.
Country % of voters % of subscribers United States 32,81% 37.06% United Kingdom 15,60% 13,92%
We want to thank all of the candidates who threw their hats into the ring and gave it their all. Watching the campaigns unfold was fascinating. We also appreciate those who supported the CSM by voting. There is no way of knowing where this will lead, but weÆre all in it together and the promise of what we can accomplish together is astonishing.
HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Now add up all the Europeans and that comes to 35%... your point? --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:38:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Being a large group isn't a reason why you should get the game cheaper than others....
No we just want what we have been getting from the start. By getting rid of 90 day cards we are paying 3 bucks less for 30 days less. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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stupid flanders
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:40:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Kerfira Being a large group isn't a reason why you should get the game cheaper than the other 63%.... [/quote
Well they could have always lowered the cost for Euro's I am sure none of you would open more accounts if that ever happend.
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Caelum Mortuos
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:42:00 -
[115]
I don't see a problem with the price rise. To be honest, as a lot of people have said, it's been a long time coming so we'll just have to accept it.
On the other hand, why get rid of 30/90 day GTCs?? It makes no sense. In the face of rising costs CCP should be giving it's customers more options to fund their account in chunks which suits their lifestyle/wages/whatever, not bottleneck everyone into a single option, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of players are lost not because the game is too expensive, but because the way they have to pay isn't feasible for them.
Bring back 30/90 day GTCs!!!
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Oliver G
G Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:43:00 -
[116]
Dear CCP, I just want to say that I am very disappointed on the decision to remove the 30 and 90 Day GTCs. Raising prices would be OK with me, but removing options that players have is always a bad idea.
A lot of ppl playing EVE are probably around the age of 18. At that age, it is far more comfortable to spend lesser amounts of money more frequently instead of being coerced to spend a lot of money less frequent. I think CCP is moving in a totally wrong direction here; probably losing players.
I hope the newly foundet Council of Interstellar Management can do something to reverse this decision.
A disappointed long-time customer.
Oliver G, Founder and CEO of G Enterprises.
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Grytok
moon7empler Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:43:00 -
[117]
I don't give a $hit for a higher price... thats not a problem for me, but...
WTF CCP? Removing the option to subscribe for 30 days by ETC/GTC is just ****in' terrible.
Having 3 accounts is just awful, when you can't set a LvL 5 skill during an offtime on one of the accounts.
So you really think that this is a smart move?
This will cost you some I'll tell ya .
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:44:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Fallorn
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Being a large group isn't a reason why you should get the game cheaper than others....
No we just want what we have been getting from the start. By getting rid of 90 day cards we are paying 3 bucks less for 30 days less.
So you basically want CCP taking responsibility (and a financial loss) for the disastrous economic policy of your government? This is not the way economics work. You buy a service from CCP, CCP pays their expenses in ISK/Euro, your currency drops against ISK/Euro, CCP has to raise your prices.
CCP would do themselves a big fat favor if they only sold GTC's or other gametime in ONE currency. Then discussions like this wouldn't occur.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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speedek
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:45:00 -
[119]
Edited by: speedek on 22/05/2008 17:45:33 Yes CCP needs more money to fix lag, sure no prob.
But don't remove 30 and 90d GTCS ffs!
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Jakus Orellius
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:47:00 -
[120]
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:47:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Being a large group isn't a reason why you should get the game cheaper than others....
No we just want what we have been getting from the start. By getting rid of 90 day cards we are paying 3 bucks less for 30 days less.
So you basically want CCP taking responsibility (and a financial loss) for the disastrous economic policy of your government? This is not the way economics work. You buy a service from CCP, CCP pays their expenses in ISK/Euro, your currency drops against ISK/Euro, CCP has to raise your prices.
CCP would do themselves a big fat favor if they only sold GTC's or other gametime in ONE currency. Then discussions like this wouldn't occur.
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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MacQueen
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:48:00 -
[122]
Question: If I pay direct to CCP. Will I be able to get 30 day increments of game time? If so, would it continue to be the current price, or would that go up.
Thanks.
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stupid flanders
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:48:00 -
[123]
maybe its all a trick to make us think that the CSM actually has power to change things. CCP does something that will irk a vast majority of thier customers. Those customers then turn to the newly founded CSM for anwsers and change. CCP "caves" to CSM pressure and provides the illusion that they have actual power.
I know its a reach but perhaps it will lighten the mood abit
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Jim Nakamura
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:50:00 -
[124]
Price rise, OK. Massive cut in flexibility, not.
Running multiple accounts, and training a longish skill after your GTC runs out on one while you play the other, now not really a viable option. Either that, or there's going to be a lot of long-assed skills getting trained up to level 5.
Also, this effectively doubles the entry cost for a new customer - most people would agree that a 14-day trial isn't enough to really get into the game. Except now people can't just buy one month's extra playtime to see how much they like it; it's two months or nothing. $35 for two months gametime on something they may not like is a much bigger deal than $15 for one extra month - will almost certainly deter a lot of more casual new players who don't want to dump that much cash upfront.
Great move; make it less likely for new people to stick around, and alienate loads of existing players at the same time...
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:50:00 -
[125]
I do not line it, but, I do not think anything can be changed at this point. So, I just wish CCP would use the extra money they get to improve EVE.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:51:00 -
[126]
Originally by: CCP To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store. Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008.
I'm sorry CCP, the industry standard, is to offer a discount when people buy more than 1 month at a time
Also, I don't think the industry standard for 1 month of MMO gametime is $17.49.
Having to adjust prices 'cause of the weak $ is fine. Just don't wrap it in BS like that... m'kay?
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Ehronn
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:51:00 -
[127]
hope they keep a 30 day option :(
-----------------------
Dysfunctional Playground |
Furnak Tye
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:52:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Furnak Tye on 22/05/2008 17:52:32 Price hike and removing the 30d/90d time codes to try and disguise it, nice! I think CCP think we are all thick/stupid/ret*rded. Although I know people are finding it harder to pay for luxury items, such as Eve, as incomes are squeezed to death by inflation. Removing the 30d time code in counter productive as it increases the "hit" for people, Maybe in Iceland things are hunky dory but I'm pretty sure in the rest of the world Food, Petrol, Energy, Tax and well pretty much everything is increasing massively in price.
A 30d time card costs roughly ú7.80 yet the new 60d time card is going to be around ú17.50 that's what a 12.5%ish increase. For 1x60d compared to 2x30d.
Additionally 30days roughly spreads out to 1 month, making it easier for low earners/non earners such as students to factor it into monthly budgets that can hinge on litteraly pounds/dollars/euros. But the removal of the 30d time code is silly, what's the point? is this because some clever marketing manager thought "oh no can't let the poor saps see the actually price increase, lets disguise it by removing the current products for easy references and create a brand new product, even more cynically done by making is $34.99, the ol .99 Physcology trick to give the impression the price is slightly less that it actually is. Insulting our intelligence because you are trying to introduce a price increase is utter fail.
------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:52:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Fallorn
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn HUR I'm wrong its only 37.06% but still the largest single group.
Being a large group isn't a reason why you should get the game cheaper than others....
No we just want what we have been getting from the start. By getting rid of 90 day cards we are paying 3 bucks less for 30 days less.
So you basically want CCP taking responsibility (and a financial loss) for the disastrous economic policy of your government? This is not the way economics work. You buy a service from CCP, CCP pays their expenses in ISK/Euro, your currency drops against ISK/Euro, CCP has to raise your prices.
CCP would do themselves a big fat favor if they only sold GTC's or other gametime in ONE currency. Then discussions like this wouldn't occur.
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2.
Lol i love americans and their bloated self-image.
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Khan d'barr
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:53:00 -
[130]
The cake, this time, is indeed.. a lie.
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:53:00 -
[131]
Thanks CCP, as if I'm not poor enough already.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:53:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 17:54:29
Originally by: Fallorn
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Fallorn post...
So you basically want CCP taking responsibility (and a financial loss) for the disastrous economic policy of your government? This is not the way economics work. You buy a service from CCP, CCP pays their expenses in ISK/Euro, your currency drops against ISK/Euro, CCP has to raise your prices.
CCP would do themselves a big fat favor if they only sold GTC's or other gametime in ONE currency. Then discussions like this wouldn't occur.
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
I wasn't really criticising the current US government (though your evaluation is probably not far from the mark...), but merely explaining the reason your price has to rise. Unfortunately a direct effect of building up an enormous deficit is that your currency drops in value, meaning all imports (and EVE gametime is an import) seems to go up in price. CCP have just been foolish enough to accept responsibility for currency conversion (by selling their goods in more than one currency) where most other companies lets resellers do that.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:55:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Kerdrak on 22/05/2008 17:54:51 People leaving EVE because the raised price => less lag. Not so bad after all... ________________________________________
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mamolian
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:56:00 -
[134]
Originally by: stupid flanders maybe its all a trick to make us think that the CSM actually has power to change things. CCP does something that will irk a vast majority of thier customers. Those customers then turn to the newly founded CSM for anwsers and change. CCP "caves" to CSM pressure and provides the illusion that they have actual power.
I know its a reach but perhaps it will lighten the mood abit
a++ -----------
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Amarrian Cougar
TalCorp Enterprises Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:57:00 -
[135]
Screw CCP for this. Money grubbing like this is something I would expect from a gaming company like EA, but most definitely not from CCP. Hows about CCP just nerf the crap out of some equipment around June 15th as well, just as a little icing on the cake of fail.
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Claudio Monteverdi
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:58:00 -
[136]
CCP going bankrupt itt.
maybe instead of caressing gently the prices, you could try, i dont know, stop doing coke.
maybe its time to give up on eve. it honestly will not be worth the 2.50 more to lag around in outer space.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Furnak Tye Edited by: Furnak Tye on 22/05/2008 17:52:32 Price hike and removing the 30d/90d time codes to try and disguise it, nice! I think CCP think we are all thick/stupid/ret*rded. Although I know people are finding it harder to pay for luxury items, such as Eve, as incomes are squeezed to death by inflation. Removing the 30d time code in counter productive as it increases the "hit" for people, Maybe in Iceland things are hunky dory but I'm pretty sure in the rest of the world Food, Petrol, Energy, Tax and well pretty much everything is increasing massively in price.
A 30d time card costs roughly ú7.80 yet the new 60d time card is going to be around ú17.50 that's what a 12.5%ish increase. For 1x60d compared to 2x30d. Additionally 30days roughly spreads out to 1 month, making it easier for low earners/non earners such as students to factor it into monthly budgets that can hinge on litteraly pounds/dollars/euros. But the removal of the 30d time code is silly, what's the point? is this because some clever marketing manager thought "oh no can't let the poor saps see the actually price increase, lets disguise it by removing the current products for easy references and create a brand new product, even more cynically done by making is $34.99, the ol .99 Physcology trick to give the impression the price is slightly less that it actually is. Insulting our intelligence because you are trying to introduce a price increase is utter fail.
And a monthly credit card subscriber pays ú12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?
You have nothing to whine about. --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Cheng
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Digital Anarchist Dear CCP, please reconsider this decision.
Having the GTC flexibility is just one of the things that make Eve great.
If you just want to raise prices, do so openly.
What he said, I totally agree. ----
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Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 -
[139]
Well, there goes my second account.
/me sticks Carrier V on. -----
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Gone'Postal
Scoopex The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:02:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2.
lifes a ***** ain't it, BTW Hows Vietnam, I heard you didn't do so well in that one.
If you want to bring RL into this then I don't think the good old US of A has a leg to stand on, Unless it's Clintons middle one.
Questions, Comments, Problems, Please address them to the CSM.. Now CCP Never have to visit the forum. -V8I-
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mamolian
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:02:00 -
[141]
Edited by: mamolian on 22/05/2008 18:02:50
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
And a monthly credit card subscriber pays ú12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?
You have nothing to whine about.
Whos forcing you to pay monthly? The whole point in paying in chunks in advance is to save money.. ? -----------
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Furnak Tye
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:05:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Furnak Tye on 22/05/2008 18:06:02 Edited by: Furnak Tye on 22/05/2008 18:05:39
Originally by: Gabriel Karade And a monthly credit card subscriber pays ú12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?
You have nothing to whine about.
Get off your throne you ****er, Maybe if you weren't such a complete **** you'd have read what I said properly instead of sticking a pole up your bum and acting all holy. I wasn't explicitly complaining about the the price increases but manner that they were introducing it, or am I too subtle for you. ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Angelus Damelon
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:07:00 -
[143]
hell yeah let's raise prices and reduce flexibility at the same time surely this will go over well
:condi:
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:08:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Fallorn
Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
involving ww2 totally out of context...pure internet ♥ -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:08:00 -
[145]
Would be helpful for the CSM if this issue could be raised in the "Assembly hall" area.
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Avalira
Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:10:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Serenity Steele Would be helpful for the CSM if this issue could be raised in the "Assembly hall" area.
It is ^_^
------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF 4.5b
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Craminu
Viking Research and Production
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:16:00 -
[147]
well this sucks
the price goes up in usd.
but what happen when usd currency gets better again? is this is the reason.
+ the actually monthly fee in usd will increase using thoose 60day gtc compared to 2 30day gtc's?
so is the monhtly fee gonna be increased for the euro players also then? Viking Research bpc sale
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Zareph
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:21:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I don't think US politics are appropriate here.
Why? They're the base cause of this.
CCP operate in RL ISK (which I think is bound to the Euro?). The free-falling dollar means CCP is getting less money all the time from their US customers, but their expenses stay the same. Basic economics say that they'll have to raise prices.
The thing is, we're not talking about a just basic run of the mill 'we need more $$ to make things work'.
It's a we're breaking 30d/90d options and giving you one, 60d that is 2x the price of the 30d, and 35% more per day than the 90d. I'm not necessarily upset that I have to work more to make more money to pay for something, I'm upset that there are no 30d and 90d options that have an economy of scale incenting me to buy the 90d option. Now, it's all or nothing.
While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. |
Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:22:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 18:24:19
Originally by: Craminu so is the monhtly fee gonna be increased for the euro players also then?
Why should it? We pay ~Ç13 per month on a subscription (3 month). Americans will now pay ~Ç12.50 per month of GTC (2 month).
Seems fair to me that CCP gets the same amount of money to run their business from each customer, no matter how they pay. They'd be much better off if they charged all customers in the same currency.
Originally by: Zareph I'm upset that there are no 30d and 90d options that have an economy of scale incenting me to buy the 90d option. Now, it's all or nothing.
This I can agree to. The price increase is about time though....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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DRACO selen
Troublemakers Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:25:00 -
[150]
CCP, are you sure this is just to "To simplify the ETC reseller program" or is it rather to "To simplify the ETC reseller program and get more money!"
I'm not realy happy to pay $166 ($55 per acc) more for this game per year .. well with the current system that would mean, that I could creat another account and I would still save money!!!
Would be realy interesting how many subscribers eve currently has.. I would gues sth. about 100,000; wow 100k x $55, what a nice sum of Dollars for simplify the ETC program....
But seriously this means goodby third account
CCP PLZ think again about this, many ppl would close accounts, because this game is just getting too expensive.
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Donald Truman
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:25:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Malcanis
From CCP's point of view, this may not consitute a price rise.
What, you mean CCP doesn't even know what they're charging?
If CCP decides they need to charge US$18-20 a month now to allow for exchange rates I can accept that. But be up front about it guys. Is that really too much to ask??
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:28:00 -
[152]
This hits alot of ppl hard. I pay for my subscriptions for all 3 of my accounts with GTCs, while i doubt im gonna be able to pull myself from the game, im deffinatly going to have to let one of my alt accounts run out, maybey both.
shame too, there were both such nice chars.
well at least ill be doing my part to help with the lag situation
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:29:00 -
[153]
now the americans have to pay the same as what us europeans pay. how is that not fair...or do you expect ccp to lower the cost for europeans?
-------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:32:00 -
[154]
Question: Can I add a couple of GTCs at same time? So i just now buy a couple of 90 day GTCs and add them to my account and i dont care about all of this for a while.
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:38:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Furb Killer Question: Can I add a couple of GTCs at same time? So i just now buy a couple of 90 day GTCs and add them to my account and i dont care about all of this for a while.
Yes I believe you can :) -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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stupid flanders
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:39:00 -
[156]
Edited by: stupid flanders on 22/05/2008 18:39:12
Originally by: Taua Roqa now the americans have to pay the same as what us europeans pay. how is that not fair...or do you expect ccp to lower the cost for europeans?
Just asking becuse i don't know... how much of the price differance between dollar and euro is due to that VAT?
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:40:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Naomi Chiyo Edited by: Naomi Chiyo on 22/05/2008 15:22:22 Those new timecards don t just affect the games flexibility, thy are increasing the price by the fair amount of 35%. Just consider a 90day -GTC being sold for over 50$ cause that would be the equivalent to those new codes. I mean when you ve to adjust to something, and change the length of the codes, WHY INCREASE THE PRICE BY 35% AS WELL ?
I want to know what I'm getting for that extra 35% fee before I'd call it "fair"
As for the dollar vs euro thing, does anyone seriously think CCP will lower the price when (and yes, I say WHEN because these things are cyclical) the dollar is worth more than a euro again?
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:42:00 -
[158]
Keep hoping USD ever becomes something worth again.
Allthough of course i dont like this, it is fair imo.
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Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Carpe Universitas
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:43:00 -
[159]
I'd revise your trinity trailer, CCP
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:44:00 -
[160]
Originally by: stupid flanders Edited by: stupid flanders on 22/05/2008 18:39:12
Originally by: Taua Roqa now the americans have to pay the same as what us europeans pay. how is that not fair...or do you expect ccp to lower the cost for europeans?
Just asking becuse i don't know... how much of the price differance between dollar and euro is due to that VAT?
how would I know I just pay for things if i want them and don't if i don't :P
ok, the tax is around 19% i think that's the average for europe
(and i suspect you do know you just wanted me to say it ;oP) -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Shira Elan
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:46:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Furb Killer Question: Can I add a couple of GTCs at same time? So i just now buy a couple of 90 day GTCs and add them to my account and i dont care about all of this for a while.
Yeah, except because everyone is EXPECTING the chance, prices have already started increasing. 90d GTCs have hit 380-400mil again :( . So no you can't just pretend the news announcement never happened.
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Donald Truman
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:47:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I don't think US politics are appropriate here.
Why? They're the base cause of this.
Feh. Far as I'm concerned currency exchange rates have just become little more than a big d***-measuring contest. I remember when the euro first came out and the dollar was actually worth more, and the howls that went up over there that something needed to be done about that. Guess someone did!
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:48:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 22/05/2008 18:51:30
Industry standand is lowering first time purchase price while not changing monthly fees. Increasing a GTC price and decreasing number of available options is NOT industry standard. Not even EA does that.
If there is any change in monthly fees, they go DOWN, not up, thats the industry standard.
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T4N4TOS
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:51:00 -
[164]
ССР why to not leave at once only a card for 90 days??? Need money or reduction players on EvE???
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:51:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Taua Roqa now the americans have to pay the same as what us europeans pay. how is that not fair...or do you expect ccp to lower the cost for europeans?
when the dollar was worth more than european currency we(Americans) didnt complain. how shallow and shortsighted to think its fair to change the system so Americans are charged more now when we didnt complain when it was better for you
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
MarKand
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:51:00 -
[166]
I think the general idea is to make people use their CC and not shop GTC¦s.
By reducing the "profit" we as players make and instead move that profit to CCP is a good move buisiness view. Not so consumer friendly, but still smart :)
if there is a discount for 3month purchase from CCP directly I do not know, but the lack of 30 and 90 day as TOOLS for flexibility will surely be noticed. I would think that from 30days and on we will se a heavy decrease in second and third accos.
Just my 2c
/M
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Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:52:00 -
[167]
Oh look, CCP can't even bother to post anything about the decision-making involved. Just so you know guys, when you make a major change, you do need to explain it. It's one of those things that goes hand in hand with running a business.
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Lykah Storm
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:52:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker Edited by: Johnathan Walker on 22/05/2008 15:13:41
Quote: Changes coming for ETC's and Game Time Cards
reported by: CCP Wrangler | 2008.05.22 13:57:19
To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store. Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008.
Dear CCP,
As a long time customer paying my own way to play Eve Online, I am both frustrated and disappointed that this decision has come down against the player base. I rather enjoy the flexibility of purchasing a 30-day code or a 90-day code when I wish to customize the length of time my account(s) are active.
Removing both 30 and 90 day options serves to limit player choice and force our decisions. I believe I speak for a fair number of players when I say this: stripping that little bit of control over how long we pay for is unwise.
I believe that simply introducing the 60 day option along with retaining the 30 and 90 day options will not only increase customer choice but may in fact drive higher traffic and sales to the company. As players are given more control and choice over their gaming experience, the possible rewards grow exponentially.
Please seriously re-consider the economic and demographic impact of removing the 30 day and 90 day options. I am one player that prefers to game in 30 day increments, and to decide where I play, when I pay, and how much I pay.
A concerned customer voting with his currency, - JW
-edit- removed dollar comment to appease the smartpants
LOL
How poor are you guys? Can't afford 17.5 dollars per month for internet game? LMAO
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:52:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Zephyrante I will close extra acount will only leave main online and not sure if it will be online too long, there is ppl that cant pay Ç to play the game, paying with isks benefits both CCP and players, this changes will close a lot of extra acounts Bad move CCP, worst even when Lag and desyncs keep going up and up, you ask for more money for a game that doesnt get better.
Really, if an extra ú1.30/month is a serious issue to you, then you shouldn't be playing online games. Go get a bar job or something.
As others have said, this is the first price rise in 5 years, and it's not even a true price rise, but more a reflection of how currency values have changed in that time. Paying 50% more than US players was always a little irksome tbh. (VAT is NOT 50% before anyone raises that damb fool point again).
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:52:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 22/05/2008 18:48:45 Industry standand is lowering first time purchase price while monthly fees stayed the same.
Increasing a GTC price and decreasing number of available options is NOT industry standard. Not even EA does that.
Not even charlatans like SOE are doing that.
Blizzard doesn't go broke charging $14.95 for WOW, and for selling their GTC's at rates commensurate with that. Heck, more than half of WOW's subs are in Asia, where they charge way LESS than $14.95.
So there is no justification whatsoever for CCP to charge more money than everyone else for the same game we had yesterday. Only increasing the value of our subscription (such as allowing us to skill train on all of our characters) would justify an increase.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:56:00 -
[171]
LOL
How poor are you guys? Can't afford 17.5 dollars per month for internet game? LMAO
its called being a full time student, not everyone wants to flip burgers or tend cash registers their whole life. good job putting 2 seconds of thought into your comment then posting tho
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Jakus Orellius
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:57:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Jakus Orellius on 22/05/2008 19:05:20 Edited by: Jakus Orellius on 22/05/2008 18:58:57
Originally by: Lykah Storm LOL
How poor are you guys? Can't afford 17.5 dollars per month for internet game? LMAO
It's called edu-kay-shun.
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Segge Bolled
Dirty Sexy Pilots
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Posted - 2008.05.22 18:58:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Lykah Storm How poor are you guys? Can't afford 17.5 dollars per month for internet game? LMAO
You know, I'm actually starting to get really sick of these comments popping up.
You see, some people have to live on a very tight budget and believe it or not this is potentially going to make it quite harder for them to get by.
If you can't comprehend that fairly simple concept, then you're all cordially invited to go **** yourselves.
/rant off.
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:00:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Zephyrante I will close extra acount will only leave main online and not sure if it will be online too long, there is ppl that cant pay Ç to play the game, paying with isks benefits both CCP and players, this changes will close a lot of extra acounts Bad move CCP, worst even when Lag and desyncs keep going up and up, you ask for more money for a game that doesnt get better.
Really, if an extra ú1.30/month is a serious issue to you, then you shouldn't be playing online games. Go get a bar job or something.
As others have said, this is the first price rise in 5 years, and it's not even a true price rise, but more a reflection of how currency values have changed in that time. Paying 50% more than US players was always a little irksome tbh. (VAT is NOT 50% before anyone raises that damb fool point again).
by "always" do you mean since the recent dive in the dollar ? the game has been out for over 5 years now... how many US players complained of price difference when the game came out.
posting without thinking strikes again
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:00:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Poba
Originally by: Taua Roqa now the americans have to pay the same as what us europeans pay. how is that not fair...or do you expect ccp to lower the cost for europeans?
when the dollar was worth more than european currency we(Americans) didnt complain. how shallow and shortsighted to think its fair to change the system so Americans are charged more now when we didnt complain when it was better for you
in regards to eve i think the last time the dollar was worth more than the euro was sometime in 2002 or something :P
and i'm actually english so I use the pound, which is all over the place lately, so i just get on with things and pay :(
But you have to admit, the dollar is losing value pretty sharpish Vs the euro lately, CCP are surely just responding to this :( -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:01:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Poba
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Zephyrante I will close extra acount will only leave main online and not sure if it will be online too long, there is ppl that cant pay Ç to play the game, paying with isks benefits both CCP and players, this changes will close a lot of extra acounts Bad move CCP, worst even when Lag and desyncs keep going up and up, you ask for more money for a game that doesnt get better.
Really, if an extra ú1.30/month is a serious issue to you, then you shouldn't be playing online games. Go get a bar job or something.
As others have said, this is the first price rise in 5 years, and it's not even a true price rise, but more a reflection of how currency values have changed in that time. Paying 50% more than US players was always a little irksome tbh. (VAT is NOT 50% before anyone raises that damb fool point again).
by "always" do you mean since the recent dive in the dollar ? the game has been out for over 5 years now... how many US players complained of price difference when the game came out.
posting without thinking strikes again
Always = "since I have been playing".
Still, as long we're doing that comparison, what was the relative price difference? Was it as large as it has become now?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Bethesda Vortarhiat
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:03:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2.
lifes a ***** ain't it, BTW Hows Vietnam, I heard you didn't do so well in that one.
If you want to bring RL into this then I don't think the good old US of A has a leg to stand on, Unless it's Clintons middle one.
Ask the French, they were there before us... and for Iraq, ask the British, they were there before us too.
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Jakus Orellius
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:05:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Bethesda Vortarhiat
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2.
lifes a ***** ain't it, BTW Hows Vietnam, I heard you didn't do so well in that one.
If you want to bring RL into this then I don't think the good old US of A has a leg to stand on, Unless it's Clintons middle one.
Ask the French, they were there before us... and for Iraq, ask the British, they were there before us too.
What about Afghanistan. Pity you gave them all those weapons eh?
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Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:05:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Bethesda Vortarhiat
Originally by: Gone'Postal
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2.
lifes a ***** ain't it, BTW Hows Vietnam, I heard you didn't do so well in that one.
If you want to bring RL into this then I don't think the good old US of A has a leg to stand on, Unless it's Clintons middle one.
Ask the French, they were there before us... and for Iraq, ask the British, they were there before us too.
heh we invented iraq.
welp. -------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Scopa Outta
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:08:00 -
[180]
What I find most amusing here is all this chatter about fairness... the very GAME we play isn't even 'fair', and yet everyone expects real life to somehow magically be fair? You people really are living in a dreamworld... I expected better of eve players... but then again maybe this is only the vocal minority that the rest of us would be better off without anyway...
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:09:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Poba on 22/05/2008 19:09:13 LOL ok i have to get one more post in b4 this off topic thread gets locked
seriously... people are talking about vietnam and Afgan weapons... this thread is about the change in price of time cards...good thing ppl can read and understand the topic
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:09:00 -
[182]
One wonders what the dollar would do vs the euro if the US taxpayer didn't by and large pay for the Continent's defense? That's an enormous drain on our economy. Why should we still do it anyway, it's not like anyone appreciates it. I wish my country would look after itself only for a change.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Taua Roqa
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:10:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Scopa Outta What I find most amusing here is all this chatter about fairness... the very GAME we play isn't even 'fair', and yet everyone expects real life to somehow magically be fair? You people really are living in a dreamworld... I expected better of eve players... but then again maybe this is only the vocal minority that the rest of us would be better off without anyway...
it's a bit of a sensitive issue imho, since some people really do live to a very tight budget...and am sure many of us have been there.
-------------------------------------------- [IMAGE REMOVED]
Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. My I/Q Ration!!!11
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:15:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Malcanis on 22/05/2008 19:16:45
Originally by: Jack Gilligan One wonders what the dollar would do vs the euro if the US taxpayer didn't by and large pay for the Continent's defense? That's an enormous drain on our economy. Why should we still do it anyway, it's not like anyone appreciates it. I wish my country would look after itself only for a change.
Edit: facts.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 -
[185]
this is funny, they just locked all the other on topic threads about ccp and the 30 day gtc change, and threw us into the offtopic thread:-P
bad move ccp, let us keep buying our 30 gtc!! |
Pistonbroke
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:20:00 -
[186]
I don't think there can be any denying that the 35% increase is a bit of a kick in the pants, whether or not you are in the US.
I liked one of the other posters suggestion that as a European company, they should seek payment in Euros, wherever the buyer is purchasing from - this would mean that their income is stabilized, the reason that many players started paying in US bucks was because it offered better value. Saying that it's normalized it against Eurocosts does not mean that Euro players are unaffected.
On a related, but slightly different subject, I suspect that the 'rationalization' to 60 day GTCs has more to do with people abusing "account expired" 30 day skill training than it has to do with industry standards.
I'll certainly drop an account now.... nevertheless CCP will have the last laugh as I pay to have the trained character on it moved to my main account.
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Sarin Adler
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:22:00 -
[187]
About the price rise, forget it. They probably have studied how many accounts will be closed and the exchange it's worth it: won't happen. Also putting GTC resellers out of game means more money for them, too.
You can cry loud, it's your right, but you won't effect this is anyway, so you choose how to lose yourtime.
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Divad Ginleek
Gateway Industries House of Mercury
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:22:00 -
[188]
::is glad he paid 6 months in advance with CC:: ::insert witty signature here:: |
Greenbolt
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:23:00 -
[189]
Ill go back on topic to and add my voice.
Want to change prices? Ok that sucks but thats real world for ya..
I can even see streamlining from 30,50,90,100 (the 4 currently available) to 30,60,90
but to remove options from customers
ehh..sux. Bad Idea. As a consumer I want more options..not less.
(Imagine when they get the bug to say instead of subscribing in 30d,60d,1 year intervals etc on pay by credit card they say ok..you can only pay 60 days at a time..that should be intresting response too). --------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:24:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Sarin Adler About the price rise, forget it. They probably have studied how many accounts will be closed and the exchange it's worth it: won't happen. Also putting GTC resellers out of game means more money for them, too.
You can cry loud, it's your right, but you won't effect this is anyway, so you choose how to lose yourtime.
One wonders if this is their lag "solution".
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
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Quaxtl
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:26:00 -
[191]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
Go here and register your disgruntlment.
And for the record, when it comes to WW2 and 'saving governments' you dont have a leg to stand on
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Pistonbroke
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:28:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
One wonders if this is their lag "solution".
If they have finally accepted that they can't do it with improved coding, improved software, elimination of bookmarks, cans and other such initiatives, then yeah, it should help.
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Ballistic CEO
The Ballistic Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:29:00 -
[193]
Raise price, keep 30, 60 and 90 day options then stop skills training on accounts with expired subs.
seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:34:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Ballistic CEO Raise price, keep 30, 60 and 90 day options then stop skills training on accounts with expired subs.
seems pretty straightforward to me.
Problem with this is that the end result will be higher prices in € too. And all due to weak dollar compared to euro... It's just a grab for more money and nothing else. An insulting grab for money at that.
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Akelorian
The first genesis Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:37:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.
Ignorant American
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:43:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.
Ignorant American
Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Natsume Chidori
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:47:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Una D
Originally by: Ballistic CEO Raise price, keep 30, 60 and 90 day options then stop skills training on accounts with expired subs.
seems pretty straightforward to me.
Problem with this is that the end result will be higher prices in Ç too. And all due to weak dollar compared to euro... It's just a grab for more money and nothing else. An insulting grab for money at that.
You mean a grab for the same money before the dollar slump?
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Akelorian
The first genesis Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Malcanis
Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.
Least mine was more fact driven then his :)
Also would like to say keep 30/90d Cards, implement the 60 days, and increase the price accordingly so 90d is no longer $38, :)
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TillyTee
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 -
[199]
Hey guys don't worry, all the money will be used to fund CCP's new MMO that noone gives a crap about
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Captain Detech
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:48:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Captain Detech on 22/05/2008 19:48:48
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.
Ignorant American
Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.
True, but theres something to be said for a country sitting by and watching for 3 years, and I'm not just talking about the fighting...
Anyhow on topic, bad choice that will alienate a lot of players and scare off potential subscribers.
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Bonds Visio
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:53:00 -
[201]
I hate to ask, but did WoW prices go up or can I still play that for $15 a month? Entertainment is entertainment. Doesn't really matter what company provides it.
Is Eve better than WoW? Of course. Is it cheaper? Now it is, yes (as far as GTCs are concerned).
The ultimate question for everyone should be, are you getting what you pay for? Is the extra $2.50 a month that Eve costs over WoW worth it to you?
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HellSpeed
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:01:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Red Skelton Dont care if it costs more. I do want 30 or 90 day choices, however.
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R0ot
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:01:00 -
[203]
Well ill be closing two accounts over this. Horrible decision CCP ------------------------------------------------------------------
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:04:00 -
[204]
@r00t, proof or stfu.
Or stfu anyway.
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Civilii
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:05:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Bonds Visio The ultimate question for everyone should be, are you getting what you pay for? Is the extra $2.50 a month that Eve costs over WoW worth it to you?
Hell yes. I'm surprised to see so many people claiming to cancel accounts. I suspect it is a knee jerk reaction and nothing will come of it...
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Dataios
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:05:00 -
[206]
Has it occurred to anyone that world economics is not even remotely an issue? They have costs in yuan, euros, isk, and usd, so saying that all of a sudden the dollar is worth less doesn't really hold water because now their usd-denominated expenses are also less. True, maybe the relative magnitudes of the costs and revenues in various currencies don't match up perfectly (that is, maybe more revenue is dollar denominated than expenses). In all likelihood, ccp has higher costs in china than they have revenue, so pointing at any one country's economy and saying that's why my gtc price has gone up is incredibly narrow minded and simplistic. That these things happen is the very reason multinationals diversify their interests across multiple economies and currencies...
In a nutshell, international economics is never about just one country.. it's about the relationship between countries, so it could just as easily be a strong-euro policy on the part of the ECB as it is a weak-dollar policy on the part of the US Federal Reserve. The reality is that it's likely a combination of both, as the major world central banks do actually work together.
I'm inclined to believe that the change was motivated by people letting their gtc-fueled accounts lapse while training super long level 5's and switching to an alt in the interim.. As an example, CCP loses roughly $15 +/- each time someone does this to train a BS skill from 4 to 5. I'm sure it adds up. So it makes sense to me to add a "surcharge" to the cost of a GTC, to try to recover this lost revenue (lost because a service, even if pared down compared to an active account, is still being provided).
I would be very surprised if this was followed by a change in the CC subscription rates. And if there isn't a change to CC subscription rates, then all those people saying this is due to international economics will have been proven wrong. The problem with doing so is that $15 is the currently market rate for an MMO.. true, someone needs to be the first to forge ahead, but during a time of economic hardship is not likely to be a wise time to do so (putting gas in my car, which is now about $60-$65/tank or the equivalent of about 8 eve subscriptions per month, comes before eve...).
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Mystri
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:09:00 -
[207]
tldr, sorry if someone has already posted a breakdown.
ISK-EUR= ISK devalued by 38.1% in the past year (1 ISK-->Ç0.008) ISK-USD= ISK devalued by 17% in the past year (1 ISK-->$0.013) USD-EUR= USD devalued by 17.5% in the past year (Ç1-->$0.634)
European subs ~36% approx. US subs 37%
Rough calculations...
European subs:
200,000 x 36% = 72,000 subs x Ç14.95 = Ç1,076,400 p/m x 12 months = Ç12,916,800 per annum
- --( x $1.5755)--> $20,350,418 per annum
- --( x 115.04 ISK)--> 1,485,948,672 ISK per annum
US subs:
200,000 x 37% = 74,000 subs x $14.95 = $1,106,300 p/m x 12 months = $13,275,600 per annum
- --( x Ç0.634)--> Ç8,416,730 per annum
- --( x 73.01 ISK)--> 969,251,556 ISK per annum
Even though there are more subscriptions (in this rough calculation) from the US, CCP would lose + billion ISK compared to the European subscriptions. If a portion of the current European subscribers are using GTC's paid in USD, then income would be further reduced. Remember, CCP operate out of Iceland and their income is in (converted) ISK.
The best option would be to stop more hemorrhaging of income through Euro --> USD GTC sales by increasing GTC USD price. CCP would also need to increase the number of subscriptions to offset any ISK devaluation. No, i'm not an economist, but i'm sure one will come along a shoot me down.
/puts box of crayons away
Mystri |
Dataios
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:11:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Furb Killer Dollar expenses of CCP are far less then other currencies...
Now that CCP has merged with White Wolf (HQ'd in Atlanta)? Don't be so sure.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:11:00 -
[209]
Originally by: mamolian Edited by: mamolian on 22/05/2008 18:02:50
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
And a monthly credit card subscriber pays ú12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?
You have nothing to whine about.
Whos forcing you to pay monthly? The whole point in paying in chunks in advance is to save money.. ? I was comparing like for like, you know 30 days = 1 month?... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:12:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 22/05/2008 20:15:24
Originally by: Furnak Tye Edited by: Furnak Tye on 22/05/2008 18:06:11
Originally by: Gabriel Karade And a monthly credit card subscriber pays ú12.07. So I ask I have to ask, why should I be subsidising YOUR game time?
You have nothing to whine about.
Get off your throne you ****er, Maybe if you weren't such a complete **** you'd have read what I said properly instead of sticking a pole up your bum and acting all holy. I wasn't explicitly complaining about the the price increases but manner that they were introducing it, or am I too subtle for you.
Prices rises that only affect people who are already getting the game for cheap nobhead...
Oh and lets just be clear, those playing the GTC game to avoid VAT (tax evasion 4tw eh? ) will still be getting the game cheap compared to the subscribers... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
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XXJackXX
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:13:00 -
[211]
Make the price of 60 more useable or kepp 30 or 90day GTC. and everyone saying the stop buying GTC and pay your money STFU there is some people cant efford to pay real money to game.
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Haakelen
United Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:14:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Mystri Good Post
Thanks for that, as it illustrates the situation relatively well.
Originally by: Mystri No, i'm not an economist, but i'm sure one will come along a shoot me down.
I'm sure some serious internet economist will flame you eventually don't lose hope yet .
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Metangela Usafa
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:18:00 -
[213]
I have run 3 accounts for over a year and just started a 4th 2 months ago. I was figuring on paying 1/2 with ISK and 1/2 with REAL money. I will play until they run out of game time, at which point I will decide which accounts, if any, I keep active. This is a pretty hefty price bump and what kinda ticks me off is they didn't even have the nads to say "We have to raise the price." Back doored us.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:18:00 -
[214]
Originally by: XXJackXX Make the price of 60 more useable or kepp 30 or 90day GTC. and everyone saying the stop buying GTC and pay your money STFU there is some people cant efford to pay real money to game.
Since when is this a charity?
I don't have a problem with people buying GTC for isk, I have a problem with the person who bought it for cash getting a much better deal than a subscriber, and then having the audacity to ***** and moan here when CCP brings the prices more inline... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Virtuozzo
IVC Consortium Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:19:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker I rather enjoy the flexibility of purchasing a 30-day code or a 90-day code when I wish to customize the length of time my account(s) are active.
Doh, that's the thing. No more account hopping between long skills, but more continuous subscriber behaviour. Your flexibility cuts into their projections.
CAOD FTW.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:23:00 -
[216]
We're losing sight of the primary issue here.
Simplifying the ETC reseller program does not mean increasing the price.
I appreciate honesty, I do not appreciate having a price hike attempt to sneak past me in a way that belittles my intelligence.
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Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:34:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf We're losing sight of the primary issue here.
Simplifying the ETC reseller program does not mean increasing the price.
I appreciate honesty, I do not appreciate having a price hike attempt to sneak past me in a way that belittles my intelligence.
Why were ETC resellers ever a problem? As long as they don't scam (which they shouldn't...they rely on repeat business) they provide a steady supply of GTCs. I don't see how they hurt anyone...they ensure there isn't a crazy GTC shortage like there is now...because stupid sellers refuse to sell at the market price and instead foolishly sell at below market...so you have to spend ALL DAY camping the timecodes forums to get a GTC.
I don't see how there was anything sneaky here. They are giving you less time for slightly more money, so its an obvious price hike.
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Alara Giovarez
Midnight Captains
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:37:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf We're losing sight of the primary issue here.
Simplifying the ETC reseller program does not mean increasing the price.
I appreciate honesty, I do not appreciate having a price hike attempt to sneak past me in a way that belittles my intelligence.
Agreed, exactly that is the point. I liked cheap $-GTC's, but hey, I can see CCP will not like it and up the prices. If the post had contained an addition along the lines of
"At the same time, due to the fact that the dollar lost much value in the last years and the fact many customers from all countries buy GTCs, we need to raise the price to mirror those changes."
all would have been well. But the sneaking and belitteling our intelligence bit is simply insulting, and that is why I personally am quite upset about this.
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:38:00 -
[219]
And as is ccp's tradition, 8 pages of posts and ccp comments are a beacon of absence as usual... well we'll see what happens when Jumpgate Evolution hits the stores. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:42:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade Prices rises that only affect people who are already getting the game for cheap nobhead...
Oh and lets just be clear, those playing the GTC game to avoid VAT (tax evasion 4tw eh? ) will still be getting the game cheap compared to the subscribers...
So no, I don't give a damn how they introduced the rises, only that muppets whining here now, were getting it cheap and have the audacity to complain the playing field is getting levelled...
If anyone was previously paying for the game in Euros (via the recurring credit card sub method), they are either 1) stupid or 2) lazy. They are paying more for something when for the same amount of effort (buying GTCs for USD) they could get it for less.
People are complaining because many people support a 3rd or 4th or 5th account with GTCs. Now this will be 50% more expensive. This is a pretty big change. I don't know why you are so offended when people complain about rising prices....wouldn't you get annoyed if EVE changed its monthly fee from 15/month to 22.50/month?
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Aclyn Seriy
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:43:00 -
[221]
Edited by: Aclyn Seriy on 22/05/2008 20:45:22 ignore me. Im just annoyed at being forced to pay and play for the amount of time that CCP see's fit, rather than me, the customer. what do i know though eh? its only the customers that pay your wages
Originally by: techzer0 I'm the failboat captain
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Lt Widowmaker
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:44:00 -
[222]
It isn't CCP's fault that the Dollar hit the fan. Now EVE costs about the same as the other monthly subscription games. (Please for gods sake use this newly found $úÇ to pay for new servers or something to counter the lag).
I have to admit though that the timing isn't great on CCP's part, as I for one was planning to start a new FW account, but obviously I wasn't expecting to be paying for my current 2 account and another, making 3 accounts that would cost the same as 4 previously. Also, just thought IÆd mention also that CCP should really open up maestro purchasing system, as I know a lot of people cannot use the EVE store because of this limitation, (no strategic map makes me a saaad panda). This may get more cash coming your way.
PS. with this extra money, maybe CCP could pay for more GMs to make an appearance in threads like this, stating the facts and counter arguing...you know to defend themselves. Otherwise the community will just get angry and circle jerk
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Johnny Gurkha
Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:44:00 -
[223]
From a player perspective there is nothing wrong with 30 or 90 day ones as they stand, I buy a 30 day when I'm short of cash and a 90 day when I'm ok... a 60 day card as the previous poster pointed out is less time for more money. I'm scrapping my 3rd account immediately, I can live with low SP alt's on the scrapheap and my 2nd accounts main will be getting sold within the next month or two - I'll live with a Reaper pilot for scouting... not often I say this but screw you CCP - your game isn't THAT good
MCI Recruitment |
Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:50:00 -
[224]
The average cost of the computer people are playing on is at least 1000 dollar. And a few dollars extra per month is too much for you to handle?
I dont like it either. I also dont like they removed 90 day GTC (never used 30 day personally). I also dont want to pay more for the same. But I am not acting like a little child and whining about it like the world ended.
If you have to quit an account because you cant afford it with higher prices, you should have done that a long time ago because then you are using way too much of your money on a MMORPG. If you quit an account because you just dont like it, you are making empty threats because you wont quit your account.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:50:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Shakuul
Originally by: Gabriel Karade Prices rises that only affect people who are already getting the game for cheap nobhead...
Oh and lets just be clear, those playing the GTC game to avoid VAT (tax evasion 4tw eh? ) will still be getting the game cheap compared to the subscribers...
So no, I don't give a damn how they introduced the rises, only that muppets whining here now, were getting it cheap and have the audacity to complain the playing field is getting levelled...
If anyone was previously paying for the game in Euros (via the recurring credit card sub method), they are either 1) stupid or 2) lazy. They are paying more for something when for the same amount of effort (buying GTCs for USD) they could get it for less.
People are complaining because many people support a 3rd or 4th or 5th account with GTCs. Now this will be 50% more expensive. This is a pretty big change. I don't know why you are so offended when people complain about rising prices....wouldn't you get annoyed if EVE changed its monthly fee from 15/month to 22.50/month?
Or 3) honest.
Dress it up all you want, it's playing the system to avoid VAT, so I don't see how people have a leg to stand on complaining about this loop-hole being closed. --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Gamer4liff
Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:01:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 22/05/2008 21:03:36 I only buy 90 day cards, so I'm slightly annoyed that it will take more transactions now. But I suppose it's fine so long as the rate doesn't change.
EDIT: Going by the Shattered Crystal prices it appears they are indeed charging us who buy 90 day GTCs (with isk) more than before with this new system, how annoying!
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Brzhk
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:10:00 -
[227]
looks like CCP makes a wrong asumption : every one has only one account so we will win more money..
weak dollar didn't made me pay less: it made me able to afford multiple accounts.
i will have to close some of them now, as a lot of other ppl i guess :/
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:10:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 22/05/2008 21:11:09
Originally by: Shakuul I don't see how there was anything sneaky here. They are giving you less time for slightly more money, so its an obvious price hike.
"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC)"
!=
"For reasons X, Y, and Z we are increasing ETC and GTC prices"
No matter how valid reasons X, Y, and Z may be they haven't given them. Worse they have used what could be described as "flowery jargon" to cover it in a way that would make any Omni Consumer Products exec proud.
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ghost st
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:15:00 -
[229]
I am going to have to decide if i want to keep my eve sub going. 30d gtcs worked fine for me because sometime i an unable to play the game. And i could just pay for the months i could actually play.
Paying a little extra isalright, the thing i dont like about it is that its forcing me to buy 2 months worth of time when i usually only play 1. ( I am a truck driver and i spend about every other month on the road, so dont have time play eve) or at least give us the option to suspend the account for a month so our time isnt ticking away while we cant play
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:16:00 -
[230]
Originally by: ghost st I am going to have to decide if i want to keep my eve sub going. 30d gtcs worked fine for me because sometime i an unable to play the game. And i could just pay for the months i could actually play.
Paying a little extra isalright, the thing i dont like about it is that its forcing me to buy 2 months worth of time when i usually only play 1. ( I am a truck driver and i spend about every other month on the road, so dont have time play eve) or at least give us the option to suspend the account for a month so our time isnt ticking away while we cant play
You must get lots of lvl 5 skills done. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:31:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Mystri tldr, sorry if someone has already posted a breakdown.
ISK-EUR= ISK devalued by 38.1% in the past year (1 ISK-->Ç0.008) ISK-USD= ISK devalued by 17% in the past year (1 ISK-->$0.013) USD-EUR= USD devalued by 17.5% in the past year (Ç1-->$0.634)
European subs ~36% approx. US subs 37%
Rough calculations...
European subs:
200,000 x 36% = 72,000 subs x Ç14.95 = Ç1,076,400 p/m x 12 months = Ç12,916,800 per annum
- --( x $1.5755)--> $20,350,418 per annum
- --( x 115.04 ISK)--> 1,485,948,672 ISK per annum
US subs:
200,000 x 37% = 74,000 subs x $14.95 = $1,106,300 p/m x 12 months = $13,275,600 per annum
- --( x Ç0.634)--> Ç8,416,730 per annum
- --( x 73.01 ISK)--> 969,251,556 ISK per annum
Even though there are more subscriptions (in this rough calculation) from the US, CCP would lose + billion ISK compared to the European subscriptions. If a portion of the current European subscribers are using GTC's paid in USD, then income would be further reduced. Remember, CCP operate out of Iceland and their income is in (converted) ISK.
The best option would be to stop more hemorrhaging of income through Euro --> USD GTC sales by increasing GTC USD price. CCP would also need to increase the number of subscriptions to offset any ISK devaluation. No, i'm not an economist, but i'm sure one will come along a shoot me down.
/puts box of crayons away
Such a good post and no one is talking about it.
I am happy as I pay in US dollars and am getting sick of all the training people do with off-lined accounts. Also less people means less lag
Originally by: Radcjk PvP in eve can be sort of rough. It's closer to bad sex. Usually an hour of two of foreplay followed by 5 minutes of disappointment. And the surprise at the end.
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Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:38:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade Or 3) honest. Dress it up all you want, it's playing the system to avoid VAT, so I don't see how people have a leg to stand on complaining about this loop-hole being closed.
CCP isn't closing a VAT loophole, they are just increasing the USD price of tax dollars. I don't see how voluntarily giving more money to your government when you aren't legally obligated to makes you "honest."
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
... No matter how valid reasons X, Y, and Z may be they haven't given them. Worse they have used what could be described as "flowery jargon" to cover it in a way that would make any Omni Consumer Products exec proud.
Ah, thats what you meant. Yeah I guess they did dress it up a lot.
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
...
Such a good post and no one is talking about it.
I am happy as I pay in US dollars and am getting sick of all the training people do with off-lined accounts. Also less people means less lag
It's an excellent explanation of the business reasons CCP has to increase prices, people are just complaining that they have to pay more.
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Gamer4liff
Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:39:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 22/05/2008 21:11:09
Originally by: Shakuul I don't see how there was anything sneaky here. They are giving you less time for slightly more money, so its an obvious price hike.
"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC)"
!=
"For reasons X, Y, and Z we are increasing ETC and GTC prices"
So CCP, how much did it cost to have Hillery Clinton write this press release?
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Solsson
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:43:00 -
[234]
This argument over the price increase is lame.
(1) If you're going to quit, then just do so, and don't tell us that you are going to. (2) This has happened with other MMO's before such as Planetside
The main concern I have is that with 30 days, I could take a few days break and resubscribe. I'm still going to play this game as far as I know, but I'm just going to be out of more money if half way into the subscription I find I am no longer interested in EVE.
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:46:00 -
[235]
Defenders of the GTC system typically say "at least the money goes to CCP" Yes indeed. So why are you complaining now ?
Oh wait , it's getting too expensive ? Why do you care if you're using ISK to pay for your accounts... makes no sense to threaten closing them.
Unless you're selling GTCs for ISK. Must be frustrating to see the gap between legal and illegal ISK prices widen even more. Tempted to directly buy ISK , but you fear the banstick and losing your precious investments. Time to whine on the forums , eh ?
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Saju Somtaaw
Amarrian Religious Reformation Society Exalted
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:02:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.
Ignorant American
Heres an interesting historical tidbit for you, a little piece of legisation called the Land Lease Act provided warships, planes, and other assorted war material to GB and Russia. Also, quite a few American pilots helped both the British and the Chinese before we got dragged into the war.
On the topic at hand, I pay mainly with GTCs as they are easier to factor into my budget as a college student. While I don't like the change I'll probably be keeping both my counts subscribed, though I might try and grab a pair of 90days for em before they run out. ---- --- --- My views don't represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
Jernau Riggs
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:08:00 -
[237]
sucks a bit really i'm european and used to buy 90 day game time codes
shattered crystel sold them for $38.85 divide that by 90 days = $0.43 per day x that by 60 days = $25.9 and ccp's new price is ú34.99 for 60 days so thats a $9.09 price increase per 60 days.
Thats an extra $54.54 price increase per year.
Compare that to the $155.4 we were paying per year and thats a 35% price increase.
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Clone 231C
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:13:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Clone 231C on 22/05/2008 22:15:12
Originally by: Captain Detech Edited by: Captain Detech on 22/05/2008 19:48:48
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.
Ignorant American
Your post was even more ignorant than his. Please keep this nonsense out of this forum.
True, but theres something to be said for a country sitting by and watching for 3 years, and I'm not just talking about the fighting...
Anyhow on topic, bad choice that will alienate a lot of players and scare off potential subscribers.
HMM.... I wonder what continent spewed fourth the people who wiped out the Aztecs, enslaved half of the world, and killed people on multiple occasions for their imaginary friend. Europeans have no leg to stand on from a humanitarian view, your history is full of brutality, and when mobility permitted it, you brought your violence to the rest of the world. Colonization, slavery, species eradication, these are Europe's gifts to the world.
The ONLY way that most Britains feel good about themselves is to point out other's flaws. Smile and say hi to Gandhi for me, or South Africa (Africa in general) or the Philippines, or ect.......
Anyway, CCP should just bite the bit and say we are raising prices for americans because your dollar sucks. This stealth 60 day time code affair makes them look like microsoft imho.
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:26:00 -
[239]
Funny thing now they just said that the other prices are not going up so they are just doing this to **** off people who use time cards. Americans can still pay $15 but we have to do it directly which is a pain in the rear. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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June K'aral
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:28:00 -
[240]
blagh, this is not going to end well I think .
Commenting on the news post. What industry standard?! The only 2 MMO's I can see that use just 60 day cards is WOW and LOTRO. Sony uses 30 and 90-day card system, NCSoft(City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa,...) has 15, 30, 60-day cards. Why then was the choice made of going with a system that is clearly in the minority? Why not give the players the choice? Wouldn't a system similar to NCSoft's be better? Where you'd have a 30 day for 20$(19.99$), 60 day for 30$(29.99$) and a 90 day for 40(or 38.85$ whatever the current price is). Lack of options could very well drive players away...
At a guess, it will end up with subs going up as well... Will sub costs finnally be made sensible and euro not have to pay more then US before VAT? 15$ and 15Ç for the same thing is crap.
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Scopa Outta
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:35:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Faye Valerii CCP isn't raising prices, it's dollar-types who've been paying less and less... Don't forget CCP is an Icelandic company, and most of their costs are paid in kr÷ner (wages) and pounds (datacenter is in London). Compared to those currencies the dollar is worth crap these days.
And yeah, as a savvy Euro I've been using the strength of my currency to buy GTC's in dollars, thus saving a not totally unnoticable amount of money.
So Americans, go take a **** on Alan Greenspan and his successor : )
Umm, no, the only people that have been paying less are non-US people that are paid in a foreign currency that has been appreciating against the dollar. American salaries certainly haven't been rising to compensate for the dollar's lower buying power abroad. Americans haven't been paying less as a % of their income as the value of the dollar has fallen.
The only people that have been making out well with this scenario are britons, europeans, australians, asians, etc etc that convert their strengthening currency to dollars and buy usd-priced gtcs--for them the price of an eve subscription has been falling for years. So why you non-US people think Americans have been getting some kind of "deal" is beyond me, especially when you're buying usd-denominated gtcs for the same price we can...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:39:00 -
[242]
I find my monthly subscription price unchanged. *shrug*. Colour me apathetic about this. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:40:00 -
[243]
Originally by: June K'aral
The only 2 MMO's I can see that use just 60 day cards is WOW and LOTRO.
Yeah, but to be fair, have you _seen_ how much market share WOW has? That's in industry standard right there. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:44:00 -
[244]
lol @ isk buyer tears
reign of terror griefmatic |
Kalintos Tyl
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:47:00 -
[245]
well alt will train exhumers to 5 i think. and then go on sale i think. You just dumped my second account.
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theteck
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:47:00 -
[246]
need to open a US branch and the problem its gone?
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Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:51:00 -
[247]
Agreed.
Price rise, understandable as over time, almost everything costs more.
Taking away all flexibility for subscription duration by removing 30 and 90 day options.. bad.
Only option is to start screaming at their excuse for customer support and see if the flexibility can be kept while incorporating the price rise, assuming it's necessry. -
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:52:00 -
[248]
What is this?
I am considering closing several alt accounts which generated money for CCP before, as now I am expected to pay for longer amounts of time in one go, and for a higher price.
CCP, this will not make you more money, it will lose you it.
What are these 'industry standards'? I thought just about every subscription based game had 1 month increments available, in addition to longer ones. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
THEGREAT LOBO
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:53:00 -
[249]
I don't care about a price rise, i just care about not being able to buy 30 days or 90 day codes. Why can't we have all 3 ?
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Hitoshi Yamadori
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:53:00 -
[250]
Think thats couse of the dollar-euro exchange course. And as they only talk about dollar prices and not euros. They only will change prices of the GTCs bought in dollar. So no change for europeans.
And as stated, CCP will not change the subscription prices. So also no changes here.
Quote: This change will not affect other payment options such as credit cards etc.
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Slez
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:00:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Toolbert At this point, CCP might aswell add in a life time subscription option. I would seriously consider it now. Hellgate London, and Lord of the Rings both offer these options for $150 for one account. I think the idea is awesome and I would be willing to pay that high but one time fee to not have to worry about time cards and monthly fee increases ever again.
They offer lifetime sub, because people quit after the first month when the new game appeal wears off and you realize how stupid and repetitive both games are. -----------
Originally by: Wet Ferret If you really want to give CCP the finger you'll send your stuff to an ISK seller
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:05:00 -
[252]
Published subscription rates are: 1 Month, €14.95 = 23.5119USD (14.95EUR/month) 3 Month, €38.85 = 61.0995USD (12.95EUR/month) 6 Month, €71.70 = 112.774USD (11.95EUR/month) 12 Months, €131.40 = 206.674USD. (10.95EUR/month)
60 day codes, at $34.99 is 22.25EUR. Or 11.125EUR/month. E.g. Cheaper than every regularly paying customer who's not paying annually. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Marine HK4861
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:07:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Shakuul I don't see how voluntarily giving more money to your government when you aren't legally obligated to makes you "honest."
Except you are. It's called VAT Evasion.
And the HM R&C version.
Whether the government can be bother to enforce it every time on individual $15 USD transactions is their choice.
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Dagejoor
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:10:00 -
[254]
Oh dear, this is defiantly the wrong way to do things. one of the great things with eve is the amount of choice and freedom the players get when it comes to subscriptions and play time.
Removing the 30 day and 90 day time cards is a terrible idea. especially the 30 day option!
I hope you guys come to your senses. ---------- OcUK - Admiral - OcPS - Director - TxSI - Commander
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Marine HK4861
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:13:00 -
[255]
Well it looks like somebody at CCP is taking note of this thread:
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Since there seems to have been some misunderstanding regarding the coming changes for EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) we wish to clarify that the change does not affect any other payment options for EVE Online. They will remain the same as before, this only affects ETC's and GTC's.
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Slez
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:14:00 -
[256]
If you gotta raise price, fine. Not your fault really.
But getting rid of 30 days is just moronic. Losing all these accounts makes up for whatever reason was pulled out of someones ass for it? -----------
Originally by: Wet Ferret If you really want to give CCP the finger you'll send your stuff to an ISK seller
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Brutama
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:24:00 -
[257]
My 2 accounts: old 30days (2xETC) -> 29,90$ or 19,55Ç old 60days (4xETC) -> 59,80$ or 39,08Ç new 60days (2xETC) -> 69,98$ or 45,74Ç (1Ç=1,53$)
Im not worrying about the 10$/7Ç more for 2 month... it's the fact that i don't want to pay for time that i'm not using (work, holiday, ...)!
Why is there no option to freeze the acount with e.g 1 week minimum-freeze-time?
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okcerg
Fellowship of The Outer Ring
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:30:00 -
[258]
I think this change is a huge kick in the face of european players buying 30d US GTC:
- If flexibility is more important than the price, you'll have to pay max price with CC subscription: 15Ç. - If price does matter, you'll keep buying GTC in dollars, but you'll lose some flexibility with the 60d card.
So in fact it's VERY simple: cheap + flexible is over. And that sounds fair to be honnest...
Well now, because of RL issues, flexibility is right now the most important thing, and the Uncle Sam GTC's allowed me to afford 2 accounts for 19Ç per 30 days of playtime. 15 days from now it will be 30Ç to keep that flexibility I need. Unfortunately I can't afford that now. So I'm really looking forward a CCP reaction on the forums, and if this is confirmed I will invest in a character transfer and close my alt account. I will be back to a "normal" playstyle, 1 account at the time, 1 computer, my wife will be happier but CCP will lose 4Ç per 30 days of playtime.
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Imajihad ju
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:33:00 -
[259]
They're raising the price of the timecards so that the Europeans can't get around the vat, and if so that if they choose to, they end up giving CCP the same amount of cash.
Europeans seem to like forgetting that they're paying a 24.5% Icelandic Vat and that CCP only gets 11.325 Euros out of the 15 Euros they pay. Where as they get 15 of the 15 dollars Americans pay them (after which is subject to normal icelandic taxes, just like the 11.325 Euros are). Now 11.325 Euros is a bit over $17 dollars so they're still giving CCP a little bit more than Americans. But not as much as they'd like to think.
However that also means that back when EVE started, Euros were actually giving CCP less money than Americans. So stick the 'its unfair' right where the sun doesn't shine because you're all hypocritical children of unwedded mothers and you're full of bloody bull manure.
Removing the 30 day and the 90 day options and creating the 60 day option and trying to pretend there is no price hike however, thats just stupidity and an insult to their customer base.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:38:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Toolbert At this point, CCP might aswell add in a life time subscription option. I would seriously consider it now. Hellgate London, and Lord of the Rings both offer these options for $150 for one account. I think the idea is awesome and I would be willing to pay that high but one time fee to not have to worry about time cards and monthly fee increases ever again.
A 1 year sub is only around $100, offering a life-time sub for $150 would probably make a bunch of money early on, then leave them with crippled income and lower revenue over time. I never understood the logic of those lifetime subs, unless they figured people who would play for a year or so would pay and quit anyways, leaving false inflated subscription #s and they'd make more overall, but I don't buy it tbh.
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Deathtouche
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:45:00 -
[261]
They bring this in without helping us by giving us the option to pay by debit card in the UK, Raise the prices but please explain why removing the flexibility is good.
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jAMAmba MamabaI
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:02:00 -
[262]
Maybe what CCP aims to do is target those afk skill trainers who setup a 40 day l5 right before going on a vacation. By cutting game time into 60 day blocks its a lot harder to avoid training large skills while subbed and by implementing this plan they can still make more money
Maybe this plan is also made to revalue the isk currency, with everyone getting more money making isk worth more real money would be a way of decreasing inflation.
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Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:15:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Dagejoor
I hope you guys come to your senses.
Your sig... Nice title you gave yourself. -----
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Damien Cerverus
Dawn of a new Empire Pure.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:25:00 -
[264]
EPIC FAIL to the highest degree.
did anyone notice that the price for the new 60 day gtc is $4 less than the 90 day GTC? They increased the price/day ratio to screw players who rely on them because they make more money on the $15 monthly fee. So now it makes LESS sense to get a GTC. FAIL FAIL FAIL
if you want more money be more straightforward with it CCP
CSM please save us from this injustice
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:35:00 -
[265]
Originally by: James Lyrus Published subscription rates are: 1 Month, Ç14.95 = 23.5119USD (14.95EUR/month) 3 Month, Ç38.85 = 61.0995USD (12.95EUR/month) 6 Month, Ç71.70 = 112.774USD (11.95EUR/month) 12 Months, Ç131.40 = 206.674USD. (10.95EUR/month)
60 day codes, at $34.99 is 22.25EUR. Or 11.125EUR/month. E.g. Cheaper than every regularly paying customer who's not paying annually.
So all they've done is bring gtc prices in line with the European subscription costs at significant discount. In addition, they've left US residents using traditional payment methods like credit/debit cards with their old sub prices, meaning that despite the dollar being weak they still get the game dirt cheap and aren't affected unless they buy GTCs. The only reason to buy GTCs with cash and then add them to your account is if you can't use the traditional methods such as a debit card but can use those that the GTC supplier accepts such as paypal. HOWEVER, since GTCs were launched, CCP has added a new option to their normal subscription choices. You can now pay by PayByCash, who in turn can accept paypal and a myriad of other payment options.
If they'd explained all that in the press release, there wouldn't have been so much of a ****storm on the forums.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:37:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Imajihad ju They're raising the price of the timecards so that the Europeans can't get around the vat, and if so that if they choose to, they end up giving CCP the same amount of cash.
Europeans seem to like forgetting that they're paying a 24.5% Icelandic Vat and that CCP only gets 11.325 Euros out of the 15 Euros they pay. Where as they get 15 of the 15 dollars Americans pay them (after which is subject to normal icelandic taxes, just like the 11.325 Euros are). Now 11.325 Euros is a bit over $17 dollars so they're still giving CCP a little bit more than Americans. But not as much as they'd like to think.
However that also means that back when EVE started, Euros were actually giving CCP less money than Americans. So stick the 'its unfair' right where the sun doesn't shine because you're all hypocritical children of unwedded mothers and you're full of bloody bull manure.
Removing the 30 day and the 90 day options and creating the 60 day option and trying to pretend there is no price hike however, thats just stupidity and an insult to their customer base.
Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.
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Kailiani
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:44:00 -
[267]
I was barely getting by with 2 accounts, I don't have much time to play to gain ISK to purchase GTC's, half the ISK comes from R&D agents even!
What really sucks is I'm going to have to play almost as much to keep one account up now, no way I'm sparing more of my RL time to keep two accounts alive at this cost.
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Kuzya Morozov
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:44:00 -
[268]
Whoa, is this serious? Don't do this CCP!
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 00:50:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Shakuul Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.
It's not necesarily to do with VAT at all. They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs: - Americans with no access to a credit card etc. - Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax. - Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.
The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash. They don't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted. The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will.
People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the change. In light of my increasing isk costs, I might let one of my accounts lapse or sell the main char on it and cancel it but I haven't decided yet.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:07:00 -
[270]
Onowwwwws!
This is bound to force the ISK price of GTC's up, and they are currently at their lowest for nearly two years.
Now I will have to spend evern moar of my Internet Spaceship Kredits to play your damnable game!!!!11
GRRRRR CCP! <SHAKES FIST VEHEMENTLY>
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
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Uncle Mo
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:12:00 -
[271]
CCP, we want more choices, not less. This is BS! --------------------------------------------- Official US ambassador to the UK.
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Kuzya Morozov
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:12:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Shakuul Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.
It's not necesarily to do with VAT at all. They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs: - Americans with no access to a credit card etc. - Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax. - Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.
The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash. They don't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted. The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will.
People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the change. In light of my increasing isk costs, I might let one of my accounts lapse or sell the main char on it and cancel it but I haven't decided yet.
How about people who buy them FOR isk? And can't afford more than 150mil a month?
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cornelius Agrippa
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:33:00 -
[273]
The one thing that gets me as am from the UK but live in the USA is the following
Why should a person living in a country have to be made to pay for there countrys money problems, its not the players fault the dollor has dropped to a low its not the Europeans fault there money is worth a little more why upset the player base for things they cannot controll .
30day 90 110 should be left as they are add in the 60 day cards and maybe just maybe the few of us people that started playing 5 years ago will still play for the next 5 years. I dont really care about the increase but i do think paying 34.99 for a 60 day card and loseing 30days is a bit much.
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MacQueen
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:34:00 -
[274]
Originally by: MacQueen Question: If I pay direct to CCP. Will I be able to get 30 day increments of game time? If so, would it continue to be the current price, or would that go up.
Thanks.
Still wondering this.
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Maria Anatolia
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:40:00 -
[275]
This sucks! "To simplify and bla bla" why not just say it? "To make more money we raise the price and lower your choice in time cards."
And it sucks that we in Europe have to pay more for the same service. Two accounts cost me about 300SEK each month if I pay in euros which is almost 50 frickin dollars!
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Big Al
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:45:00 -
[276]
Don't worry guys, you're still getting all these 'free' upgrades.
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Tek'a Rain
Collegium Mechanicae Holding
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Posted - 2008.05.23 01:56:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 23/05/2008 01:57:43
Originally by: cornelius Agrippa why upset the player base for things they cannot controll .
players, well, most Especially UK players, using the GTC Loophole to pay lower costs is the problem here. Since they chose to do that, why on earth are they getting upset when that loophole is taken away?
As for me, well, I pay with my card in multiple month blocks and my sub prices are not changing.
Remember, this is not a "OMG, CCP charges more for USA players!" issue. This is a "CCP Are Closing a loophole used by UK/outside US players!"
Edit: well, I kinda disagree with the funny changes and removing the timecardss though. Less Choices=Bad. Price Increases are fine, but not when bundled (hidden) Inside other changes.
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Miner Nine
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:00:00 -
[278]
Welp, I don't know about anyone else but I'm going take my money elsewhere if this go into effect. All I ever want is semi-smooth Fleet battles. For the past 5 years fleet battles have lag horrible and you're losts were due to server failing. But if you complain about these losts, the logs show nothing.
Now you're going be flying 9 people to Iceland, when the cost of travel is going higher then ever due to cost of fuel. 9 people that are suppose to be our elected officals, whom very first meeting is private. Non-transparent democracy to fly these people to Iceland and you raise the cost to play a game. We all know the CSM are going be worthless, just look at who is chairing it and their track record. I hate having to vote with my feet, but guess that's the way it has to be.
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theteck
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:02:00 -
[279]
last time i try paypal with paybycash ... i have problem
because paybycash require a paypal authentified with credit card i pay a friend that buy gtc for me :)
but now i want to use paypal directly with ccp give me a account and i send money :)
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Leviathan9
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:09:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 23/05/2008 02:11:32 Errmm i always get 30day don't get rid of it... This is just a con so CCP get more money.. CCP keep the 30day and 90days, and add in teh 60days, then no body gets angry. ----------------------------
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Tek'a Rain
Collegium Mechanicae Holding
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:11:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Miner Nine Welp, I don't know about anyone else but I'm going take my money elsewhere if this go into effect.
From the way its written, the effect is When, not If. So you can contract your stuff to me and feel free to vote with your feet, etc, etc.
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Kilhu Emmek
Redshift Industrial
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:16:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Bonds Visio I hate to ask, but did WoW prices go up or can I still play that for $15 a month?/quote]
It's actually cheaper. Buy six months of WoW and it's $12.95/mo.
The most intelligence-insulting aspect of CCP's "press release" style price increase notification is the "industry standards" line. --
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:19:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 02:23:24
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov How about people who buy them FOR isk? And can't afford more than 150mil a month?
I covered that in the post you quoted but I was only addressing price concerns. The people who buy 30d gtcs with isk and can only afford enough isk each month to buy one do get shafted with the dropping of the 30d code but that's another issue entirely.
Originally by: theteck last time i try paypal with paybycash ... i have problem
because paybycash require a paypal authentified with credit card i pay a friend that buy gtc for me :)
but now i want to use paypal directly with ccp give me a account and i send money :)
You can verify a paypal account with a normal bank account, which is free to open.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Ribijk
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:20:00 -
[284]
I know CCP could careless about their customers and I am probably wasting my time typing this, But this is not a good idea. I am not happy with this.
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Ehronn
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:21:00 -
[285]
I really hope they will change their mind and keep a 30 day and 90 day gtc's at least, the price change I don't like, but noone ever likes price increases. But please keep the 30 day and 90 day options.
I pay with 30 day gtc's myself, for 2 accounts, it's convienant and due to my rl problems and income level, they really really helped.
hopefully ccp will change their minds some.
-----------------------
Dysfunctional Playground |
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:28:00 -
[286]
I don't care about the price increase, but I do wonder why they cannot keep the 30 and 90 day cards. Is the whole purpose of going to a 60 day card to disguise the change in price or is there some other reason. What ever it is I don't see it being that great an idea.
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Lord XSiV
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:33:00 -
[287]
CCP please consider raising the price on this new 60 day gtc to 40 USD.
As it is has become apparent in this thread that the leechers have no appreciation for what you have allowed them to do in the past it would be appropriate to take that privelage away or at the very least charge a high premium.
Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are so why should they not have to pay a premium? It is the dedicated, committed cc paying customers that allow CCP to count on revenue projections. GTC leechers on the otherhand are free to cancel at any time, abuse the skill training system by putting their accounts into 'hibernation' and abuse game resources farming isk to buy GTCs off people with money.
So, like many others who pay for the game via the preferred way of using a cc, it is finally somethign we can see that it is a move in the right direction to improving the game.
And for those who will whine because they don't have a credit card:
1. Your poor credit is not our problem 2. Your lack of a job is not our problem 3. Mommy and daddy should have a right to limit your playing ability 4. If you are a 'poor' student then you should be studying anyhow 5. Low income smokers have it way worse and they manage so quit your complaining
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:38:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Lord XSiV Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are
Hi, I'm one of the "leechers" that you're saying isn't committed to the game because I haven't payed for my accounts with cash since they allowed gtc-isk sales. Need I say more?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Verx Interis
Aurora Security Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:39:00 -
[289]
I don't really care if it's some 5% increase or whatever it is. But I don't like having to spend that much money at once, and not having the option of only one month more. 30 day cards $17.49 and the 90 day cards about $49.99, and add in the 60 day cards. That's a much better way to do it.
This is really the only 100% bad thing that I think CCP have ever done. Stuff in the game was debatable, it helped some and hurt others, but this is just a bad idea.
Quote: nub> you cant mine so you kill.
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Lamis
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:41:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
CCP please consider raising the price on this new 60 day gtc to 40 USD.
As it is has become apparent in this thread that the leechers have no appreciation for what you have allowed them to do in the past it would be appropriate to take that privelage away or at the very least charge a high premium.
Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are so why should they not have to pay a premium? It is the dedicated, committed cc paying customers that allow CCP to count on revenue projections. GTC leechers on the otherhand are free to cancel at any time, abuse the skill training system by putting their accounts into 'hibernation' and abuse game resources farming isk to buy GTCs off people with money.
So, like many others who pay for the game via the preferred way of using a cc, it is finally somethign we can see that it is a move in the right direction to improving the game.
And for those who will whine because they don't have a credit card:
1. Your poor credit is not our problem 2. Your lack of a job is not our problem 3. Mommy and daddy should have a right to limit your playing ability 4. If you are a 'poor' student then you should be studying anyhow 5. Low income smokers have it way worse and they manage so quit your complaining
Says the person who's Mommy and daddy are rich enough to buy anything their little darling wants.
This is a bad choice on CCP's part, and I am really ****ed about it. I can barely pay for one account, as I have to support others, and I dont have parents that give me everything I want. the 30 days let me have another account to do something else with, but now..
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:43:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Lamis Says the person who's Mommy and daddy are rich enough to buy anything their little darling wants.
I'll have you know it's hard work being a little darling!
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 02:51:00 -
[292]
If it's the weak dollar causing CCP profit issues shouldn't they increase both the price of GTC and the price of US CC subscriptions? More to the point shouldn't they tell us that's why they are doing this?
Even with the state of the dollar I don't think a price hike of this magnitude is justified.
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Jo Shmo
Inter-Stellar Defense Systems Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:03:00 -
[293]
I would just like to put in my .02 ISK on this matter. I feel that if CCP does implement this, they shouldnt charge us 34.95 for the 60 day card, when a 90 day card currently costs us 38.95. We get charged almost as much for 60 days as we do for 90 days currently, and i find this is unfair. The current 30/90 day pricing scheme gives us a 'bulk discount' for paying for the larger card. Three 30 day cards cost 44.85, 90 days cost 38.95, saving us roughly 14%. The new 60 day cards would actually cost us MORE money to buy. Two 30 days would cost us 29.90, where the 60 day would cost us 34.99, costing us roughly 16% extra. Raising how much you charge players to play the game is a good way to lose a large customer base.
In short, DO NOT change the current pricing scheme, it is a dumb move that while you may think will net you more money in the long run, will actually cause you to lose money, due to players quitting and going to other games that will be coming out soon (Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Darkfall Online to name a few).
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Kazaux Aux
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:29:00 -
[294]
I don't know if I'm first with this, but... 2 things...
1. Can I have your stuff?
2. My only access to play is buy GTC purchase via isk, and with this it will cost me much more to pay with isk now, where I should be paying roughly the same as I will be soon for 90 days instead of 60, Just that fact makes this change horrible.
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Imajihad ju
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:31:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Shakuul Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.
I've no idea if they could even deduct the server expense since the server is part of the value you're paying for (or wish you were paying for given the state of the server). I'm of the opinion that its much closer to the truth to assume that they can deduct only a negligible amount than an appreciable amount. CCP in the past has said that the VAT was more than responsible for the difference in price for Europeans and Americans.
Now that the Dollar has fallen even further Euros are simply paying a higher rate. Oh well. Price discrimination makes the world, and some businesses, go round. Just ask Intel and AMD. The Marginal cost for CCP is tiny. Charging Americans a few dollars less than Europeans doesn't hurt them and given our weakened currency makes sense in order to pick and keep subscribers they wouldn't have at all if they didn't. |
Descrambled
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Posted - 2008.05.23 03:49:00 -
[296]
first they announce changing my Helios into an ugly Imicus hull now they are messing around with the 30 day GTC. I am not happy about this crap at all CCP. I guess i will just avoid buying the GTC altogether now. I think this is bad for business but I guess it must be to their gain somehow. but its ****ing off your customers
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KangarooMan
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:05:00 -
[297]
Edited by: KangarooMan on 23/05/2008 04:06:56 As one of the people that dosnt have the RL money to pay to play eve i am only able to play by buying ETC,s with isk now with the market that is so low in prices constaly falling lower and lower its even harder to make the isk you have to put more and more in to get alittle out not to mention stuff up by ccp banning the wrong accounts lag and game mechanics not working correctly and not to mention how long it takes to get a petitons answered much as i love eve once my accounts run out of time i will not be continuing to play its just worth putting so much time to get so little out .
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Laimes Berns
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:09:00 -
[298]
Obviously, I don't have the time to read all 300 posts. The bottom line is this: as the owner of two accounts, I do not mind paying a little extra for EVE GTCs. The game is great, all issues notwithstanding. However, the flexibility of choice between different length gamecards must be kept.
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Jein Lei
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:20:00 -
[299]
this is a horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy greedy stupid thing to do.
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Bodhisattvas
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:29:00 -
[300]
All this whinging is turning me on
Carry on.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Cohortes Stellaris iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 04:56:00 -
[301]
Caring about customers. You're doing it wrong!
When I read the title I thought someone came up with something cool but a minimum of 60 days for $34,99 USD, no matter what, I'm sorry but this is fail out of a sudden. I sign the whine ;)
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Argyle Jones
Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.05.23 05:07:00 -
[302]
It's a sneaky way to do it CCP.
Raising the prices, and yes that's what you're doing, is a big issue and the least you can do is come out in the open and honestly discuss with the players that current dollar values are hurting the company and therefore you can now only pay in euro's or you're going to have to raise the prices.
Instead you offer up some weak excuse about 'conforming to industry standards' which excuse me for saying so is outright BS.
Treat your customers with the respect they deserve!
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TARG AK
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Posted - 2008.05.23 05:49:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Akelorian
Originally by: Fallorn Our government blows right now sure but then again your's wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us in WW2. That and a massive amount of people despise of current government look at the approval ratings.
Eh? Perhaps you should read up on who won that war, and why the American's decided to fight in it, (Pearl Harbour Maybe?) The Main country's that fought in WWII were Canada/Russia/England, USA didn't want to help so the Japanese persuaded them, so don't say if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a country. Glad your proud that you guys dropped two bombs and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children.
Ignorant American
Bomber Harris anyone... Please spare us your warped sense of history. Next thing you will be spewing is that ******'s demands in 1938 were not that bad. America was behind our Euro allies from the get go and supported them economically and militarily from the get go.
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El'Niaga
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.23 05:57:00 -
[304]
Well lets look at two reasons they did this.
1. Folks paying for 30 days then not paying for 30 days to skill train for free. Yep this eliminates that option through the GTCs. You would have to pay for 60 days then off 30 then pay 60 days, off 30 etc. So it will cut down slightly on the abuse.
2. As others pointed out the USD has decreased in value against almost all other currencies in recent years, thus an increase in cost was to be expected. (We'll probably see it in subscription prices soon too :( )
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Corsa d'Azur
Naughty People
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Posted - 2008.05.23 05:58:00 -
[305]
Originally by: TARG AK Bomber Harris anyone... Please spare us your warped sense of history. Next thing you will be spewing is that ******'s demands in 1938 were not that bad. America was behind our Euro allies from the get go and supported them economically and militarily from the get go.
The American Government supported the Europeans. American Businesses happily turned a profit and provided the industry for the European War demands. The American People remained steadfastly isolationist, many of us were still bitter about getting involved in WWI and wanted nothing to do with the war 'Continental War' except make money off of it. What America would have eventually done if Pearl Harbor hadn't occurred is up for debate. But history would be very different.
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GIGAR
Burma Star Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.05.23 05:58:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Argyle Jones It's a sneaky way to do it CCP.
Raising the prices, and yes that's what you're doing, is a big issue and the least you can do is come out in the open and honestly discuss with the players that current dollar values are hurting the company and therefore you can now only pay in euro's or you're going to have to raise the prices.
Instead you offer up some weak excuse about 'conforming to industry standards' which excuse me for saying so is outright BS.
Treat your customers with the respect they deserve!
Exactly. I don't mind paying more for Eve, but I DO mind for having to pay for 60 days. I like it the 30 day way; It's cheap every month, and you can just stop playing at anytime you want. With the 60 days... Well, you just give that statement the finger. Sorry CCP, but you really screwed up this this time.
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Reven Zero
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Posted - 2008.05.23 06:20:00 -
[307]
quick comment before i go back and read the rest of the thread.
If they cut the 30 and 90 day GTCs, I think they should cut the credit card options too, so a customer can only buy 2 months, then hike the prices on that as well.
After they do that lets see how many customers play when they realise they have to make a 2 month payment
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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.05.23 06:36:00 -
[308]
Edited by: Amastat on 23/05/2008 06:40:00 Edited by: Amastat on 23/05/2008 06:38:59 I personally don't mind paying a little more for my game time - but this personally sucks because we're now stuck with only one type of ETC - wtf?
What if I or many others are short and we need to get a code right away? Normally this is the use of 30-day codes. Now we're going to be like, "oh crap, I got two days to get a code before I can't get online - and I can't afford to get these crappy 60-days in a few days!"
Well - a lot of people probably will be saying that; I tend to plan ahead so personally that will not effect me.
I will have to pay a little extra is the bottom line - however I also will be forced to buy codes more frequently. Hopefully they aren't incredibly expensive - and I could just get 2 at a time? I hope... I really do.
It's like 400-600m for like 120-days of time right now - I would really hate to see that double. I would basically be spending in that event like 500-800m for x2 60-day codes - where I can now get 180-days for the same amount of work. It would put a serious hurting on my own character development and personal projects.
However- I would imagine that this would cause all ETC market to shift onto one type of code - therefore there would be a large supply since this is the only type of code available.
You could probably also expect at times that people will be buying these codes in bulk with credit and selling them for ISK - since, again, there is only one type of code now - all ISK buyers will be found in this section, the only section, of the ETC market. When players do this, this would drive prices down even further.
The demand would also go up though is the issue, since everyone is forced to buy just these now too.
I recommend that everyone buy the last of the 90-day codes while they last then :P
CCP better hope to god that ambulation is really f*cking good after pulling this stunt on all of us They will be making more money off of this as a corporation - so they had better put it to good use for us.
When you drive the price-of-service way up you have to make sure the buyers get their moneys worth unless you want to create a riot and/or mass subscriptions cancellations.
This sounds like the price-of-service is going up by like probably 30-60% - that is a enormous increase. I'd better see the quality go up by those same numbers too.
Can you imagine what the 8+ million WoW idiots would do if Blizzard pushed their subscription up from 15.00 USD/month to 20.00 USD/month? ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
stupid flanders
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Posted - 2008.05.23 06:52:00 -
[309]
Edited by: stupid flanders on 23/05/2008 06:53:04 I think it has more to do with the euros buying gtc's on the cheap and to slow down char farmers. It's not about the $ sucking or being "fair" to some segment of the player base its more likely to just a measure to stop rampent abuse of the current system. Although it is fun to see somebody who's new to the game buy a tons of gtc's and buy a cahr that they have no idea how to use and lose expensive things because of it.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:03:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Sabrina Treadehugger on 23/05/2008 07:03:51 Hello this dollar bussines is bs !
I can still avoid paying in euros and can have the same price with PaybyCash.
So wtf this is ******** and abusive.
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Shakuul
Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:22:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Shakuul Shouldn't the tax only be on Value Added...so CCP deducts server expenses and everything before paying the tax (since these are basically inputs that they purchased)? If this is the case, I doubt the impact of the VAT is as drastic as you're making it out to be.
It's not necesarily to do with VAT at all. They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs: - Americans with no access to a credit card etc. - Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax. - Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.
The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash. They don't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted. The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will.
People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the change. In light of my increasing isk costs, I might let one of my accounts lapse or sell the main char on it and cancel it but I haven't decided yet.
Good post
I was in group 3 so I was a little annoyed. I guess on the positive side, CCP will have more money to make us bigger better internet spaceships, in which case maybe I'll keep my third account...and if it makes enough money...get a 4th.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:24:00 -
[312]
I posted this over on the CSM forum, but I thought it was interesting for this thread, as well.
Basically I took all the "major" games, listed at shattered crystal. Here are the game time cards, sold for each game.
City of Heroes: 15, 30 and 60 day timecards Same for City Of Vilians D&D Online: 60 days Dungeon runners: 15, 30, 60 EQ: 30, 90 EQ2: 30, 90 Lineage 2: 15, 30, 60 LOTRO: 60 Matrix Online: 30, 90 POTBS: 30 Planetside: 30, 90 SWG: 30, 90 Tabula Rasa: 15, 30, 60 Ultima Online: 30, 90, 180 Vanguard: 30, 90 WoW: 60
The games highlighted, are the ones which only provide one type of GTC. These are also some of the more commercial games.
I understand if CCP needs to change something. But don't mess with the options that players have.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:27:00 -
[313]
if anything what would be wrong with 30 day and 60 day?
I mean come on CCP sometimes people only want to play for a month.
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Kalintos Tyl
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:30:00 -
[314]
If i move to live in usa. why will i have to pay with euro still after moving? Becosue i made account in europe?
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:41:00 -
[315]
Edited by: Kuolematon on 23/05/2008 07:42:58 Whaaaaaaat?! You removed my VAT evasion hole? Shame on you! *shakes fist*
Now I have to stockpile crapload of 90D GTC's and flood my accounts with cheap dollah for this. Dammit you CCP. My Visa bill gonna climb ALOT!
Addenium: One thing is good about this thou .. I forsee character prices to fall ALOT!
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Messerschmitt facility
Shinra Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:43:00 -
[316]
I live in Europe but because my CC is made on US dollars I get charged in US dollars :P _________________________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
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Ms BadAss
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:51:00 -
[317]
11 pages so far and no ccp reply..........need i say any more! same old BS
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:54:00 -
[318]
may 2008 - when ccp nerfed gtc-isk
**** yeah
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.23 07:57:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Ms BadAss 11 pages so far and no ccp reply..........need i say any more! same old BS
Kinda what you would expect from CCP. It's their standard way of handling things. Everything from t20 to bug and exploit is handled the same way. I truly hope another game similar to eve comes along as this is getting insulting.
At least we will have industry leading prices so we can brag around how stupid we are paying more than anyone else...
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:09:00 -
[320]
Originally by: El'Niaga Well lets look at two reasons they did this.
1. Folks paying for 30 days then not paying for 30 days to skill train for free. Yep this eliminates that option through the GTCs. You would have to pay for 60 days then off 30 then pay 60 days, off 30 etc. So it will cut down slightly on the abuse.
Off-training is an abuse? Says who? WHERE did you see a dev saying it's an abuse, I'd like to read the post with the blue bars because what you think, I don't care.
Imo CCP realise a lot of europeans use US 30d GTC because it's damn cheap and want to make them use CC subscription.
And CCP IS NOT closing the "GTC loophole" people. To end that they would have to remove completely the GTC system. But they must have estimate they would lose too many customers.
-------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:12:00 -
[321]
I am very very against this. Were your letter physical, I would sign it to show my support.
-- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:13:00 -
[322]
GO CSM, go !
*me runs away
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AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:13:00 -
[323]
werw there any official ccp response on this thread? The thread is way to long to read and i've skimmed through it and the message is same everywhere.
but gentleman (and ladies), we are addicted, and you should get used to the fact that your dealers will yank you around.
and my view? pathetic, dissapointing. but that's our ccp so i'm not really surprised
I can say ASS \o/ yay!!! |
Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:14:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 23/05/2008 08:15:46 **** YOU CCP
I LL TRASH MY CHARACTERS AGAINST SOME MONEY (isk?!)
LAG + UNBALANCE + ****TY CHANGES + WTF AMBULATION, and then that ?!
If you do it, yo loose 3 account.
BYE !
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Garia666
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:15:00 -
[325]
CCP made some calculations to gain more PROFFIT. www.garia.net |
RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:20:00 -
[326]
Bring it to the CSM -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve 5th Anniversary Lottery
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Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:22:00 -
[327]
This is BS they are only seeking to get more money out of us with a 1/3 increase in prices. Alot of players cant afford that.
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Spartus Raile
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:23:00 -
[328]
I don't want my hand to be forced into buying 60 days when I only want 30. I have two accounts and being a bread line student isn't helping. I won't quit EVE over this, but I will no longer be paying for two accounts. I hope your price increase was worth it. --- Warning:,Veldspar can seriously damage your health and mental wellbeing. Do not place Veldspar over your head. Do not ingest. If Veldspar makes contact with your eyes, rinse immediately |
Kurogauna
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:27:00 -
[329]
The problem is they say "Hi, we are making your life easier"... But when you read it carefully you understand "hi, we fock you off 30% more".
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Lord XSiV
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:27:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Garia666 CCP made some calculations to gain more PROFFIT.
So good for them. Shows that they have some good business acumen.
As for the rest of the complainers in the thread it is a good thing that the loss of the non-existant revenue stream you represent if you did actually go through with your threats to quit will be replaced at exact the same rate as expired accounts. Yet another smart business decision - replace your dead weight portions of your customer base with better quality longer term clients.
But chances are the theory that most whiners are always bluffing when they pull out the 'quit' card will unfortunately come true.
It's also a good thing that CCP isn't taking the CSM seriously; however this 'issue' will at least give them something to keep them entertained for a while. Then again with only an 11% voter turnout you can't actually take them seriously as representative of the community....
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Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:33:00 -
[331]
Lol, CCP is solving LAG
I'll sell my char Bye bye money
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F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:35:00 -
[332]
Watch with every whine and cry will be put forward for the CSMs to deal with... less work for CCP.
And with that I bet CCP are laughing all the way to the bank
Slick move ..
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:35:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Garia666 CCP made some calculations to gain more PROFFIT.
So good for them. Shows that they have some good business acumen.
As for the rest of the complainers in the thread it is a good thing that the loss of the non-existant revenue stream you represent if you did actually go through with your threats to quit will be replaced at exact the same rate as expired accounts. Yet another smart business decision - replace your dead weight portions of your customer base with better quality longer term clients.
But chances are the theory that most whiners are always bluffing when they pull out the 'quit' card will unfortunately come true.
It's also a good thing that CCP isn't taking the CSM seriously; however this 'issue' will at least give them something to keep them entertained for a while. Then again with only an 11% voter turnout you can't actually take them seriously as representative of the community....
wow must be nice being a ccp fangirl and playing solo
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Lord XSiV
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:37:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Garia666 CCP made some calculations to gain more PROFFIT.
So good for them. Shows that they have some good business acumen.
As for the rest of the complainers in the thread it is a good thing that the loss of the non-existant revenue stream you represent if you did actually go through with your threats to quit will be replaced at exact the same rate as expired accounts. Yet another smart business decision - replace your dead weight portions of your customer base with better quality longer term clients.
But chances are the theory that most whiners are always bluffing when they pull out the 'quit' card will unfortunately come true.
It's also a good thing that CCP isn't taking the CSM seriously; however this 'issue' will at least give them something to keep them entertained for a while. Then again with only an 11% voter turnout you can't actually take them seriously as representative of the community....
wow must be nice being a ccp fangirl and playing solo
You sound a little bitter, would you like a lollipop?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:38:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 23/05/2008 08:15:46 **** YOU CCP
I LL TRASH MY CHARACTERS AGAINST SOME MONEY (isk?!)
LAG + UNBALANCE + ****TY CHANGES + WTF AMBULATION, and then that ?!
If you do it, yo loose 3 account.
BYE !
surprisingly enough, less people = less lag, so by all means, go ahead.
Also, what happens when your neighbourhood supermarket doubles the price on coca cola? You dont whine, you go to the competition
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Kiiikoooloool
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:38:00 -
[336]
Quote: You sound a little bitter, would you like a lollipop?
AHAHAHAHA, go sock wrangler for money (to pay your account =)
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:40:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Garia666 CCP made some calculations to gain more PROFFIT.
So good for them. Shows that they have some good business acumen.
As for the rest of the complainers in the thread it is a good thing that the loss of the non-existant revenue stream you represent if you did actually go through with your threats to quit will be replaced at exact the same rate as expired accounts. Yet another smart business decision - replace your dead weight portions of your customer base with better quality longer term clients.
But chances are the theory that most whiners are always bluffing when they pull out the 'quit' card will unfortunately come true.
It's also a good thing that CCP isn't taking the CSM seriously; however this 'issue' will at least give them something to keep them entertained for a while. Then again with only an 11% voter turnout you can't actually take them seriously as representative of the community....
wow must be nice being a ccp fangirl and playing solo
You sound a little bitter, would you like a lollipop?
troll answer nr.64 nice
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Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:41:00 -
[338]
Quote: surprisingly enough, less people = less lag, so by all means, go ahead.
That's true. CCP is solving lag, that's funny how they do it.
Quote: Also, what happens when your neighbourhood supermarket doubles the price on coca cola? You dont whine, you go to the competition
I have the chance to buy my food via a direct market. No super market or parasites like: food is sold directly from the producer to the consumer. Better quality food, lower prices. Yeah, that's competition.
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wncc1701p1
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:44:00 -
[339]
having more than 1 account this is unfortunate for me, i was debating on closing 1 account down to save some money, well with this decision it has made my mind up, i will be closing an account down, so it is ccp that will lose out here, also along with other members that i know of they are closing down 2nd acconts too, so looks like ccp may have shot themselves in the foot here
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Lelulie
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:46:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Jantje Smit
Originally by: Mac Maniac Jantje Smit, Why don't you try to use your head for something other than a hatrack?
Because thousands of UK suscribers have been avoiding costs by paying in $, im not suprised they upped the price.
UK customers have been avoiding tax through GTCs, CCP gets the same money.
Get a clue. ------------------------------------ |
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:49:00 -
[341]
i can still avoid paying in euros through PaybyCash
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:50:00 -
[342]
Tax doesnt even come lose to explaining price difference between paying with dollars and other currencies.
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Lord XSiV
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:52:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger i can still avoid paying in euros through PaybyCash
So you buy your lollipops in dollars?
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Max Teranous
Teranous Productions
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:52:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Lelulie UK customers have been avoiding tax through GTCs, CCP gets the same money.
Get a clue.
Not true, that would only be the case if you saved 17.5% comparing paying direct by CC or using GTC's. The actual saving was more than that - hence CCP was losing revinue.
This is the first price rise in 5 years, well past time. Just look at what petrol prices have done in the same time frame.
Max
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Anti Excedrin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:55:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Furb Killer Tax doesnt even come lose to explaining price difference between paying with dollars and other currencies.
And surely you've crunched the numbers to justify that claim right? I mean it couldn't possibly be that the tax likely explains about half of the difference right?
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lady2isis
Philae Temple
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:55:00 -
[346]
agree with the idea removing 30 & 90 day GTC is crap~
/signed i am who i am; therefor i am Her |
Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:55:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger i can still avoid paying in euros through PaybyCash
So you buy your lollipops in dollars?
Does your mommy know you're trolling ?
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:55:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Lelulie UK customers have been avoiding tax through GTCs, CCP gets the same money.
WTS, information on exchange rates. This was really bound to happen though, the only strange thing is that they didn't increase the credit card rates. Pretty sure they're going to lose customers anyway, might as well increase tehm all.
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.05.23 08:55:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Max Teranous
Originally by: Lelulie UK customers have been avoiding tax through GTCs, CCP gets the same money.
Get a clue.
Not true, that would only be the case if you saved 17.5% comparing paying direct by CC or using GTC's. The actual saving was more than that - hence CCP was losing revinue.
This is the first price rise in 5 years, well past time. Just look at what petrol prices have done in the same time frame.
Max
i dont think one should compare mmo prices to petrol prices. wouldnt it make more sense to compare mmo prices to other mmo's prices ? as far as i can tell prices of wow decreased at last.. hmm whatever.
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:03:00 -
[350]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/05/2008 09:04:24 Serious stop whining about the price raise. Looking at the dollar exchange rates it didnt come really as a surprise.
For those who say USD used to be much more worth then euro, that never happened. At its max one USD was worth arround 1.15 euro. That is nothing compared to the current rates.
USD rates:
The problem is that CCP just doesnt admit it they did it to raise prices and that they removed the 30 and 90 day GTCs, which just plain sucks.
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Innaara
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:08:00 -
[351]
Let's hope Jumpgate will live up to it's expectations. After knowing CCP for over a year now, I totally hate it's attitude. Introducing crappy options like factional warfare and not fixing any real issues.
Luckily I have so many GTC's against the lowest Australian Dollar rates, it's almost a joke. It'll last me for 3 years if I don't sell them for isk (in EU money it would last a year). By that time another sci-fi game will rise.
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Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:10:00 -
[352]
Quote: like factional warfare and not fixing any real issues.
Quote: TRUE
ABULATION = Crap Factionnal Warfare = Crap Changing EW frigz skin = WTF ?!
...
Lag = Still waiting Killing Isk sellers = still waiting Solving balance issues = still waiting...
...
CCP is not a game provider ... It's business only.
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okcerg
Fellowship of The Outer Ring
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:14:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Furb Killer
The problem is that CCP just doesnt admit it they did it to raise prices and that they removed the 30 and 90 day GTCs, which just plain sucks.
I agree the 30d GTC will be missed... But how could they raise the prices AND keep selling 30d GTCs. Think about it it's just not possible. They would have to rise 30d GTC price to 21$ so a european could buy it for 14Ç. That's nonsense when the 30d CC sub is way cheaper for americans.
in short: HOW COULD THEY MAKE EUROPEANS PAY IN Çuros? By getting rid of GTC? No way, it would be heaven for ISK farmers.
So guys, have a thought and try to find how could CCP make europeans pay in Ç WITHOUT removing GTCs
They came up with a good compromise imo...
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:17:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/05/2008 09:20:54 It would imo be strange if you force people to pay in a certain currency. If i can buy exactly the same thing somewhere else much cheaper, then i buy it somewhere else much cheaper.
@khudo, many people are looking forward to FW...
Quote: Lag = Still waiting Killing Isk sellers = still waiting Solving balance issues = still waiting...
1. Stop blobbing, lag will never be totally solved and it is unrelated to FW, ambulation, etc. 2. Killing ISK buyers is much more efficient. And looking at the ammount of people still complaining about negative isk balance, it works pretty well. And ammount of isk seller advertising is reduced alot. 3. There will always be balance issues unless we all just fly an ibis. There are still enough imbalances yes, but in general it is quite well balanced imo.
And you can think grammar is overrated, most dont.
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Innaara
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:19:00 -
[355]
Edited by: Innaara on 23/05/2008 09:20:02 Edited by: Innaara on 23/05/2008 09:19:26
Originally by: Khudo
AMBULATION = Crap
... [/quote
They just want more chicks in the game and roleplaying noobs.
Quote:
CCP is not a game provider ... It's business only.
They're hoping that the playerbase will stablise after a few months of decrease. People tend to shout a lot, but in the end they will pay. CCP knows that. The have no competition in this genre and the only way for CCP to actually listen and do something is a massive los of players to another MMO (God, let's really hope Jumpgate wil be utterly cool).
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Anti Excedrin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:33:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Anti Excedrin on 23/05/2008 09:35:12
Originally by: Furb Killer Serious stop whining about the price raise. Looking at the dollar exchange rates it didnt come really as a surprise.
For those who say USD used to be much more worth then euro, that never happened. At its max one USD was worth arround 1.15 euro. That is nothing compared to the current rates.
1) At the moment all subscription rates are the same. I highly suspect they will stay the same.
2) The Euro has to be Worth 1.245 Dollars in order for the cash CCP gets from a Euro subscription to equal the cash they get from a US subscription. God bless the VAT eh? Until that was reached Europeans were in essence not paying 'their fair share.' CCP themselves have cited the VAT as why they were not adjusting Euro prices down when the Euro started to rise.
3) At the moment the difference is greater than the VAT alone will account for. Enjoy the price discrimination and the added increase in price of GTCs in order to make sure you can't get around it. Because get this, the price for GTCs will now approximately reflect the price Europeans pay minus the VAT. IE, you're giving CCP the same amount of cash whether you pay a subscription in Euros or via GTCs.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.23 09:35:00 -
[357]
CCP, youre lame.
Trolls stfu
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Anti Excedrin
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:40:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Anti Excedrin Because get this, the price for GTCs will now approximately reflect the price Europeans pay minus the VAT. IE, you're giving CCP the same amount of cash whether you pay a subscription in Euros or via GTCs.
The number crunch for that
14.95 Euro * (1 - .245**) = 11.28725 Euro * Currency Conversion = 17.75 USD/Month
34.99 USD / 2 months = 17.495 USD/Month
Whoda thunk it eh?
** 24.5% = the Icelandic VAT
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knob end
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 09:56:00 -
[359]
Methinks they should be *****ing down on the macro "players" farming ISK for GTC's rather than the genuine GTC buyers - this "upgrade" is nothing more than a huge d-i-l-d-o up the arse of genuine players
My 2nd accounts main is now up for sale and my 3rd account will be wound down forthwith... I'm seriously thinking of winding down my 2nd account once the sale is complete
Nice one CCP, any more "Power of 2" promotions on the horizon? |
Red Desire
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:17:00 -
[360]
What I don't understand... is the bull****. Just say we are loosing money, we want more money.. due the taxes or whatever, but don't do : "To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD."
Respect us and we will respect you. Most of us are old players,you don't actually have a standard player base here. There are strong bonds between alliances and corporations members, the BBQ's meetings and parties are as usual as the lag is in the game.
We are not blind, we see the crap parts and the good parts. Stop lying and deceiving us, just give us the truth. If not, just because we are such a special community we might give you the bull**** back.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:26:00 -
[361]
Originally by: okcerg
Originally by: Furb Killer
The problem is that CCP just doesnt admit it they did it to raise prices and that they removed the 30 and 90 day GTCs, which just plain sucks.
I agree the 30d GTC will be missed... But how could they raise the prices AND keep selling 30d GTCs. Think about it it's just not possible. They would have to rise 30d GTC price to 21$ so a european could buy it for 14€. That's nonsense when the 30d CC sub is way cheaper for americans.
in short: HOW COULD THEY MAKE EUROPEANS PAY IN €uros? By getting rid of GTC? No way, it would be heaven for ISK farmers.
So guys, have a thought and try to find how could CCP make europeans pay in € WITHOUT removing GTCs
They came up with a good compromise imo...
I'm sure that once dollar recovers the prices of GTCs will go down or will it be another increas as the € is falling towards dollar and we are losing cash... That is BS argument. There is always a reason to increase the prices and never to lower them.
I don't see any other MMO having that kind of rates. Looks like EVE id circling the drain. No fixes on the horizont but increased price and 60days GTCs to make everything more fun...
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Warrior Crash
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 10:31:00 -
[362]
The main reason im P***ed off cause of this is because I profer GTC's as they dont screew me out 5 days here and there each month like when i started playing when i was using a direct credit card payment to CCP. There was both that and the early charge on the account sometimes by 10 days before due.
This hasn't just happened to me in the corp im in, same most likely goes for tones of other players out there that may not of knoticed. http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1315/nfssigur6.gif |
iloni atoriandra
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:32:00 -
[363]
I run 4 accounts on 90day GTC's and im going to be paying for Conan. Theres no way im going to be paying a nearly 30% increase on each of the EVE accounts so ill definately be cancelling at least 1 of them now.
I find it very coincidental that they up the price when is coming out soon and to take an active part in FW you need to use a char that isnt in an alliance, meaning that for a lot of people they will need to set up an alt. This seems very underhanded of CCP encouraging people to make more alt accounts for FW and then increaseing the subscription costs......
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:45:00 -
[364]
Conspiracy, get the tinfoil hats.
Totally ridiculous btw. This is simply the most logical time to do it.
One of Eve's strongest points is free expansions. Raise monthly price close to expansion release and potential new player will think: "yeah right, 'free' expansions that happen to have raise in monthly cost". Release it after expansion and new players that came and did trial account wont like it that just when they started playing for arround a month CCP increases price, so they stop.
so they did it before expansion.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:50:00 -
[365]
free expansions my ass
it's just wrapping for the "finishing beta"
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El'Niaga
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:51:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: El'Niaga Well lets look at two reasons they did this.
1. Folks paying for 30 days then not paying for 30 days to skill train for free. Yep this eliminates that option through the GTCs. You would have to pay for 60 days then off 30 then pay 60 days, off 30 etc. So it will cut down slightly on the abuse.
Off-training is an abuse? Says who? WHERE did you see a dev saying it's an abuse, I'd like to read the post with the blue bars because what you think, I don't care.
Imo CCP realise a lot of europeans use US 30d GTC because it's damn cheap and want to make them use CC subscription.
And CCP IS NOT closing the "GTC loophole" people. To end that they would have to remove completely the GTC system. But they must have estimate they would lose too many customers.
Whether they've said so or not is irrelevant. It robs them of subscription money when folks do it, so limiting it makes business sense.
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iloni atoriandra
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:55:00 -
[367]
Currently it costs me ú320 (roughly $640) to run all my accounts for 1 year. Under the new pricing it would cost me ú420 (roughly $840). So thats an extra $200 a year, or roughly a 31% increase. These are rough figures as converion amounts vary but a 31% increase is an obscene amount.
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FeatherDust
REUNI0N Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:58:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Khudo
Quote: like factional warfare and not fixing any real issues.
Quote: TRUE
...
Lag = Still waiting Killing Isk sellers = still waiting Solving balance issues = still waiting...
...
CCP is not a game provider ... It's business only.
QFT.
Hi, dear CCP, You don't fix obvious bugs in time. Ok, I'll wait a little bit longer. You fix this bugs adding more new bugs. (Everybody remember that Scanner button issue?) Ok, I like the game, nobody's perfect. And you need more money or that. I say WTF?
Can you please answer, what the hell I'm paying for? Factional warfare? Ha-ha.
Bad approach CCP.
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:00:00 -
[369]
Some day you will get that eve doesnt revolve arround you.
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Nukkari
Paragon Horizons THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:03:00 -
[370]
Price increase yes, thats fine by me, but 30%+ in one go. And by saying it "attunes" product offering, how? Someone somewhere needs to rethink this.
Wait i get it, this is how you stop lag? Reduce your membership base.
/me watched the character sale pages expanding greatly soon, some of mine included
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:10:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Furb Killer Some day you will get that eve doesnt revolve arround you.
/signed ccp is not god and should not act like it the custommers and their wallets are eve as much as ccp is
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Rramar Claime
Kingdom of Kador Kingdom of Redemption
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:15:00 -
[372]
As i said in so many topics before, that's the SW:G way of doing things... Dont listen to customers just go for the money and mess the whole game up. You are doing exactly that CCP and im really sad about seeing that in my favourite game. I hear a LOT of people in the game saying eve is dying and THEY ARE LEAVING THE GAME! I act like i didnt hear them because i still think you guys will recognize that this is! an existing problem. You are going in the wrong direction with almost every decision. Please... work for the game and for the customers too, not for the money only!
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Rramar Claime
Kingdom of Kador Kingdom of Redemption
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:17:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Khudo
Quote: like factional warfare and not fixing any real issues.
Quote: TRUE
ABULATION = Crap Factionnal Warfare = Crap Changing EW frigz skin = WTF ?!
...
Lag = Still waiting Killing Isk sellers = still waiting Solving balance issues = still waiting...
...
CCP is not a game provider ... It's business only.
This this and this!
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Shiasafri
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:24:00 -
[374]
Add the 60d option and raise all three, Screw us over by giving us no other payment options.
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Wraith101
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:26:00 -
[375]
The removal the 30 and 90 day gtc's just sucks. I see no reason for the that change. IF they just wanted to even out the exchange rates or increase the money intake. It would be a lot easier just to announce that we are raising gtc prices to reflect it. I am glad i am leaving this game. IMO it has gone downhill in many ways for a while now. BTW NO you cant have my stuff. :P
/me signed
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sakurako
OffBeat Creations The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:29:00 -
[376]
this will hit in 2 ways
1 - your own walet 2 - there will also be less etc for sale for isk due to the higher cost
on a side note i can see these selling at 250-350m isk each as there will be only the one option might even be higher
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:30:00 -
[377]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/05/2008 11:30:59 Good thing my cost for playing won't increase…
edit: …and even if it did, it would still be worth it.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:34:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 23/05/2008 11:30:59 Good thing my cost for playing won't increaseà
edit: àand even if it did, it would still be worth it.
what about the people you play with you're ok with them leaving over stupid measures ?
and if you play solo than go play wow pls
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MBlaster
TANK.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:38:00 -
[379]
The price rise doesn't bother me, CCP is a business after all. I just want to pay monthly as its more convenient for me.
Bad idea CCP. |
Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:40:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger what about the people you play with you're ok with them leaving over stupid measures ?
Well, they're not leaving either, so no worries there.
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Karando
Random Goods
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:47:00 -
[381]
17.5 dollars per 30 days, this is a joke. With a price of $38.85 for 90 days of game time, you could get a third month for $3.86 more.
Could it be that the 22nd of May is some kind of "Second April Fools' Day"?
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:53:00 -
[382]
Me and teh gf run 6 accounts between us, thsi is mainly so we can enjoy all aspects of eve without choking 1 account with too many skills to ever be able to train... 4 accounts will now be cancelled if this goes ahead..
epic fail ccp
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Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.23 11:56:00 -
[383]
LOL @ The number of eternal quitters.
OH MY GOD SO MANY MORE DOLLARS, WHATEVER WILL WE DO
(Perhaps blame your government for your failing currency?)
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Sabrina Treadehugger
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:58:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger what about the people you play with you're ok with them leaving over stupid measures ?
Well, they're not leaving either, so no worries there.
some of mine are leaving or cancelling accounts.
also you will never know it but you might miss making some new friends becouse of this.
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Toreth
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 11:59:00 -
[385]
Edited by: Toreth on 23/05/2008 12:04:20 Edited by: Toreth on 23/05/2008 12:01:48
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou (Perhaps blame your government for your failing currency?)
My currency is at the highest it's ever been since it was floated in 1983.
Removing the 30 day GTCs and making it more expensive to pay in isk is what will get me. The value of paying by CC is at the cheapest it's ever been, but after years of paying that way I just switched to GTC's only to have this happen a month after.
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True Carebear
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:02:00 -
[386]
Edited by: True Carebear on 23/05/2008 12:02:52 i just liek having the coice to buy in 30 and 90 day options. ok buying in $ helps a lot when you live in the uk. but a 30% rise in price is very unfair on players not to mention taking away there choice about how much time to buy in 1 go
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GB Man
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:11:00 -
[387]
I can't be bothered to read through 14 pages of comments. That being said, am I the only one who thinks that the drastic change to GTC sales has less to do with equalizing the price exchange for the US dollar and more on a veiled attempt to hinder RMT sales?
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Breytac
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:11:00 -
[388]
Well, I was going to raise isk for a carrier alt by selling GTC's, as well as I want this character to fly HAC's and Marauders. I don't buy my GTC's through the Eve Store, so unless the site I get GTC's from sells the new cards at a minimum, it looks like it will be years before I get my alt into carriers and my main into HAC's and Marauders, not the months I was hoping for.
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GB Man
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:17:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Breytac Well, I was going to raise isk for a carrier alt by selling GTC's, as well as I want this character to fly HAC's and Marauders. I don't buy my GTC's through the Eve Store, so unless the site I get GTC's from sells the new cards at a minimum, it looks like it will be years before I get my alt into carriers and my main into HAC's and Marauders, not the months I was hoping for.
This brings up a pretty important point. I foresee a massive buyout of GTCs by RMT websites to keep this going. CCP probably knows this will happen, but the real question is, can CCP do anything about it?
I am a huge supporter of CCPs secure ETC system. But I see that system utterly falling apart in favor of buying the GTCs from 3rd party stores.
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ROPE HEAD
KickAssCrew
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:17:00 -
[390]
not being able to pick a 30 day gtc bites and "wah wah wah" credit card ftw now
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CCP Wrangler
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:45:00 -
[391]
This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
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Korth
Serenity Technology
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Posted - 2008.05.23 12:49:00 -
[392]
Industry standards? 30 day for 14.99 is industry standard. How is 60 day for 34.99 industry standard?
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:50:00 -
[393]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 23/05/2008 12:53:52
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
Sry wrangler, there is no industry standard please link the formal document for this standard please if other wise, but removing a monthly code is certainly a move away from any industry norm, the only way I could see the supposition that 60 day is a standard is by looking at WoW's pre paid game time codes but look at every other subscription based mmo and you'll find 30 & 90 day options heck theres even 15 day options for some ------------------------------------------ Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Heroldyn
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:51:00 -
[394]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
we know that sentence allready :P
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Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 12:59:00 -
[395]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
I think you can safely say that after 14 pages of don't do this to us, this quote is not working anymore. CCP just did a bang up job of alienating a very large portion of there player base. If thats what you wanted you did fine if not, give us back the choice of how we pay to play eve. Because in the end we all pay to play and we are the customer, not the other way around.
-Rorin |
Pardack
Blue. Blue Federation
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:00:00 -
[396]
Edited by: Pardack on 23/05/2008 13:01:06
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
14 Pages of comments, some of which directly address the 'Industry Standard' fallacy and you're spewing this nonsense still? How is a $5 premium for the use of etc/gtc 'standard' in any way, shape or form? Not to mention the elimination of 30-day option which is the most versatile (and common sense option IMO) option for customers AND and an option that is also available for virtually every MMO.
If you're going to raise prices don't dance around the issue, playing games. At least treat your customers with some respect and be honest about it.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:03:00 -
[397]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
Industry standand is lowering first time purchase price while not changing monthly fees. Increasing a GTC price and decreasing number of available options is NOT industry standard. Not even EA does that.
If there is any change in monthly fees, they go DOWN, not up, thats the industry standard.
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Marisal
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:09:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
Industry standand is lowering first time purchase price while not changing monthly fees. Increasing a GTC price and decreasing number of available options is NOT industry standard. Not even EA does that.
If there is any change in monthly fees, they go DOWN, not up, thats the industry standard.
Could this be because the population of eve has recently peaked and the possibility the potential growth of turn over may not grow dramatically any time soon?
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Waste Land
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:09:00 -
[399]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
This is what I call a punch in the face. Nothing better than repeating that nonsense after 14 pages? |
Karando
Random Goods
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:09:00 -
[400]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards
Yeah, sure, INDUSTRY STANDARD. Just because Blizzard offers 60-day-GTCs for WoW it doesn't mean it's a ****in industry standard.
If industry standards are so important for you, why don't we add battlegrounds to the World of EVEcraft, eh?! Or maybe give players the opportunity to buy cool looking Tier6 dungeon armor for Ambulation?
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Sidrat Flush
Life is Experience Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:12:00 -
[401]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Mac Maniac I am seriously considering closing my 2nd account and from what I am hearing from my corpmates; many of them as well. CCP you are heading in entirely the WRONG direction.
Yawn.
Don't worry, your threat to cancel your 'second' account has been noted and falls into a very low to non-existent likelihood of occurance. And if it were to happen, the revenue will quickly be replaced by a real dedicated player once power of two is offered once again.
Thank you CCP for starting to address real paying customers concerns of being able to play the game by 'culling' the free loaders into paying what is more appropriate for an on demand method of payment which is common everywhere else.
How are people who can only purchase codes with cash, free loaders? Sure some buy codes to sell on for ISK. They've still purchased it from a third party company, and now those companies will have to change their eve online page and prices just because CCP wants to increase the price and curtail choice.
For many people, paying direct by debit or credit card isn't an option, so we are forced (unless we stop playing eve, of course) to go through the hoops of the 3rd party resellers, when all we want is the ability to pay for the game time in bite size chunks that we can a) plan for, around personal schedules and b) afford in one lump sum, and continue playing.
It's not rocket science, and those people who have purchased 30 day codes will find they have to pay nearly 50% on top, in one go to re-activate their account.
I'm sure in time everyone will be used to it though, what I'm wondering is how much these 60 day codes will level out at for ISK.
Life is about memories the more the better.
http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp) |
June K'aral
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 13:13:00 -
[402]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
What industry standard?! Based on information from ShatteredCrystal.com, the only 2 MMO's I can see that use just 60 day cards is WOW and LOTRO. Sony uses 30 and 90-day card system(at least 6 MMO's here), NCSoft(City of Heroes, Tabula Rasa,...) has 15, 30, 60-day cards. Why then was the choice made of going with a system that is clearly in the minority? Why not give the players the choice? Wouldn't a system similar to NCSoft's be better? Where you'd have a 30 day for 20$(19.99$), 60 day for 30$(29.99$) and a 90 day for 40(or 38.85$ or even 39.99$). Lack of options could very well drive players away...
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Moff Tigriss
IMpAct Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:14:00 -
[403]
Hmmm, 14 pages of messages, and finaly only one official reaction : two lines copied from the news, and nothing more. It's a joke.
I love CCP, but for the first time, i'm depited by theses manipulations.
Keep 30d and 90d GTC. That's all.
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abraheam
Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:17:00 -
[404]
Edited by: abraheam on 23/05/2008 13:18:32 The "simplify the system" are the only 3 words that matter from your sentence Wrangler. I have heard them before.
RIP Creature Handler.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:25:00 -
[405]
Edited by: Locii on 23/05/2008 13:27:05 Europe Cost/month* Total cost* 1-month-plan Ç 14.95 Ç 14.95 3-month-plan Ç 12.95 Ç 38.85 6-month-plan Ç 11.95 Ç 71.70 12-month-plan Ç 10.95 Ç 131.40 * VAT included
Outside Europe Cost/month Total cost 1-month-plan $ 14.95 $ 14.95 3-month-plan $ 12.95 $ 38.85 6-month-plan $ 11.95 $ 71.70 12-month-plan $ 10.95 $ 131.40
just looking at teh 131.40 figure.. $131.40 = ú66.2449 Ç 131.40 = ú104.4179 Ç 131.40= $207.1781(yahoo fiance).
ill be buying my accounts in $ as the rest of us in europe/uk are getting screwed
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speedek
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:29:00 -
[406]
Edited by: speedek on 23/05/2008 13:32:15 14 pages of no's here, 9 pages in Assembly Hall. (and 90% of players don't even know that yet)
Now we will see CCP's care for custumers really.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:31:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou LOL @ The number of eternal quitters.
OH MY GOD SO MANY MORE DOLLARS, WHATEVER WILL WE DO
(Perhaps blame your government for your failing currency?)
Who do I blame when they offer me same numbers only in €? The government for not ******* up the €? This rise has nothing to do with falling dollar and everything to do with a money grab before the game goes down the drain.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:32:00 -
[408]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
Could you point us to the industry standard? Plenty of games are doing 30+90 day GTCs and not a single one has these kind of prices. How stupid do you think your customers are?
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Lt Angus
Wicked Crew
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:41:00 -
[409]
Wahhhh ive just discovered the rest of the world and it doesn't revolve arround me
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Red Desire
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:45:00 -
[410]
Pffftà nice way of telling us to f ourselves, if I wanted wood language I would stay at work or watch some crapy politics channel. Just say the truth, is that hard?
Say : we increased the price of GTC, so all you peeps out there paying with GTCS will have to pay 30% more to play. And yes, we use these 60 day GTC pretext so we can increase prices. We thought you are so dumb you wonÆt notice, also there were those mofos who were leaving 1 big skills to train for 1 month and then reactivate.. cheap bastards, we wanted to get those too. IÆm just appalled how you guys dare to just lie like that to us! PS: For the dummies yelling RMT, people will pay more dollars to get the same ISK from GTC, that means ISK is even more cheaper to buy from sellers and be assured there are enough around to sell it.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:45:00 -
[411]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler This change is being done to simplify the system and attune our product offerings with industry standards, as mentioned in the news. It does not affect any of our other payment options or subscription plans; you can read about those in the FAQ.
Then you wouldn't mind returning the price/day to the same level as the old 90day GTC? ...and your not at all bothered about removing payment options from your customers?
Also: Someone didn't read the thread before posting.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:46:00 -
[412]
Oh dear :/ It was probably not the best idea to just repeat the phrase everyone's been getting annoyed at. I'll re-iterate a post from earlier that would seem useful about now:
They've made the new GTC price in line with the european subscription price. And let's be clear, who actually relies on GTCs? There are only three types of person who buy GTCs: - Americans with no access to a credit card etc. - Europeans buying US codes to play on the cheap by taking advantage of the weak dollar and lack of tax. - Someone buying them to sell for isk in-game.
The first type can now use PayByCash to pay for their subscription and normal sub rates have not changed for US residents. If they can manage to buy a game time code (e.g. through using paypal), they can almost certainly pay ther sub using PayByCash because PayByCash themselves accept payment from sources like paypal. So the first type of person doesn't rely on GTCs at all. The second type (europeans buying cheap gtcs) shouldn't have been happening and was costing CCP a lot of lost revenue as the dollar plumetted.
The third type is the only type legitimately affected by the change, but since the value of those GTCs in isk depends roughly on their cost in dollars, the effect is that people selling GTCS for isk will see little change but those buying them will. People buying gtcs for isk are thus the only group severely affected by the change and to be clear, I'm part of that group and am not too annoyed by the price change.
What I (and I think most people complaining) are averse to is the removal of the 30d and 90d codes. The most important GTC CCP make is the 30d code as it allows players to play eve on a monthly basis without having more than 150m in their wallet. As most players hover around that mark in their wallet, it's reasonable to assume that a large number of people who buy gtcs with isk currently are going to be negatively affected and potentially will be unable to keep subscribed. The 60d gtc is a great idea on its own and it does conform with a large portion of the industry standard. The 30d and 90d codes also conform with that standard, which you can see if you check gtcs for all major mmos. If the prices change on them, people will complain but they'll get over it. I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:46:00 -
[413]
Lol nice wya of trying to word around it wrangler, we just want the variation of time codes back keep the money we want a choice.
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Julian Lynq
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:48:00 -
[414]
i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..
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Kur'Dekaija
Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:50:00 -
[415]
lol so many ppl whining you little babies.
I bet you guys spend more cash for beer in 1 week than the extra cost of EVE in 1 year
But I wouldn't mind having 120 days and bigger GTC available, having to buy every 2 months is annoying.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:51:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 13:52:24
Originally by: Julian Lynq i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..
Oh zing
But seriously, not having a 30d and 90d option is almost assuredly going to harm sales and lose CCP potential profit. There's no need for it, it doesn't cost them any extra to make multiple types of code since it's a virtual good. I'm baffled as to why they would do that.
Originally by: Kur'Dekaija But I wouldn't mind having 120 days and bigger GTC available, having to buy every 2 months is annoying.
You could just buy two at a time I suppose.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:54:00 -
[417]
Lol yeah id support an introduction of a 120day gtc aswell btu i still would like 30 and 90days back they can easily apply a new charge for those.
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Kur'Dekaija
Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:56:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Kur'Dekaija But I wouldn't mind having 120 days and bigger GTC available, having to buy every 2 months is annoying.
You could just buy two at a time I suppose.
that solves it, happy days again
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Johnny Gurkha
Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci
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Posted - 2008.05.23 13:57:00 -
[419]
Originally by: Julian Lynq i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..
Oh dang that's a good one
MCI Recruitment |
Darth Sithus
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:00:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Seetesh Lol yeah id support an introduction of a 120day gtc aswell btu i still would like 30 and 90days back they can easily apply a new charge for those.
Actualy replacing 30d and 90d with 60d and 120d would be good too, but just 60d is just ****.
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Leviathan9
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:05:00 -
[421]
I buy 30days to payy my subs cos its cheaper, in 2 months than it would with the 60day, plus i don't want to have to spend $35 or w/e.. ú19 in one month, yeah i'm one of those people who should be studying and only got a certain amount of cash a month, but i don't see why i should be forced to pay more. Keep the 30days and add in the 60day option. So again i don't wont to have to spend that much money in a month because then i wont have much at all for social life. ----------------------------
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:06:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Kur'Dekaija lol so many ppl whining you little babies.
I bet you guys spend more cash for beer in 1 week than the extra cost of EVE in 1 year
See, this is why I think of EVE (or any MMO, really) as a great investment. They keep me from doing things that will really damage my economy….
Paying for MMO = more money left at the end of the month.
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Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:15:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Johnny Gurkha
Originally by: Julian Lynq i wonder how many people will feel the need to *attune* their number of accounts to *industry standards*..
As per advice i have chosen to now also attune my several accounts to industry standard unless the full wack of game time codes are added back.
P.s. Wrangler i no longer like you, you have let me down.
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iloni atoriandra
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.05.23 14:24:00 -
[424]
$200 a year is more than most people spend on beer a week, thats how much extra it will cost me.
UK people are screwed, cant pay by debit cards so need a credit card. Even if they do use a CC then they have to pay in Euros which the ú is very weak against, or if they pay by cash they have to pay even more and its still in Euros.
They should stop charging things in different currencies, charging $15 and 15 Euros is stupid as the $ is obviously cheaper.
Even by closing 1 account im still paying MORE a year than i was previously with that extra account, why would anyone want to pay more to play less accounts?
CCP are going completely against the market trend, as there are more MMO's out subscriptions prices should DROP as competition heats up between them and companies try to lure their competators customers to themselves. Look at any type of company in a selective market thats in competition with other companies; electric, gas, water, internet, phones packages, cable etc etc and they all try and beat the others on price to get more customers. NOT being competative can infact result with allegations or price fixing and result in investigations for running a monopoly on the market (insert correct word for amount of companies)
This also doesnt look good with Jumpgate Evolution coming out which is the closest MMO to EVE atm so will problly be in the most direct competition with CCP and so will try and lure people away from EVE.
In summary stick to 1 currency for payments, open up more payment options eg Maestro/Switch/Solo/Paypal. Give a variety of payment and subscription options.
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Pak Narhoo
Pacific Starfleet Command
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:06:00 -
[425]
CCP, I don't care (really don not give a fux) for the raise in subscription, but have you truly thought out the 14 day trail memberships???? I for one would had not considered continuing EVE if I had only 1 option left after my first 14 days.. its bad, Its bad politics, its bad not giving people a choice.
Please reconsider!
Originally by: Mr Cleann
When I mine. I like to mine in peace. Not in pieces.
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:07:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Nyphur I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.
Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).
They're not removing the US ETC loophole, they're just nerfing it.
-------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Going Forit
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:12:00 -
[427]
Oh look the sociopathic behaviour ccp encourages is starting to reflect on the employees aswell
Who would have thought
I'm so friggin dissapointed ccp. Don't expect me to write something constructive after a sh*tbomb like this
Wrangler, you're representing your firm regarding the matter, therefore you're subsequently removed from my pretty cool guys list
/thread
//game:(?
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:25:00 -
[428]
Any chance of getting a ccp responce to this, a proper responce not some copy and paste one liner..
people, your customers are upset... respond pls
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:28:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Locii Any chance of getting a ccp responce to this, a proper responce not some copy and paste one liner..
people, your customers are upset... respond pls
an unmoderated live devblog would be fun
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:36:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.
Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).
The problem isn't with the price, it's with the removal of the 30d code altogether. A lot of players relied on there being a short duration code that they could buy with isk they made each month and not all players want to be forced into a longer-term contract of two months at a time. I wouldn't care if they upped the 30d and 90d codes to match the new price levels, the issue is that they're just cancelling it. I can't think of any reason for removing the code entirely.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
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Blank Protection
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.23 15:50:00 -
[431]
Everybody plz stop playing this game!!! More roids and rats for me than and very less lag.
Good job CCP.
**This post belongs in Out of Pod Experience** |
Innaara
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:02:00 -
[432]
Does everyone here actually think that al these responses are going to have any result? CCP has spend to much time on that cold nordic rock so they think they rule the MMO world. They think EVE is the only scifi MMO (monopoly) and can do anything they want. Bad thing is, that that is true and they're doing it right now.
Everyone is complaining that they will quit bla bla bla, but in the end most of us will continue playing.
Until some other SciFi MMO will arise........ hopefully very soon.
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Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:04:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.
Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).
The problem isn't with the price, it's with the removal of the 30d code altogether. A lot of players relied on there being a short duration code that they could buy with isk they made each month and not all players want to be forced into a longer-term contract of two months at a time. I wouldn't care if they upped the 30d and 90d codes to match the new price levels, the issue is that they're just cancelling it. I can't think of any reason for removing the code entirely.
I can, the reason is the same as why T20 got away with what he did, CCP does not care. As long as there is enough people who pay even though they are unhappy, why should they care? http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s72/rorincutter/Cutter-Drew.jpg |
Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:12:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur I really can't see a reason why the 30d code has to be removed entirely and that's the main issue at hand which hasn't really been addressed.
Simple: because CCP would have to raise its price over 20$ to make a European prefer subscribing in Euro with CC (wich is the purpose of all this let's make this clear).
The problem isn't with the price, it's with the removal of the 30d code altogether. A lot of players relied on there being a short duration code that they could buy with isk they made each month and not all players want to be forced into a longer-term contract of two months at a time. I wouldn't care if they upped the 30d and 90d codes to match the new price levels, the issue is that they're just cancelling it. I can't think of any reason for removing the code entirely.
For the flexibility of a 30 days period, we still have the 14.90Ç CC subscription. But that makes a 50% increase for europeans who used to refill with 30d cards paid in dollars.
We can't whine about this. It was good while it lasted. I'll miss my alt tho... -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:25:00 -
[435]
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 16:31:28
Originally by: Princess Gally For the flexibility of a 30 days period, we still have the 14.90Ç CC subscription. But that makes a 50% increase for europeans who used to refill with 30d cards paid in dollars.
We can't whine about this. It was good while it lasted. I'll miss my alt tho...
You're still not getting it. Game time codes are used primarily by people with no access to a credit card, either by buying through alternative purchasing mediums like paypal or by buying them with isk. The lack of a 30d code removes the ability of anyone who relies on GTCS to buy on a monthly basis and removes their ability to buy a code for a small amount of isk. As most players only keep enough isk in their wallets to be able to afford the current 30d code prices, those who rely on them are faced with either increasing their wallet to an average holding of 350m+ (whatever the new price will be for 60d codes) or if they can't do that cancelling their accounts. The former isn't always possible and nobody wants the latter to happen.
Again, I assert that there's absolutely no reason for 30d codes to be removed and that furthermore, there are players who rely on it. Their removal will hurt GTC sales more than simply increasing their prices to match the per day rate of the new 60d code. There's virtually no extra overhead for having additional options for code purchases as they're virtual goods and there are players who want to buy in increments of more or less than 60 days. Removing those options without a good reason for it will harm GTC sales and I can't think of any good reason for their removal. Even from a total greed business perspective, it's a bad decision to simplify the product range when there's no overhead for diversification. If they have a good reason, why aren't they telling us it?
Originally by: Rorin Cutter I can, the reason is the same as why T20 got away with what he did, CCP does not care. As long as there is enough people who pay even though they are unhappy, why should they care?
They're a business out to make a profit working at something they love. I can think of no logical reason for a business to intentionally harm customers at no benefit to themselves. Removing 30d codes as an option provides no apparant benefit to CCP but significantly negatively impacts any players relying on them who can't adapt to using 60d ones. This is why some people are confused and concerned.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Kuseka Adama
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:27:00 -
[436]
*starts handing out cheese for all the whine.*
Seriously we need a friggin fleet of Whaaaaaambulances.
Speaking as an American this doesnt affect me much Though i tend to just pay the current rate no matter what. I subscribe i dont use GTC's. If this means an over all subscription increase is in the future then i might have a problem. Though the fact is cirucmstances are setup so i can pay for a year within the next 3 weeks so i really dont see the problem in all of this. Personally i think the GTC should be eliminated in general. It was a good idea when it started but now its an ISK for RL money device. Some are whining about not being able to choose the amount of time they play.
Thats not true. You arent being allowed to choose at the PRICE you want. A multi monthly subscription runs about the same cost as a GTC. You are free in that time frame to cancel if you choose or at the end of it cancel. I was forced to do it because of net issues last year. I had no problems from CCP in that regard. They did not continue to charge my card i didnt have to go 15 rounds with lawyers.
Dont want to pay more? Tough i wont be surprised if other MMO's do it at some point. Other games you can play online. Hell i have TF2 and supcom in my bag of tricks. I cant comprehend all the responds this thread has gotten. If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.
To the asshats bashing the 'bush' economy as if any other president would of been able to fix matters. I mean come on oil was going to do this no matter what. BTW 1-800-biteme1 is waiting for your complaints. **** happens. Its the real friggin world boys and girls. Either way i am content paying for how i am playing right now. Eliminate the GTC and make this a pure subscriber based game CCP. Lets end a huge avenue for ISK selling right now.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:41:00 -
[437]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 23/05/2008 16:41:55
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 16:31:28
Originally by: Princess Gally For the flexibility of a 30 days period, we still have the 14.90Ç CC subscription. But that makes a 50% increase for europeans who used to refill with 30d cards paid in dollars.
We can't whine about this. It was good while it lasted. I'll miss my alt tho...
You're still not getting it. Game time codes are used primarily by people with no access to a credit card, either by buying through alternative purchasing mediums like paypal or by buying them with isk. The lack of a 30d code removes the ability of anyone who relies on GTCS to buy on a monthly basis and removes their ability to buy a code for a small amount of isk. As most players only keep enough isk in their wallets to be able to afford the current 30d code prices, those who rely on them are faced with either increasing their wallet to an average holding of 350m+ (whatever the new price will be for 60d codes) or if they can't do that cancelling their accounts. The former isn't always possible and nobody wants the latter to happen.
Again, I assert that there's absolutely no reason for 30d codes to be removed and that furthermore, there are players who rely on it. Their removal will hurt GTC sales more than simply increasing their prices to match the per day rate of the new 60d code. There's virtually no extra overhead for having additional options for code purchases as they're virtual goods and there are players who want to buy in increments of more or less than 60 days. Removing those options without a good reason for it will harm GTC sales and I can't think of any good reason for their removal. Even from a total greed business perspective, it's a bad decision to simplify the product range when there's no overhead for diversification. If they have a good reason, why aren't they telling us it?
Originally by: Rorin Cutter I can, the reason is the same as why T20 got away with what he did, CCP does not care. As long as there is enough people who pay even though they are unhappy, why should they care?
They're a business out to make a profit working at something they love. I can think of no logical reason for a business to intentionally harm customers at no benefit to themselves. Removing 30d codes as an option provides no apparant benefit to CCP but significantly negatively impacts any players relying on them who can't adapt to using 60d ones. This is why some people are confused and concerned.
Dont forget the current 30-day GTC sellers will have hard time adjusting to 60-day ones, with so high price difference (from $14.95 to $34.95), i'd say number of people that are selling GTC will also decrease. Only people that are selling mass amounts of GTC wont be effected, but they are already low in numbers.
So overall result will be increased prices in Timecode Bazaar, perhaps too much for some people to maintain their multiple accounts, such as myself.
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Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:42:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Kuseka Adama *starts handing out cheese for all the whine.*
Seriously we need a friggin fleet of Whaaaaaambulances.
Speaking as an American this doesnt affect me much Though i tend to just pay the current rate no matter what. I subscribe i dont use GTC's. If this means an over all subscription increase is in the future then i might have a problem. Though the fact is cirucmstances are setup so i can pay for a year within the next 3 weeks so i really dont see the problem in all of this. Personally i think the GTC should be eliminated in general. It was a good idea when it started but now its an ISK for RL money device. Some are whining about not being able to choose the amount of time they play.
Thats not true. You arent being allowed to choose at the PRICE you want. A multi monthly subscription runs about the same cost as a GTC. You are free in that time frame to cancel if you choose or at the end of it cancel. I was forced to do it because of net issues last year. I had no problems from CCP in that regard. They did not continue to charge my card i didnt have to go 15 rounds with lawyers.
Dont want to pay more? Tough i wont be surprised if other MMO's do it at some point. Other games you can play online. Hell i have TF2 and supcom in my bag of tricks. I cant comprehend all the responds this thread has gotten. If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.
To the asshats bashing the 'bush' economy as if any other president would of been able to fix matters. I mean come on oil was going to do this no matter what. BTW 1-800-biteme1 is waiting for your complaints. **** happens. Its the real friggin world boys and girls. Either way i am content paying for how i am playing right now. Eliminate the GTC and make this a pure subscriber based game CCP. Lets end a huge avenue for ISK selling right now.
I think your missing the point, not everyone has the bank payment option and or a credit card. If you can pay for the next year, thats fine. I can't and thats not fine for me. If GTC's were taken away I wouldn't be playing at all. I need the 30 day option, or I can not play like I do today. It's that simple. I can quit pvp'ing with you... and rat for 60 days to make enough isk for this new card or I can stop playing and go find a game to play somewhere else. I like eve and want to keep playing, I am just not sure that I can:-( |
Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:46:00 -
[439]
if they want to do any changes, maybe this would be good.
time cards 30,60,90 and 120 days a flat fee to all players no matter where they are in teh world of the highest currect rate. 131.40 euros or $205.
we win ccp makes a truck load more cash.. even more than they will through this half baked plan they currently have to strip us of cash
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Kuseka Adama
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:47:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Rorin Cutter
Originally by: Kuseka Adama *starts handing out cheese for all the whine.*
Seriously we need a friggin fleet of Whaaaaaambulances.
Speaking as an American this doesnt affect me much Though i tend to just pay the current rate no matter what. I subscribe i dont use GTC's. If this means an over all subscription increase is in the future then i might have a problem. Though the fact is cirucmstances are setup so i can pay for a year within the next 3 weeks so i really dont see the problem in all of this. Personally i think the GTC should be eliminated in general. It was a good idea when it started but now its an ISK for RL money device. Some are whining about not being able to choose the amount of time they play.
Thats not true. You arent being allowed to choose at the PRICE you want. A multi monthly subscription runs about the same cost as a GTC. You are free in that time frame to cancel if you choose or at the end of it cancel. I was forced to do it because of net issues last year. I had no problems from CCP in that regard. They did not continue to charge my card i didnt have to go 15 rounds with lawyers.
Dont want to pay more? Tough i wont be surprised if other MMO's do it at some point. Other games you can play online. Hell i have TF2 and supcom in my bag of tricks. I cant comprehend all the responds this thread has gotten. If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.
To the asshats bashing the 'bush' economy as if any other president would of been able to fix matters. I mean come on oil was going to do this no matter what. BTW 1-800-biteme1 is waiting for your complaints. **** happens. Its the real friggin world boys and girls. Either way i am content paying for how i am playing right now. Eliminate the GTC and make this a pure subscriber based game CCP. Lets end a huge avenue for ISK selling right now.
I think your missing the point, not everyone has the bank payment option and or a credit card. If you can pay for the next year, thats fine. I can't and thats not fine for me. If GTC's were taken away I wouldn't be playing at all. I need the 30 day option, or I can not play like I do today. It's that simple. I can quit pvp'ing with you... and rat for 60 days to make enough isk for this new card or I can stop playing and go find a game to play somewhere else. I like eve and want to keep playing, I am just not sure that I can:-(
Sorry the legitimate complaints got drowned out for me in the flood of whines. At least you have a reason for this complaint. A lot of the people are probably private isk selers (using GTC's to fund their characters) I dont like the system :-/ I hope you can continue playing by the way.
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 16:57:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Nyphur
You're still not getting it. Game time codes are used primarily by people with no access to a credit card, either by buying through alternative purchasing mediums like paypal or by buying them with isk. The lack of a 30d code removes the ability of anyone who relies on GTCS to buy on a monthly basis and removes their ability to buy a code for a small amount of isk. As most players only keep enough isk in their wallets to be able to afford the current 30d code prices, those who rely on them are faced with either increasing their wallet to an average holding of 350m+ (whatever the new price will be for 60d codes) or if they can't do that cancelling their accounts. The former isn't always possible and nobody wants the latter to happen.
I got your point and my guess is CCP weighted the pro and the cons. While they make it harder to pay playtime with isk (but still possible), they forbid europeans to buy 30 days playtime for 9.45Ç instead of 14.9Ç... I think we can understand CCP choice. Like I said, it was good while it lasted -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Lemony Snicket
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:00:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Kuseka Adama If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.
Thanks for the permission buddy, because I was just about to ask you... whoever you are.
I am a bit concerned about this because I run two accounts, one through monthly subscription and the other through a GTC that I buy with isk. The reason I am concerned is that the price of GTC's (relating to isk) fluctuates so much. I just bought a 3 month for 310 mil a couple of weeks ago since then the prices have gone back up to 400-410 mil. This price fluctuation is recurring. Since the price of the GTC is going to increase in RL currency (per month value) the price for the GTC in isk is going to increase but at what rate and to what level?
I'm guessing the price will be around 400 million isk for 60 days. In this case running the second account may not be worth the hassle of coming up with the difference in isk every two months as you can see if you do the math it is almost twice the cost based on these figures.
What are your estimates?
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:01:00 -
[443]
just make the rest of the world pay teh same as euro players. much better alllround. $205 a year ftw
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:03:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Locii just make the rest of the world pay teh same as euro players. much better alllround. $205 a year ftw
Lol yeah, force the rest of the world to pay in euro
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:05:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Princess Gally I got your point and my guess is CCP weighted the pro and the cons. While they make it harder to pay playtime with isk (but still possible), they forbid europeans to buy 30 days playtime for 9.45Ç instead of 14.9Ç... I think we can understand CCP choice. Like I said, it was good while it lasted
My point went right over your head again. We're not discussing the pros and cons of the old game time code prices versus the new ones. We're discussing the pros and cons of having a single 60d gtc versus having a range of 30, 60 and 90d codes regardless of price concerns. It's very irritating to essentially repeat myself several times and not have the point get across. I don't give a crap what the new codes cost, that's not the issue. The issue is why they removed the option of having a 30d code altogether. After the change, we'll only have 60d codes and there is absolutely no reason for that restriction or simplification.
With regard to considering pros and cons, there are no apparant benefits to CCP of simplifying the system to use only 60d gtcs but there are cons associated with it that I've already gone over twice in separate posts. They could quite easily release 30d, 60d and 90d codes at the same cost per day as the new 60d one and the issue would be resolved with no apparant downside. If they DO have a good reason for canning the 30d and 90d codes that we're just not aware of, why aren't they just coming out and saying it?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Gajowy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:10:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally If they DO have a good reason for canning the 30d and 90d codes that we're just not aware of, why aren't they just coming out and saying it?
I think the reason is that 30d for 20$ will look bad in comparison to other mmos which all are 15$ for 30d
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:10:00 -
[447]
OK, there are two issues - +30% prices - sigle 60D instead of 30/60/90
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:10:00 -
[448]
your right there are no benifits to changing the system to only 60day time codes from a player point of view.. a ccp point of view is that they will make more cash out of the customer base and seems that they dont give a crap what the customer bases thinks
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:14:00 -
[449]
eve is not so cheap everywhere but you don't see people complaining, what we see is ignorant little babies that tell us how cheap it is for them and how they buy more beer in a week.
but hey guess i'll go farm isk so that 2 day old noobs can have the chars you've worked for years making.
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Kurogauna
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:14:00 -
[450]
I'll fill a report to some Video game websites... I'm sure it is a good advertising "Eve online +30% subscription price increase"
Vengeance !
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:16:00 -
[451]
Quote: eve is not so cheap everywhere
Eve, should have the same price everywhere and THEN include the local VAT in the bill.
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:16:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Nyphur
My point went right over your head again. We're not discussing the pros and cons of the old game time code prices versus the new ones. We're discussing the pros and cons of having a single 60d gtc versus having a range of 30, 60 and 90d codes regardless of price concerns. It's very irritating to essentially repeat myself several times and not have the point get across. I don't give a crap what the new codes cost, that's not the issue. The issue is why they removed the option of having a 30d code altogether. After the change, we'll only have 60d codes and there is absolutely no reason for that restriction or simplification.
With regard to considering pros and cons, there are no apparant benefits to CCP of simplifying the system to use only 60d gtcs but there are cons associated with it that I've already gone over twice in separate posts. They could quite easily release 30d, 60d and 90d codes at the same cost per day as the new 60d one and the issue would be resolved with no apparant downside. If they DO have a good reason for canning the 30d and 90d codes that we're just not aware of, why aren't they just coming out and saying it?
If you keep 30days GTC, europeans can keep up buying 30 days of playtime cheaper than a 1 month CC subscription! Is that hard to understand? Sure they could keep selling the 30 days GTC, but in order to make europeans pay the REAL price (aka 14.9Ç for a 30 days period), they'd have to raise the 30d GTC price up to 23.5$ (14.9Ç with current exchange rate), whereas in the US the 30days sub is 14.9$! Can't you see the obvious?
Imo THAT is the reason
Excuse me if i can't write well, i'm not native english. So make an effort please... -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:19:00 -
[453]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 23/05/2008 17:19:21
Quote: but in order to make europeans pay the REAL price (aka 14.9Ç for a 30 days period)
What is the real price ?
14.9Ç or 14.9$ ?
I wonder if i can ask a legal detailled bill to ccp in order to make te VAT clearly appear. It is the LAW, they can't refuse that
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Gajowy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:20:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Princess Gally Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 17:18:01
Originally by: Nyphur
My point went right over your head again. We're not discussing the pros and cons of the old game time code prices versus the new ones. We're discussing the pros and cons of having a single 60d gtc versus having a range of 30, 60 and 90d codes regardless of price concerns. It's very irritating to essentially repeat myself several times and not have the point get across. I don't give a crap what the new codes cost, that's not the issue. The issue is why they removed the option of having a 30d code altogether. After the change, we'll only have 60d codes and there is absolutely no reason for that restriction or simplification.
With regard to considering pros and cons, there are no apparant benefits to CCP of simplifying the system to use only 60d gtcs but there are cons associated with it that I've already gone over twice in separate posts. They could quite easily release 30d, 60d and 90d codes at the same cost per day as the new 60d one and the issue would be resolved with no apparant downside. If they DO have a good reason for canning the 30d and 90d codes that we're just not aware of, why aren't they just coming out and saying it?
If you keep $14.9 30days GTC, europeans can keep up buying 30 days of playtime cheaper than a 1 month CC subscription! Is that hard to understand? Sure they could keep selling the 30 days GTC, but in order to make europeans pay the REAL price (aka 14.9€ for a 30 days period), they'd have to raise the 30d GTC price up to 23.5$ (14.9€ with current exchange rate), whereas in the US the 30days sub is 14.9$! Can't you see the obvious?
Imo THAT is the reason
Excuse me if i can't write well, i'm not native english. So make an effort please...
That doesent make sense, european players still can buy it cheaper, only difference is that it will be 60d tc.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:21:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Quote: eve is not so cheap everywhere
Eve, should have the same price everywhere and THEN include the local VAT in the bill.
yes but you took it out of context ,the monthly sub doesn't mean a movie ticket or 2 beers everywhere like some people think
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:24:00 -
[456]
Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 17:26:00
Originally by: Gajowy
Originally by: Princess Gally Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 17:18:01
Originally by: Nyphur
My point went right over your head again. We're not discussing the pros and cons of the old game time code prices versus the new ones. We're discussing the pros and cons of having a single 60d gtc versus having a range of 30, 60 and 90d codes regardless of price concerns. It's very irritating to essentially repeat myself several times and not have the point get across. I don't give a crap what the new codes cost, that's not the issue. The issue is why they removed the option of having a 30d code altogether. After the change, we'll only have 60d codes and there is absolutely no reason for that restriction or simplification.
With regard to considering pros and cons, there are no apparant benefits to CCP of simplifying the system to use only 60d gtcs but there are cons associated with it that I've already gone over twice in separate posts. They could quite easily release 30d, 60d and 90d codes at the same cost per day as the new 60d one and the issue would be resolved with no apparant downside. If they DO have a good reason for canning the 30d and 90d codes that we're just not aware of, why aren't they just coming out and saying it?
If you keep $14.9 30days GTC, europeans can keep up buying 30 days of playtime cheaper than a 1 month CC subscription! Is that hard to understand? Sure they could keep selling the 30 days GTC, but in order to make europeans pay the REAL price (aka 14.9Ç for a 30 days period), they'd have to raise the 30d GTC price up to 23.5$ (14.9Ç with current exchange rate), whereas in the US the 30days sub is 14.9$! Can't you see the obvious?
Imo THAT is the reason
Excuse me if i can't write well, i'm not native english. So make an effort please...
That doesent make sense, european players still can buy it cheaper, only difference is that it will be 60d tc.
Exactly! That's why I told few pages ago they do not remove the loophole, they're just nerfing it. With the new price it will be 11Ç/month (instead of 9.5) with a 2 month period. That's a very fair price but we will have less free training than with two 30 days GTC. -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:29:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Princess Gally Excuse me if i can't write well, i'm not native english. So make an effort please...
Ah, then I guess you misunderstood what I meant by keeping the 30d gtc at the same price per day as the new 60d gtc. It costs $34.99 for a new 60 day code. That's $0.583167 per day. So the new 30 day code would cost $17.495. CCP don't lose money by making a $17.495 30 day code but having no 30 day code could lose them customers. I am saying that there is NO benefit to CCP gained by having no 30 day code compared to having a 30 day code for 17.495.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Anti Excedrin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:29:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
What is the real price ?
14.9Ç or 14.9$ ?
I wonder if i can ask a legal detailled bill to ccp in order to make te VAT clearly appear. It is the LAW, they can't refuse that
Hey whats the real price on a BMW eh? Why does European delivery cut about 3 grand off the purchase?
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Kiiikoooloool
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:36:00 -
[459]
Quote: Hey whats the real price on a BMW eh? Why does European delivery cut about 3 grand off the purchase?
"What you pay is not the cost, just the amount you can spend in..."
And what if: The real price is always the lower ^ ^. After all, it's the lowest offer that a seller can afford ^ ^.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:38:00 -
[460]
Edited by: Locii on 23/05/2008 17:38:11 well at least the in game time code sellers will be happy. a 30% rise in isk flowing in as we all need more cards.. the rich get richer the poor get poorer... nice work ccp
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Anti Excedrin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:41:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Kiiikoooloool
"What you pay is not the cost, just the amount you can spend in..."
And what if: The real price is always the lower ^ ^. After all, it's the lowest offer that a seller can afford ^ ^.
The real price is simply the price you personally manage to pay. The real cost is how much it costs the manufacturer to create the product. The profit is the difference. Fun fun.
CCP could probably afford much closer to $5 USD than anyone of us would like to admit. As I've said a great many times in this thread. Server costs are mainly a fixed cost. Each additional account has a tiny marginal cost. Other businesses with similiar cost structures pretty much live and die based off their ability to enact price discrimination.
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Vito Parabellum
Fivrelde Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:43:00 -
[462]
Edited by: Vito Parabellum on 23/05/2008 17:44:09
Haha another boneheaded move, probably decided during a CCP beerparty (AKA lunch).
------ We live in an expanding universe. All of it is trying to get away from Chuck Norris.
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Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 17:46:00 -
[463]
Quote: CCP beerparty (AKA lunch)
Anyway...
I really would like to know the exact margin profit ^ ^. I don't know about you, but i have a strange feeling in my backside.
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Rebel Mojo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:01:00 -
[464]
i posted something about this, but cant find it, anyways:
Its called PAY MORE get LESS, the "attune our product offerings with industry standards" is my friends, pure grade BS politician talk to increase prices.
Now, i would go back to the credit card method, but since the security "fix" ccp yet again jodio up that service and i get a not authorized banning for using the same credit card i have used up to that "fix" (for a year).
TBH trying to get a service from ccp feels like handling some goverment agency...and im paying for it!!!
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DogSlime
Wilde Cards
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:06:00 -
[465]
I can see why prices need to rise. Prices are going up in general (oil, anyone?), and CCP is (supposedly) investing in new server/network architecture...
...but why get rid of 30 and 90 day cards?
Once again, the only answer that I can think of is that they don't give a damn about their user-base, and they are stupid.
I can't think of them any other way since the boot.ini debacle and stuff like this just re-inforces that opinion.
Seems like Eve is successful in spite of - not because of - the decisions they make as a company.
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Hasak Rain
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:08:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Kuseka Adama If you want to leave leave. I really could give a damn there are plenty of people playing.
Thanks for the permission buddy, because I was just about to ask you... whoever you are.
I am a bit concerned about this because I run two accounts, one through monthly subscription and the other through a GTC that I buy with isk. The reason I am concerned is that the price of GTC's (relating to isk) fluctuates so much. I just bought a 3 month for 310 mil a couple of weeks ago since then the prices have gone back up to 400-410 mil. This price fluctuation is recurring. Since the price of the GTC is going to increase in RL currency (per month value) the price for the GTC in isk is going to increase but at what rate and to what level?
I'm guessing the price will be around 400 million isk for 60 days. In this case running the second account may not be worth the hassle of coming up with the difference in isk every two months as you can see if you do the math it is almost twice the cost based on these figures.
What are your estimates?
400 million isk divided by 2 months is 50 million isk a week. That is basically two lvl 4 Worlds Collides a week to pay for the GTC.
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Anti Excedrin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:17:00 -
[467]
Originally by: DogSlime
I can see why prices need to rise. Prices are going up in general (oil, anyone?),
Just shut up. Shut up right now. You know jack **** about how prices work. Rising price of oil has little effect on the cost of an MMO subscription.
Also just to rub it in the European faces just a little bit more. Aussies pay 14.95 Australian dollars. Which is only 14.37 US dollars. Oh now. Lets everyone now ***** about the evil Aussies paying even less than Americans!
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:20:00 -
[468]
I have not seen anyone mention a Pay As You Go(Visa,Master Card..etc etc)
Could a card system such as this help the people who do not own a standard credit card?
I admit I know little about how Pay As You Go card systems work.
Just a possible work around for some people that occured to me.
Cheers
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Mystri
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:23:00 -
[469]
Why are people throwing the figure of 30%-38% increase in price?
Maths 101:
$14.95 x 2 = $29.90 --> $34.95 / $29.90 = 1.1702 (17%) $34.99 / 2 = $17.495 --> $17.495 / $14.95 = 1.1702 (17%)
$14.95 x 17% (1.170234) = $17.495 x 2 = $34.99
Note in my 'economic reasons' in this thread, that the USD-ISK value has also decreased by 17%. Coincidence?
CCP could start charging USD price of $17.50 for monthly subs, but they won't. Plus the fact that people with an IQ lower than their shoe size would start moaning that they are paying $2.50 more than Europeans. Europeans already pay $23.53 (Ç14.95 x $1.5744) per month.
$2.50 per month. What's the minimum wage is the US? Varies by state it seems. Let's be conservative and use the Federal amount of $5.85. So roughly an extra half hour's wage then...
[sarcasm] Hey wait a minute, let's balance this thread out!
I'm a European, why am i subsidising the US subscribers? Jack up the US price to $23.50 per month! Yeah, screw them! CCP aren't running a charity, it's a business! [/sarcasm]
This thread has gone on longer than it should. It's not Wrangler or the Devs you need to argue with, it's the accountant(s). They are running the show.
Mystri |
Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:25:00 -
[470]
Quote: To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards, CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD.
LOL 60-day time code for wow is 30$USD
AND re-lol http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/world_of_warcraft
Don't tell me the price difference is only VAT. I really don't believe it.
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Anti Excedrin
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:30:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Khudo Don't tell me the price difference between US en EU version is only VAT, in the previous link . I really don't believe it.
No one has said it is the difference is only VAT. But VAT does make up half of the difference. EVE is a world-wide product. The same products cost different amounts in different regions. Having a single global price-point doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
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StinkFinger
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:31:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Mystri Why are people throwing the figure of 30%-38% increase in price?
Maths 101:
$14.95 x 2 = $29.90 --> $34.95 / $29.90 = 1.1702 (17%) $34.99 / 2 = $17.495 --> $17.495 / $14.95 = 1.1702 (17%)
$14.95 x 17% (1.170234) = $17.495 x 2 = $34.99
Note in my 'economic reasons' in this thread, that the USD-ISK value has also decreased by 17%. Coincidence?
CCP could start charging USD price of $17.50 for monthly subs, but they won't. Plus the fact that people with an IQ lower than their shoe size would start moaning that they are paying $2.50 more than Europeans. Europeans already pay $23.53 (Ç14.95 x $1.5744) per month.
$2.50 per month. What's the minimum wage is the US? Varies by state it seems. Let's be conservative and use the Federal amount of $5.85. So roughly an extra half hour's wage then...
[sarcasm] Hey wait a minute, let's balance this thread out!
I'm a European, why am i subsidising the US subscribers? Jack up the US price to $23.50 per month! Yeah, screw them! CCP aren't running a charity, it's a business! [/sarcasm]
This thread has gone on longer than it should. It's not Wrangler or the Devs you need to argue with, it's the accountant(s). They are running the show.
90 day gtcs are 38.50 the new 60 day ones are 34.95
30 fewer days for 3.55 less
that's the complaint
and thats where u get the 30-38% number
perhaps u should of take reading comprehension 101 as well?
Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:31:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Mystri Why are people throwing the figure of 30%-38% increase in price?
Maths 101:
$14.95 x 2 = $29.90 --> $34.95 / $29.90 = 1.1702 (17%) $34.99 / 2 = $17.495 --> $17.495 / $14.95 = 1.1702 (17%)
$14.95 x 17% (1.170234) = $17.495 x 2 = $34.99
Note in my 'economic reasons' in this thread, that the USD-ISK value has also decreased by 17%. Coincidence?
CCP could start charging USD price of $17.50 for monthly subs, but they won't. Plus the fact that people with an IQ lower than their shoe size would start moaning that they are paying $2.50 more than Europeans. Europeans already pay $23.53 (Ç14.95 x $1.5744) per month.
$2.50 per month. What's the minimum wage is the US? Varies by state it seems. Let's be conservative and use the Federal amount of $5.85. So roughly an extra half hour's wage then...
[sarcasm] Hey wait a minute, let's balance this thread out!
I'm a European, why am i subsidising the US subscribers? Jack up the US price to $23.50 per month! Yeah, screw them! CCP aren't running a charity, it's a business! [/sarcasm]
This thread has gone on longer than it should. It's not Wrangler or the Devs you need to argue with, it's the accountant(s). They are running the show.
your point of view is wrong and you are also lazy for not reading the thread
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:32:00 -
[474]
Originally by: DogSlime ...but why get rid of 30 and 90 day cards? Once again, the only answer that I can think of is that they don't give a damn about their user-base, and they are stupid. I can't think of them any other way since the boot.ini debacle and stuff like this just re-inforces that opinion. Seems like Eve is successful in spite of - not because of - the decisions they make as a company.
While I agree with the sentiment regarding 30d codes being removed, I think your experiences of CCP are coloured by confirmation bias. If you only notice when something negative happens and not when something positive happens, you'd get the false impression that negative things are more common than positive ones. For example, if you encounter a dozen new bugs with a patch and focus on that, you could say their testing failed. However, for each bug that makes it through you can be guaranteed that a hundred more were found and fixed before the patch. If you only see bugs that make it through, you could get a false impression that QA failed.
I think you notice when CCP slips up and not when they don't. Over five years of EVE have gone by and for the most part, each week has been met without a major problem. Even if dozens of major problems have occured over the years, the majority of the time CCP don't screw up and you don't even hear about it or notice it. Nobody makes a big deal out of it when they do their jobs well, only when they don't.
Additionally, the fact that issues occur is not a valid judging criterion. Problems will invariably occur, the only valid judgement criteria would be how those issues are dealt with. In this specific case, the way this issue has been dealt with is extremely poor. The only official response was to repeat the announcement that people had issues with, which is considered offensive and arrogant where I live. However, in the boot.ini case you cited, the handling of that disaster was perfect. An unknown, unintended bug went out that didn't occur when testing in-house for some reason. They pulled the patch pretty quickly and made announcements in the player news center, forum stickies, in-game news and login MOTD.
They analysed the problem, released a fixed patch and dealt with the aftermath. They then transparantly explained the problem, which turned out to be an obscure quirk of the syntax that a piece of code in the installer uses which had never caused problems before. One fellow I remember saying he didn't realise eve had broken his computer and paid a specialist $200 to fix it. He said CCP then credited his account with over $200 of game time as an apology. You can't really be angry that an unforseen problem occured, only if it was handled badly.
Right now, they still have time to handle the issue well but so far they've done a pretty crappy job of it. There's still time to reinstate the 30d and 90d gtcs at the new higher price rate and apologise for the delay in making that decision.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
StinkFinger
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:34:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: DogSlime ...but why get rid of 30 and 90 day cards? Once again, the only answer that I can think of is that they don't give a damn about their user-base, and they are stupid. I can't think of them any other way since the boot.ini debacle and stuff like this just re-inforces that opinion. Seems like Eve is successful in spite of - not because of - the decisions they make as a company.
While I agree with the sentiment regarding 30d codes being removed, I think your experiences of CCP are coloured by confirmation bias. If you only notice when something negative happens and not when something positive happens, you'd get the false impression that negative things are more common than positive ones. For example, if you encounter a dozen new bugs with a patch and focus on that, you could say their testing failed. However, for each bug that makes it through you can be guaranteed that a hundred more were found and fixed before the patch. If you only see bugs that make it through, you could get a false impression that QA failed.
I think you notice when CCP slips up and not when they don't. Over five years of EVE have gone by and for the most part, each week has been met without a major problem. Even if dozens of major problems have occured over the years, the majority of the time CCP don't screw up and you don't even hear about it or notice it. Nobody makes a big deal out of it when they do their jobs well, only when they don't.
Additionally, the fact that issues occur is not a valid judging criterion. Problems will invariably occur, the only valid judgement criteria would be how those issues are dealt with. In this specific case, the way this issue has been dealt with is extremely poor. The only official response was to repeat the announcement that people had issues with, which is considered offensive and arrogant where I live. However, in the boot.ini case you cited, the handling of that disaster was perfect. An unknown, unintended bug went out that didn't occur when testing in-house for some reason. They pulled the patch pretty quickly and made announcements in the player news center, forum stickies, in-game news and login MOTD.
They analysed the problem, released a fixed patch and dealt with the aftermath. They then transparantly explained the problem, which turned out to be an obscure quirk of the syntax that a piece of code in the installer uses which had never caused problems before. One fellow I remember saying he didn't realise eve had broken his computer and paid a specialist $200 to fix it. He said CCP then credited his account with over $200 of game time as an apology. You can't really be angry that an unforseen problem occured, only if it was handled badly.
Right now, they still have time to handle the issue well but so far they've done a pretty crappy job of it. There's still time to reinstate the 30d and 90d gtcs at the new higher price rate and apologise for the delay in making that decision.
the prob im having with them is that they tried to hide the price increase behind some marketing jargon....please, we're not all that stupid...if ccp wanted to increase gtc prices, just say so...the way they went about it is beyond idiotic.
Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
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Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:38:00 -
[476]
MATH 102
Old 90 days GTC = 39$. -> Around 0.43$ per day
New 60 days GTC = 35$ -> Around 0.58$ per day
Difference -> +0,15$ / day
Do the math Net increase +34%
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:40:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Princess Gally And again, that seems fair to me. Now I understand that with the new system you'll have to gather more isk (60 days instead of 30) to afford an increased price (in $ and so in isk) playtime. And I understand that bothers you. But instead of blaming CCP, blame players like me who have exploited the loophole and made CCP react
*facepalm* It's clear to me that the language barrier here is insurmountable. I've made the same point several different ways and you're responding to it as if I said something completely different. We're not going to make any progress debating this because you don't understand what I'm saying. Four times is enough, I give up.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Kiiikoooloool
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:40:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Khudo MATH 102
Old 90 days GTC = 39$. -> Around 0.43$ per day
New 60 days GTC = 35$ -> Around 0.58$ per day
Difference -> +0,15$ / day
Do the math Net increase +34%
LOL true, the other 101 math guy and his +17% isn't in the truth.
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:42:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally And again, that seems fair to me. Now I understand that with the new system you'll have to gather more isk (60 days instead of 30) to afford an increased price (in $ and so in isk) playtime. And I understand that bothers you. But instead of blaming CCP, blame players like me who have exploited the loophole and made CCP react
*facepalm* It's clear to me that the language barrier here is insurmountable. I've made the same point several different ways and you're responding to it as if I said something completely different. We're not going to make any progress debating this because you don't understand what I'm saying. Four times is enough, I give up.
Agreed. Facepalm as much as you want I think I've explained why they can't let the 30 days GTC, even with a slight increase in the price.
Whatever, you can't see any other point of view than yours anw -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Mystri
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:43:00 -
[480]
Originally by: StinkFinger 90 day gtcs are 38.50 the new 60 day ones are 34.95
30 fewer days for 3.55 less
that's the complaint
and thats where u get the 30-38% number
perhaps u should of take reading comprehension 101 as well?
My point was you are still getting a bargain, not the same as what you were, but still a bargain.
When the smoke blows over people will just have to accept it.
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger your point of view is wrong and you are also lazy for not reading the thread
Thanks for your opinion of my opinion, but it's my opinion none the less.
Yeah, like i'm going to read 500 posts... Mystri |
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DogSlime
Wilde Cards
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:43:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Nyphur
Additionally, the fact that issues occur is not a valid judging criterion. Problems will invariably occur, the only valid judgement criteria would be how those issues are dealt with. In this specific case, the way this issue has been dealt with is extremely poor. The only official response was to repeat the announcement that people had issues with, which is considered offensive and arrogant where I live. However, in the boot.ini case you cited, the handling of that disaster was perfect. An unknown, unintended bug went out that didn't occur when testing in-house for some reason. They pulled the patch pretty quickly and made announcements in the player news center, forum stickies, in-game news and login MOTD.
They analysed the problem, released a fixed patch and dealt with the aftermath. They then transparantly explained the problem, which turned out to be an obscure quirk of the syntax that a piece of code in the installer uses which had never caused problems before. One fellow I remember saying he didn't realise eve had broken his computer and paid a specialist $200 to fix it. He said CCP then credited his account with over $200 of game time as an apology. You can't really be angry that an unforseen problem occured, only if it was handled badly.
I disagree. An unforseen problem occurred with the installer... fine. The effect of the bug was MAJOR. How can the testing department not notice that some of the test machines can't reboot once the patch is applied?
As far as I know, it was because CCP rushed out a new install script right before the patch was released, and this script hadn't gone through the proper testing. This is really BAD practice.
CCP might have done a good job with the aftermath, but the fact that this critical bug reached the end-users is down to sloppy working practice, and not due to an "unforseen problem" occurring.
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Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:45:00 -
[482]
I saw this topic in the CSM forum and it seems pretty popular over there. Then it struck me...
What if CCP is only doing this to test out CSM's functions? Give us a topic to discuss that is almost -certainly- going to go one way, just to see how the new electees respond to it.
/tinfoil
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:47:00 -
[483]
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 18:53:38
Originally by: Princess Gally Whatever, you can't see any other point of view than yours anw
EDIT: I apologise, I misread your last post a little. Let me just re-read it.
Originally by: DogSlime I disagree. An unforseen problem occurred with the installer... fine. The effect of the bug was MAJOR. How can the testing department not notice that some of the test machines can't reboot once the patch is applied?
Because the test machines DID reboot when the patch was applied. That's why it's called an unforseen problem - because it was unforseen. The severity of the problem are entirely inconsequential - the fact that appropriate measures were taken when an unforseen problem happened means they did a good job of handling the situation. You can't fault someone for making an unforseen mistake, only for dealing with the aftermath badly.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Princess Gally
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:53:00 -
[484]
Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 18:53:50 Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 18:53:00
Originally by: Nyphur Europeans abusing the loophole to get cheap game time is a case for increasing the price of game time codes, NOT for abolishing the existance of 30 or 90 day codes.
Yes it is Sir, because europeans will stop exploiting the loophole only if the price if over $21 (equivalent to price of a 30 days CC sub in Ç). Do you really think ccp will sell $21 gtc when the CC sub is $14.9? Do I have to give you a reason for that? -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Kiiikoooloool
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:54:00 -
[485]
@princess
http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/world_of_warcraft
well, in wow, europeans pay 25% more than Us versions.......
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Ehronn
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.23 18:57:00 -
[486]
just wish they'd keep a 30 day option open also even if I have to pay more :(
-----------------------
Dysfunctional Playground |
Princess Gally
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:59:00 -
[487]
Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 19:02:43 Edited by: Princess Gally on 23/05/2008 19:00:05
Originally by: Kiiikoooloool @princess
http://www.shatteredcrystal.com/code.php/world_of_warcraft
well, in wow, europeans pay 25% more than Us versions.......
Yes and that's exactly what CCP is trying to do.
60days WOW european gtc = $41 = 26Ç. The 30 days CC sub for WOW is 12.9Ç. So europeans can't exploit a loophole here...
GTC here only purpose is to allow players without a CC to play. It's not cheaper. That's my point -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Kiiikoooloool
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:01:00 -
[488]
Quote:
Yes and that's exactly what CCP is trying to do.
so CCP = Blizzard ?
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Lemony Snicket
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:01:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
I'm guessing the price will be around 400 million isk for 60 days. In this case running the second account may not be worth the hassle of coming up with the difference in isk every two months as you can see if you do the math it is almost twice the cost based on these figures.
What are your estimates?
400 million isk divided by 2 months is 50 million isk a week. That is basically two lvl 4 Worlds Collides a week to pay for the GTC.
Sure, somewhat of an easy solution if I could choose my missions
We could also break it down to a little over 6.6 million isk per day vs 4.4 mil at those figures which sounds minimal. But the truth is it is not. It is a considerable increase. These figures are of course based on my estimated price of a 60d GTC.
No matter how you look at it we (those who buy GTC's with isk) are going to be paying more for the same service. And for the casual player that does not hold a nice BPO, or have access to deep 0.0 mins/rats the increase amounts to more than the figures show.
_
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:02:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur Europeans abusing the loophole to get cheap game time is a case for increasing the price of game time codes, NOT for abolishing the existance of 30 or 90 day codes.
Yes it is Sir, because europeans will stop exploiting the loophole only if the price if over $21 (equivalent to price of a 30 days CC sub in Ç). Do you really think ccp will sell $21 gtc when the CC sub is $14.9? Do I have to give you a reason for that?
Let me get this straight so there are no misconceptions here. Your main arguments are:
1) It's alright to charge $34.99 for a 60 day code ($17.495 per 30 days) but not to charge $17.495 for a 30 day code. 2) European players should not have the flexability of paying on a 30 day basis without paying a higher rate of 14.99 euros per month. 3) Americans won't buy a 30 day game time code at 14.99 euros ($21) so it has to be scrapped. 4) The loophole allowing europeans to play for cheap using game time codes is only being abused if you're buying 30 day codes and this is not an issue with 60 day codes.
Is that right? Are those your arguments or am I misunderstanding them?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
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Kiiikoooloool
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Posted - 2008.05.23 19:06:00 -
[491]
What is the margin of the GTC re seller ?
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:10:00 -
[492]
Edited by: Nyphur on 23/05/2008 19:10:26
Originally by: Kiiikoooloool What is the margin of the GTC re seller ?
Im just trying to guess how cheap CCP could sell us their sub
Judging by the shatteredcrystal affiliate thing that pays a percentage on any sale, their margins are probably such that a 90d code currently costs $35 or less for them to buy in. Otherwise they don't make much on it at all.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Princess Gally
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:13:00 -
[493]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Princess Gally
Originally by: Nyphur Europeans abusing the loophole to get cheap game time is a case for increasing the price of game time codes, NOT for abolishing the existance of 30 or 90 day codes.
Yes it is Sir, because europeans will stop exploiting the loophole only if the price if over $21 (equivalent to price of a 30 days CC sub in Ç). Do you really think ccp will sell $21 gtc when the CC sub is $14.9? Do I have to give you a reason for that?
Let me get this straight so there are no misconceptions here. Your main arguments are:
1) It's alright to charge $34.99 for a 60 day code ($17.495 per 30 days) but not to charge $17.495 for a 30 day code. 2) European players should not have the flexability of paying on a 30 day basis without paying a higher rate of 14.99 euros per month. 3) Americans won't buy a 30 day game time code at 14.99 euros ($21) so it has to be scrapped. 4) The loophole allowing europeans to play for cheap using game time codes is only being abused if you're buying 30 day codes and this is not an issue with 60 day codes.
Is that right? Are those your arguments or am I misunderstanding them?
1) I'm not saying it's good or bad, I try to understand. To be coherent CCP should have remove completely GTC. But they obviously cannot. So they nerfed. 2) Exactly, that's the key imho 3) No. It has to be scrapped because it's totally uncoherent. The only reason they would let it is to make the raise less hard for you guys who pay their account with isk. And that's not their priority, obviously. 4) Yes like i said, it's still an abuse but they can't possibly remove the GTC system like i said in 1) Because GTC exists for a reason, let ppl with few time to have isk w/o farming and let ppl with lots of time to play free (but i think they want to nerf the last case too. They want $ rather than ppl spending time on their servers) -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Aldelphius
Carbide Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:16:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Jakus Orellius Edited by: Jakus Orellius on 22/05/2008 19:05:20 Edited by: Jakus Orellius on 22/05/2008 18:58:57
Originally by: Lykah Storm LOL
How poor are you guys? Can't afford 17.5 dollars per month for internet game? LMAO
It's called edu-kay-shun.
Then mabey yoiu should be studying instead of playing a game you apparently cant afford...
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Lemony Snicket
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:17:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Mystri
Originally by: StinkFinger 90 day gtcs are 38.50 the new 60 day ones are 34.95
30 fewer days for 3.55 less
that's the complaint
and thats where u get the 30-38% number
perhaps u should of take reading comprehension 101 as well?
My point was you are still getting a bargain, not the same as what you were, but still a bargain.
When the smoke blows over people will just have to accept it.
Thanks for your opinion of my opinion, but it's my opinion none the less.
Yeah, like i'm going to read 500 posts...
You Sir have no idea what a bargain is... I do however, have a packaged Raven I can sell you for 135 mil isk.. its a great bargain just a slight increase in price is all, about 30% give or take.
_
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Sprobe
Panta-Rhei Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.23 19:18:00 -
[496]
Introduction of 60 day GTC means that we have to pay more for the same service. This isn't acceptable.
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Khudo
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:21:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Sprobe Introduction of 60 day GTC means that we have to pay more for the same service. This isn't acceptable.
Yeah As i said ... +34%
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Mystri
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:30:00 -
[498]
Edited by: Mystri on 23/05/2008 19:36:04
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Mystri
Originally by: StinkFinger 90 day gtcs are 38.50 the new 60 day ones are 34.95
30 fewer days for 3.55 less
that's the complaint
and thats where u get the 30-38% number
perhaps u should of take reading comprehension 101 as well?
My point was you are still getting a bargain, not the same as what you were, but still a bargain.
When the smoke blows over people will just have to accept it.
You Sir have no idea what a bargain is... I do however, have a packaged Raven I can sell you for 135 mil isk.. its a great bargain just a slight increase in price is all, about 30% give or take.
_
Quote my original post in context if you are going to comment. Paying in USD is still going to be a bargain compared to paying in Euros. Mystri |
Xavier Isaacson
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:41:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
CCP please consider raising the price on this new 60 day gtc to 40 USD.
As it is has become apparent in this thread that the leechers have no appreciation for what you have allowed them to do in the past it would be appropriate to take that privelage away or at the very least charge a high premium.
Afterall, it isn't like these people are actually committed to the game like cc paying customers are so why should they not have to pay a premium? It is the dedicated, committed cc paying customers that allow CCP to count on revenue projections. GTC leechers on the otherhand are free to cancel at any time, abuse the skill training system by putting their accounts into 'hibernation' and abuse game resources farming isk to buy GTCs off people with money.
So, like many others who pay for the game via the preferred way of using a cc, it is finally somethign we can see that it is a move in the right direction to improving the game.
And for those who will whine because they don't have a credit card:
1. Your poor credit is not our problem 2. Your lack of a job is not our problem 3. Mommy and daddy should have a right to limit your playing ability 4. If you are a 'poor' student then you should be studying anyhow 5. Low income smokers have it way worse and they manage so quit your complaining
you are sir are a high grade moron. i cant say anything else because all i want to do is pound your sanctimonius elitist head into rush hour traffic. gdiaf
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Terail Zoqial
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:53:00 -
[500]
I'm not against the increase of price at all, getting rid of 30 day cards is a massive pain in the arse though.
You never know when life is going to bone you, or life circumstances change. The 30 day card is pure awesome and it will be missed sorely by many.
Please just jack up the price, I haven't read all the posts yet, so if there have been any developments which indicate 30 day gtc's stays, huzzah!, if not, I will remain most unhappy.
|
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:57:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Princess Gally 1) I'm not saying it's good or bad, I try to understand. To be coherent CCP should have remove completely GTC. But they obviously cannot. So they nerfed. 2) Exactly, that's the key imho 3) No. It has to be scrapped because it's totally uncoherent. The only reason they would let it is to make the raise less hard for you guys who pay their account with isk. And that's not their priority, obviously. 4) Yes like i said, it's still an abuse but they can't possibly remove the GTC system like i said in 1) Because GTC exists for a reason, let ppl with few time to have isk w/o farming and let ppl with lots of time to play free (but i think they want to nerf the last case too. They want $ rather than ppl spending time on their servers)
Alright, I'd like to address point 2 and 4 then.
Point 2, that european players should pay a premium to play on a 30 day cycle, is your opinion and is not substantiated by any announcement. You personally think europeans should be unable to pay for one month at a time without paying extra for it but that's not CCP's official position. Their official position is that the reason for the 30d being abolished was to simplify the product range and not because they think europeans should pay more for the privilege of paying monthly. Furthermore, that point ignores two key issues:- The players who rely on game time codes are the ones that can't sign up for a normal subscription. They don't have the option of paying 14.99 euros per 30 days.
- If the issue is only with 30 day codes, why was the 90 day code removed?
Point 4 seems to misunderstand the purposes of the game time code. It was designed to give people an alternative way of paying for the game if they didn't have access to a credit card. It wasn't until much later that they allowed them to be traded for isk so that people without a lot of money could still play the game if they made enough isk. Since every game time code has to be purchased by SOMEONE, CCP don't lose any money when people use them instead of paying for their account with cash. Even if you buy the code off someone for isk, they had to pay cash for it so CCP don't lost out on any money.
Also, the loophole was not only abusable using 30 day codes. The loophole was that europeans buying US 30 or 90 day game time codes could play cheaper than if they subscribed normally. It was never about duration, in fact the 30 day code was slightly more expensive per day and it was most cost-effective to buy the 90 day one. The issue at hand is why we can't get a new 30 day code option for the large number of players who currently rely on them. Just go to the GTC forum and look at all the 30d codes that are sold daily and you'll see how big the market is for them despite 90 day ones being more cost-effective. Those are all the people affected and each one is a potential lost account that could go inactive as their sub time runs out.
For my counter-argument, I'd like to re-iterate a point from earlier. There is no monetary benefit to CCP from removing the 30d gtc option. Players who rely on them can't switch to a 30d CC sub so they can't pay that premium. They'll have to switch to 60d gtcs instead, but if they can't afford them then that's a potential lost account. It doesn't cost CCP any extra to provide the option of buying in increments of 30 days. There is no good reason not to give us a 30d gtc in principle (ignoring prices for the moment).
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Kiiikoooloool
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:03:00 -
[502]
But ccp have a monetary benefit to remove 90 days GTC (+34% )
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Lemony Snicket
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:07:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Mystri Edited by: Mystri on 23/05/2008 19:36:04
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Mystri
Originally by: StinkFinger 90 day gtcs are 38.50 the new 60 day ones are 34.95
30 fewer days for 3.55 less
that's the complaint
and thats where u get the 30-38% number
perhaps u should of take reading comprehension 101 as well?
My point was you are still getting a bargain, not the same as what you were, but still a bargain.
When the smoke blows over people will just have to accept it.
You Sir have no idea what a bargain is... I do however, have a packaged Raven I can sell you for 135 mil isk.. its a great bargain just a slight increase in price is all, about 30% give or take.
_
Quote my original post in context if you are going to comment. Paying in USD is still going to be a bargain compared to paying in Euros.
LOL.. that is not a bargain. The USD is WORTH less than the Euro. But hey, we won't take face value into consideration (or in your case math) we'll just compare numbers... I've got a better offer for you than the Raven, I'll give you 100.00 USD in exchange for 100.00 Euro's.. deal?
_
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:21:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Kiiikoooloool But ccp have a monetary benefit to remove 90 days GTC (+34% )
Compared to increasing the price to be in line with the new 60d code, removing the 90d code provides no benefit.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Snarker
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:27:00 -
[505]
I loved being able to pay in small 30 day increments of time. Please do not remove this, CCP. ----------------------------------------
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Mystri
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:30:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Mystri
Quote my original post in context if you are going to comment. Paying in USD is still going to be a bargain compared to paying in Euros.
LOL.. that is not a bargain. The USD is WORTH less than the Euro. But hey, we won't take face value into consideration (or in your case math) we'll just compare numbers... I've got a better offer for you than the Raven, I'll give you 100.00 USD in exchange for 100.00 Euro's.. deal?
That's right, the USD is worth less than the Euro. So when i hand over 100USD it costs me 63EUR. Or when i hand over 100EUR i get 157USD.
So if i buy a $34.99 GTC, it costs me Ç22.18. That's cheaper than buying 2 x Ç14.95 subscriptions.
Over to you.
Mystri |
Saipil
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:32:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Saipil on 23/05/2008 20:33:01
Originally by: Mystri
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Mystri
Quote my original post in context if you are going to comment. Paying in USD is still going to be a bargain compared to paying in Euros.
LOL.. that is not a bargain. The USD is WORTH less than the Euro. But hey, we won't take face value into consideration (or in your case math) we'll just compare numbers... I've got a better offer for you than the Raven, I'll give you 100.00 USD in exchange for 100.00 Euro's.. deal?
That's right, the USD is worth less than the Euro. So when i hand over 100USD it costs me 63EUR. Or when i hand over 100EUR i get 157USD.
So if i buy a $34.99 GTC, it costs me Ç22.18. That's cheaper than buying 2 x Ç14.95 subscriptions.
Over to you.
but 30% more expensive than buying 1 x $38 90 day code from us-based websites
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Eevul Rabbite
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:45:00 -
[508]
Edited by: Eevul Rabbite on 23/05/2008 20:54:27 OK, the real problem CCP is facing is that evil Europeans are abusing the GTC system to pay "less" for the game. Lets look at the reasons maybe. Why is CCP the only company having this problem, anyway?
If you look at the prices of monthly subscriptions of other games, they all look more or less like this:
14.99 USD / 12.99 EUR / 8.99 GBP
This applies to both American and European companies. CCP is the only company that I know of that charges 15/15. No, it's not VAT. Other companies have to pay VAT as well, which is why the price in Euros is usually 11-13, not 9. EDIT: small correction, Funcom is charging similarly, although they're fair with the tax, which is applicable only when it should be.
If CCP provides fair pricing for customers in different currency zones, people will stop going around their system to pay less. Before you start going on how this is impossible because of currency fluctuations - somehow it is possible for every MMO company out there, at least for the three major currencies (USD/EUR/GBP).
The current CC subscription pricing and upcoming GTC changes throw the responsibility for weak dollar on European customers and additionally hurt people who rely on GTCs, which is a bit absurd tbh.
"To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards...". Obvious lie is obvious.
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Mystri
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Posted - 2008.05.23 20:56:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Saipil Edited by: Saipil on 23/05/2008 20:33:01
Originally by: Mystri
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Mystri
Quote my original post in context if you are going to comment. Paying in USD is still going to be a bargain compared to paying in Euros.
LOL.. that is not a bargain. The USD is WORTH less than the Euro. But hey, we won't take face value into consideration (or in your case math) we'll just compare numbers... I've got a better offer for you than the Raven, I'll give you 100.00 USD in exchange for 100.00 Euro's.. deal?
That's right, the USD is worth less than the Euro. So when i hand over 100USD it costs me 63EUR. Or when i hand over 100EUR i get 157USD.
So if i buy a $34.99 GTC, it costs me Ç22.18. That's cheaper than buying 2 x Ç14.95 subscriptions.
Over to you.
but 30% more expensive than buying 1 x $38 90 day code from us-based websites
At least your civil.
But i'm still saving money over my own currency.
The people who earn their money in USD and pay their subscription by GTC are going to get hit by this. It would now be cheaper for US subscribers to pay by CC or other means rather than GTC. Europeans can still get a bargain by buying the 60-day GTC.
I'll concede that the cost from 90-day to 60-day GTC has increased by 35.1%. But i will stand by my maths that the 60-day GTC has increased the base 1 month USD subscription by 17% in line with devaluation of the dollar.
Mystri |
Hasak Rain
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 21:04:00 -
[510]
Edited by: Hasak Rain on 23/05/2008 21:03:57 This thread is turning into a Threadnaught.
In one corner, you have the whiners. In the other, the usual morons telling the whiners to stop whining. Epic imo.
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Alex Verrel
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:06:00 -
[511]
Originally by: Eevul Rabbite "To simplify the ETC reseller program and attune our product offerings with industry standards...". Obvious lie is obvious.
I must agree, this part is the worst.
CCP is amazing. Each time I start thinking that they can't get any more lame in their interaction with their customers, they manage to come up with another trick.
This GTC change, and specifically this 'reasoning' wins the title of 'Absolute Lameness' so far.
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Lemony Snicket
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 21:10:00 -
[512]
Edited by: Lemony Snicket on 23/05/2008 21:10:59
Originally by: Mystri
Originally by: Lemony Snicket
Originally by: Mystri
Quote my original post in context if you are going to comment. Paying in USD is still going to be a bargain compared to paying in Euros.
LOL.. that is not a bargain. The USD is WORTH less than the Euro. But hey, we won't take face value into consideration (or in your case math) we'll just compare numbers... I've got a better offer for you than the Raven, I'll give you 100.00 USD in exchange for 100.00 Euro's.. deal?
That's right, the USD is worth less than the Euro. So when i hand over 100USD it costs me 63EUR. Or when i hand over 100EUR i get 157USD.
So if i buy a $34.99 GTC, it costs me Ç22.18. That's cheaper than buying 2 x Ç14.95 subscriptions.
Over to you.
I still don't see how you figure "paying in USD is still going to be a bargain".. last I checked a 90d GTC was $38.85 vs the 60d for $34.99
Anyway... BOOOOOOOOO! to CCP
.
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Ion Knight
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:13:00 -
[513]
Simple put CPP are trying to scam more money out of us which i wont do i just wont pay for one of my accounts anymore.
Also why didnt they just give each option 30 60 and 90 god i hate some of cpp's decision
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:31:00 -
[514]
Originally by: Ion Knight Also why didnt they just give each option 30 60 and 90 god i hate some of cpp's decision
It is hard to clame to be trying to get in line with industry standards if you just increase the prices. This way they increase the prices and at the same time insult their customers :) It's a win win situation. It's fun when economy people run the show. Seems to get very short sighted for some reason.
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:49:00 -
[515]
Originally by: Eevul Rabbite The current CC subscription pricing and upcoming GTC changes throw the responsibility for weak dollar on European customers and additionally hurt people who rely on GTCs, which is a bit absurd tbh.
Indeed it is absurd and unfair....
However,when approximately 40% of the playerbase is U.S. based subscribers,this leaves CCP with a dilemma.
1.Does CCP take measures to curb the exploitation of the weak dollar by European based subscribers?
or
2.Does CCP charge all subscribers using the Euro which would alienate the U.S. based subscriber base?
As CCP is now a partner with a U.S. based company(White Wolf) and given the constant climate of intense competition in the MMORPG market....What choice do you believe was more viable?
I sympathize with those affected by this change,and I am at a complete loss myself why player payment options had to be curtailed.
Nobody,at the end of the day likes to be the one holding the "brown end of the stick"....unfortunatly thats business.
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Myzexy
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Posted - 2008.05.23 21:51:00 -
[516]
Wrangler apart from spouting "attune our product offerings with industry standards" Is it possible for you or your colleagues to give us an explanation why 30 & 90d Gtc were so confusing and needed to be simplified, By raising the price and introducing the new 60d gtc without giving a large portion of subs the ability to pay by Debit Card.
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Red Desire
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.23 22:00:00 -
[517]
From CCP is great, they understand us and try to fix things, even if they didn't manage to do squah about lag... we have seen increasingly CCP sux across the boards.
Something is wrong!
It's not about few dollars more, it's about this crap startegy CCP has been following lately ... it used to be, take care of the players and game and the money will come.
Now it's all about the money and any way you can put your hands on it... even if this means to lie a lot your customers.
It's like they are breaking the good old CCP apart and a "new and improved" little EA raises its little ugly head.
When their former image will be gone, then we will have a few influential leaders get their corp,alliance out of the game... and then they will see the real Exodus.
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.23 22:11:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Alex Verrel CCP is amazing. Each time I start thinking that they can't get any more lame in their interaction with their customers, they manage to come up with another trick.
I was avid pen@paper game player back in the late 80's and early 90's.Although the issues are completly different between P@P and online game problems,one similarity can be drawn between the two.
Customer service and consideration have never been the strong suite of companies of this type/genre etc.
A professional and "sober" company spokesperson and PR expert would IMO be a splendid addition to the CCP payroll.
My 2 ISK....
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.23 22:16:00 -
[519]
Originally by: Val Vympel However,when approximately 40% of the playerbase is U.S. based subscribers,this leaves CCP with a dilemma. 1.Does CCP take measures to curb the exploitation of the weak dollar by European based subscribers? or 2.Does CCP charge all subscribers using the Euro which would alienate the U.S. based subscriber base?
Indeed, these are two obvious ways they could have gone but as has been seen, they went with a third option that worked out well for them without alienating the US subscriber base. GTC prices have increased but normal subscription prices in the US have not. It does alienate some players that rely on GTCs but not as many as either of the two options above would. It couldn't really have been helped.
The only real issues as far as I am concerned are that they've needlessly dropped their 30 and 90 day codes and that it looks like they tried to hide the price increase in the guise of meeting industry standards.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Cire XIII
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.05.23 22:50:00 -
[520]
So we can we really do besides quit or suck it up and pay?
Either Eve cripples and goes under, they make things right and become push-overs, controlled by their players, or things stay the same with a little hiccup in members around June 15th.
Eve is the best MMORPG out there for me, I would hate to see it go down or push me away. Honesty in a company is a powerful thing. CCP will always have doubters, but should strive to keep the faith of its users. The updates are nice, and a price increase may be due. However, they should be open about it, less blunt, and perhaps take another look at "industry standards" to model its payment options off of.
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Eevul Rabbite
Universal Securities
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:15:00 -
[521]
Edited by: Eevul Rabbite on 23/05/2008 23:20:19
Originally by: Val Vympel
Indeed it is absurd and unfair....
However,when approximately 40% of the playerbase is U.S. based subscribers,this leaves CCP with a dilemma.
1.Does CCP take measures to curb the exploitation of the weak dollar by European based subscribers?
or
2.Does CCP charge all subscribers using the Euro which would alienate the U.S. based subscriber base?
As CCP is now a partner with a U.S. based company(White Wolf) and given the constant climate of intense competition in the MMORPG market....What choice do you believe was more viable?
I sympathize with those affected by this change,and I am at a complete loss myself why player payment options had to be curtailed.
The answer is simple. 3. Do what most companies do and take the effects of weak dollar on yourself, without alienating any customer groups. In other words, adjust the prices to industry standards...
I know it's not going to happen though, because it would mean lowering the price of EU subscription and less income, while the current solution, even if they lose some % of customers, will eventually yield the same or more income.
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CCP RyanD
C C P
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Posted - 2008.05.23 23:32:00 -
[522]
Originally by: Val Vympel
A professional and "sober" company spokesperson and PR expert(preferably at least 35 years of age) would IMO be a splendid addition to the CCP payroll.
Hi, I'll be 40 in October. Wrangler works for me. (And he doesn't write many of the news items that get posted, he just posts them. He didn't write this one, for example. You're taking shots at the wrong guy in this case.)
Normally I would not post on a thread like this but we're going into the weekend and I thought a little clarity might be useful.
Let me start at the beginning. Our billing system overall is way more complex than it may appear. It seems that every day we find a new wrinkle, a new issue we have to overcome, a new requirement placed on us by our payment processors, a new government regulation we have to abide by, a new fraud technique we have to fight. It has become necessary to try to make that process simpler, to help us reduce errors and improve service. Simplifying the ETC system is a part of that overall process.
We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.
Because we are enabling this expanded payment system, we do not feel the need to continue to support the complexity (and the overhead as a result of that complexity) of having many different denominations of Time Codes. If you wish to pay 30 days at a time, you'll be able to do that (and if you cannot do it now you will likely be able to do it soon) even if you do not have a credit card. This simplification has a number of internal benefits, and we decided that those benefits outweighed the unfortunate impact that the change might have to some of our customers who wish to use a payment method we don't yet support.
So to reiterate: If you wish to buy 30 days of play for EVE, you can do it with us directly for the listed price of $14.95/E14.95, and you don't need to buy a Time Code to do that. The same applies for people who want a 90 day period of play as well. We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
The creation of a new, 60 day Time Code, and the pricing of that Time Code is not related to the transition away from 30 and 90 day codes, but was done to fulfill a 2nd strategic goal which was influenced by a number of factors.
We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.
Our pricing for our 60 day Time Code is higher than Blizzards (today) and that reflects a number of assumptions about who buys the time codes, who will be acting as our reselling partners for those time codes, the impact of various taxation regimes, and the foreign exchange rates between currencies. Although our pricing does not mirror the marketshare leader at this time, it does reflect the internal assumptions we are basing our business plan on, and our price is something we are comfortable with at this time.
Thanks for listening.
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|
Saipil
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 23:39:00 -
[523]
i am personally satisfied that the subscription costs are going to stay same for us usa players and that we will still have option to pay for just one month
EVE time codes |
skuko
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 23:40:00 -
[524]
Originally by: CCP RyanD stuff
all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?
please answer this simple question...
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 23:48:00 -
[525]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 23/05/2008 23:51:10 You covered some points well and missed others RyanD.
We're still left wondering:
> Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
> Why there is an inequality in pricing between different countries.
> Why, if you are going to follow Blizzards example, you have not put in place a similar pricing scheme to theirs of 14.99USD/12.99EURO/8.99GBP.
> Why the original news item and Wranglers post lacked any real information and avoided admitting an increase in price.
> Why you are following Blizzards example at all. I don't give money to CCP to enjoy the Blizzard experience, and many other companies are successfully doing business without being Blizzard.
> Why the latest news item announces 30d time cards on sale in Greece.
EDIT: When I say pricing scheme I do not expect you to match Blizzards prices, merely their example (which is now "industry standard") of setting separate and roughly equivalent prices for the three major currencies used by your subscribers.
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Mega Thong
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 23:58:00 -
[526]
Originally by: CCP RyanD post
ummm. you can still go for the 60d gtc as well as 30/90. Dont see any real reason in your post that says why you are dropping the 3/90d's other than goin along with what Blizzard and other games are doing. But what they are doing can be different than what Eve does. Don't follow the trend, start your own, istn that why we all play eve, tired of following the trend of other games?
Being able to play via gtc is awesome, my financial situation doesnt allow me to always get the rl money to play. Doing away with the 3/90d gtc's will make it much harder to pay isk to play, and it's just way nicer to be able to coustomise how much gametime can get!
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 00:07:00 -
[527]
Originally by: CCP RyanD Hi, I'll be 40 in October. Wrangler works for me. (And he doesn't write many of the news items that get posted, he just posts them. He didn't write this one, for example. You're taking shots at the wrong guy in this case.)
Normally I would not post on a thread like this but we're going into the weekend and I thought a little clarity might be useful.
Let me start at the beginning. Our billing system overall is way more complex than it may appear. It seems that every day we find a new wrinkle, a new issue we have to overcome, a new requirement placed on us by our payment processors, a new government regulation we have to abide by, a new fraud technique we have to fight. It has become necessary to try to make that process simpler, to help us reduce errors and improve service. Simplifying the ETC system is a part of that overall process.
We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.
Because we are enabling this expanded payment system, we do not feel the need to continue to support the complexity (and the overhead as a result of that complexity) of having many different denominations of Time Codes. If you wish to pay 30 days at a time, you'll be able to do that (and if you cannot do it now you will likely be able to do it soon) even if you do not have a credit card. This simplification has a number of internal benefits, and we decided that those benefits outweighed the unfortunate impact that the change might have to some of our customers who wish to use a payment method we don't yet support.
So to reiterate: If you wish to buy 30 days of play for EVE, you can do it with us directly for the listed price of $14.95/E14.95, and you don't need to buy a Time Code to do that. We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
The creation of a new, 60 day Time Code, and the pricing of that Time Code is not related to the transition away from 30 and 90 day codes, but was done to fulfill a 2nd strategic goal which was influenced by a number of factors.
We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.
Our pricing for our 60 day Time Code is higher than Blizzards (today) and that reflects a number of assumptions about who buys the time codes, who will be acting as our reselling partners for those time codes, the impact of various taxation regimes, and the foreign exchange rates between currencies. Although our pricing does not mirror the marketshare leader at this time, it does reflect the internal assumptions we are basing our business plan on, and our price is something we are comfortable with at this time.
Thanks for listening.
Sir....I applaud you.
Thank you for taking your time and posting such an exemplary explanation and preserving and enhancing my faith(and undoubtably the faith of many others)in CCP.
If your expertise was in the field of agriculture I would further an application to you immediatly.
Cheers
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RemDakar
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 00:10:00 -
[528]
About time someone clarified this. Only took 19 pages and a lot of angry spaceship nerds. Perhaps these expanded direct payment options will include paypal. That'd be a fine replacement for GTC's for me.
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Jernau Riggs
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 00:10:00 -
[529]
Seems the same as always to me, us people living in the UK continue to pay the most and that helps companies like CCP keep the price down in countries like America where there is greater competion.
I also remember seeing a video from last years eve show when a question was asked of CCP management about how much we pay in comparsion to the US and he was told just buy a game time code!!
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Helplessandlost
Convergent Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 00:17:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 22/05/2008 19:16:45
Originally by: Jack Gilligan One wonders what the dollar would do vs the euro if the US taxpayer didn't by and large pay for the Continent's defense? That's an enormous drain on our economy. Why should we still do it anyway, it's not like anyone appreciates it. I wish my country would look after itself only for a change.
Edit: facts.
Well that's still 4% we could be spending internally and leave the rest of the world to take care of themselves - if that is even true which I doubt... In Memory of Deacon Hasp
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 00:20:00 -
[531]
Originally by: CCP RyanD We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
You should have put this in the announcement.
Originally by: CCP RyanD Because we are enabling this expanded payment system, we do not feel the need to continue to support the complexity (and the overhead as a result of that complexity) of having many different denominations of Time Codes.
Now that's interesting, could you expand on this? I assumed that the overhead for having 3 types of code was almost the same as having one and the majority of my own objection is based on this. What kind of overhead is involved?
Originally by: CCP RyanD If you wish to pay 30 days at a time, you'll be able to do that (and if you cannot do it now you will likely be able to do it soon) even if you do not have a credit card. This simplification has a number of internal benefits, and we decided that those benefits outweighed the unfortunate impact that the change might have to some of our customers who wish to use a payment method we don't yet support.
Fair enough. That's one of the first honest reasons I've read on the issue from CCP about the change and THAT should have been in the announcement, not the two-line marketing crap that was posted. As I said a few times in the thread, if a change was needed this was probably one of the best that could have been made in terms of netting some more profit without killing so many subscription numbers. Can you comment on those players that relied on 30d gtcs and the expected fallout on lost accounts due to the increased GTC price? I'm wondering if you might have underestimated the number of players that rely on buying 30d gtcs with isk and those who buy them with isk in general.
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Our pricing for our 60 day Time Code is higher than Blizzards (today) and that reflects a number of assumptions about who buys the time codes, who will be acting as our reselling partners for those time codes, the impact of various taxation regimes, and the foreign exchange rates between currencies. Although our pricing does not mirror the marketshare leader at this time, it does reflect the internal assumptions we are basing our business plan on, and our price is something we are comfortable with at this time.
Also fair enough. Was the idea of having separate EU and US codes was examined and rejected for various reasons?
Originally by: CCP RyanD Thanks for listening.
Thank you for eventually responding and addressing the major issues. If my opinion is worth anything, I think a lot of the info that was in your post should have been in the initial announcement. The less info that you give people, the more assumptions they make to fill in the blanks and the bigger the hysteria gets.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Gojyu
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:28:00 -
[532]
I love this week. New in eve: Battlegrounds Honour System Copying wow's gtc system
Way to buck the trend ccp
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Deltath Armenak
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:28:00 -
[533]
Originally by: Apocryphai Edited by: Apocryphai on 22/05/2008 16:36:53 Oh BTW, there's going to be a rush on 90d GTC's on shattered crystal etc...
Haha no kidding, as a matter of fact when I found out about this I went and bought one. I suppose this is also the final nail in the coffin for my alt account, I was never really happy with it anyway.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:30:00 -
[534]
Originally by: CCP RyanD We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
You have provided no information about these potentially postitive changes. Do you think that it might have been better PR to present those at the same time in order to sweeten the pill?
Originally by: CCP RyanD We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions.
What's to prevent you from absorbing the reseller discount by selling GTC's for a higher price than direct subscriptions?
Originally by: CCP RyanD Because we are enabling this expanded payment system, we do not feel the need to continue to support the complexity (and the overhead as a result of that complexity) of having many different denominations of Time Codes.
But surely you acknowledge that having varying denominations of GTC's provides greater choice and flexibility for your customers?
Have you considered the impact of this change on those who operate (multiple) accounts which they pay for with ISK to GTC trades?
It is my opionion that you are likely to lose a substantial number of those accounts due to the reduced flexibility and the increased ISK costs incurred by being forced to pay for a minimum of 60 days. Fewer GTC for ISK sellers may also be able to afford the cost of a 60 day card for resale.
Originally by: CCP RyanD If you wish to pay 30 days at a time, you'll be able to do that (and if you cannot do it now you will likely be able to do it soon) even if you do not have a credit card.
Again you fail to outline how you have considered the impact of this change on those who pay for their game time in ISK.
Is it the case that you have an agenda to reduce the number of accounts being payed for in this manner? If so, why? It provides a sizeable additional revenue for CCP in its own right does it not?
Originally by: CCP RyanD This simplification has a number of internal benefits, and we decided that those benefits outweighed the unfortunate impact that the change might have to some of our customers who wish to use a payment method we don't yet support.
What about the impact of the changes upon customers who use methods you do currently support but are discontinuing support for, namely those who pay month to month for a 30 day GTC with ISK?
Originally by: CCP RyanD So to reiterate: If you wish to buy 30 days of play for EVE, you can do it with us directly for the listed price of $14.95/E14.95, and you don't need to buy a Time Code to do that.
Obviously this doesn't apply to ISK payers, unless you also intend to institute a 30 day method of payment using ISK. Clearly you don't, but it is not at all clear that you have considered this demographic of customers.
Originally by: CCP RyanD We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
I doubt that the number of accounts payed for with ISK is negligible. But you have the figures on GTC trades, how many 30 day GTC trades are there each month?
I have left the rest of your response for brevity. Please address these concerns of myself and others who pay for game time with ISK. Is this the start of a roadmap to remove this option from the game?
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:32:00 -
[535]
Edited by: Druadan on 24/05/2008 00:35:59 WTS, Gallente Carrier/Dread pilot, 22.5million SP.
I'm not going to pay through the nose for two accounts. I'm yet to decide whether or not I want to pay through the nose for one now. GTCs offer me a level of flexibility and fire-and-forget cover that paying with my card doesn't, because it auto-renews my subscription. I don't want that to happen, so I use GTCs. I'm not paying just shy of 90 days for 60 days of play. Frack that noise.
This is scandalous, sickening, and something else beginning with s. Sadistic, that'll do.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kersh Marelor
Federal European Industry Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:33:00 -
[536]
Originally by: CCP RyanD We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
Two things here. Are you trying to tell us that some players are negligible to you? Secondly will the 'enabling of more and more payment options' include removing GTCs all together? I can understand if you need to increase the price for the game, for a long time nothing changed with it and the market has changed. Just do it in a fair way without better deals for those of your community who happen to live in certain places of the planet. Also if you need to up the prices just say so and be decent wnought to admit it.
Originally by: CCP RyanD We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.
Will those standards include changing Gallente into elves? We are NOT playing WoW, we are playing EVE. EVE is made by CCP, not Blizzard in case you haven't noticed. You want to set your own standards - that's what makes EVE special and so much better than other MMOs. Stick to it. Increse the prices, fine by me but leave us the options of paying for 60 and 90 days. I see your point about 30 days GTCs, but why 90 (apart from scamming us for money)? o.O
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Kwa Kaine
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:39:00 -
[537]
Quote: That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
That's a fallacy and you know it.
You don't charge for expansions because if you did the game would die for the simple fact everyone would have to have the expansion to play the game due to the way it works. It's not like other mmo's where the expansions are just another instance and you can keep playing even if you don't upgrade to the shiny new expansion.
EVE Online Customer Support <- It would be nice if this actually existed.
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Delilah Blackheart
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Posted - 2008.05.24 00:50:00 -
[538]
Does this mean that 30-day codes are no longer valid after June 15th, or just that they are no longer for sale once the 60-days are available?
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Shiasafri
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:06:00 -
[539]
Edited by: Shiasafri on 24/05/2008 01:05:54
Originally by: Delilah Blackheart Does this mean that 30-day codes are no longer valid after June 15th, or just that they are no longer for sale once the 60-days are available?
That, Also from CCP RyanD's comments more payment option are on the way.
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skuko
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:11:00 -
[540]
Edited by: skuko on 24/05/2008 01:13:50
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD stuff
all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?
please answer this simple question...
Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
fair enough
EDIT: thanks for replying...i didn't want my first post to sound aggravating, i just don't like the idea of blizzard setting "standards". CCP has always gone its own way with EVE and as far as i can tell, stayed true to its beliefs, that is why i'm (politely said) confused with this statement...
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Delilah Blackheart
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:15:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Shiasafri Edited by: Shiasafri on 24/05/2008 01:05:54
Originally by: Delilah Blackheart Does this mean that 30-day codes are no longer valid after June 15th, or just that they are no longer for sale once the 60-days are available?
That, Also...
Um, perhaps I should have worded my question a bit better, but which that are you referring to?
Just attempting to clarify whether all current 30-day codes will become worthless a mere 24 days from now.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:19:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 24/05/2008 01:19:10
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
> Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
> Why there is an inequality in pricing between different countries.
> Why, if you are going to follow Blizzards example, you have not put in place a similar pricing scheme to theirs of 14.99USD/12.99EURO/8.99GBP.
> Why the original news item and Wranglers post lacked any real information and avoided admitting an increase in price.
> Why you are following Blizzards example at all. I don't give money to CCP to enjoy the Blizzard experience, and many other companies are successfully doing business without being Blizzard.
> Why the latest news item announces 30d time cards on sale in Greece.
EDIT: When I say pricing scheme I do not expect you to match Blizzards prices, merely their example (which is now "industry standard") of setting separate and roughly equivalent prices for the three major currencies used by your subscribers.
total agreement
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:17:00 -
[543]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Hi, I'll be 40 in October. Wrangler works for me. (And he doesn't write many of the news items that get posted, he just posts them. He didn't write this one, for example. You're taking shots at the wrong guy in this case.)
Ive speculated in the past in many threads over the identity of the huge holographic grinning floating head I observed in the celing staring down at the CCP minions working away.
I was peeking out of air duct, just a foot away from its left ear.
It didnt seem to notice as I reached out and waved my hand through it to confirm it was indeed holographic in nature.
Reading this Ryan dudes post, and his humiliating admitance that he is the wranglers puppet master, I think I have neared the truth.
All my futre moans at CCP Wrangler, will refer to him as Ryan.
That is all
SKUNK
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:40:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Gojyu I love this week. New in eve: Battlegrounds Honour System Copying wow's gtc system
Way to buck the trend ccp
ok ok now I could argue for YEARS about the battlegrounds,.... but... honor system?
you mean LP? that has been in the game since day 1?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:41:00 -
[545]
Quote: > Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
he answered this
it's because they don't get all the money they lose money by selling timecards. you may pay 15 but CCP only gets 12$.
while with the billing system they get all 15$
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:44:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Kersh Marelor Edited by: Kersh Marelor on 24/05/2008 00:36:23
Originally by: CCP RyanD We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
Two things here. Are you trying to tell us that some players are negligible to you? Secondly will the 'enabling of more and more payment options' include removing GTCs all together? I can understand if you need to increase the price for the game, for a long time nothing changed with it and the market has changed. Just do it in a fair way without better deals for those of your community who happen to live in certain places of the planet. Also if you need to up the prices just say so and be decent enough to admit it.
Originally by: CCP RyanD We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.
Will those standards include changing Gallente into elves? We are NOT playing WoW, we are playing EVE. EVE is made by CCP, not Blizzard in case you haven't noticed. You want to set your own standards - that's what makes EVE special and so much better than other MMOs. Stick to it. Increse the prices, fine by me but leave us the options of paying for 60 and 90 days. I see your point about 30 days GTCs, but why 90 (apart from scamming us for money)? o.O
just going to make one simple point, how are they scamming us to get more money if you can pay 12$ a month by buying a year at a time still?
Also they won't get 35$ per card most likely they will now get 15$ a month form players using time cards, that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
also why are people thnking this will lead to elfs? blizzad makes other games too, it has nothing to do with the game they are billing.
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Mahke
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:58:00 -
[547]
Quote: that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
Why doesn't CCP just sell timecards DIRECTLY to players then. That way, theres no middleman. Either they directly charge us 35 and make 5 more bucks per 60 day timecard themselves, or charge us less and benefit from more demand as less gtc-users cancel their accounts (I don't know anyone who plans on cancelling their main because of this, but I DO know several people dropping alt accounts). |
Hasak Rain
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:17:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Kwa Kaine
Quote: That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
That's a fallacy and you know it.
You don't charge for expansions because if you did the game would die for the simple fact everyone would have to have the expansion to play the game due to the way it works. It's not like other mmo's where the expansions are just another instance and you can keep playing even if you don't upgrade to the shiny new expansion.
I agree and quite frankly, I wish they (and some players)would stop using the "free expansion" excuse every time something gets screwed up around here. The last MMO I played was DAOC and it had ZERO downtime where as EvE requires an hour a day. Not to mention that the expansions in EvE can be a little bit thin compared to other MMO's which you pay for. When i say "thin" I don't mean they aren't quality or good but they usually include chunks of content which exclude a segment of the player base. The upcoming expansion is a good example as alliances will not be allowed to participate in FW. People play the game in all different ways and the things in the expansions are many times things people will never use because either they can't or would hav e to change their play styles.
I personally did not get a whole lot out of Trinity since my graphics card can not run the new graphics content and i know I am not alone of this. Not to mention i still can't use "Heat" to this day since I haven't trained up the 2 weeks Energy Management 5 skill.
The guy I quoted is correct. if you started charging for the expansions, the game would probably go under. EvE Expansions which include new ships which all have different purposes does not = different classes/races in other games. EvE is designed differently than most other MMOs so the expansions aren't simply just "more of the same."
Another thing: I am not sure why people in this thread are asking the Devs if Elves are coming to EvE and other stupid WoW comparison type questions. It has nothing to do with this issue at all. You clowns think that you are so hardcore but you really need to step back and realize that CCP is a company like Blizzard and are in the same industry.
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Amar'u Deltmartuk
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:19:00 -
[549]
Originally by: skuko Edited by: skuko on 24/05/2008 01:13:50
EDIT: thanks for replying...i didn't want my first post to sound aggravating, i just don't like the idea of blizzard setting "standards". CCP has always gone its own way with EVE and as far as i can tell, stayed true to its beliefs, that is why i'm (politely said) confused with this statement...
Not exactly sure why CCP has to "buck the trend" (some other posts were whining about this too). They're not #1, so they have to look out for #1. I just recently read an article about Walmart vs. other retailers. Walmart, being the largest cheap bastards they are, effectively sets the industry trend in department store retail. When they say "jump" the other retailers do it, because it's called staying alive against the competition. In the MMO world, Blizzard (WoW) is Walmart, CCP (Eve) is Sears. Blizzard has 20 times more players than CCP (rough count, 8-10 mil vs 300-500k). If what CCP is doing doesn't make business sense, I don't know what does. Sure it feels painful, but that's life.
Now, the question regarding the in-game market isk-for-GTC trade which concerns me is will this upset the game dyanmics by essentially creating our own version of a liquidity crunch in the game markets? Since GTCs were responsible for moving liquidity around the game economy on the scale of 150-400mil isk per trade, my gut feeling tells me that having this market dropping out of the economy will be detrimental not only for slowing down the economy directly but also as the majority of people pointing out in this forum the massive decrease in alternate character creation and usage, which will also have negative ramifications to the in-game economy (in terms of player productivity, since, for example, a given physical player can no longer conduct multiparty interactions with their alts during the same time be it mining/fighting, intragalatic trading/courier, mining/industrial, etc). |
Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:27:00 -
[550]
ITT: Nerd rage against cheap ingame isk.
www.siigarikitawa.com |
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Mega Thong
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.24 05:41:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Mahke
Quote: that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
Why doesn't CCP just sell timecards DIRECTLY to players then. That way, theres no middleman. Either they directly charge us 35 and make 5 more bucks per 60 day timecard themselves, or charge us less and benefit from more demand as less gtc-users cancel their accounts (I don't know anyone who plans on cancelling their main because of this, but I DO know several people dropping alt accounts).
i never did understand why there was ever a need to go to a totally different website to get gametime for this one when CCP can just sell the codes to us.
or is this another "Market Trend set by Blizzard" that CCP are following
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:05:00 -
[552]
What? CCP is running a business and thinking about profit? I'd nevar.
Black Hand.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:13:00 -
[553]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Quote: > Why the price was increased when your goal is only to simplify the system.
he answered this
it's because they don't get all the money they lose money by selling timecards. you may pay 15 but CCP only gets 12$.
while with the billing system they get all 15$
US billing $15 = $15 European Billing Ç15 = $23.7
I can understand the need to increase GTC prices to cover the re-sellers profit margin, however we are talking about a virtual product here. Would it not be possible to cut out the middle-man and allow us to purchase ETC directly from CCP at $15?
Would it also not be possible to allow subscribers opting to use CCP's preferred payment method to pay in dollars and thus pay the same fee as their American counterparts?
The ideal, though less simple, solution would be to allow us the option to buy GTC or subscribe for $15/Ç9.50/ú7.60 (blame XE.com if the numbers are off) and adjust the prices individually if exchange rates make doing so prudent. This allows us to avoid any fees involved in currency conversion, makes it easy for people to see exactly how much they are paying, and CCP get their $15 from every account.
In any case many of us probably won't take kindly to effectively being second class customers and I doubt the couple of bucks saved by changing the GTC system will make up for the accounts lost when it comes to CCP's bottom line.
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DaReaper
Net 7 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.05.24 06:26:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Mega Thong
Originally by: Mahke
Quote: that extra 5 being you paying off the time card reseller.
Why doesn't CCP just sell timecards DIRECTLY to players then. That way, theres no middleman. Either they directly charge us 35 and make 5 more bucks per 60 day timecard themselves, or charge us less and benefit from more demand as less gtc-users cancel their accounts (I don't know anyone who plans on cancelling their main because of this, but I DO know several people dropping alt accounts).
i never did understand why there was ever a need to go to a totally different website to get gametime for this one when CCP can just sell the codes to us.
or is this another "Market Trend set by Blizzard" that CCP are following
This is easy. You can;t buy a time card for cash off a website. If you go to say Big video game box store A and buy a GTC you can walk in and pay with cash.
If you have a CC you shoudl be buying a subscription that way, not buying a time code with your cc then using it to play, that is just stupid. That is why ccp doesn;t really sell time codes through them, if your already at the eve site, ready to use your credit card to buy a time code... it would be easyer to just pay for your account instead.
ofc i understand people but timecards with credit so they can sell the codes ingame. But still, time codes at retailers so you can use cash to buy them
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Cunny Funt
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:09:00 -
[555]
CCP should ***** down on the macro-players devalueing ISK and buying GTC's with macro money...
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:27:00 -
[556]
Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 07:34:18 If this change goes into effect, I have friends that without any doubt 100% will close all their accounts because it will limit how they play the game too much. And one has 5 accounts. This is beyond the most hurtful decision I've ever seen CCP make, please appeal to the community and resend this decision!
And anyone who hasn't yet, voice your support in this thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
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Johnny Gurkha
Maleficus Cruentus Interfeci
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:34:00 -
[557]
Originally by: xena zena If this change goes into affect, I have friends that without any doubt 100% will close all their accounts because it will limit how they play the game too much. And one has 5 accounts. This is beyond the most hurtful decision I've ever seen CCP make, please appeal to the community and resend this decision!
And anyone who hasn't yet, voice your support in this thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
One 20 page thread is too much for my sore hangover head, 2 20 page threads and I think I'd have a "Scanners" moment....
MCI Recruitment |
xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:39:00 -
[558]
The linked thread is just the voting thread to force the CSM members to bring this to the table at their meeting where CCP would have to acknowledge it. It's a metric for CCP to see the actual number of accounts that read these forms and care enough to post their opposition to the change. Posting a simple "/signed" and checking the "I support this thread" checkbox is all you need to do in that thread, not much reading since 99% of the posts are exactly that.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866
Supporting that thread with a support post is IMPORTANT.
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Giyther
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:41:00 -
[559]
I have to agree with everyone that this a terrible idea. I can almost understand a small price increase but to get rid of the 30 day time code and the 90 day time code is terrible.
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Seetesh
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:45:00 -
[560]
They always seem to dodge around it they dont understand we want the 30days and 90days back and most are willing to pay the little extra to cover the costs just for the felxability it offers us.
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:50:00 -
[561]
Not a lot of people care about the price increase, if ccp justifies that it has to be done because they loose to much money on it or whatever, its not the price, its the removal of options. Not everyone wants to *HAVE* to extend their account 60 days, theres plenty of GOOD reasons why you only want to play 30 days at a time. But with the higher costs it does hurt those who can only play via GTC's and not credit card.
If the reason is that too many EURO's are using GTC's bought with USD, instead of paying the monthly credit card fee in EUROS which is a fair bit more pricey, and ccp is just trying to recover that perceived loss of income... then it's probably their own fault for setting the fee the same in USD as EURO when they know darn well that the two currencies are not equal in value. Then if thats the reason for these changes and price increases then I think its utter BS. And CCP should be called out on that. If its legitimate increased overhead with the creation and sale and commission to the sellers, then fine. If its trying to get some extra buck out of those trying to circumvent the USD:EURO difference, then shame on them.
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Brother Welcome
Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.24 07:56:00 -
[562]
It might be to do with administration or other fixed overheads such as transaction fees, which make it more desirable to sell a minimum value unit (i.e. 60 rather than 30), but that doesn't explain removing 90-day codes.
Anyone who thinks it's to do with forex is just mistaken. That might cause a price adjustment, but wouldn't cause removal of options.
My guess is with those who wonder whether the 30-day codes weren't being 'abused' by second account holders to level toons, perhaps with a view to selling them on the Character Bazaar. I could care less about any theoretical advantage to the playes, but over time it would have a devaluing effect on time-codes.
I suspect what happened is 30-day codes started to seem unattractive, and having 60-day and 90-day codes seems not much better than simplifying to 60, which would save administration hassles.
-BW
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:00:00 -
[563]
Any high level rich player you're referring too would buy 90-day gtc's more economical, because any toon they'd want to level up to sell would take a VERY long time to skill. Plus I doubt theres a huge amount of people that skill characters to sell them for isk, I kinda think generally you get LESS isk out of a character then what the GTC's would of cost you to skill it.. *shrug*, even if not other investments over that time with those isks would of yielded much more isk too..
I'm leaning toward punish and recover more money from people buying GTC's for USD instead of paying the EURO fee... *shrug*
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:00:00 -
[564]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 24/05/2008 08:01:12
Originally by: CCP RyanD We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
It is either obvious lie or poor try to calm down subscribers. Like that promise to "deal with lags", which made years ago. (And lags is still with us...)
Even if your words are truth, that must be implemented before any other changes, if you, at least, do not want to ever see topics like this.
Quote: We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.
If it is another processing crap like PayByCash, I'll just forget my 2 accounts for a while.
Let me explain some basics. Monts ago it was a choice to pay more or less frequently for me, depends on my workload and private lifetime. With the introduction of solo pwnmobiles (read: heavy interdictors), i'm strictly stuck in highsec, without ability to step into lowsec without beeing shredded to dust, because just every pirate now flying Onyx or Broadsword. That's ok, I can live with it, even if this life isn't good. Just less enjoyable. First. Now I'm forced to pay more and for longer periods, where I know i will not be using even half of the time for playing. (i mean, half of the 2-4h everyday playtime, normal for most of adult playerbase). Second. I have no option to pay for game, other than GTC - I do not see a credit card as affordable option for my budget - it's plainly useless and extremely expensive for me, most of my income are "virtual" electronic currency, exceptionally flexibe for me. While PayByCash receiving payments in my preferred currency, they adding crazy tax over the price, basically making it costs the same as future ETC (like $18.5/month), requesting HUGE amount of my private information that I do not want to be disclosed to anyone, and typically working with the needed currency only by great promise. (I've had long discussion with their support girl that does not know anything about internet and payment processing at all ) So, back to GTC/ETC. I don't mind to pay more, but not THAT more. $35 for the month (or less) of playing... That's third. You're counting? 3 cases to cancel account. Your post was fourth one. Right now I'm seriously thinking about stopping to pay for the service, that does not progressing in ages. Yes, that's EVE. You're providing service, that offering major changing... in look, but never changed in feel. It feels like one solid lag. Because it is one solid lag. Fifth one.
P.S. This post were cost me $15 that I will not be able to spend for food in next week, basically put me on "bread and water" diet. As I said, I can live with it. Even if life sometimes isn't enjoyable. But when "sometimes" starts trying to tends to be "every time", I'll take serious steps to make right considerations. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Brother Welcome
Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:01:00 -
[565]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 24/05/2008 08:03:32
Originally by: xena zena Any high level rich player you're referring too would buy 90-day gtc's more economical, because any toon they'd want to level up to sell would take a VERY long time to skill. Plus I doubt theres a huge amount of people that skill characters to sell them for isk, I kinda think generally you get LESS isk out of a character then what the GTC's would of cost you to skill it.. *shrug*, even if not other investments over that time with those isks would of yielded much more isk too..
I'm leaning toward punish and recover more money from people buying GTC's for USD instead of paying the EURO fee... *shrug*
Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.
Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.
BW
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:18:00 -
[566]
Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 08:21:57
Originally by: Brother Welcome Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.
Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.
BW
Ok after reading that I get the impression:
1. They're tired of people circumventing the E14.95 (or $23.60 at current exchange rate), heck thats $8.65 lost per 30 days. 2. The bulk sell price of less then $14.95 to the resellers means they loose even more per 30 days!
So the solution is, make it painful by having to pay for 60 days upfront, and jack the price up! Hoping this drives more people to just direct-pay the additional 157.8% on their credit cards.
By trying to justify that they're doing it because Blizzard only sells 60 day GTC's is kinda silly. Since what else do they do thats industry-standard set by blizzard? Not pricing, obviously, not anything else I've ever noticed, so why this now?
It's all about the money. IF they can force the euros to direct pay in EUROS, heck thats 57% more income right there, win win, right?
Lets ignore all the little folk that aren't doing it to circumvent the exchange rate, or that can only maintain their alts and number of accounts through buying via isk, lets not worry about hurting them. The loss of those accounts won't effect the bottom line as much? RIGHT?
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:45:00 -
[567]
I'm TIRED of CCP and his game EVE
Are they solving lag probz ? -> NO !
Are they solving macroers ruining economy ? -> NO !
Are they solving nanofags ? -> NO !
What are they doing?
Well,
They are adding more fun for "the wow player" ... with ambulation.
They are adding things we don't need, like factionnal warfare
They are increasing their prices up to 33% more
They are lyars, avoiding to answer the good questions and hiding the truth behind empty words.
I begin to be tired of this game BECAUSE of this company
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:47:00 -
[568]
Edited by: Locii on 24/05/2008 08:48:29 i have said earlier in this taht my gf and me maintain 6 accounts between us. 3 full time accounts and 3 indusrty guys we activate to mine and haul as we need them.
afetr speaking to her about this 30% price and the scraping of the 30day time codes we use for these accounts, we will me paying teh one off fee to merge them with our main. so ccp we were paying you ú100 x 3 per year for these accounts, your now gonnna be getting 1 x 60 euro payment.. nice work for saving me cash in the long run ccp...
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:49:00 -
[569]
I don't understand why Europeans have to pay 57% more then Americans? I suspect quite ALOT of them have been just using GTC's to circumvent this, thus this change. I still don't understand the direct $14.95/E14.95. it doesn't seem even REMOTELY fair considering the great difference in currency exchange rates. If the majority of the players don't want to pay 57% more with direct-pay jsut because of the exchange rate, then why not appease them, take a little less profit, and not risk ****ing off potentially a vast amount of your customers?
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Mistress Ingrid
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Posted - 2008.05.24 08:49:00 -
[570]
Iceland's economy in trouble? Could this be why they are raising prices?
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4801.html
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Julius Kashmir
Mutinous Renaissance Fighters Vaccaei Imperial
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:15:00 -
[571]
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Eevul Rabbite The answer is simple. 3. Do what most companies do and take the effects of weak dollar on yourself, without alienating any customer groups. In other words, adjust the prices to industry standards...
I know it's not going to happen though, because it would mean lowering the price of EU subscription and less income, while the current solution, even if they lose some % of customers, will eventually yield the same or more income.
As a business owner myself for the past 21 years and as a consumer I see both sides of this issue.
Over the course of the past 21 years I have had to adjust my business strategy due to recession and market trends on several occasions. As a measure of absolute last resort and with great loathing,there were simply times when I could not avoid passing the costs off to the consumer.
As a business owner myself I believe that CCP should be more forthcoming and honest about this matter.(without compromising themselves to their competition)
However...
I also believe that the playerbase should be far less cynical and self centered.
At the end of the month like all of us..the employees of CCP have mortgages to pay,food to buy and children to clothe...for CCP it is an issue of economic viability...for the playerbase it is an issue of perhaps giving up an alt or two.
The two situations are not morally equivalent.
Like many situations in life...
"Somedays you get the bear,somedays the bear gets you."
Cheers
Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."
I.E. if you DONT have a customer you don't have a business and the way ccp continues to annoy and **** of it's player base with moves like this and it's mimic of WoW instanced base pvp, it's no wonder EVE hasn't grown to eve a fraction of the fame and height WoW has but EVE has originality and until recent moments has been up there w/ blizzard setting standards and now are regressing and following blizzards footsteps.
It's only a matter of time until players start quitting CCP.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:17:00 -
[572]
Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD stuff
all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?
please answer this simple question...
Better game, higher price? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Gajowy
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:20:00 -
[573]
Edited by: Gajowy on 24/05/2008 09:20:56
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD stuff
all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?
please answer this simple question...
Better game, higher price?
hell yeah i have better lags in eve, better customer service by ccp. you are right all the way.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:21:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Julius Kashmir
Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."
Hi, you must be new here. Might I suggest a brief look around the forums? I think you'll see some examples of customers being about as wrong as it's possible to be. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Roland Torq
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:38:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 22/05/2008 16:02:05
Originally by: Jack Gilligan I have a certain amount per month I am willing to pay for a MMO. Currently I run 4 accounts. That will be cut, indeed I just set very long skill trains on 2 of them and canceled. CCP will in the end make no more money because of this.
Oh, I think they will earn more. One in every seven accounts affected by this would have to be cancelled for them to be worse off. Don't see that happening.
European players are as happy as fish in a pond about this. It shows that CCP wants this to be a game where everyone pay the same. For Americans, blame your government....
I will say this once and only once. Do not bring up insults against different nations because who does have more money and shows so by being the world superpower. Think again before you speak. Second just at my work alone theres 87% account cancellation so either CCP will realize they need to listen to their playerbase for once or they'll figure that out after everyone cancels accounts. After all theres only what, 300k accounts on Eve? I estimate 1/3 of the active accounts will be canceled. Well, enjoy the rest of your game time sucking CCP off and giving in to their every last demand, even price increases. G'bye.:D (not like CCP's customer service was any good to start with.)
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iloni atoriandra
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:56:00 -
[576]
Hey if everyone quits then that should solve lag :D
Looks like CCP were working on the lag problem after all
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Akarianna
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:56:00 -
[577]
well being as how a 90 day gtc currently cost 38.95 then i think 34.95 for 60 days is a pretty big hike 4 dollars lest and you lose 30 days play so its a pretty drastic hike 34.95 x 6 is 209.70 38.95 x 4 is 155.80 thats 54 dollars a year increase
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Cutter Isaacson
Hollow World Mining Corporation QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.05.24 10:03:00 -
[578]
Edited by: Cutter Isaacson on 24/05/2008 10:03:36 Ok, what the hell is with the advert for on the main page? 30day GTC's now available in Greece? Much props to CCP RyanD for coming in here and trying valiantly to soothe the raging masses but I think its about time for a proper Devblog.
We need some real answers to our questions, of which there seem to be many, and we need these answers very soon. CCP, Im sure every player out there understands you have a business to run and that in order to keep your business profitable and therefore keep it going, certain changes need to be made.
However, the way you have gone about not only making these changes but also the methods used for announcing them shows a quite severe lack of interest in your customers, who you may remember are the ones who got you where you are today. Im not saying you owe us any vast favours, but a little bit of respect would not go amiss.
So, a Devblog I say, with a decent explanation of what you are doing. We as customers have legal rights to transparency when it comes to a service and or product that we pay for. So lets see how transparent you can be.
Posting with my main. These are not the views of my Alliance, I speak only for myself.
Originally by: Verone Sweet baby jesus and his holy mother of pwn.
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MBlaster
TANK.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:08:00 -
[579]
Originally by: CCP RyanD If you wish to pay 30 days at a time, you'll be able to do that (and if you cannot do it now you will likely be able to do it soon) even if you do not have a credit card. This simplification has a number of internal benefits, and we decided that those benefits outweighed the unfortunate impact that the change might have to some of our customers who wish to use a payment method we don't yet support.
Players have been asking for the option to purchase game time without a credit card for years, and the best you can do is 'likely be able to do it soon'. Is there any particular reason it takes over 5 years to integrate wider payment options into your billing system? It is after all in your own best interest to offer as many payment methods as possible to your customers and in my case, buying 30 day GTC is the result of not being able to pay monthly using a credit card.
In addition, wouldn't it be sensible to remove 30 day GTC once you've provided the ability for customers to purchase 30 days of game time using a method other then a credit card? I really don't care about price increases, I just want to pay monthly and would prefer to pay CCP directly.
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:46:00 -
[580]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 24/05/2008 11:49:16
Originally by: CCP RyanD
We are constantly working on improving our basic, direct payment services as well. Recently we have integrated options which allow, or will soon allow, people without credit cards to use those systems.
THIS should have been front page news.
Originally by: CCP RyanD We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.
Thats fair enough.
Originally by: CCP RyanD We think that the market, lead by Blizzard, is moving towards a standard of 60 days for Time Codes and we're moving there at the same time. As Blizzard's policies (due to volume) often become de facto standards, we think that many other games will follow in this path as well.
Blizzard still holds the biggest share in MMO industry but by no means they are industry leaders. Point me to a single original Blizzard policie that has became standart, i'll save you the troube to even think about it; NONE. Everything Blizzard has done was already available long before WoW's release. Including game time cards. Just because they have major share doesnt mean they create standards for whole industry.
EVE is alot different than WoW, they have different audiences with different needs.
Originally by: CCP RyanD Our pricing for our 60 day Time Code is higher than Blizzards (today) and that reflects a number of assumptions about who buys the time codes, who will be acting as our reselling partners for those time codes, the impact of various taxation regimes, and the foreign exchange rates between currencies. Although our pricing does not mirror the marketshare leader at this time, it does reflect the internal assumptions we are basing our business plan on, and our price is something we are comfortable with at this time.
Again, this is not WoW, there are very large amount of people that are using ISK to buy GTC. Removing 30-day and 90-day cards will just make them reconsider their thoughts about their multiple accounts. GTC sellers will decrease, resulting in more expensive ETC to ISK ratio. More expensive ETC means less people will use them and on and on, you get the idea.
Btw, what is so complex about 30-60-90 GTC options?
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SerjR
Die Tochter des Waldes Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:50:00 -
[581]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
a lot of text
ItÆs nice to see really things, why all this was not wrote in that news article? Also i will be really grateful if you can publish list of payment systems that will be available soon, because i use timecodes only because my cards not accepted by CCP billing and in our country we have very limited list of pay services. Most interesting for me is Webmoney. Thank you. WBR.
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Zasmar
Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:56:00 -
[582]
Don't normally post on issues like this, but this price increase is going to seriously affect how I play. Just opened up two new accounts recently, but I won't be able to afford to pay for all those now, especially in two monthly installments.
People have mentioned just subscribing with Visa, yet, alot of people don't have a Visa card. Also paying just every 30days by card costs nearly ú11, thats alot of money each month especially x3.
This is really not good, CCP please reconsider what you are doing here!
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Vanessa Vasquez
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:58:00 -
[583]
Originally by: fux lol bah, i used to love the fact that i could buy a 90 day for my main which i'm always using
and when i start to get low on isk, i'd buy a 30 day timecard for an alt and do some missions on it.. or y'know i could just buy a 30 day card if i wanted to try out another portion of the game for a decent price.. its silly that now i have to Pay More.. for the oppurtunity to lose some of this flexibility..
not so much a whine, as a general thumbs down at CCP, something ive not actually thought in a good 3 years
Bleh -1
this. I don't bother paying a bit more to compensate the low $, but removing options is not a good idea.
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Squasar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:04:00 -
[584]
Which is why when my sub runs out in 5 days that I'm re-upping with a one year sub just in case CC subs o up within the next year :p
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Aenis Veros
Alphaflight
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:05:00 -
[585]
LOL at the people whining.
How many other MMO:s do you know of where you can PLAY FOR FREE? That's right, when you pay for your game time with pretend money, you are actually playing for free. Yes of course SOMEONE buys them, but not you; the whiner. Someone does it who clearly is dedicated enough to this game, or desperate enough to rather have ISK than real cash. Most likely that person wouldn't care about a few dollars here or there. But he is not you.
You have the option to play the game so it pays for itself, still.
How about CCP did what... all other MMO:s do, and NOT have the ability to pay by paying fake money at all.
Ungrateful people. Just quit this game already, the lot of you. GTFO.
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Terminus adacai
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:46:00 -
[586]
This is not a good thing. "Industry Standards"? Puhlease... Is the industry upping it's monthly subscription rates too? Haven't seen that....
What happened to a discount for buying larger blocks of time?
/fail
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:49:00 -
[587]
Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 12:53:37
Originally by: Julius Kashmir Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."
I.E. if you DONT have a customer you don't have a business and the way ccp continues to annoy and **** of it's player base with moves like this and it's mimic of WoW instanced base pvp, it's no wonder EVE hasn't grown to eve a fraction of the fame and height WoW has but EVE has originality and until recent moments has been up there w/ blizzard setting standards and now are regressing and following blizzards footsteps.
It's only a matter of time until players start quitting CCP.
Obviously..It must be true,I am a complete and total ignoramus.
What I am is a 39 year old,semi-retired(at my age that means wealthy)rancher and dairy farmer.
I have run the business my great-grandfather started over 100 years ago..for the past 21 years.
Let me educate you...
Success sir,begins and ends with your EMPLOYEES. My family company(and at 300 or so employees CCP is about half again as large as my company)would NOT have been a success for over 100 years if not for the tireless and dedicated hard work of thousands of people over the years.
My job is to insure the economic viability of my company,to insure that my employees have a job to arrive at in the morning so in turn insuring that YOU the customer have a product to buy.
Your money is worth less than the paper it is printed on if you do not have a product to buy with it.EMPLOYEES insure that you the CUSTOMER have a product to buy that gives your money worth.
Take your money to my competitor you might say...Ok!..what makes you think a different and more favorable(for YOU) set of market or economic circumstances govern his company?
If the product that CCP produces is so poor and not worth your money,why has this thread produced 20 pages of protest?
If the product is so inferior in your estimation why have you not quietly withdrawn and gone elsewhere?
ANSWER: Because you believe your money gives you the RIGHT to dictate the terms by which a company governs itself. And you obfuscate the fact that you really like this product but your hubris will not allow you to admit that or quit.
The CUSTOMER is always right?? True....in their own MIND.
Lesson concluded
Good day
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DrHolliday
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:50:00 -
[588]
Edited by: DrHolliday on 24/05/2008 12:50:21
Originally by: Aenis Veros LOL at the people whining.
How many other MMO:s do you know of where you can PLAY FOR FREE? That's right, when you pay for your game time with pretend money, you are actually playing for free. Yes of course SOMEONE buys them, but not you; the whiner. Someone does it who clearly is dedicated enough to this game, or desperate enough to rather have ISK than real cash. Most likely that person wouldn't care about a few dollars here or there. But he is not you.
You have the option to play the game so it pays for itself, still.
How about CCP did what... all other MMO:s do, and NOT have the ability to pay by paying fake money at all.
Ungrateful people. Just quit this game already, the lot of you. GTFO.
O_O srsly guys, srsbrucelee
Reject GTC Price Hike: Thread | CSM |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:04:00 -
[589]
Oh dear, no follow-up from RyanD?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:23:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Nyphur Oh dear, no follow-up from RyanD?
Maybe not be it still sucks loosing the 30 and 90 day option! |
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Alexandros Balfros
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:46:00 -
[591]
So wait CCP stop doing 30 day cards and then yesterday announce that they are doing a new greece retail set and will be selling 30 day cards over there, somewhere something doesn't add up
http://www.eve-online.com/news/newsOfEve.asp?newsID=559
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.24 15:10:00 -
[592]
The new 30Day timecodes they are selling are at teh full euro price. so its ok if you us guys wanna buy them, just cant have you buying 30day codes in $ cos tahts just not making ccp the cash
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Dessa DesPlains
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.24 15:33:00 -
[593]
I don't play other mmorpgs. I play eve. Don't care about industry standards. If I did. I'd be playing a microsoft game. Oh wait...
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Dessa DesPlains
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.05.24 15:44:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Warrior Crash if its gunna be costing more to play you need to be building a new server because im not up for paying for 1 that lags bad as it is now. It doesnt matter what country you live in now the cost of living is going up as it is, and the wages dont go up so your basicly screewing your selfs as most people will not be able to afford to pay for the game each month.
Lag will be getting better soon. I see 29799 people on line now on a Saturday afternoon. And I've been seeing less than 20000 most nights. I'm sure this GTC issue will help increase subscriptions.
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DrefsabZN
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Posted - 2008.05.24 16:08:00 -
[595]
Personally I think this is a decision with fail written all over it. CCP don't have a competent billing system for UK residents (something any almost everyone and their dog can do now days but CCP fails at) in that they don't have the ability to process the main Debit cards types held in the UK (Maesto, Solo, Switch etc).
GTC's used to offer a viable solution for those who don't wont to have to have a credit card, don't want to use "PayByCash" (I mean come on who has ever heard of them outside of eve), or have to change banks to one that doesn't issue the standard type of Debit cards.
Given that a lot of players in the UK are forced into using GTC's to play because of CCP's inept billing methods restricting the choice's customers get is a poor move indeed. It Doesn't give a better customer experiment it doesn't make things easier for resellers (I mean god forbid that resellers have to handle 2 whole SKU's, what ever will they do).
It would have been better if CCP had not lied to the customer base and told the real reason's behind the change (most likely financial due to the currency markets), adjusted the prices accordingly and hell maybe just maybe fixed there billing system so people can use the same payment methods their using to get the GTC's to pay for eve directly.
CCP showing some transparency in decisions and actually giving a better customer choice/experience/satisfaction? Crazy idea I know but who know's it could be worth a try and lord knows its certainly not been done yet when it comes to the billing side.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2008.05.24 16:20:00 -
[596]
Quote: If the product that CCP produces is so poor and not worth your money,why has this thread produced 20 pages of protest?
This is simple for many of us.
1 We accept to play for 0.45$/day We refuse to play for 0.58$/day So many of us warn CCP that they will; - cancel their account - merge alts in one account
2 We don't like that a company hide their goal and speak to us as if we were jackass. The announce say "we reduce costs". They always avoid to say "for people buying 90d GTC, the overall price is growing around +34%".
3 The extra cash income don't seems to be used for: - reducing lag - solving isk sellers - enhancing game balance
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
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Darth Sithus
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Posted - 2008.05.24 17:56:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Quote: If the product that CCP produces is so poor and not worth your money,why has this thread produced 20 pages of protest?
This is simple for many of us.
1 We accept to play for 0.45$/day We refuse to play for 0.58$/day So many of us warn CCP that they will; - cancel their account - merge alts in one account
2 We don't like that a company hide their goal and speak to us as if we were jackass. The announce say "we reduce costs". They always avoid to say "for people buying 90d GTC, the overall price is growing around +34%".
3 The extra cash income don't seems to be used for: - reducing lag - solving isk sellers - enhancing game balance
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
I want answer from CCP on this.
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StinkFinger
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.24 18:02:00 -
[598]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 24/05/2008 18:03:01 ccp wants to stop people from buying a 30 day gtc, training some skills, then setting a long 30+ day skill right before the 30 day gtc expires, and letting the account go inactive, then reactivating the account after the skill finishes with another 30 day gtc and then doing the same thing over again...the way they see it, they're losing out on quite a bit of income.
Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
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Brother Welcome
Icarus' Wings Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.24 18:03:00 -
[599]
Originally by: xena zena Edited by: xena zena on 24/05/2008 08:21:57
Originally by: Brother Welcome Gosh you really didn't understand my post at all, did you? Toon-levelling is done by every so often buying a 30-day code and setting long skills in training.
Go back to page 19 and read CCP's response. I read it after I posted, but I nearly hit the nail on the head.
BW
Ok after reading that I get the impression:
1. They're tired of people circumventing the E14.95 (or $23.60 at current exchange rate), heck thats $8.65 lost per 30 days. 2. The bulk sell price of less then $14.95 to the resellers means they loose even more per 30 days!
So the solution is, make it painful by having to pay for 60 days upfront, and jack the price up! Hoping this drives more people to just direct-pay the additional 157.8% on their credit cards.
By trying to justify that they're doing it because Blizzard only sells 60 day GTC's is kinda silly. Since what else do they do thats industry-standard set by blizzard? Not pricing, obviously, not anything else I've ever noticed, so why this now?
It's all about the money. IF they can force the euros to direct pay in EUROS, heck thats 57% more income right there, win win, right?
Lets ignore all the little folk that aren't doing it to circumvent the exchange rate, or that can only maintain their alts and number of accounts through buying via isk, lets not worry about hurting them. The loss of those accounts won't effect the bottom line as much? RIGHT?
Yup. It does suck. By chance I recently moved IP location and had my rolling sub terminated and cc refused. In order to play I bought a GTC and discovered how much cheaper it was to play if you aren't in Europe.
Anyway. The amount would suck less if CCP were attending to features we care about.
Ambulation? WTF? How on Earth did CCP figure out that what I realy, really want is to play WoW in space? Is it because of all the threads demanding it? Um... are there any threads demanding it?
White Wolf World of Darkness? Yes, I bet this is where our money goes, instead of buying more servers and fatter cables.
Faction warfare? Eve wins because of non-scripted open PvP. How about fixing low and 0.0 first please?
Do that and I could care less about a few euros one way or the other.
BW
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Khudo
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Posted - 2008.05.24 18:17:00 -
[600]
Quote: This is simple for many of us.
1 We accept to play for 0.45$/day We refuse to play for 0.58$/day So many of us warn CCP that they will; - cancel their account - merge alts in one account
2 We don't like that a company hide their goal and speak to us as if we were jackass. The announce say "we reduce costs". They always avoid to say "for people buying 90d GTC, the overall price is growing around +34%".
3 The extra cash income don't seems to be used for: - reducing lag - solving isk sellers - enhancing game balance
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
Same tough.
Sooo CCP ? What is your position... I think youre about to loose money, and "standings" from the player base...
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.24 19:44:00 -
[601]
Edited by: Sabrina Treadehugger on 24/05/2008 19:45:33
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Quote: If the product that CCP produces is so poor and not worth your money,why has this thread produced 20 pages of protest?
This is simple for many of us.
1 We accept to play for 0.45$/day We refuse to play for 0.58$/day So many of us warn CCP that they will; - cancel their account - merge alts in one account
2 We don't like that a company hide their goal and speak to us as if we were jackass. The announce say "we reduce costs". They always avoid to say "for people buying 90d GTC, the overall price is growing around +34%".
3 The extra cash income don't seems to be used for: - reducing lag - solving isk sellers - enhancing game balance
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
one of the best posts in this thread
i for one am certainly voting with my wallet on this one
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Jernau Riggs
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Posted - 2008.05.24 19:51:00 -
[602]
we could orginise an ingame protest??
How about everyone head to jita at a certain pre agreed time in a t1 frigate and just start attacking each other, that should crash the node nicly and we just do it every day for a week and see if they change their mind...
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Eve Spair
Black Mesa
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Posted - 2008.05.24 20:09:00 -
[603]
raising the price is fine. but please keep the different times avaliable. seems kinda foolish to only offer a 60-day card.
(havent read the entire thread so there might have been an answer to my post already)
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Inarr Beck
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Posted - 2008.05.24 20:13:00 -
[604]
remember that all kinds of stuffs are going up in price a lot (yes this includes electricity), regardless even of the dollar decline.
then remember that CCP needs to pay its bills too.
then you may chose from several options as to whom or what to curse for this.
Not the message you wanted to hear but the best that can be done under current market circumstances I'm afraid.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.24 20:18:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Inarr Beck remember that all kinds of stuffs are going up in price a lot (yes this includes electricity), regardless even of the dollar decline.
then remember that CCP needs to pay its bills too.
then you may chose from several options as to whom or what to curse for this.
Not the message you wanted to hear but the best that can be done under current market circumstances I'm afraid.
look a post from a market expert ,oh wait.....
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.24 21:05:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Val Vympel Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 13:31:46 Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 12:53:37
Originally by: Julius Kashmir Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."
I.E. if you DONT have a customer you don't have a business and the way ccp continues to annoy and **** of it's player base with moves like this and it's mimic of WoW instanced base pvp, it's no wonder EVE hasn't grown to eve a fraction of the fame and height WoW has but EVE has originality and until recent moments has been up there w/ blizzard setting standards and now are regressing and following blizzards footsteps.
It's only a matter of time until players start quitting CCP.
Obviously..It must be true,I am a complete and total ignoramus.
What I am is a 39 year old,semi-retired(at my age that means wealthy)rancher and dairy farmer.
I have run the business my great-grandfather started over 100 years ago..for the past 21 years.
Let me educate you and others.
Success sir,begins and ends with your EMPLOYEES. My family company(and at 300 or so employees CCP is about half again as large as my company)would NOT have been a success for over 100 years if not for the tireless and dedicated hard work of thousands of people over the years.
My job is to insure the economic viability of my company,to insure that my employees have a job to arrive at in the morning so in turn insuring that YOU the customer have a product to buy.
Your money is worth less than the paper it is printed on if you do not have a product to buy with it.Your money is also worthless to me.EMPLOYEES insure that you and others the CUSTOMER(S) have a product to buy that gives your money worth.Now..because of EMPLOYEES your money has worth to me as well.
Take your money to my competitor you might say...Ok!..what makes you think a different and more favorable(for YOU and others) set of market or economic circumstances govern his company?
If the product that CCP produces is so poor and not worth your money,why has this thread produced 20 pages of protest?
If the product is so inferior in your estimation why have you and others not quietly withdrawn and gone elsewhere?
ANSWER: Because you and others believe your money gives you the RIGHT to dictate the terms by which a company governs itself. And you and others obfuscate the fact that you and others really like this product but your collective hubris will not allow you to admit that or quit.
The CUSTOMER is always right?? True....in their own MIND.
Lesson concluded
Good day
lol rant
SKUNK
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 21:25:00 -
[607]
Originally by: StinkFinger Edited by: StinkFinger on 24/05/2008 18:03:01 ccp wants to stop people from buying a 30 day gtc, training some skills, then setting a long 30+ day skill right before the 30 day gtc expires, and letting the account go inactive, then reactivating the account after the skill finishes with another 30 day gtc and then doing the same thing over again...the way they see it, they're losing out on quite a bit of income.
I keep seeing this. They were going to stop skill training continuing on unpaid accounts some time ago, but were convinced to change their minds. I believe that on EVE China it went through.
These changes don't impact this in any major way. The US customers can sub for $15 one month and leave a skill training during the next without paying, European players can do the same albeit at a higher price.
The primary issues are the removal of options, increase of prices, and pricing inequality between the US and Europe.
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Kurogauna
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Posted - 2008.05.24 21:47:00 -
[608]
Quote: This is simple for many of us.
1 We accept to play for 0.45$/day We refuse to play for 0.58$/day So many of us warn CCP that they will; - cancel their account - merge alts in one account
2 We don't like that a company hide their goal and speak to us as if we were jackass. The announce say "we reduce costs". They always avoid to say "for people buying 90d GTC, the overall price is growing around +34%".
3 The extra cash income don't seems to be used for: - reducing lag - solving isk sellers - enhancing game balance
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
+1 nothing to ad the best post
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.24 21:47:00 -
[609]
where did the sticky go on this part of the forum? are ccp hoping we are going to forget now its gone
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Jin'May
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Posted - 2008.05.24 22:11:00 -
[610]
On paper it may look like you'll earn more money that way CCP. Your stats sheets and numbers probably tell you so. But there's something your data can't predict : how this change will affect the behaviour of your costumers. And that's something I can give you insight about: I am paying for 4 accounts right now. I pay 1 with credit card and 3 with ISK. If the 30d GTC are removed I'll stop paying for 2 of those accounts.
Make your math now. Tell me whether 60d are such a good day after all?
So for your own sake, if you don't want to lose paid accounts, please don't do it.
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THEGREAT LOBO
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 22:25:00 -
[611]
Edited by: THEGREAT LOBO on 24/05/2008 22:28:15 You mention being able to buy just 30 days at a time soon with the new payment methods you will be offering. Can you go into more detail on this ? As this would solve any issues i have with this change.
I currently have 4 accounts and sub all of them with 30 day gtc's i buy online. Only with 60 day gtc's i will probably just go down to 3 accounts as i would not like spending that much in a month on a game. And i like the flexibility of 30 days at a time.
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Red Desire
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.24 23:18:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Val Vympel Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 13:31:46 Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 12:53:37
Obviously..It must be true,I am a complete and total ignoramus.
What I am is a 39 year old,semi-retired(at my age that means wealthy)rancher and dairy farmer.
I have run the business my great-grandfather started over 100 years ago..for the past 21 years.
Ignorant stuff
Yes you are a ignoramus ! Let's pass over your pathetic attempt to show your authority in this subject... 39 rich dude who inherited some business and now is milking cows for fun.
The phrase "the customer is always right.", was not first used by customers. It's suppose to mean a seller attitude towards his buyers, in a fiercely competitive market. Depending of the product you are selling this rule applies in different way... of course if you are manufacturing corks or crapsticks, this could not affect you much.
Your craptastik, manufacturing-employees-crap-money-product-customers lesson, it's a mumbo-jumbo which has not real tangency with the subject at hand... maybe it has in the field your work, eh .. excuse me you worked, now you're milking cows and maturating manure.
There are only 2 rules for any big IT company in the world : - reduce costs - increase profit
In a competitive world, where you are selling a similar product in quality and characteristics as others, you need to take care of your customers. This has changed in the monopolistic IT world we are living.
Now let's talk about MMO business, in short they are selling you the same thing over and over again. The MMO's in general are all based on the same principle, satisfaction on achievement, they need to add new achievements or people would quit. In a normal game(single player) you have one primary achievement, to finish the game, after that 90% of the users never play that game again.
Bases on the satisfaction of achievemnt, we all "work" ingame to reach it, that's why it's hard to quit because you worked (skills,ISK,ships even friends in corp) and didn't get (yet) your satisfaction. Because of this feelings MMOs companies have leverage on their customers.
So in short, they can push the limits and not care about their customers and listen to their corporation policy(read some idiots) of reducing cost&increasing profits(Read India,China&Ambulation,Factionwarefare,GTC price increase) with little fear of loosing money(quiting over lag or just other valid reason).T
This can be a double edge sword, people don't like to be treated like ****, CCP is going downhill, as soon as a company rises with the same characteristics as they used to have people might leave en mass.
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.24 23:22:00 -
[613]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD stuff
all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?
please answer this simple question...
Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
To be fair, though, if you DID charge for expansions, you'd have incentive to make sure that expansions actually had something for everyone to get us to buy it.
This expansion has ZERO for me, so if it were there for purchase, you and I know that anyone in an alliance would pass on it.
My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my corporation or alliance. |
Kilhu Emmek
Redshift Industrial
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Posted - 2008.05.24 23:25:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Ambulation? WTF? How on Earth did CCP figure out that what I realy, really want is to play WoW in space? Is it because of all the threads demanding it? Um... are there any threads demanding it?
White Wolf World of Darkness? Yes, I bet this is where our money goes, instead of buying more servers and fatter cables.
I subscribe to the theory (not my own) that ambulation is development for world of darkness. No one playing eve seems to care about ambulation, there was no huge outcry for it, but after CCP merges with White Wolf and announces this werewolf/vampire game (I think there might be one or two other fantasy games on the MMO market, but I'm not sure ... ), all of a sudden we've got this ambulation project. Coincidence?
Only if you're a wereidiot, and lose 100 IQ points by the light of the fail moon.
As many other people have said, FW sounds a bit like a weak lift from WoW, too. Factional battlegrounds where you compete with opposing players for control of areas that don't really grant anything other than faction gains and PvP ranks (complete with insignia! For the Hord--I mean Minmatar!) and increased LP you can redeem for things like epic mounts--I mean ships--with the added "bonus" of denying entry to any player who is currently in an alliance, itself a mechanic CCP has tried to funnel most of their customer base into for the past couple of years, at least. Break their bones!
The decision to raise GTC prices 33-37% (depends on whose math you use) was poorly conceived, poorly planned, and extraordinarily poorly announced. The whole "industry standard" line still has me sitting here thinking "I know I look dumb, but surely not that dumb ..." It's not often I feel personally insulted by a press release, but man, that one was like "hey dummy, check this out!"
I think economic failure in Iceland, the GTC program "wholesale discounts" that resellers are given, the need for additional development funding for a niche game in a clogging MMO market, and a few other factors (increasing hardware/pipe costs as the pound is stronger than the kronor) led to the decision. I think it's gonna backfire pretty catastrophically, if they stay with it.
If I were a GTC reseller, I'd be furious--they're basically cutting their throats with this move. I wouldn't be surprised if they announce the end of the GTC program entirely at some point in the near future (this seems like a veiled attempt to kill it off, really) because it's eating into their profits.
It's stupid to set up a discount arrangement with wholesale suppliers and then try to choke the program off because you're not getting the full retail price of the product sold through the wholesale partner. It may even be illegal. Someone needs to slide the URL for wikipedia's entry on wholesale to the manager responsible for this brilliance.
Well, it's gonna be interesting to fly around Rens and Pator and see one or two people in local, again. Maybe CCP will sell this tired, old game to another company and focus on their new and improved one, World of Warc--I mean Darkness. --
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Squasar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 00:02:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
I'm actually a fan of the FW and the ambulation. Would you rather CCP charge us another 19.99 or up for an updated CD-Key in order for us to play with these expansions? Or would you rather the game stay the same for years upon years and slowly die off?
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.25 00:08:00 -
[616]
They chose their model eons ago, with free expansions. To dangle that now as a "zomg look how nice we are we don't make you pay for them like WoW!" in the same breath useing "We're following wow's example on GTC's" is kinda two faced.
The *BEST* solution is to make the billing system charge the same no matter where you live. Reduce the EURO price raise the DOLLAR price, keep GTC's the same dominations and just raise values to match. That's the best solution.
Trying to hide their true intentions behind "industry standards" and to cite Blizzard and WoW as those standards is a slap in the face.
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Kurogauna
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Posted - 2008.05.25 00:16:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Val Vympel Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 13:31:46 Edited by: Val Vympel on 24/05/2008 12:53:37
Originally by: Julius Kashmir Obviously you missed the lesson of business success, "the customer is always right."
I.E. if you DONT have a customer you don't have a business and the way ccp continues to annoy and **** of it's player base with moves like this and it's mimic of WoW instanced base pvp, it's no wonder EVE hasn't grown to eve a fraction of the fame and height WoW has but EVE has originality and until recent moments has been up there w/ blizzard setting standards and now are regressing and following blizzards footsteps.
It's only a matter of time until players start quitting CCP.
Obviously..It must be true,I am a complete and total ignoramus.
What I am is a 39 year old,semi-retired(at my age that means wealthy)rancher and dairy farmer.
I have run the business my great-grandfather started over 100 years ago..for the past 21 years.
Let me educate you and others.
Success sir,begins and ends with your EMPLOYEES. My family company(and at 300 or so employees CCP is about half again as large as my company)would NOT have been a success for over 100 years if not for the tireless and dedicated hard work of thousands of people over the years.
My job is to insure the economic viability of my company,to insure that my employees have a job to arrive at in the morning so in turn insuring that YOU the customer have a product to buy.
Your money is worth less than the paper it is printed on if you do not have a product to buy with it.Your money is also worthless to me.EMPLOYEES insure that you and others the CUSTOMER(S) have a product to buy that gives your money worth.Now..because of EMPLOYEES your money has worth to me as well.
Take your money to my competitor you might say...Ok!..what makes you think a different and more favorable(for YOU and others) set of market or economic circumstances govern his company?
If the product that CCP produces is so poor and not worth your money,why has this thread produced 20 pages of protest?
If the product is so inferior in your estimation why have you and others not quietly withdrawn and gone elsewhere?
ANSWER: Because you and others believe your money gives you the RIGHT to dictate the terms by which a company governs itself. And you and others obfuscate the fact that you and others really like this product but your collective hubris will not allow you to admit that or quit.
The CUSTOMER is always right?? True....in their own MIND.
Lesson concluded
Good day
I love you
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 00:44:00 -
[618]
Yearly subscription prices:
USA $131.40/year EUR $207.38/year ETC $209.94/year
Europeans are charged 58% extra, those using ETC's will be charged 60% extra.
If you'll excuse me I have to go apply a cold compress to my ring.
----------------------------
Originally by: CCP Subscription I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.25 03:08:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Red Desire There are only 2 rules for any big IT company in the world : - reduce costs - increase profit
In a competitive world, where you are selling a similar product in quality and characteristics as others, you need to take care of your customers.
Hmmm?..let me see...Ah! there it is page 1 of every last Economics 101 textbook since the invention of the printing press. And you thought you were smart.
ALL companies regardless of what industry,operate under these rules,or they don't operate at all and go under.
As for your derisive comments concerning my inheritance. Yes!...I milk cows and...manufacture 100 tons of cheese,ship 1.1 million gallons of milk and bundle and ship 49 box cars of manure...annually(2007).I have done this as the CEO of my company for 21 years.
21 years is allot of time for the success of a company to get by on the laurels of previous generations,especially in the hands of an ignoramus.
Next you will tell me cattle feed is free.(not to mention all the high-tech equipment that goes into modern dairy farming...or I assume you think we still milk by hand)
Care to divulge your field of expertise? Perhaps if you do,it will lend some credibility to your position.
Until then...you have presented nothing(aside from your contempt for me and the dairy industry)that any freshman in college could not point to in a textbook.
Did I mention above that I also employ 144 of the finest citizens the U.S. has to offer,sponsor a local little league baseball team and donate cartoned milk to my local school system and give FREE of charge,tons of manure to local farmers. All that and I still turn a profit.
What do you do for your community?
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Mahke
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 03:12:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Squasar
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
Instead, we have unwanted add-on like: - ambulation - factionnal warfare - some crazy decisions (wtf, changing the skin of EW frigs ?)
I'm actually a fan of the FW and the ambulation. Would you rather CCP charge us another 19.99 or up for an updated CD-Key in order for us to play with these expansions? Or would you rather the game stay the same for years upon years and slowly die off?
Its clear why non-mandatory expansions cant be applied to EVE. However, keep in mind a) how profitable monthly-pay mmo's are b) that aside from ambulation, none of that stuff requires THAT high amount of resources, and frankly, ambulation would be a terrible waste of developer time and money and server power (want to socialize with a 3d avatar? go back to gaia).
and nothing kills a game faster than price hikes in such a competitive market. Although lets all be honest here -- a LOT of alt accounts will be cancelled, but not many players at all cancelling absolutley.
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.25 03:30:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Mahke [snip] a LOT of alt accounts will be cancelled, but not many players at all cancelling absolutley.
I've been playing with 3-5 accounts for years now, to suddenly be put in the quandary of not being able to afford them, thus not have them all active, then trying to get by without them, makes me FAR more likely to just throw it all in and play something else.
Everyone after a year or two or more of playing eve has tinkered with the idea of quitting, taken breaks, sometimes long ones. Suddenly making it more expensive to play the way you've been used too , when all your alts and mains are trained to work together.. (for me mining, rorqual pilots, hauler alt, hulks, without all the alts it's far less efficient!)
If I couldn't afford to play with all my alts, I'd seriously consider just packing it in. Time to finally quit. I'm sure there are tons of people like me that can't really conceive of playing anymore if they can't use all their alts.
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rValdez5987
Asylum Logistics
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Posted - 2008.05.25 05:58:00 -
[622]
Edited by: rValdez5987 on 25/05/2008 06:01:55
Quote:
Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
This ^
Thats why I play EVE and not WoW... well that and WoW sucks.
As far as playing EVE and the whole alts thing... TBH I barely have enough time to play on one account much less all of my alts. For me, Ive found that just simply taking a week or two aside to train up an industry alt or miner to just basic levels saves you the hassle of running another account.
Then again, the reason I play eve is for pvp, and I dont mind grinding missions about 4-6 days a month to fund said pvp... My views and opinions are my own.
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Ataraxa
Trolltech Research Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 06:25:00 -
[623]
So does anybody know yet what will happen on the 15th of June?
Will they deny 30/90d codes henceforth that we bought already (maybe in anticipation of this move) ?
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AlphaViscera
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Posted - 2008.05.25 06:39:00 -
[624]
This is the worst idea ever.
Icelandic business schools must suck |
Tomblinu
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Posted - 2008.05.25 06:43:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Yearly subscription prices:
USA $131.40/year EUR $207.38/year ETC $209.94/year
Europeans are charged 58% extra, those using ETC's will be charged 60% extra.
Seeing the numbers like this makes it look more like the prices for the USA are the exception, that the price in the USA is a rich 37% discount. Maybe everyone else should stop subsidizing the USA, and prices should be more like:
USA $185/year EUR $185/year ETC $185/year
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.05.25 06:59:00 -
[626]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Originally by: skuko
Originally by: CCP RyanD stuff
all right then...if you consider blizzard "de facto standard", why not lower the EU price to 12.99,- ?
please answer this simple question...
Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
an option for a 1 year GTC would be great. obviously with the oppertunity for the player to save some $ in the process... i for one will play eve for years to come... i am willin gto pay it... and think of the FERE money you guys would get for people who play for 6 months and quit (for whatever reasons) ... you still got 6 months of their $ _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
The macdaddy
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.05.25 07:13:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Red Desire There are only 2 rules for any big IT company in the world : - reduce costs - increase profit
In a competitive world, where you are selling a similar product in quality and characteristics as others, you need to take care of your customers.
Hmmm?..let me see...Ah! there it is page 1 of every last Economics 101 textbook since the invention of the printing press. And you thought you were smart.
ALL companies regardless of what industry,operate under these rules,or they don't operate at all and go under.
As for your derisive comments concerning my inheritance. Yes!...I milk cows and...manufacture 100 tons of cheese,ship 1.1 million gallons of milk and bundle and ship 49 box cars of manure...annually(2007).I have done this as the CEO of my company for 21 years.
21 years is allot of time for the success of a company to get by on the laurels of previous generations,especially in the hands of an ignoramus.
Next you will tell me cattle feed is free.(not to mention all the high-tech equipment that goes into modern dairy farming...or I assume you think we still milk by hand)
Care to divulge your field of expertise? Perhaps if you do,it will lend some credibility to your position.
Until then...you have presented nothing(aside from your contempt for me and the dairy industry)that any freshman in college could not point to in a textbook.
Did I mention above that I also employ 144 of the finest citizens the U.S. has to offer,sponsor a local little league baseball team and donate cartoned milk to my local school system and give FREE of charge,tons of manure to local farmers. All that and I still turn a profit.
What do you do for your community?
Dude.... you run a farm it doesnt make you donald trump
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Teliot Rebburcs
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Posted - 2008.05.25 07:50:00 -
[628]
Edited by: Teliot Rebburcs on 25/05/2008 07:51:56
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
What a crock of SH*T. This is one of the most disgusting comments I've heard from CCP. You know what would happen if you charged for an expansion.. you would lose every player who didn't want to spend the extra cash to line your pockets with.
How many players do you actually think would stick around if they kept getting pwned in null and low sec by a tier4 BS, kept getting undercut selling mins because of a "super barge" mining twice the amount of their Hulk, or not being able to access parts of the universe and special agents, simply because they didn't want to spend more money?
You then could start comparing yourself to Blizzard and the "Industry standard" and enlist the millions of WoW players to purchase your buggy ass expansions.
As an afterthought you would then lose those players due to the ridiculous lag while they were "raiding".
/me runs off to vomit
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Wren Alterana
The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic
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Posted - 2008.05.25 07:58:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Teliot Rebburcs Edited by: Teliot Rebburcs on 25/05/2008 07:51:56
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
What a crock of SH*T. This is one of the most disgusting comments I've heard from CCP. You know what would happen if you charged for an expansion.. you would lose every player who didn't want to spend the extra cash to line your pockets with.
How many players do you actually think would stick around if they kept getting pwned in null and low sec by a tier4 BS, kept getting undercut selling mins because of a "super barge" mining twice the amount of their Hulk, or not being able to access parts of the universe and special agents, simply because they didn't want to spend more money?
You then could start comparing yourself to Blizzard and the "Industry standard" and enlist the millions of WoW players to purchase your buggy ass expansions.
As an afterthought you would then lose those players due to the ridiculous lag while they were "raiding".
/me runs off to vomit
uh dude, he was pretty much saying that they DON'T do that. Chill out. _______
Make Races swappable in portraits |
Ballistic CEO
The Ballistic Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.25 08:31:00 -
[630]
so i assume someone at CCP did a:
If this many players and alts quit, but we raise prices this much, heres how much we will have. I submit that whoever did those sums was dead wrong.
However I feel, in summary, that there are several major pertinent points in this thread:
(1) stop Europe subsidising the US. (2) Be more honest when you raise your price. 90% of the people posting here have stated they would happily pay more. (3) Keep 30 and 90 day options at the new higher price HOWEVER find a way to stop character skills training on un-subscribed accounts.
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Roku Kotaki
Celestial Mining and Explorations
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Posted - 2008.05.25 09:10:00 -
[631]
Originally by: The macdaddy
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Red Desire <textbook knowledge>
<The dairy farmer who made sense!>
Dude.... you run a farm it doesnt make you donald trump
And Donald Trump doesn't run the business world, as you may think.
In fact, the small business owner, like Val, knows more about business than Mr. Trump and runs the business world far better. The reason why? Small businesses make up the largest portion of all businesses, worldwide, and know far more of what their employees and customers need and desire, because they stay connected with their employees. And your best customers are usually the ones who work for you.
Your snide remark and the implication that he's just a farmer and knows nothing about business, is ignorant, at best. Any kind of farming is hard work and IMHO, the most competitive industry in the world. I would trust the farming CEO's opinion, before I would trust the word of anybody like Donald Trump. Everybody on this planet needs the goods and services these hard-working people provide.
To be on topic, if CCP (which happens to be a small to mid-size business) decides to follow industry guidelines for GTCs, it's because the profit margins will go up and the red tape will go down, no matter what doomsayers may think, because they have done the market research and found it to be favorable. No company, as succesful as CCP, makes changes that would be detrimental, on a whim.
They may lose a few subscribers, but in the end they will gain way more than you know. If Eve was destined to fail, then why, pray tell, does the subscriber base keep rising after 5 years? They must be doing something right!
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Red Desire
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:04:00 -
[632]
Originally by: Val Vympel
Next you will tell me cattle feed is free.(not to mention all the high-tech equipment that goes into modern dairy farming...or I assume you think we still milk by hand)
Yes, I also think moon is made of cheese and if I find a way to transport it, I would put you out of business.
The be franc with you dear sir, you are a loud month bragging dummy. But to give you a lesson in internet spaceship game forum, nobody gives a crap about what you do in real life, especially if it doesn't have any connection to us. So...we don't care what you do, not care of gallons of milk, not care of tons of cheese... actually we wouldn't care if you were Dalai Lama, if you don't have something to say related EVE.
But because I bashed you for your field of "expertise", I will respond. I have played MMOS for 7 years and I work for a game company in the TOP 5 for 5 years now.
Now our discussion is over, have a nice dairy life!
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:07:00 -
[633]
Edited by: Pohbis on 25/05/2008 10:09:17
Originally by: CCP RyanD Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
Ahem... please. You don't charge for your expansions because:
A) You release smaller expansions, that wouldn't fetch the $29.99 standard retail price, at a faster rate which allows you to advertise new features more frequently to keep EVE mindshare amongst MMO players high.
B) You can advertise with "Free Expansions". "Never pay for an expansion" and other such USPs.
C) Your digital download business plan ( 14-day trial, full client, etc. ) for EVE doesn't leave you with a lot of push/pull with brick and mortar retailers.
D) You don't have to spend x dollars on marketing for each expansion to compete with other MMO expansions ( coupled with A this is quite an amount of money ).
E) Having to account for players for don't own xyz expansion when coding your highly complicated game, saves you quite a lot of headache and manpower in the end.
Don't try and fling it like you are handing us a free present with each expansion. CCPs business plan is the reason for those free expansions, which can hardly be called free when you use them to justify higher costs than your competitors, for similar services.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:32:00 -
[634]
After looking at teh extra costs invloved for living in europe and playing eve. me and teh gf ahve decided to take a holiday to the us. we will renew our cc details while there for our 6 accounts and all the savings (6 x $75)will will pay for the flights, gotta love low priced airlines..lol
thanks ccp for making me think of better ways to spend my cash than giving it to you for just living in the uk rather than the us
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.05.25 12:37:00 -
[635]
HAHAHAHAAA!!! I laugh at all u silly people!
What u expect? CCP is NOT a foundation or a welfare system, there a BUSINESS!!! And people in business are out to make MONEY!!! U know? cash, mullah?
I laugh at the ignorance some of u are showing, thinking that ccp has raised prices for any other purpose then to make more money, if i were ccp boss and i would see business is good but could be even better, and my economics advisor would say we could safely ask for an x amount more a month, i would do so in a heartbeat!
It's simple, if u don't agree u can protest in the most simplest form, just... QUIT!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!! U SILLY PEOPLE!! _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 13:07:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Tomblinu
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Yearly subscription prices:
USA $131.40/year EUR $207.38/year ETC $209.94/year
Europeans are charged 58% extra, those using ETC's will be charged 60% extra.
Seeing the numbers like this makes it look more like the prices for the USA are the exception, that the price in the USA is a rich 37% discount. Maybe everyone else should stop subsidizing the USA, and prices should be more like:
USA $185/year EUR $185/year ETC $185/year
That would mean losing a large portion of their non-European market and would place EVE firmly amongst the most expensive MMO's on the market.
I would say the US is not the exception, I believe anyone outside of Europe has the opportunity to take advantage of the American pricing and many of the rest of us have been paying the American rate via ETC for years. Despite this CCP has certainly not gone under and has in-fact managed to purchase White Wolf, multiple new offices, and massively increase it's staff.
Of course if they lose a large number of accounts (with people getting rid of multiple alts and others quitting all together) we might see a reversal of CCP's fortunes. Especially with them heavily invested in both EVE China and the development of the new World of Darkness MMO.
----------------------------
Originally by: CCP Subscription I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra
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Sindayn Itai
Marmite.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 14:29:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Ataraxa So does anybody know yet what will happen on the 15th of June?
Will they deny 30/90d codes henceforth that we bought already (maybe in anticipation of this move) ?
By law they will have to honour all GTC for 30/90 day regardless of age. What they will do is just stop producing them.
"Love it or Hate it" Marmite CEO |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.25 14:34:00 -
[638]
repost from another forum section...
Quote: All cards will be replaced (30, 50, 90 and 100 days) by 60 day time cards sometime in the near future.
"CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store.
Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008.
This change will not affect other payment options such as credit cards etc."
Credit/Debit card payment options available :
Outside Europe Cost per month/ Total cost 1-month-plan $ 14.95/ $ 14.95 3-month-plan $ 12.95/ $ 38.85 6-month-plan $ 11.95/ $ 71.70 12-month-plan$ 10.95/ $ 131.40
EuropeCost per month / Total cost (VAT included) 1-month-plan€ 14.95/ € 14.95 3-month-plan€ 12.95/ € 38.85 6-month-plan€ 11.95/ € 71.70 12-month-plan€ 10.95/ € 131.40
or... in USD at current USD-EUR exchange rates :
EuropeCost/month / Total cost (VAT included) 1-month-plan$ 23.56 / $ 23.56 3-month-plan$ 20.41 / $ 61.24 6-month-plan$ 18.84/ $ 113.02 12-month-plan$ 17.26/ $ 207.12
The 60-day GTC costs $34.99, or $17.49 per month, almost on par in value per month with the one-year subscription plan for EU players.
The reason for is that EVEN IF the US companies selling GTCs over the Internet should be charging VAT from EU customers, none of them seem to... and thus THEY are commiting (borderline) fiscal evasion. However, it's unlikely the EU will ever do anything about it. The only thing to worry about is your responsability as an EU citizen to pay VAT for that electronic code... even if the local "IRS equivalent" will most probably never send you any notices, you are probably still technically breaking the law.
1|2|3|4|5 |
Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.25 14:40:00 -
[639]
Originally by: Akita T repost from another forum section...
Quote: All cards will be replaced (30, 50, 90 and 100 days) by 60 day time cards sometime in the near future.
"CCP will introduce new 60-day EVE Time Codes (ETC) and Game Time Cards (GTC) for $34.99 USD. These will replace the 30- and 90-day cards that were previously available through authorized resellers and the 50- and 100-day cards sold in the EVE Store. This will affect both online ETC's and Game Time Cards sold in the EVE Online Store.
Orders may still be placed for time cards of all increments while supplies last or until the changeover to the new 60-day cards goes into effect on June 15, 2008.
This change will not affect other payment options such as credit cards etc."
Credit/Debit card payment options available :
Outside Europe Cost per month/ Total cost 1-month-plan $ 14.95/ $ 14.95 3-month-plan $ 12.95/ $ 38.85 6-month-plan $ 11.95/ $ 71.70 12-month-plan$ 10.95/ $ 131.40
EuropeCost per month / Total cost (VAT included) 1-month-planÇ 14.95/ Ç 14.95 3-month-planÇ 12.95/ Ç 38.85 6-month-planÇ 11.95/ Ç 71.70 12-month-planÇ 10.95/ Ç 131.40
or... in USD at current USD-EUR exchange rates :
EuropeCost/month / Total cost (VAT included) 1-month-plan$ 23.56 / $ 23.56 3-month-plan$ 20.41 / $ 61.24 6-month-plan$ 18.84/ $ 113.02 12-month-plan$ 17.26/ $ 207.12
The 60-day GTC costs $34.99, or $17.49 per month, almost on par in value per month with the one-year subscription plan for EU players.
The reason for is that EVEN IF the US companies selling GTCs over the Internet should be charging VAT from EU customers, none of them seem to... and thus THEY are commiting (borderline) fiscal evasion. However, it's unlikely the EU will ever do anything about it. The only thing to worry about is your responsability as an EU citizen to pay VAT for that electronic code... even if the local "IRS equivalent" will most probably never send you any notices, you are probably still technically breaking the law.
the price of $131.40 plus uk vat(17.5%) is $154.40 not the $207 we are made to pay for living in europe. so either give us teh right price or jack up the us subs to be on par with that of teh rest of teh world
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mantium
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:07:00 -
[640]
Im probs just canceling one of my accounts, Its nothing to discuss, just do what you wish. If you dont want to pay higher subscription, dont. If you want to, do. No more magic to it
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u die
Sugarcane Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:40:00 -
[641]
1 month subscription in the US 14.95$ 1 month subscription in the EU 23.56$
Paying more for the same service is priceless.
There are things money cant buy. For the rest... go CCP!
________________________________________________
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Sindayn Itai
Marmite.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:41:00 -
[642]
Edited by: Sindayn Itai on 25/05/2008 15:43:02
They are making profits in the millions. Absorb the cost I say.
All they will do is loose out more money in the long run, recession is on us and keeping the price low will keep the subscriptions coming.
"Love it or Hate it" Marmite CEO |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.25 15:47:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 25/05/2008 13:57:13
Originally by: CCP RyanD Because we don't think we'd get more subscribers at a lower price at this time, and we don't base our pricing model on Blizzards' model. That's why we don't charge you for our bi-yearly expansions (which amounts to about $10 million a year in revenue we don't earn, that you keep as a benefit of our policies.)
Ahem... please. You don't charge for your expansions because:
A) You release smaller expansions, that wouldn't fetch the $29.99 standard retail price, at a faster rate which allows you to advertise new features more frequently to keep EVE mindshare amongst MMO players high.
B) You can advertise with "Free Expansions". "Never pay for an expansion" and other such USPs.
C) Your digital download business plan ( 14-day trial, full client, etc. ) for EVE doesn't leave you with a lot of push/pull with brick and mortar retailers.
D) You don't have to spend x dollars on marketing for each expansion to compete with other MMO expansions ( coupled with A this is quite an amount of money ).
E) Having to account for players who don't own xyz expansion when coding your highly complicated game, saves you quite a lot of headache and manpower in the end.
Don't try and fling it like you are handing us a free present with each expansion. CCPs business plan is the reason for those free expansions, they can hardly be called free when you use them to justify higher costs than your competitors, for similar services.
LOL!
Yeah come on CCP ---- Charge for your expansions... I DARE YOU!
If not - stop acting like your doing us a favour with free expansions
SKUNK
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 16:29:00 -
[644]
People in the richest country in the history of the world can no longer get a month's unlimited play for the price of a medium pizza with cheese. Now they have to pay the cost of a medium pizza with cheese and 2 toppings.
If this doesn't prove to you all that CCP hate every human being on the planet, I don't know what will.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Luca Muso
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:22:00 -
[645]
Edited by: Luca Muso on 25/05/2008 17:25:31 Edited by: Luca Muso on 25/05/2008 17:24:45 Listen carefully, I am a player from the US, if you are as well take some time to think upon what I have to say..
I agree with CCP's decision. It is real simple to find the reasons for it, the US Dollar is very weak.
I'm not, nor have I ever been a polotical person. Mainly because I like to avoid drama. However, the fact is our Dollar is weak and our Government/Leaders are to blame. What do you expect to happen when at War for such an extended period of time.
If anything blame this increase in payment on the fact that the majority of Americans, including myself, have glanced in the other direction as Corruption takes over in our Leaders and our large Corperations.
I don't intend to turn this into a polotical debate, I apologize for that. However, in it's simpliest form that is why Americans are now paying more for EVE than we have in the past so either pay it or help do something about the US Economy.
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evilloz0
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:29:00 -
[646]
Changing the price of game time cards so effectively they cost more is in away black mail to me, people have invested time and money into playing this game and so feel very reluctant to just give it all up, so wen the cost of playing goes up they feel compelled to pay the new inflated price.
CCP make a nice amount of money how things are im sure.
Is there really any need for the price increase???
I could understand if they were in finantial difficulty.
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Breka Muso
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:34:00 -
[647]
Edited by: Breka Muso on 25/05/2008 17:34:31
Originally by: evilloz0 Changing the price of game time cards so effectively they cost more is in away black mail to me, people have invested time and money into playing this game and so feel very reluctant to just give it all up, so wen the cost of playing goes up they feel compelled to pay the new inflated price.
CCP make a nice amount of money how things are im sure.
Is there really any need for the price increase???
I could understand if they were in finantial difficulty.
CCP is a Corperation. Their purpose is to make profit. If our dollar, Americans, falls then they need to increase our payment to make the same amount of profit as before. It is real simple.
If you were arguing about the option for a 30 day GTC I would understand.
I meant to post with Luca Muso, I am not trying to Alt post, my apologies!
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Mystri
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Posted - 2008.05.25 17:35:00 -
[648]
My main points are in yellow.
Conversion Values:
USD-->EUR - 0.6352 EUR-->USD - 1.5742
Current standard sub pricing
Rest of World (RoW)
RoW standard 1-month base sub: $14.95 per month
- --( x Ç0.6352)--> Ç9.49 per month
RoW standard 3-month sub: $38.85 per quarter ($12.95 per month)
- --( x Ç0.6352)--> Ç24.68 per quarter (Ç8.23 per month)
Europe (EU)
EU standard 1-month base sub: Ç14.95 per month
- --( x $1.5742)--> $23.53 per month
EU standard 3-month sub: Ç38.85 per quarter (Ç12.95 per month)
- --( x $1.5742)--> $61.16 per quarter ($20.39 per month)
Europeans pay 57% more.
Current GTC pricing
Example sub paid by GTC's over 1 year. Note: there is not truly 30 days in each month.
30-day: $14.95 / 30 = $0.4983 per day x 365 days = $181.8795 per annum / 12 months = $15.16 per month
- --( x Ç0.6352)--> Ç9.63 per month
90-day: $38.85 / 90 = $0.43167 per day x 365 days = $157.5596 per annum / 12 months = $13.13 per month
- --( x Ç0.6352)--> Ç8.34 per month
Current 'GTC price v Standard subs' show Europeans would save 55% (CCP lose this amount) by purchasing GTC's with EUR-->USD. While those currently paying for GTC's in a USD currency country pay 1.4% (just a couple of dollars) more than a standard sub due to there being 365 days in the year.
New 60-day GTC
60-day: $34.99 / 60 = $0.583167 per day x 365 days = $212.86 per annum / 12 months = $17.74 per month
- --( x Ç0.6352)--> Ç11.27 per month
Note that it now costs $17.74 per month. You could argue that this fair considering Europeans pay $23.53 when subscribing by EUR.
How it affects people who pay for GTC's
60-day GTC v '90-day GTC/standard 3-month sub':
- It is now 35.1% ($4.61/Ç2.93) per month more expensive to use a GTC (there is only one type now).
- If you earn your income in USD, you would now be better off paying by Credit Card/Other means.
- Europeans would now only save 15% (Ç1.68) per month compared to a standard 3-month sub, a increase of 40% (Ç2.93) per month.
60-day GTC v '30-day GTC/standard 1-month sub':
- It is now 17% ($2.58/Ç1.64) per month more expensive to use a GTC (there is only one type now).
- Again, if you earn your income in USD, you would now be better off paying by Credit Card/Other means.
- Europeans would now save 33% (Ç3.68) per month compared to a standard 1-month sub, a increase of 22% (Ç1.64) per month.
For people who earn and pay for their GTC's in USD, GTC's are effectively redundant. They are only of use to Europeans who pay EUR-->USD for them. Even then they are only worthwhile if you currently pay monthly by EUR, as credit card charges for a USD purchase may shave even more off any savings. Notice that CCP are effectively trying to stop income lost through the 90-day GTC.
This is an unusual business decision. CCP have effectively stopped selling GTC's to people in the United States. The only market now for GTC's are countries using the Euro currency or have a strong currency value against the dollar. They are effectively forcing people in the United States to use credit cards/other payment means. That's one hell of a gamble to play with your customers, never mind the GTC resellers.
Mystri |
Morphisat
Rakeriku Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:00:00 -
[649]
Nice math mystri. The cc sub is still the most expensive one, 11 euro / month for a 60 day card is still not too bad.
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Lugaid Laga
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:31:00 -
[650]
Nice breakdown of the percentages there ...
In real terms it means that this account (which is 1 of 3 I have) is after going over what I am prepared to pay and will be set with Caldari BS 5 and left in mothballs so to speak. I may train him up to a level where he is useful as a second char on one of my other accounts or just sell him.
Effectively with the increases in GTC's CCP have lost out on 5 euros (number pulled from ass, but its around that) from me even though I still play the game (well, skill changing and waiting for something good to happen in the game) |
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:36:00 -
[651]
Originally by: Roku Kotaki
Originally by: The macdaddy
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Red Desire <textbook knowledge>
<The dairy farmer who made sense!>
Dude.... you run a farm it doesnt make you donald trump
And Donald Trump doesn't run the business world, as you may think.
In fact, the small business owner, like Val, knows more about business than Mr. Trump and runs the business world far better. The reason why? Small businesses make up the largest portion of all businesses, worldwide, and know far more of what their employees and customers need and desire, because they stay connected with their employees. And your best customers are usually the ones who work for you.
Your snide remark and the implication that he's just a farmer and knows nothing about business, is ignorant, at best. Any kind of farming is hard work and IMHO, the most competitive industry in the world. I would trust the farming CEO's opinion, before I would trust the word of anybody like Donald Trump. Everybody on this planet needs the goods and services these hard-working people provide.
To be on topic, if CCP (which happens to be a small to mid-size business) decides to follow industry guidelines for GTCs, it's because the profit margins will go up and the red tape will go down, no matter what doomsayers may think, because they have done the market research and found it to be favorable. No company, as succesful as CCP, makes changes that would be detrimental, on a whim.
They may lose a few subscribers, but in the end they will gain way more than you know. If Eve was destined to fail, then why, pray tell, does the subscriber base keep rising after 5 years? They must be doing something right!
Sir,I applaud you.
Sensible and sober and very well worded. And my appreciation for your kind and considerate words.
And to the player who said I was not Donald Trump.... Thank you,for the compliment...have you seen his hair.
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Luca Muso
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Posted - 2008.05.25 18:55:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Roku Kotaki
Originally by: The macdaddy
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: Red Desire <textbook knowledge>
<The dairy farmer who made sense!>
Dude.... you run a farm it doesnt make you donald trump
And Donald Trump doesn't run the business world, as you may think.
In fact, the small business owner, like Val, knows more about business than Mr. Trump and runs the business world far better. The reason why? Small businesses make up the largest portion of all businesses, worldwide, and know far more of what their employees and customers need and desire, because they stay connected with their employees. And your best customers are usually the ones who work for you.
Your snide remark and the implication that he's just a farmer and knows nothing about business, is ignorant, at best. Any kind of farming is hard work and IMHO, the most competitive industry in the world. I would trust the farming CEO's opinion, before I would trust the word of anybody like Donald Trump. Everybody on this planet needs the goods and services these hard-working people provide.
To be on topic, if CCP (which happens to be a small to mid-size business) decides to follow industry guidelines for GTCs, it's because the profit margins will go up and the red tape will go down, no matter what doomsayers may think, because they have done the market research and found it to be favorable. No company, as succesful as CCP, makes changes that would be detrimental, on a whim.
They may lose a few subscribers, but in the end they will gain way more than you know. If Eve was destined to fail, then why, pray tell, does the subscriber base keep rising after 5 years? They must be doing something right!
Well said, swift words to cut down people speak before they think.
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.25 19:10:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Red Desire
Originally by: Val Vympel
Next you will tell me cattle feed is free.(not to mention all the high-tech equipment that goes into modern dairy farming...or I assume you think we still milk by hand)
Yes, I also think moon is made of cheese and if I find a way to transport it, I would put you out of business.
The be franc with you dear sir, you are a loud month bragging dummy. But to give you a lesson in internet spaceship game forum, nobody gives a crap about what you do in real life, especially if it doesn't have any connection to us. So...we don't care what you do, not care of gallons of milk, not care of tons of cheese... actually we wouldn't care if you were Dalai Lama, if you don't have something to say related EVE.
But because I bashed you for your field of "expertise", I will respond. I have played MMOS for 7 years and I work for a game company in the TOP 5 for 5 years now.
Now our discussion is over, have a nice dairy life!
Now....removed from the shadows of complete anonimity you are an opponent worthy of my respect.
I applaud you and your stance,irregardless if you respect me or mine.
Good day,and I hope this GTC/ETC situation resolves itself to your satisfaction.
As to your position on "internet protocol". A pile of steaming manure has more worth to me than your opinion on this matter. I don't give a crap about what conventions and covenants that I break or fail to observe concerning my style of posting.
NOW!...the discussion is over. Enjoy whatever liberal rag you are reading and remember where the milk comes from in the latte that you are sipping.
May the digital god(s) bless you richly.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 19:20:00 -
[654]
Thanks CPP, thank you for making my life harder.
ú6.50 a month with old 90 GTC's or ú78 a year ú8.8 a month with new GTC a month ú105 a year ú8.71 a month with a one year subscription ú104 a year (IN EUROS) ú11 a month with a one month subscription ú132 a year (IN EUROS) ú5.5 a month with a 12 months subscription ú66 a year (IN DOllars) ú7.5 a month with a one month subsciption ú90 a year (IN Dollars)
Well now i will struggle to pay for this game thanks to CPP's retartness. Now they have decided to scrap 90 days i have to find a way to pay for this game. As 90 day was long enough peroid for me to sort my account out so i could pay for the next 90 days.
Now if they actually standardised the credit card subsciption so that US players didnt pay less i wouldn't mind. However increasing the prices of the GTC's just puts ppl in europe out of pocket (as US players pay in dollars while everyone else pays in euros (in terms of subscription anyway)).
Now anyone with half a brain should see that the US are getting a way better deal infact the can actually save even more money than now (with 90 GTC's) if they buy a year plan. Now how the hell is this fair PLZ FFS CPP STANDARDISE UR PRICES STOP MAKING PPL IN EUROPE SUFFER FOR AMERICAN SHORT COMMINGS.
Personnally i dont really care about the price increase what ****es me off more than anything in the world is why should American Players get a better deal. ALso anyone who says its politics is stupid that has nothing to do with it. I just cant understand why they think its fair to raise the prices of everyone no american.
Now if American's had to pay the same as us (in otherwords everyone paid in euros i would be happy) Why does CPP think they should charge less for a game in one country just cause they have a **** exchange rate. It's not like american's earn more or europeans earn more. E.g Mcdonolds working in england will get paid 5 pounds in america its 10 dollars.
Simply im just ****ed off at CPP's favoritism to American's COME ON CPP Sort IT out instead of trying to get more money out of European Players.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:10:00 -
[655]
Everything is Europe is more expensive than in America. The price of cigarettes & petrol is ridiculous. PS3 and Xbobx cost far more than they do in the U.S.
I would have thought you'd be used to it by now
Also, people actually buy GTCs and use them themselves? I had no idea, I thought people bought GTCs and sold them ingame for ISK.
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Fantaxy
Viagra Lovers
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:27:00 -
[656]
You also removes guys who trade GTC for ISK.. so back to ccp fubar the players again.. thanks
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:31:00 -
[657]
Yea like i said economics doesnt come into it. DOesnt matter what cost where u should always pay the same price for a subsciption no matter where u are espesically a game where exchange rates have no matter (yes i think EVE should change everyone in EURO's or Dollars not both).
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:36:00 -
[658]
Yea not just ppl who buy GTC's for ISK but also the oppersite way round. However this wont happen exactly it will just make it not worth selling them as ISK farmers will be able to provide a better deal. Well done CPP wait to go giving the ISK Farmers and Micro Miners more reasons to stay (ISk prices will go up along with the prices of GTC's in isk). So to ppl who paid with ISK this is pretty much the end (i know alot of ppl who do this and they are struggling atm let alone after the GTC's). Ppl buying GTC's to sell for ISK will also wont bother as risk/reward will be so much greater buying it from ISK Farmers instead of other real players. Well done CPP
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:42:00 -
[659]
Originally by: IonKnight E.g Mcdonolds working in england will get paid 5 pounds in america its 10 dollars.
FYI: Few(a very small tenured minority)people working for McDonalds in the United States earn an hourly rate of $10.00 per hour. The vast majority work for the US minimum wage($5.85 per hour) or just above it(approx. 10% to 15% more)
Managers and assistant managers at the store level(not corporate)earn in the $10.00 range(or slightly more)..however....nearly all of them are salary and work an average of 50 to 55 or more hours per week. Do the math and even managers earn little more than their hourly counterparts.(company benefits considered)
5 pound sterling per hour to work for McDonalds in the UK...it would appear that...Ronald McDonald is a more generous clown to you than he is to us.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:05:00 -
[660]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 21:12:54 "FYI: Few(a very small tenured minority)people working for McDonalds in the United States earn an hourly rate of $10.00 per hour. The vast majority work for the US minimum wage($5.85 per hour) or just above it(approx. 10% to 15% more)
Managers and assistant managers at the store level(not corporate)earn in the $10.00 range(or slightly more)..however....nearly all of them are salary and work an average of 50 to 55 or more hours per week. Do the math and even managers earn little more than their hourly counterparts.(company benefits considered)
5 pound sterling per hour to work for McDonalds in the UK...it would appear that...Ronald McDonald is a more generous clown to you than he is to us.
Wink"
FYI ur an idiot!!!. I was using that as an example yes americans might earn a little less or a little more than that but then mcdonolds workers in the UK dont earn 5 pounds an hour (infact alot less than that infact its just the minimum wage. Anyway my point was not on how much u earn compared to us i was showing u that two people in two different countries still technically get paid the same cause things cost relative to ur exchange rate. E.g If it get paid a tenner and something cost u 1 dollar its going to cost 50 p here as that tenner is the equivilent to a 5er. If u dont understand what im talking about just dont talk think we would all be better for it :P
Anyway my whole example was there to show that Europeans get a unfair deal compared to eve. Also if another american comes on an says u should be used to things cost more. No i dont expect a thing that costs exactly the same to CPP whether they are in US UK or europe to cost differently just cause CPP feels like giving US players alot better deal. Simply Put American players should pay what we pay and thats final. If we have to pay 131 euros u should have to its not our fault or CPP's fault that ur country has a **** exchange rate if u dont like it get used to it (ur exchange rate has nearly always been 2 dollars to one pound).
But as i said CPP seem to favour US players which is stupid and unfair and doesnt make sense. They say they are standardising prices, wrong!! they are just making it more expensive for European player while still giving america an awesome deal. COME ON CPP STOP subsidising American players and start GIVING EVERYONE THE SAME DEAL FFS
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:18:00 -
[661]
Originally by: IonKnight FYI ur an idiot!!!.
Please..correct me if I'm wrong...but I do not recall personally attacking you in my comment.
But...now I will.
I am profoundly disappointed that a citizen of a nation noted for their collective manners and etiquette would stoop to calling me...a mere yankee...an idiot.
*tips hat
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:20:00 -
[662]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 21:21:57 Hehe wasnt meant to be harsh but u have to call urself a bit of a dooch on correcting my example u were aware of why i put it in there yet u comment on the example like it is fact. So i think i have a reason to call u an idiot on quoting something that is used to give ppl a general understand of economics. Then u flaming it cause its not exactly right.
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Tek'a Rain
Collegium Mechanicae Holding
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:23:00 -
[663]
Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 25/05/2008 21:24:58
Originally by: Mystri They are effectively forcing people in the United States to use credit cards/other payment means. That's one hell of a gamble to play with your customers, never mind the GTC resellers.
I know its different in the UK/around the world, but I know here in the States it is nearly Impossible to Avoid having a "credit card". In quotes of course because the easiest card to obtain is a Visa or Mastercard "branded" ATM card. Simply, it is an ATM card that is also a credit card, though there is no line of credit in most cases as it comes right out of the connected account.
This means that, with a few shreds of exceptions, Anyone with a checking or savings account, anyone who has money in a bank, can pay out of it, rarely a hassle. The only groups I can see having trouble would be people with no money at All (for whom Eve should not be a concern) and cash-only fugitives from justice who live in shacks in the woods.. also not a huge focus group for Eve.
This whole change seems like a (somewhat poorly handled) cinching up of a loophole combined with an attempt to streamline different products.
And a reminder to those folks who A) refuse to take the time/effort to understand this or B) are canceling their 40 million accounts.. Your stuff belongs in the hands of a caring person like me.. I am only a Contract away!
EDIT: And remember! Regular Subs are NOT GOING UP FOR AMERICANS/IN DOLLARS. This change is for Timecodes Only!
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Sabrina Treadehugger
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 21:33:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 25/05/2008 21:24:58
Originally by: Mystri They are effectively forcing people in the United States to use credit cards/other payment means. That's one hell of a gamble to play with your customers, never mind the GTC resellers.
I know its different in the UK/around the world, but I know here in the States it is nearly Impossible to Avoid having a "credit card". In quotes of course because the easiest card to obtain is a Visa or Mastercard "branded" ATM card. Simply, it is an ATM card that is also a credit card, though there is no line of credit in most cases as it comes right out of the connected account.
This means that, with a few shreds of exceptions, Anyone with a checking or savings account, anyone who has money in a bank, can pay out of it, rarely a hassle. The only groups I can see having trouble would be people with no money at All (for whom Eve should not be a concern) and cash-only fugitives from justice who live in shacks in the woods.. also not a huge focus group for Eve.
This whole change seems like a (somewhat poorly handled) cinching up of a loophole combined with an attempt to streamline different products.
And a reminder to those folks who A) refuse to take the time/effort to understand this or B) are canceling their 40 million accounts.. Your stuff belongs in the hands of a caring person like me.. I am only a Contract away!
EDIT: And remember! Regular Subs are NOT GOING UP FOR AMERICANS/IN DOLLARS. This change is for Timecodes Only!
A) refuse to take the time/effort to understand this
hey you're also in this cattegory can i have your stuff ?
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Tek'a Rain
Collegium Mechanicae Holding
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:39:00 -
[665]
Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 25/05/2008 21:40:19
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger
hey you're also in this cattegory can i have your stuff ?
Your.. a little slow, is that it? Train Reading to level one, then come back and try again, wont you?
Or stop ****-posting and try to be coherent.
Change does not terribly effect people in US, as its dead easy to find a way to pay for Eve, no GTC needed.
Change does not Effect people in Europe/etc paying via Sub or buying Eur/e timecodes.
Change Does effect people who were cheating CCP and buying from the wrong location, and also effects people who buy their way ahead with GTC-Isk transfers. Nothing wrong with stopping cheaters and people who buy isk, is there?
Of course, I dont agree with the removal of most card types. Fixing the system is great, but taking away flexibility is never cool.
edit: UK changed to Europe/etc
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:46:00 -
[666]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 25/05/2008 21:46:23
Originally by: Tiirae Everything is Europe is more expensive than in America. The price of cigarettes & petrol is ridiculous. PS3 and Xbobx cost far more than they do in the U.S.
I would have thought you'd be used to it by now
The reason for that expense is VAT, certain transactions are exempt, online subscription services are on of them.
Originally by: Tiirae Also, people actually buy GTCs and use them themselves? I had no idea, I thought people bought GTCs and sold them ingame for ISK.
You did read a couple of pages of the thread at least? People buy ETC's to avoid paying substantially more simply for living in the wrong country.
----------------------------
Originally by: CCP Subscription I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra
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IonKnight
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 21:47:00 -
[667]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 21:49:30 Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 21:48:21 Tek'a Rain
The whole reason in the first place we had to use GTc's from other countries was because the european sub is massively higher than the american sub. Why is that fair ?
If u look at my earlier post its cheaper for American players no matter what (even if europeans buy from SC). So actually do some maths before u make wild comments
Daelin Blackleaf thanks for actually reading the post unlike some ppl :D.
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Winry Rockbell
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:50:00 -
[668]
Surley the solution is simple CCP do what they should have done when they first looked at it and move to the USA, this is their best and only choice in the long run really.
Iceland may be nice and all but if you where owned by a cold hatred business man you would have moved to the USA long ago, sold all subscriptions in USD and been a lot richer relatively to the rest of the population of your new home land.
Instead you want to be cold and live in place called ICELAND, (I am sure there are plenty of nice things about Iceland, but like most things nice about some place the rest of us don't like, I bet you have to have grown up there to know what it is.) as for all this industry stand rubbish, pull the other one, its industry standard to be in the USA and charge in USD's.
NOT Icland and charge allsorts, if you want to get with the standard move to America, At the end of the day its your choice just like its my choice where to spend my cash, while it may be my choice now to spend it with you, it does not mean it will be my choice to continue to do so in the future.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:54:00 -
[669]
"Surley the solution is simple CCP do what they should have done when they first looked at it and move to the USA, this is their best and only choice in the long run really.
Iceland may be nice and all but if you where owned by a cold hatred business man you would have moved to the USA long ago, sold all subscriptions in USD and been a lot richer relatively to the rest of the population of your new home land.
Instead you want to be cold and live in place called ICELAND, (I am sure there are plenty of nice things about Iceland, but like most things nice about some place the rest of us don't like, I bet you have to have grown up there to know what it is.) as for all this industry stand rubbish, pull the other one, its industry standard to be in the USA and charge in USD's.
NOT Icland and charge allsorts, if you want to get with the standard move to America, At the end of the day its your choice just like its my choice where to spend my cash, while it may be my choice now to spend it with you, it does not mean it will be my choice to continue to do so in the future."
Got it smack bang on the nail there. U dont see any other MMO selling there subsciption charges in different prices.
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Tatoed Goat
I like Goats
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:13:00 -
[670]
Originally by: IonKnight "Surley the solution is simple CCP do what they should have done when they first looked at it and move to the USA, this is their best and only choice in the long run really.
Iceland may be nice and all but if you where owned by a cold hatred business man you would have moved to the USA long ago, sold all subscriptions in USD and been a lot richer relatively to the rest of the population of your new home land.
Instead you want to be cold and live in place called ICELAND, (I am sure there are plenty of nice things about Iceland, but like most things nice about some place the rest of us don't like, I bet you have to have grown up there to know what it is.) as for all this industry stand rubbish, pull the other one, its industry standard to be in the USA and charge in USD's.
NOT Icland and charge allsorts, if you want to get with the standard move to America, At the end of the day its your choice just like its my choice where to spend my cash, while it may be my choice now to spend it with you, it does not mean it will be my choice to continue to do so in the future."
Got it smack bang on the nail there. U dont see any other MMO selling there subsciption charges in different prices.
Another ignorant US citizen who can't accept the fact that his own country has ruined its economy and devalued its currency so much that people would rather get paid in Roubles than in the US Dollar. Now sad little child get off the internet and jump off a building because the US doesn't rule the world anymore unless its with debt.
What is unfair is that the US citizens are charged a lot less than European ones. CCP should simply charge everyone in Euro's. The fact that the spelling in the game is US English is frustrating and stupid enough, there's no need to have double standards. The excuse that the US Dollar is dropping and therefore prices need to be increased are ridiculous. If that's the case then switch over to the Euro and have that as measure. Sure, you'll anger the small minded US off but at least it will be fair and CCP will continue to make money without the need for a price increase.
I have already written a letter of complaint to the European office of trade and would like to ask all others unhappy with this to do the same. Iceland isn't in the EU but still has to abide by trade laws of the EU. ----------------------------------------------- Goons or Ebola... I'll take Ebola over Noob Ship Online. |
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Tatoed Goat
I like Goats
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:22:00 -
[671]
Quote:
For people who earn and pay for their GTC's in USD, GTC's are effectively redundant. They are only of use to Europeans who pay EUR-->USD for them. Even then they are only worthwhile if you currently pay monthly by EUR, as credit card charges for a USD purchase may shave even more off any savings. Notice that CCP are effectively trying to stop income lost through the 90-day GTC.
This is an unusual business decision. CCP have effectively stopped selling GTC's to people in the United States. The only market now for GTC's are countries using the Euro currency or have a strong currency value against the dollar. They are effectively forcing people in the United States to use credit cards/other payment means. That's one hell of a gamble to play with your customers, never mind the GTC resellers.
And they are forcing Europeans to pay more so where is the fairness? You already said that Europeans pay 57% more and yet you still defend 40% of the playerbase. CCP should simply use the Euro and not the Dollar, simple as that. ----------------------------------------------- Goons or Ebola... I'll take Ebola over Noob Ship Online. |
Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 01:27:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Tatoed Goat
Originally by: IonKnight "Surley the solution is simple CCP do what they should have done when they first looked at it and move to the USA, this is their best and only choice in the long run really.
Iceland may be nice and all but if you where owned by a cold hatred business man you would have moved to the USA long ago, sold all subscriptions in USD and been a lot richer relatively to the rest of the population of your new home land.
Instead you want to be cold and live in place called ICELAND, (I am sure there are plenty of nice things about Iceland, but like most things nice about some place the rest of us don't like, I bet you have to have grown up there to know what it is.) as for all this industry stand rubbish, pull the other one, its industry standard to be in the USA and charge in USD's.
NOT Icland and charge allsorts, if you want to get with the standard move to America, At the end of the day its your choice just like its my choice where to spend my cash, while it may be my choice now to spend it with you, it does not mean it will be my choice to continue to do so in the future."
Got it smack bang on the nail there. U dont see any other MMO selling there subsciption charges in different prices.
Another ignorant US citizen who can't accept the fact that his own country has ruined its economy and devalued its currency so much that people would rather get paid in Roubles than in the US Dollar. Now sad little child get off the internet and jump off a building because the US doesn't rule the world anymore unless its with debt.
What is unfair is that the US citizens are charged a lot less than European ones. CCP should simply charge everyone in Euro's. The fact that the spelling in the game is US English is frustrating and stupid enough, there's no need to have double standards. The excuse that the US Dollar is dropping and therefore prices need to be increased are ridiculous. If that's the case then switch over to the Euro and have that as measure. Sure, you'll anger the small minded US off but at least it will be fair and CCP will continue to make money without the need for a price increase.
I have already written a letter of complaint to the European office of trade and would like to ask all others unhappy with this to do the same. Iceland isn't in the EU but still has to abide by trade laws of the EU.
It was for people like you that the term "Eurotrash" was coined.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:00:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Tatoed Goat I have already written a letter of complaint to the European office of trade and would like to ask all others unhappy with this to do the same.
That's a good one. Think I'll write my senator about your posting. ___________________________________________
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Luca Muso
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:04:00 -
[674]
I have a solution. Everyone who is whining that they will have to pay a slight increase in GTC do the following:
1. Give me your stuff 2. Uninstall EVE 3. Go play WoW
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:28:00 -
[675]
Originally by: Luca Muso I have a solution. Everyone who is whining that they will have to pay a slight increase in GTC do the following:
1. Give me your stuff 2. Uninstall EVE 3. Go play WoW
I think I'll go farm my extra isk for my subscription payment in a crowded mission hub. And I hope it lags a node that you're on when I do it, jackass.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Tatoed Goat
I like Goats
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Posted - 2008.05.26 03:53:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Val Vympel
It was for people like you that the term "Eurotrash" was coined. [)
As opposed to 'swamptrash'? ----------------------------------------------- Goons or Ebola... I'll take Ebola over Noob Ship Online. |
Pinel
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Posted - 2008.05.26 04:02:00 -
[677]
I can understand the price increase, but please keep the options, the convenience really helps having more than just 1 gtc, 30 and 90 really makes things easier. I know I buy 30 day gtc with isk and it helps me continue playing. The convenience of the 30/60/90 really helped.
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Sabrina Treadehugger
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:40:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 25/05/2008 21:40:19
Originally by: Sabrina Treadehugger
hey you're also in this cattegory can i have your stuff ?
Your.. a little slow, is that it? Train Reading to level one, then come back and try again, wont you?
Or stop ****-posting and try to be coherent.
Change does not terribly effect people in US, as its dead easy to find a way to pay for Eve, no GTC needed.
Change does not Effect people in Europe/etc paying via Sub or buying Eur/e timecodes.
Change Does effect people who were cheating CCP and buying from the wrong location, and also effects people who buy their way ahead with GTC-Isk transfers. Nothing wrong with stopping cheaters and people who buy isk, is there?
Of course, I dont agree with the removal of most card types. Fixing the system is great, but taking away flexibility is never cool.
edit: UK changed to Europe/etc
Pls train Reading and Writing to level one, then come back and try again, won't you?
You know jack**** about europe(it's not all E.U. and euro yet) or about the rest of the world, come back when you are less ignorant and can spell.
Oh and cheaters lol , you could say they cheat the vat or the local irs but not ccp, all they do is not pay more than americans or other non euro countries.
Isk buyers will get more isk out of this by selling 2 months instead of 3 months for the same price but with more demand.
And it's affect not effect , moron !
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:12:00 -
[679]
dont you just know someone from ccp is reading all this thinking(well possibling thinking) well we have ****** a lot of US players off, We have ****** a lot of european players off. But **** them we want more money so nothing gonna make us think our choice is a stupid one and who cares that the US gets a 57% discount
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omglollolol
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Posted - 2008.05.26 08:36:00 -
[680]
Edited by: omglollolol on 26/05/2008 08:36:49 now that I realized how big noob I was paying monthly fee via cc... 15 euro - 27$ per month, when I could get 38$ per 3 month, I have completely no problem with CCP raising prices and introducing 60d. GTC... fair enuf, and still cheaper than 30 euro per 2 months.
Balance to everyone uh, those who don't agree read my sig and/or kiss my *insert your fantazies here* GJ CCP ____________________________ You may not share my intellect, which might explain your disrespect, for all I say ;p _________________ |
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Going Forit
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:28:00 -
[681]
This thread deserves atleast another week on first page
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Prochura
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:33:00 -
[682]
I'll have to close my second account..:(
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CWevers
Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:35:00 -
[683]
/signed
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Mystri
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 12:35:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Tatoed Goat
Originally by: Mystri For people who earn and pay for their GTC's in USD, GTC's are effectively redundant. They are only of use to Europeans who pay EUR-->USD for them. Even then they are only worthwhile if you currently pay monthly by EUR, as credit card charges for a USD purchase may shave even more off any savings. Notice that CCP are effectively trying to stop income lost through the 90-day GTC.
This is an unusual business decision. CCP have effectively stopped selling GTC's to people in the United States. The only market now for GTC's are countries using the Euro currency or have a strong currency value against the dollar. They are effectively forcing people in the United States to use credit cards/other payment means. That's one hell of a gamble to play with your customers, never mind the GTC resellers.
And they are forcing Europeans to pay more so where is the fairness? You already said that Europeans pay 57% more and yet you still defend 40% of the playerbase. ...
I wouldn't say they are forcing Europeans to pay more, Europeans are paying more by default because of the USD devaluation. It wasn't always like this and it may change in the future if USD rises in value.
"Europeans pay 57% more and yet you still defend 40% of the playerbase". It's called having an open mind and seeing different points of view, you must try it... it's quite liberating when you break free of the tunnel-vision. And, erm... can you you please provide evidence that the entire US (40%) playerbase use GTC's and all Europeans use EUR subscriptions only, because you are comparing apples & oranges with my points there (they were under different headings to aid understanding).
Originally by: Tatoed Goat ... CCP should simply use the Euro and not the Dollar, simple as that.
No it's not "as simple as that". It's a lose-lose situation for CCP at the current time. A rough breakdown of EUR subs v USD subs.
By changing all prices to the USD, CCP loses 57% (or 32.5% if take Icelandic VAT (24.5%) into account) revenue from EUR customers. Customers are happy, CCP's Bank manager has a heart attack. By changing to EUR, CCP loses a good portion of it's player base who pay in USD because of a 57% price hike. Customers are unhappy, CCP's Bank manager has a heart attack.
Either:
- CCP wait until EUR/USD equalise, then change to single currency (CCP would have to absorb future currency fluctuations).
- Divide up subscription currencies into equal (converted) values for major currencies, then review prices every 6 months, or at the end of every financial year.
- Do nothing and let currency markets dictate who's paying what.
CCP take a kick in the financial fun bags? Fat chance, they have other projects cooking and a large new wage bill coming up (at least $2 million there, 51 positions plus plurals).
OMG i'm defending CCP now!
Originally by: Tatoed Goat ... I have already written a letter of complaint to the European office of trade and would like to ask all others unhappy with this to do the same. Iceland isn't in the EU but still has to abide by trade laws of the EU.
Thanks for the laugh. I take it you will be suing them next...
News just in! Iceland ejected from EFTA for charging Europeans too much to for an internet spaceships game!
Mystri |
Korth
Serenity Technology
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:50:00 -
[685]
Let's just use the Eve subscription rate as the basis for the Euro/USD exchange rate. That seems to be what y'all are asking.
And Val do you get any of that 290 billion dollar farm subsidy money that was just passed?
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Kransthow
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:03:00 -
[686]
lol at price hike tears lol at isk buyer tears lol at ccp removing 30 day and 90 day
overall thread grade: A+ would read again
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:26:00 -
[687]
Did the 2005 proposition to have VAT charged at the customers rate go through or is the providers rate still applied?
----------------------------
Originally by: CCP Subscription I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.05.26 14:41:00 -
[688]
These lazy americans should get off their butss and go get a job or something.
This would equalise out the exchange whatchama-thingy and everyone will be happy.
SKUNK
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Makhan
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Posted - 2008.05.26 14:53:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Le Skunk These lazy americans should get off their butss and go get a job or something.
This would equalise out the exchange whatchama-thingy and everyone will be happy.
SKUNK
Kill yourself.
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Kartala
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:06:00 -
[690]
i have to close my alts too...
thx ccp, uve more money, but less players - its that what u want? okok, less ppl on tq, less lag, more money. nice tactic..:/
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.26 17:43:00 -
[691]
Originally by: Korth And Val do you get any of that 290 billion dollar farm subsidy money that was just passed?
No..no subsidies here.
Aside from the standard tax breaks I receive for the charities that I donate to.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:39:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Kartala i have to close my alts too...
thx ccp, uve more money, but less players - its that what u want? okok, less ppl on tq, less lag, more money. nice tactic..:/
Too bad it doesn't work like that. Less people means only less money. The lag is due to a lot of players liking the same system. If the nimber of droped subscriptions go far enough that it is noticed in the liked system there will be a bigger problems than lag (like noone playing the game :D ).
Anyway now they can brag about leading industry in both charging for the game and ****ing of your customers :)
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:59:00 -
[693]
when i bought a year subs last year it was 131.40 euro.. which in our own currency pounds sterling, was ú90. now as my year is nearly up i once again have to pay 131.4 euro. but as the pound has gone down against teh euro i have to pay ú105. a increase of 18%.
this is something americans are not having to deal with. you get to pay in your own currencey and it dosnt matter how its doing against anything else.
so when ccp says they havnt put the sub's up.. you have by making me pay in a currency thats isnt the one i get paid in
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Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:01:00 -
[694]
So CCP will be making more money?
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:04:00 -
[695]
nope most likly 131.40 euros less, as i will have to close my alt account. ú210 for 2 accounts is to much on a space ship game. a us player could get 3 for the same prices
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Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:18:00 -
[696]
Well, in my humble opinion ... CCP as we know it is dead.
Oveur once mentioned something about footsteps in the snow or something like that and that CCP is making them and not following them. Following a pricing model ... please welcome CCP to the corporate world where penny pushers have more say then common sense.
CCP, in the past, has done good. They made single cluster gameworld, against all rules of the gaming industry. They gave us free expansions, something unique it was.
Now, they are drastically raising the entry level price of the game effectively killing the chances for "young blood" to join us. I think that this is the most stupid move anyone could make.
Why ?
You mention "WoW" to somebody and pretty much everybody, unless you live in cave somewhere and have never surfed the net, kowns what you talking about. Now, here comes EVE-Online ... nice ads on gaming site, intriguing but not mainstream or easy to understand when you come from other MMO's. You get yourself a trial ... 14 days ... well, you do not need credit card for that. Let's do that. You stick your nose in, looks nice ... let's subscribe.
Here comes what I am on about ... the entry level, non Credit Card fee is what now ... 35$ US instead of 15.
This is a very very bad business move. I do not complain bout the raise, as many have said they are willing to pay more, so am I. It's about making the game more inaccessible to new players. I do understand the financial firlefanz and jumbo mumbo only halfways ,wife does my accounting, so I do not care about how much my accounts cost as long as she doesn't frown.
Bottom line, the question to CCP:
Dear CCP,
have you thought about "new subscribers" and how you raise the obstacles for them to join your game ?
Regards,
FC
PS: As usual, follow the thoughts and not my writing, they normally overtake each other when I type.
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Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:57:00 -
[697]
Well, Monday is over and nothing that I can see from ccp? It would be nice to know that ccp take the player base serious. Anyone hear or see anything from them yet? |
Rastadeen
The Singularity Project Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:07:00 -
[698]
Funny thing with this is, prices go up when currency drops blabla... But do prices go down when currency goes back up? Not likely :D
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Tank CEO
Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:09:00 -
[699]
I don't agree with removing 90day gtc. I really enjoy paying isk for those and not have to worry about payment for 3 months.
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Ehronn
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.05.26 20:14:00 -
[700]
I know prices eventually have to go up due to inflation, but PLEASE let us keep the convenience of having the 30, 60, and 90 day codes.
I use the 30 day gtc's usually myself with isk due to disability and it makes things much more easier and convenient.
hopefully they'll reconsider. But who knows -----------------------
Dysfunctional Playground |
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:39:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Rorin Cutter Well, Monday is over and nothing that I can see from ccp? It would be nice to know that ccp take the player base serious. Anyone hear or see anything from them yet?
looks like they are happy that the customers are happy
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Snake Tanuki
ZiTek
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Posted - 2008.05.27 01:31:00 -
[702]
What doesn't seem fair to me is that even with 19% VAT I still pay way more Ç than someone paying in $. $15 with VAT would translate to about Ç11.50, not Ç14.95 I'm not the one responsible for the weak $ ok? In the EU we have problems too, we have unemplyment here in germany, our food gets more expensive, our gas prices sky rocketed in the last months, our health care system costs more than it should and so on.
So I really understand if some people prefer to buy their gametime abroad. Why should only big companies benefit from globalization? Everytime the little man could benefit from worldwide trade. it's illegal. Companies build there hardware in china for half the cost, but I have to pay full price so the bosses can get richer and spend time with more expensive callgirls? Sure. Tax Evasion? Half of the month salary flows into a myriad of taxes. How is that evasion?
Anyways, I could live with a moderate price increase on GTCs. Maybe the current one is a little steep, oddly enough still cheaper than paying in Ç. What really bothers me is the loss of flexibility with only 60 days to choose from. I fail to see the big hassle CCP has with GTCs. They can sell them in a bulk to the resellers, which then sell it to customers. Meaning that resellers have to deal with all payment issues and customer problems instead of CCP. If more people get the credit card or bank account abo, CCP has to deal with any payment related issues, thus having more work for customer services. Is this really so much better?
All your goats are belong to us! |
Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.27 01:36:00 -
[703]
Originally by: Val Vympel
Originally by: IonKnight FYI ur an idiot!!!.
I am profoundly disappointed that a citizen of a nation noted for their collective manners and etiquette would stoop to calling me...a mere yankee...an idiot.
*tips hat
Im a Texan
He did not need to tell me that about you Yankees! Seriously who in the right mind lives in a climate where you can walk on rivers and the precipitation needs to be dug up with a shovel for nearly half the year. Personaly I would wrather be sunburned than frostbit!
Just kidding!
Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
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Shinzu Takigawa
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Posted - 2008.05.27 02:52:00 -
[704]
Seems like CCP wana make more money in uk terms it will raise cost of gaming on eve from roughly 7 pounds every 30 days to between ú8.50-ú9 every 30 days.
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Uryene
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.27 03:46:00 -
[705]
How much of a pulse in revenue is CCP likely to get based on scaring a good portion of their player base into buying a year or twos worth of 90d GTCs before the price goes up?
Interesting psy-op opportunity.
Of course, that could backfire as a lot of people pay their account ahead considerably and then don't buy ANYTHING for quite some time...
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.27 03:53:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Uryene Of course, that could backfire as a lot of people pay their account ahead considerably and then don't buy ANYTHING for quite some time...
Probably gives CCP more money in the long run. They get the sudden surge of income now, stick it in their bank/investments and earn interest off of it. Depending on the rate of return a smaller lump sum now is better than a larger sum paid over time.
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Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:05:00 -
[707]
I'm not sure I can justify paying more for a game I consider pretty much broken...
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Nikolae Varius
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:28:00 -
[708]
You know what bugs me? That CCP has to introduce the 60 day GTC to try to veil a price increase. I wish they just came out and said: Yep, dollar blows ass. So gonna raise sum prices for all that beer we drink. And respectively increased the 30, 60 and 90 day GTC prices. Instead of OOO LOOKIE! NEW GTCs! But then you cant blame em. Blatantly increasing the price would make ccp look like money hoggers. And yes. This is less blatant.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:56:00 -
[709]
Originally by: Snake Tanuki So I really understand if some people prefer to buy their gametime abroad. Why should only big companies benefit from globalization? Everytime the little man could benefit from worldwide trade. it's illegal. Companies build there hardware in china for half the cost, but I have to pay full price so the bosses can get richer and spend time with more expensive callgirls? Sure.
That is capitalism and is the GOOD THING (TM). Just ask any economy pleeb. It is all for your best. That is why your nike sneekers cost 100€ but manufacturing costs are 1€. Than you can feel that you helped the poor guy who made it (or at least the fat rich exec if we are staying in the RL).
Anyway I just don't see why they can't have same price everywhere. So what if few US peeps get ****ed at it. We are already ****ed at them so it would just make it 1:1 :)
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Tivookz
IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:38:00 -
[710]
I have 4 accounts thanks to the fact that I can buy gtc's priced in USD since I can save some money doing that.
However, if this new price change sets in motion I doubt that I will be able to keep them all running.
CCP, please reconsider.
Tiv
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deepb
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Posted - 2008.05.27 09:05:00 -
[711]
Whew, I was afraid they were going to tell us they were raising prices.. Hooray for simplicity! Hooray for CCP!
^^^ this is how CCP envisioned our reaction. :) ^^^
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Seamus Drummer
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Posted - 2008.05.27 09:28:00 -
[712]
Originally by: Zephyrante
Im an european player, all my corp mates are and all are buying in dolars because you pay less that way so no, smart europeans that where buying GTCs in Dolars arent happy.
Uuh, what's so smart in weakening your own economy?
Besides that, from what I've read, I'm on the other side of the "whine scale". I, too, pay my accounts with GTCs. But contraire to kost other here, I prefer the 180 days GTC.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.27 11:49:00 -
[713]
still no responce from ccp? shame on them. people rely on 30 and 90 day time codes. even at a high price people still want them
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Kyax
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Posted - 2008.05.27 12:38:00 -
[714]
Due to exchange rate changes since eve went live CCP must realise that people will buy a GTC in which ever currency is cheapest. They offer prices in local currencies but people circumvent them easily. It is obviously an excuse to re fix exchange rates as I bet most of CCPs bills are in euros and its income in USD.
CCP just tell the truth. Dont treat people like idiots.
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Locii
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Posted - 2008.05.27 12:46:00 -
[715]
wouldnt the bills come in thier own currency and now that is going down the pan they will be making even greater margins from the euro customers
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Oghma Grianainech
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
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Posted - 2008.05.27 16:10:00 -
[716]
Edited by: Oghma Grianainech on 27/05/2008 16:11:46 Dear CCP,
Congrats on yet anther sucking and epic fail decision, I was just wondering how many devs, management, PR professionals and whatnots did you lads have a discussion with about such a obsurb plan ? Maybe 1 guy just played scrissor, paper, stone with himself and decided the course of action. 60days only being the mininal choice of payment .... I quit, I am sure many like myself budget what we pay for per month and this is just ****ing stupid and bolloks. Thank you for proving yet again we the consumers are just ****ing ******s.
Not to mention we who do not live in the bloomy US already pay almost 40% more then anyone. MM actually come to think of it, that does not comply with fair trade or any US or EU standards.....
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.27 17:47:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Seamus Drummer
Originally by: Zephyrante
Im an european player, all my corp mates are and all are buying in dolars because you pay less that way so no, smart europeans that where buying GTCs in Dolars arent happy.
Uuh, what's so smart in weakening your own economy?
Besides that, from what I've read, I'm on the other side of the "whine scale". I, too, pay my accounts with GTCs. But contraire to kost other here, I prefer the 180 days GTC.
We feel sorry for US and want to help it's people by helping it's economy?
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Gho Higyidr
Black Serpent Technologies Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:19:00 -
[718]
How does this affect paying with a credit card? Can I still choose to pay per month?? Eliminating the 30/90 day GTC's is a bad move. It just sound slike you are trying to stifle and cripple the ECT trade market in game for isk.
I forsee a large drop in your player base (mostly from alts) if this goes into affect.. and the interest in this game is going to fall due to it being less cost efficient. I know I don't want to pay 5 bucks more a month for a game. I'd rather go play something else.
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.27 19:25:00 -
[719]
asked why living in england i have to pay in euros, this is teh responce.
'Unfortunately we are obligated to charged our European customers in Euros.'
lie's please provide the details on the law that says uk based customers have to pay in euro..
fed up with lie's from you ccp. come out and say the truth. we charge you in euros cos we end up with more cash in our pocket
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Wrathamon Starfury
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.27 19:43:00 -
[720]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Donald Truman
Originally by: Digital Anarchist If you just want to raise prices, do so openly.
This. I find it quite off-putting to see CCP portraying this in terms of "we're just simplifying things and getting in line with industry standards", with zero acknowledgment that this constitutes a subscription fee increase.
Unless raising prices without saying that's what you're doing is the "industry standard" they're talking about.
From CCP's point of view, this may not consitute a price rise. They don't work in dollars. They may in fact just be ending what has come to constitute a huge discount to US customers.
AFAIK, I'm still paying 15 Euros per month as a subscriber. For a long time, US players were paying considerably less than me. Now that the subsidised dollar price has been equalised, why the outrage?
You do know that the US players make up over 60% of the paying player base right?
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.27 20:04:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Wrathamon Starfury
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Donald Truman
Originally by: Digital Anarchist If you just want to raise prices, do so openly.
This. I find it quite off-putting to see CCP portraying this in terms of "we're just simplifying things and getting in line with industry standards", with zero acknowledgment that this constitutes a subscription fee increase.
Unless raising prices without saying that's what you're doing is the "industry standard" they're talking about.
From CCP's point of view, this may not consitute a price rise. They don't work in dollars. They may in fact just be ending what has come to constitute a huge discount to US customers.
AFAIK, I'm still paying 15 Euros per month as a subscriber. For a long time, US players were paying considerably less than me. Now that the subsidised dollar price has been equalised, why the outrage?
You do know that the US players make up over 60% of the paying player base right?
60% are you having a laugh mate?
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Delphi Disra
Dawn of Fire Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.05.28 05:38:00 -
[722]
this is bad buisness ccp :(
/signed
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Qwyp
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Posted - 2008.05.28 07:20:00 -
[723]
Please keep the 30 and 90 day gtc options as well. I can understand if the price increase is needed, but the convenience of having 30 and 90 day options is so nice. I myself use the 30 day gtc's using isk since at the moment thats about the only way I can pay for the moment.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.28 07:34:00 -
[724]
Originally by: Wrathamon Starfury You do know that the US players make up over 60% of the paying player base right?
You <expleteve deleted> lying <expletive deleted> misinformation-spreading <expletieve deleted> no-good <bleepitybleep> !
Country% of subscribers United States37.06% United Kingdom13,92% Germany8,05% Russia5,54% Canada4.84% Australia 3.04% Netherlands2,30% Sweden2,28% Denmark2,24% Poland0,84% France2,47% Finland1,05% Norway1,43% Hungary0,41% Ukraine0,90% Austria0,81% Belgium0,75% Romania0,67% Brazil0,31% Spain0,59% Others 10,50%
There. Freaking 37%.
1|2|3|4|5 |
h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.28 07:50:00 -
[725]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Wrathamon Starfury You do know that the US players make up over 60% of the paying player base right?
You <expleteve deleted> lying <expletive deleted> misinformation-spreading <expletieve deleted> no-good <bleepitybleep> !
Country% of subscribers United States37.06% United Kingdom13,92% Germany8,05% Russia5,54% Canada4.84% Australia 3.04% Netherlands2,30% Sweden2,28% Denmark2,24% Poland0,84% France2,47% Finland1,05% Norway1,43% Hungary0,41% Ukraine0,90% Austria0,81% Belgium0,75% Romania0,67% Brazil0,31% Spain0,59% Others 10,50%
There. Freaking 37%.
being part of teh 13.9% of uk subscribers, our fees have gone up 18% in the past 10 months. we now pay over 50% more than us players for the same year (131.40 euros is ú105, $131.40 is ú67) let us pay in our own currencey, like you let the us players as this will stop currency fluxations for us.
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xena zena
Catalyst Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.28 09:55:00 -
[726]
We need more info from ccp on this!
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Lo3d3R
MAFIA
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Posted - 2008.05.28 10:54:00 -
[727]
35% price increase via some vague mumbling acting like its no bigdeal post my foot!!!!!! ___________________
Sexy Time: |
Hasak Rain
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Posted - 2008.05.28 11:41:00 -
[728]
Originally by: Nikolae Varius You know what bugs me? That CCP has to introduce the 60 day GTC to try to veil a price increase. I wish they just came out and said: Yep, dollar blows ass. So gonna raise sum prices for all that beer we drink. And respectively increased the 30, 60 and 90 day GTC prices. Instead of OOO LOOKIE! NEW GTCs! But then you cant blame em. Blatantly increasing the price would make ccp look like money hoggers. And yes. This is less blatant.
I am not a CCP Fanboy by any means and I don't agree with this move either.
However, in all honesty, if they had come out and said "Hello..due top the weak dollar in the US, we are raising prices on our GTCs" the whine thread would be just as long if not longer than this one.
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DrefsabZN
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Posted - 2008.05.28 12:25:00 -
[729]
The main points seam to be people are happy paying more money but they are very unhappy with less options for GTC and being blatantly lied to by CCP saying they are doing it for x reason but they clearly are not. I bet resellers are mighty upset as well at this.
It would be nice to see CCP actually respond to this given the fact they have upset a large number of their customers their total silence on the issue just comes across as if they don't care about the customer base.
As for the issues of FW and ambulation, FW im looking forward to (it will add something for those not in 0.0 mega corps or have hundreds of people to play with), but ambulation is something that really isn't wanted, sure if you can do it without an effort go for it but it seams its taking some serious dev time.
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Xavier Linx
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Posted - 2008.05.28 14:04:00 -
[730]
Originally by: DrefsabZN The main points seam to be people are happy paying more money but they are very unhappy with less options for GTC and being blatantly lied to by CCP saying they are doing it for x reason but they clearly are not. I bet resellers are mighty upset as well at this.
Agreed
Originally by: DrefsabZN It would be nice to see CCP actually respond to this given the fact they have upset a large number of their customers their total silence on the issue just comes across as if they don't care about the customer base.
Not really true. The answer from ccp can be found here. Even though I admin that it's not many answers in there... |
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.28 14:32:00 -
[731]
Originally by: CCP RyanD [ Although our pricing does not mirror the marketshare leader at this time, it does reflect the internal assumptions we are basing our business plan on, and our price is something we are comfortable with at this time.
well we all know what assumtions are dont we? the mother of all fxxx up's
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ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:24:00 -
[732]
This belongs back on page 1
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StinkFinger
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:09:00 -
[733]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe This belongs back on page 1
^^
Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
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Smantha Dering
Syntek Technology
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Posted - 2008.05.28 20:26:00 -
[734]
I'm not goint to quit, but code sellers won't be getting my isk anymore from me or my alts.
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Lyra Sechrin
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Posted - 2008.05.29 00:23:00 -
[735]
bump for the devs who can't be assed to type.
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raeky
freelancers inc Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.05.29 04:21:00 -
[736]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe This belongs back on page 1
QFT http://raeky.com/ |
h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.29 07:20:00 -
[737]
so no ccp reply to can we have 30's and 90 day time codes back??
shame dont think its dropping from page 1 anytime soon
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.29 13:09:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Una D on 29/05/2008 13:10:59 Oh I just found out that even by using pay by cash you get stuck with paying in €... Very nice. Now I need to use a proxy to pay decen prices. I really do think that it's time to send a mail to the EC. I'm sure they will be very interested in the differing prices (after all if they were about to gank apple and iTunes why not CCP).
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Alenara
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Posted - 2008.05.29 17:39:00 -
[739]
taking away our precious "i wanna just play 30 days and insert next long skill" and our "bang boom bang, 90 days full of pvp" gtcs just sux!
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DrefsabZN
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Posted - 2008.05.29 19:31:00 -
[740]
I missed CCP RyanD's responses. However could I please ask Mr RyanD, if you prefer people to use the direct billing method do you have any plans to actually fix the direct billing system for people in the UK.
If your unsure what I mean, Im referring to the fact your direct billing system does not allow for billing of the most common UK debit card types. Meaning people who don't want to pay on their credit card like me, or people who don't have credit card but do have the main UK debit card types can't use direct billing.
almost 15% of your player base are from the uk, the vast bulk of these players will have a Switch/Solo/Maestro card. Id gladly pay using these methods, GTC's were my only other option as I don't want to use my Mastercard and I don't want to use a never heard of before service like paybycash.
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:38:00 -
[741]
Originally by: Lyra Sechrin bump for the devs who can't be assed to type.
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Morphisat
Rakeriku Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.05.30 09:32:00 -
[742]
Originally by: Lyra Sechrin bump for the devs who can't be assed to type.
What do you expect them to type ?
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CCP RyanD
C C P
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Posted - 2008.05.30 09:57:00 -
[743]
Originally by: DrefsabZN do you have any plans to actually fix the direct billing system for people in the UK.
Yes. This is a more complex problem than it may appear due to some taxation issues (CCP has a UK office). I know that we are committed to supporting the primary payment methods in our major markets, and the UK is no exception. I don't have a timeline for this, but I am certain it is given a fairly high priority.
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.30 10:42:00 -
[744]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Originally by: DrefsabZN do you have any plans to actually fix the direct billing system for people in the UK.
Yes. This is a more complex problem than it may appear due to some taxation issues (CCP has a UK office). I know that we are committed to supporting the primary payment methods in our major markets, and the UK is no exception. I don't have a timeline for this, but I am certain it is given a fairly high priority.
does this mean that we can pay teh ccp uk office in pounds and not have the issue we are having at the moment with the euro inflation?. uk yearly sub cost has risen 18% in the last 10 months
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RedLion
Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:02:00 -
[745]
Actually it's the pound which inflates :P (and it's not only relative, it is actually the pound going down).
Thus english people getting less for their quids, but in the end every monthly subscription should be matched up against euro.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
DrefsabZN
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:19:00 -
[746]
Originally by: CCP RyanD
Yes. This is a more complex problem than it may appear due to some taxation issues (CCP has a UK office). I know that we are committed to supporting the primary payment methods in our major markets, and the UK is no exception. I don't have a timeline for this, but I am certain it is given a fairly high priority.
This is great news then for me (and im sure many other's). I always found it strange that payment with cards like visa debit were available but the other methods were not available. Though I certainly don't know the complexity of the rules and regulations such things. I hope we see this soon as it will then remove my need for GTC's as a method of paying for my two accounts :)
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:23:00 -
[747]
Originally by: RedLion Actually it's the pound which inflates :P (and it's not only relative, it is actually the pound going down).
Thus english people getting less for their quids, but in the end every monthly subscription should be matched up against euro.
the pound has held steady against teh US$. but as teh euro has become stronger it has inflated against both. i do agree that if we are being made to pay in euros everyone should also be made to pay in euros. instead of being given over a 50% discount
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.05.30 11:29:00 -
[748]
Originally by: RedLion Actually it's the pound which inflates :P (and it's not only relative, it is actually the pound going down).
Thus english people getting less for their quids, but in the end every monthly subscription should be matched up against euro.
But than it should be same for everyone. Pick a currency and stick with it. Sure the EU peeps will have to pay VAT but that is our own problem and a lot smaller than 50% higher prices in US$
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Mael Duakal
Minds Of Space Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:10:00 -
[749]
I think that CCP hopes that this will die off... but i would really like to know why it is necessary to kill the 30 day GTC. And no, i don't particulary care for the price rice, but taking away the flexibility is ****ing me off.
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iloni atoriandra
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 16:34:00 -
[750]
Well its nice to know that after 5 years of being live they are actually looking at a way for UK players to pay using their debit cards.
And no your not obligated to charge all European players in Euros thats a lie and anyone who has any clue about banking, economics, contract law etc etc can tell you that so dont assume everyone is an idiot.
|
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Shereza
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 19:17:00 -
[751]
It'd be nice if CCP really did support 100% direct billing.
I mean I'd love to use my US-based savings account to pay the $15/account/month subscription fee so that if my, exceedingly tight and fixed, income doesn't support me paying for a month I'm not up the proverbial creek without a paddle because I just paid for 2 months per account.
As it stands when 30 day GTCs go I'll be forced to either spend half a day or more to get a gift card and end up spending about $99.20/2 month period on that for the gift cards, transportation, and card fees, to pay an estimated $35/card/2 month period for a total of $105/60 days (unless CCP gives a massive bulk discount to reduce GTC prices to $30/card or less), or use PayByCash and pay $18.19/$15 subscription fee for a grand total of $109.14 every 2 months.
This really wouldn't be so bad if I could pay via direct-debit but even when the option was available it was only available to a few European countries. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Uncle Mo
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.05.30 20:19:00 -
[752]
We want more payment choices, not less
--------------------------------------------- Official US ambassador to the UK.
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Djan Anaplian
KAOS CORP RELLIK ALUCARD Slammer's Republic
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 10:44:00 -
[753]
Bump, this has to be noticed.
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Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 16:50:00 -
[754]
Edited by: Rorin Cutter on 31/05/2008 16:50:10 anyone even noticed that ccp has not answered this issue? they listen to every little "nerf this" topic, but total silence on this issue. http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s72/rorincutter/Cutter-Drew.jpg |
Ivan Kinsikor
Void Engineers
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 17:16:00 -
[755]
Quote:
Dear CCP,
As a long time customer who buys massive amounts of isk via GTCs in Eve Online, I am both frustrated and disappointed that this decision has come down against the player base. I rather enjoy the flexibility of reselling a 30-day code or a 90-day code when I wish to increase the amount of isk I can buy.
Removing both 30 and 90 day options serves to limit player choice and force our decisions. I believe I speak for a fair number of players when I say this: stripping that little bit of control over how easy it is to buy isk.
I believe that simply introducing the 60 day option along with retaining the 30 and 90 day options will not only increase customer choice but may in fact drive higher traffic and sales to my wallet. As players are given more control and choice over their gaming experience, the amount of capital ships I can purchase grow exponentially.
Please seriously re-consider the economic and demographic impact of removing the 30 day and 90 day options. I am one player that sells the most 30 day increments, and to decide where I sell, when I sell, and how much I fail at Eve.
A concerned noob voting with his currency, - JW
---------------------------------------- *****es don't know 'bout my nano'd Titan ---------------------------------------- |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 17:34:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Rorin Cutter Edited by: Rorin Cutter on 31/05/2008 16:50:10 anyone even noticed that ccp has not answered this issue? they listen to every little "nerf this" topic, but total silence on this issue.
See page 18 tbfh.
Golly! You mean nobody reads the whole threadnaught? Who'da thunk it? ___________________________________________
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h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 17:40:00 -
[757]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Rorin Cutter Edited by: Rorin Cutter on 31/05/2008 16:50:10 anyone even noticed that ccp has not answered this issue? they listen to every little "nerf this" topic, but total silence on this issue.
See page 18 tbfh.
Golly! You mean nobody reads the whole threadnaught? Who'da thunk it?
not so much a responce to why ccp cant sell 30 and 90day time codes even at teh higher value. the responce was more a 'we are ccp, you are the customer. know your place'
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Mael Duakal
Minds Of Space Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 05:59:00 -
[758]
Originally by: h zebra
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Rorin Cutter Edited by: Rorin Cutter on 31/05/2008 16:50:10 anyone even noticed that ccp has not answered this issue? they listen to every little "nerf this" topic, but total silence on this issue.
See page 18 tbfh.
Golly! You mean nobody reads the whole threadnaught? Who'da thunk it?
not so much a responce to why ccp cant sell 30 and 90day time codes even at teh higher value. the responce was more a 'we are ccp, you are the customer. know your place'
QFT
The CCP answers in this thread sucks big time!
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Ryan Scouse'UK
omen.
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 07:45:00 -
[759]
Hmm what about people with 3 accounts .. Guess il sell off my 3rd account now then eh eh ...
no EVE related content in signature. ~Weatherman |
MonkeyGod
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 15:26:00 -
[760]
I don't know if this has already been answered in this (very long) thread but if we already have some unused 90 day GTC's will they remain valid to use after the removal of 90 day gtc's?
|
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Heroldyn
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 15:34:00 -
[761]
Originally by: MonkeyGod I don't know if this has already been answered in this (very long) thread but if we already have some unused 90 day GTC's will they remain valid to use after the removal of 90 day gtc's?
yes, they will remain valid.
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Yuleth Gix
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 16:25:00 -
[762]
I always liked how we could use 30d for when we were a little poor and 90d when we had the extra cash.
What purpose does getting rid of that and only having 60d give?
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:12:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Yuleth Gix I always liked how we could use 30d for when we were a little poor and 90d when we had the extra cash.
What purpose does getting rid of that and only having 60d give?
Easier to trick the player playing your excel in space game. (I know it doesn't make any sence to any of us but CCP thinks that higly of their player that they are sure it will make us miss the price rise ;) )
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She Storm
Founder's of the Dominion The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.02 20:20:00 -
[764]
Quote: So to reiterate: If you wish to buy 30 days of play for EVE, you can do it with us directly for the listed price of $14.95/E14.95, and you don't need to buy a Time Code to do that. We expect the number of people who are unable to use this method of payment to be negligible, and to become smaller regularly as we enable more and more payment options.
What about those of us who buy the GTC with isk ... where does this put us?
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Gosh Krux
Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:33:00 -
[765]
I can't believe this thread is still going... Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Rarkal
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:34:00 -
[766]
Please bring back 30 day time codes
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Pardack
Blue. Blue Federation
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:44:00 -
[767]
Edited by: Pardack on 02/06/2008 20:45:09
Originally by: She Storm What about those of us who buy the GTC with isk ... where does this put us?
60-day cards will cost approx the same as 90-day cards do now.
Taking prices from Shattered Crystal (as of June 2nd)
90-Day GTC = $38.85 60-Day GTC = $34.99
So you'll end up paying a few mil less ISK than you are now but at the same time you're also getting 30 FEWER days for the same price.
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Sal Alo
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.02 21:09:00 -
[768]
Keep 30 days and 90 days GTC. This is an order!
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Lo3d3R
MAFIA Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 21:31:00 -
[769]
Say no to the 35% price increase!!! ___________________
Sexy Time: |
Ottman
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 22:02:00 -
[770]
well i can understand ccp needs cash, but the income loss depends not on us, the customers, it depends on the difference between two currencies, euro and us-dollar. it cant be that we, paying customers get punished by this gtc policy ccp want to force upon us ! and that for an mmog that is far from perfect, if they would really improve eve, not only the graphics, i can live with classic graphic very well, as long as game mechanics will improve the way its worth the more cash ccp wants from us ! you should think twice removing 30 and 90 day gtc and if thats right what i have read that you dont want to sell them to usa, i am really angry ! if you want to add the 60 day gtc its okay, but i will be forced to let my accounts run out if you force me to pay much more i can afford for it, the current situation allows me to run two accounts, if prices would raise much higher i would simply to stop play eve not buying any more gtc, other payment methods dont work proper, so sorry ccp i dont think i will be the only one that has to simply stop play eve. and no, no one can have my stuff if i stop play eve...
its sad that you loose cash ccp, but you have the crappy choice of loosing money or loosing much more money, its hard i know but its up to you ccp
MfG ottman
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Miss Artica
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 23:15:00 -
[771]
27 pages and no reply from ccp!?
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xena zena
freelancers inc Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 08:52:00 -
[772]
they've replied, but have chosen to not mark it as if they had.
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Kilhu Emmek
Redshift Industrial
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 14:00:00 -
[773]
Originally by: xena zena they've replied, but have chosen to not mark it as if they had.
Man, this happened on the "when did kieron get fired" thread, too.
WTF, CCP? Totally sketchy. --
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Yarrzorr
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 14:11:00 -
[774]
Down with the new price increase!! YARRR!!
OR I SHALL SMITE THEE.
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Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 14:47:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Veng3ance on 03/06/2008 14:48:51 So you guys are going to lower the price when our economy kicks back up?
Haha right. **** this change, you think any tightly squeezed American is going to be happy about another price hike.
Not to mention a HUGE chunk of GTC revenue comes from isk selling. You are just grabbing more money! There isn't even any overhead cost besides you printing out random time codes. Screw that ****.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 15:22:00 -
[776]
Originally by: xena zena they've replied, but have chosen to not mark it as if they had.
Bad form CCP.
/Hook
----------------------------
Originally by: CCP Subscription I'm sorry Sir your European I'll have to charge you 58% extra
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Becki
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 15:37:00 -
[777]
Well like many other said, i dont care or the Price increase. The $ sucks and it was fine to pay as Europeen in $ for my GTC. What ****es me of, is the "only" 60 Day GTC Thing, i Dont have alt accs, i am just using my main. However when i was short on mony, i bought a 30day card and was happy, when Money was plenty i bought a 90 Day GTC and enjoied.
Now when short on Money i maybe have to skip a month because the darn GTC doesnt fit my tight Plan in that month. That sucks, Sorry or all thoses well earning folks who dont care.
And right shame on CCP for no answear, not even a "its done live with it" or a "we are thinking about it"
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Fifth Horseman
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 16:21:00 -
[778]
I think CCP have played an absolute blinder!
I can't be the only person who plays 90 on, 30 off. So, when they kick me off for an extra month a year, I will be represent less lag. So then they increased the price to reflect the less time I spend in game, and then some.
So, they end up supplying me with less server access time, for a lot more money, and those who can afford to access the server will get less lag.
I bet the person who thought this up got paid several BMWs and yachts. It's a stroke of genius marketing that could only have come from a stable that has no competitors.
--- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
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Pinel
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 16:23:00 -
[779]
Keep the convenience of the 30, 60, and 90 day gtc options!
/begs
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CCP Wrangler
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 16:25:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: xena zena they've replied, but have chosen to not mark it as if they had.
Bad form CCP.
/Hook
I would very much have preferred to mark this thread to show that there are Dev posts in it, unfortunately the feature is broken but it is in the queue to be fixed.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
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Ethaet
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 16:58:00 -
[781]
Please reconsider this, many people are going to close one or more of their accounts due to cost so you lose out really. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Teclador
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 17:07:00 -
[782]
I still hope CCP will continue with the GTC as in the Past...
Otherwise CCP will unfortunatly loose customers...
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Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 17:28:00 -
[783]
Edited by: Doc Fury on 03/06/2008 17:34:48 Bottom line:
CCP has been spending money like drunken sailors on leave in Thailand. Giant built-in aquariums in their offices and flying a herd of geeks to Iceland costs even more money. When you are paying developers to work on 2 separate games but only one is bringing in subscription revenue this makes cash flow even tighter, so stealthfully upping the entrance fee for a specific category of player may seem to be a good knee jerk idea to mitigate the circumstances.
(claiming to not be like WOW and then using them as a model in the same paragraph is also very telling)
Will a lot of older players quit? Maybe, or just a lot of their alts will. Honestly, I don't know why CCP wants to drive more people to use their automatic monthly billing, when nary a week goes by without people complaining here that they were incorrectly billed, or CCPs billing system no longer works with their cards, and/or the system is just broken...again. If people just started doing chargebacks instead of waiting 1-2 weeks for billing petitions to get resolved, you might see CCP actually implement a reliable and dependable billing system.
CCP will never get my CC card information again, that much is certain for me. Buying/using GTCs used to be a good way to hedge against CCP *****ups that made the game temporarily "unplayable", but when their most reliable minimum subscription level available has more than doubled in cost, GTCs no longer serve their purpose for me.
It's so safe to play along, little soldiers in a row Falling in and out of love, with something sweet to throw away. I want something good to die for...To make it beautiful to live. |
Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 17:52:00 -
[784]
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 03/06/2008 17:52:46 If you think a product doesn't justify the price then don't buy the product.
No reason to go emo about it. Just leave, quietly.
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Pardack
Blue. Blue Federation
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 18:17:00 -
[785]
Originally by: Cpt Fina Edited by: Cpt Fina on 03/06/2008 17:52:46 If you think a product doesn't justify the price then don't buy the product.
No reason to go emo about it. Just leave, quietly.
Don't leave quietly.
Post here and let CCP know exactly why you're leaving and fill in the comments on the cancellation page as well.
So leave if you must (because you can't afford it, you don't like the lack of ETC/GTC options, you're protesting the changes, it's Tuesday, whatever) but don't do it quietly.
Let CCP know exactly why you're not going to pay them.
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Fitz VonHeise
The New Order.
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 20:43:00 -
[786]
I will be moving one of my alts into another group. Saving isk is a good thing.
Bring back 30 and 90 day GCT's or I'll think about doing another.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.04 01:11:00 -
[787]
Back to page 1, I don't want to pay for the time I'm not playing. Please leave option for 30/90 GTC. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Fifth Horseman
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 09:58:00 -
[788]
I'm a huge fan of the "Well blizzard were doing it..." line. That kind of tells you a lot of what you need to know. Does WoW have Rank btw?
--- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
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Kilhu Emmek
Redshift Industrial
|
Posted - 2008.06.04 18:21:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Doc Fury Giant built-in aquariums in their offices and flying a herd of geeks to Iceland costs even more money. When you are paying developers to work on 2 separate games but only one is bringing in subscription revenue this makes the need for an increased and somewhat predictable cash flow even more important. Stealthfully upping the monthly fee for a specific category of player probably seemed to be a good knee jerk idea to mitigate the present circumstances.
Wow, didn't know about the giant aquarium, but the timing with "... and we'll fly you all to Iceland!" was really bad. It's just a bit amazing that they apparently think we can't connect the dots. Let's see, new MMO in development (cash sink? more like cash toilet), CSM plane tickets to buy (with ever-increasing fuel costs), Iceland economy possibly in worse shape than the US economy (google it) and a price increase "cleverly" hidden behind some nonsense about "industry standards" ... yeah, I'll buy that one. Put a shuttle up on contract and tell me it's a Titan, next. --
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h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 11:56:00 -
[790]
what i really would liek to know, ccp people. can we have 30 and 90 day gtc's back at teh higher price or are you sticking to your 'industry standards' bull?
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Mina Morticia
|
Posted - 2008.06.05 12:09:00 -
[791]
bump
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h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.06.06 11:25:00 -
[792]
Originally by: h zebra what i really would liek to know, ccp people. can we have 30 and 90 day gtc's back at teh higher price or are you sticking to your 'industry standards' bull?
i would still like a answer... yes we will keep them or no we wont, will do
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h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 11:22:00 -
[793]
i really would liek to know if ccp are going to keep 30 and 90 day time codes. in assemby hall, a petition has had over 500 agreements to keep these time codes. thsi post has had lot of people also agreeing that these forms of gtc should be kept.
so are you still stciking to your plan of only 60 day gtc's?
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 11:49:00 -
[794]
I support this change wholeheartedly.
If it serves to reduce the amount of alt accounts, all the better.
_______________________________ In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Leam Lakaud
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:32:00 -
[795]
Originally by: Ilvan I support this change wholeheartedly.
If it serves to reduce the amount of alt accounts, all the better.
Forgot your brain, didn't you?
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Ilvan
Post with your Brain
|
Posted - 2008.06.09 12:42:00 -
[796]
Originally by: Leam Lakaud
Originally by: Ilvan I support this change wholeheartedly.
If it serves to reduce the amount of alt accounts, all the better.
Forgot your brain, didn't you?
Your tears are like wine.
_______________________________ In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only lag |
Fastercart
Ihatalo Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 17:57:00 -
[797]
It's official
Quote: eve store: gametime cards (gtc) reported by CCP Wrangler | 2008.06.16 17:43:22 | NEW The 50 day and 100 day Gametime cards (GTC) has been removed from the EVE Store. These cards will be replaced by the new 60 day GTC's which will be added to the store this Wednesday, 18 June. Until then it will not be possible to order GTCs from the EVE Store.
__ Rorqual AKA Mega Maid
Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow. |
Xparky
Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 18:35:00 -
[798]
That's 30 mil ISK added per month ... 1 mil isk per day ... kill 3 NPC battleships and you're back on track ? Wtf is all this fuss about. . |
Rorin Cutter
KNIGHTS OF RYCHE
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 20:09:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Fastercart It's official
Quote: eve store: gametime cards (gtc) reported by CCP Wrangler | 2008.06.16 17:43:22 | NEW The 50 day and 100 day Gametime cards (GTC) has been removed from the EVE Store. These cards will be replaced by the new 60 day GTC's which will be added to the store this Wednesday, 18 June. Until then it will not be possible to order GTCs from the EVE Store.
So 30 day gtc's will still be sold or not? I read this as 50 and 100 days are going away. Anyone else just a bit confused? |
Pardack
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 20:40:00 -
[800]
60 Days is the only option for ETC/GTC now.
You can pay for 30 days at a time using the normal subscription methods (Credit Card, Debit, etc).
|
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Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 20:52:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Pardack 60 Days is the only option for ETC/GTC now.
You can pay for 30 days at a time using the normal subscription methods (Credit Card, Debit, etc) if you can get it to work reliably.
Fixed that for you..
It's so safe to play along, little soldiers in a row Falling in and out of love, with something sweet to throw away. I want something good to DIE for...to make it beautiful to live. |
Messerschmitt facility
Shinra Shinra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.16 21:27:00 -
[802]
All the third party ETC sellers still sell 30 and 90 days. When are those gonna get removed? _________________________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
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Racona
|
Posted - 2008.06.22 21:15:00 -
[803]
Originally by: Messerschmitt facility All the third party ETC sellers still sell 30 and 90 days. When are those gonna get removed?
when they run out of their existing stock they bought... shouldn't take long.
and page 18, come on!
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Unbowed Ash
Ad Astra Vexillum
|
Posted - 2008.06.22 22:14:00 -
[804]
Its the price of 60 day that ****es me off - 90 days were and gave great value for $ invested. real sad the went away ...
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Tijai Betula
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 11:55:00 -
[805]
Edited by: Tijai Betula on 23/06/2008 11:55:51 Well looking back thro the posts looks to me like the majority of the community was set against this change. Thanks for listening CCP.
I can see alot of alts disappearing from the game over the next few months - hey... they solved their lag problem!!
So looks like the price hike (which it is however you look at it) will subsidise for all those missing alts.
Well I have 2 regularly paid for accounts, but not sure if I can afford that now (family mortgage etc.) so there is a possibility there of halving my financial input to the CCP coffers. Shame. I may have to use the alts 2 months on 1 month off but I'm sure there is some way around this cost hike, just a shame it will effect mine, ond probably many others gameplay and enjoyment of the game.
Wonder how many others are in the same situation?
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Jolliejoe
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 12:07:00 -
[806]
I got an e-mail from shatteredcrystal and just noticed the price for these 60 days..
So basically CCP decideded to scam us out of 30 days and ask the same price as the 90 day cards..
Wow, nice going CCP... looks like I'll be cancelling at least 1 account. Wait, ohh... this was your GREAT plan to reduce the lag in jita... get rid of people... Well you shall have what you want.
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Tortun Nahme
Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 13:55:00 -
[807]
the emorage, its delicious, all the whiners are slashing their alt-wrists
Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Brugar
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 14:13:00 -
[808]
824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
/sigh
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Goremageddon Box
Soldiers Of Mercy
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 14:16:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Brugar 824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
/sigh
yummy.
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Ghost Goat
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 14:23:00 -
[810]
Originally by: Brugar 824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
/sigh
tbh i doubt the dev's got any weight ,when it comes to this kind of matters .
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Vistrix Ferocia
Libertarian Dynamics inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 14:27:00 -
[811]
The price of the 60 day cards are ridiculous.
I bought a 90 day card last week. Wish I bought more now.
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RaTTuS
BIG
|
Posted - 2008.06.23 14:30:00 -
[812]
why do you need a dev response ?
?? ccp PrismX - yes this will akke the Db work better -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve,
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Jolliejoe
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 11:12:00 -
[813]
I know CCP doesn't do zip to fix the jita problem but with this GTC crap they will indirectly solve it since the amount of accounts will decline and people will think twice before paying the same amount of isk but only now get 60 days for it instead of 90 days.
I'm not surprised CCP doesn't respond in this thread as there is nothing they can say other than it will fil their pockets even more. I hope they realize their mistake once they see the decline in accounts.. Suckers.
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Tristel
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.24 11:22:00 -
[814]
Edited by: Tristel on 24/06/2008 11:23:09 My worry is that this will drive people away from GTC's and into the arms of the ISK sellers.
Personally, im going to stop selling GTC's now on my alt simply because its not worth it. For the price and the money it costs now id rather go rat in 0.0 for an hour a day or so.
Maybe you got what you wanted CCP.
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CCP Wrangler
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 11:40:00 -
[815]
Originally by: Brugar 824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
/sigh
If you read the whole thread you'll find our replies, the blue bar was broken for a while when those posts were made though.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
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h zebra
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Posted - 2008.06.24 11:59:00 -
[816]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Brugar 824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
/sigh
If you read the whole thread you'll find our replies, the blue bar was broken for a while when those posts were made though.
i understand that you have posted and your hand are firmly tied by your boss, so this question you may not be able to answer.....
can we have 30 and 90 day gtc's back at the higher(european) price please? if you can not answer it because of someone high up the food chain, can you tell us that
Zeb
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Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:17:00 -
[817]
Originally by: Brugar 824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
Unless those 824 replies are planning on canceling 1 or more accounts for real I doubt they give a flip.
Recently I've had all of my accounts active and training while not doing a whole lot on them. While training will not cease on any account I do believe I will go back to a 60 on/as many off as possible on long skills.
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Morphisat
Rakeriku Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:54:00 -
[818]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Brugar 824 Replies. 32,142 Reads. 0 Dev responses.
/sigh
If you read the whole thread you'll find our replies, the blue bar was broken for a while when those posts were made though.
Also what is a DEV to say about this ? It's a commercial decision, and an understandable one. CCP is a commercial enterprise after all !
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Notorius B
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:28:00 -
[819]
Originally by: Tristel Edited by: Tristel on 24/06/2008 11:23:09 My worry is that this will drive people away from GTC's and into the arms of the ISK sellers.
Personally, im going to stop selling GTC's now on my alt simply because its not worth it. For the price and the money it costs now id rather go rat in 0.0 for an hour a day or so.
Maybe you got what you wanted CCP.
signed.
no more gtc selling for me
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Recon Three
181st Legion The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.25 00:21:00 -
[820]
Gonna stop selling GTCs as well and go back to paying monthly with my debit card I guess.
Stupid move is stupid. :< __________
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Laciter
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Posted - 2008.06.25 01:43:00 -
[821]
I don't mind a slight price hike to address inflation, but please bring back 30 and 90 day cards, with slightly less cost for more time purchased at once. And don't give me the argument that CCP is "losing money" by selling GTC wholesale as opposed to people signing up with credit or debit cards directly off the site. The fact is most GTC users wouldn't play the game if their only option was credit and debit cards, resulting in less money for CCP.
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Laciter
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Posted - 2008.06.25 01:55:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Mac Maniac I am seriously considering closing my 2nd account and from what I am hearing from my corpmates; many of them as well. CCP you are heading in entirely the WRONG direction.
Yawn.
Don't worry, your threat to cancel your 'second' account has been noted and falls into a very low to non-existent likelihood of occurance. And if it were to happen, the revenue will quickly be replaced by a real dedicated player once power of two is offered once again.
Thank you CCP for starting to address real paying customers concerns of being able to play the game by 'culling' the free loaders into paying what is more appropriate for an on demand method of payment which is common everywhere else.
Yeah but most other MMO's allow you to play with several alts on a single account much more effectively, so you can experience more facets of the game. Only EVE essentially forces people to get second accounts to try something different without sacrificing the utility of your main character. If they really wants to "attune" themselves to "industry standards" they would allow you to train your alts simultaneously on one account.
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Wyverns of Dionysus Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 03:11:00 -
[823]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
... I am one player that prefers to game in 30 day increments, and to decide where I play, when I pay, and how much I pay...
Your not alone John, I also prefer 30 day blocks at a time.
Originally by: Halkin bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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Captain WuTang
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Posted - 2008.06.25 04:13:00 -
[824]
Well, the main problem for me is I'm trying to convince my two friends to play and they asked "how much is the sub fee?" Reasonable question, to which I could always reply "same as all the others". Now it's the most expensive game out and I have very little to justify it to them other than "it has space ships". "Can you get out and fight or explore?" "No, but it has space ships." "Are the graphics amazing?" "Well the space looks like space and the ships are cool. There's not much else to look at really." "oooh k, yeah I'll check it out" uh huh riiiight.
I like the game but it is going to be more difficult to convince others to play.
As far as the us dollars euro peso debate, I don't really give a ****. This game is more expensive than all the other games and I can't convince other people to play. That's what I care about.
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Wen Jaibao
Soul Ripper Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.25 04:23:00 -
[825]
Originally by: Captain WuTang As far as the us dollars euro peso debate, I don't really give a ****. This game is more expensive than all the other games and I can't convince other people to play. That's what I care about.
Pretty sure I pay 14.95 monthly. Just like WoWs fee. Just like SWGs fee. Just like AOCs fee. ETC ETC. Definately the most expensive game though! You know what, lets all go play runescape, because its free! So everyone must be rushing to play that steaming pile of goatse!
Sig fixed by Benco97 |
Captain WuTang
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.25 04:37:00 -
[826]
Edited by: Captain WuTang on 25/06/2008 04:38:57 Edited by: Captain WuTang on 25/06/2008 04:38:12 Hey your right. I just checked and if you pay by CC it's 14.95. So this whole thing is just about game cards?
Well, I appologize for my confusion. :)
I'm out.
Oh but Wen Jaibao, you still sound like a douche. :)
But damn you are handsome....
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Smacko Thug
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.25 04:38:00 -
[827]
Im just curious as to CCP's justification behind charging those of us who use GTC to pay for our accounts more than those who use Visa.
We both play the same game
We all know CCP has cared more about money than its customers for a very long time now
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Ryan Scouse'UK
omen. The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.06.25 06:42:00 -
[828]
Edited by: Ryan Scouse''UK on 25/06/2008 06:42:25 CCP at least give the option to pay by cash for EVE like Wow does, I rather go down to HMV & buy a EVE time code if I wanted to come back to the game etc rather then havin to go buy it online or use a credit card lark with hiden charges.
These 3 accounts really thinking about selling two,
Alt carrier gallente account 25sp Cal pve full spec 6m in missles co ops + support 20sp
& just usen my main perhaps no point metagaming this game any more.
At least I can enjoy more wasteful isk on my Main.
no EVE related content in signature. ~Weatherman |
Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:07:00 -
[829]
OK, so CCP is PUNISHING people in the US for using GTC and/or not having a CC to pay for their game time?
The math seems very straight forward to me. The old 90 day card worked out to 12.95 per month. The MOST expensive rate you can pay with a CC is 14.95 a month. But now, if you have no CC to use (for whatever reason) you are FORCED to pay 17.49 a month with the "new and improved" 60 day GTC.
The only thing I can say about this is that ALL of the people I know that use GTC to pay for their accounts are insanely angry over this, and as far as I know, planning to quit over it. (That amounts to about nine accounts for those who are counting.)
From a purely business standpoint this was a really stupid move because they just priced themselves out of the US MMO gamming market, as the standard here for almost every other MMO is 14.95-9 a month. So I honestly don't know what the devs were smoking getting off on saying they were keeping up with "industry standards." That statement by the devs is blatantly false. 17.29 a month is WAY above the US MMO monthly average price.
What I am even MORE worried about is that this is a prelude to a general price hike for ALL of the US players, the ones that use CCs included. If that is the case, I will be sad to say that there are other options besides Eve available now, and I WILL go explore them if a general price hike occurs. IMHO the game is BARELY worth what I pay to play it now.....
My advise: Better watch yourself CCP, nothing makes companies go out of business faster than poor technical implementation, poor customer service AND price hikes on top of the other two. I.E. You aren't as great, big, and wonderful as obviously you believe yourself to be CCP. Don't put yourself in a situation where you are going to learn that lesson the hard way.
My two isk.
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Jolliejoe
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Posted - 2008.06.25 13:22:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Sylthi OK, so CCP is PUNISHING people in the US for using GTC and/or not having a CC to pay for their game time?
The math seems very straight forward to me. The old 90 day card worked out to 12.95 per month. The MOST expensive rate you can pay with a CC is 14.95 a month. But now, if you have no CC to use (for whatever reason) you are FORCED to pay 17.49 a month with the "new and improved" 60 day GTC.
The only thing I can say about this is that ALL of the people I know that use GTC to pay for their accounts are insanely angry over this, and as far as I know, planning to quit over it. (That amounts to about nine accounts for those who are counting.)
From a purely business standpoint this was a really stupid move because they just priced themselves out of the US MMO gamming market, as the standard here for almost every other MMO is 14.95-9 a month. So I honestly don't know what the devs were smoking getting off on saying they were keeping up with "industry standards." That statement by the devs is blatantly false. 17.29 a month is WAY above the US MMO monthly average price.
What I am even MORE worried about is that this is a prelude to a general price hike for ALL of the US players, the ones that use CCs included. If that is the case, I will be sad to say that there are other options besides Eve available now, and I WILL go explore them if a general price hike occurs. IMHO the game is BARELY worth what I pay to play it now.....
My advise: Better watch yourself CCP, nothing makes companies go out of business faster than poor technical implementation, poor customer service AND price hikes on top of the other two. I.E. You aren't as great, big, and wonderful as obviously you believe yourself to be CCP. Don't put yourself in a situation where you are going to learn that lesson the hard way.
My two isk.
Not sure if you realize this since you seem to be only talking on behalf of US players, we here in europe already pay wayyyy more than you ever did... Might want to take that into consideration in your US only rant.
My Ç 0.01
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Reots
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Posted - 2008.06.25 14:17:00 -
[831]
Easy Predictions: Less options Less Alts Less revenue players who stay during the GTC 'change we can believe in' will be ahead in skill points More GTC options return, maybe $1-3 more Players return Revenue rebounds Jita will lag again
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Reots
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Posted - 2008.06.25 14:27:00 -
[832]
Now if they introduce $10 14 day GTCs then they'd have alot of happy players
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Draben Enforcer
The SMITE Brotherhood
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:27:00 -
[833]
After watching one of the videos that was on the front page recently again. I just dont understand why they would take away choices on the amount of days time cards offer. Start Watching this video at about 10:00 min in http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/31053 EVE Online Game Designer Matt Woodward talks about giving options to the playerbase and then we get the 30 and 90 day options along with the 50 and 100 day Time cards taken away. If you have to raise the price of these options so be it but don't have one of your game developers talking about how they want to give the player base more choices then turn right around and start offering less.
For every person that drops their second account because of this will have a large impact on your total income. Trying to fix things after you upset your player base is allot harder to fix than trying to keep them happy to start with. Raising the price of the choices we had would of been allot better idea. Most of my corp has at least 2 accounts some as high as 5. Given the only choice of putting 60 day cards on their secondary accounts most will not be spending the money to keep those accounts active now.
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Sylthi
Coreward Pan-Galactic
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Posted - 2008.06.26 07:49:00 -
[834]
Edited by: Sylthi on 26/06/2008 07:54:29
Originally by: Jolliejoe
Originally by: Sylthi OK, so CCP is PUNISHING people in the US for using GTC and/or not having a CC to pay for their game time?
Not sure if you realize this since you seem to be only talking on behalf of US players, we here in europe already pay wayyyy more than you ever did... Might want to take that into consideration in your US only rant.
My Ç 0.01
Uhm, so? No, I don't think I need to take that into consideration. What does prices in Europe have to do with my being miffed over the prices going up in the US? You say you pay more where you live than we do in the US. Again, so what? If you think you are paying too much, take it up with CCP. If you are upset about the VAT (if you have to deal with that) go bother the proper government officials or start a revolution (to get out from under unfair taxes) like we did. If you are tired of paying too much: quit the game. If you think there is nothing wrong with the amount you are paying to play Eve, and THAT is why you have no sympathy for the US players' rates going up, then I just plain feel sorry for you; because CCP is raping you and you have learned to like it.
The fact of the matter is that 17.49 a month is ABOVE what the average US gamer will pay for a month of an MMO. TONS of market research has been done by very reputable organizations that back that fact up. Google search it. I found 12 articles on the subject, without even trying that hard, that prove my point.
What I was trying to do with my post was warn CCP that if they are taking their overall prices in that direction, they were likely going to get a nasty surprise from the bulk of their US customer base. I feel strongly that main point of mine still stands.
That said, the bottom line on your comparing our monthly rates is: just because YOU choose to pay way too much for Eve doesn't mean that I have to. Or, that I have to be happy about the price of Eve in the US getting closer to what you pay; regardless of where that puts the USD in the grand scale of world currency strength.
Anyway, that was me ranting at a wall for all the people at CCP who are actually going to listen.
Ranting more at CCP than you mate. No personal harshness intended. Cheers.
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.06.26 11:12:00 -
[835]
I think one of the reasons for the increase is that the CCP infrastructure can't cope with a deluge of new players. How do you control this influx?. One way is to increase prices so players leave thus taking the pressure off the infrastructure. Makes sense really-you only have to look at how poor the game experience has been lately with lag & unrelated server crashes. The Eve experience is starting to suck & it can only get better by either massive investment or a reduction in numbers & I think CCP have initialy choose the cheaper route.
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Kirov VIII
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Posted - 2008.06.26 21:08:00 -
[836]
Edited by: Kirov VIII on 26/06/2008 21:14:28 CCP, you want to lost your players ? It's really the good solution. Crap addon, nerfl and never correct the ships nerfled. Finally, never balance correctly the races. A lot of players write good things on this forum but CCP don't read !!!
You can stop but no, you continue with the GTC, tomorrow you make what ? Increase the price of month fee and remove concord and put all security status to 0.0 ? Yes, you can win more money but only if the player continue to pay for this game. Congratulation, you have lost one player which stop to play at this (YOUR) game.
Yes continue CCP, it's good but FOR YOU players = money and lost players = lost money. Make a lots of errors have consequences !
How many OLD players have stop this game in the last 2 years ? And how many OLD players continue to play actually ? All of my old friends have already stop and it's my turn now.
EDIT : Yes, you reduce the cost of second account for publish the population of EvE (Increased with that) BUT 2-3 months after you stop the support of dual account on the same computer !!! You kill yourself your game ! And when you lost one player is two-three accounts which you lost in the same time !
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2008.06.26 22:14:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Kirov VIII EDIT : Yes, you reduce the cost of second account for publish the population of EvE (Increased with that) BUT 2-3 months after you stop the support of dual account on the same computer !!! You kill yourself your game ! And when you lost one player is two-three accounts which you lost in the same time !
What's this about? I'm quite happily running two accounts on the same computer.
Sure, you can't run a trial account at the same time as any other account, but that's just to prevent people making lots of disposable alts.
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Mordan Greylanis
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:32:00 -
[838]
I'd like to know why we can't have 30- and 90-day time code options, but subscribers can still choose to pay for varying time periods (and cost per day).
I'm an unemployed stay-at-home dad living in the US. I pay for multiple accounts using ISK because it's simply not in the budget to pay real money for a game when my family has other expenses (price of fuel and food anyone?) that are more important. I applaud CCP's policy to allow players to buy codes with ISK, because otherwise I would not be playing the game.
Frankly, I think EVE is lacking in a lot of areas, and I question a number of decisions made about the game content and mechanics, but the bottom line for me is this game gives me something to do with my brain when I get a break from changing diapers, etc.
Why can't we still have 30- and 90-day codes if the prices are raised appropriately to match the scale set by the new 60-day codes? Is that really such a problem, and more to the point, more of a problem than potentially losing customers?
This change makes me fear worse changes are yet to come, and the borderline lies spouted about industry standards and price increases only make it harder to believe anything CCP might say to try to convince us otherwise. |
Aneu Angellus
Revival.
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Posted - 2008.06.27 02:22:00 -
[839]
After playing this game since its inception i have to say, bad move CCP, very bad move. ________________
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Pinel
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.27 02:25:00 -
[840]
raise prices some if ya have to but please keep/bring back the 30/90 day options.
Convenience makes customers happy :)
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Yue Xiang
Caldari Onirvura Scientific
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Posted - 2008.06.28 11:15:00 -
[841]
im going to eventually pull my 3 accounts the way things are going, so is my friend.. =/ probably will be forced to quit eve |
Par'Gellen
Gallente Tres Hombres
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Posted - 2008.06.28 12:20:00 -
[842]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 28/06/2008 12:21:13 Removing 30 and 90 day GTCs is probably hands-down the single dumbest thing I've ever seen CCP do and I've been here for a long long time and seen them do some pretty amazingly dumb things...
Boo CCP! Just plain BOOO!! |
Laciter
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Posted - 2008.06.28 14:17:00 -
[843]
Originally by: Sylthi Edited by: Sylthi on 26/06/2008 07:54:29
Originally by: Jolliejoe
Originally by: Sylthi OK, so CCP is PUNISHING people in the US for using GTC and/or not having a CC to pay for their game time?
Not sure if you realize this since you seem to be only talking on behalf of US players, we here in europe already pay wayyyy more than you ever did... Might want to take that into consideration in your US only rant.
My Ç 0.01
Uhm, so? No, I don't think I need to take that into consideration. What does prices in Europe have to do with my being miffed over the prices going up in the US? You say you pay more where you live than we do in the US. Again, so what? If you think you are paying too much, take it up with CCP. If you are upset about the VAT (if you have to deal with that) go bother the proper government officials or start a revolution (to get out from under unfair taxes) like we did. If you are tired of paying too much: quit the game. If you think there is nothing wrong with the amount you are paying to play Eve, and THAT is why you have no sympathy for the US players' rates going up, then I just plain feel sorry for you; because CCP is raping you and you have learned to like it.
The fact of the matter is that 17.49 a month is ABOVE what the average US gamer will pay for a month of an MMO. TONS of market research has been done by very reputable organizations that back that fact up. Google search it. I found 12 articles on the subject, without even trying that hard, that prove my point.
What I was trying to do with my post was warn CCP that if they are taking their overall prices in that direction, they were likely going to get a nasty surprise from the bulk of their US customer base. I feel strongly that main point of mine still stands.
That said, the bottom line on your comparing our monthly rates is: just because YOU choose to pay way too much for Eve doesn't mean that I have to. Or, that I have to be happy about the price of Eve in the US getting closer to what you pay; regardless of where that puts the USD in the grand scale of world currency strength.
Anyway, that was me ranting at a wall for all the people at CCP who are actually going to listen.
Ranting more at CCP than you mate. No personal harshness intended. Cheers.
eh, I am betting most other MMO's will follow suit soon enough. It's just a fact of the declining value of the dollar and the resultant inflation. Gas prices and food prices are going up worldwide, no doubt employees are demanding more in every sector, resulting in great overhead, resulting in higher prices being passed on to consumers. The problem I see isn't with a $2.50 a month increase, its the fact that EVE designed their game to earn extra revenue and inflate their "subscriber" base by pushing people to get 2nd and 3rd accounts to experience other facets of the game efficiently. A lot of the suckers who fell for this scheme will start to wake up when they see how big their bills are, when they realize there are much fewer GTC for Isk trades available, and fewer will be roped into it, thus losing CCPs overall revenue siginificantly. |
astowv
Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.28 14:36:00 -
[844]
Edited by: astowv on 28/06/2008 14:36:48 Teh Dollar
----
--- CCP Navigator is watching me. It scares me ! |
Tobias Lee
Orb Union
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Posted - 2008.06.28 15:33:00 -
[845]
As a five year eve player currently using gtc i aint gonna whine about the price. what concerns me is the sinister bigger picture. Has ccp looked at the hardware and said well the technology is not there to run the game so lets price hike the gtc we wont lose money and we will cull the player base a little and hey presto less server demand. If the money is going to be used to improve the server then an announcement might b nice ;)
My second concern is that they have looked at the life cycle of an mmporpg and realised that eves over halfway or maybe even nearing the end of its cycle? so maybe they want to milk the cash cow alittle more while they can.
EVE is unique, really theres no other space online rpg that i know of atm that rivals it maybe ccp is worried the competion might release a new game?
and yeah tbh i stopping paying for one of my accounts after i wrote a pettion and got quite a rude response from the gm dealing with my pettion after making me wait nearly 30 days.
Hopefully ambulation will b in soon maybe with a secret load of new features we didnt foresee. |
Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.28 16:18:00 -
[846]
As a low income player who buys cards from the local Sci Fi book shop, this kinda sucks. Its already hard to justify the costs between rent and food and the like. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2008.07.04 16:16:00 -
[847]
if you were going to play this game for any significant amount of time you would be prepared to pay 20 gbp a month Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Titas Agor
TITANS OF PEACE
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Posted - 2008.07.04 19:42:00 -
[848]
This could potentially be a disarster for me... as a carebare player i dont make huge ammounts of isks like the major alliances do, the price of GTC has gone up to like 150-200% since this damn change... i cannot make over 400mil every 2 months, im not playing the game 24/7 and to be perfectly honnest, the "average" player wont be able to make that kinda isk either, i can tell ya that right now..
Getting rid of the options to pay monthly or for several months at a time is absolutely rediculas! When majority of every other MMO has at least! a 30day subscription fee... Taking away options limiting players is completely mind numbing descision even tho as a dev has posted previously about goverment changes, fraud and CC exploits, never ending changes they hav to make to the billing, well, im sorry to be mean, but so freakin what? so does every other company in the world, jus deal with it... Raising the monthly costs by 30-35% and the GTC are so much now, only alliance players can afford to by them, has really screwed a lot of ppl up not just me....
I stoped using a credit card to pay for eve after every single time they had to change something or "upgrade" their billing system, my credit card wouldn't be accepted and took them 6 weeks to fix my problem while my char was not training for 6 weeks... i got so tired of that i moved to using GTC now this has really screwed me up royaly...
Im only 1 player, but im gonna find it very difficult to play now, i love eve, loved it ever since i first saw it and played it, but im not gonna be able to play every month now because of this change... On a tight budget as it is irl anyway, paying monthly was my way of being able to play it so long as i had the money when i was using a CC which i can no longer do, my options and very limited now as will my playing time will be.....
an example, fellow eve mate is not alloud by his parents to use a CC or real money to pay for this game, he has to use in game isk in order to get timecards.... he will no longer be able to do this.....
bad freaking move CCP... and i wont be the only one that wont be paying or playing month to month now....
thanks a bunch.....
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Pardack
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.07.04 20:09:00 -
[849]
Time will tell.
If CCP's ETC/GTC numbers drop significantly, you'll hear a change of tune. "To satisfy user demand, we are re-introducing the 30 day gtc at XX.XX price."
The reason CCP doesn't want to do this is two-fold (or more).
1. Since they've raised prices overall on ETC/GTC, they would have to introduce a 30-day GTC that is in line with current pricing. This however will officially make them the most expensive MMO for 30 days of playtime for etc/gtcs. Not a great distinction to have in the MMO business.
2. Due to #1, CCP's options are limited. If they introduce a 30-day etc/gtc that's equivalent in price (or lower to keep in line with 'industry standards') to the 60-day etc/gtc, the 60-day etc/gtc becomes obsolete. So they'll have to re-do their entire etc/gtc pricing scheme, again. Something I'm sure CCP doesn't want to do again so soon.
Pricing issues are serious business. You can bet that if you see more etc/gtc options introduced or pricing changes in the next 6-12 months, it's due to a direct revenue loss on CCP's end from the recent changes (i.e. they shot themselves in the foot).
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Prometheus Exenthal
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2008.07.06 04:19:00 -
[850]
CCP has effectively cut my play time in half. Find something else to line your bloody wallets.
FRIGANK |
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Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.07.06 04:38:00 -
[851]
And now for a bit of positive outlook.
Since this change and the doubling in the price of GTCs I'm down to 1 account from 3. And I'm having 1337% more fun as a result, eve is no longer a second job for me.
Fewer alts, less metagaming, less crowded servers, smaller blobs - this is a GOOD thing for all involved. There would have to be a 50% reduction (or more) in GTC funded accounts before this change has a negative impact on the bottom line for our favorite MMO company.
So overall -- great change. At least two thumbs up.
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corElement
hirr
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Posted - 2008.07.06 06:47:00 -
[852]
bring 30 and 90 day gtc's back to what prices they were please. You cant do this ccp.
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Shraki
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Posted - 2008.07.13 13:26:00 -
[853]
that's economics for you? why do europeans have to pay 15Ç compared to 15$? because we can. (actually answer.. because its beneficial to not paying for expansions so shut up and dont whine about the money difference, we suck you europeans dry in order for the americans to pay less.)
if you do not want us to buy gtc's give us a fair price compared to the rest of the world, numbnutz.
life in belgium is already rediculous expensive compared to the rest of europe. no not because of tax, BECAUSE THEY CAN.
<insert explitive cussing here>
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Marconus Orion
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:37:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Mac Maniac I am seriously considering closing my 2nd account and from what I am hearing from my corpmates; many of them as well. CCP you are heading in entirely the WRONG direction.
Well, nice to see a positive impact because of this.
If you and your buddies are quiting because of this then I strongly support this move by CCP.
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Bak Vlok
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:45:00 -
[855]
Totally. Could we please have a few more ragequits by multiple accounts who have too much time, want to get around the teamplay or monopolize business. It's very delightful
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Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.15 06:22:00 -
[856]
Originally by: CCP RyanD Edited by: CCP RyanD on 23/05/2008 23:43:23
Originally by: Val Vympel
A professional and "sober" company spokesperson and PR expert(preferably at least 35 years of age) would IMO be a splendid addition to the CCP payroll.
Hi, I'll be 40 in October. Wrangler works for me. (And he doesn't write many of the news items that get posted, he just posts them. He didn't write this one, for example. You're taking shots at the wrong guy in this case.)
Normally I would not post on a thread like this but we're going into the weekend and I thought a little clarity might be useful.
.....
We prefer that our customers use our direct-bill services for a number of reasons. The most important is that using that system allows us to collect the full price of the subscriptions. Our Time Code systems use a reseller network, and they receive a discount from the suggested price of the Time Codes when they purchase them in bulk This discount is how they make a profit selling the codes to the public, but it means that Time Codes are a less profitable way for us to do business with our customers.
.....
Thanks for listening.
Can you explain one thing to me? I run (used to run) 7 accounts and used to pay with ISK for all of them, mostly by using 30 day GTCs. I could pay for no more than one with real money, but lately I am not keen on doing it, as this game still needs fixes on stuff that bugs me since couple of years. So how eventually paying you the subscription for 1 account each month with credit card (and hopefully debit card one day) is more profitable for you then paying for 7 accounts with ISK given to other ppl who actually bought those 7 GTCs? Even with the whatever discount you give to the GTC resellers it is at least 6 time more then what you are going to get from me now.
Now I am down to 2 accounts, I am almost 100% sure that when they expire I will not renew them. Which is exactly no revenue for you at all from me. And all this because of this ETC change.
Care to explain how this is more profitable for you?
From what I read on the forums there are way too much people like me so I am pretty sure in less then two months you will lose a lot of accounts and money.
I used to provide a lot of public services to the eve community, and they will be gone when I leave. This is going to upset a lot of people. I will point them to your financial planning department for reimbursement.
And please do get me started on the cost of expansions and adding new content. Whatever the cost is, this keeps you in business. No expansions and new content = no new players and old players leaving = CCP out of business. So the money spend on expansions (which CCP owners might see as loss for their pockets) ae actually an investment which guarantees that CCP will get more money in the future.
Thanks for listening.
Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site
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Born Slave
Minmatar Pisces Formidilosi
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Posted - 2008.07.15 06:27:00 -
[857]
Originally by: Blazing Fire
... I am almost 100% sure that when they expire I will not renew them.
Your stuff sir.. Ah, you know the rest
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Aurix Lexico
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.15 07:06:00 -
[858]
No, me, give your stuff to.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.07.15 07:19:00 -
[859]
Originally by: Blazing Fire
Now I am down to 2 accounts, I am almost 100% sure that when they expire I will not renew them. Which is exactly no revenue for you at all from me. And all this because of this ETC change.
If it was 'profitable' to run those 7 with 30d codes then switching to 60d ones is not significant price increase as higher end 30d ones were going for near 200 mil and 60d ones are going for approx 400 mil.
Now if you mean by running 7 of them with timecodes the regular buy code, train, set long skill & expire. Then on average you would have been active at once in 3 .. 4 accounts. Thats not exactly running 7 accounts you know. If you 'need' those accounts (or can make isk with them in any sigificant manner) then you can afford to run them with GTC's still, if not .. well .. 30d codes made character 'farming' too easy anyway.
I run my alts with clear understanding what amount of isk they cost me per month and from time to time evaluate if my 'main' char would have more isk without running them. I will be cutting down from 4 to 3 accounts in approx 4 months, but I did not need that 4th anyway, timecodes were just so cheap (with 30 d code, train, expire, etc) that 4th was more like 'hell, why not'. Those 2 'other' remaining accounts will be able to still maintain themselves, as I use them to make more isk per hour and were almost always active before this change anyway.
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Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.07.15 07:39:00 -
[860]
I used to run my 7 accounts almost all of the time. Definitely not for character farming. I do PvP, manufacture, invent, run POSes, do some alliance politics and trade in large scale. So no character farming.
With 30day GTCs it was easy for me to get 7x180m (1 260 000) ISK month. Now I have to get 7x400 each two months, (2 800 000 ISK), which is 1 400 000 ISK/month. Not much more expensive, but what this mean is that I have to spend more time grinding ISK. Also I have to buy skills, ships, and invest ISK in my ingame business. You probably don't have an idea how much ISK is that.
And because you can't have one "do it all" character, you have to have multiple chars to be able to experience most of the things EVE offers in a reasonable time.
And what I rant about is not the price increase, but the loss of convenience with the 30 and 90 day cards, that's all.
Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site
Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Web site hosting [Service] Alliance Creation |
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Ralle030583
Gallente The Wild Hunt Pure.
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Posted - 2008.07.15 07:52:00 -
[861]
Originally by: Blazing Fire
With 30day GTCs it was easy for me to get 7x180m (1 260 000) ISK month. Now I have to get 7x400 each two months, (2 800 000 ISK), which is 1 400 000 ISK/month. Not much more expensive, but what this mean is that I have to spend more time grinding ISK. Also I have to buy skills, ships, and invest ISK in my ingame business. You probably don't have an idea how much ISK is that. ...
i dont know that 140mio isk more are made in a day for you with 7 accs i think even faster, so where is the point? are you whining cause of one more day a month more work? --------------------------------------- You need a free Killboard? check: http:\\www.eve-kill.net
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait i have untr |
Corrock
Minmatar SUBLIME L.L.C. SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:20:00 -
[862]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Jacob Marden Unless I read the CSM election results wrong, it states that almost 40% of the subscription base is North American. Making that much of your playerbase pay more money essentially because the smaller percentage of Euros are evading their own countries' taxes by buying with dollars doesn't strike me as making much sense. The NA people are going to be making the same amount of income regardless, so increasing the cost of their entertainment will just alienate more of them and sooner or later they'll talk with their money.
When you guys are paying the same as the rest of us you'd have something to complain about.
Until then shove it up your arse.
Yeah, the thing with exchange rates is that when a currency drops in value against other currencies, things become more expensive, not less. The overall buying power of the currency in its native country is reduced, and everything in general now costs more. Try to at least glance at an Econ 101 text once in awhile.
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medea betencore
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.31 07:29:00 -
[863]
I had been paying for 3 accounts with ISK because I can not afford to pay in cash. Prior to this change it was never too tough to come up with 160-180m isk to turn an account back on for 30 days. The sticker shock of a 400m+ GTC is too much, yes its only 20-40m more per month, but not only am I paying more, I'm being forced to buy more.
I wanted to buy a couple onions to toss into a stew....Now I am required to pay more, and buy a ten pound bag of onions.
This isnt a threat, but I dont make enough per month for 3 accounts. I automatically lose 1 of my 3. Thats one account you were getting paid for that your not now. Having it on as a convinence will no longer happen, I'll only turn it on if I have dire need for it (and I dont see that happening).
My ISK-Income didnt go up, but my cost of living just did. I cant pay for this price increase, so I have to cut *something* to keep going, hence 1 of 3 accounts are expired and I can not purchase a GTC for it. I can come up with 160-180m, but that isnt an option availible anymore.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.08.17 14:32:00 -
[864]
this sundays 39 thousand were very angry about this Trashed sig, Shark was here |
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