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Marie Trudeau
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.14 21:44:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Remy Valios
What seems to be missed, in all of this, is the necessity of the course of "apparent territorialism". The point of this war, from the Gallentean side, is to protect our citizenry, our people. It's why I serve, it's why I fight. It is the choice, I, with my freedom, made.
...
Militarily, the conquest of territory isn't to increase one's wealth and prestige, it's to put a buffer between one's home and the reach of the foe. Holding territory once the aggression has ceased, is territorial expansion. Until then, it is protection, a protection so necessary, especially in light of the deaths of hundreds and thousands of citizens with no means of protecting themselves, as has already been shown.
This is very close to my own sentiments actually.
The men and women of Star Fraction know that I do have an abiding respect for their overarching philosophy. It has many admirable points, and I have fought for it myself in the past. But -- perhaps I have been home too long now, or perhaps I just see things differently now -- this situation, for me, is quite different. I can believe that I am an autonomous and free individual, and very much do believe that ... but I also do not forget -- cannot forget -- who I am. Gallente blood runs through my veins. This is my home. This is where my family has lived for generations. This is the culture which I love, and have always loved stubbornly. I can no more abandon all that is Gallente, and look the other way in this hour of national need, than I can cease to be Marie Anne Trudeau.
And while I may share some of the healthy and well-founded skepticism of Star Fraction regarding the federal government, nevertheless the Gallente people (quite apart from the regime) stand under severe threat from a vile dictatorship that has recently shown its taste not only for wanton and unbridled aggression in Luminaire, but also its thirst for territorial expansion into the Black Rise region -- a region which the Caldari have already colonized in secret. If the Star Fraction really cared about territorial expansion, they would do something to reverse the Caldari expansion which has already taken place in Black Rise. Instead, Star Fraction is about to enter a war between an aggressive, acquisitive dictatorship, on the one hand, and what is currently the cluster's only working democracy, on the other, which is waging a defensive action against an aggressive neighbor bent on secret territorial annexation and wanton aggression against its neighbors. You see, even if Star Fraction were to kill *all* Gallente and Caldari militiamen in Black Rise, this would simply mean that the Caldari Navy (and the State) will have consolidated its control over territory which it currently claims as sovereign Caldari space. Black Rise is not Providence. This is space that is claimed by the State. Entering a war against both sides will only serve the status quo, which is Caldari sovereignty in the region. This is not even-handed in result, and it's quite short-sighted and regrettably self-serving to refuse to recognize the practical results of what you are planning to do. But then again, for some, ideology is all, ideology is king and god rolled into one, regardless of the result, the result be damned -- sadly.
Yes, I know you will say what should I care, I do not have to rely on the Federation for my safety, I have the power to be free. But the point is that there are billions of Gallente who cannot, billions who share my blood and my culture, regardless of politics. I cannot leave them aside, or ignore the threat to them -- to me -- at this critically dangerous time. I cannot and will not. And it saddens me that former colleagues whom I respect in many ways are going, at the end of the day, to be serving the interests of those who would destroy the Gallente way of life forever. ---------------------------
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.14 22:18:00 -
[92]
If nothing else the discussion on this thread, and elsewhere, demonstrates that individuality is alive and well within the Star Fraction and throughout the capsuleer diaspora. Pilots of every stripe, hue and cry are making decisions in reaction to the cluster-shaking events of the last few weeks. They make these decisions according to their understanding of the situation before them and by the lights of their native intelligence and judgement. It is true that we consider that many of these decisions are the wrong choice. But we are not in the business of forcing others to change their minds. We are not in the business of imposing our will on others. Quite how we are supposed to achieve such acts of near-omnipotence eludes us. It might be flattering to be so accused were it not such a comical charge.
In many ways, the matter is being overcomplicated by people who seem to think that our decision is about them or others like them. The sad, bitter-sweet truth is that we have to accept, and indeed have accepted, that when capsuleers make such momentous decisions as to join government-controlled militias, affiliate to them as capsuleer corporations, or otherwise support the core empires, then they are not going to be swayed except by realisation of their own errors. It must, always, be for capsuleers to come to their own understanding of these matters. We might try to aid the process by discussion and debate but we are under no illusion that we can force anyone to do anything against their free will.
The decision that has been made by the Star Fraction has been made by us, in our interests and after due consideration of its effects with regard to our friends and allies. We do indeed act, in all things, in our interest and in the furtherance of our own freedom. It so happens that we in the Star Fraction hold that the best guarantee of our freedom is to see all others free. But we shall not be dishonest, we are not altruists and we do not pretend otherwise.
The Star Fraction has ever opposed those who would maintain or build empires. Whether it be the old powers of the core empires, or the robber barons and collectivist dictators of the outer worlds. We do not, however, take diplomatic decisions on the basis of the relationship between one capsuleer organisation and another. We have many times taken decisions based on the level of support capsuleer organisations show for the old empires. These empires, along with CONCORD, are a tremendous threat to the freedom of all.
No capsuleer corporation or alliance has or will be set -10 for its relationship with other capsuleer corporations. We do not consider the relationship between one militia-supporting corporation or another to be of any relevance to this issue. What is to the point is that capsuleer corporations that affiliate to government militias support, and support clearly and actively, the empires that control those militias.
Nor do we care what the views of our avowed enemies may or may not be as to this decision. Their opinions weigh as heavily in our councils as last month's crusted fedo-droppings. On the other hand, we pay attention to the words of those we have fought alongside in the past. Some of these words we must simply note, perhaps with a sad shaking of the head, but in respect of previous honourable conduct pass over with no comment. Only true enemies can take pleasure in the unnecessary and eristic disputations of former comrades. Other words, from those who wish to sway us by reasoned argument, while trying to understand our decision and accepting our reasons for making it, must be treated seriously.
We know that our interpretation of the nature of at least one militia is disputed by our friends. We take seriously the possibility that it is not as we see it. However, the apparatus of the Minmatar Republic is still in place and its leaders are preparing to meet. What comes of this may prove critical. We shall remain watchful of events.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Able Citizen
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.14 23:08:00 -
[93]
I see this communications channel is like an SF reunion of sorts . . . on Frentix.
I greet all Fractionistas past and present!
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Jonny Damordred
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:00:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Able Citizen I see this communications channel is like an SF reunion of sorts . . . on Frentix.
I greet all Fractionistas past and present!
It's Able, get'em boys!
Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy |
Cyriel Longinus
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.06.15 05:01:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Cyriel Longinus on 15/06/2008 05:15:13
I would say this is a bad move.
If you don't pull it off, recruitment for your member corporations will drop dead for a while. Because you're talking about enaging in a very public war with thousands of Pilots, from each Empire that are being followed by the press.
You dont have the active numbers to sustain a military presence should you target the Gallante Federation or Caldari State within the Black Rise.
If legaly feasible...the Militias have a method of dealing with your incursions by asking the independent capsuleer corporations that are now members of the Empires to deal with your visits should you enter the warzones.
For the Caldari State, you're not going to get carebears .. you will get Pirates, Mercernaries, dedicated PVP Corporations stocked with veteran alliances warriors that have found something better in Factional Warfare than shooting a POS ... all of which have signed up to fight for the State.
In fact. Consider this a caution. Don't enter the Black Rise to agrivate members of the Caldari State Militia.
XERCORE: Recruitment |
zoolkhan
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.15 06:36:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Chungito
At this point there is no more Republic, only the united tribes.
Perhaps you should tell CONCORD that.
i am quiet sure concord is still busy recovering from the last time the tribes went there to talk to them.
recruiting -forum
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.15 09:57:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus
In fact. Consider this a caution. Don't enter the Black Rise to agrivate members of the Caldari State Militia.
Your yelps do little save to signal your presence in the undergrowth of Black Rise. This is duly noted.
There are two things in the near future that you can count on happening: our forces shall enter Black Rise and we shall make every effort to harass and hinder the activities of statist militias. You may expect this to include the destruction of vessels flown by those pro-State capsuleers who merit our attentions.
I dare say your next step is to move from chest-beating to making a decision as to what precisely you are going to do about it.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Shintoko Akahoshi
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.15 18:04:00 -
[98]
Originally by: zoolkhan
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Chungito
At this point there is no more Republic, only the united tribes.
Perhaps you should tell CONCORD that.
i am quiet sure concord is still busy recovering from the last time the tribes went there to talk to them.
For which we are eternally in the Elder's debt.
Shin's writings
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.15 21:12:00 -
[99]
Supplemental Announcement
The Star Fraction has determined that the initial war targets among the ranks of Caldari State and Gallente Federation supporters fighting in around the Black Rise region shall be as follows:
The Fourth District alliance, Caldari State supporters Strix Armaments and Defence corporation, Gallente Federation militia affiliates
This announcement, together with the official declarations, constitutes fair notice.
Due consideration of their activity within the conflict zone comprising Black Rise, Lonetrek, Placid and Verge Vendor, together with the histories of these organisations as active supporters of their chosen empires and past hostilities with the Star Fraction, lead us to conclude that operations against these paramilitary organisations are appropriate at this time.
We fight for the dream of a free future.
On behalf of the Freecaptains of the Star Fraction
Supplemental Ends
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Tomahawk Bliss
The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.15 21:59:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 15/06/2008 22:00:57
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction[/b] has determined that the initial war targets among the ranks of the Gallente Federation supporters
Strix Armaments and Defence corporation, Gallente Federation militia affiliates
This announcement, together with the official declarations, constitutes fair notice.
but, but, but that isn't fair you can't dec a corp involved in the militias like STRIX!
oh dear, you know you just opened up a powder keg of crying and whining right?
anywho, I've seen SF attack and crush the squirming noodle spines of the federation loyalists before, even made a video about it...this should be fun to watch. I hope STRIX folds like every other Federation force that ever gets in a tight spot
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Wolfgang Jager
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2008.06.15 22:50:00 -
[101]
My how absolutely unexpected...I mean original even....sheesh don't you clowns *ever* do anything that isn't glaringly obvious?
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Sabina Morningstar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.15 23:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Wolfgang Jager My how absolutely unexpected...I mean original even....sheesh don't you clowns *ever* do anything that isn't glaringly obvious?
Do you plan to dismiss the drearily predictable project of deploying against the Federation in Black Rise in favour of starting a saucy burlesque tour through the looser areas of the Caldari State after having developed an affinity for the new and unexpected?
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Ayari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.16 01:11:00 -
[103]
I'd like to thank Star Fraction for saving us the trouble of paying CONCORD.
Please don't spend *all* your time in Placid, it can get terribly dull in Black Rise.
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve |
AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.16 09:56:00 -
[104]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite Further, any independent capsuleer corporation that affiliates itself to the core empires and their militias may be set -10 on the basis of such affiliation at our option. We also reserve the option of using sanctioned warfare against any notable capsuleer corporations that are affiliated to the core empires and their militias.
So you oppose us submitting to governments but expect us to submit to you instead?
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 10:16:00 -
[105]
Originally by: AltBier So you oppose us submitting to governments but expect us to submit to you instead?
No Mr. Altbier we expect you to realise that their are consequences to your choices. You choose to fight for the Republic. I assume that you believe that you are fighting for your freedom and to protect your people? We believe that we are also doing the same. The militia's represent a threat to our way of life and seek to influence the universe in ways we believe will reduce our liberty.
The case of the Republic in our discussion within Star Fraction was never cut and dry as we enjoy many similar view points with our brethren in the Ushra'Khan and the Matari people in general but the major factor was the militia's supporting of the Republic which we believe is inherently corrupt and divisive to the future of the Matari people and those who associate with them. As has been stated above we shall be watching the events in the Republic unfold with great interest as it saddens many of us that many of the noblest people in the Universe are falling under the sway of these Territorialist powers.
Fly in Freedom Mr. Altbier.
Heartstone
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AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.16 12:33:00 -
[106]
Mr. Heartstone, I thank you for your fast response.
Please also note that I DO NOT speak for any corp in any way. I am merely expressing my own views here.
There are very few corps which have not supported the various empires in some way. Many fly missions for their respective agents, as Ms Marie Trudeau also points out.
Originally by: Azure Skyclad I don't see where we have told any of you what you can and can't do or what you should or should not do.
But you have or at least you have stated that you will try.
Originally by: Centra Spike Freeing people from slavery is indeed a noble cause, but contesting, conquering and occupying space in the name of an empire goes against the very ideals of freespace.
This I can understand and to a degree I even agree. We should not, in the long run, occupy planets or systems.
Originally by: Centra Spike Whatever feelings of solidarity I have with the Minmatar and their quest to free their brethren from enslavement under the Amarr, I cannot forget my purpose: to fight against those who wish restrict free movement of capsuleers.
Are you not intending to prevent militia members from entering the newly discovered regions between gallente and caldari space?
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Krystian
Luminaire Atrocity
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Posted - 2008.06.16 13:52:00 -
[107]
Well looks like we found a target all sides of the conflict can hate. Hope you enjoy being assaulted by all sides and hounded by pirates. I will happily kill you as well. If this is some half hearted attempt to get faction loyal capsoleer's to join your Alliance, your only making it worse for your PR directors. You choose to butt in so die.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 14:19:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Krystian Well looks like we found a target all sides of the conflict can hate. Hope you enjoy being assaulted by all sides and hounded by pirates.
Whilst I would not say we enjoy people attempting to kill our crew and inflict some annoyance on ourselves we are used to it. Our voice is not one that is welcomed by the majority in the cluster and that is something we both regret and live with.
Quote: If this is some half hearted attempt to get faction loyal capsoleer's to join your Alliance, your only making it worse for your PR directors.
Despite this being nothing to do with recruitment it does seem to have sparked some interest I will have to admit. Over the course of the last few months our application rate has been the highest in a long time with no sign of it slowing down. So thank you for your concern for our Directors but it seems it is an unnecessary worry.
Heartstone
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.16 15:14:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Krystian Well looks like we found a target all sides of the conflict can hate. Hope you enjoy being assaulted by all sides and hounded by pirates. I will happily kill you as well. If this is some half hearted attempt to get faction loyal capsoleer's to join your Alliance, your only making it worse for your PR directors. You choose to butt in so die.
No surprise here. We're found during our five years of opposing tyrannical memetics in the Star Cluster that the main thing the nationalist psyche CAN agree on is they hate freedom and independent capsuleer aspiration. Easy for territorial mindset on both sides of an arbitrary nationalist divide to loathe anti-nationalism, since it opposes the founding principle of their servitude not just the color of the flag they are waving today.
Makes you think eh?
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.16 15:36:00 -
[110]
No point in going on about how we feel about this.
Add 6rasshopper inc to your -10 list....
you have been set to -10 and we will shoot on sight (so will any Fleet we are in charge of)...
Thank You...
Anywhere, Anytime. |
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Centra Spike
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 15:38:00 -
[111]
Originally by: AltBier
Originally by: Centra Spike Whatever feelings of solidarity I have with the Minmatar and their quest to free their brethren from enslavement under the Amarr, I cannot forget my purpose: to fight against those who wish restrict free movement of capsuleers.
Are you not intending to prevent militia members from entering the newly discovered regions between gallente and caldari space?
They are free to go where they please, but since they are trying to occupy this new region, they can expect to get shot at. ------
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AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.16 16:41:00 -
[112]
Edited by: AltBier on 16/06/2008 16:41:54
Originally by: Centra Spike They are free to go where they please, but since they are trying to occupy this new region, they can expect to get shot at.
I'm sure all alliances say the same about the space they control!
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Azure Skyclad
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 16:48:00 -
[113]
Originally by: AltBier Edited by: AltBier on 16/06/2008 12:40:39
Originally by: Azure Skyclad I don't see where we have told any of you what you can and can't do or what you should or should not do.
But you have!
We have not dictated to anyone how they should conduct themselves. We have only explained our position on the militia matter.
Whatever choices you make are your business.
If you're asking me what you should do i could certainly make a suggestion. Your choices are still ultimately your choices though.
http://ultravixen.co.uk/ |
AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.16 17:56:00 -
[114]
As I said to your collegue, how is that different from any other alliance in space?
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 18:19:00 -
[115]
Originally by: AltBier As I said to your collegue, how is that different from any other alliance in space?
As the announcement states, we won't shoot someone for entering a certain space. We'll shoot them because they are a nationalist dog seeking to claim space for a regressive government entity.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 18:56:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Swift Wind No point in going on about how we feel about this.
Add 6rasshopper inc to your -10 list....
you have been set to -10 and we will shoot on sight (so will any Fleet we are in charge of)...
Thank You...
Thank you for making your position clear to us. We will hold off setting you to our red list until we are actually shot at by one of your pilots however.
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Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.16 19:57:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Swift Wind on 16/06/2008 19:58:53
Originally by: Heartstone
Originally by: Swift Wind No point in going on about how we feel about this.
Add 6rasshopper inc to your -10 list....
you have been set to -10 and we will shoot on sight (so will any Fleet we are in charge of)...
Thank You...
Thank you for making your position clear to us. We will hold off setting you to our red list until we are actually shot at by one of your pilots however.
Fair enough.
added: wait, so Corps in the Militias are exempt? Can you clarify this please.
Anywhere, Anytime. |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.16 20:45:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Heartstone on 16/06/2008 20:46:13
Originally by: Swift Wind
added: wait, so Corps in the Militias are exempt? Can you clarify this please.
It's all in the original announcement let me clarify.
We have set the state sponsored militias themselves to -10. This is the State Protectorate, the Federal Defence Union, the 24th Imperial Crusade and the Tribal Liberation Force. These are the only standing alterations we have made. At the same time we have announced that any capulseer corp joining the overall Militia structure will be determined to be fighting directly on behalf of the appropriate territorial power. This doesn't automatically adjust our standings to them but is considered to be a black mark in the ledger so to speak. Pilots who run missions for the various corporations within the Empires will not have any such connected issues as they are freelancing and a certain degree of separation exists between the Freelancer and the Empire.
So far no new standings have been set on any capsuleer organisation as a result of their being part of a capsuleer militia corporation. (To the best of my knowledge although I have been logged out of the Star Fraction information network for a few hours at this point)
As always anyone firing on a Star Fraction vessel will be considered hostile and their corporation/alliance will be set to negative standings although in the case of a mistaken incident we always welcome a diplomatic conversation.
I hope this helps clear things up. Please feel free to contact myself or one of the other directors for more information.
Heartstone
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AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.17 07:51:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kelsin
Originally by: AltBier As I said to your collegue, how is that different from any other alliance in space?
As the announcement states, we won't shoot someone for entering a certain space. We'll shoot them because they are a nationalist dog seeking to claim space for a regressive government entity.
What I find mildly confusing is that you are, defacto, seeking to keep people out of the newly descovered regions who, AFAIK, operate under the NRDS which I believe you are trying to foster.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.17 09:41:00 -
[120]
Originally by: AltBier What I find mildly confusing is that you are, defacto, seeking to keep people out of the newly descovered regions who, AFAIK, operate under the NRDS which I believe you are trying to foster.
With respect this is inncorrect. We aren't attempting to force people out of a region, in fact we rejoice that thier newly opened up space is already quite heavily populated. What we are trying to do, in part, is attempt to reduce the capulseer support of the core government entites thereby weakening thier ability to quickly "grab" more territory for themsleves.
In regards to the NRDS issue well as stated the only entities who have had thier status changed so far are the corprorations of pilots who have activly engaged us and those government controlled militias. We are, as always, open to diplomatic discussions.
It is with sadness we note that one of the militias has already given orders to it's affiliated capsuleer corporations to unilaterally set Star Fraction to negative standings. I personally hope some of those corporations will see this enclosurist piece of mind control for what it is and withdraw thier support or at least ignore the instruction as it will only lead to more death and destruction.
Heartstone
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