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EVE, n00bs, missions, inflation and no need to leave empire

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Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 16/06/2008 21:14:21 When EVE was released back in 2003, owning a frigate BPO was something doable (Rifter, 2.3 mil ISK), owning a cruiser BPO (Rupture, 62 mil ISK) needed dedication and something like a battleship BPO (over 900 mil ISK) was a dream reserved for the large corporations like Oracle. I just heard from an individual on the help channel that was asking about how to get rich quick. He was down to his last (??) "72 million ISK" with a spare, fully equipped, Drake in reserve. If someone can accumulate so much ISK, in such a short time, in empire doing missions, the I fear that the EVE universe has a serious problem. Why should new players even leave their warm and cosy NPC empire corporation and form a corporation to increase profits ? Why should they venture into low sec for greater gains ? Why should they even go near 0.0 space ? It appears to me that the "n00bs" in EVE are having a great time doing missions and upgrading their ships without having to really be involved with the community, let alone form/join a corporation. When EVE started, it was dog eat dog, and you had to form/join a corporation/alliance to survive. It looks like that isn't a requirement any more thanks to the highly rewarding missions in empire space. CCP, please up the ante. Please change the missions so that level 1-2 (maybe 3) = solo, level 3-4 = gang/corp missions and 4-5 = corp/alliance missions. You're not going to get player interaction with the current system. I can only hope that the militias can attack anyone, in any system (even in High Sec) if they are in an NPC (aligned corporation/tribe/etc.) so that people will see that EVE isn't a cake walk. JP --
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:13:00 - [2] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime When EVE was released back in 2005... Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Tamia Clant Originally by: Jaabaa Prime When EVE was released back in 2005... Fixed, was thinking 5 years while trying to type 2003. Corrected now --
The Bandid Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:16:00 - [4] Slaps Jaabaa, Eve was released in 03 matey, even i know that :P
Gojyu Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:21:00 - [5] Quote: You're not going to get player interaction with the current system. The numbers speak differently
Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Gojyu Quote: You're not going to get player interaction with the current system. The numbers speak differently And just how big of a percentage of the total EVE population are in those alliances ? What percentage of the EVE population are even out of empire space ? Consider the real numbers. --
DwiFF Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:26:00 - [7] I have got to agree tbh, eve is becoming 2 sided even with the new militia wars, its either Empire or 0.0 low sec is run by the heavy 0.0 alliances and high sec is a safe haven for making isk and wars while being some what untouchable. Im not that old of a character but i remember my first 10 mil handed to me by a friend to help me get started. i cherrished it and made the best of it struggling doing missions (before things like Drakes come out) and working for the game, now i feel with the tech 2 item drop in price and people macroing its making eve far to easy to play and make isk.
Malen Nenokal Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:34:00 - [8] Although slight inflation may have had -some- push on this. I don't think it was inflation that caused it. It was the new bloodlines. I've only been playing for a year now, but I would have loved to start with the original bloodlines, given the choice. Getting my first cruiser would have been much more rewarding. I can see why CCP did it, and the game is still very fun. But I think that is what caused your concerns. -
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:38:00 - [9] Various points, in no particular order: 1. I see no problem with the current isk flow. People who want isk can do it, people who want to do fun stuff together can do it, etc. All forcing people into making less isk will do is drive people away from the game. We found out the hard way with L5 missions that the whole risk vs reward thing sort of breaks down at some point, when 'good' ships get sufficiently expensive relative to the potential payout people just wont do it. 2. Yes, it was harder to get 100 million back then, but it also meant a whole helluva lot more. A battleship was a serious thing, top of the line, now its pretty much junk compared to HACs, CS, BO/Marauders, and of course the capitals that have blighted everything since 2006. 3. Not everyone wants to go into .0, particularly now that its mostly become an e-peening ground for big alliances and their mighty blobs of lag. Again, I see no problem with this--Eve is a sandbox game where one can do what they like, be it pirating, living fast and loose on the edge, being a soldier for a cause, or gasp just chilling out in empire space. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:39:00 - [10] Proudly, I don't think I've ever had as much as 200million in my account. I spend money far too fast ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Dessa DesPlains Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:40:00 - [11] Beacuse empire is boring and has too many lame-ass gankers?
Qduhaf	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:44:00 - [12] Well the valuable parts of 0.0 are already secured by big alliances, with hundreds of players that have years of SPs. industry is dominated by t2 bpo holders, level 5 builders and maxed BPOs, and very slim margins. So where do new players look to make their mark - ammassing isk through mindless and low risk missioning, ratting and even mining. FW is step in right direction, in that it encourages T1 PVP again. But unless FW institutes some mechanisms that reward small gangs of T1 ships it will cut off a path that players can engage in the PVP aspects of the game. Every blood line should have a character set that can fly a T1 frig with MWD, web and Warp disruptor from the beginning.
Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Del Narveux Various points, in no particular order: 1. I see no problem with the current isk flow. People who want isk can do it, people who want to do fun stuff together can do it, etc. All forcing people into making less isk will do is drive people away from the game. We found out the hard way with L5 missions that the whole risk vs reward thing sort of breaks down at some point, when 'good' ships get sufficiently expensive relative to the potential payout people just wont do it. 2. Yes, it was harder to get 100 million back then, but it also meant a whole helluva lot more. A battleship was a serious thing, top of the line, now its pretty much junk compared to HACs, CS, BO/Marauders, and of course the capitals that have blighted everything since 2006. 3. Not everyone wants to go into .0, particularly now that its mostly become an e-peening ground for big alliances and their mighty blobs of lag. Again, I see no problem with this--Eve is a sandbox game where one can do what they like, be it pirating, living fast and loose on the edge, being a soldier for a cause, or gasp just chilling out in empire space. 1. Where is the risk vs. reward doing level 4 missions in empire ? Is there any risk at all ? 2. 100 mil ISK back then and 100 mil ISK now should be just as hard to acquire IMO, then HACs, CS, etc. would really add value to the gang/fleet because you can't just replace them doing a couple of level 4 missions in empire on an alt/main. 3. The big alliances in 0.0 space started as little alliances in loc/0.0 sec space, there is little incentive for anyone to even go there atm considering the profits you can gain in high sec empire. --
Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 21:53:00 - [14] Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 16/06/2008 21:53:43 Originally by: Qduhaf So where do new players look to make their mark - ammassing isk through mindless and low risk missioning, ratting and even mining. Well, they won't do it that way, which is exactly my point. At release we had loads of corporations in the "Molden Heath Defence Coalition" (MHDC) that covered each other's asses in low sec against the then pirate scum of the area SPVD. And out of things like that, grew other alliances and 0.0 control. But somehow, I don't think that new players have this need. Originally by: Qduhaf FW is step in right direction, in that it encourages T1 PVP again. But unless FW institutes some mechanisms that reward small gangs of T1 ships it will cut off a path that players can engage in the PVP aspects of the game. FW should have taken it 1 step further IMHO, if you are in an aligned NPC corporation and you are not a total new player (maybe >2 months) then you become a valid FW target. Originally by: Qduhaf Every blood line should have a character set that can fly a T1 frig with MWD, web and Warp disruptor from the beginning. How about no. --
NAMD3	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:02:00 - [15] Your complaining because people play the game they way they want, isn't this the concept of the game, A 'Sandbox' not everyone wants to PVP not everyone wants to trade and or become an industrialist, let the player who want to mission run let them, hows this affecting your PVP? if you cant earn your millions from the way you play the game do something else perhaps or get better at what your doing, its still dog eat dog game world speak to a mission runner who got suicide ganked for billions, think thats not harsh enough? The only noob is you...
Qduhaf	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 16/06/2008 21:53:43 Originally by: Qduhaf Every blood line should have a character set that can fly a T1 frig with MWD, web and Warp disruptor from the beginning. How about no. So by not giving new players access to the bare essentials needed to be effective in PVP you force them into a playstyle of ratting, missioning or mining in highsec. You can't say that people should play the way you did when the game was released, everyone was on an even playing field then. Now you band together 10 frigs to fight pirates in lowsec and you will get ganked by 10 MOMS.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:04:00 - [17] well, at least its been a while since we've had a whine about missions. leave mission runners alone for crying out loud. i've been playing for years myself and it took a long time and a lot of skill training to be able to solo L4s. L5s are where you need support. they've nerfed missions twice and just increased the dps on npcs, stop whining for crying out loud and play the game YOU want to play and leave the rest of us alone. blame the politics of 0.0 for pushing everyone to empire, NOT the game mechanics. its still far more profitable to do just about anything in lo-sec/0.0. so do your thing and stop whining because you think someone is getting something you aren't. You're doing it wrong.
Qduhaf	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:07:00 - [18] want to make this game more fun, get rid of POS, all cap ships, and emergency warp log off. And while you are at it make level 4 missions in low sec only, and increase pay outs for level 5s, but only in 0.0. ofc instituting some form of small gang pick-up PVP through a missioning system would also be a possibility for CCP to institute.
Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Qduhaf want to make this game more fun, get rid of POS, all cap ships, and emergency warp log off. And while you are at it make level 4 missions in low sec only, and increase pay outs for level 5s, but only in 0.0. ofc instituting some form of small gang pick-up PVP through a missioning system would also be a possibility for CCP to institute. Signed on just about everything apart from getting rid of cap ships, unless we can reassign invested SPs (training time) to other things, than that would be agreed to too --
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:24:00 - [20] maybe because making isk isn't everything in the game. actually getting more isk does nothing for you really, if you can't spend it what the hell is the point? I'll never understand people missioning in navy ravens for more isk. they already have the best ship they can use and they already have the best modules, why are they running missions? why don't they go spend the money? die a little?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 16/06/2008 21:28:23 Originally by: Gojyu Quote: You're not going to get player interaction with the current system. The numbers speak differently And just how big of a percentage of the total EVE population are in those alliances ? What percentage of the EVE population are even out of empire space ? Consider the real numbers. Edit: Even according to CCP's internal studies 76% of the EVE population lives in high sec this isn't counted FW which currently has over 20,000 people living in lowsec that were not.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Qduhaf Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Edited by: Jaabaa Prime on 16/06/2008 21:53:43 Originally by: Qduhaf Every blood line should have a character set that can fly a T1 frig with MWD, web and Warp disruptor from the beginning. How about no. So by not giving new players access to the bare essentials needed to be effective in PVP you force them into a playstyle of ratting, missioning or mining in highsec. You can't say that people should play the way you did when the game was released, everyone was on an even playing field then. Now you band together 10 frigs to fight pirates in lowsec and you will get ganked by 10 MOMS. I agree... kinda. it takes 10 mins to train a new charatcer to this point.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:29:00 - [23] There is no inflation. Just economical growth.
Zinras GRAZY DANES Plunder-Bears	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:37:00 - [24] Edited by: Zinras on 16/06/2008 22:40:08 Dear OP, EVE is not what it was 5 years ago, whether you like it or not. Part of the sandbox is that the players change the game to how they see fit within the limits CCP sets. Perhaps you'd like to answer why people actually SHOULD go to 0.0 instead of doing what they want. Personally, 0.0 doesn't sound like a very fun place unless you have tons of cash to replace the ships you inevitably lose. If you've taken a look at the 0.0 maps lately, you'd notice that large parts (and certainly the most profitable) have long since been secured by large alliances who mostly operate on NBSI. I plan on going there sometime but you bet I'm not leaving on a god-knows-how-many-hour trip in a ship only to be shot to pieces the first time I set foot in the wrong system, if I don't have some sort of reliable backup in the form of cash and ships. Do I want to mission run? Gods no, but I like even less to be forced into massive alliances and attentionwhoring (sorry, I meant "politics"). So instead, I'm joining a friend in a high sec mostly PvP corp that is always at war with someone to get my basic PvP skills going. I get to both PvP and get time to collect some ISK when I enevitably get blown to pieces, without taking part in blobs or guarding system X because someone in BoB or Goonswarm sneezed in the general direction of that area. Edit: Needs better grammar Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Hannobaal Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:40:00 - [25] Edited by: Hannobaal on 16/06/2008 22:42:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista There is no inflation. Just economical growth. Exctly what I was going to write. People not understanding what inflation really is has become my pet peeve on this forum. If it was inflation, then it would be like people used to have say 10 mil in their wallet on average and now they have 100, but the 100 mil now buys about the same amount of stuff as 10 mil used to buy because the prices have all gone up. Other than that, I agree partially with the op.
Jaabaa Prime Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 16/06/2008 22:42:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista There is no inflation. Just economical growth. Exctly what I was going to write. People not understanding what inflation really is has become my pet peeve on this forum. If it was inflation, then it would be like people used to have say 10 mil in their wallet on average and now they have 100, but the 100 mil now buys about the same amount of stuff as 10 mil used to buy because the prices have all gone up. Other than that, I agree partially with the op. Fair enough, then let EVE economical growth apply to the NPC's control over BPOs and Skills. Revamp the skill and BPO prices to at least reflect average increases in base mineral prices. The NPC corporations, if they really existed as a separate entity, would also increase their prices as more ISK became available. So, based on your comment, skills and BPOs should now cost 10 times as much now too ? --
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:52:00 - [27] Sorry but the game isn't about to be rolled back to 2003 just because you are jealous that new players make more isk than when you were a noob. Yeah, i am sure they are really about to mess with the economy now that FW is out and for most players, those missions are the only thing keeping them in it. Another thing: as someone who used to be a mission runner, I can vouch that it is hard work. You really have to be highly skilled to get to the point where you can solo most lvl 4's easily. Even then, it becomes a tedious time consuming affair. Granted, you can make a lot of isk from it but it is a grind. I did the whole "look I have a shiny new Nightmare" thing as well and it isn't all it's ***ed up to be either. I agree with the last poster who said buying Faction ships is kind of counterproductive. I bought mine because I could though. Quite frankly, I now make much more** isk trading in Empire than I ever did in lvl 4's and I work only a fraction as hard for it.
Hannobaal Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.16 22:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 16/06/2008 22:42:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista There is no inflation. Just economical growth. Exctly what I was going to write. People not understanding what inflation really is has become my pet peeve on this forum. If it was inflation, then it would be like people used to have say 10 mil in their wallet on average and now they have 100, but the 100 mil now buys about the same amount of stuff as 10 mil used to buy because the prices have all gone up. Other than that, I agree partially with the op. Fair enough, then let EVE economical growth apply to the NPC's control over BPOs and Skills. Revamp the skill and BPO prices to at least reflect average increases in base mineral prices. The NPC corporations, if they really existed as a separate entity, would also increase their prices as more ISK became available. So, based on your comment, skills and BPOs should now cost 10 times as much now too ? Wait, wait, wait, you're basically saying that you want CCP to create inflation in the game?
Hannobaal Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.16 23:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Element 22 Originally by: LaVista Vista There is no inflation. Just economical growth. O rly? But I kid, one of the issue is the fact that there are unlimited resources, even in real world economies the resources become harder and harder to get as they are used, thus creating a "curve" of sorts against supply. You can't obviously do this in eve because the new players wouldn't have a chance... Personally I feel that FW is a step in the right direction; Once I get a new motherboard so I can play eve again I shall validate this claim (/clam) Resources aren't really unlimited in Eve either. Especially the most important one (which trumps all the others): playing time.
Mika Meroko Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.06.16 23:12:00 - [30] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 16/06/2008 23:14:44 another hardcore kiddie (yay mom I am with the leet crowd!) wanting to force his vision onto others... hate to break it to ya.. back in 2003, one of my account's char is only 5k sp when he started. and we dont have alot of anything back then.. (remember the days when you DONT get 800k sp?) we also had mines though...space mines... those were sweet... and so is cruise kessies. but yeah, back to the topic at hand... I like to think that eve 2003 is like earth in pre-industrial revolution.. where only the rich gets educated, and people dont own alot of stuff.... is the situation you described... but Eve now... is like ... well, 2008 =P ... overall, everybody have alot of education. food/necessities arent that expensive.. everybody can afford to buy alot more personal effects. is a nice place to be... (unless you are somewhere in Africa...) personaly, I dont see a problem with increase earning power... since theres no real inflation in eve.. is controled by mineral prices (and npc orders)...yes, people can buy more...but is that a bad thing? the only thing that are really out there are officer stuff... but lets face it.. those are luxuries I mean... not everybody can own a Ferrari but almost everybody (in NA) can own a car...(T1 ships?) I see no problem with economic growth and increased buying power..... I mean... the T1 (basics) are the same (almost) prices they were.... T2 is dropping due to competition/overall tech advance (invention) so... why is this a problem again Jaabaa? btw, Low sec and 0.0 ARE more profitable than highsec.. you just need to know what you are doing AND have the muscle to back it up (key being... most newbies dont have that muscle/friends to unseat established entities) but yeah... it is more profitable in low and 0.0... and the easier cash flow helps pvp.... people are less adversive to losing ships when they can get it back easier.... The problem with lack of interaction community is there.. but the cause is NOT what you think.... is not profit... but rather.. drumrolls TRUST... think about it for a sec.. do you honestly trust anyone in eve that you cant physically molest in real life? the answer is no.... and if you answer yes, I would like to borrow 500 million please. I will pay it back (realisticly) in a year at 550 million. it is the lack of trust and accountably that makes alot of people solo players in eve... think about that... edit: hence why investments in time and anything expensive is ... rare.. I mean, I give newbies free frigs and T1 fit for it all the time... but you wouldnt be able to get me to gang ya/join your corp where you can kill me in my CNR

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