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Nick Faulkner
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nick Faulkner on 22/06/2008 01:11:01 Edited by: Nick Faulkner on 22/06/2008 01:10:25 I was roaming around Jita and decided to check out the FW at Tama. The gate to Tama was being camped by Caldari Milita. On the other side of the gate there were a lot Gallente ships so i am assuming that they were the Gallente Milita. Someone correct me if i am wrong here. I am not part of FW so i didn't get attacked on either side of the gate.
A large Executive Outcomes (EXE) fleet jumps in with a few capitals. Numbers of locals increase to 200 and we started getting lagged. A very organized EXE fleet massacres the unorganized FW fleet at the gate in Tama. Check out the killboard for EXE's kills in Tama at the link below.
Out of now where another cynosural opens up and the Red Alliances (RA) jumps in a huge capital fleet to take on EXE. EXE loses a carrier and many battleships to RA fleet. RA had around 18 capitals in the fleet with a good balance of dreads and carriers.
RA lost some battleships but clearly won the battle. Ninja looters jumped in to make some ISK towards end. Looters were being sniped from range by small fleets of milita, INVT and EXE.
To summarize, a FW Milita got owned by EXE. EXE got owned by RA.
EXE Kills : http://exe.vizarts.de/kb/?a=kills EXE loses :http://exe.vizarts.de/kb/?a=losses RA KB :http://killboard.red-alliance.su/?op=list
I witnessed the battle from my pod and it seems that without proper leadership even 100 militia ships cannot do much damage to alliance fleets. I wonder how the Caldari milita managed to take out the RA carriers recently.
I think FW blobs are like dead space complex spawns for alliances. At least, it seems that way from this battle.
Anyways, it was awesome battle to witness. Hope the militia's bounce back do some damage to EXE and RA.
Cheers.
Nick.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:16:00 -
[2]
the gal militia also warped in a force of some sort, engaged RA and got wiped out.
This was followed by a mass kessy swarm in old man star where alot of expencive gal ships were lost.
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3791 the fight
In short its all gone to hell
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Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:18:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Nick Faulkner Hope the militia's bounce back do some damage to EXE and RA.
Were not at war with RA or EXE, and are definitely not looking for a fight with them. It;s just a turf war between them over some pos i believe.
Those 3 carriers last week decided to engage us and payed for it.
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Uzume Ame
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:18:00 -
[4]
Sound like a lot of fun, can't wait to have the stupid 0.5 standing with my noobish char and get pawned and pawn others.
On how caldari militia got 3 RA carriers: lack of support fleet by carriers + better organisation in that fleet/day?
It seems FW is delibering fun :D
Teh failure of a signature. |
Uzume Ame
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: Nick Faulkner Hope the militia's bounce back do some damage to EXE and RA.
Were not at war with RA or EXE, and are definitely not looking for a fight with them. It;s just a turf war between them over some pos i believe.
Those 3 carriers last week decided to engage us and payed for it.
Why did EXE engange you then?
Teh failure of a signature. |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:25:00 -
[6]
Stupid alliances... don't they know Black Rise is for kids.
Leave the new FW low sec alone you bullies. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
IHearULiek Mudkipz
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:36:00 -
[7]
I thought the militias were leet though and could pwn the big alliances?
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Shadow Saint
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:36:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Shadow Saint on 22/06/2008 01:37:15
Originally by: Pithecanthropus Stupid alliances... don't they know Black Rise is for kids.
Leave the new FW low sec alone you bullies.
tbh that probably made the FW people's day, kb's make it look like it was fun to watch at the very least Just floating around 0.0 |
Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.22 02:22:00 -
[9]
The Gallente were camping the gate to Nourv (keeping the Caldari out) when EXE jumped us. It was basically the best set-up EXE could hope for, the way Gallente were all grouped around the gate. The number of kills they got don't really reflect the advantage they had (as a matter of fact, there aren't many kills on that board considering there were 60-70 Gallente).
It could have been worse for the Gallente, that's for sure.
Member of Noob Mercs. |
Gamesguy
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.22 02:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Those 3 carriers last week decided to engage us and payed for it.
3 random carriers with no support deciding to mess with the FW militia is not the same as an actual organized fleet.
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rgreat
OEG Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.22 02:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nick Faulkner RA lost some battleships but...
We lost 1 cyno Recon only. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Valkazm
Russian Specnaz Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.22 03:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Valkazm on 22/06/2008 03:00:20 it was awesome as RA support landed on the gate to Tama i was like wtf seeing about 30 neutral or so ships with us in an organized fashion just sitting there .. As i jumped in the destruction was immense everywhere there was like 30 folishly engaged text popups and as the lagg started to clear i was like oh yyyyyyeaaah im in this fight now .. Then some maller decided to target the smallest ship in support which is me practicly the only tacker still lagging i manage to warp out in armour making it back to just finish of one kill .. DAMN YOU MALLER PILOT .. .......................................
Quote: CCP Navigator mail at [email protected] for isk
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Isiskhan
Gnostic Misanthropy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 03:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nick Faulkner I witnessed the battle from my pod and it seems that without proper leadership even 100 militia ships cannot do much damage to alliance fleets. I wonder how the Caldari milita managed to take out the RA carriers recently.
I was in that gate as part of the Gallente militia, one of the first to be primaried, and it wasn't a matter of lacking proper leadership. More a matter of lacking proper intelligence about what was about to come through that gate.
Our fleet was the usual rag-tag FW mixture of basically all types of ships, waiting for the Caldari fleet to gather to balls to jump through in their usual FW mixture (ie: lots of Kessies, Caracals and Drakes).
What we were not expecting was the massive onslaught of BSs, HACs, etc. EXE deployed and proceeded to wipe us out with. Many didn't even react initially to the neutral targets that started to show up in overview.
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Domalais
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 03:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Isiskhan I was in that gate as part of the Gallente militia, one of the first to be primaried, and it wasn't a matter of lacking proper leadership. More a matter of lacking proper intelligence about what was about to come through that gate.
That's part of leadership. No real reason you couldn't have had a scout out.
I am sure that with time the leadership and organization on the factional militas with improve. In fact, I'm working on one of my alt's standings so that I can FC militia fleets. I enjoy teaching new players how to PVP and perhaps I can forge some good teams out of the milita.
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Alfred Spangler
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 03:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: baltec1 the gal militia also warped in a force of some sort, engaged RA and got wiped out.
This was followed by a mass kessy swarm in old man star where alot of expencive gal ships were lost.
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3791 the fight
In short its all gone to hell
We had 98 involved on a Dominix kill, it got truncated. Most were Kestrels. Lovely
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.06.22 03:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nick Faulkner Edited by: Nick Faulkner on 22/06/2008 01:11:01 Edited by: Nick Faulkner on 22/06/2008 01:10:25 ...I wonder how the Caldari milita managed to take out the RA carriers recently... Cheers.
Nick.
No great mystery. Lag. ...
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rValdez5987
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment
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Posted - 2008.06.22 03:53:00 -
[17]
you guys have to remember one thing.
If the militia's do outsmart a 0.0 entity the 0,0 guys get laughed at.
If a militia doesn't outsmart a 0,0 entity, then theres no harm done. The militia's are supposed to be a training ground of sorts before a pilot moves up to 0,0
If the militia's start becoming as organized as a 0,0 superpower, then that would be frightening.
I guess with alts it could be possible although I doubt it.
Either way sounds like fun was had.
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.22 04:03:00 -
[18]
Why does RA get to have all the fun? Please bring some Goons next time. I'll work my way through the Russian.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.06.22 05:25:00 -
[19]
hummm maybe that's their way of recruiting; shock&awe. impressing some pvp-interested folks can best be done by wiping them first -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.06.22 05:28:00 -
[20]
People forget... the militias are here for one thing, and ONE thing only. FIGHT THE WAR. If alliances feel like carebearing up POS's throughout militia space and warzones, they will have to deal with consequences. Alliances that are not part of the war are taking away militia resources to fund for the war. That is NOT the best thing for them to be doing... and definitely not going to sit well with militias. I'm sure some agreements can be made, but as it is now space in new Black Rise seems to be up for grabs.
Why is alliance greed getting in the way, when they supposedly have all of 0.0 to roam and gain? I don't know.
Maybe some of them can shed some llight on it. My guess is there are some dyspor moons they are fighting over.
--------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
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Pasreina
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2008.06.22 06:16:00 -
[21]
If my FW FC ever decides to do a POS op, I'll just give him the finger and go get myself exploded properly somewhere else.
I'm in this for the fun; POSes are pretty much the opposite.
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Arlenna Molatov
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.06.22 06:57:00 -
[22]
I think the gallenta and Caldari should call a temp truce and work together to kill RA!! Two militias against one 0.0 Alliance.
I would REALLY like to see that :)
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Ranger 1
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:01:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/06/2008 07:04:24 Sounds like a typical day in 0.0 actually. It also sounds like good fun was had by all.
It might behoove FW leadership to have some discussion with the major alliances operating in the same theater of war. You "really" need to get a handle on whom to worry about, whom to ignore, and whom you might be able to count on for support.
I'm wondering, as time goes by, just how much of this sort of alliance activity we will see against FW forces in low sec. Many pilots in major alliances do need to keep a somewhat positive security status (of course others could care less). And if those pilots occasionally fly missions for your Faction... well... they may not be pleased to see big losses with their favorite factions standings.
What ever happens, I think Faction pilots will need to start setting personal or corp standings to hostile alliances to sort out whom they should be targeting (of course, anyone blinky blinky is fair game... but that will often mean they got in the first shots).
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.
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Sasha Sen
Celestrial Angels
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Domalais
Originally by: Isiskhan I was in that gate as part of the Gallente militia, one of the first to be primaried, and it wasn't a matter of lacking proper leadership. More a matter of lacking proper intelligence about what was about to come through that gate.
That's part of leadership. No real reason you couldn't have had a scout out.
I am sure that with time the leadership and organization on the factional militas with improve. In fact, I'm working on one of my alt's standings so that I can FC militia fleets. I enjoy teaching new players how to PVP and perhaps I can forge some good teams out of the milita.
I wasn't there, but scout or no scout, FW fleets don't expect to be targeted by neutrals, especially if they are not part of a known pirate corp or have somewhat decent sec status. And I can assure you, plenty of good pilots to forge a good team out of, either faction you join. _______________________________________________________________________________________________
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:09:00 -
[25]
CCP said that they didn't allow alliances to join FW to stop them from just taking it over - but isn't that just what we are seeing here?
Yes, people will say sandbox etc etc and they are right, but while in theory militias could combat any alliance doing this û alliances, by game design, are simply better structurally to fight a war than a militia can ever be. Militia realistically can not get its entire force organized for operations, they can not control who joins, they can not prevent spying etc while alliances can.
The practical response from a militia would be to form standard corps and fight like that but then FW becomes just that, standard Eve and the design goal of encouraging small gang pvp participation of more of the player base dies.
Currently there is nothing in place to stop any alliance from just rolling into the FW zones and taking over but if CCP want FW to run the way they have said then what can they realistically do to prevent this kind of "interferenceö? (for want of a better concept). Or will they just have to allow the sandbox screwing of FW?
I like factional warfare and think it is a great addition to Eve but if alliances start to swamp it (and thatÆs two (?) instances in the first week) can it, in a practical sense, hold up?
I wonder what CCPs take on the longer term consequences of events like this will be?
------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ------------------------------------------- |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Currently there is nothing in place to stop any alliance from just rolling into the FW zones and taking over but if CCP want FW to run the way they have said then what can they realistically do to prevent this kind of "interferenceö?
Here's an idea -- how about a one-shot cap-ship killer ship, available only in the militia LP stores, that cannot leave the system where it's purchased? (No jump drive or ability to use stargates.)
It would need to be hella expensive, ya. But THAT would give the militia a structural advantage over the alliances, in the FW zones only. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:18:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ammoina on 22/06/2008 07:19:41
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt CCP said that they didn't allow alliances to join FW to stop them from just taking it over - but isn't that just what we are seeing here?
No. The Alliances are coming in and fighting over the moons. They're not coming in to fight the factional warfare war. They're fighting their own war. Likewise the Alliances are also coming to black-rise to pirate and to fight the targets that present themselves. Just like they do elsewhere in low-sec and 0.0. Being in a militia doesn't make you immune to that.
So no, the Alliances are not joining FW and taking it over. And no, CCP should not step in and stop what is currently occurring.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nick Faulkner
I witnessed the battle from my pod and it seems that without proper leadership even 100 militia ships cannot do much damage to alliance fleets. I wonder how the Caldari milita managed to take out the RA carriers recently.
The <RED> carrier pilots underestimated the T1 noob blob. Didn't take them seriously. Expected them to haul ass at the sight of one carrier, let alone three. The noobs, not knowing any better and perhaps led by either an alt of an experienced PvPer or even by an experienced PvP main looking to try something different with FW, destroyed the three carriers with sheer strength of numbers. When you've got nearly 200 drakes and caracals you can do quite a bit of damage.
Now, though, the 0.0 alliances are taking the noob blobs seriously and they're approaching them like a 'real' fleet. Sucks to be an FW player camping gates that 0.0 entities need for their logistics. Maybe you guys should actually play the FW content... you know, the plexes and contested system objectives and missions and stuff? ...probably lose less ships to real fleets that way.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:45:00 -
[29]
Awesome. I wasnt there this time since I was capturing plexes, but I guess the lag would have been so bad anyway that you wouldnt have seen much. --- Its dead, Jim.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 07:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Havohej on 22/06/2008 07:58:54
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt CCP said that they didn't allow alliances to join FW to stop them from just taking it over - but isn't that just what we are seeing here?
Yes, people will say sandbox etc etc and they are right, but while in theory militias could combat any alliance doing this û alliances, by game design, are simply better structurally to fight a war than a militia can ever be. Militia realistically can not get its entire force organized for operations, they can not control who joins, they can not prevent spying etc while alliances can.
I stopped reading at this point. You really have no idea wtf is going on in this game at all. I'll explain it.
FW was born because a small percentage of the playerbase, needing no help or hand-holding from CCP, went out to 0.0 and forged their internet spaceship destinies. Most of the playerbase stayed in highsec crying about how they'd get blown up if they did anything other than farm ISK to buy PvP ships that they'd never use 'cause they're afraid to go to lowsec or 0.0 and actually do something. Those players smacked endlessly about empire wardec corps, lowsec gate campers and just about anything and everything else in the game that could blow up their pixels. There was a great disturbance in the bandwidth, as if 200,000 voices cried out in whine threads and then were silenced by "lol go back 2 wow" posts. (look at my corp name for maximum effect at this point)
So CCP devs said "How do we make these chumps pvp?" and the answer was right there in front of them: lol go back 2 wow..... back 2 wow.... 2 wow.... wow. In World of Warcraft, there are battlegrounds and arenas. If you participate in these things, you earned points, with which you could buy special stuff to use in pvp - so-called "epic" weapons and such. You would also get ranks. Once upon a time, it was stuff like Grunt, Lieutenant, General, Chuck Norris. Now it's stuff like "Gladiator" and such. It all sounds very impressive, I assure you. Many of the WoW players who play battlegrounds and arena don't do any other PvP at all. they don't raid enemy faction cities or anything like that very often... when they do, they do it in huge groups, anything over 50 is considered acceptable (caldari 80 caracal blob strikes into the heart of gallente highsec?).
They're only PvPing at all because blizzard is holding their hands saying, "We want you to do this, we will give you stuff".
Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface, the CSM carebear who suddenly likes PvP since she can get ranks and stuff. Only because CCP decided to hold your hands. Oh, and let's not forget these new lolfaction cruisers. Faction Osprey with no remote shield repping bonus ftw? Heh...
Now some gallente idiot posts about how all the 0.0 alliances had better get their POSes off of the moons in black rise or else all the FW noobs are going to destroy them? Really?
Originally by: General StarScream - Gallente - Empyrean Gallente From 20/6. Every singel (Alliance)/Corp-(not in any of the factions)
That has a pos in Blackrise region, will be infiltrated,Destroyed. Tanted <---. and made fun of on the fourmz for lolz.
You are taking our birth right to fight over thees systems vs the Evil Caldri, and the overpowerd Amarrs.
si habla del rio el loco torro, you are to take down your posses, and withdraw for the region.
if action is not taken, we will not only destory they pos, but allso your hole allaiance/corp.
so let it be known, If you are to own a pos in Blackrise, you have to be in a faction, or you will die.
And now you want CCP to hold your hand and stop the big, bad 0.0 PvPers from interfering in your noobwars?
gb2wow.
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SpaceSavage
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:12:00 -
[31]
Yea, that was fun.
GF Gallente, Caldari and RA.
See you all again soon.
_______________
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Was more thinking about this bit below - unless there was something not reported like an aggressive act by the FW fleet
Its low-sec. There doesn't need to be one. Besides, the FW fleets are made up of random individuals not operating under any kind of code of conduct or rules of engagement. They should all be considered targets to be fired upon immediately.
Quote:
Originally by: Nick Faulkner A large Executive Outcomes (EXE) fleet jumps in with a few capitals. Numbers of locals increase to 200 and we started getting lagged. A very organized EXE fleet massacres the unorganized FW fleet at the gate in Tama.
Originally by: Ammoina Likewise the Alliances are also coming to black-rise to pirate and to fight the targets that present themselves. Just like they do elsewhere in low-sec and 0.0. Being in a militia doesn't make you immune to that.
I think my response handled it nicely. Next you're going to tell me that Star Fraction shouldn't be allowed to rain on the FW parade either?
Quote: True but isn't that just what CCP didn't want? Otherwise I can't see why they would not allow alliances to join up - if they are using captials vs FW fleets (again the report doesn't say what started it so we don't know why) anyway, then just let them join up like anyone else.
Why join up? Why not just shoot all the militias? Joining FW means picking a side and fighting for that side. Setting up shop in Black-Rise and pirating on the Militias just means exactly that. It means you're not 'in FW', you're just killing targets.
Quote: Remember the intention was to encourage a greater population into PvP by giving them a lowsec war but with a highsec base - they can do that if they fight their war targets but will take too much of a security hit if they have to mass fleet fight "neutrals" that most likely don't care too much for sec rateing anyhow.
Um. How does an alliance shooting you up deprive you of a hi-sec base or a low-sec war? As far as the sec status thing, if someone shoots your militia mates you should be able to return fire on the offending corporation without getting a negative sec hit. I don't know how it currently works, but that is how it should work. In fact I'd imagine it doesn't work like that at the moment. But it should.
Quote: A couple of ways to limit this could be to increase standing hits for neutrals attacking FW (govts don't like independants interfering with their forces or for faction ceo's (ie CCP) to declare war on the alliance involved - faction captials guarding hisec anyone lol.
Would just make for dead faction capitals. Regardless Concord manages sec status, and they don't have any extra special concern if you shoot up militias. In fact from a rp perspective I'd almost suspect that they'd encourage it. The militias are a threat to their power, role and in fact their existence shows the decreasing effectiveness of Concord.
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 22/06/2008 07:58:54
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt CCP said that they didn't allow alliances to join FW to stop them from just taking it over - but isn't that just what we are seeing here?
Yes, people will say sandbox etc etc and they are right, but while in theory militias could combat any alliance doing this û alliances, by game design, are simply better structurally to fight a war than a militia can ever be. Militia realistically can not get its entire force organized for operations, they can not control who joins, they can not prevent spying etc while alliances can.
I stopped reading at this point. You really have no idea wtf is going on in this game at all. I'll explain it.
....rant....
And now you want CCP to hold your hand and stop the big, bad 0.0 PvPers from interfering in your noobwars?
gb2wow.
Perhaps you should have read a bit further - like the next post where I say if CCP do not want to limit FW then alliances should be allowed into FW as currently the militias are too restricted to respond effectively.
When the mechanisms for FW were announced I thought ôyeah right û mission runners are just going to do a few FW fleets and suddenly want to pvp normally? What a load of *******sö
But IÆve since been in a few FW actions and have seen longtime missioners actually say what CCP said they would say û pvp is a blast and what the hell itÆs only a ship and have then fly back repeatedly for more deaths usually lol.
I donÆt care if FW exists as such û its just another part of the game which affects me as much as exploration does (and IÆm not sure why you are so angry about it existing û just ignore it) but I will admit I can now see CCPs thinking can work and IÆm not arrogant enough (just) to think that only "big, bad 0.0 PvPers" can ever pvp effectively.
If CCPs ideas play out then FW will be a great stepping stone to the 0.0 wasteland that is for some FWers and an end in itself for others. Whats the stats 80-90% of Eve do not pvp?
So I hope FW succeeds.
gb2therapy ---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:29:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Whats the stats 80-90% of Eve do not pvp?
And you grabbed that stat from where? Your ass?
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Havohej stuff
I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Yes, FW is filled with noobs that you may despise, but it will bring tons of players into 0.0 with time. Its good for the game if the population increases. 0.0 residents whine about empire dwellers just doing missions and mining, well, now they are trying some blob warfare. Its a start.
I dont agree with "ofcourse Imanalt" that alliances will take over faction warfare. I dont see them having much interest in fighting for nothing.
--- Its dead, Jim.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt stuff
Point ---------(woosh)------> Your head.
I don't care about existence of FW itself. If I weren't busy trying to help build an alliance that will actually be worth something within the next six months, I would pull my corp out of 0.0 to fight for the Tribal Whosawhutzits Minmatar guys. I like the idea of it in general.
What I don't like is that fact that it took CCP holding your hands to get the bulk of the FW participants to play the damn game - you know, associate with other people, go to lowsec and pvp, pvp in a wardec ('cause that's all it really is when you get right down to the meat and potatoes of it - you join a war dec, except each side has NPC help in highsec). I find that part disgusting.
I also don't like the fact that you're already calling for MORE CCP hand-holding in the form of "don't let the big bad 0.0 wolf hotdrop capital fleets on us no more " when you were all so proud of yourselves just days ago for killing a few carriers and putting a POS into reinforced in lowsec.
Stop looking for CCP to play the game for you. You beat your chests about how FW players aren't a complete joke and can stand up to anything, right? That's all we've been reading about all week - the uberness of the FW blobs. Welp. You called down the thunder, well now you got it.
I said nothing of the FW blob's effectiveness, either. Any blob will be effective against other blobs until met by a larger and/or more organized blob. But don't you for one minute think that all it takes to survive in 0.0 is a blob of caracals and drakes or even carriers on a gate - FW doesn't teach noobs and empire carebears the first thing about living in lowsec, let alone 0.0.
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ammoina
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Whats the stats 80-90% of Eve do not pvp?
And you grabbed that stat from where? Your ass?
It's a question mark - see the ? - I saw a dev post somewhere about proportion of people living in 0.0 and low sec vs high sec - couldn't remember the proportion but it was high enough to make me remember it - hence the ? as in ..."80-90 is it?' ---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 08:59:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Havohej stuff
I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Yes, FW is filled with noobs that you may despise, but it will bring tons of players into 0.0 with time. Its good for the game if the population increases. 0.0 residents whine about empire dwellers just doing missions and mining, well, now they are trying some blob warfare. Its a start.
I dont agree with "ofcourse Imanalt" that alliances will take over faction warfare. I dont see them having much interest in fighting for nothing.
I didn't say anything about despising noobs. Noobs are fine. What I despise are the pussies who needed CCP to hold their hands to get them to go talk to each other and maybe lose a ship to some "PKer scum" in lowsec or in an empire war and now they smack on the forums about it and beat their chests like they've done something. It's a start, that's absolutely right. You know that, and I know that, but to hear these guys tell it, you'd think they captured NOL.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt It's a question mark - see the ? - I saw a dev post somewhere about proportion of people living in 0.0 and low sec vs high sec - couldn't remember the proportion but it was high enough to make me remember it - hence the ? as in ..."80-90 is it?'
Right so, your ass then. Said 'dev post' (and econ blog) talked about characters, not players. 4 of my 6 characters live in hi-sec. 1 of the 6 goes between hi, low and 0.0 and the last lives only in low and 0.0 (mmmmmm -10 goodnes). I guess according to that survey of six characters 66% of people don't engage in pvp right?
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ammoina
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt It's a question mark - see the ? - I saw a dev post somewhere about proportion of people living in 0.0 and low sec vs high sec - couldn't remember the proportion but it was high enough to make me remember it - hence the ? as in ..."80-90 is it?'
Right so, your ass then. Said 'dev post' (and econ blog) talked about characters, not players. 4 of my 6 characters live in hi-sec. 1 of the 6 goes between hi, low and 0.0 and the last lives only in low and 0.0 (mmmmmm -10 goodnes). I guess according to that survey of six characters 66% of people don't engage in pvp right?
Because everybody has 6 accounts.
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:11:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Ofcourse Imanalt on 22/06/2008 09:14:27
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt stuff
What I don't like is that fact that it took CCP holding your hands to get the bulk of the FW participants to play the damn game - you know, associate with other people, go to lowsec and pvp, pvp in a wardec ('cause that's all it really is when you get right down to the meat and potatoes of it - you join a war dec, except each side has NPC help in highsec). I find that part disgusting.
Well CCP think otherwise and the history of the game shows otherwise (notice no stats) - but it's true that most players live hi sec yes? (or maybe not) It is an unfortunate character of games that people don't like to lose things and Eve is the only one that actually makes this real (ingame) so we'll just have to live with the fact that to get people out of hi-sec and into pvp Eve they will need hand-holding.
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt stuff
But don't you for one minute think that all it takes to survive in 0.0 is a blob of caracals and drakes or even carriers on a gate - FW doesn't teach noobs and empire carebears the first thing about living in lowsec, let alone 0.0.
I know what it takes and yes it isn't the current majority FW stuff but I think it does teach people - I've seen it in good FC fleets - they learn both the mechanics, the 'rules' and how to fit effectively (note I said the good FCs - ex 0.0 people I suspect on the whole). I was with the early on "FW will be pointless" crowd but having been in it I can see how it's working - think of it more as a filter and I'll be betting you'll be flying in the future with FW "graduates"....
....or it could all crash out and fail (doubt it) - but the principle is right. ---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Havohej Because everybody has 6 accounts.
Aren't you just the cutest little thing... there are 3 characters per account. Your typical low-sec/0.0 person has all three character slots turned on and running. Either as cyno alts, scout alts, market alts, spys, *insert purpose* and they normally reside in hi-sec. Where-ever the main happens to be. These numbers have been crunched before. I'll let you try and figure out how to crunch them for yourself. Suffice to say it doesn't matter since there are those who live in hi-sec and do plenty of PVP.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Well CCP think otherwise and the history of the game shows otherwise (notice no stats) - but it's true that most players live hi sec yes? (or maybe not)
Its a majority. But its not near 90%. I honestly don't remember and its probably changed somewhat since the last econ report. Figure 60% is closer to the truth.
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:22:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ammoina
Originally by: Havohej Because everybody has 6 accounts.
Your typical low-sec/0.0 person has all three character slots turned on and running. Either as cyno alts, scout alts, market alts, spys, *insert purpose* and they normally reside in hi-sec.
HA! - now whos pulling thing out of their arse (spell it right) - and it doesn't matter that your prob right ---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ammoina
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Well CCP think otherwise and the history of the game shows otherwise (notice no stats) - but it's true that most players live hi sec yes? (or maybe not)
Its a majority. But its not near 90%. I honestly don't remember and its probably changed somewhat since the last econ report. Figure 60% is closer to the truth.
I distinctly remember an 80 in those figures somewhere... you're giving the eve playerbase too much credit for bravery. And when most people mention how many characters they have, they're not talking about minimally trained utility alts - my industry director, for example, has 5 cyno alts, but that says nothing of his actual 3 characters.
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:27:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ofcourse Imanalt on 22/06/2008 09:32:09 Edited by: Ofcourse Imanalt on 22/06/2008 09:30:35
Originally by: Ammoina
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Well CCP think otherwise and the history of the game shows otherwise (notice no stats) - but it's true that most players live hi sec yes? (or maybe not)
Its a majority. But its not near 90%. I honestly don't remember and its probably changed somewhat since the last econ report. Figure 60% is closer to the truth.
75% and thats my final offer - pulling the Econ last 07 report to see but it's giving my eyeballs a hernia
Edit: from the report "Overall, 81% of pilots travelled to high-sec and/or low-sec only, and 19% travelled to zero-zero space." plus "At both peak hours and close to downtime, about 8% of pilots were located in zero-zero space, and 82% in low-sec and high-sec." I'm assuming thats online ones at the time - but doesn't say speciffically. hmmm - draw? ---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Havohej And when most people mention how many characters they have, they're not talking about minimally trained utility alts
Thats part of your problem. The Econ Report is talking about characters. Not players. Not accounts. Specifically they're talking about all those non-trained/minimally trained trade alts sitting in market hubs that do nothing but log in once a week to check prices for some transaction between two corp mates in 0.0 somewhere in order to make sure no one is getting cheated.
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Roguehalo
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:39:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/06/2008 09:41:19 Quote from Havohej :-
"Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface,"
If somedody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for plexing fleet' he struggles to get 20 replies.
If somebody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for combat mission deep into enemy territory'.......well you already seen the results of that.
We could care less about ranks and victory points.
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ammoina
Originally by: Havohej And when most people mention how many characters they have, they're not talking about minimally trained utility alts
Thats part of your problem. The Econ Report is talking about characters. Not players. Not accounts. Specifically they're talking about all those non-trained/minimally trained trade alts sitting in market hubs that do nothing but log in once a week to check prices for some transaction between two corp mates in 0.0 somewhere in order to make sure no one is getting cheated.
Econ again "During the last two weeks of Q4, a total of 6.85 million visits were made to solar systems by 252,000 characters. This means that about 210,000 characters stayed within the same system or were not accessed during this time. The characters that are not accessed or do not move between systems are most likely alternate characters for subscribers. We therefore assume that these jumps show us the movement of main characters on each subscription account and are therefore representative for the movement of the main population in EVE."
So even CCP don't actually know
Guess the Q2 report will show us ..... ---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:43:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Roguehalo Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/06/2008 09:41:19 Quote from Havohej :-
"Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface,"
If somedody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for plexing fleet' he struggles to get 20 replies.
If somebody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for combat mission deep into enemy territory'.......well you already seen the results of that.
We could care less about ranks and victory points.
Then why did it take NPC Faction Warfare (CCP hand-holding) to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Havohej
I don't care about existence of FW itself. If I weren't busy trying to help build an alliance that will actually be worth something within the next six months, I would pull my corp out of 0.0 to fight for the Tribal Whosawhutzits Minmatar guys. I like the idea of it in general.
Building an alliance is way more important that FW esp in early stage but do yourself a favour and try FW even briefly with an alt if you have a spare and can spare any time. When was the last time you flew a frigate in anger? (with at least some chance of surviving lol). Its been years for me and it was a blast.......beginning to sound like a CCP dev - sorry (still true tho)
Just don't be a FC yourself and get a good FC.
---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:56:00 -
[52]
Well, I was there as a neut. Was fun like hell seeing all that mess. Still, I don't understand why my poor tristan deserved the honor of being primaried.... :-)
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Roguehalo
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.06.22 09:57:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Roguehalo Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/06/2008 09:41:19 Quote from Havohej :-
"Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface,"
If somedody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for plexing fleet' he struggles to get 20 replies.
If somebody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for combat mission deep into enemy territory'.......well you already seen the results of that.
We could care less about ranks and victory points.
Then why did it take NPC Faction Warfare (CCP hand-holding) to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
It's very simple
FW is consensual........we signed up for it
Any time we like we can resign
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Econ again "During the last two weeks of Q4, a total of 6.85 million visits were made to solar systems by 252,000 characters. This means that about 210,000 characters stayed within the same system or were not accessed during this time. The characters that are not accessed or do not move between systems are most likely alternate characters for subscribers. We therefore assume that these jumps show us the movement of main characters on each subscription account and are therefore representative for the movement of the main population in EVE."
So even CCP don't actually know
Basically yeah they don't. What that does tell you is that the straight character percentage numbers don't tell you even close to the real story (ie, the 9%, 13% and 76%). By making some simple assumptions you can construct a probable distribution of accounts, but its just that assumptions. And those assumptions would involve more than just jumps made.
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Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Roguehalo
It's very simple
FW is consensual........we signed up for it
Any time we like we can resign
And um, by going into low-sec and putting yourself at risk by being blow up by *insert random pirate gang with better ships and organization than you* is now A-OK because you joined a NPC Militia corp full of random people instead of the NPC noob corp or a care-bear corp or etc... ?
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:04:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Havohej on 22/06/2008 10:05:04
Originally by: Roguehalo
Originally by: Havohej [ Then why did it take NPC Faction Warfare (CCP hand-holding) to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
It's very simple
FW is consensual........we signed up for it
Any time we like we can resign
That sounds like wardec's (leave the corp, drop the wardec), and lowsec (only shoot the flashy red outlaws so you don't take sec hits, go back to highsec when you want out), and 0.0 pvp (go back to highsec when you want out) to me. So, why did it take CCP hand-holding to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
EDIT: Ammonia beat me to the punch.
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Kaaii
PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: rgreat
Originally by: Nick Faulkner RA lost some battleships but...
We lost 1 cyno Recon only.
Nerf Russia!
07
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Ofcourse Imanalt
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Roguehalo
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Roguehalo Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/06/2008 09:41:19 Quote from Havohej :-
"Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface,"
If somedody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for plexing fleet' he struggles to get 20 replies.
If somebody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for combat mission deep into enemy territory'.......well you already seen the results of that.
We could care less about ranks and victory points.
Then why did it take NPC Faction Warfare (CCP hand-holding) to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
It's very simple
FW is consensual........we signed up for it
Any time we like we can resign
Ok yeah - even I'm embarrassed by that answer.
To learn to pvp or to RP a war or to just get the added bonus of pveing with greater risks but please not just because you can resign at any time - Embrace the non-concent pvp part of Eve even if your not pvp seeking - it's what makes Eve so great.
So one point to Havohej - the ability to flip out like that is too much - but FW is still worthwhile overall
---------------------------------------------------------- Of course I'm an alt - knowledge wins wars ---------------------------------------------------------- |
Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:54:00 -
[59]
After the spanking that BOB gave RA and Goons they have obviously realised theyre not suited for 0.0 life so have returned to empire to fight easy targets.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:56:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Building an alliance is way more important that FW esp in early stage but do yourself a favour and try FW even briefly with an alt if you have a spare and can spare any time. When was the last time you flew a frigate in anger? (with at least some chance of surviving lol). Its been years for me and it was a blast.......beginning to sound like a CCP dev - sorry (still true tho)
Just don't be a FC yourself and get a good FC.
I'm sorry, I missed this post earlier somehow - didn't mean to ignore it. I LOVE flying frigates. I prefer them over anything else. I roam solo in Rifters and Wolfs all the time. Click my sig graphic and check out the blog if at all interested - lots of fun stuff in there imo, but look for A Tale of Two Logoffskis and Far And Wide specifically. My corp has a griefwatch killboard, this is my "Ships flown" stats:
Quote: Statistics (Ships Flown) 1: Stiletto [26] 2: Wolf [21] 3: Rifter [17] 4: Rupture [11] 5: Hurricane [6] 6: Jaguar [6] 7: Cyclone [4] 8: Stabber [4] 9: Claw [3] 10: Typhoon [3] 11: Cormorant [1] 12: Thrasher [1]
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Uzume Ame
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:15:00 -
[61]
If you get angry at people for doing whatever they want in this game you seriouslly need to get a life. Yeah I don't udnerstand for what do you want to grind iskies for life and never use them blowing stuff up, that's after all what this game is about (all is based around blowing ships & stuff), but I don't make a personal issue out of that.
Teh failure of a signature. |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:16:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Havohej on 22/06/2008 11:17:13 EDIT: nvm, I get it now
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Sparc Ambertin
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:19:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Nick Faulkner Edited by: Nick Faulkner on 22/06/2008 01:11:01 I witnessed the battle from my pod and it seems that without proper leadership even 100 militia ships cannot do much damage to alliance fleets. I wonder how the Caldari milita managed to take out the RA carriers recently.
Nah, leadership was fine at least with our fleet. Afair we did get the warning what was about to happen. But soon afterwards we got hit by massive lag. FC kept calling targets half of us didn't even see on overview. It me about 5(!) minutes to board my pod... another 5 minutes to actually reload the clone... shock:] -- "Don't laugh at the frigate, for he will laugh at you when his friends show up."
- Mercenary Frigates. |
gpfwestie
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Havohej stuff
You seem very upset that people are enjoying FW
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Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:47:00 -
[65]
OMG!111111
Carriers and battleships killing frigs and cruisers. OMG!
This must prove alliances are uber PvP l33t gurus.
Sorry... I give it 0/10
Empire people could if they wanted blow EXE etc away. But they fight FW to have fun, not to be uberleet epeen strokers. The main point with FW is not to lose so much so you can keep on fighting again and again. I¦m sure both EXE and RA lost more ISK wise than the milita(s). Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Augeas
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Posted - 2008.06.22 12:14:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Havohej stupid, whiny stuff
Dear Lord, these 0.0-bears are clueless. Here's an idea - leave your laughably inflated ego out in 0.0, along with your terrible politics, mind-numbing POS-warfare, soul-destroying logistics and pointless empty space. The last thing we need is lowsec being as terrible as 0.0.
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malcotch
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.22 12:29:00 -
[67]
I was there for both skirmishes, and what a fun evening it was. This is the whole point of FW is to enjoy yourself. No one is in ships that they cannot afford to loose.
We spent far too long on the Nouv. gate in Tama, which gave time for the Caldari to come up with an effective counter to us. We were getting very limited intelligence, we had a scout but we only got information about the WTs in Nouv and did not get informed about the Neuts and their ship types on the otherside of the gate.
When the battleships jumped in, there were no WT's which delayed the response from the Gallente militia. I helped destroy a battleship before following the order to warp out. Which was a tactical withdrawal under the circumstances.
After regrouping in Villore I joined another fleet. There were reports of Boromors Kessie fleet on the Villore gate in OMS. We took a back route to OMS to suprise them. There were reports that a smart bombing dominix jumped to them first. We soon followed and warped to their position. We destroyed the Caldari fleet with only a few losses!
Also the FW militias are organised, there are some very competent FC's around. You soon notice the difference when you are in one of their fleets. We are here to have fun and totally expect to loose our ships at some point so this encourages more reckless tactics at times which is quite enjoyable!!
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 14:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Shintai I¦m sure both EXE and RA lost more ISK wise than the milita(s).
RA lost one cyno recon i think, so i seriously doubt it. Isk wise the battle was a massive defeat for EXE, but only because of the carrier we lost to RA, who also killed quite a few of our battleships. The FW guys mainly flying t1 frigs so of course they couldn't lose much, but they couldn't kill much either. Some of them were flying t2 ships or battleships so their isk loss wasn't as small as you would think.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 15:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Havohej Now some gallente idiot posts about how all the 0.0 alliances had better get their POSes off of the moons in black rise or else all the FW noobs are going to destroy them? Really?
Originally by: General StarScream - Gallente - Empyrean Gallente From 20/6. Every singel (Alliance)/Corp-(not in any of the factions)
That has a pos in Blackrise region, will be infiltrated,Destroyed. Tanted <---. and made fun of on the fourmz for lolz.
You are taking our birth right to fight over thees systems vs the Evil Caldri, and the overpowerd Amarrs.
si habla del rio el loco torro, you are to take down your posses, and withdraw for the region.
if action is not taken, we will not only destory they pos, but allso your hole allaiance/corp.
so let it be known, If you are to own a pos in Blackrise, you have to be in a faction, or you will die.
If you knew who that guy is/was, you'd know people in FW saw that post and gave a collective
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 15:22:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Roguehalo Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/06/2008 09:41:19 Quote from Havohej :-
"Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface,"
If somedody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for plexing fleet' he struggles to get 20 replies.
If somebody in Nourvukaiken says 'x up for combat mission deep into enemy territory'.......well you already seen the results of that.
We could care less about ranks and victory points.
Then why did it take NPC Faction Warfare (CCP hand-holding) to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
It gives alot of those players a reason to fight. Not many carebears think 'hey look a corp, lets dec it!' is something worth doing.
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FluterEx
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Posted - 2008.06.22 15:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII After the spanking that BOB gave RA and Goons they have obviously realised theyre not suited for 0.0 life so have returned to empire to fight easy targets.
But that ppl wont be easy targets forever when they get mor organised and learn to fit their ships right for fleet battles. --------------------------------------- Only the dead have seen the end of war. |
Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:21:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Augeas
Originally by: Havohej stupid, whiny stuff
Dear Lord, these 0.0-bears are clueless. Here's an idea - leave your laughably inflated ego out in 0.0, along with your terrible politics, mind-numbing POS-warfare, soul-destroying logistics and pointless empty space. The last thing we need is lowsec being as terrible as 0.0.
Pointless? I thought that was the point of this game... Now I'm just a lifeless husk
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SpaceSavage
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:27:00 -
[73]
0.0 > Low sec.
Tbh, FW will never work as it was once intended, the thing is, Black Rise now does one thing, it provides people that can actually PVP a huge target rich environment. _______________
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:32:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Augeas
Originally by: Havohej stupid, whiny stuff
Dear Lord, these 0.0-bears are clueless. Here's an idea - leave your laughably inflated ego out in 0.0, along with your terrible politics, mind-numbing POS-warfare, soul-destroying logistics and pointless empty space. The last thing we need is lowsec being as terrible as 0.0.
Pointless? I thought that was the point of this game... Now I'm just a lifeless husk
Nah, it's not pointless. The noobs in this thread spewing that crap are the same social butterflies who needed CCP to take them by the hand and give them a reason to do anything other than farm ISK and spin their officer-fitted CNRs and faction-fitted Hulks in the station hangars. They haven't got the ability to think outside the "quest-chain" system of 'progression' employed by more common MMOs and make their own way in this fictitious internet space galaxy. They go through their L1, L2, L3 and finally L4 missions and when they realize that no new missions are forthcoming - there's no PvE "end game" - they just continue repeating the L4 missions over and over and over again, or they mine. Very, very rarely is one bold enough to risk their pixels on L5 missions in lowsec, but those who do have reached the absolute end of their capacity for voluntary risk. Anything more requires grand overtures on CCPs part in the form of hand-holding.
Now, a lot of them will deny this. I hold as proof the recent Aadi Grox incident, where one player used blue emotes to portray some fictional NPC character. This, naturally, led a large group of sheeple to think that he must be some manner of GM or ISD or other official CCP-sanctioned entity. Thinking that Papa CCP had arrived to take them gently by the hand, assuring them that everything was okay, they followed him deep into 0.0. Not just lowsec, no! Zero point Zero! And held by the likes of Pandemic Legion, one of today's "It" alliances at that!
As long as they have "the man" to hold their hand they'll do anything. As long as they need "the man" to hold their hand, they'll never really do anything.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:33:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Qaedel on 22/06/2008 16:34:02
Originally by: SpaceSavage
0.0 > Low sec.
Tbh, FW will never work as it was once intended, the thing is, Black Rise now does one thing, it provides people that can actually PVP a huge target rich environment.
You mean RA?
Anyway, the militia's will grow and mature. Let's see how many 0.0 alliances decide to drop caps in Black Rise in a month or so.
Edit: And how many caps actually get out.
Member of Noob Mercs. |
Radix Salvilines
ShockTroopers
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:35:00 -
[76]
setting up poses in warzones is risky... ban poses from militia warzones and big alliances will have no buisness here :)
Or make random npc spawns on the moons that can put the pos into reinforced :) ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥-☻BPINC☺-♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Radix Salvilines setting up poses in warzones is risky... ban poses from militia warzones and big alliances will have no buisness here :)
Or make random npc spawns on the moons that can put the pos into reinforced :)
Hold your hand even more?
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:51:00 -
[78]
Amazing really how stupid some people can be.
You'd think reading this mostly pointless bunch of posts that both FW and 0.0 are the best thing since sliced bread - neither side in this argument seems to have worked out that they're both wrong.
If you get into EVE, spend a few hours there, and come away having had fun, then mission accomplished. Why should anyone else give a rat's ass how you do that, or you care about their opinion?
EVE is a sandbox and single server for a reason; it caters to a vast number of different playstyles all of which get the additional fun of interacting with each other. To quote a line often used over in Ships and Modules 'there is no best'. Stop trying to out-prove each other that your style is better. No-one cares.
If FW gets people into PvP, all the better. If 0.0 gets woken up a bit and recruits more people, all the better. I still find it laughable that CCP provides a goal for high-sec people to go into low-sec, and the self-proclaimed elite (of the forums) still find reasons to complain and get angry, even though that's precisely what half of them have been whining about for months if not years. Methinks there's a hint in there somewhere (like if you get to the point of taking all of this personally and ranting and raving about carebears and CSM members as though you're on a soap-box, you might want some valium and perhaps some real life).
As for the topic, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that a badly-led, disorganised, and above all SP-low fleet gets wiped out by an organised alliance fleet. The 0.0 and low-sec alliances have experience, numbers, cash, and SP all behind them. Yet ironically they spent years complaining about low-SP new players not daring to set foot into low-sec. Can't imagine why... ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Havohej Hold your hand even more?
Because CCP never added any game content for 0.0, amirite?
Member of Noob Mercs. |
Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:54:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Radix Salvilines setting up poses in warzones is risky... ban poses from militia warzones and big alliances will have no buisness here :)
Or make random npc spawns on the moons that can put the pos into reinforced :)
The word sandbox comes to mind... Arbitrary rules are just that, arbitrary. Unfortunately, some arbitrary rules are now enshrined in EVE design; others get shouted down without noticing the other arbitrary rules lived by every day (sovereignty is the one that comes to mind that 0.0 players seem to ignore when complaining about new restrictions).
You could always go do FW on the Amarr/Minmatar side, where there are no new moons or space to control? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:01:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Qaedel
Originally by: Havohej Hold your hand even more?
Because CCP never added any game content for 0.0, amirite?
I'm not sure... maybe the expression "hand-holding" as I'm using it here doesn't translate well into your native language. By "holding you idiots' hands" I'm referring to having to create an entire expansion and utilize staffers to actively log into the game and lead you tools by the nose through scripted activities just to get you to use what was already there the whole time (that is, lowsec space, empire wars and PvP in general, not to mention gate camps and potentially - though not likely to be successful - moon mining).
When they add cosmos complexes and agents in space and new regions in 0.0, they don't have to have some ISD guy pop up in our space and type in blue text "O hai gais thar sum neu spaces over in dat reejunz etc u gais wan 2 come over thar an do - idk - stuffz? kthx!". We do it ourselves. We don't need the hand-holding.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:21:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Havohej When they add cosmos complexes and agents in space and new regions in 0.0, they don't have to have some ISD guy pop up in our space and type in blue text "O hai gais thar sum neu spaces over in dat reejunz etc u gais wan 2 come over thar an do - idk - stuffz? kthx!". We do it ourselves. We don't need the hand-holding.
Most of the militia members are only involved for the PvP. Anyone who thinks it's about mission running or whatever is an idiot, so your dramatization fails.
Oh, and all that content you listed that CCP added specifically for 0.0 actually is hand holding. Got it?
Member of Noob Mercs. |
Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:25:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Havohej By "holding you idiots' hands" I'm referring to having to create an entire expansion and utilize staffers to actively log into the game and lead you tools by the nose through scripted activities just to get you to use what was already there the whole time (that is, lowsec space, empire wars and PvP in general, not to mention gate camps and potentially - though not likely to be successful - moon mining).
Actually the original intent of the expansion when first discussed in dev blogs ages ago was to provide more roleplaying content for the likes of CVA et al. It seems over time to have mutated a little into a reason to get people into low-sec. If you don't believe that that was needed, I would suggest you spend a little time going through Features & Ideas and seeing all the discussions that occurred about why people weren't going into low-sec, ways to get them in, and learn a little about the game that you claim to be so expert in.
In short, convincing and getting people to go pew-pew and lose ships is a mental shift that some take to more easily than others. You clearly managed it easily. The same cannot be said for everyone. Add to that a security hit that means you're stuck ratting to get back into high-sec over time, and you've pretty much screwed the concept for some. EVE is a sandbox, you can't tell people how to play any more than I can. CCP had the sense to provide something that provided PvP, no sec status hit, and a reason to go lose some ISK. I don't call that hand-holding, I call that providing content to a majority. Some fools can call it WoW-ification if they want, but this isn't WoW, this is EVE and long may it stay that way.
Whilst I have respect for the 0.0 players (the ones that don't come in and pretend they're god's gift anyway), I would point out that the majority of EVE accounts has been shown to live in high-sec. It is only fair and appropriate that CCP cater to them occasionally. Adding carriers and titans etc. didn't do much for them apparently. Funnily enough the entire industry and market sector is still screaming for a decent expansion for them.
Oh and I'd like to see some actual evidence of CCP bringing in staff and coordinating FW fleets on a daily basis on Tranquility. Please provide suitable screenshots or links to them, or it didn't happen. Some idiot pretending to be them doesn't make it true, it just makes the fools that followed them look even more stupid. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:30:00 -
[84]
High sec players aren't afraid of losing ships. If FW has taught us anything, it's that.
Find a new reason for why players didn't join up with 0.0 alliances in masses. It may have something to do with the players themselves.
Member of Noob Mercs. |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:31:00 -
[85]
I was with the Kestrel Fleet that was holding in Nourv during the massacre. Many of us wanted to jump in just to see, but to his credit the FC convinced most of us to safe our one-shot disposable fleet for a more useful purpose (which was win, we ended up blowing up at least four different ships any one of which could have bought our whole fleet).
I know the Alliance guys maintain pretty good forum and diplomatic discipline, so we may never know, but I'm very curious why Executive Outcomes was there? They stomped the Gallente FW blob that we had baited onto the Nour gate in Tama, but was that the reason they came?
I figure the RA hotdrop was part of some ongoing dispute with Executive Outcomes, but I'm really curious whether Executive Outcomes was there to pound FW gangs or whether the Gallente (us, if it had happened sooner or later) were just an annoyance to be brushed aside. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
SpaceSavage
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:37:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Marlenus I was with the Kestrel Fleet that was holding in Nourv during the massacre. Many of us wanted to jump in just to see, but to his credit the FC convinced most of us to safe our one-shot disposable fleet for a more useful purpose (which was win, we ended up blowing up at least four different ships any one of which could have bought our whole fleet).
I know the Alliance guys maintain pretty good forum and diplomatic discipline, so we may never know, but I'm very curious why Executive Outcomes was there? They stomped the Gallente FW blob that we had baited onto the Nour gate in Tama, but was that the reason they came?
I figure the RA hotdrop was part of some ongoing dispute with Executive Outcomes, but I'm really curious whether Executive Outcomes was there to pound FW gangs or whether the Gallente (us, if it had happened sooner or later) were just an annoyance to be brushed aside.
We were in the neighbourhood so figured we'd pop into Tama and see whats up.
Doesnt matter if there were Gallente, Caldari or some other Random Corp/Alliance sitting on that gate (Although im pro-caldari...heh), we just figured we'd have some fun, i think the last count was about 82 kills on that Nourv gate hehe.
:)
The thing is, Blackrise is a like a lightbulb in a dark room attracting moths, FW provides plentiful targets and reasonably good fights whether your actually involved in FW or not. _______________
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Bapp
REUNI0N Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:42:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Bapp on 22/06/2008 17:42:28 unlucky EXE guys we were waiting for pirate ms in ranser, but.. few guys from gallente force call us for help
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Shgoratchx
Shgoratchx Transorbital
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:45:00 -
[88]
Quote: If you get into EVE, spend a few hours there, and come away having had fun, then mission accomplished. Why should anyone else give a rat's ass how you do that, or you care about their opinion?
Because the ones who do give a rats ass on how other people play Eve (like the 0.0 chest-beating monkey in this thread) take the GAME way too seriously. You can see the ones who have an ego problem a mile off. Its hilarious when you think about it, how someone can take internet spaceships so seriously that they can't comprehend the fact that other people play the game, as a game, for quick easy fun.
FW has brought that quick easy fun to the masses.
Who cares if some 0.0 "hardass" thinks its for carebear noobs who "need to be led by the hand"?
Who cares if it took CCP to implement an artificial gimick to get more people into low-sec?
Those 15,000 players who're currently having a blast under whichever banner they fly under certainly don't... they're too busy having fun.
So grow up you 0.0 "hardasses" and go play your little empire building game out in 0.0, go enjoy your enthralling POS warfare sieges, and continue to get stressed out over your make-believe 0.0 politics. Leave the rest of us to play shoot-em-ups in our T1 frigs, and have a blast doing it
ITS A GAME!
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:52:00 -
[89]
Every time I hear "the majority of players live in high-sec" and people quote a certain report, it makes me cringe. While it is very well true that the majority of people live there, saying "a snapshot of the location of players right before downtime" is not the same as saying, "this is how many people live there."
Now, on the topic at hand, go RA.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:56:00 -
[90]
Thank you to SpaceSavage and Bapp for satisfying my curiosity! It was awesome (in the literal sense of the word) to hear the scout reports in fleet chat of the carnage on the other side of the gate. And it's the first time I've heard our normally-decisive fleet commander in a dither trying to decide what to do.
I think in hindsight we should have probably waited for the perfect moment and then jumped into Tama as a 150-man ninja-salvage blob. But then, I'm the CEO of Ironfleet Towing And Salvage, I would think that. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.06.22 17:57:00 -
[91]
If CCP don't want alliances meddling in the FW they can just impose drastic security drops to -10 for even looking at an FW guy wrong.
What are these alliances doing there to begin with, is there nothing better to do in 0.0?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Ammoina
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:01:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus What are these alliances doing there to begin with, is there nothing better to do in 0.0?
Just spreading the love around
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Commander Law
Empyrean Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:12:00 -
[93]
Its good for them to do such attacks, and from the km, it dont look like Gal nor cald got any big losses.
ExE came out as the loser, and they will pay for there MIndless attack on the Gal Fed. Lucky Ra was able to save the day.
And its very good for big alliance to attack the fw fleets, since those in Fw will learn alot fighting vs someone whom is alot better.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:21:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Qaedel
Originally by: Havohej When they add cosmos complexes and agents in space and new regions in 0.0, they don't have to have some ISD guy pop up in our space and type in blue text "O hai gais thar sum neu spaces over in dat reejunz etc u gais wan 2 come over thar an do - idk - stuffz? kthx!". We do it ourselves. We don't need the hand-holding.
Most of the militia members are only involved for the PvP. Anyone who thinks it's about mission running or whatever is an idiot, so your dramatization fails.
Oh, and all that content you listed that CCP added specifically for 0.0 actually is hand holding. Got it?
In Federate Gallente, hand holds you?
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:23:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus If CCP don't want alliances meddling in the FW they can just impose drastic security drops to -10 for even looking at an FW guy wrong.
What are these alliances doing there to begin with, is there nothing better to do in 0.0?
Moons, logistics and humiliating all of the chest-beating sheeple who think they're uber because they finally learned how to form a blob (now that CCP has taken them by the hand to motivate them). I've seen you around for a while, I know you already know the answers to your questions.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:32:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Havohej humiliating all of the chest-beating sheeple who think they're uber because they finally learned how to form a blob (now that CCP has taken them by the hand to motivate them).
Because looking down on people is of course a great way to promote discourse and doesn't make you look like an arrogant know-it-all at all....
Then again, you're busy making lots of people look down on you, so why should I suggest you stop now whilst you're ahead... ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:36:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Havohej In Federate Gallente, hand holds you?
How are the 10/10 complexes, btw?
Member of Noob Mercs. |
SpaceSavage
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Commander Law Its good for them to do such attacks, and from the km, it dont look like Gal nor cald got any big losses.
ExE came out as the loser, and they will pay for there MIndless attack on the Gal Fed. Lucky Ra was able to save the day.
And its very good for big alliance to attack the fw fleets, since those in Fw will learn alot fighting vs someone whom is alot better.
LOL _______________
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:40:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Shgoratchx
Who cares if some 0.0 "hardass" thinks its for carebear noobs who "need to be led by the hand"?
You do, else why would you be posting about it and calling us "hardasses" as if that's supposed to make us feel bad?
Originally by: Shgoratchx
So grow up you 0.0 "hardasses" and go play your little empire building game out in 0.0, go enjoy your enthralling POS warfare sieges, and continue to get stressed out over your make-believe 0.0 politics. Leave the rest of us to play shoot-em-ups in our T1 frigs, and have a blast doing it
ITS A GAME!
Your T1 frigs, and cruisers, and BCs, and BSs, and T2 frigs and T2 cruisers and T2 BCs and even capital ships now from what I've seen on the killboards.
Yes, IT'S A GAME! We'll build our own little empires while you pretend to defend 'your own'... I say pretend because it's not 'your own', it's the one CCP created and which you've adopted because you don't have the wherewithal to forge your own.
Mind you, there are alliances even in 0.0 that don't have the wherewithal, alliances that exist only to feed the coffers of their betters, who aren't even bothering to build toward anything of their own and they're just as laughable - only it's not CCP holding their hands, it's the stronger players... but the end result is the same.
All of you muppets keep making it out as if I'm talking about the pros and cons of FW vs. 0.0 Alliance life. I haven't posted a pro of con about either of those things once yet in this thread - I've posted that you're all sheep and needed CCP to hold your hand and lead you by the nose to the game that was there the whole time. Co-operative PvP. I also said earlier (idk if it was a couple pages back in this thread, or in a similar thread here in GD) that as a roleplayer-type myself (V:tM ftw!!!) if I wasn't busy helping to build an alliance I'd have my corp in the Minmatar FW in a heartbeat... but I haven't the time - while you're blobbing each other in lowsec to protect or capture some contrived CCP objective, I'll be fighting for billions of my own ISK and hundreds of my own in-game hours spent over the last few months (and on-going). The FW does look fun, but the thought of one day being as big and e-important as goons or RA or BoB... well, okay, maybe not THAT big, but at least as big as smashkill in their prime!, that thought is too exciting to me as a gamer.
You guys keep saying that none of you care about the "lolmissions" or any of that crap - you joined FW just for PvP. Well, if that's the case then you argue my point FOR me. You wanted PvP to begin with, but you didn't go do it. You didn't make friends, you didn't go to lowsec, you didn't do any of it. But CCP grabs your hands and there's suddenly a 200-ship blob. I don't care about your choice of playstyles, I just enjoy pointing out your sheep-ness.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:50:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Commander Law ExE came out as the loser, and they will pay for there MIndless attack on the Gal Fed. Lucky Ra was able to save the day.
/facepalm - you're really not helping, you know ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
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Johncrab
XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.06.22 18:52:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Havohej endless angry comments at FW so called noobs
Common, give it a break. There are stupid people everywhere, highsec, losec, 0.0, big corps, small corps, alliances and FW. Hell, you even seem to be one of them. Just relax and enjoy your time here, others are trying to do the same. |
Astria Tiphareth
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Posted - 2008.06.22 19:26:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Havohej I've posted that you're all sheep and needed CCP to hold your hand and lead you by the nose to the game that was there the whole time. Co-operative PvP. I also said earlier (idk if it was a couple pages back in this thread, or in a similar thread here in GD) that as a roleplayer-type myself (V:tM ftw!!!) if I wasn't busy helping to build an alliance I'd have my corp in the Minmatar FW in a heartbeat... but I haven't the time - while you're blobbing each other in lowsec to protect or capture some contrived CCP objective, I'll be fighting for billions of my own ISK and hundreds of my own in-game hours spent over the last few months (and on-going). The FW does look fun, but the thought of one day being as big and e-important as goons or RA or BoB... well, okay, maybe not THAT big, but at least as big as smashkill in their prime!, that thought is too exciting to me as a gamer.
That's the bit you're missing though - yes you find that exciting, sure, go for it - but not everyone does. There is no end-game in EVE which means people find their own end-game, whatever that may be. A roleplayer choosing to become a superior FW FC can just as happily choose that as a goal and be happy.
You're also claiming that contrived stuff like FW doesn't happen in 0.0. BoB spends ages in POS warfare and sovereignty fights, which are entirely arbitrary targets set by CCP. So don't have all this talk of sheep or I'll start about how you followed CCP's advice like sheep to go out to 0.0 and make a name for yourself. Neither is accurate or fair.
Finally, you're missing the point about organisations like BoB etc. To aspire to be like them is your choice, and to achieve what they have achieved is worthy of some respect. Ultimately however, you're never going to beat the perception by high-sec players that it's a bunch of hardcore players out in 0.0 doing stuff they don't care about. Being a member of a 0.0 alliance does not convey much respect - respect as they say is earned, particularly in places like these forums. It's small wonder that arguments break out between 0.0 and high-sec players when this is not remembered, because the two playstyles are dramatically different, but both are equally valid.
I'll happily debate with someone from RA, or Tri, or BoB, or you, because ultimately my opinion is just as valid as theirs or yours. Experience doesn't make you right, it merely gives you more knowledge. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Jeanne D'Eve
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.22 19:30:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Havohej
Your T1 frigs, and cruisers, and BCs, and BSs, and T2 frigs and T2 cruisers and T2 BCs and even capital ships now from what I've seen on the killboards.
Yes, IT'S A GAME! We'll build our own little empires while you pretend to defend 'your own'... I say pretend because it's not 'your own', it's the one CCP created and which you've adopted because you don't have the wherewithal to forge your own.
Mind you, there are alliances even in 0.0 that don't have the wherewithal, alliances that exist only to feed the coffers of their betters, who aren't even bothering to build toward anything of their own and they're just as laughable - only it's not CCP holding their hands, it's the stronger players... but the end result is the same.
All of you muppets keep making it out as if I'm talking about the pros and cons of FW vs. 0.0 Alliance life. I haven't posted a pro of con about either of those things once yet in this thread - I've posted that you're all sheep and needed CCP to hold your hand and lead you by the nose to the game that was there the whole time. Co-operative PvP. I also said earlier (idk if it was a couple pages back in this thread, or in a similar thread here in GD) that as a roleplayer-type myself (V:tM ftw!!!) if I wasn't busy helping to build an alliance I'd have my corp in the Minmatar FW in a heartbeat... but I haven't the time - while you're blobbing each other in lowsec to protect or capture some contrived CCP objective, I'll be fighting for billions of my own ISK and hundreds of my own in-game hours spent over the last few months (and on-going). The FW does look fun, but the thought of one day being as big and e-important as goons or RA or BoB... well, okay, maybe not THAT big, but at least as big as smashkill in their prime!, that thought is too exciting to me as a gamer.
You guys keep saying that none of you care about the "lolmissions" or any of that crap - you joined FW just for PvP. Well, if that's the case then you argue my point FOR me. You wanted PvP to begin with, but you didn't go do it. You didn't make friends, you didn't go to lowsec, you didn't do any of it. But CCP grabs your hands and there's suddenly a 200-ship blob. I don't care about your choice of playstyles, I just enjoy pointing out your sheep-ness.
You are so typical of many who post on this forum. You and those like you all know how everyone should be playing this game. You must think you were the first to find PvP. I found the internet in 1992, when it was all text based and most people had dial-up connections. There was email, ftp and telnet and we played MUDs on telnet. And there were PvP MUDs which I played. And when graphics arrived around 1995 there was Meridian59 and then UO, both PvP and I played them too. And more recently I've done it on WoW. So don't presume to know what I need or how I should play EVE with my money. An earlier poster suggested you keep quiet to hide your ignorance. It was good advice.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.06.22 20:04:00 -
[104]
Originally by: IHearULiek Mudkipz I thought the militias were leet though and could pwn the big alliances?
Seems the thread spamming triumphalism of last weeks militas was a trifle previous.
SKUNK
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 22:29:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Radix Salvilines setting up poses in warzones is risky... ban poses from militia warzones and big alliances will have no buisness here :)
Or make random npc spawns on the moons that can put the pos into reinforced :)
Believe it or not we were not there for a moon, and neither were RA methinks.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.23 00:59:00 -
[106]
lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?). hi5 EXE for going to gank those muppets and for sticking around for the fight with RA after. An alliance mate was in the area with a neutral alt and saw a good deal of the action, I wish he would've fraps'd it
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:25:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Havohej lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?). hi5 EXE for going to gank those muppets and for sticking around for the fight with RA after. An alliance mate was in the area with a neutral alt and saw a good deal of the action, I wish he would've fraps'd it
Great. Can you go back to irrelevant anonymity now.
Member of Noob Mercs. |
Bomberos
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:36:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Qaedel
Originally by: Havohej lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?). hi5 EXE for going to gank those muppets and for sticking around for the fight with RA after. An alliance mate was in the area with a neutral alt and saw a good deal of the action, I wish he would've fraps'd it
Great. Can you go back to irrelevant anonymity now.
ouch
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:41:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Bomberos
Originally by: Qaedel
Originally by: Havohej lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?). hi5 EXE for going to gank those muppets and for sticking around for the fight with RA after. An alliance mate was in the area with a neutral alt and saw a good deal of the action, I wish he would've fraps'd it
Great. Can you go back to irrelevant anonymity now.
ouch
Yeah, vicious burn amirite? Better than being another noob in an irrelevant blob, tbh.
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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Funkcikle
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:50:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Havohej Edited by: Havohej on 22/06/2008 07:58:54
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt CCP said that they didn't allow alliances to join FW to stop them from just taking it over - but isn't that just what we are seeing here?
Yes, people will say sandbox etc etc and they are right, but while in theory militias could combat any alliance doing this û alliances, by game design, are simply better structurally to fight a war than a militia can ever be. Militia realistically can not get its entire force organized for operations, they can not control who joins, they can not prevent spying etc while alliances can.
I stopped reading at this point. You really have no idea wtf is going on in this game at all. I'll explain it.
FW was born because a small percentage of the playerbase, needing no help or hand-holding from CCP, went out to 0.0 and forged their internet spaceship destinies. Most of the playerbase stayed in highsec crying about how they'd get blown up if they did anything other than farm ISK to buy PvP ships that they'd never use 'cause they're afraid to go to lowsec or 0.0 and actually do something. Those players smacked endlessly about empire wardec corps, lowsec gate campers and just about anything and everything else in the game that could blow up their pixels. There was a great disturbance in the bandwidth, as if 200,000 voices cried out in whine threads and then were silenced by "lol go back 2 wow" posts. (look at my corp name for maximum effect at this point)
So CCP devs said "How do we make these chumps pvp?" and the answer was right there in front of them: lol go back 2 wow..... back 2 wow.... 2 wow.... wow. In World of Warcraft, there are battlegrounds and arenas. If you participate in these things, you earned points, with which you could buy special stuff to use in pvp - so-called "epic" weapons and such. You would also get ranks. Once upon a time, it was stuff like Grunt, Lieutenant, General, Chuck Norris. Now it's stuff like "Gladiator" and such. It all sounds very impressive, I assure you. Many of the WoW players who play battlegrounds and arena don't do any other PvP at all. they don't raid enemy faction cities or anything like that very often... when they do, they do it in huge groups, anything over 50 is considered acceptable (caldari 80 caracal blob strikes into the heart of gallente highsec?).
They're only PvPing at all because blizzard is holding their hands saying, "We want you to do this, we will give you stuff".
Same for the carebears and noobs in FW right now. They're only doing it so they can get ranks like anksunawhatsherface, the CSM carebear who suddenly likes PvP since she can get ranks and stuff. Only because CCP decided to hold your hands. Oh, and let's not forget these new lolfaction cruisers. Faction Osprey with no remote shield repping bonus ftw? Heh...
Now some gallente idiot posts about how all the 0.0 alliances had better get their POSes off of the moons in black rise or else all the FW noobs are going to destroy them? Really?
Originally by: General StarScream - Gallente - Empyrean Gallente From 20/6. Every singel (Alliance)/Corp-(not in any of the factions)
That has a pos in Blackrise region, will be infiltrated,Destroyed. Tanted <---. and made fun of on the fourmz for lolz.
You are taking our birth right to fight over thees systems vs the Evil Caldri, and the overpowerd Amarrs.
si habla del rio el loco torro, you are to take down your posses, and withdraw for the region.
if action is not taken, we will not only destory they pos, but allso your hole allaiance/corp.
so let it be known, If you are to own a pos in Blackrise, you have to be in a faction, or you will die.
And now you want CCP to hold your hand and stop the big, bad 0.0 PvPers from interfering in your noobwars?
gb2wow.
This
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JonVe
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:59:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Shintai OMG!111111
Carriers and battleships killing frigs and cruisers. OMG!
This must prove alliances are uber PvP l33t gurus.
Sorry... I give it 0/10
Empire people could if they wanted blow EXE etc away. But they fight FW to have fun, not to be uberleet epeen strokers. The main point with FW is not to lose so much so you can keep on fighting again and again. I¦m sure both EXE and RA lost more ISK wise than the milita(s).
This is one awesome post.
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Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
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Posted - 2008.06.23 04:23:00 -
[112]
Want to keep large 0.0 alliances from interfering in FW? Simple... restrict all capital ships to 0.0. No more caps in low-sec.
That'll teach the bastards a lesson.
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Yarr2K
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.23 04:32:00 -
[113]
I guess the simple answer to the seeming n00bness on the FW fleets part is the fact that everyones in a laughably expendable ship and has that certain kamakazi attitude plus the they are all in it for the fun and could care less about kill/loss ratios and other such alliance e-peen dongels. Be patient guys. The n00bs will learn just like you alliance blokes did over time and will eventualy start blacking eyes much to the dismay of the 'pure' pvpers who snub thier noses at FW pvp.
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Qaedel
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.06.23 04:42:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Havohej Yeah, vicious burn amirite? Better than being another noob in an irrelevant blob, tbh.
Apparently it isn't, since you're here whining about FW.
Member of Noob Mercs. |
An Anarchyyt
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.23 04:47:00 -
[115]
Who the hell is Defi4nt anyway?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.23 05:00:00 -
[116]
The alliance thing should be self policing.
If one alliance is consistently dropping caps on top of FW fleets, it would be easy and sensible for an opposing alliance to put a char in the militia fleet and then hot drop the first alliance when they show up, and they'd have a huge blob of militia fodder on their side to help out.
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Sani Ka
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 06:41:00 -
[117]
so wait fw militias getting wiped out by alliance forces surprises anyone? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Tuberider
Pothouse Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.23 08:39:00 -
[118]
So obvious this was going to happen and its a shame ban all non militia's from combat zones
Three. Three. And we'd better not risk another frontal assault. That rabbit's dynamite |
Rhanna Khurin
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.23 09:12:00 -
[119]
Havohej, IU have read many of your posts but i may have missed some.
But i do have the feeling you think most people that started pvping at the start of Empyrean age as being complete noobs. Maybe this is correct, but from what i have heard from people in game is that they are generally oldish players that would like a bit of fun when they're bored of mining or whatever, or have made alts just to blast people for fun with care of being excluded from certain empires.
Many of them use it to express the roleplaying urges they have.
I really ca't remember my point at the moment, maybe someone else can salvage a reason for me posting out of this..
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.23 10:53:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 23/06/2008 10:57:55 lets see if I have this right.
1. Whine, Whine, Complain. Your not playing the game like I demand you to.
2. Whine, Whine, Complain. Your not going to tell me how to play my sandbox game.
3. Whine, Whine Complain. Both sides show small e-peens and beat on their chests.
- I pay my $60.00 a month to play this game as see fit. - You pay your $ each month to play this game as you see fit. - Are you intelligent enough to see where this is going? or do I have to hand hold you through it??
Ok let me hand hold you through it, because obviously the sacrilegious idea that anyone would dare play a game that they pay for, in the manner that they see fit, is just too much for you to grasp.
I pay MY money to play this game as I want to play this game. When YOU start paying for my accounts, then and only then, would you have any right at all to "suggest" that maybe I play in a different manner. Until then, do yourself a favor and stop trying to make an issue out of a non issue.
because all your doing is making yourself look like an idiot. I'm doubting you are, but your doing a great job at creating that impression.
Storm
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
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AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.23 11:55:00 -
[121]
Edited by: AltBier on 23/06/2008 12:07:36
Originally by: Ofcourse Imanalt Yes, people will say sandbox etc etc and they are right, but while in theory militias could combat any alliance doing this û alliances, by game design, are simply better structurally to fight a war than a militia can ever be. Militia realistically can not get its entire force organized for operations, they can not control who joins, they can not prevent spying etc while alliances can.
There is an important point here. No one has overall control of a milita.
For example, no one can set militia wide standings; each individual corp in the militia needs to do that, which almost certainly results in fleets with mixed standings. "Reds in system XYZ", "WHERE?!".
Originally by: Thorradin
Originally by: Havohej Then why did it take NPC Faction Warfare (CCP hand-holding) to get you to PvP, you social butterflies, you?
It gives alot of those players a reason to fight. Not many carebears think 'hey look a corp, lets dec it!' is something worth doing.
Indeed. Also I can't see any hand holding. FW just gives non-alliance players an in-game reason to fight. AltBier was in Red v Blue before joining FW. It's just fun.
Originally by: Havohej lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?).
You mean it's hard to explain something which makes no sense? I suppose it would be.
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Walt Anghir
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Posted - 2008.06.23 12:07:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Walt Anghir on 23/06/2008 12:11:19
Originally by: baltec1 the gal militia also warped in a force of some sort, engaged RA and got wiped out.
This was followed by a mass kessy swarm in old man star where alot of expencive gal ships were lost.
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3791 the fight
In short its all gone to hell
So I'm heading back towards Villore shortly before midnight and a huge Caldari fleet appears. Seeing some FW battles imminent I hang about and orbit the gate I zoom in close and find theres a growing crowd of ships biting at my heels. I start up fraps just in time for the Domi jumping into system. A Mega also comes in but decides to run for the gate just as the Domi explodes, watch the local count explode at that point. Domi interups congo practice
Then all hell breaks loose... Saturday nights alright for fighting
A damn entertaining battle from my POV though what with fraps and all going the fps did drop a bit.
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Walt Anghir
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Posted - 2008.06.23 12:15:00 -
[123]
Posting with FW alts ftw! After that show no doubt I'll be out at the weekend to help combat those kessies in my incursus!
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Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.06.23 12:36:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Havohej lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?). hi5 EXE for going to gank those muppets and for sticking around for the fight with RA after. An alliance mate was in the area with a neutral alt and saw a good deal of the action, I wish he would've fraps'd it
Bump for arrogant and bitter content. Live proof of FW success. Thanks again CCP.
-------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Cybele Lanier
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.23 12:48:00 -
[125]
It's good to see that you're all having fun. Just so long as you acknowledge that your fun is objectively inferior to my fun, which is the One True Way to play EVE. --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence." |
Le Cardinal
Aurea Flamma
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Posted - 2008.06.23 12:57:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Havohej lol trying to explain anything to you sheep is like watching the single conservative guest on the panel show with 3 liberal guests and a liberal moderator try to help the liberals understand even the simplest of points (Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, anyone?). hi5 EXE for going to gank those muppets and for sticking around for the fight with RA after. An alliance mate was in the area with a neutral alt and saw a good deal of the action, I wish he would've fraps'd it
Quote: Yes, IT'S A GAME! We'll build our own little empires while you pretend to defend 'your own'... I say pretend because it's not 'your own', it's the one CCP created and which you've adopted because you don't have the wherewithal to forge your own.
We? I dont see Def1ant on the map of soveregnity. I would assume at least, that a guy with your attitude and uberness, would have grabbed some land in 0.0. Especially since you talk so warm about it. After all your the cool kid in 0.0.
Ive lived all my 4.5 years in eve in 0.0. Seen a lot of fun there, roamed, ganked, been ganked, helped grabbing a portion of 0.0, defend it, lost it etc. Now i joined FW. Just to have fun, not cause i wanna feel uber. Granted my rl makes it hard for me to live in 0.0, but ive had a load of fun, and ive been part of it for a day or two.
Lots of ppl join in, either with mains or alts to be part of it. Talking about training grounds for 0.0 alliances? I wonder how many experienced players already have alts or second chars in the militia just to get away from pos warfare, pos hugging etc.
On another note. Militia pvp is about pure fun. You dont have to travel all around eve to pick fights, or sit camping entrypoints hour after hour. You undock, travel a couple of jumps, get some action etc.
Solving the problem with large alliances wanting to grab the moons is simple. Just remove all valuable moons But i guess the big boys would cry then, because us noobs want to be left alone.
Now crawl back into your box in 0.0 and be uber. Oh i forgot, you dont own space.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.06.23 13:12:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Ulstan The alliance thing should be self policing.
If one alliance is consistently dropping caps on top of FW fleets, it would be easy and sensible for an opposing alliance to put a char in the militia fleet and then hot drop the first alliance when they show up, and they'd have a huge blob of militia fodder on their side to help out.
From the report I figured that was what happened, EXE came in thinking they'd look tough and got RA dropped on them, or am I reading it wrong?
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Squably
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.23 14:05:00 -
[128]
nah it just means RA was gonna have a go at the FW ppl, but well they where to late n so they had to fight exe on the gate. Yeah so?!! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Xazeel
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Posted - 2008.06.23 15:23:00 -
[129]
So the Red Alliance and those Goon folks are supporting the Gallente? They seem to come running whenever the Gallente call for help so is that what this means? And are the EXE people fighting for the Caldari since they were killing the Gallente?
If so this seems pretty interesting although not real comforting considering as an Amarr FW pilot I was hoping some of the Caldari forces would come to help in our areas. There are just too many to fight and even though you can kill several times your number of FW targets they still have more spanning out and solo taking plexes. So without some more numbers I don't see how we can stem the loss of territory.
Anyway this sound fun I was just wondering if the Amarr/Caldari FW should be trying to support the EXE people... err whoever they are. Sorry just getting started in EVE heh.
Who are Goon and Red Alliance natural corp enemies?
This is very interesting even if it is bad news for the Amarr and the Caldari. :)
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Momochanchan
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:21:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Xazeel So the Red Alliance and those Goon folks are supporting the Gallente? They seem to come running whenever the Gallente call for help so is that what this means? And are the EXE people fighting for the Caldari since they were killing the Gallente?
If so this seems pretty interesting although not real comforting considering as an Amarr FW pilot I was hoping some of the Caldari forces would come to help in our areas. There are just too many to fight and even though you can kill several times your number of FW targets they still have more spanning out and solo taking plexes. So without some more numbers I don't see how we can stem the loss of territory.
Anyway this sound fun I was just wondering if the Amarr/Caldari FW should be trying to support the EXE people... err whoever they are. Sorry just getting started in EVE heh.
Who are Goon and Red Alliance natural corp enemies?
This is very interesting even if it is bad news for the Amarr and the Caldari. :)
More like caldari ****ed off the red anthill and a space french was kind enough to drop a cyno to hotdrop the caldari fleet, also another caldari fleet messed with their moon and you do not do that.
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