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Tyrantus
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:19:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
Never used TS before I started flying with the militia. Took me all of a minute to download and install and was talking shortly after.
Yeah, and it took me all of 15s to recover from the boot.ini fiasco. Guess it wasn't such a big deal afterall!
I missed all the boot.ini fun cause I always download the full install on patch day. Sometimes it sucks always thinking ahead. 
Quote:
Hint: the fact that some people do not have trouble using the more complicated form of communications doesn't change the fact that it is still more complicated and more prone to user confusion. Trying to get your fleets to download, install, run, configure, etc, TS is a needless form of confusion for your average new to PvP FW militia player. What's wrong with EVE voice? That's much easier to explain to new folks.
Eve is more complicated and prone to user confusion than other mmos. Should we tell everyone to go back to Wow? If you have someone in you fleet window linking the ts server addy and actively helping new joiners then it shouldn't be a problem to get players up to speed. Maybe certain FC need to get more organized? 
Member Of The 24th Imperial |
Karok Vilneram
First Caldari Regiment
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:23:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tyrantus
Eve is more complicated and prone to user confusion than other mmos. Should we tell everyone to go back to Wow? If you have someone in you fleet window linking the ts server addy and actively helping new joiners then it shouldn't be a problem to get players up to speed. Maybe certain FC need to get more organized?
Maybe thats why you get no help? Maybe thats why Boromor's fleets end up PWNING everything around (even carriers) because we can quickly organize fleets and we all use voice?
Action meet Reaction.
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Ranger 1
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:23:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/06/2008 20:26:08
In our alliance, and in most others, TS (or Vent) is required. You do not go on PVP ops without it running. On a similar note, TS is very easy to get running on most anyone's computer, and frankly TS servers can also be made to be very very secure as well.
That being said, it is ABSOLUTELY THE WRONG CHOICE FOR FW FLEETS.
You have to understand, FW fleets are not alliance fleets, you have a far more diversified group of players and corporations involved and far less opportunity to help individuals sort out any communication problems they may be having. Alliances form out of groups of like minded people and organizing TS or Vent communications is a much simpler task. FW groups need as simple and secure of a communication system as possible... and like it or not EVE Voice fits the bill.
You are correct in thinking TS and Vent have some advantages over EVE Voice (not many, but some), however they are an impractical solution for FW fleet use. Sorry if you don't like it, but thems the facts baby.
I have some difficulty believing that the main powers that be for the Amarr didn't realize this from the beginning. I can only assume that some of the larger corps involved decided the entire faction should go with the communication system that they were familiar themselves were already familiar with... without looking at the larger picture.
It boils down to this, if you want the Amarr faction fleets to be small groups of corps on the same TS server (along with a few loners) operating independently of each other with no assistance from the rest of the faction or its allies, keep right on insisting on TS or Vent use.
However if you want to generate significant momentum, bring organization to the entire factions combat operations, and keep the door open to their Caldari allies you will get over your hang ups about using EVE Voice. Use TS for your own internal crap. Use the simple, universal com system for combat operations.
This should be a no brainer folks.
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Victor Forge
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:31:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Rooker
To tell the truth, I would have loved to join DC's new corp, but, like most of the really good PVP corps on the Amarr side, it is "Amarr character / Amarr ship or gtfo". Not training an Amarr nub alt when my main has 25m sp, mostly pvp-related.
25 million sp or not. I can see why your main got turned down considering the amount of spies plaguing Amarr militia.
The question isnŠt if you have X amount of sp or not. The question is if you can be trusted?
Apparently they came to the conclusion that they couldnŠt trust you.
There are enough spies in already trying everything in their power to weaken any attempt for Amarr to orginaze and doing everything they can to drive away any Caldari help.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwaMHJzruDU&feature=related |
Tyrantus
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:32:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Tyrantus on 25/06/2008 20:34:07
Originally by: Karok Vilneram
Originally by: Tyrantus
Eve is more complicated and prone to user confusion than other mmos. Should we tell everyone to go back to Wow? If you have someone in you fleet window linking the ts server addy and actively helping new joiners then it shouldn't be a problem to get players up to speed. Maybe certain FC need to get more organized?
Maybe thats why you get no help? Maybe thats why Boromor's fleets end up PWNING everything around (even carriers) because we can quickly organize fleets and we all use voice?
Action meet Reaction.
Strange. I haven't made a single statement to the fact that fleets should only use TS. If your fleet wants to use eve voice go ahead, if you want to use Vent go ahead, if you want to use TS go ahead. I'm just saying that setting up ts or vent is rediculously easy to do and should not be the basis of an 'omg that fc wants me to use something other than eve voice therefore the entire FW fleet system is fail because I can't be arsed to learn how to tie my shoelaces'. Thats pretty much the vibe I'm getting here.
Oh and like I stated earlier in this thread we Amarr had no problems getting a bunch of admitted newbs to pvp of any sort quickley on ts and out killing several billions in isk of ships in our motley t1 cruiser gang. 
Member Of The 24th Imperial |
Qwert0
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:40:00 -
[66]
We just TRIED to help the Amarr today, in the time it took us to figure out what they were flying, their FC vanished, they lost a battleship to a nano gang, and their marauder quit. We then proceeded to roam caldari space because it wasn't worth the effort.
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Ranger 1
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:43:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/06/2008 20:43:57
Originally by: Tyrantus
Edited by: Tyrantus on 25/06/2008 20:34:07
Originally by: Karok Vilneram
Originally by: Tyrantus
Eve is more complicated and prone to user confusion than other mmos. Should we tell everyone to go back to Wow? If you have someone in you fleet window linking the ts server addy and actively helping new joiners then it shouldn't be a problem to get players up to speed. Maybe certain FC need to get more organized?
Maybe thats why you get no help? Maybe thats why Boromor's fleets end up PWNING everything around (even carriers) because we can quickly organize fleets and we all use voice?
Action meet Reaction.
Strange. I haven't made a single statement to the fact that fleets should only use TS. If your fleet wants to use eve voice go ahead, if you want to use Vent go ahead, if you want to use TS go ahead. I'm just saying that setting up ts or vent is rediculously easy to do and should not be the basis of an 'omg that fc wants me to use something other than eve voice therefore the entire FW fleet system is fail because I can't be arsed to learn how to tie my shoelaces'. Thats pretty much the vibe I'm getting here.
Oh and like I stated earlier in this thread we Amarr had no problems getting a bunch of admitted newbs to pvp of any sort quickley on ts and out killing several billions in isk of ships in our motley t1 cruiser gang.
The fact is, you would get far more participation if you went with EVE Voice.
A Faction is not an Alliance. There is no executor corp that establishes the framework and enforces decisions like what communications platform to use. Corps thinking of joining an Alliance look at things of this nature before they ever decide to join an Alliance to begin with.
The only logical (and wise) decision is to organize the Faction based around the simplest and most accepted and understood communication in use by its members and its allies.
Right now it is merely hindering your efforts. As the ball really gets rolling and you have even more people involved, and have a strong need to work smoothly with your Caldari Allies the decision to use 3rd party coms is going to come back to bite you in the butt.... hard.
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:50:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Rooker on 25/06/2008 20:53:56
Originally by: Victor Forge
Originally by: Rooker
To tell the truth, I would have loved to join DC's new corp, but, like most of the really good PVP corps on the Amarr side, it is "Amarr character / Amarr ship or gtfo". Not training an Amarr nub alt when my main has 25m sp, mostly pvp-related.
25 million sp or not. I can see why your main got turned down considering the amount of spies plaguing Amarr militia.
The question isnŠt if you have X amount of sp or not. The question is if you can be trusted?
Apparently they came to the conclusion that they couldnŠt trust you.
There are enough spies in already trying everything in their power to weaken any attempt for Amarr to orginaze and doing everything they can to drive away any Caldari help.
Who are you and where do you get your excellent intel about me? :)
If I'd wanted in, I could have gotten in with a nub alt. I don't know DC but I know many of the others in his corp, but I knew about the Amarr-only rules when he set it up. Like I said, I'm not training a nub alt for pvp when my main's been training for pvp for a year and a half.
/first post failed. edited for clarity
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Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
Tyrantus
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Qwert0
We just TRIED to help the Amarr today, in the time it took us to figure out what they were flying, their FC vanished, they lost a battleship to a nano gang, and their marauder quit. We then proceeded to roam caldari space because it wasn't worth the effort.
Then remove that amarr FC from your help list and find a more competant one. Trust there are some very competant FC floating around atm in the Amarr milita. We might be the smallest faction due to the fact everyone and his alt had the positive faction status right off the bat to zerg the caldari and all the pre fw dedicated pvpers had mostly good standings to gallante for that fed antimatter but we have heart and are striking effectively when we do strike. Remember that there is no time limit to fw and systems can be taken back just as easily as they are lost. Give us some more time to get truely organized and you will start seeing some epic pew pew in addition to the already lopsided victories we currently enjoy. 
Member Of The 24th Imperial |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:18:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Maybe certain FC need to get more organized?
Yes, the Amarr FC's certainly need to get more organized. They're down, what, 7-0 now?
A good way to get more organized would be to stop the needless squabbling over trying to force people to use TS/vent and just use Eve voice for big random militia ops.
TS/Vent work just fine for a cohesive core of people that play together regularly.
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Tyrantus
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
Maybe certain FC need to get more organized?
Yes, the Amarr FC's certainly need to get more organized. They're down, what, 7-0 now?
A good way to get more organized would be to stop the needless squabbling over trying to force people to use TS/vent and just use Eve voice for big random militia ops.
TS/Vent work just fine for a cohesive core of people that play together regularly.
What? 7-0? I didn't realise we were down by a touchdown. 
Again I'm not seeing any squabbling over what voice coms are used in the fleets I run in. Could you name those offending Amarr FC who are being picky any maybe we can convo them and talk about a compromise? We are all in it together after all.
Member Of The 24th Imperial |
Johncrab
XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.06.25 22:10:00 -
[72]
Amarr complain about spies... looks like the other militias don't have them 
Also, who's brilliant idea was it to force people to use TS/Vent??? When you have EVE Voice available to everyone, you force people in to Vent...? EVE Voice is far from perfect but please, keep it simple. You guys begin to fail even before engaging the enemy.
Also, what the hell is CVA doing?
But, from my experience, the main thing about why Minmatar are wining so hard is the pvp experience.
You look at Minmatar gangs and 1 out of every 3 or 4 ships is flown by a flashing red. If not flashing red, he's yellow. The majority of Minmatar are used to pvp. Most of the Amarr seem kinda lost tbh.
We do have a few very good FC's also. On the few big fights I've been on, FC's for the Amarr militia have been a total fail. Hell, they don't even know how to use EVE Voice |
Spineker
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 22:18:00 -
[73]
Eve-Voice or nothing in my opinion too many people trying to figure out TS and Vent and you have to go out of the game to tweak it.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.25 22:37:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Victor Forge
Originally by: Rooker
To tell the truth, I would have loved to join DC's new corp, but, like most of the really good PVP corps on the Amarr side, it is "Amarr character / Amarr ship or gtfo". Not training an Amarr nub alt when my main has 25m sp, mostly pvp-related.
25 million sp or not. I can see why your main got turned down considering the amount of spies plaguing Amarr militia.
The question isnŠt if you have X amount of sp or not. The question is if you can be trusted?
Apparently they came to the conclusion that they couldnŠt trust you.
There are enough spies in already trying everything in their power to weaken any attempt for Amarr to orginaze and doing everything they can to drive away any Caldari help.
Sounds a bit paranoid to me. On that note though, if there are so many spies in the Amarr militia why would any Caldari FC risk his own guys in that mix? (and why does it seem to only be the Amarr having major issues with these legions of mythical spies?).
Although by all means, I'm sure the Gallente would be happy to see the Caldari fighting on two fronts with TLF coming through to Black Rise on retaliatory attacks.
Join Kinda'Shujaa |
Blood Bathroom
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Posted - 2008.06.25 23:09:00 -
[75]
Caldari couldnt help anyway, they to busy camping tama gate on nourv side to scared to do anything lol talk about fail... hence why im leaving caldari side...
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Horizon Taker
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Posted - 2008.06.25 23:50:00 -
[76]
If you're the type to whine and moan about TS, and can't figure it out, then I don't want to fly with you anyways. It's as simple as that.
Eve Voice is a convenient, yes, but it's flawed in a lot of ways. Namely, the immense amount of lag/fps drop it gives to a lot of the players of eve. I'll gladly put together a vent server (hell, I'd shell out money for one if someone else didn't) before I decide to cave and click join audio.
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Alvara
Kuiper Belt Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.26 02:48:00 -
[77]
Someone asked why there is a wedge in amarr militia because of voice comms?
Let me relate to you one of the first fleets I joined. I had been in several others that used Eve Voice. This one though required TS. I didn't want to install TS since with Eve Voice I shouldn't need to. But they promised to relay commands into chat. That should work. combine commands with the Fleet commander warping the fleet; should be good enough. Right?
Well it wasn't, you see only about half the commands were being relayed so probably half the fleet was consistently left behind. Did I forget to say the fleet leader moved himself out of that spot into a gang so wings were warping individually?
I wasn't the first to ask why we couldn't use Eve Voice, but I did ask too. Anyways, combine the fact the fleet leader refused to use Eve Voice despite a significant portion of his fleet asking for it. He just whined back that it lags his computer so no.
So here is the situation, people being left behind everywhere, fleet commander not use warp fleet and other such commands, like target this, go to here, etc.
After 15 min or more of being left behind and wondering where the fleet had gone, I gave up and went and soloed a complex or two.
I gave the FC a couple of constructive criticisms.
It took a couple days before I heard the new rule of the FC decides the voice comms to be used. I've abided by it. I won't join a fleet that requires TS or Vent. One problem, anyone who advertises a Eve Voice fleet gets ragged hard in militia chat. And the same ones wonder why Amarr is hurting.
Tired of Waiting to do research? Use Empire Research |
Tyrantus
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.26 03:04:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Alvara
I wasn't the first to ask why we couldn't use Eve Voice, but I did ask too. Anyways, combine the fact the fleet leader refused to use Eve Voice despite a significant portion of his fleet asking for it. He just whined back that it lags his computer so no.
Eve voice does lag some peoples systems that use it. In this case it was the FC who was effected so he could:
A) Use eve voice and be of zero value to the fleet due to garbled speech and unresponsive client or..
B) Use a simple to download and setup voice coms that everyone can use in minutes and be a benefit to the fleet as an FC should.
Choice should be obvious. 
Loyal Member Of The 24th Imperial |
Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.06.26 03:08:00 -
[79]
I thought Caldari won the war already.
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T'Amber
anomandaris demaleon
Vaccaei Imperial
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Posted - 2008.06.26 03:52:00 -
[80]
The Amarr obviously rely on their minmatar slaves to do everything for them, maybe once they can wipe their own ****s they'll be able to flush their egos and just use eve voice.
On the other hand...
Someone on the Minmatar side should put the Amarr FCs on their payroll (if they haven't already) and keep them trying to get everyone to use TS or Vent!
T
a n o m a n d a r i s . d e m a l e o n
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Trind2222
Soliders Of Eve
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 04:11:00 -
[81]
Rely they need a fc from Fin-Fleet they know all good tactics agents big blobs.
And they need to cooperate more so they have they know what do.
As I told before some one have to take the step make own squad so you can surprise your enemy.
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Tortun Nahme
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 04:49:00 -
[82]
there is only 1 minmatar spy in all of the amarr militia, but he is SO effective he has them runing scared
his code name is Nano, and all the nano threads issued lately are his dead drops for orders
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.26 04:51:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
there is only 1 minmatar spy in all of the amarr militia
sure, thats why they were relaying FC orders back to us in chat channels....
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Tortun Nahme
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 04:54:00 -
[84]
muaha scared aren't you?
the truth is, our nanoships are so fast that we can get right up to your hull, hear your plans, and get off the grid before the lag catches up and you could have seen us
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.26 05:03:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
muaha scared aren't you?
the truth is, our nanoships are so fast that we can get right up to your hull, hear your plans, and get off the grid before the lag catches up and you could have seen us
i knew it was something like that, time to insulate the hulls
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Raymon James
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.26 05:57:00 -
[86]
Ok, to be blunt, what happens when the people who were running the Voice channel leave for the night? or gets ****y in mid fight and boots everyone off? or their connection bugs, (Eve Voice when their connection bugs odds are that everyones doing the 1,000,000 KM warp drive active dance anyway) or worse yet allows a blanket invite to people to use his voice setup includnig the alt spy?
Heck I bet I dont even have to log my alt spy in the game to be able to listen in on your "private" voice channel and hear what you morons are up to once you let them into your server! or do you think to change the login every time? from the looks of your gangs you guys have your hand full cat (more accuratly kitten) hearding let alone handle something basic like fleet Comms security!
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Raymon James
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.26 06:00:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
muaha scared aren't you?
the truth is, our nanoships are so fast that we can get right up to your hull, hear your plans, and get off the grid before the lag catches up and you could have seen us
i knew it was something like that, time to insulate the hulls
Good! that plating adds a 50% penalty to speed, agility, capacitor,(needs extra power to run the cooling system you know) heat mitigation and takes a highslot to boot! seems our plan is working perfectly!
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Nikita Alterana
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.26 06:27:00 -
[88]
hey Minmatar militia, if you run out of Amarr to shoot at in FW, you should invade Providence.
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Cpt Constantinus
Celestial Janissaries
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Posted - 2008.06.26 09:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana
hey Minmatar militia, if you run out of Amarr to shoot at in FW, you should invade Providence.
I strongly suggest to fit faction and officer modules when you do so.
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Falkrich Swifthand
eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:54:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 26/06/2008 13:05:52
Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 26/06/2008 12:56:14
Last time I went to help the Amarr, it was with a group of 40 or so other Caldari. We joined up with a ~60 person Amarr fleet into what was possibly the world's slowest moving fleet (10 minutes to go one system, going about 5 total, yay), got one fight, then the Amarr FC disbanded the fleet to form into smaller plex-capturing squads.
We were all told to dock up in the nearest Amarr highsec and switch to small ships. When reminded that almost half the fleet was Caldari and had no ships within 15 jumps, he said "oh yeah, I forgot about the Caldari", then continued talking about how everyone should dock up and switch to small ships. He would repeat the same thing many different ways, as if his brain would freeze if he shut up. Most of us left him to return to our own space, with several of us saying (in voice TeamSpeak, when we got a word in) that we probably wouldn't ever be coming back.
So, out of the Caldari who actually tried to help the Amarr out one time, one truly terrible FC convinced most of us it wasn't worth it.
EDIT: Oh yeah, insisting all the Caldari installed TeamSpeak didn't help.
nullnull
My sig is not my sig. |
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