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Mr Achura Star High Industries and Technology 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:42:00 - [31] Edited by: Mr Achura on 30/06/2008 11:46:40 I use a golem and will always use it apart from the nighthawk for massive attack mission WHY ? I just love it, I can rattle through missions easy with a perma shiled booster tank, with no problems, NOT even in AE bounes room.( no faction loot from that dam station yet) I use cruise most of the time, with NO painters my drones kill the frigs leaving the missiles to hit the larger targets, Damsel in distress is a nice TORP mission, I can do this mission in uder 15 minutes, looting takes longer Ok the CNR does do more DPS, but has a CNR got 1555 shield boost every 5 seconds ( just a X-large t2 booster) Also this allows me to loot at the same time, ok ok faster to get a differant ship at the end, BUT it all depends what you want i only loot the bs, bc's and the odd cruiser that is close. for me the Golem ( even though 5 letters and i still cant spell the dam thing) every time. End of the day it comes down to what you are best skilled too and what you prefer, just because everone else does, means you dont have too iam just waiting till i have 1 bill spare, then I will get me a Gist shiled booster, which allows me to perma boost it, and have 4 x ballistic controls in low
Taex	Posted - 2008.06.30 14:19:00 - [32] Ok first, defender missiles are percentage based. Due to rounding, a golem might do slightly less DPS at first, but it would quickly even out. Secondly, enter the torpedo. Defender missiles do approximately 80 damage. Cruise missiles have 50 structure hp and no resistances. So they always get one shotted by a defender. Torpedoes have 240 hp and no resistances. So it takes three defenders. Rats don't use that many, and players nearly never use defenders. "But torps have terrible range" you say? Here's a fit I came up with to help overcome this: [Golem, Almost Awesome] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 640 DPS not including drones with good skills out to 54.1 km (theoretical). Sustainable omnitank of 373 DPS. But I wasn't happy since it had faction BCS and I'm a cheapskate. So I posted a 10M EFT contest to improve on it and got this from the character, Endless Subersion which I tweaked ever so slightly: [Golem, Endless Subversion2] Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I With my skills and torpedo specialization it does 614 DPS (not including drones) out to a theoretical 54.1km. No faction modules, and with launcher rigging IV, only requires a 1% slot 6 implant (gypsy KMB-25). You can get away with launcher rigging I if you want to use a 3% gypsy KMB-50. Currently uses a slot 7 deadeye ZML100 and a slot 10 ZMM100 to hit that DPS number. But the beauty of the fit isn't that particular setup, it's the fact that it's got all that crammed on there, but you can tinker with the midslots for missions where you don't need the afterburner, cap booster, or quad hardeners etc. For example, missions where you don't need as much range or tank, you can switch to t1 missiles and hit for 727 non drone DPS out to 36km without missile projection V or missile bombardment V (neither of the above setups include these skills either). Like this: [Golem, OMGolem] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hammerhead II x5 But the beauty of the golem doesn't stop there. Last night I slapped four cargo expanders on it, and used it to relocate my base of operations 21 jumps away in one trip.
Kalana Eargon	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:10:00 - [33] Well, in my Raven they "might" take out 2 of my cruise missiles max, so that leaves 4 missiles. If you get 2 taken away from a Golem that leaves the power of 4 missiles, so you use less ammo and have a higher chance of better dps. Then you have tractor beam bonus etc. So yeah they actually can be useful for missions. The only problem I see with them is low sensor strength, and that can be fixed or just not matter.
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Taex my skills suck 2 Reactor Control Unit T2 on a Golem??????
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Sokratesz Remind me of the patch last year where they broke the siege module so it would nullify the ROF of all capital weapons i always wondered what would have happend with a rev seeing as how t1 crystals dont break, would it deal unlimited dps? or go would it empty the entire cap Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Vraygan	Posted - 2008.06.30 18:59:00 - [36] Edited by: Vraygan on 30/06/2008 19:01:25 ZOMG how many times does this have to be said? It takes more than 1 defender missiles to destroy a Torpedo. Rats only send 1 defender at a missile. Therefore there is NO LOSS OF DPS AT ALL. If a rat fires 3 defender missiles they target different torpedoes and so you still don't lose dps. I have missioned in my golem for dozens of hours and never seen a torpedo shot down, ever. Of course you can choose not to believe me. Which is great because the longer it takes for you people to do the missions the more I get paid for doing them MUCH faster :) In case you didn't know this mechanic either; Mission payouts functions on an average created by the players when they complete a mission. The longer the average means the higher the payout in LP and ISK. Hence if you can do missions way faster than the average bear then you get a lot more ISK.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 30/06/2008 16:19:46 Originally by: Taex stuff I can't read Try again plz.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Vraygan Edited by: Vraygan on 30/06/2008 19:01:25 ZOMG how many times does this have to be said? It takes more than 1 defender missiles to destroy a Torpedo. Rats only send 1 defender at a missile. Therefore there is NO LOSS OF DPS AT ALL. If a rat fires 3 defender missiles they target different torpedoes and so you still don't lose dps. I have missioned in my golem for dozens of hours and never seen a torpedo shot down, ever. Of course you can choose not to believe me. Which is great because the longer it takes for you people to do the missions the more I get paid for doing them MUCH faster :) In case you didn't know this mechanic either; Mission payouts functions on an average created by the players when they complete a mission. The longer the average means the higher the payout in LP and ISK. Hence if you can do missions way faster than the average bear then you get a lot more ISK. The payout + bonus are peanuts compared to the loot, salvage & bounties.
Fzhal Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:47:00 - [39] Agreed but the LP can payout very well too. Also I love being able to loot and salvage while popping BS's. Usually I'll have all the large and medium wrecks looted and salvaged by the time I kill the last rat. So I don't have to waste time bringing back for loot pickup! That 1,225 M3 cargo is so sweet!
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Fzhal Agreed but the LP can payout very well too. Also I love being able to loot and salvage while popping BS's. Usually I'll have all the large and medium wrecks looted and salvaged by the time I kill the last rat. So I don't have to waste time bringing back for loot pickup! That 1,225 M3 cargo is so sweet! Wait until you realize you can use a heavy injector and fit 36 cap booster 800s + ammo in there and do AE Bonus room without warping out.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:15:00 - [41] Pointless semantics, but he did say 100% rate of fire bonus, not 100% reduction in cycle time. So a 100% bonus would double your rate of fire... meaning you shoot twice as many missiles in a given time period.
Nu Wa	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:18:00 - [42] Originally by: Watain How can the Caldari Marauder be in anny use during PvE when every BC/BS rat has defender missiles? As Caldari marauder have 4 launcher hardpoints 2 or 3 deffencer missiles can cripple its DPS with 50% to 75%. Whatta ***!!! I dont have a Marauder nor will i ever have it because of this. Discuss caldari marauder Sign..slits own wrist and jumps off a cliff*
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 30/06/2008 16:19:46 Originally by: Taex stuff I can't read Try again plz. Try what again he still has two reactor control units fitted to a Golem in one of his setups.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.06.30 21:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Helen Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 30/06/2008 16:19:46 Originally by: Taex stuff I can't read Try again plz. Try what again he still has two reactor control units fitted to a Golem in one of his setups. Only in the setup that he wasn't happy with because it required faction BCU... lolz. Nevermind the dual reactor controls, those faction BCU's are terrible. Maybe the try again was because that wasn't the setup he settled on (?), but regardless he posted it.
Taex	Posted - 2008.06.30 21:58:00 - [45] Originally by: Boz Well Only in the setup that he wasn't happy with because it required faction BCU... lolz. Nevermind the dual reactor controls, those faction BCU's are terrible. Maybe the try again was because that wasn't the setup he settled on (?), but regardless he posted it. It does 724 DPS at 54.1km, 837 @ 36km, or 910 at 36km w/faction missiles. It tanks 400 sustained DPS while doing it. Can solo Angel Extravaganza under full aggro while afterburning around at will. All while requiring no deadspace or officer modules, and only one faction module - which is optional. And without changing rigs or implants, you can get it up to 1105 DPS @ 36km with two target painters or a TP and a web. What's funny about it?
Jmanis Catharg Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.30 22:32:00 - [46] Not again,,, Marauder is at it's finest *as a torp boat* Why do people insistently refuse to fit it as it was made to be? --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.06.30 23:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. Oh, wow... x18 volley damage, emptying your entire magazine on a single target ? HELL YES ! Other than reload time, there's nothing to stop you - you can unload lethal damage* on any 4 NPCs in range every 10 seconds, whopee ! * 18 torps SHOULD be enough for just about any mission NPC ___ P.S. Of course I know you meant a -50% RoF bonus, I'm just jerking your chain
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Not again,,, Marauder is at it's finest *as a torp boat* Why do people insistently refuse to fit it as it was made to be? Because we also like to take advantage of the extra Loot/Salvage, duh.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 12:47:00 - [49] A skilled torp golem goes 500m/s with good equipment. It deals massive amounts of damages when using faction torps (which I really advise to do) compared to cruise missiles. Also, you can't loot the targets before you are within torp range anyways, right? So, by the time you are arriving slowboating with no afterburner, a torp golem will already killed half the rats and looting the wrecks. Not to mention that you can use your drones earlier for the small frigs in Worlds collide first stage. Better try it first before making assumptions about something. I fly a torp golem myself and I would ALWAYS prefer one over a navy raven or cruise golem, cause it's all the minor advantages of marauders combined that make them shine. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Tamoko Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Lol. Took me a few seconds to figure out wtf a NIR was. I don't feel quite so inept, any more. I had no clue. I got "navy" and "raven" (after I read it and realised what he was on about) but I couldnt get the I :D --
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:18:00 - [51] Better try it first before making assumptions about something. I fly a torp golem myself and I would ALWAYS prefer one over a navy raven or cruise golem, cause it's all the minor advantages of marauders combined that make them shine. Like wise, pal, as I did fit up my golem with torps and I'll stick with Cal Navy cruise launchers, thank you.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Ralara Anyway, if I had a Golem, I'd fit it like this: No painter, no range rigs, only 2 bcu's No zmt, DY-1 instead of CC8 ... Cap stable, perma tanks about 900 DPS, dopes 751 DPS with my skills (can get it higher of course) so pretty nice. Overloads for 1342 dps tank. And you know what, it's not even worth "super-fitting" it - DG BCS gives a whopping 20 more DPS ... 44km max range? 47km with Proj 5 + ZML1000. No, not enough. So many fits in this thread that I would never consider using. A PvE torp Golem fit starts with the following mods. (was equipped with the following, yes yes) 3x BCU, best painter, 4x T2 launchers, 2x range rigs. Without the 5% range implant AND Proj 5, a t1 range rigged Torp Golem is already borderline. Without range rigs you've got maybe 3 missions where it's effective. Without painter, jeez, a painter is 100% mandatory, even with javelins. Tbh, in a fit like that you'd probably be better off with Cruises.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:50:00 - [53] I like my set up [Golem, Chainsaw Plankton's golem set up, its funny because Chainsaw doesn't have caldari bs 5, or tech2 torps, or even tactical shield manipulation 4 to use the tech 2 hardeners, but has/had the other stuff, yea I sold most of it so what?] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Hakim's Modified Large Shield Booster Cap Recharger II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hammerhead II x5 perma tanks over 1k gurista incoming dps, hits out over 1k dps coughcheck contracts for the Hakim's Modified Large Shield Booster, go for the buyoutcough
Esperanda	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:08:00 - [54] Im posting with a alt so i dont get suicide ganked, but my main has posted already (cryptic!) GOLEM My old setup was (for most peeps) I did actually type in my fit but then i thought FU work it out urself nubs In addition to this i had a lo-grade snake set in my head. I was using cal navy torps also... the numbers worked out: 1002 dps 7599 volly dmge (enough to 1 volley most cruiusers) 628 perma tanked 1123 max tanked for 2m 22s After realising the potential i spent a few bill and squeezed in a gisti ab also I didnt write the setup this time cuz (FU nubs) i also plugged a hi-grade cyrstal set and imps that suport torp and shield Numbers r 1041 dps 7827 volly (not much improvment here i know) 745 permatanked 1565 Max tanked (a little better) Y spend all those billions to change the nubers by so little? Thats whet ur asking rite??... Well what i did was squeaze a gistii ab on.. I had to drop a sba to make room, this left my tank not as good as i would like. I had to spend a bit on faction/deadspace stuff to make the tank as good minus a slot, while i was spending big i thought y not ditch the cap booster and make it all sustainable so i replaced the cap booster with a t2 cap charger (its practicly afk missioning now) Now for my point... The golem does such gr8 dps and has such a awsome tank know 1 would want to make it better (for what it does). The only thing u can improve is the missiles range. If u spend 600m on t2 rigs u can get a whoping extra km outa ur torps. (awsome) We cant improve range so lets improve on the time it takes to get in range ENter the ab. Now range isnot an issue yay. Patrinization has been turned to the max cus only thick ppl will need to b told this!! BTW every 1 knoes that that the npc`s chance to nullify a missile with defenders is percentage base..... Nice troll tho
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.04 10:34:00 - [55] Without the 5% range implant AND Proj 5, a t1 range rigged Torp Golem is borderline. Without range rigs you've got maybe 3 missions where it's truly effective. Without painter, jeez, a painter is 100% mandatory, even with javelins. Tbh, in a fit like that you'd probably be better off with Cruises. Yah, I'll concede that there's probably 3-4 L4 missions where torps would do better but I'll complete at least one extra mission in place of the time it would take to refit. Oh, did I mention that I have maxed cruise, BS and shield skills, lol. And, that 1.3B spent on the implants helps, too. And, with over 3m in Caldari LPs, Navy missiles do speed my kills up considerably, lol. Now, if I were still out in the Drone Regions, a torp Golem should be uber, lol.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.04 10:56:00 - [56] Again, Trops vs Cruise depends on the persons playstyle more than anything else. E.G A player who wants a afk 3 BCU, x-large booster II permatank setup can simply use a cruise fit. A player who wants max dps and cares little for permatank would use painters, missile range/velocity rigs and torps. Both have seperate needs. They person with the permatank can afk lvl4's while watching tv or while managing several other accounts for pvp or whatever. The torp active pilot would be the looser here. But if people define their goal as max isk, and are able to remain constantly focused on keeping the tank going, then a torp fit is better. Some people do both. A torp fit and a cruise fit. Cruise fit for when they pvp and a torp fit for when they are able to focus. Its a apples and oranges issue. -- Billion Isk Mission
Robert Tyrell	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:33:00 - [57] Edited by: Robert Tyrell on 04/07/2008 11:35:14 Originally by: Esperanda I was using cal navy torps also... the numbers worked out: 1002 dps pfft. And why don't people include drones? You should always include drones, unless of course you don't use them. Quote: 7599 volly dmge (enough to 1 volley most cruiusers) That's odd. In my short test I found even over 8k (raw) faction volley damage is not enough for most cruisers, with 1 painter at Marauder 3, sig focusing 0. That 450 explosion rad is just too big. Maybe with javs...haven't had a chance to test that yet. 5 days to Marauder 4, so unless you're bullshittin', that sounds really good to me, just need those two skills now. BC's on the other hand, those you can one volley even with 7k volley dmg. Quote: If u spend 600m on t2 rigs u can get a whoping extra km outa ur torps. (awsome) That's more like 3 and 5km for T1 and Javs respectively, and it's useful, even if it is expensive.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Watain How can the Caldari Marauder be in anny use during PvE when every BC/BS rat has defender missiles? As Caldari marauder have 4 launcher hardpoints 2 or 3 deffencer missiles can cripple its DPS with 50% to 75%. Whatta ****!!! I dont have a Marauder nor will i ever have it because of this. Discuss caldari marauder I dont have the calcs handy at work but the Golem easily outdamages a CNR even considering defenders. Thats with my current Cruise setup too. Frankly it's the best ship for mission running hands down.
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.07.04 14:38:00 - [59] could someone please post what implants to go for and booster to go for when considering max range/dmg with torps. we already know the fits and rigs for the ship. i've scanned the forums and battleclinic and best so far is around 62km i was sure u can bump that upto 69km i could be wrong though?
Tappits Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.07.05 19:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Its RNI not CNR or NIR same with the thron its a MNI o and the T2 BS thing OP was on about is fine

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