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Watain Caldari Sincarnate Contracts	Posted - 2008.06.29 10:36:00 - [1] How can the Caldari Marauder be in anny use during PvE when every BC/BS rat has defender missiles? As Caldari marauder have 4 launcher hardpoints 2 or 3 deffencer missiles can cripple its DPS with 50% to 75%. Whatta ****!!! I dont have a Marauder nor will i ever have it because of this. Discuss caldari marauder
Bazman Caldari Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.29 10:42:00 - [2] This is coming up alot Defenders will cause you to lose no more firepower than a normal Raven would. Defenders have a 30% chance to fire per missile you fire. And if your using torpedo's like the Golem is designed for, it doesn't matter anyway because it takes 3 defenders to kill a torpedo and they will only ever fire one defender per missile at you.
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.29 12:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Watain Discuss using eve search to find relevant info that stops me looking stupid also good troll
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.29 13:12:00 - [4] Why does this keep coming up like..weekly?
Hellspawn666 Minmatar Master Miners Intruders.	Posted - 2008.06.29 13:57:00 - [5] Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.29 14:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. YES!
MenanceWhite Amarr Fruit Fellatio	Posted - 2008.06.29 14:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. hell yes. missiles doesnt that that much space anyways --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Gazzaa29	Posted - 2008.06.29 15:23:00 - [8] Edited by: Gazzaa29 on 29/06/2008 15:23:47 if u never fly a Golem then ul never know what ur missing.. Ignorance is bliss Im too drunk to do all the maths for u and u can feel free to get distorted reports from ur eft if u like. Here is the facts. I have a NIR and a Golem. The nir sits in the hanger gathering dust, the golem gets used all the time. Any 1 that has both will agree that golem is miles better than the nir (forget normal ravens lol) Yes the nir can theoreticly out dps a golem, and in eft/theory land thats gr8. Problem is tho once u fit the sieges on ur raven u dont get much fitting left for ur tank, and ur torps wont b as good unless u gimp ur tank further to fit a tp2. The golem can 1 volley most cruisers (thats a massive time saver) bses pop in 2 sumtimes 3 volleys.. the frigs go down quick too wiv a tp on them, i dont bother launching drones anymore. In short the golem p**ses all over ravens/NIRs. I challenge any1 to do a lvl4 in a nir faster than me in a golem, looser looses his ship
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.29 15:53:00 - [9] Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR.
DARTHxFREE Double Indemnity Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.29 16:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. reminds me of HAS / HAC and kk instead of m(million) really sad one that /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.06.29 16:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Lol. Took me a few seconds to figure out wtf a NIR was.
Athamai	Posted - 2008.06.29 17:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Lol. Took me a few seconds to figure out wtf a NIR was. My first thought was nir? How drunk is he..
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.30 07:59:00 - [13] Ive been running my Golem w/cal navy cruise launchers and love it BUT, maybe I should try torps ??
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.06.30 08:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Lol. Took me a few seconds to figure out wtf a NIR was. I don't feel quite so inept, any more. I had no clue.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.06.30 08:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Captain Gorlok Ive been running my Golem w/cal navy cruise launchers and love it BUT, maybe I should try torps ?? For the love of god, use a CNR if you want cruise. Golem is a torpedo boat.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.30 08:43:00 - [16] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/06/2008 08:44:43 Originally by: Watain How can the Caldari Marauder be in anny use during PvE when every BC/BS rat has defender missiles? As Caldari marauder have 4 launcher hardpoints 2 or 3 deffencer missiles can cripple its DPS with 50% to 75%. Whatta ****!!! I dont have a Marauder nor will i ever have it because of this. Discuss caldari marauder Sigh. Another troll. But since some newer player might ask the same question, answer is as follows. Regardless of missile velocity, you are going to get hit by defenders on roughly 20% of your missiles above 40km range. Some enemies spam more defenders. Some enemies spam less. Average is around 20%. 1. With Max Velocity skills and implants, you can outrun 99% of Defenders within 30-35km or so. 2. NPC's fire a maximum of 1 defender. So you can simply use torps which will never die. However torps have lower range and increased fitting. 3. Nothing wrong changing from torps to cruise depending on mission. Some missions make torp golems better, other missions has cruise golems better. Even the same mission can be better with torps or cruise depending on if you have a hackers card or not (e.g Worlds collide, without hackers card, cruise is best isk/hour for speedrun for LP by skipping all gates. With hackers card, Torps are better since you can complete last stage quicker.) Torps = Apples. Cruise = Orange. Both are good for different things. Caldari maurader is good but has 1 less slot from CNR (1 less rig slot, since a low got moved to a mid)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.06.30 09:05:00 - [17] Edited by: Qui Shon on 30/06/2008 09:06:20 Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. Mm, not neccesarily. 1. For PvE,I'd have to factor in reloads to get a more meaningful dps number. 2. No more 1 shotting BC's. 3. Reduced bang/buck for faction ammo. So, no, not really. The guys shouting YES, I wonder if they've tought it through all the way, or would they really use a Golem for PvP?
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 30/06/2008 09:06:20 Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. Mm, not neccesarily. 1. For PvE,I'd have to factor in reloads to get a more meaningful dps number. 2. No more 1 shotting BC's. 3. Reduced bang/buck for faction ammo. So, no, not really. The guys shouting YES, I wonder if they've tought it through all the way, or would they really use a Golem for PvP? With a 0 second cycle time? I sure would. Think of the Alpha, man! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Sokratesz Why does this keep coming up like..weekly? its either that or they have low strength and will get jammed all the time and I would like to say its more than weekly.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:30:00 - [20] Edited by: Qui Shon on 30/06/2008 10:34:56 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 30/06/2008 09:06:20 Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. Mm, not neccesarily. 1. For PvE,I'd have to factor in reloads to get a more meaningful dps number. 2. No more 1 shotting BC's. 3. Reduced bang/buck for faction ammo. So, no, not really. The guys shouting YES, I wonder if they've tought it through all the way, or would they really use a Golem for PvP? With a 0 second cycle time? I sure would. Think of the Alpha, man! LOL! Okay, he got me, or you guys did. Damn, it was I who did not think it through. Was thinking rounds / time, with the rounds figure being changed, which is not how Eve measures RoF, of course.
Tolsimir Wolfblood Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 30/06/2008 10:34:02 I mostly live in 0.0 and i have to say ratting in a Golem with t2 torps + boost tank + mwd ftw
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:33:00 - [22] Move in closer = defenders won't have time to reach your cruise missiles before they smash on the target. Use torps = defenders cannot kill them effectively. The Golem simply rocks.
Daelorn Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:37:00 - [23] Maybe Golem should have a bonus to missile's HP?
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:42:00 - [24] A golem emptying all its launchers in an instant wil be doing about 150k raw damage..enough to instapop any subcap
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Sokratesz A golem emptying all its launchers in an instant wil be doing about 150k raw damage..enough to instapop any subcap and if not, it can tank well enough to reload and finish the job with the next volley... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:01:00 - [26] Remind me of the patch last year where they broke the siege module so it would nullify the ROF of all capital weapons I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Tamoko Originally by: Captain Gorlok Ive been running my Golem w/cal navy cruise launchers and love it BUT, maybe I should try torps ?? For the love of god, use a CNR if you want cruise. Golem is a torpedo boat. Does the CNR have 40km TB range, 1000m/s suck speed and 1225m3 cargo, duh. Just tried torps and the range was only 29km, so how much time do u spend chasing those 40km orbiting rats?
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Captain Gorlok Just tried torps and the range was only 29km, so how much time do u spend chasing those 40km orbiting rats? Use rigs and implants to increase range, and add afterburner. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
MMXMMX Caldari Resistance is Futile United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Captain Gorlok Just tried torps and the range was only 29km, so how much time do u spend chasing those 40km orbiting rats? Use rigs and implants to increase range, and add afterburner. Yeh good 1 most off the time the rats are 70km or 100km away
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:33:00 - [30] Aggro them and they will approach swiftly while you burn for them or the next gate. I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them.
Mr Achura Star High Industries and Technology 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:42:00 - [31] Edited by: Mr Achura on 30/06/2008 11:46:40 I use a golem and will always use it apart from the nighthawk for massive attack mission WHY ? I just love it, I can rattle through missions easy with a perma shiled booster tank, with no problems, NOT even in AE bounes room.( no faction loot from that dam station yet) I use cruise most of the time, with NO painters my drones kill the frigs leaving the missiles to hit the larger targets, Damsel in distress is a nice TORP mission, I can do this mission in uder 15 minutes, looting takes longer Ok the CNR does do more DPS, but has a CNR got 1555 shield boost every 5 seconds ( just a X-large t2 booster) Also this allows me to loot at the same time, ok ok faster to get a differant ship at the end, BUT it all depends what you want i only loot the bs, bc's and the odd cruiser that is close. for me the Golem ( even though 5 letters and i still cant spell the dam thing) every time. End of the day it comes down to what you are best skilled too and what you prefer, just because everone else does, means you dont have too iam just waiting till i have 1 bill spare, then I will get me a Gist shiled booster, which allows me to perma boost it, and have 4 x ballistic controls in low
Taex	Posted - 2008.06.30 14:19:00 - [32] Ok first, defender missiles are percentage based. Due to rounding, a golem might do slightly less DPS at first, but it would quickly even out. Secondly, enter the torpedo. Defender missiles do approximately 80 damage. Cruise missiles have 50 structure hp and no resistances. So they always get one shotted by a defender. Torpedoes have 240 hp and no resistances. So it takes three defenders. Rats don't use that many, and players nearly never use defenders. "But torps have terrible range" you say? Here's a fit I came up with to help overcome this: [Golem, Almost Awesome] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 640 DPS not including drones with good skills out to 54.1 km (theoretical). Sustainable omnitank of 373 DPS. But I wasn't happy since it had faction BCS and I'm a cheapskate. So I posted a 10M EFT contest to improve on it and got this from the character, Endless Subersion which I tweaked ever so slightly: [Golem, Endless Subversion2] Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I With my skills and torpedo specialization it does 614 DPS (not including drones) out to a theoretical 54.1km. No faction modules, and with launcher rigging IV, only requires a 1% slot 6 implant (gypsy KMB-25). You can get away with launcher rigging I if you want to use a 3% gypsy KMB-50. Currently uses a slot 7 deadeye ZML100 and a slot 10 ZMM100 to hit that DPS number. But the beauty of the fit isn't that particular setup, it's the fact that it's got all that crammed on there, but you can tinker with the midslots for missions where you don't need the afterburner, cap booster, or quad hardeners etc. For example, missions where you don't need as much range or tank, you can switch to t1 missiles and hit for 727 non drone DPS out to 36km without missile projection V or missile bombardment V (neither of the above setups include these skills either). Like this: [Golem, OMGolem] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Torpedo Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hammerhead II x5 But the beauty of the golem doesn't stop there. Last night I slapped four cargo expanders on it, and used it to relocate my base of operations 21 jumps away in one trip.
Kalana Eargon	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:10:00 - [33] Well, in my Raven they "might" take out 2 of my cruise missiles max, so that leaves 4 missiles. If you get 2 taken away from a Golem that leaves the power of 4 missiles, so you use less ammo and have a higher chance of better dps. Then you have tractor beam bonus etc. So yeah they actually can be useful for missions. The only problem I see with them is low sensor strength, and that can be fixed or just not matter.
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Taex my skills suck 2 Reactor Control Unit T2 on a Golem??????
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.06.30 16:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Sokratesz Remind me of the patch last year where they broke the siege module so it would nullify the ROF of all capital weapons i always wondered what would have happend with a rev seeing as how t1 crystals dont break, would it deal unlimited dps? or go would it empty the entire cap Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Vraygan	Posted - 2008.06.30 18:59:00 - [36] Edited by: Vraygan on 30/06/2008 19:01:25 ZOMG how many times does this have to be said? It takes more than 1 defender missiles to destroy a Torpedo. Rats only send 1 defender at a missile. Therefore there is NO LOSS OF DPS AT ALL. If a rat fires 3 defender missiles they target different torpedoes and so you still don't lose dps. I have missioned in my golem for dozens of hours and never seen a torpedo shot down, ever. Of course you can choose not to believe me. Which is great because the longer it takes for you people to do the missions the more I get paid for doing them MUCH faster :) In case you didn't know this mechanic either; Mission payouts functions on an average created by the players when they complete a mission. The longer the average means the higher the payout in LP and ISK. Hence if you can do missions way faster than the average bear then you get a lot more ISK.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 30/06/2008 16:19:46 Originally by: Taex stuff I can't read Try again plz.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Vraygan Edited by: Vraygan on 30/06/2008 19:01:25 ZOMG how many times does this have to be said? It takes more than 1 defender missiles to destroy a Torpedo. Rats only send 1 defender at a missile. Therefore there is NO LOSS OF DPS AT ALL. If a rat fires 3 defender missiles they target different torpedoes and so you still don't lose dps. I have missioned in my golem for dozens of hours and never seen a torpedo shot down, ever. Of course you can choose not to believe me. Which is great because the longer it takes for you people to do the missions the more I get paid for doing them MUCH faster :) In case you didn't know this mechanic either; Mission payouts functions on an average created by the players when they complete a mission. The longer the average means the higher the payout in LP and ISK. Hence if you can do missions way faster than the average bear then you get a lot more ISK. The payout + bonus are peanuts compared to the loot, salvage & bounties.
Fzhal Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:47:00 - [39] Agreed but the LP can payout very well too. Also I love being able to loot and salvage while popping BS's. Usually I'll have all the large and medium wrecks looted and salvaged by the time I kill the last rat. So I don't have to waste time bringing back for loot pickup! That 1,225 M3 cargo is so sweet!
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Fzhal Agreed but the LP can payout very well too. Also I love being able to loot and salvage while popping BS's. Usually I'll have all the large and medium wrecks looted and salvaged by the time I kill the last rat. So I don't have to waste time bringing back for loot pickup! That 1,225 M3 cargo is so sweet! Wait until you realize you can use a heavy injector and fit 36 cap booster 800s + ammo in there and do AE Bonus room without warping out.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:15:00 - [41] Pointless semantics, but he did say 100% rate of fire bonus, not 100% reduction in cycle time. So a 100% bonus would double your rate of fire... meaning you shoot twice as many missiles in a given time period.
Nu Wa	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:18:00 - [42] Originally by: Watain How can the Caldari Marauder be in anny use during PvE when every BC/BS rat has defender missiles? As Caldari marauder have 4 launcher hardpoints 2 or 3 deffencer missiles can cripple its DPS with 50% to 75%. Whatta ***!!! I dont have a Marauder nor will i ever have it because of this. Discuss caldari marauder Sign..slits own wrist and jumps off a cliff*
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:57:00 - [43] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 30/06/2008 16:19:46 Originally by: Taex stuff I can't read Try again plz. Try what again he still has two reactor control units fitted to a Golem in one of his setups.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.06.30 21:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Helen Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 30/06/2008 16:19:46 Originally by: Taex stuff I can't read Try again plz. Try what again he still has two reactor control units fitted to a Golem in one of his setups. Only in the setup that he wasn't happy with because it required faction BCU... lolz. Nevermind the dual reactor controls, those faction BCU's are terrible. Maybe the try again was because that wasn't the setup he settled on (?), but regardless he posted it.
Taex	Posted - 2008.06.30 21:58:00 - [45] Originally by: Boz Well Only in the setup that he wasn't happy with because it required faction BCU... lolz. Nevermind the dual reactor controls, those faction BCU's are terrible. Maybe the try again was because that wasn't the setup he settled on (?), but regardless he posted it. It does 724 DPS at 54.1km, 837 @ 36km, or 910 at 36km w/faction missiles. It tanks 400 sustained DPS while doing it. Can solo Angel Extravaganza under full aggro while afterburning around at will. All while requiring no deadspace or officer modules, and only one faction module - which is optional. And without changing rigs or implants, you can get it up to 1105 DPS @ 36km with two target painters or a TP and a web. What's funny about it?
Jmanis Catharg Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.30 22:32:00 - [46] Not again,,, Marauder is at it's finest *as a torp boat* Why do people insistently refuse to fit it as it was made to be? --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.06.30 23:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. Oh, wow... x18 volley damage, emptying your entire magazine on a single target ? HELL YES ! Other than reload time, there's nothing to stop you - you can unload lethal damage* on any 4 NPCs in range every 10 seconds, whopee ! * 18 torps SHOULD be enough for just about any mission NPC ___ P.S. Of course I know you meant a -50% RoF bonus, I'm just jerking your chain
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:31:00 - [48] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Not again,,, Marauder is at it's finest *as a torp boat* Why do people insistently refuse to fit it as it was made to be? Because we also like to take advantage of the extra Loot/Salvage, duh.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 12:47:00 - [49] A skilled torp golem goes 500m/s with good equipment. It deals massive amounts of damages when using faction torps (which I really advise to do) compared to cruise missiles. Also, you can't loot the targets before you are within torp range anyways, right? So, by the time you are arriving slowboating with no afterburner, a torp golem will already killed half the rats and looting the wrecks. Not to mention that you can use your drones earlier for the small frigs in Worlds collide first stage. Better try it first before making assumptions about something. I fly a torp golem myself and I would ALWAYS prefer one over a navy raven or cruise golem, cause it's all the minor advantages of marauders combined that make them shine. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Tamoko Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Lol. Took me a few seconds to figure out wtf a NIR was. I don't feel quite so inept, any more. I had no clue. I got "navy" and "raven" (after I read it and realised what he was on about) but I couldnt get the I :D --
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:18:00 - [51] Better try it first before making assumptions about something. I fly a torp golem myself and I would ALWAYS prefer one over a navy raven or cruise golem, cause it's all the minor advantages of marauders combined that make them shine. Like wise, pal, as I did fit up my golem with torps and I'll stick with Cal Navy cruise launchers, thank you.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Ralara Anyway, if I had a Golem, I'd fit it like this: No painter, no range rigs, only 2 bcu's No zmt, DY-1 instead of CC8 ... Cap stable, perma tanks about 900 DPS, dopes 751 DPS with my skills (can get it higher of course) so pretty nice. Overloads for 1342 dps tank. And you know what, it's not even worth "super-fitting" it - DG BCS gives a whopping 20 more DPS ... 44km max range? 47km with Proj 5 + ZML1000. No, not enough. So many fits in this thread that I would never consider using. A PvE torp Golem fit starts with the following mods. (was equipped with the following, yes yes) 3x BCU, best painter, 4x T2 launchers, 2x range rigs. Without the 5% range implant AND Proj 5, a t1 range rigged Torp Golem is already borderline. Without range rigs you've got maybe 3 missions where it's effective. Without painter, jeez, a painter is 100% mandatory, even with javelins. Tbh, in a fit like that you'd probably be better off with Cruises.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:50:00 - [53] I like my set up [Golem, Chainsaw Plankton's golem set up, its funny because Chainsaw doesn't have caldari bs 5, or tech2 torps, or even tactical shield manipulation 4 to use the tech 2 hardeners, but has/had the other stuff, yea I sold most of it so what?] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Hakim's Modified Large Shield Booster Cap Recharger II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hammerhead II x5 perma tanks over 1k gurista incoming dps, hits out over 1k dps coughcheck contracts for the Hakim's Modified Large Shield Booster, go for the buyoutcough
Esperanda	Posted - 2008.07.03 16:08:00 - [54] Im posting with a alt so i dont get suicide ganked, but my main has posted already (cryptic!) GOLEM My old setup was (for most peeps) I did actually type in my fit but then i thought FU work it out urself nubs In addition to this i had a lo-grade snake set in my head. I was using cal navy torps also... the numbers worked out: 1002 dps 7599 volly dmge (enough to 1 volley most cruiusers) 628 perma tanked 1123 max tanked for 2m 22s After realising the potential i spent a few bill and squeezed in a gisti ab also I didnt write the setup this time cuz (FU nubs) i also plugged a hi-grade cyrstal set and imps that suport torp and shield Numbers r 1041 dps 7827 volly (not much improvment here i know) 745 permatanked 1565 Max tanked (a little better) Y spend all those billions to change the nubers by so little? Thats whet ur asking rite??... Well what i did was squeaze a gistii ab on.. I had to drop a sba to make room, this left my tank not as good as i would like. I had to spend a bit on faction/deadspace stuff to make the tank as good minus a slot, while i was spending big i thought y not ditch the cap booster and make it all sustainable so i replaced the cap booster with a t2 cap charger (its practicly afk missioning now) Now for my point... The golem does such gr8 dps and has such a awsome tank know 1 would want to make it better (for what it does). The only thing u can improve is the missiles range. If u spend 600m on t2 rigs u can get a whoping extra km outa ur torps. (awsome) We cant improve range so lets improve on the time it takes to get in range ENter the ab. Now range isnot an issue yay. Patrinization has been turned to the max cus only thick ppl will need to b told this!! BTW every 1 knoes that that the npc`s chance to nullify a missile with defenders is percentage base..... Nice troll tho
Captain Gorlok Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.04 10:34:00 - [55] Without the 5% range implant AND Proj 5, a t1 range rigged Torp Golem is borderline. Without range rigs you've got maybe 3 missions where it's truly effective. Without painter, jeez, a painter is 100% mandatory, even with javelins. Tbh, in a fit like that you'd probably be better off with Cruises. Yah, I'll concede that there's probably 3-4 L4 missions where torps would do better but I'll complete at least one extra mission in place of the time it would take to refit. Oh, did I mention that I have maxed cruise, BS and shield skills, lol. And, that 1.3B spent on the implants helps, too. And, with over 3m in Caldari LPs, Navy missiles do speed my kills up considerably, lol. Now, if I were still out in the Drone Regions, a torp Golem should be uber, lol.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.04 10:56:00 - [56] Again, Trops vs Cruise depends on the persons playstyle more than anything else. E.G A player who wants a afk 3 BCU, x-large booster II permatank setup can simply use a cruise fit. A player who wants max dps and cares little for permatank would use painters, missile range/velocity rigs and torps. Both have seperate needs. They person with the permatank can afk lvl4's while watching tv or while managing several other accounts for pvp or whatever. The torp active pilot would be the looser here. But if people define their goal as max isk, and are able to remain constantly focused on keeping the tank going, then a torp fit is better. Some people do both. A torp fit and a cruise fit. Cruise fit for when they pvp and a torp fit for when they are able to focus. Its a apples and oranges issue. -- Billion Isk Mission
Robert Tyrell	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:33:00 - [57] Edited by: Robert Tyrell on 04/07/2008 11:35:14 Originally by: Esperanda I was using cal navy torps also... the numbers worked out: 1002 dps pfft. And why don't people include drones? You should always include drones, unless of course you don't use them. Quote: 7599 volly dmge (enough to 1 volley most cruiusers) That's odd. In my short test I found even over 8k (raw) faction volley damage is not enough for most cruisers, with 1 painter at Marauder 3, sig focusing 0. That 450 explosion rad is just too big. Maybe with javs...haven't had a chance to test that yet. 5 days to Marauder 4, so unless you're bullshittin', that sounds really good to me, just need those two skills now. BC's on the other hand, those you can one volley even with 7k volley dmg. Quote: If u spend 600m on t2 rigs u can get a whoping extra km outa ur torps. (awsome) That's more like 3 and 5km for T1 and Javs respectively, and it's useful, even if it is expensive.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.04 11:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Watain How can the Caldari Marauder be in anny use during PvE when every BC/BS rat has defender missiles? As Caldari marauder have 4 launcher hardpoints 2 or 3 deffencer missiles can cripple its DPS with 50% to 75%. Whatta ****!!! I dont have a Marauder nor will i ever have it because of this. Discuss caldari marauder I dont have the calcs handy at work but the Golem easily outdamages a CNR even considering defenders. Thats with my current Cruise setup too. Frankly it's the best ship for mission running hands down.
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.07.04 14:38:00 - [59] could someone please post what implants to go for and booster to go for when considering max range/dmg with torps. we already know the fits and rigs for the ship. i've scanned the forums and battleclinic and best so far is around 62km i was sure u can bump that upto 69km i could be wrong though?
Tappits Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.07.05 19:42:00 - [60] Originally by: Helen Gazzaa seems to be the only person who refers to the Navy Issue Raven as NIR as oppossed to the generally used CNR. Its RNI not CNR or NIR same with the thron its a MNI o and the T2 BS thing OP was on about is fine
Waxau Unus - Vir Exercitus	Posted - 2008.07.06 07:52:00 - [61] Edited by: Waxau on 06/07/2008 07:52:40 To save making a thread about it, what about my setup? Curious on its effectiveness on missions. Highs : 4 DG Siege Launchers (faction ammo) 2 Tractors, 1 Salvager Mids : 1 XL Booster, 1 SBA II, 1 Invuln, 2 Rat Spec. Hardeners II, 2 Cap Recharger IIs. Lows : 3 BCU, 1 CPU II Rigs : Hydraulic Bay Thruster I, Rocket Fuel Cashe Partition I Tanks 1.1k dps (440 sustained), and thats without overloading (in any tight screwups), with a DPS of 1022, range of 36km. (Again, without overloading) Wondering if i need an AB on the boat?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.06 08:06:00 - [62] Originally by: Sokratesz Why does this keep coming up like..weekly? I suspect it's because of the hoards of Drake pilots who have watched with dissatisfaction as dozens of their missiles are shot down by Guristas rats. The logical assumption most of these people jump to is that the rats shoot defenders at the same rate no matter what ship you fly. That being said, the simple fact that the issue has been tested to exhaustion, argued about, tested again and then argued over some more would make it seem like the issue has been well and truly settled but since the Eve search tool is so wretched, if a post is further back than one or two pages it will probably never be found. As a tip, use google to search the forums instead - you'll find better luck there.
Helen coracao ardente The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.06 08:14:00 - [63] Originally by: Waxau Edited by: Waxau on 06/07/2008 07:52:40 To save making a thread about it, what about my setup? Curious on its effectiveness on missions. Highs : 4 DG Siege Launchers (faction ammo) 2 Tractors, 1 Salvager Mids : 1 XL Booster, 1 SBA II, 1 Invuln, 2 Rat Spec. Hardeners II, 2 Cap Recharger IIs. Lows : 3 BCU, 1 CPU II Rigs : Hydraulic Bay Thruster I, Rocket Fuel Cashe Partition I Tanks 1.1k dps (440 sustained), and thats without overloading (in any tight screwups), with a DPS of 1022, range of 36km. (Again, without overloading) Wondering if i need an AB on the boat? Except you get range issues because you can't use Javelin torps and you also have no painter, if you want dps fit it properly. You're using some half assed gank/tank setup the Golem either tanks in which case you can easily achieve permatank with cruise, or go with light tank and hit it hard with torps. Personally I'm a big fan of the gank golem, 2 x invuln/CN XL booster with DG amp with AB and painters. 3-4 bcs depending on mission.
Gazzaa29	Posted - 2008.07.06 09:31:00 - [64] Edited by: Gazzaa29 on 06/07/2008 09:32:15 Waxau i know ur good at what u do, ive read most of ur replys on the hictor threads and nodded in agreement to 98% of ur posts.. Your missing the mark here a bit tho m8, if ur gonna get tempted to fit faction sieges then u atleast need a ab fitted. we fit t2 launchers because there will always b a time when sum f***ing red cross gets 55km away from u.. The dps, and salvo dmge is totally acceptable wiv t2 launchers fitted (ur gonna really really want the option for javs at some point). Also fit a painter, its 1 piece of essential kit for a torp spewing bs especially when there a bonas for it. Id make a ever so slight adjustment to the lows too. Im pritty sure ive nailed the golem. Mail me ingame if u like, id b more than happiy to let u know my setups and talk over its philosophy
Waxau Unus - Vir Exercitus	Posted - 2008.07.06 09:41:00 - [65] Originally by: Gazzaa29 Edited by: Gazzaa29 on 06/07/2008 09:32:15 Waxau i know ur good at what u do, ive read most of ur replys on the hictor threads and nodded in agreement to 98% of ur posts.. Your missing the mark here a bit tho m8, if ur gonna get tempted to fit faction sieges then u atleast need a ab fitted. we fit t2 launchers because there will always b a time when sum f***ing red cross gets 55km away from u.. The dps, and salvo dmge is totally acceptable wiv t2 launchers fitted (ur gonna really really want the option for javs at some point). Also fit a painter, its 1 piece of essential kit for a torp spewing bs especially when there a bonas for it. Id make a ever so slight adjustment to the lows too. Im pritty sure ive nailed the golem. Mail me ingame if u like, id b more than happiy to let u know my setups and talk over its philosophy Thanks for the post mate. Appreciate it. Ive used a Cruise CNR all the time, so didnt really have a clue since the torp nerf. To Helen, the 'half assed' gank/tank setup is the tank i achieved on my CNR, which was perfectly adequate for its role, and use. Difference is dps, and ofc range. Sad thing is, that i went Chimera, not Phoenix - So never bothered with t2 torps, hence the faction fit for now. Thanks for the replies. ps - Already had a painter on, but twas one of my 'whatif' setups
Waxau Unus - Vir Exercitus	Posted - 2008.07.06 11:39:00 - [66] Curious here actually. Just tried it in an Angel Extravaganza, and whilst i didnt have any actual trouble, i could see my cap being an issue. The AB is indeed a useful bit, and target painter aswell. Should i replace my BCU or two with a CPR? Seeing as how the bonus of the Golem is pretty much void (Guessing atleast, seeing as how my CNR could tank just fine, without the %5 per level). Any ideas folks?
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.07.08 10:53:00 - [67] i've looked into imlants for a golem fit and this is what i come up with. Also isk being not a issue here. slot 1= crystal alpha ( 1% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 2= crystal beta ( 2% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 3= crystal gamma ( 3% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 4= crystal delta ( 4% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 5= crystal epsilon ( 5% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 6= crystal omega (Primary Effect: 50% bonus to the strength of all Crystal implant secondary effects) slot 7= hardwiring - zainou 'gnome' kva2000 (5% Bonus to shield capacity) slot 8= hardwiring - inherent implants 'squire' cc8 ( boosts the pilot's skill at energy management, capacitor bonus 5 ) slot 9= hardwiring - zainou 'gnome' kya2000 ( boosts the recharge rate of the shields of the pilots ship, rechargerate bonus -5 ) slot 10= hardwiring - zainou 'deadeye' zmm1000 ( 5% bonus to all missile launcher rate of fire) i havent had alook yet into want would be the overall bonuses once everything has been added up. anyone else agree with these implants or not?
Arana Tellen Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.08 11:11:00 - [68] Originally by: Hellspawn666 Well would you prefer a 100%ROF bonus? that way you spend loads of ammo and need more cargo. 0 second ROF with reload = 4 torps every second (average) and volly damage = to 40 torps or 80 standard --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.08 11:14:00 - [69] Yeah it sucks basically. Use a normal Raven / CNR. Nothing special, not big or clever, just 20 fighters and one hell of a tank....
Arana Tellen Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.08 11:28:00 - [70] Originally by: Ciaphas Cian i've looked into imlants for a golem fit and this is what i come up with. Also isk being not a issue here. slot 1= crystal alpha ( 1% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 2= crystal beta ( 2% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 3= crystal gamma ( 3% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 4= crystal delta ( 4% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 5= crystal epsilon ( 5% bonus to shield boost amount ) slot 6= crystal omega (Primary Effect: 50% bonus to the strength of all Crystal implant secondary effects) slot 7= hardwiring - zainou 'gnome' kva2000 (5% Bonus to shield capacity) slot 8= hardwiring - inherent implants 'squire' cc8 ( boosts the pilot's skill at energy management, capacitor bonus 5 ) slot 9= hardwiring - zainou 'gnome' kya2000 ( boosts the recharge rate of the shields of the pilots ship, rechargerate bonus -5 ) slot 10= hardwiring - zainou 'deadeye' zmm1000 ( 5% bonus to all missile launcher rate of fire) i havent had alook yet into want would be the overall bonuses once everything has been added up. anyone else agree with these implants or not? There are 5% torp or 5% cruise damage implants. --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.07.08 12:13:00 - [71] yeah there is i did look into this but considering the fit you would have your going to have alot of dps. due to trying to get a max range i would see you losing out on slots used for cap regen and the implants would cover that in part due to there bonus.
Arazel Chainfire USC Militia	Posted - 2008.07.08 13:49:00 - [72] Originally by: Waxau Curious here actually. Just tried it in an Angel Extravaganza, and whilst i didnt have any actual trouble, i could see my cap being an issue. The AB is indeed a useful bit, and target painter aswell. Should i replace my BCU or two with a CPR? Seeing as how the bonus of the Golem is pretty much void (Guessing atleast, seeing as how my CNR could tank just fine, without the %5 per level). Any ideas folks? Are you looking for a permabooster setup? Personally, I rarely fly with a permatank (sole exception is the AFK domi), and the only thing I really look at is does it have enough cap to be able to boost for about 3 minutes. Three minutes is usually enough time to kill half or more of an aggro group, at which point the dps will be low enough that you can turn off the booster/repairer until you need it again. However, i use large shield boosters on my ravens, really don't see the point of XL. Also, i'm assuming that you're reffering to the boost amount bonus? Quite frankly, I would just drop a shield boost amp (with the bonus, its not really needed), and put on an extra cap recharger if I felt I needed more cap. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Mathafern Tealby Mining Corp	Posted - 2008.07.08 14:24:00 - [73] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Fzhal Agreed but the LP can payout very well too. Also I love being able to loot and salvage while popping BS's. Usually I'll have all the large and medium wrecks looted and salvaged by the time I kill the last rat. So I don't have to waste time bringing back for loot pickup! That 1,225 M3 cargo is so sweet! Wait until you realize you can use a heavy injector and fit 36 cap booster 800s + ammo in there and do AE Bonus room without warping out. I love the notion of filling the hold with 800's, but have to wonder why you need it for AE Bonus- I've got no problem tanking this without injector, just loading up with some extra thermal resist instead of an AB. Then again I use cruise missiles so I don't need the AB. 120 km target range ftw ;)
JenDen Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.07.08 18:42:00 - [74] Originally by: Mathafern Then again I use cruise missiles so I don't need the AB. 120 km target range ftw ;) I always thought people use AB to get to acceleration gate faster, and it has nothing to do with cruise/torp choice pretty much, as torp range is just enough for any mission. - Sig: StackNerfing * GangLinks
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.07.10 13:45:00 - [75] does anyone know the full max range for torpws with implants and missle skills to max?
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.11 08:23:00 - [76] Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 11/07/2008 08:23:41 Originally by: Helen Personally I'm a big fan of the gank golem, 2 x invuln/CN XL booster with DG amp with AB and painters. 3-4 bcs depending on mission. This... I use the same setup on mine apart from the difference that I only use one painter, and a third hardener instead. One painter should be enough for battleships and battlecruiser so I prefer a slightly better tank. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
Ciryadin FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.07.11 09:45:00 - [77] Edited by: Ciryadin on 11/07/2008 09:54:59 My golem. Low: 3x DG BCS 1x DC II Mid: 1x Gist-X XL SB 1x Pith-X SB Amp 1x DG Invul Field 3x DG Specific Hardners 1x TS Medium Capacitor (800) High: 4x SML II 2x STB 1x DLA Rigs: 1x HBT I 1x RFCP I Can permatank on 800 charges. Can nearly permatank on 400 charges. 91%+ main/86%+ off resists on dual missions resists (e.g. Sansha/Angel etc) 140k Eff HP. T2 Jav Torps : 740 dps/5500 volley, 63km range +160 dps for 5x HH II's T2 Jav Torps : 740 dps/5500 volley, 69km range +160 dps for 5x HH II's (T2 Rigs) Faction Torps: 1050 dps/7600 volley, 42km range. + 160 dps for 5x HH 2's Faction Torps: 1050 dps/7600 volley, 46km range. + 160 dps for 5x HH 2's (T2 Rigs) Implants: Crystal Set 5% missile velocity 5% capacitor 5% recharge 5% rof Active shielding handles 1900 dps, shieldboosting can take 5k dps =P ( <3 crystal set) And yes, i got practically all skill on 5.
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.09.11 14:41:00 - [78] ryadin could you produce a price list of the mods you use to give me a idea of the cost involved in your setup.
Waxau The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.11 14:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Ciaphas Cian ryadin could you produce a price list of the mods you use to give me a idea of the cost involved in your setup. Or you could do some of the work yourself, look on contracts, and get 100% trustworthy info.
Ciaphas Cian	Posted - 2008.09.11 14:51:00 - [80] i've looked into prices and it runs into hundreds of mils of isk. i only asked on here for him to do a edit of his post as im using it as a point of reference
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.11 15:53:00 - [81] Originally by: Ciryadin Edited by: Ciryadin on 11/07/2008 09:54:59 My golem. ... 1x TS Medium Capacitor (800) ... ... Can permatank on 800 charges. Can nearly permatank on 400 charges. ... *Sig* Originally by: Cpt Branko That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.09.11 15:53:00 - [82] Edited by: Arakidias on 11/09/2008 15:54:05 My golem setup. 4x T2 Siege 3x Tractor beams 1x Pwnage painter 1x Pith A-type Large shield booster (250m or so) 3x Mission specific t2 hardeners 1x T2 SBA 1x Medium Electrochemical capacitor booster (loaded with 800) 4x DG/CN BCU 1x T2 HBT (230m or so) 1x T1 RCFP with the 5% torp damage implant and faction ammo it has 8k+ alpha. with the 5% missile velocity implant it has a realistic range of about 40km. Relatively cheap, with about 550m in mods and rigs, but quite effective.

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