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Ulstan Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:16:00 - [211] Originally by: Akara Tanashian Anyone else think it's hilarious that the milita corps (I use the plural lightly, as I can only see Caldari whiners here), who've expressed an interest in PvP feel they need more protection from wardecs than a random highsec mining corp? I do find it odd. Presumably one joins the FW militias in order to PvP. Therefore having people war dec you shouldn't be an unwelcome or unexpected event. I think the navy mechanics do need ironing out so that a corp in the militia who gets war decced isn't at a huge disadvantage, but that's about all really. Being able to war dec militia corps should stay. Of course, I find it equally odd that people are suggesting folks would use the militas, which are at permanent war with thousands of other pilots and enemy NPC navies, as a means of avoiding conflict.
Erenis Takthor	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:19:00 - [212] Originally by: Jade Constantine You are confusing direct membership of the Militia (as you yourself have) and indirect membership of the militia through corp affiliation (as in the case of FCR and others). Your character is a loyalist sworn directly to Heth's cause Ulsan and you are protected by Concord from 3rd party interference and your faction navy from enemy militia interference. But members of corps that have simply affilitated with militias are a different case - consider them privateers or freelancers or contracted help. They are not direct militia members and they are not held to the same standards of association (ie their individual memebers do not need the standings you do). If I understand your vision correctly, then you want to fight the factions. You want to engage in factional warfare, but instead of using gameplay mechanics in place, you want to circumvent the non-alliance limitation by war deccing corps, that are, through your eyes, only indirectly associated with the faction you are fighting with. So you are actually not fighting the faction, only the corporations and thus not acting like you say you are. Wouldn't it all just be more simple if you were to engage the factions in fair fights, taking the security hits yourselves, as you suggested we should do to protect our fleetmates, and taking on the militia as a militia, and not as some single corps. I also agree with the proposal made in the assembly hall forum, however if people decide not to help each other then its still useless. Some people simply dont want to find themselves camped in their favorite mission hub and thus will not agree to this, we would need a player-based voting system to utilise this to its full extent. Can you please explain to me why you want to war dec several corps instead of taking the fight to low sec, and use other game mechanics? The low sec tactic seems to fit the guerilla style a little more, but thats only my opinion. Take on players in the black rise/placid regions, were they come to fight.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:38:00 - [213] Originally by: Kelsin Pithecanthropus, it's fine to want to engage in a discussion of game mechanics, but you derail the whole thing with that attitude. Rephrase it without the insults and we can talk. I haven't insulted you. The above quote alone tells me you have no answer, and I've been nice. Trust me, you don't want me to actually insult you. Personally, I'm insulted that you think I was giving you attitude. Tell you what, let's not talk... cuz I don't want to talk to you anymore. You're naive. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Haakelen Gallente Genesis Rising	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:43:00 - [214] Originally by: Kelsin Pithecanthropus, it's fine to want to engage in a discussion of game mechanics, but you derail the whole thing with that attitude. Rephrase it without the insults and we can talk. it's pithecanthropus, don't even bother
Ayrianna Nagaya	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:51:00 - [215] Wow... most of the people supporting Jade's views are part of Star Fraction. No surprise there. This is what I find imbalancing about the current system. FCR is in Nourv organizing a fleet. They are at a planet and getting others from other Militia corps and the NPC militia together. SF comes in and finds them. They warp in and attack. Now the fleet which was put together and balanced according to all the militia members that were there, are reduced to only the ships that were in FCR. what if FCR was the DPS and State Pro was providing the ECM? Or the tackling? Now Star Fraction has the protection of CONCORD from the rest of the fleet. They can fully attack all the FCR ships and slaughter them. Why does SF get CONCORD protection from a war targets allies? Thats imbalance. When you dec a Caldari Militia corp (or ANY faction) you should face the wrath of thier NPC navy the same as if the Gallente tried to fight Caldari in high sec space. Star Fraction should be able to dec FCR. BUT they should have to fight them in low sec where they are prepared to fight. Just like the Gallente Militia has to. Star Fraction is getting an ADVANTAGE that the Gallente Militia are not afforded. This makes me sick that Jade is a CSM. I will vote for him to be removed.
Ayrianna Nagaya	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:57:00 - [216] Edited by: Ayrianna Na*a on 02/07/2008 21:59:22 Another thing I want to add: I see players arguing against the OP and what we think is unfair because they think that people are trying to avoid PvP. 100% wrong. Militia corps fight in low sec. If you want to fight them, fight them there. This is not the same as alliance warfare. FW is a DIFFERANT mechanic that is supposed to play by DIFFERANT rules. Why do you think it takes time for the NPC navy to respond? Why do you think the NPC navy isn't as uber as CONCORD? Why don't they scram? Because they want the militia to have the ability to go into the opposing side and do suicide runs. It wont happen all that much as you will probably lose your ship if you stick around for too long. They should not be able to camp high sec gates. That is unfair. That is what SF gets to do. If I wanted immunity from war decs I join an NPC corp. EASY. People in these corps are not avoiding war decs, they want to organize to learn how to PvP. They don't need Alliances crapping all over FW.
Marlana Eston	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:03:00 - [217] Edited by: Marlana Eston on 02/07/2008 22:04:09 Edited by: Marlana Eston on 02/07/2008 22:03:41 Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a FCR is in Nourv organizing a fleet. They are at a planet and getting others from other Militia corps and the NPC militia together. SF comes in and finds them. This makes me sick that Jade is a CSM. I will vote for him to be removed. Perhaps corps that are wardecced shouldn't be forming up in Nourv anymore? Ulstan has a point about it being unfair and an imbalanced that npc navy attacks them and not the one's that instigated the wardec. I don't think anyone has argued against that point. If only mwd could be fueled with tears.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:09:00 - [218] Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a FCR is in Nourv organizing a fleet. To camp the hisec side again... <rimshot> *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Ayrianna Nagaya	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:10:00 - [219] Originally by: Marlana Eston Perhaps corps that are wardecced shouldn't be forming up in Nourv anymore? Ulstan has a point about it being unfair and an imbalanced that npc navy attacks them and not the one's that instigated the wardec. I don't think anyone has argued against that point. If only mwd could be fueled with tears. That was a horrible argument. I was using that as an example. Tehy could form up in Piak, Nonni, Onnoman or anywhere. Its not hard to find where people oraganize. Locater AGgts? yeah. Plus SF camps the gates to and from each entry point to catch stragglers.
Marlana Eston	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:18:00 - [220] Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a That was a horrible argument. I was using that as an example. Tehy could form up in Piak, Nonni, Onnoman or anywhere. Its not hard to find where people oraganize. Locater AGgts? yeah. Plus SF camps the gates to and from each entry point to catch stragglers. If they are in lowsec friends won't get donked. They could easily avoid any sec-hit there if they waited just one second to help out. Not optimal, but rather than cry about it, sign nVChicy's proposal in the Assembly Hall.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:33:00 - [221] Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a Wow... most of the people supporting Jade's views are part of Star Fraction. No surprise there. This is what I find imbalancing about the current system. FCR is in Nourv organizing a fleet. They are at a planet and getting others from other Militia corps and the NPC militia together. SF comes in and finds them. They warp in and attack. Now the fleet which was put together and balanced according to all the militia members that were there, are reduced to only the ships that were in FCR. what if FCR was the DPS and State Pro was providing the ECM? Or the tackling? Now Star Fraction has the protection of CONCORD from the rest of the fleet. They can fully attack all the FCR ships and slaughter them. Why does SF get CONCORD protection from a war targets allies? Thats imbalance. When you dec a Caldari Militia corp (or ANY faction) you should face the wrath of thier NPC navy the same as if the Gallente tried to fight Caldari in high sec space. Star Fraction should be able to dec FCR. BUT they should have to fight them in low sec where they are prepared to fight. Just like the Gallente Militia has to. Star Fraction is getting an ADVANTAGE that the Gallente Militia are not afforded. This makes me sick that Jade is a CSM. I will vote for him to be removed. The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for. We have decided to mess with your muster in hisec and assassinate your command and control because you have formed a corporation associated with the Militia - if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation. If you are sick to see a CSM rep advocating this position then you are sick with the majority of players who elected me. You are in the minority here and need to appreciate that on this issue you are the one that needs to shape up and learn to play the game of eve as it is rather than trying to whine into existence the idealized game of eve that exists in your mind. The moment you formed a "command and control" corp in the Caldari Militia you became a target. You decided to raise your head from the barricades - don't act surprised about it when somebody decides to shoot you in the face. This is eve online - not my little pony online. Actions have consequence. Deal with that. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Surreptitious Isk Sink Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:48:00 - [222] Nobody likes a crybaby, especially in a videogame where consequences are imaginary. Syrup
Dihania Gallente Mucho Dolor	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:48:00 - [223] Originally by: Market AltLOLOLOLO Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 29/06/2008 14:33:46 Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 29/06/2008 14:33:26 The fact you can join a NPC milita corp makes a mockery of the alliance wardec. 20man milita mixed gang. The alliance can attack the 2-3 wardecees and the rest of the milita can only watch helplessly. Either fix it so enemy milita can fight without sec loss/concord or fix it. Also people in the same milita can wardec each other which is the height of stupididy. I mean, the system needs to be fixed. A Caldari enemy can join the caldari milita and wardec caldari minita corps and caldari navy wont step in. There is no RP reasoning for allowing Gallente greifer corps to operate this way. It is only ok if the rest of the milita steps in. after reading your posts I thing you are missing some.... in da head! I now petition for a ignore option for the forums. Also who knows the main of this clown ? 1. militia acts like alliance => PERFECT. Alliances will war dec you to hell 2. corps within the militia war dec each other => WHY WOULD THEY NOT ? 2 corps can have infinite reasons to fight, no matter within which organization, same as 2 corps outside any.. 3. think before you post 4. POST WITH YOUR MAIN YOU PINK!!! . EVE: "The Hand-holding Age". I need isk!Accepting donations. Renting sig space.Taking various jobs.
Slave 775 Privateers	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:51:00 - [224] Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for. We have decided to mess with your muster in hisec and assassinate your command and control because you have formed a corporation associated with the Militia - if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation. If you are sick to see a CSM rep advocating this position then you are sick with the majority of players who elected me. You are in the minority here and need to appreciate that on this issue you are the one that needs to shape up and learn to play the game of eve as it is rather than trying to whine into existence the idealized game of eve that exists in your mind. The moment you formed a "command and control" corp in the Caldari Militia you became a target. You decided to raise your head from the barricades - don't act surprised about it when somebody decides to shoot you in the face. This is eve online - not my little pony online. Actions have consequence. Deal with that. AMEN This boils down to one point: You guys want to be safe from the people wardeccing you in your faction high sec. What will happen if a caldari milita corp wants to dec your caldari miltia corp because you **ed them off (loot stealing comes to mind) ? EVE ONLINE** Adapt or die ? more like: go and whine on the ForumsÖ
Skyy Caldari Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:05:00 - [225] Edited by: Skyy on 02/07/2008 23:06:32 Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for. Well then leave, since deccing a war with any Caldari militia enables you to be safe in Gallente space. You're a hypocrite. Quote: We have decided to mess with your muster in hisec and assassinate your command and control because you have formed a corporation associated with the Militia - if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation. we're not in this to be safe in high sec... this is a debate about you being safe in high sec. Thus, YOU are the ones abusing the system. We're safe where we belong, you are safe where you have no right to be when fighting a militia. Quote: If you are sick to see a CSM rep advocating this position then you are sick with the majority of players who elected me. You are in the minority here and need to appreciate that on this issue you are the one that needs to shape up and learn to play the game of eve as it is rather than trying to whine into existence the idealized game of eve that exists in your mind. you will soon lose your position, so believe what you want... whatever makes you get thru the day. Quote: The moment you formed a "command and control" corp in the Caldari Militia you became a target. You decided to raise your head from the barricades - don't act surprised about it when somebody decides to shoot you in the face. This is eve online - not my little pony online. Actions have consequence. Deal with that. We are targets for the opposing militia, that was made clear from the moment we signed up. Shoot us all you want, it's part of the game, but the irony here is YOU are the ones playing "My Little Pony", looking for weak tactics and lame mechanics for a selfish ego trip and your own agenda. Thus my friend, I hereby nominate myself for your position in CSM. You do not have this community as a whole in mind. May the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
Dihania Gallente Mucho Dolor	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:06:00 - [226] Do you understand the game mechanics behind player OWNED corporations ? Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a FCR is in Nourv organizing a fleet. They are at a planet and getting others from other Militia corps and the NPC militia together. SF comes in and finds them. They warp in and attack. Now the fleet which was put together and balanced according to all the militia members that were there, are reduced to only the ships that were in FCR. what if FCR was the DPS and State Pro was providing the ECM? Or the tackling? Now Star Fraction has the protection of CONCORD from the rest of the fleet. They can fully attack all the FCR ships and slaughter them. Well any alliance in game can war dec any player corporation in game. Why ? I hope you do need to ask . Maybe FCR should think about their situation: We are at war with SF. Prepare for that WAR (that front) . Example? "Nation A" is at war with "Nation B" and "Nation C". If "nation A" fights "Nation B", but ignores "Nation C", than gets overrun by said "Nation C", who's fault is it? "X" and "Y" fight together towards a common enemy "A". "X" also fights against enemy "K", but "K" and "Y" are not at war. X and K and Y meet and X fights K. Should Y intervene? If the players in the militia want to help FCR fight an enemy that is NOT involved in FW they have the game mechanics. Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a Why does SF get CONCORD protection from a war targets allies? Thats imbalance. When you dec a Caldari Militia corp (or ANY faction) you should face the wrath of thier NPC navy the same as if the Gallente tried to fight Caldari in high sec space. ONLY if you are allowed to participate in FW with an ALLIANCE or war dec the faction militia Originally by: Ayrianna Na*a Star Fraction should be able to dec FCR. BUT they should have to fight them in low sec where they are prepared to fight. Just like the Gallente Militia has to. WHEN AT WAR YOU SHOULD BE PREPARED TO FIGHT ALL THE TIME. If your enemy catches you with your pants down IT IS YOUR FAULT Stop whining ! . EVE: "The Hand-holding Age". I need isk!Accepting donations. Renting sig space.Taking various jobs.
Cead Lothian State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:09:00 - [227] Edited by: Cead Lothian on 02/07/2008 23:11:46 Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for......if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation... This is eve online - not my little pony online. Actions have consequence. Deal with that. Im not sure if your being deliberately obtuse or not, but this is exactly what star fraction is doing by war deccing a corp in a faction militia. I expect that disband is coming soon then right? You get to fight in caldari space whilst being invulnerable to them in Gallente High sec. You do see this right? im not sure how many times the other guy has to repeat that this is the imbalance that he wants addressed.
Spineker Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:14:00 - [228] Who voted for that idiot again? I think it is fine if you wardec a corp I just think it should be realistic that they would be considered mercenaries of a foreign power and have to fight the entire FW alliance.
Spineker Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:15:00 - [229] Originally by: Cead Lothian Edited by: Cead Lothian on 02/07/2008 23:11:46 Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for......if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation... This is eve online - not my little pony online. Actions have consequence. Deal with that. Im not sure if your being deliberately obtuse or not, but this is exactly what star fraction is doing by war deccing a corp in a faction militia. I expect that disband is coming soon then right? You get to fight in caldari space whilst being invulnerable to them in Gallente High sec. You do see this right? im not sure how many times the other guy has to repeat that this is the imbalance that he wants addressed. They should be war targets for everyone in the militia period. As if an alliance would allow some backasswards corp kill one of their member corps people with no response.
Marlana Eston	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:18:00 - [230] Edited by: Marlana Eston on 02/07/2008 23:19:57 Again, that's an issue still unresolved. FW is a new system. People like yourself find these problems and point them out. I haven't seen anyone in this thread argue that it's okay for the FW related corp to deal with npc navy when the out-of-FW corp does not. It's unbalanced at this point, but we can hope that through threads like this we can refine FW. I horrible at quoting :(
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:21:00 - [231] Originally by: Skyy Well then leave, since deccing a war with any Caldari militia enables you to be safe in Gallente space. You're a hypocrite. We're in Caldari Space. And we're at exactly the same risk we place you at. Wardec means you can shoot back. Stop crying "exploit" and start fighting back. Honestly, at the moment you are just embarrassing yourselves. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Spineker Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:22:00 - [232] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Skyy Well then leave, since deccing a war with any Caldari militia enables you to be safe in Gallente space. You're a hypocrite. We're in Caldari Space. And we're at exactly the same risk we place you at. Wardec means you can shoot back. Stop crying "exploit" and start fighting back. Honestly, at the moment you are just embarrassing yourselves. Then allow the entire alliance to fire back see how long you talk about "This is Eve" when you have been podded a few times
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:22:00 - [233] Originally by: Spineker Who voted for that idiot again? I think it is fine if you wardec a corp I just think it should be realistic that they would be considered mercenaries of a foreign power and have to fight the entire FW alliance. I'd agree with you. I think any wardec against a part of an FW Militia should put us in a state of war with all the FW Militia. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:23:00 - [234] Originally by: Spineker Then allow the entire alliance to fire back see how long you talk about "This is Eve" when you have been podded a few times I wish the entire militia was at war with anybody wardeccing single Militia corps. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Dihania Gallente Mucho Dolor	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:25:00 - [235] Originally by: Spineker I think it is fine if you wardec a corp I just think it should be realistic that they would be considered mercenaries of a foreign power and have to fight the entire FW alliance. THIS! /signed . EVE: "The Hand-holding Age". I need isk!Accepting donations. Renting sig space.Taking various jobs.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:33:00 - [236] Originally by: Cead Lothian Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for..... if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation. Im going to quote this again in hopes that you actually answer it. Considering this is exactly the situation corps war deccing militia corps are in, (like your own) how exactly can you say this is balanced? Given that you were an FCR pilot who had an active wardec from our organization and had full rights to shoot back against SF ships without the interference of any npc force (in NOUV) - and given you chose instead to abandon your corp mates and skip back to the npc Militia entity to protect yourself from our wardec. I don't think you have very much to say in this discussion Caed Lothian. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Lucai Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:33:00 - [237] Edited by: Lucai on 02/07/2008 23:35:39 Like were looking for safety. /me laughs her ass off. Since the wardecs went live i spent every online minute in Caldari space or lowsec, looking for fights. We can shoot you there, you can shoot us. Wheres the imbalance again? Name one instance were you drove us off and we hid in Gallente Space. Oh, you cant? Could be cause were in your space, and youre the ones doing the hiding. You, know, were not wardeccing people to hide from them, were doing it to fight them. And regarding Quote: Then allow the entire alliance to fire back see how long you talk about "This is Eve" when you have been podded a few times We cant do that, CCP didnt implement that option. If you can, please do so. Just let all Caldari FW corps wardec us. Bring it on. Were waiting, and smiling broadly.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:34:00 - [238] Originally by: Skyy Originally by: Jade Constantine We're in Caldari Space. And we're at exactly the same risk we place you at. Wardec means you can shoot back. Stop crying "exploit" and start fighting back. Honestly, at the moment you are just embarrassing yourselves. Roll-eyes smiley is all very well but perhaps you'd like to answer the point? CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Dihania Gallente Mucho Dolor	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:39:00 - [239] Originally by: Cead Lothian Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for..... This is correct. Originally by: Cead Lothian Originally by: Jade Constantine if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation. This is also correct, the game gives you an option, disband, then the war is over. Originally by: Cead Lothian Im going to quote this again in hopes that you actually answer it. Considering this is exactly the situation corps war deccing militia corps are in, (like your own) how exactly can you say this is balanced? A corporation in militia can escape the war by disbanding. The members can than create a new corporation or join a NPC corporation. Any other corporation is subject to war decs for obvious reasons. You must understand that corporations part of FW are not special. The only special corporations ever are npc ones. Say.. corp A, player owned, is in militia. BUT they also mine and sell on market and haul and mission run in a certain area of high sec. Corp B is annoyed by this because it is "their turf". So corp B declares war on Corp A. I do not see any imbalance. . EVE: "The Hand-holding Age". I need isk!Accepting donations. Renting sig space.Taking various jobs.
Cead Lothian State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 23:40:00 - [240] Edited by: Cead Lothian on 02/07/2008 23:43:46 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Cead Lothian Originally by: Jade Constantine The bottom line is you want controlled arena pvp where you get to fight in lowsec and get protected in highsec but sorry Eve is not the game you are looking for..... if you want to be "safe" in hisec disband the corporation. Im going to quote this again in hopes that you actually answer it. Considering this is exactly the situation corps war deccing militia corps are in, (like your own) how exactly can you say this is balanced? Given that you were an FCR pilot who had an active wardec from our organization and had full rights to shoot back against SF ships without the interference of any npc force (in NOUV) - and given you chose instead to abandon your corp mates and skip back to the npc Militia entity to protect yourself from our wardec. I don't think you have very much to say in this discussion Caed Lothian. dear me jade, your scraping the barrel abit here. yes i was in one of the corps you war decced, and i rather enjoyed myself on the occasions it wasnt just plain ganks, the time we were expecting the usual support you had had around earlier and you jumped in a bunch of bs's on us was pretty fun. My reasons for leaving the corp have very little to do with your good self, so dont flatter yourself. You've still not answered the question tho, and for someone who claims to be able to see 'the bigger picture' your fairly bad at giving others the same benefit of the doubt. p.s. Cead :((((

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POST WITH YOUR MAIN YOU PINK!!!

Stop whining !