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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
FluffyDice
StarFckers Inc. The Jagged Alliance
68
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Posted - 2012.03.16 02:13:00 -
[91] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:solution, put mines back in just make them disappear if you leave the system. I have failed entirely to see what this is solving or responding to. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
1
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Posted - 2012.03.16 02:48:00 -
[92] - Quote
You should make a dev blog about this. 1) List all items that were removed from the DB 2) Evemail ALL players who had such items deleted. 3) EMAIL ALL players who have an offline account to say you deleted their stuff. 4) Look on the Test_Server or other server mirrors for blueprint info (even if it takes you 10 days to do it by hand) (the fact that a dev doesnt even know he can do this is shocking and shows why they shouldnt be allowed to delete stuff). 5) Kiss some serious ....
In the past names of items have been changed too. So just because something says "UNUSED" doesnt mean it wasnt once in game. I have an item that has changed Name, Type, and Graphic ID SEVERAL times. By your logic I shouldnt have it because when It is not the "thing" I acquired. A lot of new players will not know what the Jovian parts are for either, are you going to remove those too?.. It also means that if something today got renamed to "Unused" that someone would have the moronic idea to delete it some time in the future.
If there is some HUGE REASON to remove something then talk to the owners (I doubt there's many).. I bet some would be more than happy for you to make some things non-functioning or even add some other odd change to keep them in game.
Deleting stuff that players owned was just down and out stupid. If you screw up and need to remove something, don't wait 8 years to go about fixing it. And as said, It's likely that the people deleting this stuff has no idea why some of it was in game or if it ever played a role at all in the game. |
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
526
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Posted - 2012.03.16 05:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
thanks greyscale, i have had to hold entity until he sleeps for some night now anything you can do to help would be appreciated.
www.shipsofeve.com
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Momoyo
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
8
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Posted - 2012.03.16 05:48:00 -
[94] - Quote
I can only imagine how much entity or someone would have paid for that enigma if ccp had let those guys keep it. Its not like anyone can fly the damn thing so its uber stats aren't gonna break the game. |
Hockston Axe
99
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Posted - 2012.03.16 06:21:00 -
[95] - Quote
When you restore my stuff, will they be usable in public contracts? I know the mines and their bpo's weren't before. I hope nothing else disappears from my collection hangars again, ever. |
Jaden Mars
Old Spice l EveBowl Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.16 13:38:00 -
[96] - Quote
I've gained a lot of joy out of seeing the fittings of things like the CONCORD Swat Cruiser with the Mega Droner, Miner-China, the CONCORD battleship, the Jovian ships (and their fits), etc....
As I look - all but three of those fits have now been *poofed*... the Cockroach, Enigma & Visitant are still listed - but their fits have been changed to very boring T1/T2 items.... (on the plus side, this means attacking the audience of Jovian ships at the next Alliance Tournament might net some fantastic killmails)
Seriously CCP, it's bad enough that you took stuff out of my hangar & didn't make any attempt to list it in the Patch Notes (DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT) - but you took absolutely HARMLESS fits out of my fitting management that I could laugh with n00bs and corpmates alike in looking at the ridiculous attributes of those TEST items.... what was the harm in that (or the benefit of removing them.... they could not have impacted server load).
Entity wrote:Regardless of how they entered the game (accidental or intentional), they are a part of the game's rich history for better and for worse. They do not harm the game in any way, and are great conversation starters.
Deleting player owned items = Deleting the game's legacy. Don't do it, CCP.
+1
While I wait, I guess I'll just spam Jita with some ASCII and a link to this thread. . GöîGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÉ GöéGòöGòªGòùGòæGòæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòæGòöGûæGòöGòùGöé GöéGûæGòæGûæGòáGòúGòáGòúGòæGòæGòáGò¬GòùGòÜGòùGöé GöéGûæGòæGûæGòæGòæGòæGòæGòæGòæGòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥Göé GöéGòæGûæGòæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòæGòæGòªGòöGòù GöéGòÜGòÉGòúGòæGòæGòæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòáGòúGòæGòæGòæ GöéGûæGûæGòæGòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGòæGûæGòæGòæGò¬GòæGòæ GöéGûæGòöGòÉGòÉGòùGòöGòÉGòÉGòùGòöGòÉGòÉGòùGûæGöé GöéGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòáGòÉGòÉGò¥GûæGöé GöéGûæGòÜGòÉGòÉGò¥GòÜGòÉGòÉGò¥GòæGûæGûæGûæGûæGöé GööGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÇGöÿ |
Daisuke Aoki
Concordiat Concordiat Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.16 13:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
I'm not even a collector and I find this disgusting.
CCP, listen to what Entity is saying and return what you've taken. Every item, mistakenly put there or not (which, as he said, many, including the "UNUSED" drones were NOT mistakenly in the game) represents a part of Eve's history.
If someone with such a high in-game profile as Entity is considering leaving, THINK about what you're doing. And think about who else might follow.
At the very least, you're putting a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths right now for no good reason. |
Castelo Selva
Forcas armadas Moon Warriors
2
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Posted - 2012.03.16 13:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
To be honest, I really think CCP was changing his course after Crucible, but I am in doubt right now. The real problem here it not the unintentional delete of items, but the TRUE desire to take items from player hands. These items, if should be at player hand or not, was not acquired by cheat / bot / or other non approved mechanism. They were acquired by normal game play, and so, MUST stay with players. It is like the recent enigma ship. Players get it by normal approved tranquillity game play. And so on the enigma should belong to the player, and not be removed and changed by plex (or anything else). If the enigma was drop by a lousy / careless CCP guy, I do not care. Fire him, but not change tranquillity. If something went wrong and when CCP find it, and there was NO player interaction, I am fine if CCP do whatever they want to do. BUT if there was a minimum interaction by player, nothing must change.
That is the real treat about what in going on, the CCP vision: Let take everything that should not be at player hand (without warning) and tell player to deal with it... |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
878
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Posted - 2012.03.16 14:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Fittings including non-existent types cause the fitting manager to fail to open properly. They were removed so that you could actually look at your fittings again. (And no, before someone suggests it, we don't want to make our code more complex and harder to maintain and therefore more likely to break just to support the handful of people who want to import invalid fittings for fun.)
I'm going to fix up the name on the Improved drone and put that on the to-replace list too. I've not heard a good argument for anything else beyond those drones and the other mentioned types, though. The capital hardwiring, for example was the *only* implant of that entire set existing on TQ, and I find it hard to believe that exactly one implant found its way into the game through wholly legitimate means. Further, in this particular case, we've deleted *all* the capital hardwirings because we didn't have any intention of releasing them any time soon. Leaving one of these things in the DB because some player has acquired one illicitly means that this exact kind of problem, where we have things in the DB that appear to be in game but which nobody can remember *why* they're ingame, is more likely to happen in future. This is exactly the kind of ongoing problem that we were trying to prevent in the first place with this cleanup. |
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seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
107
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Posted - 2012.03.16 14:19:00 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:I've not heard a good argument for anything else beyond those drones and the other mentioned types
"We're changing it so deal with it", exactly the attitude i subscribe for |
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JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
205
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 14:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
OUCH!
I just sold a python mine BPO to a collector like a little over a month ago... I'm not giving back the ISK, but I still feel bad for the person! |
Castelo Selva
Forcas armadas Moon Warriors
2
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Posted - 2012.03.16 14:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
Dear CCP Greyscale
Before everything, please do not take me personal. That said, fitting problem with the non-existent items is a poorly excuse to remove the itens. Simply unfit the item, let it at player hangar. If he fit it and his fitting windows crash, he will know the reason. Fitting windows problem is not an excuse to remove items, sincerely.
>> GÇ£I've not heard a good argument for anything else beyond those drones and the other mentioned types, thoughGÇ¥ << This is another poorly excuse to do what you (or someone above you) want, with are remove items from player hand. As stated by many persons before, these items are collector item. If you do not want to player use it, just issue a global warning telling that use a collector item is an exploit, easy. Problem solved.
>> GÇ£The capital hardwiring, for example was the *only* implant of that entire set existing on TQ, and I find it hard to believe that exactly one implant found its way into the game through wholly legitimate means.GÇ¥ << Ok, if you company had an inside problem with your employers, this was your problem, not the player problem. If your employer misbehave, fire him. If he was working with player, ban the player too. BUT if the item get to the hand of an innocent player, DO NOT punish that player removing the item. As above, just make the use of that item an exploit. If the collector player misbehave (with I really think high improvable) ban him.
TL, DR: Do not remove the item. That is not the solution. Do not f*** with the collector profession / game play just because you think that deleting the items is the easy CCP solution. The items already exist, and collector players invest time, isk and many times they personal RL money to get it. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
82
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Posted - 2012.03.16 14:57:00 -
[103] - Quote
Hmmmm, this thread reads like the Anomoly Nerf all over again. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
2
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Posted - 2012.03.16 15:02:00 -
[104] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Leaving one of these things in the DB because some player has acquired one illicitly
I have received several apologys over the years from Staff for making such bold remarks. You are (in essence) saying that this rare stuff we have was gained through hacking of the game, or cheating devs (Like t20, but as his player name is in a naughty word filter for the forums we cant talk about it I guess!).
How can we argue for all the other stuff to be put back in unless you actually let people know that you killed their stuff, and list all of the stuff that was removed.
It looks like your gonna just keep dodging the situtation and say that no one complained. I dare say that any more refusal to deal with this in a manner other than "I cant see" or "it was illicitly received" might mean that your not the person to deal with this issue. Telling legit players who have legit items that they somehow cheated the items out of the server is probably ignorant. It would be a bit like walking into a biker gangs bar and calling them all rapist, murders, and crackheads. There's a good chances that most of them would be innocent, and that all of them would beat you to near death.
Man up. Make a devblog. Inform users of items that they had removed. Inform all users of what items types were removed.
It shouldnt be on the onus of users to compare DB changes to find out what was removed becuase your "cant see".
This is just another one of those things where you jump before thinking, and then tell us that your a dev and as we are users then tough crap. It does matter, get off your high horse, ask for help from someone internal if you cant deal with it yourself. |
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
167
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Posted - 2012.03.16 15:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:... Leaving one of these things in the DB because some player has acquired one illicitly ...
Assumptions are the mother of all somethings that will get caught by the wordfilter.
CCP Greyscale wrote:we have things in the DB that appear to be in game but which nobody can remember *why* they're ingame, is more likely to happen in future.
Whoa, you nailed it there. That's exactly my point. I really don't fancy my treasures being at risk of deletion just because the knowledge of how they entered the game has left CCP and whoever runs the invtypes cannot seem to do this research themselves (case in point: me pointing out 7 year mail validating the existence of Hellhounds)
Quote:This is exactly the kind of ongoing problem that we were trying to prevent in the first place with this cleanup.
"if I don't know what it is, I'll just delete it!"
Yeah. I guess that's the easy way out.
My point still stands. What harm is there in having defunct/bugged/accidental items in the game as long as they do not break the game. They tell stories. They are part of the game. You gain nothing by deleting them but angry players.
GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? | [topic=6504]EVE API?[/topic] | [topic=6501]Cache?[/topic] |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
46
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Posted - 2012.03.16 15:36:00 -
[106] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:[quote=Entity] It also hurts the player's trust in their assets. It makes us feel like any of our stuff can just be disappeared at any time. I feel for people like Entity who've spent years collecting this stuff, and now his goal in the game is directly threatened by this
I take it you never lost a sock in the dryer. I've had items vanish without a trace from my apt with no explainable reason.
EVE is Real! Gäó. |
Kopfy
9
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Posted - 2012.03.16 15:38:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: ... We ended up deleting 1031 types, out of a total of 11430... ... We don't do this sort of delete very often...
Did you find any Villard Wheels among thouse? I've been looking for them since... 2008, i think. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
418
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 15:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:[quote=Entity] It also hurts the player's trust in their assets. It makes us feel like any of our stuff can just be disappeared at any time. I feel for people like Entity who've spent years collecting this stuff, and now his goal in the game is directly threatened by this I take it you never lost a sock in the dryer. I've had items vanish without a trace from my apt with no explainable reason. EVE is Real! Gäó.
Greyscale Gnome's. They're everywhere!
You have to cut the ops team some slack, trolling the player base with made up downtime estimates is the only fun they get around here.-á(CCP Nullarbor) |
Bobbechk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
6
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Posted - 2012.03.16 16:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
It time CCP acknowledge the collectors of eve and add an actual collectors item class, that cannot be fitted etc.
And whenever you feel you need to "clean up" you just move the item to this new class with no stats thus making the item itself "useless" but still a valid collectors item that can be sold and linked in chat...
I cant see any problem whatsoever with this approach, just drop all stats of the item except the description and change class type to "collectors item"
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Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
169
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 16:09:00 -
[110] - Quote
Bobbechk wrote:It time CCP acknowledge the collectors of eve and add an actual collectors item class, that cannot be fitted etc.
And whenever you feel you need to "clean up" you just move the item to this new class with no stats thus making the item itself "useless" but still a valid collectors item that can be sold and linked in chat...
I cant see any problem whatsoever with this approach, just drop all stats of the item except the description and change class type to "collectors item"
I would have peace with such a solution.
At the very least I just want assurance that items that have 1 or more instances owned by players will not be deleted unless they threaten the game balance. I need to be able to go to bed and wake up the next day without having to run my Asset GuardGäó script to check what CCP deleted this time. (some called me paranoid for that, but obviously that script has been vindicated now) GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? | [topic=6504]EVE API?[/topic] | [topic=6501]Cache?[/topic] |
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Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
59
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Posted - 2012.03.16 16:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
So your production documentation is incomplete. Make a wiki page about it. Wrap a bit of RP around it. Link it in the item database. Some farmer on a planet in cloud ring found a stack of weird items while working his potato fields, the public is asked for help with regards to their origins.
There, internal development documentation fixed. |
Sarmatiko
563
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 16:17:00 -
[112] - Quote
Posted about this changes month ago here and as always majority finds out when it's too late.
Also I want back my Infested Dominix |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
108
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Posted - 2012.03.16 16:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:Posted about this changes month ago here and as always majority finds out when it's too late. Also I want back my Infested Dominix
That's because there is such little advertisement in the change of the little things, the big obvious changes are the ones that are broadcast to the public but the little ones CCP thinks will go unnoticed are brushed under the rug until it hits tranquility and actually starts affecting players.
Item's in SISI do not have the same value (both monetary and sentimental) as they do in tranquility and this i reckon is why nothing is ever said when they're put into place on there, plus the fraction of users who actually go on there in relation to TQ. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
800
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 16:28:00 -
[114] - Quote
Kopfy wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: ... We ended up deleting 1031 types, out of a total of 11430... ... We don't do this sort of delete very often...
Did you find any Villard Wheels among thouse? I've been looking for them since... 2008, i think.
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Toramii
Le Moulin Rouge
5
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Posted - 2012.03.16 16:37:00 -
[115] - Quote
Perhaps CCP can give us a list of whats been deleted, I'm sure the player community will fill in the blanks as to how they got into the game.
I'll start, Harvester drones (plus improved, standard). Circa 2003, whether by design or accident these drones dropped from faction haulers moving from station to station within a system. CCP eventually removed these drones from hauler drops so the drones became finite in number and eventually rare. They were not game breaking items but became collectible, last time I checked over a year ago Harvesters were worth 50 million plus each on contracts.
The Anaconda and Python mine Blueprints were seeded on the market a long ago. Due to broken game mechanics e.g. inducing lag or players getting Concorded many systems away due to a security status drop, CCP removed the ability for players to lay mines and so the BPO / BPCs became collectible.
CCP markets Eve as a persistent universe, where deeds and lore are made. So whats next on the list, Eve tournament monuments, the ASCN Titan wreck, cause you know, how-many current Eve player s (or devs for that matter) know why they came to be and no one uses them - right?
PS, I possess(ed) a number of oddly named modules back from early days which no longer drop, along with drones, skills, BPC's, BPOs. I'm lucky enough to have an item audit from 2010. After the module renaming is complete will do another audit and be interested to see whats disappeared in-between. |
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
169
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 16:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Toramii wrote:Perhaps CCP can give us a list of whats been deleted
No need. There is a list right here
Obviously the vast majority of items on that list are just test items and other assorted junk that never actually made it into the game. GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? | [topic=6504]EVE API?[/topic] | [topic=6501]Cache?[/topic] |
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
211
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Posted - 2012.03.16 16:49:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi,
Yes, this happened because of a thing that I did. We're looking at our options right now, but there are some other things I have to sort out first today. We'll get back to you!
-Greyscale
PS My player account owned both blueprints, I understand your pain.
Did you mine 'em? :P Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttp://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=433 Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Rose Hips
Zero Dot Zero
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 17:08:00 -
[118] - Quote
EVE is Real! Gäó - Then they poofed my mines. Forum signature removed by GOD |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
427
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 17:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:The capital hardwiring, for example was the *only* implant of that entire set existing on TQ, and I find it hard to believe that exactly one implant found its way into the game through wholly legitimate means.
Maybe you should look into that instead of swinging around vague accusations. How would it have gotten in game? Seems like a really lazy answer... but then I suppose that's par for the course per the lazy execution on this.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Leaving one of these things in the DB because some player has acquired one illicitly means that this exact kind of problem, where we have things in the DB that appear to be in game but which nobody can remember *why* they're ingame, is more likely to happen in future. This is exactly the kind of ongoing problem that we were trying to prevent in the first place with this cleanup.
Can't remember? So I guess CCP doesn't have access to Google. That's a real shame.
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Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
173
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Posted - 2012.03.16 17:52:00 -
[120] - Quote
I forgot to mention this:
I absolutely resent the accusation, implied or otherwise, that I acquired items illicitly. I have always reported any suspect/harmful items and ran any weird items past CCP to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong, and I'm sure a number of colleagues will vouch for my integrity when it comes to that.
I insist on getting capital implant back. and it's also false that that was the only such implant. Remove the dogma effects for all I care. Don't delete stuff I bought or was given fair and square, or at least compensate me for the loss of unique collectibles.
GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? | [topic=6504]EVE API?[/topic] | [topic=6501]Cache?[/topic] |
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