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Words from Hellmar about enhanced Account Services

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kieron	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:00:00 - [1] Hellmar has posted a Dev Blog that talks about the addition of character transfers and portrait swaps to your account management page(s). Give it a look for more in-depth discussion. There are also some changes that are going to be made to the EULA in the very near future. This is discussed in the Blog as well. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Shiakarma	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:00:00 - [2] Edited by: Shiakarma on 27/05/2004 16:03:05 w00t! great stuff! Thanks Edit: Quote: All these services have a fee that you need to pay, with a credit card lol and there was me thinking it'd be an ISK fee how dumb am I?! Computer games don't affect children. If PacMan had affected us as kids then we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Damon DeSade	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:07:00 - [3] :( I think 40$ is a bit steep to change your char portrait.
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:07:00 - [4] Edited by: Deadflip2 on 27/05/2004 16:08:20 absolutely pefetic to make money out of it, especially for people like me that dont HAVE a credit card . its a great idea though . but unless you remove the credit card stuff... spend your time on something better...., EDIT: for you disco, removed some errors spelling --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:10:00 - [5] $40........................................... wow. I suppose it stops abuse but again.... wow.
Douro	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:11:00 - [6] $40 to transfer the character, no problem. $40 to change my portrait, not a chance in hell.
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:13:00 - [7] what exactly do they mean "transfer" a character?! --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
kieron	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Deadflip2 especially for people like me that dont HAVE a credit card . Bank cards will also work with the account management service, Deadflip. I don't know what your financial situation is, but there are other options to explore. Friends or relatives, secured credit cards, etc. If these are services that you are interested in and you can't work something out, send me an e-mail. I might be able to help out. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:19:00 - [9] Edited by: Deadflip2 on 27/05/2004 16:22:05 Originally by: kieron Originally by: Deadflip2 especially for people like me that dont HAVE a credit card . Bank cards will also work with the account management service, Deadflip. I don't know what your financial situation is, but there are other options to explore. Friends or relatives, secured credit cards, etc. If these are services that you are interested in and you can't work something out, send me an e-mail. I might be able to help out. still you can agree with me that 40$ for such a thing is quite "bad", didnt read the other options though, sry. 40$.... EDIT: also kieron, you do know that unless the cost of doing it is an actual 40$ (a few hours dev time), this might change the whole image of eve (an image of ccp forfilling a dream, and not just going after profit only like EA). --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
meowcat	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:23:00 - [10] The price for simply changing your face seems like a cynical moneymaking ploy IMO. I am both surprised and disappointed that CCP have done this. It's the first time i've felt this way. I started playing quite recently, under the free trial. I just wanted to see what the game was like so when the character selection came up, I just hit about 3 buttons at random and clicked ok... now I'm so far down the line I can't start again without losing serious skill time. Just limit the face-changing to once every X months and allow us to do it for nothing. It's not like it costs CCP in administration.... at worst charge 1 euro if you want credit card fraud rules to apply to abuse A VERY disappointed new player who has become slightly jaded for the first time... suppose my haircut will have to wait ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:25:00 - [11] Sorry but 40 Euros to swap a portrait is completely retarded. Mai's Idealog
Hellek	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:33:00 - [12] changing the character portrait should be for isk, not for euro/dollars
Uuldahan	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:34:00 - [13] Originally by: meowcat The price for simply changing your face seems like a cynical moneymaking ploy IMO. I am both surprised and disappointed that CCP have done this. It's the first time i've felt this way. I started playing quite recently, under the free trial. I just wanted to see what the game was like so when the character selection came up, I just hit about 3 buttons at random and clicked ok... now I'm so far down the line I can't start again without losing serious skill time. Just limit the face-changing to once every X months and allow us to do it for nothing. It's not like it costs CCP in administration.... at worst charge 1 euro if you want credit card fraud rules to apply to abuse A VERY disappointed new player who has become slightly jaded for the first time... suppose my haircut will have to wait I just feel like you, I just...don't understand. From a long time player, I can say it's the worst thing that have just happened to EVE. A BIG mistake to not let this kind of things IN game. I'm disappointed
Xenu	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:40:00 - [14] $40 to change a portrait- LOL. i don't care how ugly my avatar is, i'm never going to pay that much money for something like that. good luck with that price ccp, you're going to need it. ________________________________________________________
Infection	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:44:00 - [15] Man, when I saw the portrait change option, I though I could finaly make my character not look like a monkey's bum, but $40 is a bit crazy. I see it taking 20 seconds to make a db change to alter portrait id with option flags. I could justify $5, but not $40..
ZX Spectrum	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:46:00 - [16] I love the character transfer option.I can now get a second account, roll a science/refiner type guy, give him some implants and 4 months from now transfer him to my main account and stop paying for the second account.That saves me money in the long run. As for the character portrait change, that feature was always going to be for people 'with too much money on their hands' no matter if its 4 or 40 bucks.Those people will still change their portrait, you wait and see.
Diwa	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:47:00 - [17] I was thinking to combine my 2 accounts into one which would offset the cost of $40 however I see one simple problem and that is training!! I be able to train only one character at a time, is this correct assumption kieron?
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:48:00 - [18] Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 27/05/2004 16:50:36 Both of these options are clearly run out of the business office. Both are also overpriced. $10 USD is reasonable for changing an avatar, and MAYBE $20 for character transfer. Both require some staffing and coding resources IRL, so asking for RL money is reasonable, but 40 is way steep. BW Originally by: Selim Cool, congrats. Oh, stupid idea by the way.
Whitethorn	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Deadflip2 what exactly do they mean "transfer" a character?! "Transfer" means to move it from one account to another. I'd agree with a charge for that, I'd consider paying 40 euros to move an alt to a new account. However, 40 euros for a portrait change is ludicrous. Not even EA charged cash for that, they made it an in-game service charged in credits. At that price, I very much doubt its a service anyone will use. 40 euros is 3 months of game time.
Shap Sheegger	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:54:00 - [20] I like 40, since it was a dumb idea in the first place.People would change avatars all the time, and avatars stick with me longer than names do funnily enough.. especially when flying through space checking local.
meowcat	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:56:00 - [21] Originally by: The Account Page ... the surest way of preventing identity hopping is to have real monetary transactions behind each portrait swap. This is utter gobsh1te The surest way to prevent portrait hopping is to have a 5 line bit of code somewhere that only allows you to do it every X months ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Infection	Posted - 2004.05.27 16:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Shap Sheegger I like 40, since it was a dumb idea in the first place.People would change avatars all the time, and avatars stick with me longer than names do funnily enough.. especially when flying through space checking local. I would have to disagree since everyone looks the same and if you play enough you go by names. So how is it dumb again? Most have a main character they started when they were new to eve not knowing they would be stuck looking bad.
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:01:00 - [23] I dig the character transfer but, asking FORTY EURO'S for a character portrait alteration leaves me quite speachless.. Why so much money 0_o [Heterocephalus glaber]
Shap Sheegger	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Infection Most have a main character they started when they were new to eve not knowing they would be stuck looking bad. So basicly what you're saying is that when you were new, you didn't realize after you made a portrait that you couldn't change it?Well i made a dummy character first to check out all the character creation options.. and it seemed pretty clear from the offset that i couldn't change it after i rolled my char.
FoRGyL	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:04:00 - [25] Edited by: FoRGyL on 27/05/2004 17:06:05 Hmm..is this really the prio change u want to see? It's 24h on a day and alot issues to take care of! ..is this service or pure greed? WoW... ********************************************************* Ohhhh iyayaayaya puff ohh iyaayaya puff puff PVR =Player vs Roid! Burr, scary peps!!!
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:05:00 - [26] Well, there are different depts of devs, each handling their own part of the game. The Webbi guys shouldnt be coding the game, so it's fine they add nifty features but 40 euro's 0_o [Heterocephalus glaber]
Infection	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Shap Sheegger Originally by: Infection Most have a main character they started when they were new to eve not knowing they would be stuck looking bad. So basicly what you're saying is that when you were new, you didn't realize after you made a portrait that you couldn't change it?Well i made a dummy character first to check out all the character creation options.. and it seemed pretty clear from the offset that i couldn't change it after i rolled my char. So your 1% of eve population, congradulations. On a side note most dont like to waste time and want to actualy play the game when they get it. Not everyone is just like you so I hope everyone reading this thread takes your dumb idea comment as an opinion.
DHU InMe	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:07:00 - [28] 40$, Why not buy a new account + 1 month of subscription for that price... They should fix it at 5-15$ Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
Synex	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:09:00 - [29] hur hur hur... $40, oh that's a good one Well, gave me a good laugh anyways... Look, I know you guys are new at this and all that. And I know your all super-rich because of tens of thousands of people paying you $15/month (joking) but $40 is a lot for such a service. Check out some other mmorpgs for similar services, adjust the price and get back to us eh? I'd recommend starting with UO - they offer a similar service I believe... Cheers
Infection	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Synex hur hur hur... $40, oh that's a good one Well, gave me a good laugh anyways... Look, I know you guys are new at this and all that. And I know your all super-rich because of tens of thousands of people paying you $15/month (joking) but $40 is a lot for such a service. Check out some other mmorpgs for similar services, adjust the price and get back to us eh? I'd recommend starting with UO - they offer a similar service I believe... Cheers You've seen the eve db structure. :p So you know as I do a 20 minute writen script is all it takes to swap the portait data. How is that worth 40 bux?
kieron	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Diwa I was thinking to combine my 2 accounts into one which would offset the cost of $40 however I see one simple problem and that is training!! I be able to train only one character at a time, is this correct assumption kieron? Yes, your account will still be subject to the 1 skill training at a time limitation. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
kieron	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:16:00 - [32] The pricing of these services are being discussed internally. When a final determination is made, the results will be blogged and posted here. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Synex	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:21:00 - [33] Originally by: kieron The pricing of these services are being discussed internally. When a final determination is made, the results will be blogged and posted here. Ok... Who came up with prices to start with? Cos I have a large trout here to slap them with. If the prices / ideas that are 'suggested' are popped up on a dev blog or something... Can you remind the devs to say something like "We are thinking about..." or "What do you guys think of this... " rather than saying "This IS what is going to happen". If we all work together as a community, we could accomplish so much more, with so fewer flames / complaints. Cheers,
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:24:00 - [34] Listen to Synex, he's clearly wearing his smartypants! [Heterocephalus glaber]
Nomaar	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:27:00 - [35] Originally by: meowcat The price for simply changing your face seems like a cynical moneymaking ploy IMO. I am both surprised and disappointed that CCP have done this. It's the first time i've felt this way. I agree completely. In the pre-beta days, I remember CCP devs talking about how enhancements to portraits were going to be built-in rewards for achieving certain ranks or goals. Now that aspect has not only been taken completly out of the game, but turned into a money-making gimmick. In essence, this the first time I feel manipulated by CCP. It's disappointing. Changes in the portrait should be for isk. Charging 500,000 isk for a change seems reasonable. And changes to the facial structure shouldn't be allowed. Only to the hair, clothes, lighting, background, jewelry, makeup and implants and tattoos. Anyway, a big thumbs down on this move. I guess no company is perfect.
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:32:00 - [36] Originally by: kieron The pricing of these services are being discussed internally. When a final determination is made, the results will be blogged and posted here. kieron please read what i posted before, its not jsut about the money cost, its about your image (what people think about ccp). if you ask money for a thing like this idd estimate quite a few people would lose faith in the "dreams" after wich ccp to most peoples opinion build this game --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Laika Minirva	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:34:00 - [37] Edited by: Laika Minirva on 27/05/2004 17:37:54 Originally by: kieron The pricing of these services are being discussed internally. When a final determination is made, the results will be blogged and posted here. Guys, that means they WILL be lowered.When is the last time a saleman has told you to wait with buying his goods, because the prices are still under discussion? Edit: and i agree real money should be charged instaid of ISK as people would break the rendermachine down with all their silly requests. 15-20 bucks would be reasonable, but 40 is just crazy. If spamming is a crime, then i'm guilty as charged!
Synex	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Discorporation Listen to Synex, he's clearly wearing his smartypants! Every day is a smarty-pants day :) I have a lot of love for this game, I've been following it since it's annoucement back in 2000(?). But recently, I have been slamming my head against the table again and again and stuff like this comes up... All the back-tracking and setting of ludicris goals / prices... ah, it's crazy. I understand that CCP might be undergoing a lot of internal changes, but I for one would be a lot more forgiving if the link between the community + devs was a bit more transparent. Maybe the CSM should change from 'Council of Stellar Management' to something like 'Common Sense Meeting'... slams head against table
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:39:00 - [39] It's not that bad, synex I agree, thoguh, there could be a little bit more feedback through blogs, etc, but I think they're doing an admirable job. Been improving ever since beta :) [Heterocephalus glaber]
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:47:00 - [40] $10 is a more realistic figure, if you ask me, which you aren't but if you were, it's what I'd say. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2004.05.27 17:51:00 - [41] LOL no way! People expected at some point that altering avatars might be doable as part of CONTENT. You know hair change, tatoo removal (small isk) to full plastic surgery (big isk). Along with this you could have player skills to do this, more interactivety...more immersion...more..you know, CONTENT! Externalising it this way is a joke. Why dont you do away with all player manufacturing as well, and only provide ingame items for real money too while your at it. I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some major problem inside CCP with regard to Eve's future. The current balancing changes are merely number shuffling of DB look up tables..where's anything of real tangible effort? Stop playing sleight of hand, tell us what's really intended to be developed for this game AND what's NOT going to be developed in this game (with the essential ingredient..honesty). We can the decide if this is the game for us and stay/fack off as appropriate. Jeez all l wanted to do was rotate my avatar a bit so he's not staring away like a beady eyed peado.
Diwa	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Shap Sheegger I like 40, since it was a dumb idea in the first place.People would change avatars all the time, and avatars stick with me longer than names do funnily enough.. especially when flying through space checking local. Now that is most assenite reason I yet hearà Name is what you look for and that should NOT be ever change!!
Whitethorn	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:06:00 - [43] The way they have done changing the image makes it a completely automated process from their point of view. You do all the work creating an avatar with the image you want on an alt slot on the same account, then all you do is tell the system which two faces you want it to swap. The coding needed to implement this on the database would be simplicity itself, the only fancy part would have been their writing the interface for it. The main use for this feature would have been those who used the random option when they created their first character (like me), and have too much time invested in that character to consider just deleting it and making a new one. Many of those people would happily pay a small charge to give their avatar a decent picture, and would spend ages tinkering in the character creator to get just the right look. I know I would have, but not for 40 euros.
Deadflip2	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:12:00 - [44] its just unfair they charge money, for some people moneys worth mroe then others, disable skilltraining of the person in question ( at least portraits ) for a day or so, thats a punishment for all so they wont do it all the time. but it wont effect people IRL. --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Wilma Deering	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:13:00 - [45] Think about your loyal customer base CCP and don't start milking us for every penny you can get. UO went down the crapper when they introduced advanced character purchasing for $30/acount and a ton of other money-spinning gimicks. Charging your customers for something as simple as portait editing is one such gimick. I'd hate to see CCP follow the likes of EA etc in the way it treats its customers. Portrait editing should be nothing more than an in-game feature that costs ISK.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:17:00 - [46] portrait swapping and character transfer = cool $40 = insanely wrong I swear, it's like someone has been running all the good ideas out of CCP HQ through a stupid filter for the last month or so.
Kitten Hearder	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:24:00 - [47] Edited by: Kitten Hearder on 27/05/2004 19:41:46 40 Euros is only a lot of money to poor people who should probably be out working for a better job and not playing frickin' video games. Heck, that should be a sig quote! But I'm not against using ISK to pay for portrait swapping. But on a technical note: if you swap your portrait with a character of a different race does that mean you become that race? Or do you keep your original race? And MOST importantly: does this reset our "Hot Characters" score? --------- Kitten Hearder Evolution made my sig Less Entertaining than your's.
Xelios	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:32:00 - [48] For $40 I expect the guy who does the artwork for the news and chronicals to paint me a framed RL 20x30" portrait of my character that I can hang on my wall, not photoshop some different hair onto my character in a 150x150 image
cashman	Posted - 2004.05.27 18:35:00 - [49] Keep this overpriced crap to yourself. I was thrilled when I read we would be able to alter our character portraits, but Ç40 euro... What the hell have you been smoking? ____________________________________ »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Aelius	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:05:00 - [50] Edited by: Aelius on 27/05/2004 19:11:05 YOU MAKE ME SICK HELLMAR... SELLING THE REALISTIC PART OF EVE FOR MONEY... U SUCK!!! and if Lord Zap gives his account to a carebear? No more telling who is who in this bloody game. WORK ON SHIVA AND STOP MESSING AROUND!!!! PS: i usually don't white with capitals but this time u have really ****ed me off Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Demangel	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:11:00 - [51] Edited by: Demangel on 27/05/2004 19:12:33 Originally by: Xelios For $40 I expect the guy who does the artwork for the news and chronicals to paint me a framed RL 20x30" portrait of my character that I can hang on my wall, not photoshop some different hair onto my character in a 150x150 image ROFL Amen :) I too read the thing and was like: Oooh, maybe a few bucks won't be that bad, I'd like to make my portrait look a tiny bit less... "Friendly" Maybe. Even I thinik he looks very good, he looks almost too "Nice". But $40? Look unless CCP mails me a nugget of gold and a months supply of fine meats and cheeses and naked pictures of the hotter female CCP office employees, it's just not gonna happen. I could understand if you guys at CCP had to manualy photoshop the portrait... $40 would make sense then. Let me know when you guys get your sanity back and drop the price down to $10, or better yet $5. I'd still feel ripped off (I agree, smells more like a money making gimick than a real need), but at least it would affordable, and justifiable. I mean seriously CCP, if it really costs you $30 or something to change the portrait, I understand there is nothing you can do about that... But if thats the case, then don't bother with the service... It makes it seem like your being dishonest and greedy. If it costs you nothing or next to nothing, then you ARE being dishonest and greedy... there are much better ways to limit portrait alterations to prevent exploiting than making a bad PR mistake like this. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Aelius	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:19:00 - [52] All of a sudden i lost every bit of courage to play this game... Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
MATANDO	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:22:00 - [53] Well I agree that a price is needed to stop people from exploiting this service but no frelling way I am ever going to pay 40 euro's for a simple service like that! It would be the same as asking 10 euro's to use someones toilet! ------------------------------ Audiofreaks ------------------------------
Badboyslb	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:25:00 - [54] WAT ARE U DOING SOLDIER? i mean wtf? 40 RL cash for using ingame option and "things" just gime game content and stop making little things like u can paint ur ship for 100Ç BOOOOOOO very bad decision IMO.
Medreena	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:25:00 - [55] Like I said on the reply to the DEV Blog I dont think this is a good idea At least charactures will NOT be able to change race and sex which means that they can only redesign a portrait to what they originaly selected for their race. For a lot of people advatars are an important way for people to recognise eatchother on the forum and ingame. Im not totaly opposed to people changing portraits, but rather give it some more moderate means of change. There are lots of good suggestion in the idea lab, but I think it sould be payed for in ISK as an ingame feature that is either rewarded by agents or payed for at a lab or whatever. A more moderate means of change would be the ability to go back into the char creation tool and change makeup, hair, lighting and clothing. For the more advanced changes such as facial features that would cost ISK. Name changing would be a total disaster Please CCP dont do that. Imagine Pirates running round under a new name you wouldnt be able to tell in local anymore if you were being hunted.... i realise you can tell what they were used to be called as well but that would take extra time, and if your trying to do that in the heat of a battle its not gonna be good. Im worried about players loosing a sense of identity. The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is for Good Men to Do Nothing...
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:25:00 - [56] Just the fact that they are asking money for a simple DB change is, in my honest opinion, despicable. It's nothing but greed, simple as that. If they want to limit hopping make it either: a) Very ISK expensive b) Available only once every 4 months or so Greed, greed, greed. That's all there is too it. Very poorly thought through, CCP. I've never been more disappointed with an introduced feature in any game ever.
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:27:00 - [57] I think it should be 40 dollars/euros. I mean you don't want people to change their face alot do ya...Oh, you do? Nevermind, then make it 20...and for that 20 bucks there must be extra features like jewelry and stuff...(I want a huge gold chain on my neck)
Falbala	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:34:00 - [58] The problem with portraits is that when reduced you have sometimes surprises, like mine^^. The only reason I want to change mine is to fix the eyes, 40 dollars or euros are too expensive just for this.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:40:00 - [59] Originally by: Negotiator I think it should be 40 dollars/euros. I mean you don't want people to change their face alot do ya...Oh, you do? Nevermind, then make it 20...and for that 20 bucks there must be extra features like jewelry and stuff...(I want a huge gold chain on my neck) bling! LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Opalfruit	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:49:00 - [60] I do think Ç40 is far too much.. As with some people, im not that happy with my avatar and would love to change it but would be prepared to pay Ç5 or something around that
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2004.05.27 19:53:00 - [61] sorry but 40 euros feels like doing a real life wallet exploit, even if it is not intended to be one or come across as one. it does come across as one, which you do not intend i hope. a reasonable price that would achieve the "security measure" feel should be drastically lower if at all rl money payable (don't see why a time limit is not sufficient).
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:23:00 - [62] That's not a nice way to treat us, CCP. Hell, i(and many others) can't even pay an extra 15$\E, and you expect us to pay 40$\E for that, better scrap the avatar change feature all together. ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
Bad Harlequin	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:24:00 - [63] Bad idea. Nasty precedent. Don't do it. The only thin line you have is on content deployment. And your timing is just bloody farking awful, couldn't be worse. NOW, when you have people (right or wrong) whipped up over the delay of Shiva and calling the content into question, is NOT the time to start charging for features You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike.
kieron	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:26:00 - [64] As I posted before, way back on page 2, the pricing is being discussed internally and when a final determination is made, it will be blogged and posted on the forums. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Nomaar	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:27:00 - [65] This could turn into a slippery slope. What's next, real-life money for extra skillpoints at character creation. Real-life fees for lab and manufacturing slots? Real money to buy research lottery tickets?
Aelius	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:28:00 - [66] Originally by: kieron As I posted before, way back on page 2, the pricing is being discussed internally and when a final determination is made, it will be blogged and posted on the forums. The question is not the price... The question is the lack of reality this will bring to the game. And the great HAVOC it will cause with missleading IDs. Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:28:00 - [67] 's not really a feature though, is it? There's no new twinkley things, no new implant models, no new backgrounds, etc. There's nothing new, it's just switching faces. It's the pricetag that bothers me, personally . Hopefully, this won't deter them from putting in all those nifty things we were thinking about that could be done with the portrait (I'll get a War Tattoo, just to spite you minnies). Means I can finally get my Beta face back tho. Nifty [Heterocephalus glaber]
Nemesis I	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:28:00 - [68] Will there be a refund if people do buy the option now?
Nomaar	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:28:00 - [69] Originally by: kieron As I posted before, way back on page 2, the pricing is being discussed internally and when a final determination is made, it will be blogged and posted on the forums. It's not just the price, Kieron. It's clear in the player response so far that just the idea of charging real money for what should be an in-game feature is what's distasteful.
Solomon Smith	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:29:00 - [70] I don't want to pay even 1 Ç/$, no RL money, for changing my portrait. It just makes no sense. It should be an in-game feature. What about more, new, fresh CONTENT? You know, places where you can change details on your pic, but not your face. Surgeons who can change your face (even your sex) for a vast amount of isk. Illegal agents who can get you a new identity paying an insane amount of isk or something else, like doing certain missions for them. Skills for bounty hunters (or others) to track down those pirates who changed their identity... etc. etc. etc. I know this might be more difficult to implement, but i do think it is way much better, introduces new content and doesn't make you look so greedy, but very competent, indeed.
Xelios	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:34:00 - [71] Kieron I don't think the issue is whether or not the price will stay the same, I'm sure it will change, but I think a lot of people are amazed such a price was even considered by CCP and are commenting that such a blatent wallet******should have been turned down long before it was ever implemented.
Nightfang	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:37:00 - [72] What bugs me most about all of this is that it's a bannable offense to sell in-game services to other people for real life money (according to your EULA), but you yourself are planning on implementing so that you can... I know it's your game, but that's just low. Alot of respect was lost for your company this evening, at least from my part.
Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:41:00 - [73] Edited by: Frank Horrigan on 27/05/2004 20:41:57 I seriouisly need to get this hood off after that ultra super tech 5 jove super glue incident.... Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected? Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i
Alastra	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:42:00 - [74] My concern is that everyone will want a Ni-Kunni portrait... Or will it be restricted by race? Nuponi Nimedaz: "You're a pilot after my own heart, Alastra."
Del Narveux	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:45:00 - [75] Personally I think paying any real money for changing the way your character looks is just plain retarded. Now, this char was naturally blessed with a very sexy mug, mind you, but one of my others does look a bit creepy. Still, theres no way in hell Im gonna pay money for it, though. I would agree that it should maybe cost ingame money, and/or maybe have time limitations, but charging real money for it is just stupid. I mean, I probably wouldnt pay $40 if it came with a session with a good artist to draw a custom one. Additionally, if youre gonna start reworking the way characters look, how about making the races look a bit more attractive in the first place? The only reason most Caldari are Caldari is its the only race whose characters dont look like goth punks or on *****. _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Agent Shield	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:49:00 - [76] OUCH! I will keep my portrait, I am satisfied. I would have thought something like this would be an in-game feature. Head to medical facility, talk to plastic surgeon, pay the isk, look through catalog and adjust to your heart's desire. I am guessing of the thousands of people who play this game, there may be a few who actually will pay $40 bucks for something as simple as a hair transplant, just not me. Agent Shield
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2004.05.27 20:53:00 - [77] A game I used to play had the portrait change service, it charged you in-game credits for a facelift, hair transplant etc. Heck, you could modify your ship design and colors also, all for in-game credits. Charging real life money for this is a bad idea, please re-think it. I have no problem with the price for the character transfer service price... It should be steep. Please, please, please... Do not allow any type of character name-change service, this would cause pure chaos among the playerbase. Just my .2 isk... ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.
Tripp Orsam	Posted - 2004.05.27 21:01:00 - [78] Edited by: Tripp Orsam on 27/05/2004 21:04:34 its obvious that many people are unhappy with thier portraits, either they made them quickly to get into the game or they just were not feeling very creative at the time, either way they are not happy, I think that main characters should be allowed one portrait change for free and then all other changes after that should be charged. If this first change is free then the 40 price tag seems fair, otherwise its a bit steep, thats more expensive then the game itself right? something to think about. One thing to think about is that you might already have a unique portrait! CCP must have changed something with the portrait creation process 'cos some of the older portraits are not possible to recreate, try making a replica of Lord Zap's face or another old school player. I know I cant recreate my character from beta he was caldari also, maybe its just a caldari thing, i guess ccp decided to make them a bit more angry looking. ----------------------------- EVE Online perfectly strikes all your free time wrecking your 1994 marriage.
Claus	Posted - 2004.05.27 21:13:00 - [79] CCP is showing their true colours -- charging cash for a poor excuse for content. ------------- You have to go out of your mind from time to time to stay sane.
Czar Marcus	Posted - 2004.05.27 21:20:00 - [80] I agree, paying money for a portrait change seems completely profit driven, unethical, and unholy.
Nafri	Posted - 2004.05.27 21:24:00 - [81] never read so stupid ** Wanna fly with me?**
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.05.27 21:36:00 - [82] Hey CCP, a suggestion: For $40, an individual can have his character portrait customized with unique items. For me, it'd be half-red-half-blue hair and reflective sunglasses. If I could get that done, I'd put down forty bucks without hesitation.
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.05.27 21:53:00 - [83] What I wouldnt give for a totally custom designed avatar 0_o [Heterocephalus glaber]
Macca	Posted - 2004.05.27 22:02:00 - [84] I'd rather keep mr. retard as my avitar than mr. 'gonna burst a blood vessel if you dont give him ice-cream' thats on my sig and pay ú25 for it . --------
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.05.27 22:09:00 - [85] Edited by: LukAsh on 27/05/2004 22:31:04 40EU?? Lol I want some of that stuff the guy who set the price has been smoking As for my picture change, I too remember like in a dream, that in beta plans was that if you for eg. buy an implant your picture would change and you could see this implant. That was a good idea, sadly many good ideas just died somewhere along the road... I wouldn't change my look, maybe the hair... Oh wait I dont have any To Kieron: You are community manager. Push CCP that they try to think more about their moves and consumer reactions... I think the 40EU price tag on the service is the worst and least thought through move to date. Even the E3 shiva relase date leak was nothing compared to this. It puts CCP in very bad light, as you can see in the posts before mine. And in the end its bad for EVE and we want all the best for it, don't we? ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
Kaspersky	Posted - 2004.05.27 22:29:00 - [86] SHOW ME THE MONEY! Woo $40 - if anything needs balancing in your product ccp this is surely it! Interesting features mind you. The swapping of character portraits should I think be an ingame feature on the character selection screen - minus of course the hefty $40 fee. The introduction of this feature reminds me of back when the fee for mailing/convo ingame was introduced. That had a similar shock effect on the populace - although at least the currency involved was isk and not real money. I think that paying for these two features is (to put it mildly) distasteful and certainly does not get my backing. If ccp are so intent on pumping their customer base for money then perhaps they should consider adding to their list of merchandise. A real winner I think would be a dartboard with Hellmar's face on one side and TomB's face on the other.
meowcat	Posted - 2004.05.27 22:31:00 - [87] Edited by: meowcat on 27/05/2004 22:32:44 ok folks... MESSAGE RECEIVED AND UNDERSTOOD we can stop being rude now and wait for them to undo the silly 40 quid thing all will be right with the world and then we can all go back to talking about Shiva ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Hanns	Posted - 2004.05.27 22:54:00 - [88] I think the whole idea is BAD you should only be able to change your name under extenuating circumstances, EG. if your stupid enough to use your real name, or put your corp tag in your name! and then you shoukld be made to pay!!
Nafri	Posted - 2004.05.27 22:54:00 - [89] Originally by: Hanns I think the whole idea is BAD you should only be able to change your name under extenuating circumstances, EG. if your stupid enough to use your real name, or put your corp tag in your name! and then you shoukld be made to pay!! only cause your so sexy, i didnt know you could move your head while creating my pic Wanna fly with me?
Hanns	Posted - 2004.05.27 23:10:00 - [90] Originally by: Nafri only cause your so sexy, i didnt know you could move your head while creating my pic
kieron	Posted - 2004.05.28 00:43:00 - [91] Originally by: LukAsh To Kieron: You are community manager. Push CCP that they try to think more about their moves and consumer reactions... I think the 40EU price tag on the service is the worst and least thought through move to date. Even the E3 shiva relase date leak was nothing compared to this. It puts CCP in very bad light, as you can see in the posts before mine. And in the end its bad for EVE and we want all the best for it, don't we? The pricing of the services was initially set with name changes in mind, not so much the portrait swapping or the transfer. When we realized a mistake was made in pricing all the services the same amount, we discussed new pricing and made adjustments. While we cannot offer the services for free, the pricing should be a lot more palatable. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Mystikos	Posted - 2004.05.28 01:13:00 - [92] Geez, I would think none of you had ever bought anything from a salesman again. It goes like this: any price they name will be too much, so they name one that seems especially high. Later, after "internal discussion," they make it more reasonable, say between $10-$20. There are still people who will complain, but they can be met with the response "Hey, it was going to be $40." I don't know anything about original DEV promises to add this kind of content, but you can't exactly start over with a new face and your old stats at this point. There are currently 5 pages of rants about a feature that's not in yet, may not ever be put in, and may only be put in SoonÖ. Give the guys (and girls?) a chance to put it in, and if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. They'll figure out soon enough if it's worth it to them or not. BTW, this gives me an idea about an event. Is there someone I need to contact about this?
Katya Detia	Posted - 2004.05.28 02:34:00 - [93] Well if im paying, i will want to change my blood line and everything else apart from the gender and the race, which i think is fair. I dont think it should be charged for at all.. I think it should be a medical skill in game that allows you to do it to your own face every 2 or 3 months. Or better, make this skill very hard to train for, and let someone else to the surgry for you.. Let them do a sample for you.. then you accept.. then it takes awile... Its a way for someone to make money.. This will give people something else to do in game.. Keeping people intrested and keeping more people paying :) --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
Alberto	Posted - 2004.05.28 03:35:00 - [94] $40 buck thats good thinking, good job CCP ****ing off society one dumba$$ at a time
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.05.28 03:38:00 - [95] They changed it to 20$ -- 10$. Nice one CCP, ty for not selling out so to speak...
OrbitalEffect	Posted - 2004.05.28 03:49:00 - [96] How much for just a brown paper bag over my head?
Hanns	Posted - 2004.05.28 04:08:00 - [97] Originally by: OrbitalEffect How much for just a brown paper bag over my head? Heh, that reminds me of an old program you had to use to play AVP online... i forget the name tho....
Shiakarma	Posted - 2004.05.28 07:35:00 - [98] Hang on a minute... it says 10EU to "swap" char portrait in the account management. Does this mean i can create ANY alt portrait I like and swap this over to ANY other char? That's not bad if it's the case. Computer games don't affect children. If PacMan had affected us as kids then we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.05.28 09:06:00 - [99] not exactly...it has to be the same race and bloodline and gender :P
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.05.28 09:25:00 - [100] Wonder when race change gets ingame, i dont feel like a gallante... :\| However the change character is worth it. The avatar change should have been ingame money, for plastic surgery. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Del Narveux	Posted - 2004.05.28 09:43:00 - [101] Ok, Ok, $10 for an avvie change or whatever is still sorta lame but at least thats a lot more understandable than what it was. _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Lucre	Posted - 2004.05.28 11:18:00 - [102] No, no, no. Changing the way your character looks should be entirely in game. Changing lighting, facial expression or background should be free and able to changed as easily as windows wallpaper (or possibly easier!) Changing clothes and accessories - well, as I posted elsewhere there's a whole potential new in-game market there. Changing your face, gender or even race - well, presumably in the Eve-verse it'd certainly be possible. However obviously there'd be restrictions, especially on those with criminal records (or on race-changing!). So maybe they have to do it through the black market... or maybe with a chance of its going horribly wrong... :-) Changing name... now that's another matter. Disposable alts are bad enough. Unless sa***uarded, this'd give disposable mains. A longtime main character will be given levels of trust far beyond a newbie alt. And do you really think the proceeds of bigtime corp theft couldn't sell for more RL money than the charge for changing an account name? No, if this is done we need identity tracking, so name history (e.g.) appears with employment history.
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2004.05.28 17:27:00 - [103] Hmm lets see what CHARISMA based skills could changing you avatar bring to the game? Tailoring - Clothes Tatooing - Tatoos Surgery - Face stucture Geneering - Bloodline Genetic surgery - Race and Sex Hairdressing :) - Hairstyle Makeup artist :) - Decoration Interior design :) - Background
Isiana	Posted - 2004.05.28 18:01:00 - [104] The one thing i dont understand is why you have to charge RL money for an ingame Change?!?! there cant be anything but greed behind this /me smells EA wannabe's Carebear\|Me Alts
Dafuzz	Posted - 2004.05.28 19:52:00 - [105] Originally by: Isiana The one thing i dont understand is why you have to charge RL money for an ingame Change?!?! there cant be anything but greed behind this /me smells EA wannabe's Playing Devil's Advocate... CCP is in business to make money. If the market is there to make more money, then they should go and do so. If the community wants added bells and whistles that are not a part of the game, and is willing to pay for it, then a price should be paid out of game, as CCP profits not one iota from in-game isk. In-game isk doesn't put food in the mouth of CCP employees. I am quite sure that they are having to spend some money for a developer's time in order to code this, that could most likely be spent elsewhere. Also think about this. The more extra features that are paid for, this may enable CCP to hire more personnel, or pay their current folks more money to keep them happy so that they will stay, thereby giving better service. Alternatively, it could enable them to drive faster cars or get larger home theater systems. Again, they are in the business to make money. They don't exist for you, they make a product that you want, and are apparantly willing to pay for. That said, I would like to see a warning at character creation that urges caution and care at selection time of your avatar, and that each image and character that you choose will be there until the account goes inactive or is recycled by the you, the owner. And share with them that their Avatar will be visible on the forums and in-game to other players. Now that you can purchase a replacement avatar of sorts, I feel that a warning of a future charge in order to change your avatar is appropriate as well. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Del Narveux	Posted - 2004.05.28 20:26:00 - [106] True. But remember also that we already pay them $15/month to play the game and post on the forum. So, in a way were already paying for the service, sort of like if you buy a car they might include a few free tanks of gas. _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Hanns	Posted - 2004.05.28 21:12:00 - [107] Originally by: Gan Howorth Hmm lets see what CHARISMA based skills could changing you avatar bring to the game? Tailoring - Clothes Tatooing - Tatoos Surgery - Face stucture Geneering - Bloodline Genetic surgery - Race and Sex Hairdressing :) - Hairstyle Makeup artist :) - Decoration Interior design :) - Background OMFG this is NOT the SIMS!
DarkStar251	Posted - 2004.05.28 22:02:00 - [108] Edited by: DarkStar251 on 28/05/2004 22:04:42 Changing of lighting/clothing should be subject to a 1 million isk fee (CONCORD or whoever have administrative costs associated with updating their records with a new picture. Changing of facial structure etc should be done at a medical facility (DNA restructuring), subject to a 10million isk fee, and the service should be performed on your clone, so it wont take effect untill you are podded. There should also be a period of time (1 week?) after the new look takes effect where you cannot tran a skill, as the procedure is quite invasive. This is an IN GAME action, whatever the dev blog says, and should stay as such. It seems we are heading for a slippery slope where you can pay RL cash for a new battleship, or extra attribute point. The day that happens I will cancel my Accounts.
Teela Belwynn	Posted - 2004.05.28 22:06:00 - [109] out-of-game paying for a in-game feature, no way, unless i win on the lottery. UNLIKELY ♥Teela's Galaxy!
Dafuzz	Posted - 2004.05.28 22:32:00 - [110] Originally by: Del Narveux True. But remember also that we already pay them $15/month to play the game and post on the forum. So, in a way were already paying for the service, sort of like if you buy a car they might include a few free tanks of gas. Del, thanks for the reminder, and I completely understand your point, and I agree as far as a basic subscription goes. All things considered, I think that $19.99 start up and $15.00 per month is a fair amount to pay for a basic game. Consider that I have never paid for a pay-to-play game before, and doubt I will again. Friends talked me into this, and if they were still playing, I would pod them for getting me hooked. If you play Eve every week day for 2 hours, and 6 hours on the weekend, that comes to 22 hours a week times 4 weeks, that is 88 hours of entertainment for $15.00. Not to mention, when you are connected, you use CCP's bandwidth, and are paying for continuing development and advertising costs, and for customer service costs. For all intents and purposes, the game is available for play at least 23/7 at your leisure. I personally now have no need for cable TV, as I play Eve most evenings, so this game actually saves me cash! So Eve as my main entertainment budget costs me $15 a month, where other things that occupy the same time frame would cost alot more. Without going too much further into this, I would bet that CCP's balance sheets are still in the red, but hopefully by now just into the black, so that there is a good reason for them to not stop development, and God forbid, shutting the servers down. With rising operating costs inherent with more subscriptions necessitating more people to handle more customer service and support complaints/issues, and the costs that were associated with the free beta that need to be made up, them (CCP) ostensibly capitalizing on an added feature to assist them in balancing the books and providing even better excellence in the gaming experience that we all enjoy is in my opinion an astute business tactic. In short: Unless Eve-Online is profitable, there is zero reason to continue. Running a game for goodwill and community spirit for a loss only goes so far. Personally, it has always irked me that people demand right-now service for what to me would seem to be a paltry sum for an opportunity to be a part of a wonderful community that utilizes cutting edge graphics technology and art. My 'paltry sum' rationale is this: 4 weeks per month, and 4 movie rentals per month: $5.00 x 4 = $20.00 (8 hours time total avg.) Cable TV: $60.00 Month 4 trips to movie theater at $10.00 per with a soda = $40.00 (9 hours time total avg.) I could go on, you get the idea. It is human nature for us to want more bang for our buck. Can't fault anyone for that. But when considering these issues, I ask that we look at the totality of the circumstances, and realize that we truly are getting a good value for the money that we spend. After all that, I guess I should say thanks to CCP for many hours of enjoyment, and good job. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.05.28 22:44:00 - [111] still waiting for the picture to update.
Teela Belwynn	Posted - 2004.05.28 22:45:00 - [112] made some quick graphical changes to myself, to illustrate what I'd like to have in the game, a ~200k img. linked below. what do you think? The many moods of Teela please CCP, be sensible. ♥Teela's Galaxy!
Galk	Posted - 2004.05.29 00:22:00 - [113] "It seems we are heading for a slippery slope where you can pay RL cash for a new battleship, or extra attribute point. The day that happens I will cancel my Accounts" very well said. I hope this is not though. Allways having hold ccp instead before, i pray ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Deprave	Posted - 2004.05.29 01:13:00 - [114] you know what I'd pay 40 bucks IF I could reallocate skill points from skills I never use or don't have use for to skills i need. as a newb I learnt skills that were a waste or took me in a direction that i no longer follow ie.. Amarr Indy lvl 3, it'd be nice to move those sp's to Gall Indy.. and so on.. 40 bucks for that feature I'd buy.. what they're currently offering now really.. I'll keep my avatar no matter my dislike for it, thats only worth say 5 bucks.. and maybe 20 to transfer a charater.
Katya Detia	Posted - 2004.05.29 01:39:00 - [115] Remember the people that have to use pay by cash aswell. There add a fee... so it all mounts up --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
DarkStar251	Posted - 2004.05.29 04:33:00 - [116] I'll pay ú40 to change 'CCP' to 'OCP' as i'm feeling its more appropriate.....
Xeria	Posted - 2004.05.29 10:53:00 - [117] Another feature i would quite like to see without being charged for is Account Freezing. This is where people who prepay subscriptions can freeze their accounts when they go on holiday like me during the summer. To stop people from abusing the system, i would say you can only change it once every 72 hours (3 days). However, if you have to pay for it, whats the point of implementing it, since im trying to save money by pausing my account while im on holiday Your Tachyon Beam Laser I places an excellent hit on arkad [MOO], inflicting 702.3 damage.
Falbala	Posted - 2004.05.29 11:06:00 - [118] I just did it. The surgeon said the operation went well. But my eyes will still look white because the color is too clear.
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.05.29 11:12:00 - [119] Edited by: Negotiator on 29/05/2004 11:31:55 if you changed your pic, post the old one here plz. here are mine: Linkage
Falbala	Posted - 2004.05.29 11:31:00 - [120] Edited by: Falbala on 29/05/2004 11:52:45 before after Still problem with eyes I did this in 15mn before downtime^^.

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