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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:44:00 -
[1]
Use this thread to discuss changes and provide feedback on speed changes. You can read about the changes here.
Note: The thread will be heavily moderated, keep the feedback constructive.
Nozh Game Designer CCP Games |
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.07.28 13:47:00 -
[2]
Err umm, are they up on sisi yet? If not, i can hardly see how we can discuss them besides theorycraft.
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EddieTheDog
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:03:00 -
[3]
Will it only be 7.5km scrams that affect MWD's or will the 21km do the same? Thanks.
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Helox
Gallente Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:04:00 -
[4]
Is it correct that the Rapid Deployment link only gives 25% to speed now? Wasn't there supposed to be a second bonus as well (inertia)? -- the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:11:00 -
[5]
Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
WTS: Domination 10mn MicroWarp Drive 3x Domination Overdrive
Send offers to me in game!
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mynnna
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: mynnna on 28/07/2008 14:15:20 Edited by: mynnna on 28/07/2008 14:15:01 Just the first of what will no doubt be many issues with this.
Except for a minor bonus of being able to overheat a little longer (maybe?), there is no reason to use a T2 MicroWarpDrive over a T1 model. The speed bonus is the same, the reactivation delay is the same, etc. The only difference is T2 uses more cap and takes more to fit. Named MWD is exactly the same as T1 aside from fitting as well. For that matter, the only benefit faction has now is somewhat reduced cap use and a small reduction in reactivation delay.
What's the incentive to fit named/T2 MWDs now?
Originally by: Sceelax Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
WTS: Domination 10mn MicroWarp Drive 3x Domination Overdrive
Send offers to me in game!
Over 50% reduction in speed. That's awfully heavy handed, CCP. You want to keep guerilla warfare viable? This isn't the way to do it. I'll see what I can do for constructive alternatives after work.
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:16:00 -
[7]
Can you atleast update the character so we aren't 2 months behind?
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Tomic
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:18:00 -
[8]
I've been on and tested a few nano setups and the nerf is much harder than even the dev blog let on. We're seeing over 60% drops in speed, enough to kill hacs as a viable ship to use in pvp. I will post more detailed feedback once I have had a day or two to test the nerf some more.
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LiMu Bai
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:19:00 -
[9]
This speed nerf is the biggest mistake CCP ever could do.
Honestly, dont touch anything, exept for some really extreme speeds.
Save the speed.
Quote: Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives.
Its the end....ccp what are you doing?
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Draahk Chimera
Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:24:00 -
[10]
I think it's cool that ceptors with afterburner is now becoming a very viable choice. I am however concerned that they are a little too slow to speed tank cruiser sized weapons (They arent supposed to speed tank frigate weapons, I know.) Therefore I was kind of miffed out about the fact that 'Rogue' MY-1 who is now moved to slot 6 affects both AB and MWD (didnt realize this before). How about inventing a new 'Rouge' that goes in slot 7 that affect AB only and leave MY-1 in slot 6 affecting mwd only?
Current speed tests for the curious: Vagabond = 3600 Stiletto (mwd) = 5300 Stiletto (ab) = 1800
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Broegitte Bardot
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Helox Is it correct that the Rapid Deployment link only gives 25% to speed now? Wasn't there supposed to be a second bonus as well (inertia)?
rapid deployment went from +3% to +2% speed _boost_ (iirc +25.88% total in a perfect claymore w/ mindlink)
the skirmish warfare skill (the plain gang skill) was switched from speed to agility alt of Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again) |
Rex Sacrorum
Gallente S-44
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:33:00 -
[12]
Reposting from the previous (now deleted) sticky.
Initially the MWD's (at least 10MN) seems messed up beyond comparison. T1 being better than T2 and Storyline probably best of all.
Also seems like the webifiers performances have been thrown about a little. Right now it seems like TS and Gal Navy are the best faction at 55%/15km and 60%/14km respectively. Also the pirate/empire navy versions doesn't mirror each other the way we are used to, (Caldari Navy and Dread Gurista modules usually have the same stats). Not sure it this was inteded or not.
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CCP Nozh
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:34:00 -
[13]
Seems like the MWD's got messed up somehow. The capacitor changes to them did not get moved over to SISI. Will be updated again today.
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:39:00 -
[14]
Still online and waiting for offers :)
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Helox
Gallente Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Broegitte Bardot
Originally by: Helox Is it correct that the Rapid Deployment link only gives 25% to speed now? Wasn't there supposed to be a second bonus as well (inertia)?
rapid deployment went from +3% to +2% speed _boost_ (iirc +25.88% total in a perfect claymore w/ mindlink)
the skirmish warfare skill (the plain gang skill) was switched from speed to agility
Sucks. But tnx. -- the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:53:00 -
[16]
SISI nanofibers and inertia stabilizers act on an attribute called 'inertia modifier' while polycarbons and low friction rigs act on an attribute called 'agility'.
Is 'inertia modifier' stacking penalized with 'agility' ?
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Tola
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:55:00 -
[17]
I've tested some Interceptor fittings, only fitted with T2 MWD, Nanofibers & Overdrives (Navigation V, Acceleration Control IV):
Taranis 2 Overdrives, 1 Nanofiber: 4632m/s (before 6052m/s) Ares 3 Overdrives, 1 Nanofiber: 5111m/s (before 7125m/s) Claw 3 Overdrives, 1 Nanofiber: 5322m/s (before 7420m/s) Stiletto 2 Overdrives, 1 Nanofiber: 4733m/s (before 6182m/s)
This means that the difference in speed between the Interceptors decreases. For example the Ares is only 500m/s faster than the Taranis, so it's only big advantage is the Warp Disruptor/Scrambler Bonus, while the Taranis is still doing much more dmg. Thus the Taranis is getting more versatile compared to the other Interceptors, especially compared to the Interceptors wich were only designed to be fast tacklers.
I think, as you decreased the bonus of the Overdrives/Nanofibers (=> an Interceptor gets less speed from his low-slots), you've to adjust the base speed of the Interceptors.
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chao226
Dark Entropy G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.07.28 14:56:00 -
[18]
I havent had a chance to log on to sisi yet in the process of copying my eve folder now.
from what i have read here and on the dev blog I do hav a suggestion the current nerf seams to be disigned mainly to reduce max speed of most ships with the warp scrambler being the only wepon added agisnt speed.
from the posts i have read the speed drop for some ships are massive.
I would suggest to still have a reduction on speed but not as extreme. but add more wepons to combat speed.
for expample. the 7.5kl scram now deactivates mwd. how about changeing this so that 20k scrams will reduce the speed bonus of an mwd from 500% to say 200%-300% and the 7.5k mwd reduce further to 100%-150% with t2 and faction you can still keep the extra max speed bouns parhaps tweaked a bit.
bubbles and diector bubbles could half effective ness of mwd.
thisd would mean that speed would not be as hard hit but other types of gangs would beable to combat them any thoughts?
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AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sceelax Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
WTS: Domination 10mn MicroWarp Drive 3x Domination Overdrive
Send offers to me in game!
2.7k is still dang fast considering that all other ships will have the same type of speed reduction and a non-nano cruiser with MWD will do 1.5k. Nano ships will still be the fastest ships in game, the only difference is that other then heavy webbs or other nanos, ppl will be able to hit you.
I love every bit of the patch. Well done CCP. Gangs now will be a bit more diversified again... (not only made of 5 types of HACs and 2 types of recons anymore)
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Broegitte Bardot
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Endless Subversion SISI nanofibers and inertia stabilizers act on an attribute called 'inertia modifier' while polycarbons and low friction rigs act on an attribute called 'agility'.
Is 'inertia modifier' stacking penalized with 'agility' ?
it should the same thing - does inertia mod (ship info - attributes) decrease properly with every module? alt of Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again) |
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Euriti
Gallente SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sceelax Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
WTS: Domination 10mn MicroWarp Drive 3x Domination Overdrive
Send offers to me in game!
2.7k is still dang fast considering that all other ships will have the same type of speed reduction and a non-nano cruiser with MWD will do 1.5k. Nano ships will still be the fastest ships in game, the only difference is that other then heavy webbs or other nanos, ppl will be able to hit you.
I love every bit of the patch. Well done CCP. Gangs now will be a bit more diversified again... (not only made of 5 types of HACs and 2 types of recons anymore)
That fit above requires billions of isk investment and it can't even speedtank properly.
BILLIONS of isk.
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:21:00 -
[22]
1.8B to be exact, with all the fittings and implants. I guess I'll be moving all those mods over to my arazu and invest in a Domi Scram.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Broegitte Bardot
Originally by: Endless Subversion SISI nanofibers and inertia stabilizers act on an attribute called 'inertia modifier' while polycarbons and low friction rigs act on an attribute called 'agility'.
Is 'inertia modifier' stacking penalized with 'agility' ?
it should the same thing - does inertia mod (ship info - attributes) decrease properly with every module?
I realize that the effect on the ship is the same for using agility or inertia. I ask because before a reduction is mass was the same as a reduction in inertia plus a speed bonus minus a stacking penalty. And it sounds like this is happening all over again with modules effecting 'agility' or 'inertia' when it's the same thing.
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DTson Gauur
Underground-Operators
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: AshtarDJ
I love every bit of the patch. Well done CCP. Gangs now will be a bit more diversified again... (not only made of 5 types of HACs and 2 types of recons anymore)
Sadly now the gang will be 50 remoterepping BS' with few token dictors/ceptors thrown in...
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Jallem Sims
Minmatar Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sceelax Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
WTS: Domination 10mn MicroWarp Drive 3x Domination Overdrive
Send offers to me in game!
2.7k is still dang fast considering that all other ships will have the same type of speed reduction and a non-nano cruiser with MWD will do 1.5k. Nano ships will still be the fastest ships in game, the only difference is that other then heavy webbs or other nanos, ppl will be able to hit you.
I love every bit of the patch. Well done CCP. Gangs now will be a bit more diversified again... (not only made of 5 types of HACs and 2 types of recons anymore)
not very constructive tbh?
what your saying, is thats its still fast compairing to? He is fitting a speed tank, and there for should be able to tank something? but i am guessing he will be able to out transvere turrets, but completely owned by missiles. Thus, is speed is no longer viable tank in pvp. -1 option.
i thought this thread was meant to be testers respones on what is actually like. Please remove this and the post quoted as it will only cause more flame :( |
Mes Ren
No Trademark Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Euriti
Originally by: AshtarDJ
Originally by: Sceelax Just tried my ishtar with Snake set, 3% rogues, zor, domination MWD, domination overdrives. Before: 6.2k/s After: 2.7k/s
*gets obliterated by a ratting drake*
WTS: Domination 10mn MicroWarp Drive 3x Domination Overdrive
Send offers to me in game!
2.7k is still dang fast considering that all other ships will have the same type of speed reduction and a non-nano cruiser with MWD will do 1.5k. Nano ships will still be the fastest ships in game, the only difference is that other then heavy webbs or other nanos, ppl will be able to hit you.
I love every bit of the patch. Well done CCP. Gangs now will be a bit more diversified again... (not only made of 5 types of HACs and 2 types of recons anymore)
That fit above requires billions of isk investment and it can't even speedtank properly.
BILLIONS of isk.
I can only figure the must be a mistake or just lack of proper testing. First, if you dump the domination gear, you'll save a ton of isk and get the same performance speed wise under the new rules. Not sure it 3% rogues are the top end now (didn't get a chance to check before test was taken down), if it isn't, then you can get more speed with the 5%, but lets assume it isn't. As far as speed tank, once you hit the 2km mark, you can speed tank all bs turrets (taking less than 5% dmg total - doesn't matter how fast you are, some shots just hit) and you take less than 10% dmg from heavy missles (non percesion). When you get up to 2.7km you are taking a lot less dmg. Yes, you aren't invulerable now, and this is definately the part where those "superior pilot and pvp skills" come into play, but you are taking about taking less than 8% damage from anything larger than a frig. That is the very definition of "tanking". ________________________
No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
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reivol
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:48:00 -
[27]
Edited by: reivol on 28/07/2008 15:49:55
Originally by: Euriti
That fit above requires billions of isk investment and it can't even speedtank properly.
Ermmm quoted for correction : it can't even AVOID DAMAGE properly. <= that only is true
Because as said earlier, it WILL speedtank, and pretty well : - against a drake with heavy missile, 2,7km/s is 71% damage reduction - agains a drake with precision heavy missile, 2,7km/s is 54% damage reduction
So we can say that yes, it will speedtank, it will speedtank better than any armor or shield tank you can find ....
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Sceelax
Endemic Aggression
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:57:00 -
[28]
Update: I hadn't removed the Rogue CY and MY implants which now occupy the same slot as the snake omega. New top speed: 2.5k
I am now going to test whether it is better to fit the CY, MY or Omega implant.
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Kay Han
Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.28 15:59:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kay Han on 28/07/2008 15:59:14 awesome.. now we canŠt even "tank" cruise missiles propperly in a vaga :/
Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
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Broegitte Bardot
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.28 16:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: Broegitte Bardot
Originally by: Endless Subversion SISI nanofibers and inertia stabilizers act on an attribute called 'inertia modifier' while polycarbons and low friction rigs act on an attribute called 'agility'.
Is 'inertia modifier' stacking penalized with 'agility' ?
it should the same thing - does inertia mod (ship info - attributes) decrease properly with every module?
I realize that the effect on the ship is the same for using agility or inertia. I ask because before a reduction is mass was the same as a reduction in inertia plus a speed bonus minus a stacking penalty. And it sounds like this is happening all over again with modules effecting 'agility' or 'inertia' when it's the same thing.
not quite. the mass is there as its own attribute. it has influence on a) align time (in s)= mass * inertia-mod / 10000 not sure how many digits b) speed boost "modifier" = thrust / ship-mass-including-speed-boost-module-weight-blah
but there is just one entry in the database for agility/inertia, or rather... no extra one. alt of Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again) |
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