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Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.07.30 13:58:00 -
[1]
The new changes has brought back life to AFs. I can now effectively orbit under the guns of most cruiser, bcs and BSs using an AB. Using an AB eliminates most cap problems i have, even when being neuted i usually have enough cap to keep going if i use a highslot for a nos.
Anyone done anymore testing of AFs on SiSi?
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:03:00 -
[2]
i assume this is under web? and how is the dps isnt it to tiny to take down BC:s in?
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Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:05:00 -
[3]
it is too tiny, my AF normally only do around 200 dps. But my speed is around 450-600 m/s WHILE webbed when using an AB. I'm quite pleased about this change as it actually gives 2-3 AFs the chance to take down BCs or even BS's if they get lucky to run into a bad tanked BS.
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Snow Banshee
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:06:00 -
[4]
pls be a bit more specific :
1) what AF you are using
2) your orbit distance
3) your orbit velocity
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Tassi
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:08:00 -
[5]
Anything else than an ishkur is crap anyhow, jaguar may be alright aswell.
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Wil Smithx
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:12:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Kano Sekor
i assume this is under web? and how is the dps isnt it to tiny to take down BC:s in?
Prob depend on relative ships...
No af will take down a drake or myrm unless the pilot of the BC is an idiot, harb and cane sport weaker armour tanks and may die to a high dps ship like the ishkur.
Though thats talking in tanking terms for the BC, it would be a damned hostile enviroment to pilot an AF in TBH
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Denuo Secus on 30/07/2008 14:13:01
Originally by: Tassi
Anything else than an ishkur is crap anyhow, jaguar may be alright aswell.
Why? Some other ASs do also approx 200DPS...
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:15:00 -
[8]
I'm looking forward to using my taranis, assault ship, to do exactly that. Pew pew pew!
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Yaro
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:15:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Yaro on 30/07/2008 14:15:57
wait till you meet cruise missile raven with precision t2 missiles and neutralizers + drones :) you will die in few seconds, or other missile or drone bazed BC/BS/Hac.
Af are useless anyway
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:22:00 -
[10]
Wait unitill you meet this, wait untill you meet that. There is always that killer. I personally like AS and now that they are getting a boost, even more. It doesn't matter what you fly. You will always get into the poo one way or another.
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Yaro
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Wait unitill you meet this, wait untill you meet that. There is always that killer. I personally like AS and now that they are getting a boost, even more. It doesn't matter what you fly. You will always get into the poo one way or another.
AF arent getting a boost, its other ships get nerfed !
But anyway, AF were useless before that stupid patch and they will be useless against anything with neutralisers and drones.
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Bufo8o2
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:29:00 -
[12]
A blaster harpy can go over 250dps and still keep a decent tank and afterburner, it can even get near 300dps with a damage rig. Assault frigs can't be that useless especially if they're getting boosted with the patch.
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MenanceWhite
Amarr
Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:33:00 -
[13]
Wow it's not as if they were'nt able to do this before. All they've been given is a slight base max speed bonus. It's true that their mass got reduced alot, but did'nt their inertia modifier also get increased?
They're usefull as heavy tacklers and as damage dealers in frig gangs. As for whatever else- well they're able to solokill cruisers now by scram+orbit under turrets, but it's not as if normal frigs has'nt been able to do that before.
I mean, look up your basic bleed punisher fitting - people has been able to solo stupid brutix and feroxes in those. AFs can do the same now, just abit faster thanks to higher DPS.
---
Originally by: Torfi
There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Yaro
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:36:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Yaro on 30/07/2008 14:37:22
Originally by: Bufo8o2
A blaster harpy can go over 250dps and still keep a decent tank and afterburner, it can even get near 300dps with a damage rig. Assault frigs can't be that useless especially if they're getting boosted with the patch.
Dear Bufobo2,
First of all its other ships getting nerfed. And if you dont believe me, that AF cannot tank, take a corp m8 with a hac, BC, BS equiped with neutralisers, missiles and drones and see how long will you last. Just make sure you do this on Sisi and your copr m8 is capable to pilot a ship.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Yaro
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Wait unitill you meet this, wait untill you meet that. There is always that killer. I personally like AS and now that they are getting a boost, even more. It doesn't matter what you fly. You will always get into the poo one way or another.
AF arent getting a boost, its other ships get nerfed !
But anyway, AF were useless before that stupid patch and they will be useless against anything with neutralisers and drones.
One of the first things I would do in my blaster harpy tackling larger targets, was to web and point the big ship - but fire my guns on its drones - before turning them onto the tackled ship. I also carried a small NOS (cycles faster than large neuts).
By yourself, against a competant BC/BS pilot - yep you'd die, or lose the tackle when you get neuted hard - but its a small cheaper ship - bring a freind or two and you ought to win.
The changes seem to be giving the AF a tackling ability that lets it exceed a cruiser in some respects.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Pax Empyrean
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:38:00 -
[16]
Quote:
AF arent getting a boost, its other ships get nerfed !
No, that's just wrong. Assault Frigates are getting their mass reduced by almost half. Direct buff.
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ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:39:00 -
[17]
Wow... I've been doing this in rifters for years now.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:45:00 -
[18]
I had some fun in a Hawk  on Sisi, fit as a heavy tackler with AB and scrambler. It's still a bit slow (800 m/s), but it had some nice features:
Fifth highslot for a small nos to keep tackle/AB running.
Rockets to slaughter light drones.
No longer gimped for PG/CPU, since MWD is no longer essential.
No longer gimped for midslots, since scrambler is effectively webber and disruptor.
Nice tank - I had MSE buffer and a small booster, which could almost permarun with the nos working and no neuts on me.
I tackled and beat a Vaga in it, then got casually wasted by an Ishtar's neuts and drones.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:50:00 -
[19]
Im looking forward to the new assault ships, as they will be good in a small 3-5 man gangs, and have the ability to handle larger targets without getting fried (except for missiles...grumbles...) Nonetheless I think its a good change for them I and expect to see a lot more Jaguars/Wolfs on the field.
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Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.07.30 14:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Terraform on 30/07/2008 14:51:08
my point isn't "hey, the AFs rule now!" it's more like "wow, an AF can actually kill other things than frigs and badly piloted cruisers now".
I'm aware that the AFs range of targeted ships is small, but atleast they can do SOMETHING now instead of being eyecandy that explodes in bright colors.
edited for better reading
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Elhina Novae
Amarr
Destruction Reborn
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.07.30 15:48:00 -
[21]
Small ships coming back to life?
------------
Somebody set up us the bomb |
Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Out of Order
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Small ships coming back to life?
SOME coming back to life, others being put into a coffin.
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 30/07/2008 16:22:21
Originally by: Yaro
Edited by: Yaro on 30/07/2008 14:15:57
wait till you meet cruise missile raven with precision t2 missiles and neutralizers + drones :) you will die in few seconds, or other missile or drone bazed BC/BS/Hac.
Af are useless anyway
if you had followed this topic in the forum carefully you would know that ccp will also balance missiles to be inline with the changes ;P OH NOES your dreambubble collapse! your drones die fast to a 200+ dps frigate and you can counter a neut easily.
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Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:42:00 -
[24]
Well, i don't care what people think about AFs, i'm looking forward to finally seeing them back in action. roaming gangs full of inties and AFs could prove fairly challenging to take down now, instead of the usual neuts+webs=dead frig always. |
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:49:00 -
[25]
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
Yup, SBs will be come more important as will neuts. This means ships with utility high slots will get a boost. Ofcourse minmatar conveniently forget that because they are too busy whining about every ship they have.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
like smartbombs dmg would be enough to take down an assault frig
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
like smartbombs dmg would be enough to take down an assault frig
Yeah but its not as easy to kill drones now with web nerf. So yeah SBs are useful.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Amandin Adouin
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
/Off topic
"Remember people, do not fear the evil that surrounds you. Do not avoid the hounds of hell. Do not avoid the beasts of brimstone. Do not avoid the puppies of purgatory..." 
/Back on topic
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.07.30 16:59:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 30/07/2008 17:00:39
hmm oke thats true but drones dps is not that significant except on some boats with dmg bonus, I would always take a remote rep on my bs for my gang over a smarty.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2008.07.30 17:08:00 -
[31]
Is a small nos on an AS able to counter a medium or large neut?
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.07.30 17:21:00 -
[32]
Depends on how much cap you'll use. With just an AB running yes, it would counter 1 med or large neut (they are too slow between neut times). If you can't run off of however much cap you get from 1 nos or don't have your AB and nos timed together so you get neuted after you get nossed but before your ab reactivates, you are screwed.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.07.30 17:34:00 -
[33]
with the cycle timer on a small nos i doubt you'd have any trouble getting cap back (and spending it) before the next neut cycle hits, it's mor troublesome if it's a sentinel or another small neut...
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.07.30 18:02:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Denuo Secus
Edited by: Denuo Secus on 30/07/2008 14:13:01
Originally by: Tassi
Anything else than an ishkur is crap anyhow, jaguar may be alright aswell.
Why? Some other ASs do also approx 200DPS...
... or 300 even. A ranis gets around 200 nicely skilled/fit.
The ishkur is a good ship but not a reason to go gallente AFs, IMO. Everyone knows how powerful the curse is... well, compare its little brother to the ishkur and come to your own conclusion. The amarr ceptors are pretty good too so that frig 5 train is a pretty good deal.
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Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.07.30 18:58:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Yaro
Edited by: Yaro on 30/07/2008 14:15:57
wait till you meet cruise missile raven with precision t2 missiles and neutralizers + drones :) you will die in few seconds, or other missile or drone bazed BC/BS/Hac.
Af are useless anyway
Just wanted to point out the fallacy of this assumption. When using an AB, the sig radius of AF's is tiny, absolutely tiny. Precision Cruise missiles are going to do almost 1/4 damage against an assault frig. This means you are facing 100 DPS tops from a raven using precision cruises and 3 damage mods. When you count in your resistances, this becomes a very non-scary situation. Pop the drones and you are in very little danger.
The true danger to assault ships will be as it always should have been, smaller ship classes fit specifically to fight small ships, not BS's, and definately not the cruise raven. 
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 19:02:00 -
[36]
even now without the speed boost, a full passive shield jag with AB can tank a raven with torps like u have mentioned...its only the lack of solo dps that holds it back. drones arent too much of a worry, its other frigates and dessies with good gank fit that are the worry.
Horray for thr re-birth of small ship combat viability on a wider scale!!!
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2008.07.30 19:19:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Deadeye Devie
Horray for thr re-birth of small ship combat viability on a wider scale!!!
\o/
Cannot wait when it will reach TQ. When was that? 
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Berendas
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Posted - 2008.07.30 19:22:00 -
[38]
I can't wait to jump into my Enyo and be useful at long last
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.30 20:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Yaro
Edited by: Yaro on 30/07/2008 14:15:57
wait till you meet cruise missile raven with precision t2 missiles and neutralizers + drones :) you will die in few seconds, or other missile or drone bazed BC/BS/Hac.
Af are useless anyway
Yes, but a Megathron with small guns also kills AFs very well. Of course, when it meets another BS, then things go bad, very bad.
AFs are useful now. You have no clue.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:17:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Deadeye Devie on 30/07/2008 21:19:33
i, for 1 wish to thank Branko for testing these situations out so that we know, from what ive come to know as a competent and well practiced AF user, what to expect from this class, post patch.
heres to seeing more AFs ganged and roaming!!! time to finish off caldari frigates so i can use em all!!!!
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Berendas
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:36:00 -
[41]
So now that its pretty definite, what roles would you guys suggest using for an Enyo and Ishkur, I have both but I don;t know which to use for which situation.
Also, I move that this topic's name be changed from 'AFs are working now, kinda' to 'AFs are working now, HELLZ YEAH'
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:39:00 -
[42]
Indeed, great stuff Branko! Thx for testing
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Spectre3353
Gallente
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:46:00 -
[43]
This is really cool to hear. Thanks for the info Branko.
-----
http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:50:00 -
[44]
Lets just hope they dont overdo it on any side. AF's are on the edge right now, and a single tweak in anything would ruin their shot at being useful again.
Keep hoping that whoever enters the next set of changes in the SiSi DB isnt a butterfingers guy.
-
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.30 21:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Berendas
So now that its pretty definite, what roles would you guys suggest using for an Enyo and Ishkur, I have both but I don;t know which to use for which situation.
So far I would suggest using the Ishkur for everything if you have any drone skills to speak of. The only use of the Enyo I can see is maybe using rails and being a frigate-sized sniper. Maybe with a few speed mods. Sorry 
If it had a extra damage bonus and some more fitting space you could treat it as a Gallente Wolf, but unfortunately it doesn't.
On the upside, the Ishkur really rocks.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.31 18:41:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Deadeye Devie on 31/07/2008 18:42:30
me? im planning to use my ishkur as a logistics and combat frigate, carry 1 full complement of repper drones and 1 full compliment of gobbie 2s...add a tracking disrupter with tracking speed script and follow on after a jag and harpey i know, maybe get 1 or 2 others in on this. jag with scram, harpey with web...maybe a wolf or 2 with another web or something....should be fun gang work!!!
hmmm....pure neut vengence......could be fun...must see if it works....
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tassi
Anything else than an ishkur is crap anyhow, jaguar may be alright aswell.
BLARPY!!!!!!
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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:34:00 -
[48]
blarpys and jags all shield tank with ishkur using shield repper drones in emergencies!!!!
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Shardrael
Caldari
Titan Industries Technology Team
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Posted - 2008.07.31 22:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Bufo8o2
A blaster harpy can go over 250dps and still keep a decent tank and afterburner, it can even get near 300dps with a damage rig. Assault frigs can't be that useless especially if they're getting boosted with the patch.
try and hit the broad side of a barn while orbiting at speed on a blaster harpy though, even if you manage to hit a little you are not pulling anywhere near 250 with all the misses
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.08.01 06:28:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 01/08/2008 06:32:17
Originally by: Shardrael
Originally by: Bufo8o2
A blaster harpy can go over 250dps and still keep a decent tank and afterburner, it can even get near 300dps with a damage rig. Assault frigs can't be that useless especially if they're getting boosted with the patch.
try and hit the broad side of a barn while orbiting at speed on a blaster harpy though, even if you manage to hit a little you are not pulling anywhere near 250 with all the misses
I did the math and even with AB on, you will hit 75-95% of time for full dmg because of the fact that your are moving slower to keep orbit and you will be probably webbed too.
btw I think AS still need they lost 4th bonus.
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Trigos Trilobi
X-Fire
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Posted - 2008.08.01 06:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shardrael
try and hit the broad side of a barn while orbiting at speed on a blaster harpy though, even if you manage to hit a little you are not pulling anywhere near 250 with all the misses
You might not hit another frig orbitting at full speed, but you will hit a cruiser very well due to your weapon sig resolution vs cruiser sig radius acting as a 3-4x multiplier for your tracking. If you're still missing a cruiser, you can safely slow down a bit or even turn ab off, if you can't hit with small blaster tracking (times 3-4x), the cruiser sure as hell won't hit you with cruiser gun tracking (divided by 3-4 for same reason).
My sisi testing with a rifter against a thorax proved this pretty well, unwebbed with or without ab the only risk was the drones. Basically it seems that you need to fit same mods as the cruiser as a bare minimum, eg. if you only have scram, you might be in trouble if the cruiser as either ab or a web, if you have ab+scram, you're safe unless the cruiser has ab+web or dual webs.
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.08.01 06:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: Shardrael
try and hit the broad side of a barn while orbiting at speed on a blaster harpy though, even if you manage to hit a little you are not pulling anywhere near 250 with all the misses
You might not hit another frig orbitting at full speed, but you will hit a cruiser very well due to your weapon sig resolution vs cruiser sig radius acting as a 3-4x multiplier for your tracking. If you're still missing a cruiser, you can safely slow down a bit or even turn ab off, if you can't hit with small blaster tracking (times 3-4x), the cruiser sure as hell won't hit you with cruiser gun tracking (divided by 3-4 for same reason).
My sisi testing with a rifter against a thorax proved this pretty well, unwebbed with or without ab the only risk was the drones. Basically it seems that you need to fit same mods as the cruiser as a bare minimum, eg. if you only have scram, you might be in trouble if the cruiser as either ab or a web, if you have ab+scram, you're safe unless the cruiser has ab+web or dual webs.
he will hit frigs very well too except maybe some ghey interceptors but those go down pretty fast against an AS =P
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.08.01 07:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: MenanceWhite
Wow it's not as if they were'nt able to do this before.
90% web = dead Assault Frigate
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.01 07:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tassi
Anything else than an ishkur is crap anyhow, jaguar may be alright aswell.
nonsense.
Harpy can fit med guns out to 100km.
U can not say that is not cool for a frig
poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123
caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:02:00 -
[55]
I have an Enyo that does 300 DPS.
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Faydelm
Caldari
Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:53:00 -
[56]
I don't know how great a boost they got to be honest. I've killed many AFs on SISI in all types of ships: ishtar, harbinger, and hurricane. They start shooting my drones I pull them in and spit them out. I haven't been solo'd by one these "boosted" AFs yet. Anyone want to 1v1 my ishtar on sisi?
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:58:00 -
[57]
This thread makes me happy :D
/me hugs his Ishkur,
ive been flying my ishkur even when ppl says it is broken but with its high resists against blasters it can take out thoraxes nicely.
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Trigos Trilobi
X-Fire
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Posted - 2008.08.01 09:08:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 01/08/2008 09:10:27
Originally by: Faydelm
I don't know how great a boost they got to be honest. I've killed many AFs on SISI in all types of ships: ishtar, harbinger, and hurricane. They start shooting my drones I pull them in and spit them out. I haven't been solo'd by one these "boosted" AFs yet. Anyone want to 1v1 my ishtar on sisi?
Well, I'm not surprised if you can kill an AF in a t2 cruiser (especially a drone hac) or a bc. T1 cruiser is more equal match, and even that only if the cruiser is turret based. The durability however is greatly enhanced now if you use an ab+scram smaller ship class against a turret based bigger class, so you can tackle in web range a lot longer than 10 secs like on TQ.
Quote:
90% web = dead Assault Frigate
Yep the 60% webs and specifically the scram change are the key here. Previously, a bigger ship could always web + hit mwd, and the smaller ship only had the option of either being slower -> 0 transversal and a pretty explosion soon after, or hit mwd and lose the sig radius advantage, again resulting in fireworks.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.08.01 09:28:00 -
[59]
A gang on enyos in now a scary, scary thing. Fit them with 4 guns + nos, ion blasters EAT drones even heavies, so 3-4 will rapidly take down drones first and then everything else. Great for taking down larger targets (exactly how they should be).
---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.01 10:31:00 -
[60]
hmm...
jav rocket vengys or benyos...
choices... choices
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.01 11:11:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/08/2008 11:11:25
Originally by: Faydelm
I don't know how great a boost they got to be honest. I've killed many AFs on SISI in all types of ships: ishtar, harbinger, and hurricane. They start shooting my drones I pull them in and spit them out. I haven't been solo'd by one these "boosted" AFs yet. Anyone want to 1v1 my ishtar on sisi?
I don't intend to try to kill drone HACs with a AF. If I could, it would mean something is broken preety badly, don't you think?
However, I can tackle in webrange vs a turret cruiser for fairly long now - unlike the current situation on TQ (where it takes my Rupture/Hurricane literally seconds to gank a AF), and drone micromenagement is required to kill it.
The old 'MWD away and drop transversal to 0' trick is gone now thanks to the new scram, and the 60% web makes combat much more fluid vs a bigger ship. Basically, it's what AF users (and I use AFs on TQ at times, even in their sorry state) have been asking for all the time - a fighting chance ;)
Furthermore, agility/speed boost to AFs enables safer roaming in low-sec.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Zarnak Wulf
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 11:42:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Faydelm
I don't know how great a boost they got to be honest. I've killed many AFs on SISI in all types of ships: ishtar, harbinger, and hurricane. They start shooting my drones I pull them in and spit them out. I haven't been solo'd by one these "boosted" AFs yet. Anyone want to 1v1 my ishtar on sisi?
I love my wolf. I've killed a vaga and deimos 1vs1 on sisi. I teamed up w/ another AF to kill a cyclone on sisi. I've also been absolutely pwned by the above ships as well at other times on the test server. It depends on setup and luck. AF have a fighting chance now and are NOT something you want orbiting your cruiser/BC at 500m.
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Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 11:46:00 -
[63]
Even IF you can kill an AF in your Ishtar it means absolutely nothing because you're putting an assault frigate against an assault cruiser.
If i was able to solo HACs in my AF, something would be terribly wrong, try fighting 2 AFs and see what the outcome is, i bet your drones will go poof faster than you can pull them in 
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Pretty Ivan
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:51:00 -
[64]
This makes me happy in my pants!
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 12:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Terraform
Even IF you can kill an AF in your Ishtar it means absolutely nothing because you're putting an assault frigate against an assault cruiser.
If i was able to solo HACs in my AF, something would be terribly wrong, try fighting 2 AFs and see what the outcome is, i bet your drones will go poof faster than you can pull them in
Well the point of the new patch is that AF are now the hit and run ships they were supposed to be from the beginning. Nothing wrong with them being effective.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 13:37:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Well the point of the new patch is that AF are now the hit and run ships they were supposed to be from the beginning. Nothing wrong with them being effective.
I'm agreeing with this.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 13:55:00 -
[67]
Oh man...this may be what actually convinces me to start training gunnery skills. 
----------------
Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 13:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Tarminic
Oh man...this may be what actually convinces me to start training gunnery skills.
Or Amarr frigate V, they don't need gunneries 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
oMAKo
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:01:00 -
[69]
Now do i get a Enyo or ishkur... Everyone says the latter is better but i have average drone skills at best... Got about 7 mill invested in gunnery but the enyo only has 2 mids...
Kiroshi Group |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:27:00 -
[70]
Edited by: The Djego on 01/08/2008 18:28:35
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Berendas
So now that its pretty definite, what roles would you guys suggest using for an Enyo and Ishkur, I have both but I don;t know which to use for which situation.
So far I would suggest using the Ishkur for everything if you have any drone skills to speak of. The only use of the Enyo I can see is maybe using rails and being a frigate-sized sniper. Maybe with a few speed mods. Sorry
If it had a extra damage bonus and some more fitting space you could treat it as a Gallente Wolf, but unfortunately it doesn't.
On the upside, the Ishkur really rocks.
I tested the Enyo quite a bit on Sissi, manual Piloting will help your Blasters very good(actualy i even would say I didn¦t have any of the Problems i faced while Testing Thorax and Mega). With a Overloaded MWD it goes a bit over 3km/s and with its new agility it realy feels like a preaty agressive Ship, what i purely love now, given the fact that so many bigger Blaster ships suffer now in this department.
MWD + Scram is pure win on it, even if you are webbed you still stay agile to dedicate Range with manual piloting and won¦t get hit so hard. Soloed a Thorax, Carcal, Harpy, was hammering down a Apoc(that I engaged at 80km thx to manual Piloting you can make it) and got driven of by a Manticore twice, before i soloed it as he wasn¦t cloaked as as i warped in. It is quite surpising how you can aplay all your knowlage how to use a Nano ship now on a Blaster Ship(exept you still go close and nail it).
For real Enyo is pure win now and a preaty deacend little Blaster Ship now. 
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: oMAKo
Now do i get a Enyo or ishkur...
Why not have someone else in the other?
IE: Gank-fit Enyo with a tank-fit Ishkur sporting ECM drones
Overall I am really enjoying the changes. I've killed every T1 cruiser a few times over (Thorax are tricky) in my Ishkur, and it's safe to say that if you know how to fit an AF you should have no trouble killing a cruiser. Hell, even some HACs like the Vagabond, Deimos & Cerb should really stay out of scram range else they want some serious trouble.
HOWEVER, the usability of these ships is completely dependent on whether or not CCP goes through with the changes. Scam boost is a must, as is the web nerf and mass adjustment. If things go back to what they were, then AFs go back to exploding.
FRIGANK |
oMAKo
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:33:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
Originally by: oMAKo
Now do i get a Enyo or ishkur...
Why not have someone else in the other?
IE: Gank-fit Enyo with a tank-fit Ishkur sporting ECM drones
Overall I am really enjoying the changes. I've killed every T1 cruiser a few times over (Thorax are tricky) in my Ishkur, and it's safe to say that if you know how to fit an AF you should have no trouble killing a cruiser. Hell, even some HACs like the Vagabond, Deimos & Cerb should really stay out of scram range else they want some serious trouble.
HOWEVER, the usability of these ships is completely dependent on whether or not CCP goes through with the changes. Scam boost is a must, as is the web nerf and mass adjustment. If things go back to what they were, then AFs go back to exploding.
Yeah, i'd be looking to use them in gangs with my corp mates. I might use the AB rather than a MWD though, given the proposed changes. Will also help with any cap issues.
Kiroshi Group |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 18:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
(Thorax are tricky) in my Ishkur
Yes I remember this one it was my Thorax, quite a very deacend and close one(about 50% Structure left on the Ishkur as my Memory serves me right, using Overheat and any little Trick you can bring on the table in a 1o1), realy liked it a lot.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Dzajic
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 19:22:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
Originally by: oMAKo
Now do i get a Enyo or ishkur...
Why not have someone else in the other?
IE: Gank-fit Enyo with a tank-fit Ishkur sporting ECM drones
Overall I am really enjoying the changes. I've killed every T1 cruiser a few times over (Thorax are tricky) in my Ishkur, and it's safe to say that if you know how to fit an AF you should have no trouble killing a cruiser. Hell, even some HACs like the Vagabond, Deimos & Cerb should really stay out of scram range else they want some serious trouble.
HOWEVER, the usability of these ships is completely dependent on whether or not CCP goes through with the changes. Scam boost is a must, as is the web nerf and mass adjustment. If things go back to what they were, then AFs go back to exploding.
Could it still work with some other module for disabling MWD and webs keeping old strengths but being reduced according to targets signature or a new stat like propulsion strength(integrity)?
|
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 19:49:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Prometheus Exenthal on 01/08/2008 19:49:46
I don't fit webs on my AFs, just a scram.
And I've never fit a MWD on them, always AB.
FRIGANK |
Denuo Secus
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 20:39:00 -
[76]
Originally by: The Djego
....manual Piloting will help your Blasters very good(actualy i even would say I didn¦t have any of the Problems i faced while Testing Thorax and Mega)....
I read occasionally about manual piloting here. But I just don't get it yet. 
Whats wrong with "Orbit @ x m"? I would understand that "Keep distance" is a bad idea in an AS against a bigger ship but orbiting sounds ok for me so far...?
And what kind of manual maneuvers will bring advantages?
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 20:47:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
Yup, SBs will be come more important as will neuts. This means ships with utility high slots will get a boost. Ofcourse minmatar conveniently forget that because they are too busy whining about every ship they have.
Excellent, the tempest will now be able to stalemate an assault frigate! Rejoice!
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The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 21:51:00 -
[78]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
Yup, SBs will be come more important as will neuts. This means ships with utility high slots will get a boost. Ofcourse minmatar conveniently forget that because they are too busy whining about every ship they have.
Excellent, the tempest will now be able to stalemate an assault frigate! Rejoice!
Well atm Drones and smaller ships got quite a boost, so Modules to counter them effectly(since Webs don¦t any more) are very good options, the ability to fit a Smartbomb or/and! a Heavy Neut is now like the ability to fit extra Nos/ECM before they got nerfed... 
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 21:54:00 -
[79]
Mmm, I've actually had to revise my Rupture fittings to make it handle AFs better, although I'm still worried about things like the Vengeance which can tank a lot for such a small ship ;P
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 21:56:00 -
[80]
Originally by: The Djego
Well atm Drones and smaller ships got quite a boost, so Modules to counter them effectly(since Webs don¦t any more) are very good options, the ability to fit a Smartbomb or/and! a Heavy Neut is now like the ability to fit extra Nos/ECM before they got nerfed...
Not sure how you think drones got a boost, except that webbers lost effectiveness. I can buy a smartbomb being helpful there, but not against a frigate. It will just move outside of smartbomb range.
A neut? Yeah, it will help. But if the AF can gen enough cap/use a cap booster, it will just AB out of range and warp off, if it's not already eaten by drones. These counters sound great and all, but in reality the smartbomb only takes out drones, and the neut will most likely kill the frigate.
Useful? Sure. Fit some on your megathron. You want turrets instead? So does minmatar.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 22:40:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Mmm, I've actually had to revise my Rupture fittings to make it handle AFs better, although I'm still worried about things like the Vengeance which can tank a lot for such a small ship ;P
AB'ed vengy with the changes + T2 launchers + jav rockets = holy shit GET IT ORF MEH!
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.01 23:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Denuo Secus
Originally by: The Djego
....manual Piloting will help your Blasters very good(actualy i even would say I didn¦t have any of the Problems i faced while Testing Thorax and Mega)....
I read occasionally about manual piloting here. But I just don't get it yet.
Whats wrong with "Orbit @ x m"? I would understand that "Keep distance" is a bad idea in an AS against a bigger ship but orbiting sounds ok for me so far...?
And what kind of manual maneuvers will bring advantages?
Things got changed in web range preaty mutch. You only take down the MWD of the bigger Target you don¦t web it -> it¦s not the stationary target any more. So you and your Target still moves at a noticalbe speed. Orbit, if you are webbed gets you in a position were you loose Range if the Target moves = less Damage/Tracking Problems. By the fact that you stay more mobile than the Target mutch of the time gets you in the position to fix this(note this don¦t work for the Thorax or the Mega atm) that helps you outdamage a simlar siced Target/doing very good Damage to a bigger one while still avoiding to get hit.
Simply a middle way between keeping Range and avoiding zero Transversal, that makes this kind of manuvering fare better than the Orbit command.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 00:00:00 -
[83]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: The Djego
Well atm Drones and smaller ships got quite a boost, so Modules to counter them effectly(since Webs don¦t any more) are very good options, the ability to fit a Smartbomb or/and! a Heavy Neut is now like the ability to fit extra Nos/ECM before they got nerfed...
Not sure how you think drones got a boost, except that webbers lost effectiveness. I can buy a smartbomb being helpful there, but not against a frigate. It will just move outside of smartbomb range.
A neut? Yeah, it will help. But if the AF can gen enough cap/use a cap booster, it will just AB out of range and warp off, if it's not already eaten by drones. These counters sound great and all, but in reality the smartbomb only takes out drones, and the neut will most likely kill the frigate.
Useful? Sure. Fit some on your megathron. You want turrets instead? So does minmatar.
Had a very good engagement, me vs a "Nano" Vexor in the Thorax. So i was to slow to catch him, taking out the Drones is the logical Option. Now here comes the 60% Web and well no, you are not able to hit a Medium Drone Webbed in you Orbit with a Electon Blaster using T1 Anmo any more. Result, you need the MWD any time you try to kill a Drone with the Turrets(a Webbed drone i like to mention). Doing so, it takes fare longer to take them out, and also requires fare more Cap. Using BS Guns makes it fare worse also. So using a Smartbomb against it is fare more powerfull, since Web + Guns don¦t work any more, simply Drones take to long\ending in a rescoping battle.
Heavy Neut, well it is a good counter against smaller T2 Ships(by this fact I allways have one on the Mega, offline/online depeds on the Fitting but allways ready). Now since Web + Turrets get fare more ineffective vs smaller Targets it becommes fare more powerfull. Keeping your Target in place, stoping it from Scrambling, stoping it form keeping you out of Range, stoping it from Tanking your Drones etc. It simply able to counter most of your Drawbacks, that Web + Turrets can¦t do any more.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Jerid Verges
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 06:06:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Terraform
Edited by: Terraform on 01/08/2008 11:48:15I can now effectively orbit under the guns of most cruiser, bcs and BSs using an AB.
What happens when you encounter an enemy that has weapons for short and long range combat.
I swear, you try and orbit under my guns and you'll find yourself chewing lead for breakfest. I outfit with Medium guns up to 25km range and Small guns that can hit closer then 1000 meters. (Not to mention drones)
Your strategy is flawwed.
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Soporo
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 06:51:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Originally by: Terraform
Edited by: Terraform on 01/08/2008 11:48:15I can now effectively orbit under the guns of most cruiser, bcs and BSs using an AB.
What happens when you encounter an enemy that has weapons for short and long range combat.
I swear, you try and orbit under my guns and you'll find yourself chewing lead for breakfest. I outfit with Medium guns up to 25km range and Small guns that can hit closer then 1000 meters. (Not to mention drones)
Your strategy is flawwed.
Very few people mix/split weapons, much less weapons AND ranges from what I've seen. Maybe we will see more of this.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.08.02 06:59:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2008 07:04:34
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
Yup, SBs will be come more important as will neuts. This means ships with utility high slots will get a boost. Ofcourse minmatar conveniently forget that because they are too busy whining about every ship they have.
Yes, now a minmatar battleship may be able to neut a AF/inty. Wow, what a boost!
And of course those neuts dont fit on the other races battleships... oh wait.
Which is better - 8 gun turrets or 6 gun turrets with 2 utility slots? I would take the 8 gun turrets every single time and fit neuts when I want to, instead of being unable to fit guns there because Im flying a 6 turret ship. Thats what versatility means. Minmatar are not versatile.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo
Can you nano Titans?
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 10:11:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 02/08/2008 10:13:51
Jim, in Lyrias defense, i think (s)he aknowledged the drawback of the split weapon system and meant that with the referred changes the gap in the drawback will be smaller. Not necessarily that the it will be better not to have the choice than having it, but as having utility slots improve, the 'drawback of having them' from the beginning is shrinking.
At least, that is how i read it.
I pass no judgement on wether i agree with it or not .
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.08.02 10:22:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2008 10:23:11
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 02/08/2008 10:13:51
Jim, in Lyrias defense, i think (s)he aknowledged the drawback of the split weapon system and meant that with the referred changes the gap in the drawback will be smaller. Not necessarily that the it will be better not to have the choice than having it, but as having utility slots improve, the 'drawback of having them' from the beginning is shrinking.
At least, that is how i read it.
I pass no judgement on wether i agree with it or not .
Looking at it from that point of view, I guess I agree. The usefulness of split weapon system just got a little bit less completely useless, and I guess that can be seen as a boost from a minmatar point of view.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo
Can you nano Titans?
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 10:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Which is better - 8 gun turrets or 6 gun turrets with 2 utility slots? I would take the 8 gun turrets every single time and fit neuts when I want to,
Hahaha? You kidding me? Seriously, you do realise that the 6 guns somewhat are balanced to another ships 8 guns because they are fewer, right? I mean you cant seriously think that if you slap 8 guns on a 6 gun minmatar ship that it is the same as a 8 gun amarr/gallente ship in same tier. Sorry you fail. Those utility highs are EXTRA and ARE an advantage.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Calgura
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 10:39:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Originally by: Terraform
Your strategy is flawwed.
There will always be people who've set up ships to handle a wide variety of others. I would sometimes fit my Mega with small guns just to take out those annoying drones and small ships - using t2 heavy drones to assist on taking out the big guys. (drone skills are better than my gunnery skills, so actually makes sense).
I must admit though, I do love my Ishkur. Taken out a wide variety of ships in that one, solo or in wolf-packs. Once tanked a Cerberus while I casually collected my friend's dropped loot, and the loot of our enemies, before warping off. Wolf-packs FTW! And they will become great again now with those changes.
|
Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:37:00 -
[91]
yup af's are working, but recons hacs and interdictors are now broken woot
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 11:56:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 02/08/2008 11:57:25
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Which is better - 8 gun turrets or 6 gun turrets with 2 utility slots? I would take the 8 gun turrets every single time and fit neuts when I want to,
Hahaha? You kidding me? Seriously, you do realise that the 6 guns somewhat are balanced to another ships 8 guns because they are fewer, right? I mean you cant seriously think that if you slap 8 guns on a 6 gun minmatar ship that it is the same as a 8 gun amarr/gallente ship in same tier. Sorry you fail. Those utility highs are EXTRA and ARE an advantage.
I would rather have 8 turret slots than 6 turret slots and 2 launcher slots since you gain nothing from using mixed weapon systems and you rarely see people use those slots for missiles. They are used for nos/neuts/anything that fits in a turret slot as well.
So having a 6/2 slot setup is worse than having a 8 slot setup. It makes it less versatile since you cant use 8 guns if you want to. Of course you could also argue that it makes it more versatile since you now can use 2 launchers as well, so I guess it depends on your point of view and experience of the game.
In my opinion, mixed weapon systems are not something to be seen as something positive. It takes longer to train for, damage mods only boost one of them and the systems have different optimal ranges and operation. Those are all disadvantages. I cant come up with a single advantage.
---
Originally by: Roguehalo
Can you nano Titans?
|
Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 12:44:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Red Thunder
yup af's are working, but recons hacs and interdictors are now broken woot
How are they broken? dictors should be able to outrun most things now, atleast anything that isn't a ceptor or AF, which they will promptly shoot down.
You won't see recons going 4,5 km/s anymore, which is good because they were never intended to. As for HACs.. well... Heavy ASSAULT Cruiser. Good gankage, fairly good tankage, lower sig than BCs and BSs, still faster than BCs and Bss.
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2008.08.02 13:01:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Terraform
I'm quite pleased about this change as it actually gives 2-3 AFs the chance to take down BCs or even BS's if they get lucky to run into a bad tanked BS.
they always were able to do so, even i and a mate killed a harbinger few weeks ago in 2 af's.
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Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 13:05:00 -
[95]
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Terraform
I'm quite pleased about this change as it actually gives 2-3 AFs the chance to take down BCs or even BS's if they get lucky to run into a bad tanked BS.
they always were able to do so, even i and a mate killed a harbinger few weeks ago in 2 af's.
Agreed that they were able to, but they just didn't seem worth their cost. The boost has given them a few more options than they had before, and has made them into little killing machines, even more so than before <3
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 13:12:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I would rather have 8 turret slots than 6 turret slots and 2 launcher slots since you gain nothing from using mixed weapon systems and you rarely see people use those slots for missiles. They are used for nos/neuts/anything that fits in a turret slot as well.
So having a 6/2 slot setup is worse than having a 8 slot setup. It makes it less versatile since you cant use 8 guns if you want to. Of course you could also argue that it makes it more versatile since you now can use 2 launchers as well, so I guess it depends on your point of view and experience of the game.
In my opinion, mixed weapon systems are not something to be seen as something positive. It takes longer to train for, damage mods only boost one of them and the systems have different optimal ranges and operation. Those are all disadvantages. I cant come up with a single advantage.
Yes it takes a bit longer to train if youre going for max dps, ie using all weapon slots. Thing is you have the option to use your 6 turrets + SB/neut or whatever for a very small dps loss. Other ships/races that would give up 2 slots for SB and neut for example would lose HUGE amounts of dps. This is what gives the typical minmatar ship the UTILITY. You CAN fit it in numerous ways without losing silly amounts of dps. It IS versitile to have utility high slots.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 13:36:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Hahaha? You kidding me? Seriously, you do realise that the 6 guns somewhat are balanced to another ships 8 guns because they are fewer, right? I mean you cant seriously think that if you slap 8 guns on a 6 gun minmatar ship that it is the same as a 8 gun amarr/gallente ship in same tier. Sorry you fail. Those utility highs are EXTRA and ARE an advantage.
Not when:
(a) You're a armour tanker with more shield HP then armour.
(b) Your DPS with said turrets is utter fail if you're armour tanking and fit only one damage mod, even though the ship has a double bonus.
(c) 1 utility slot is all you need, which Gallente/Amarr ships of the same tier have.
I mean, if large projectile turrets weren't that bad DPS wise, it'd be OK - but currently, if they have the Tempest 6 launcher slots and a sail coolness bonus per level together with a rof bonus for torps it'd do better - then it does now. It's a matter of low DPS and shit EHP (seriously, more shield HP then armour? What is up with that?).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 13:57:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I mean, if large projectile turrets weren't that bad DPS wise, it'd be OK -
Ok what would you suggest that the downside of no cap using, instant damage turrets, with dmg type selection and high tracking should be?
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 14:08:00 -
[99]
Please don't derail my thread from how awesome AFs are, if you want yet ANOTHER minmatar weaponry thread be my guest and make one.
Thank you.
|
Jerid Verges
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 14:11:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 02/08/2008 14:14:16
Originally by: Soporo
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Originally by: Terraform
Edited by: Terraform on 01/08/2008 11:48:15I can now effectively orbit under the guns of most cruiser, bcs and BSs using an AB.
What happens when you encounter an enemy that has weapons for short and long range combat.
I swear, you try and orbit under my guns and you'll find yourself chewing lead for breakfest. I outfit with Medium guns up to 25km range and Small guns that can hit closer then 1000 meters. (Not to mention drones)
Your strategy is flawwed.
Very few people mix/split weapons, much less weapons AND ranges from what I've seen. Maybe we will see more of this.
Really? Wow, I always outfit for multiple targets. I thought that was standard.
But if it seems like a lot of people try this tactic, hey! I might find some good laughs as idiots run right into my blasting range clueless there is no dead zone to my ship.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 14:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I mean, if large projectile turrets weren't that bad DPS wise, it'd be OK -
Ok what would you suggest that the downside of no cap using, instant damage turrets, with dmg type selection and high tracking should be?
Ok, make our BS use torps.
They only have high DPS, full actual (real, no DPS loss and you get to do 100% one damage type, unlike the 'lose 10-20+% dps to do a mix of X and Y instead of Z and Y' damage selection type) damage selection, no tracking issues (hey, our biggest guns only get out-tracked by neutron blasters, but we're got highest tracking, OK... plus, remember Hail, the thing we must use to get max damage (as our faction ammo nerfs damage output by 10%?) - it cuts our tracking by 50%. So close-range, we get out-tracked by anything else or we sacrifice yet more DPS to get tracking, total ****ing utter win isn't it?), and no cap use, tons more DPS, and all that at expense of instant damage.
Did I mention they have no cap use and can fully select damage type, too? Just give us torps already on our BS, and we'll all quit complaining.
Seriously, wtf?
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Terraform
Gallente
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 15:14:00 -
[102]
Keep it to talking about AFs please, If you want to discuss minmatar weaponry, PLEASE make a new thread or talk in one of the 10348294 other threads about it.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 15:16:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Terraform
Keep it to talking about AFs please, If you want to discuss minmatar weaponry, PLEASE make a new thread or talk in one of the 10348294 other threads about it.
Lyria started it!
Anyway, AFs are preety nice now, you've got fighting chances vs a cruiser although I didn't have many issues killing AFs on SISI with a Rupture. Admittedly, it takes a bit of skill.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 15:41:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Yaro
Edited by: Yaro on 30/07/2008 14:15:57
wait till you meet cruise missile raven with precision t2 missiles and neutralizers + drones :) you will die in few seconds, or other missile or drone bazed BC/BS/Hac.
Af are useless anyway
You know those are broken and barely hit the cruisers they where designed to hit?
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:12:00 -
[105]
I cant even get an AF past 150DPS, let alone 100. (EFT, lvl5 skills, cursory, I admit)
Where the heck are you getting all the damage?!
-
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:25:00 -
[106]
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Terraform
I'm quite pleased about this change as it actually gives 2-3 AFs the chance to take down BCs or even BS's if they get lucky to run into a bad tanked BS.
they always were able to do so, even i and a mate killed a harbinger few weeks ago in 2 af's.
I'm willing to bet that Harby wasn't fitting a 90% webber either. If it had, you'd both be dead
Now that we won't have such insane stopping power with a single module AFs are going to be useful again, woot
...
|
Butterless Toast
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:27:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Butterless Toast on 02/08/2008 19:29:18
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
I cant even get an AF past 150DPS, let alone 100. (EFT, lvl5 skills, cursory, I admit)
Where the heck are you getting all the damage?!
[Harpy, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Easily gets you to 240 DPS with most skills at 4. Only way I know of for people to be claiming 300 DPS from an AF is by lying. -shrug-
Quote:
this thread is about serious Internet Spaceship stuff.
|
Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 20:03:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 02/08/2008 20:07:50
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Terraform
Keep it to talking about AFs please, If you want to discuss minmatar weaponry, PLEASE make a new thread or talk in one of the 10348294 other threads about it.
Lyria started it!
Anyway, AFs are preety nice now, you've got fighting chances vs a cruiser although I didn't have many issues killing AFs on SISI with a Rupture. Admittedly, it takes a bit of skill.
The problem is not killing 1 AF, you can do it with the new changes on SISI, but as you said it takes skill.
As i understand this change, it is to bring AS more in line with HACs, to turn AS's into what HACs are for the battleship/battlecruiser class.
As it is right now though, the new changes are made a bit fail. The webb change is fantastic, and i like most of the rest except for the warp scrambler, i have lots of problems with them.
First of all it's a dual-purpose mod, you know the kind CCP decided is game-breaking when they introduced scripts for most damps and td's and even sensor boosters. Warp Scrambler can do both, i'd like to see them do just 1, or ... have different scripts.
The dev who wrote the last blog ... i really don't know what to say; but i think the ideea of scramblers to stop MWD action is more ******ed than the ideea to have i-stabbs reduce mass, increase agility and whatever else they were doing when they first got buffed and started the nano-age. It compares with the efficiency of webbing someone with a 90% webb, and guess where i copied this paragraph from ?
A good bs pilot can either tank, or kill 2 hacs with ab's and scramblers fitted well, a good cruiser pilot has no chance against 2 AF's with a cruiser, unless he fits precisely for that fight, which imo is wrong.
Killing 1 AF might require skill, but taking on 2 AF's in a t1 cruiser is close to a suicide, while at the same time, taking on 2 HACS in a BS is not at all suicide if you know what you are doing.
Originally by: Butterless Toast
Edited by: Butterless Toast on 02/08/2008 19:29:18
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
I cant even get an AF past 150DPS, let alone 100. (EFT, lvl5 skills, cursory, I admit)
Where the heck are you getting all the damage?!
[Harpy, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Easily gets you to 240 DPS with most skills at 4. Only way I know of for people to be claiming 300 DPS from an AF is by lying. -shrug-
Wolf can do 312dps. However, it's better fitted than what you posted.
LE: 350 with Hail S.
---
I smack just for myself.
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oMAKo
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 10:24:00 -
[109]
Any new setups for Ishkur / Enyo with the Nerf in mind?
Kiroshi Group |
Karl Luckner
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:00:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Karl Luckner on 04/08/2008 11:00:52
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 02/08/2008 20:07:50
The problem is not killing 1 AF, you can do it with the new changes on SISI, but as you said it takes skill.
As i understand this change, it is to bring AS more in line with HACs, to turn AS's into what HACs are for the battleship/battlecruiser class.
As it is right now though, the new changes are made a bit fail. The webb change is fantastic, and i like most of the rest except for the warp scrambler, i have lots of problems with them.
First of all it's a dual-purpose mod, you know the kind CCP decided is game-breaking when they introduced scripts for most damps and td's and even sensor boosters. Warp Scrambler can do both, i'd like to see them do just 1, or ... have different scripts.
The dev who wrote the last blog ... i really don't know what to say; but i think the ideea of scramblers to stop MWD action is more ******ed than the ideea to have i-stabbs reduce mass, increase agility and whatever else they were doing when they first got buffed and started the nano-age. It compares with the efficiency of webbing someone with a 90% webb, and guess where i copied this paragraph from ?
A good bs pilot can either tank, or kill 2 hacs with ab's and scramblers fitted well, a good cruiser pilot has no chance against 2 AF's with a cruiser, unless he fits precisely for that fight, which imo is wrong.
Killing 1 AF might require skill, but taking on 2 AF's in a t1 cruiser is close to a suicide, while at the same time, taking on 2 HACS in a BS is not at all suicide if you know what you are doing.
Wrong shipclasses. Heavy Assault Ships<->Battlecruisers and Commandships<->Battleships.
Much better resamblance of your Cruiser<->Assaultship comparison.
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Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:30:00 -
[111]
Enyo
4x Light Neutron Blaster T2
NOS
AB T2
Cap Recharger T2
DCU T2
Small Armor Repairer T2
EANM T2
Micro Auxillary Power Core I
Might get a bit hairy to fitt the EANM, but if that doesn't fit then something similar. Definetly not a solo fit. Also I'm not 100% sure about fitting the armor rep (if you need it, your doomed anyways).
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:45:00 -
[112]
Weeell… The Enyo still has room enough for a single light drone, so there's so many silly things you could do.
Rep-bot gang?
ECM drones for extra annoyance?
TD-300s, just to be paranoid?
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Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 12:02:00 -
[113]
Well just because it has one drone it needs to be something that they won't primary but still be somewhat helpfull (at least a bit).
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oMAKo
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 14:53:00 -
[114]
Edited by: oMAKo on 04/08/2008 14:53:47
I'd take the Cap charger out and throw in a Warp scram.
Kiroshi Group |
Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 14:55:00 -
[115]
Well that could change it to viable solo or something, but I already have a tackler for that. If things go hairy the recharger will help at bit... repper + neutrons blasting away....so there goes the cap.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:18:00 -
[116]
Training assault ships V atm. I always wanted a excuse to train that anyway ;)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
oMAKo
Gallente
Kiroshi Group
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:24:00 -
[117]
Are there any mod's (or skills) that reduce sig radius?
i know nano's reduce mass but i dont think that affects sig?
Kiroshi Group |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:27:00 -
[118]
Quote:
A good bs pilot can either tank, or kill 2 hacs with ab's and scramblers fitted well, a good cruiser pilot has no chance against 2 AF's with a cruiser, unless he fits precisely for that fight, which imo is wrong.
2 good hacs usually wont be tanked by a BS.
And you realise right now people are whining that hacs will easily kill their BS with web changes? With only 50-60% web your main weapons probably wont hit. Neut helps, but one heavy neut cycles every 24 seconds, a cap booster easily fixes that, and with AB you got much more cap.
Maybe with these changes light assault missiles need some changes, but they are also the only missiles i would be really worried about when in an AF.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:31:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/08/2008 15:31:56
Originally by: Furb Killer
2 good hacs usually wont be tanked by a BS.
Not only that, but only things like (some) Tempests (I did it. I used it as a gatecamp ship, though), Hyperions and Maelstorms (which fail solo) active tank.
Originally by: Furb Killer
And you realise right now people are whining that hacs will easily kill their BS with web changes? With only 50-60% web your main weapons probably wont hit. Neut helps, but one heavy neut cycles every 24 seconds, a cap booster easily fixes that, and with AB you got much more cap.
HAC AB fits are unrealistic, but you don't need a AB to speedtank a double-webbed turret BS anyway. Drones will hurt though.
Originally by: Furb Killer
Maybe with these changes light assault missiles need some changes, but they are also the only missiles i would be really worried about when in an AF.
Well, AMLs have the DPS output of a rocket launcher. I mean, yeah, they're *useful* but won't fend off a AF itself - with drone support, some turret hits and AMLs in spare highs you do fend off AFs rather well, unless it's a Vengeance or something.
My SISI Rupture setup uses two best named AMLs now. It does a fair job at dettering AFs/etc, but it cannot take them out without assistance from drones.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:35:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
First of all it's a dual-purpose mod, you know the kind CCP decided is game-breaking when they introduced scripts for most damps and td's and even sensor boosters.
That's wrong on two accounts:
(a) All the dual-purpose mods still work as dual-purpose mods when not fitted with a script. They did get nerfed, yes, but they are still dual-purpose.
(b) Scripts (plus, the flat out nerf even with scripts) broke things like damps and TDs, with damps taking the brunt of the damage and pushed to the margin of near-uselessness. I'm sure even CCP realized that damps are quite broken as EWAR now.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 15:54:00 -
[121]
Has anyone put a light tank on it? My current build has a micro auxillery PC, istab, small rep, and exp hardener in teh lows with a mwd and neuts up top.
Does that sound good?
You guys using faction ammo or t2?
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 06:50:00 -
[122]
I use T2 ammo, why? Because faction ammo is a hellawa lot more jumps away
One thing I am thinking about is the guns. Should I go 15km with rails and orbit with AB, or really really close with blasters and lick the sides. I have good skills for both and they seem to fitt also. Specially the nerf in mind.
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 07:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
One thing I am thinking about is the guns. Should I go 15km with rails and orbit with AB, or really really close with blasters and lick the sides. I have good skills for both and they seem to fitt also. Specially the nerf in mind.
Depending on how much things changes (if at all) from where they are on SiSi, a single-webbed AB-fitted AF will still whizz along at roughly 500m/s. I'd imagine that it's far harder to hit a 40m-sig radius ship going at that speed 1-2km away, than the same ship going at the same speed ten time further out.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 07:56:00 -
[124]
Originally by: oMAKo
Are there any mod's (or skills) that reduce sig radius?
i know nano's reduce mass but i dont think that affects sig?
Halo implants IIRC ... I think they will increase in price on TQ shortly ...
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Mutabae
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:03:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Originally by: Terraform
Edited by: Terraform on 01/08/2008 11:48:15I can now effectively orbit under the guns of most cruiser, bcs and BSs using an AB.
What happens when you encounter an enemy that has weapons for short and long range combat.
I swear, you try and orbit under my guns and you'll find yourself chewing lead for breakfest. I outfit with Medium guns up to 25km range and Small guns that can hit closer then 1000 meters. (Not to mention drones)
Your strategy is flawwed.
Do you triple tank too, or just honor tank? Good God.
Fitting for multiple ranges means you suck at every distance. There is no excelling for you.
Where do you fly, btw? I'd like to come 'test' your uber setup. Preferably, implant some HG snakes as well... this will ensure maximal enjoyment on all sides.
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Po3tank
Amarr
Basgerin Pirate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:20:00 -
[126]
Vengance is king of the AF's
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:27:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Po3tank
Vengance is king of the AF's
No Ishkur.
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Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:28:00 -
[128]
Well I did use at some point different size turrets, but i had different ammo for them. So the optimals we're the same, but i could hit fro mlong range while approaching and then switch to closerange ammo and then I could use all the weapons. I could hit with 4/8 guns from long range and then 4/8 effectively at close range due to the crappy tracking of the biggers ones. So basically...it works but you need to switch ammo and there is no bonus. You might as well do 8/8 damage on long range and then switch to closerange and still do the same damage overall. Just too much hassle.
Stick to to the same, muchos easier.
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Po3tank
Amarr
Basgerin Pirate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:32:00 -
[129]
rocket vengance eats ishkurs drones nom nom nom gulp
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:33:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: oMAKo
Are there any mod's (or skills) that reduce sig radius?
i know nano's reduce mass but i dont think that affects sig?
Halo implants IIRC ... I think they will increase in price on TQ shortly ...
Yes. A full set of Halos will reduce your sig radius by ≈22%. This would give the AFs a radius between 26m (Wolf) and 30m (Ishkur/Hawk).
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Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:35:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Po3tank
rocket vengance eats ishkurs drones nom nom nom gulp
Ishkur lols at rocket vengeances loldps
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Po3tank
Amarr
Basgerin Pirate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:45:00 -
[132]
vengance laughs at ishkurs lol dps becuse vengance has uber tankage and outlast the poor ishkur/ rockets are prity strong if you use faction and have maxed out skills for them
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 08:51:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Po3tank
vengance laughs at ishkurs lol dps becuse vengance has uber tankage and outlast the poor ishkur/ rockets are prity strong if you use faction and have maxed out skills for them
Fittings plx i can fly both vengeance and ishkur but has always preferred ishkur due to the ability to have backup light ecm drones if i cant take the target down. And ive tried to fit the rocket vengeance as well since i have skills for t2 rockets but i didnt get any good dps as a matter of fact i got a higher dps with turrets on a rocket bonused ship. :(
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Po3tank
Amarr
Basgerin Pirate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:03:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Po3tank on 05/08/2008 09:03:57
vengance
highs
4x rocket launchers/faction ammo
mids
1x1mn mwd(if patch goes threw will be a AB)
1xweb/or point
1xcap rechager ll
lows
1xBCU
1xDCU
1xsmall armor rep
1xadaptive nano plating
Edit:dont use EFT
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Johan Price
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:08:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Po3tank
Edited by: Po3tank on 05/08/2008 09:03:57
vengance
highs
4x rocket launchers/faction ammo
mids
1x1mn mwd(if patch goes threw will be a AB)
1xweb/or point
1xcap rechager ll
lows
1xBCU
1xDCU
1xsmall armor rep
1xadaptive nano plating
Edit:dont use EFT
if you're not going to use a point and web, might as well have a better tank.
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
sure, damage might be lowsy (~87), but the tank is insane(~172).
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Po3tank
Amarr
Basgerin Pirate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:09:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Po3tank on 05/08/2008 09:09:24
i put a cap recharger 2 there becuse i dont like heavy neuts or you could put a small cap booster for instant cap if you want
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:10:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 05/08/2008 09:15:10
Originally by: Po3tank
Edited by: Po3tank on 05/08/2008 09:03:57
vengance
highs
4x rocket launchers/faction ammo
mids
1x1mn mwd(if patch goes threw will be a AB)
1xweb/or point
1xcap rechager ll
lows
1xBCU
1xDCU
1xsmall armor rep
1xadaptive nano plating
Edit:dont use EFT
Hmm Rocket vengeance with my skills is around 85 dps and blaster ishkur is around 205 dps.
LOL Vengeance with Dual EANM II and Dual SAR II and small cap booster is stable and repping for 201 dps =D (w/ Aux nano pumps though) Hmm ill stay with Ishkur ill think.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:12:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I mean, if large projectile turrets weren't that bad DPS wise, it'd be OK -
Ok what would you suggest that the downside of no cap using, instant damage turrets, with dmg type selection and high tracking should be?
F*ck sake you are like a broken record,click-broken record,click-broken record,click-broken record,click- use no cap, click-change damage types, click- no cap, no cap...
*Yaaaawn*
---------
If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:20:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 05/08/2008 09:20:51
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I predict that this may also lead to a minor resurgence in smartbombs being fitted to battleships.
I actually have used a smartbomb fitted setup for ~3 years, it's pretty much anti-pod, anti-drone, anti-bubble defence. You can occasionally kill a fragile interceptor if it get's under your guns/drones (yes this already happens on TQ), but let's be honest here, 40 DPS for 26.67 cap/sec vs. T2 resistances on an assault frigate? bwahahahahah....
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:34:00 -
[140]
geez with these changes no one will be flying turret using cruisers in low sec nor brutix or harbingers, :D
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Delichon
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 09:52:00 -
[141]
I was playing with the idea of a good fitting for "the worst AF ever" - the Hawk.
What I am thinking about is like
4 Arby roket launchers
1 Small Nos
1 Small T2 booster
1 EM Res. Amp
1 Scrambler
1 AB
1 BCU
1 DCU
Works as a solid tackler because AB+SB + rockets to kill drones.
------------------------------------------
All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE
A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
Cpt Cosmic
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 10:38:00 -
[142]
ishkur > vengeance
who cares if you can tank 200 dps when every ship can tank yours, and btw hf with relocking drones all the time, with you pathetic dmg you wont even dent the drones shields in time before the pilot calls them in & out, switching drones while the damaged one recharges shields back.
|
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 11:00:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
ishkur > vengeance
who cares if you can tank 200 dps when every ship can tank yours, and btw hf with relocking drones all the time, with you pathetic dmg you wont even dent the drones shields in time before the pilot calls them in & out, switching drones while the damaged one recharges shields back.
This TBH and since i orbit at close range and fit remote reppers i can actually rep my drones and have em tank some.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 11:40:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I mean, if large projectile turrets weren't that bad DPS wise, it'd be OK -
Ok what would you suggest that the downside of no cap using, instant damage turrets, with dmg type selection and high tracking should be?
F*ck sake you are like a broken record,click-broken record,click-broken record,click-broken record,click- use no cap, click-change damage types, click- no cap, no cap...
*Yaaaawn*
No seriously, tell me what the downside should be if not a little less dps. Humor me.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Zarnak Wulf
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 12:00:00 -
[145]
I love my wolf. Two setups I have:
No contribution to the group but gank wolf:
High:
200mm II x 4
rocket launcher II
Med:
MWD II or AB II (2300m/s or 924m/s)
Microbooster
Low:
SAR II
200 rolled tungsten
energized reactive II
energized magnetic II
rigs:
projectile burst
projectile collision
Tough as nails and 192 DPS w/ Barrage or EMP. 240DPS w/ Hail for those silly large targets. Overheating for special occasions makes it really nasty.
Wolf Tackler:
High:
150mm II x 4
Small Nos II
Med:
AB II
Warp Scrambler II
Low:
SAR II
200mm Rolled Tungsten
energized reactive II
energized magnetic II
Rigs:
projectile burst
projectile collision
169 DPS w/ barrage. Tough as nails for tackling.
|
Zantei
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 12:07:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Po3tank
rocket vengance eats ishkurs drones nom nom nom gulp
lmao :D
Made me laugh, all true.
------------------------------------------
|
Drek Grapper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 12:16:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Drek Grapper
F*ck sake you are like a broken record,click-broken record,click-broken record,click-broken record,click- use no cap, click-change damage types, click- no cap, no cap...
*Yaaaawn*
No seriously, tell me what the downside should be if not a little less dps. Humor me.
Ok so if there is a 'downside' there must be an 'upside' right? Playing devils advocate here...Lets look at these then shall we..
Good Falloff - Crappy DPS
No cap usage - small cap on Minni ships
Damage Type selection - need to carry 5 diff types of ammo in hold to take advanatge of this
Instant damage - in falloff damage is crap and it's not instant if we need to be in optimal to do max DPS.
Good Tracking - we mostly use Barrage which has a tracking penalty and we like going fast which f*cks tracking right up.
'Upsides', 'Downsides'...it's all about perspective innit?
---------
If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 12:31:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Ok so if there is a 'downside' there must be an 'upside' right? Playing devils advocate here...Lets look at these then shall we..
Good Falloff - Crappy DPS
No cap usage - small cap on Minni ships
Damage Type selection - need to carry 5 diff types of ammo in hold to take advanatge of this
Instant damage - in falloff damage is crap and it's not instant if we need to be in optimal to do max DPS.
Good Tracking - we mostly use Barrage which has a tracking penalty and we like going fast which f*cks tracking right up.
'Upsides', 'Downsides'...it's all about perspective innit?
Lasers:
Bad fall off - good dps
Extreme cap use - bigger cap on ships (but this isnt enough wich is why amarr ships also need ANOTHER bonus for the cap use). Minmatar ahead.
No dmg type selection - Still need to carry several crystals. Each crystal expensive, cant be sold and holds several thousands of "rounds". Still minmatar ahead.
Not as good tracking - but high optimal and we also use scorch with tracking penalty, minmatar isnt the only race with that problem.
Also add that cap use of guns+tank on amarr ships is less then guns+tank on minmatar ships.
How are minmatar guns so far behind? I dont see it. Looks equal to me.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Demon Theory
OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 13:09:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
I cant even get an AF past 150DPS, let alone 100. (EFT, lvl5 skills, cursory, I admit)
Where the heck are you getting all the damage?!
What the christ are you flying? I can get my Ishkur up to 250 or so. That's without Lv.5 skills.
|
Stab Wounds
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 13:19:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Drek Grapper
Ok so if there is a 'downside' there must be an 'upside' right? Playing devils advocate here...Lets look at these then shall we..
Good Falloff - Crappy DPS
No cap usage - small cap on Minni ships
Damage Type selection - need to carry 5 diff types of ammo in hold to take advanatge of this
Instant damage - in falloff damage is crap and it's not instant if we need to be in optimal to do max DPS.
Good Tracking - we mostly use Barrage which has a tracking penalty and we like going fast which f*cks tracking right up.
'Upsides', 'Downsides'...it's all about perspective innit?
Lasers:
Bad fall off - good dps
Extreme cap use - bigger cap on ships (but this isnt enough wich is why amarr ships also need ANOTHER bonus for the cap use). Minmatar ahead.
No dmg type selection - Still need to carry several crystals. Each crystal expensive, cant be sold and holds several thousands of "rounds". Still minmatar ahead.
Not as good tracking - but high optimal and we also use scorch with tracking penalty, minmatar isnt the only race with that problem.
Also add that cap use of guns+tank on amarr ships is less then guns+tank on minmatar ships.
How are minmatar guns so far behind? I dont see it. Looks equal to me.
I agree. Minmatar have too much of advantage with capless weapons and instant damage.
|
Dr Sheepbringer
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 13:26:00 -
[151]
I get my Enyo up to 135dps and i only have lvl5on hybrids turrets, even my AS skill is only lvl3. No damage mods either.
|
Stab Wounds
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 13:42:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
I love my wolf. Two setups I have:
No contribution to the group but gank wolf:
High:
200mm II x 4
rocket launcher II
Med:
MWD II or AB II (2300m/s or 924m/s)
Microbooster
Low:
SAR II
200 rolled tungsten
energized reactive II
energized magnetic II
rigs:
projectile burst
projectile collision
Tough as nails and 192 DPS w/ Barrage or EMP. 240DPS w/ Hail for those silly large targets. Overheating for special occasions makes it really nasty.
Wolf Tackler:
High:
150mm II x 4
Small Nos II
Med:
AB II
Warp Scrambler II
Low:
SAR II
200mm Rolled Tungsten
energized reactive II
energized magnetic II
Rigs:
projectile burst
projectile collision
169 DPS w/ barrage. Tough as nails for tackling.
these ships will eat ishkurs and vengences alive 
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 13:51:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/08/2008 13:56:25
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/08/2008 13:54:24
Dont say that, nano users are busy whining ishkur will be overpowered.
Both ishkur and vengeance got another mid slot giving them ability to do bit more than just shooting opponent. When ishkur fits a web he is faster and will be able to get within blaster range.
My normal ishkur setup (i do it without rigs, but when you use rigs i also use them):
[Ishkur, blaster]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
With all lvl V, not overloaded it does 255 dps. And i can also take some other drones with me like rep drones in gangs or ECM drones solo.
|
Zantei
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 13:57:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Zantei on 05/08/2008 13:57:21
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/08/2008 13:56:25
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/08/2008 13:54:24
Dont say that, nano users are busy whining ishkur will be overpowered.
Both ishkur and vengeance got another mid slot giving them ability to do bit more than just shooting opponent. When ishkur fits a web he is faster and will be able to get within blaster range.
My normal ishkur setup (i do it without rigs, but when you use rigs i also use them):
[Ishkur, blaster]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
With all lvl V, not overloaded it does 255 dps. And i can also take some other drones with me like rep drones in gangs or ECM drones solo.
Noticed you chose ions, is that due to fitting problems or that they're more balanced than neutrons which have slower tracking?
------------------------------------------
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:04:00 -
[155]
Wont fit using neutrons. There are neutron blaster ishkur setups, you can basicly change for neutron blasters when you drop the nosferatu.
Neutron blaster setup gives 266 dps at lvl 5, also caldari navy AM. But personally i really like that nosferatu. Even with nos you cant perma run your repper, but you can run it much more than without nos. And of course with its short cycle time it is a life saver against ships with neuts.
|
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:06:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Zantei
Edited by: Zantei on 05/08/2008 13:57:21
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/08/2008 13:56:25
Edited by: Furb Killer on 05/08/2008 13:54:24
Dont say that, nano users are busy whining ishkur will be overpowered.
Both ishkur and vengeance got another mid slot giving them ability to do bit more than just shooting opponent. When ishkur fits a web he is faster and will be able to get within blaster range.
My normal ishkur setup (i do it without rigs, but when you use rigs i also use them):
[Ishkur, blaster]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
With all lvl V, not overloaded it does 255 dps. And i can also take some other drones with me like rep drones in gangs or ECM drones solo.
Noticed you chose ions, is that due to fitting problems or that they're more balanced than neutrons which have slower tracking?
Fitting issues i whould say have almost exactly the same fitting atm on my ishkur except i have a Small remote repper instead of small neut for several reasons.
I can rat in belts with my drones and rep them up when they get aggro, i found out that the best way to convince someone in a system that your ratting is to actually rat, do it and ppl will warp in as nice targets for you. And if someone decides to try to pick down my drones i can rep em for sustained survivability.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Zantei
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:07:00 -
[157]
What about using one of the mids for a small electrochemical cap injector?
------------------------------------------
|
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:10:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Zantei
What about using one of the mids for a small electrochemical cap injector?
Thats what im doing but with a small cap booster t2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 14:18:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Wont fit using neutrons. There are neutron blaster ishkur setups, you can basicly change for neutron blasters when you drop the nosferatu.
Neutron blaster setup gives 266 dps at lvl 5, also caldari navy AM. But personally i really like that nosferatu. Even with nos you cant perma run your repper, but you can run it much more than without nos. And of course with its short cycle time it is a life saver against ships with neuts.
I can't check it atm, but I would assume that it's mainly a question of PG, right? If not, though (and I'm just thinking out loud here) there might be some value to dropping the webber (horror! gasp!). It won't be as useful/required as before, you earn back some cap use, and you might have enough space to fit some other nastyness…
Then again, if you come up against another AB-fitted ship, you're screwed, I guess…
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 16:10:00 -
[160]
You lack both powergrid and cpu when fitting neutron blasters.
|
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 16:31:00 -
[161]
[Harpy, Blarpo]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Cap Recharger II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Rocket Launcher II
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
301 DPS according to EFT w/ lvl 5 skills
--
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
|
Gimpb
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 16:53:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Haradgrim
[Harpy, Blarpo]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Cap Recharger II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Rocket Launcher II
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
301 DPS according to EFT w/ lvl 5 skills
Takes a lot of guts to fly something that slow, that small, and that expensive...
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 17:01:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Gimpb
Originally by: Haradgrim
[Harpy, Blarpo]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Cap Recharger II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Rocket Launcher II
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
301 DPS according to EFT w/ lvl 5 skills
Takes a lot of guts to fly something that slow, that small, and that expensive...
QFT. Its an EFT/GTC-warrior fit. A support sniper would kill that ship in seconds.
-----------------------------------------
[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 17:04:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 05/08/2008 17:04:21
Originally by: Kano Sekor
geez with these changes no one will be flying turret using cruisers in low sec nor brutix or harbingers, :D
That's rubbish. I have no significant issues fighting/killing AFs on SISI atm in a Rupture. A Thorax should do fine too. In fact, nearly all the cruisers sans the Maller should do OK, and even the Maller if its counterfit.
You need to think about the fittings of our venerable Garmon to realize why.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 17:16:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Haradgrim
[Harpy, Blarpo]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Cap Recharger II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Rocket Launcher II
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
301 DPS according to EFT w/ lvl 5 skills
(a) EFT warrior setup which is horribly overpriced.
(b) lolactiveshieldtankwith0%EMresist
(c) Wrong rigs (rof + damage yields much better output)
(d) lolcaprecharger
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Delichon
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 17:39:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
No seriously, tell me what the downside should be if not a little less dps. Humor me.
Let's compare to torps. We get instant DPS over them (both have no cap), while they get:
- significantly more DPS
- better ability to hit small targets (particularly after no more 90% webbing!)
- FULLY SELECTABLE damage types (unlike us)
- better faction ammo (want to discuss base damage of EMP again?).
You can argue that point. Raven suffers from the signature effect, Pest - from transversal. Raven get's damage reduction for practically any target (except those using MWD or capitals) Pest only get's minor damage reduction on BS sized targets (while 0 damage against AFs, true)
Having said all that, I do support changing Raven's ROF bonus to kinetic damage bonus in order to bring it in line with logic of the Caldari ships and balance it against other BSes. (Although close range BSes are so lowsec :) )
------------------------------------------
All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE
A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 19:06:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Haradgrim
[Harpy, Blarpo]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
Cap Recharger II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Rocket Launcher II
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
301 DPS according to EFT w/ lvl 5 skills
(a) EFT warrior setup which is horribly overpriced.
(b) lolactiveshieldtankwith0%EMresist
(c) Wrong rigs (rof + damage yields much better output)
(d) lolcaprecharger
Lol, first of all if you read this forum at all you will know I only use EFT to check if something fits.
Second, I was proving that you could easily fit a Harpy for over 300 dps as someone aboved had claimed it was actually impossible. As for the rigs, the ROF ones are bugged in EFT and don't increase your DPS. And I didn't even have to use an officer mod... 
Third, what's wrong with a cap charger, it lets it run forever. The only thing loltastic about this fit is the 0% EM resist which the only way you are getting out of is to dump your booster....
Fourth, read the thread before you post
Besides, there's no chance I'll fly anything besides an Onyx or Cerb once this nerf (boost)hits....
--
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
|
Helsir Qyrdun
The Forsakened Companions
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 19:51:00 -
[168]
What I'm expecting is a hot love affair between EAFs and AFs.
Which is good news because I like my Sentinel. =D
|
Tippia
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 19:59:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Helsir Qyrdun
What I'm expecting is a hot love affair between EAFs and AFs.
Which is good news because I like my Sentinel. =D
Hmm… good point. Everyone's so distracted by the buffs to the lolpewpewpew frigs that the lolyoucan'tpewpewlol ones are overlooked.
What does the patch suggestions do to those ships, if anything?
|
Helsir Qyrdun
The Forsakened Companions
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 20:10:00 -
[170]
Nothing, and flying them like an AF will be lol. But they are mini Combat Recons, and used as such you can pretty much have the same effect as a HAC/Recon gang with a AF/EAF gang, just, y'know, smaller and cheaper.
Work it right and your AFs can drop their Scrams and put them onto the Keres, which gives them room for a web (or maybe a second web) which they can then use on drones.
The options are numerous. I'm just happy that the tracking disruptors of the Sentinel are near perfect support for an AF.
|
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 20:51:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Helsir Qyrdun
What I'm expecting is a hot love affair between EAFs and AFs.
Which is good news because I like my Sentinel. =D
Hmmą good point. Everyone's so distracted by the buffs to the lolpewpewpew frigs that the lolyoucan'tpewpewlol ones are overlooked.
What does the patch suggestions do to those ships, if anything?
I doubt the kitsune, for one, will be effected much by the change....
--
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.05 23:52:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Haradgrim
I doubt the kitsune, for one, will be effected much by the change....
It will. It's faster
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 00:01:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Haradgrim
(a) EFT warrior setup which is horribly overpriced.
Lol, first of all if you read this forum at all you will know I only use EFT to check if something fits.
Second, I was proving that you could easily fit a Harpy for over 300 dps as someone aboved had claimed it was actually impossible. As for the rigs, the ROF ones are bugged in EFT and don't increase your DPS. And I didn't even have to use an officer mod...
Still overpriced for the effect they provide, and quite unnecessary anyway. If you want 300 DPS, you only need T2 magstabs , 4x Neutron blaster IIs, a rof rig and a damage rig
My EFT seems to deal with ROF rigs just fine though. So gallente navy magstabs are not needed for >300 DPS.
Originally by: Haradgrim
Third, what's wrong with a cap charger, it lets it run forever. The only thing loltastic about this fit is the 0% EM resist which the only way you are getting out of is to dump your booster....
Anyway, you can swap the cap recharger for a T2 EM resist mod. I would seriously hate running into anything doing EM damage in that - for instance, a Jaguar or something, would melt far far too soon. Of course, you could swap the damage rig for a EM resist rig, but then you'd drop the 'must do 300 DPS' requirement ;P
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.08.06 00:24:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Karl Luckner
Edited by: Karl Luckner on 04/08/2008 11:00:52
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 02/08/2008 20:07:50
The problem is not killing 1 AF, you can do it with the new changes on SISI, but as you said it takes skill.
As i understand this change, it is to bring AS more in line with HACs, to turn AS's into what HACs are for the battleship/battlecruiser class.
As it is right now though, the new changes are made a bit fail. The webb change is fantastic, and i like most of the rest except for the warp scrambler, i have lots of problems with them.
First of all it's a dual-purpose mod, you know the kind CCP decided is game-breaking when they introduced scripts for most damps and td's and even sensor boosters. Warp Scrambler can do both, i'd like to see them do just 1, or ... have different scripts.
The dev who wrote the last blog ... i really don't know what to say; but i think the ideea of scramblers to stop MWD action is more ******ed than the ideea to have i-stabbs reduce mass, increase agility and whatever else they were doing when they first got buffed and started the nano-age. It compares with the efficiency of webbing someone with a 90% webb, and guess where i copied this paragraph from ?
A good bs pilot can either tank, or kill 2 hacs with ab's and scramblers fitted well, a good cruiser pilot has no chance against 2 AF's with a cruiser, unless he fits precisely for that fight, which imo is wrong.
Killing 1 AF might require skill, but taking on 2 AF's in a t1 cruiser is close to a suicide, while at the same time, taking on 2 HACS in a BS is not at all suicide if you know what you are doing.
Wrong shipclasses. Heavy Assault Ships<->Battlecruisers and Commandships<->Battleships.
Much better resamblance of your Cruiser<->Assaultship comparison.
Nope, sorry. Commands have different roles on the field, check their Role bonus for more hints.
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
A good bs pilot can either tank, or kill 2 hacs with ab's and scramblers fitted well, a good cruiser pilot has no chance against 2 AF's with a cruiser, unless he fits precisely for that fight, which imo is wrong.
2 good hacs usually wont be tanked by a BS.
And you realise right now people are whining that hacs will easily kill their BS with web changes? With only 50-60% web your main weapons probably wont hit. Neut helps, but one heavy neut cycles every 24 seconds, a cap booster easily fixes that, and with AB you got much more cap.
Maybe with these changes light assault missiles need some changes, but they are also the only missiles i would be really worried about when in an AF.
I'm sorry but most hacs are 3 mid slots or 5 with shield tank, who will fit a scrambler on when it has only 11km range - domination warp scrambler, when in fact a WD has 24km range.
And HACs will die just like they used to die against a good bs pilot in the nano-age, with neuts - 1 cycle of 2 heavy neuts will kill the cap of even a Deimos. Ishtar and Sacrilege will be more problematic tbh. First one has ok tank and lots of room for cap charges + drones while the other has incredible room for cap charges and an amazing tank.
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I smack just for myself.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.06 00:32:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 06/08/2008 00:35:03
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Muad' Dib
First of all it's a dual-purpose mod, you know the kind CCP decided is game-breaking when they introduced scripts for most damps and td's and even sensor boosters.
That's wrong on two accounts:
(a) All the dual-purpose mods still work as dual-purpose mods when not fitted with a script. They did get nerfed, yes, but they are still dual-purpose.
(b) Scripts (plus, the flat out nerf even with scripts) broke things like damps and TDs, with damps taking the brunt of the damage and pushed to the margin of near-uselessness. I'm sure even CCP realized that damps are quite broken as EWAR now.
How is it broken ?
Damps used to be sure-thing in pvp, fit 3 damps on hac/recon and your home free, untouchable by a BS unless you were prepared. 100% effectiveness within optimal with decrease both in lock time and lock range. Both TD's and Damps now have that efficiency reduced - ok ... maybe TD's didn'get that much use out of them but still.
Also, about your comment regarding aml's, try them on Caracal. 8k shields, mwd, webb, warp disruptor and 200 dps.
PS: Cap rechargers on pvp fits for af's ... o.0 .
If everybody fits like this, i might take some chances on TQ with Rupture vs 2-3 af's. :)
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I smack just for myself.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.06 00:37:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Also, about your comment regarding aml's, try them on Caracal. 8k shields, mwd, webb, warp disruptor and 200 dps.
PS: Cap rechargers on pvp fits for af's ... o.0 .
If everybody fits like this, i might take some chances on TQ with Rupture vs 2-3 af's. :)
Well, I don't really want to fly a Caracal, and 200 DPS doesn't make me very happy. A Rupture is much better suited for cruiser killing, even at the expense of ranged DPS / ability to kill AFs (which is really fine if you pack two AMLs and T2 lights/ECMs to kill AFs).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:18:00 -
[177]
My Ishkur runs AB, scram, & booster and will eat any cruiser .
Cost much more than a t1 cruiser though
FRIGANK |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.08.06 02:49:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal
My Ishkur runs AB, scram, & booster and will eat any cruiser .
Cost much more than a t1 cruiser though
Riiight
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Delichon
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:54:00 -
[179]
Regarding EAFs - they will be a good addition to the AF gang and they would be utilizing 2 main differences from the Combat Recons - they are faster and their signatures are smaller.
A Keres, dropping 2 SDs with scan res scripts on you, would make locking that AB Enyo capable of 300 DPS a major pain in the rear. And locking Ishkur's drones? C'mon...
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All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE
A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.06 07:29:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Deadeye Devie on 06/08/2008 07:32:06
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Furb Killer
Wont fit using neutrons. There are neutron blaster ishkur setups, you can basicly change for neutron blasters when you drop the nosferatu.
Neutron blaster setup gives 266 dps at lvl 5, also caldari navy AM. But personally i really like that nosferatu. Even with nos you cant perma run your repper, but you can run it much more than without nos. And of course with its short cycle time it is a life saver against ships with neuts.
I can't check it atm, but I would assume that it's mainly a question of PG, right? If not, though (and I'm just thinking out loud here) there might be some value to dropping the webber (horror! gasp!). It won't be as useful/required as before, you earn back some cap use, and you might have enough space to fit some other nastynessą
Then again, if you come up against another AB-fitted ship, you're screwed, I guessą
i would personally drop the web for a tracking disrupter loaded with tracking speed script. with the scram you will be locking out the MWD anyway, and if its got an AB u will still be fast to keep it in range, plus the TD means bigger guns will have a harder time hitting you, let alone your drones.
Add a wolf or 2 into the gang and back it up with a hyena and u got a nasty group...if you want, load in remote rep drones as the 2nd loadout and maybe even get a keres and put the scram on that, freeing up a slot for a cap mod.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Daftex Muleson
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:41:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
I love my wolf. Two setups I have:
No contribution to the group but gank wolf:
High:
200mm II x 4
rocket launcher II
Med:
MWD II or AB II (2300m/s or 924m/s)
Microbooster
Low:
SAR II
200 rolled tungsten
energized reactive II
energized magnetic II
rigs:
projectile burst
projectile collision
Tough as nails and 192 DPS w/ Barrage or EMP. 240DPS w/ Hail for those silly large targets. Overheating for special occasions makes it really nasty.
Wolf Tackler:
High:
150mm II x 4
Small Nos II
Med:
AB II
Warp Scrambler II
Low:
SAR II
200mm Rolled Tungsten
energized reactive II
energized magnetic II
Rigs:
projectile burst
projectile collision
169 DPS w/ barrage. Tough as nails for tackling.
Very nice....question tho as to how you get the second fit to work. I come up with needing an extra 3.75 cpu for the fitting...and I have all the relevant fitting skills at 5 I'm pretty sure. Would like to know what I'm missing cos that is a nice fitting if possible.
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Taco Raptorian
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:45:00 -
[182]
Go frig gang extraordinaire!
Now we just need command frigs to finish the circle.
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.08.06 10:35:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Transmaniacon
Im looking forward to the new assault ships, as they will be good in a small 3-5 man gangs, and have the ability to handle larger targets without getting fried (except for missiles...grumbles...) Nonetheless I think its a good change for them I and expect to see a lot more Jaguars/Wolfs on the field.
/me runs to buy first Cerb since 2006 
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:03:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Taco Raptorian
Go frig gang extraordinaire!
Now we just need command frigs to finish the circle.
Yes or light Recons (not covert ops) that are AF's with cloak.
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Zantei
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:09:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Taco Raptorian
Go frig gang extraordinaire!
Now we just need command frigs to finish the circle.
GREAT IDEA!
CCP, COMMAND FRIGS NOW!! (please)
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2008.08.06 12:07:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Daftex Muleson
Very nice....question tho as to how you get the second fit to work. I come up with needing an extra 3.75 cpu for the fitting...and I have all the relevant fitting skills at 5 I'm pretty sure. Would like to know what I'm missing cos that is a nice fitting if possible.
Switch the warped scrambler from T2 to named. My bad.
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Shai Tair
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Posted - 2008.08.06 19:46:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Shai Tair on 06/08/2008 19:48:35
[Wolf, pewpew]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer I
400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Hail S
Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket
Projectile Burst Aerator I
Projectile Collision Accelerator I
= 6.3k EHP, 297 DPS
Yes you can make it push out more DPS, but this is a rather cheap solo-viable fit, but if you want to go overboard and got a billion ISK to spend:
[Wolf, yarr]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket
Projectile Burst Aerator II
Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
= 371 DPS (427 Overheated), 35/53 reinforced/sustained Defence
For gang-work if you really want to 'bring it' in terms of dps.
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violet james
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Posted - 2008.08.07 11:42:00 -
[188]
I've got an 7500 Effecitve HP Vengeance that reps 103 damage universal, while putting out 90 or so DPS using T2 blasters and tackling gear. Solo against a tier 1 cruiser, I'm pretty confident that it would be a long drawn out fight.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.07 13:39:00 -
[189]
Originally by: violet james
I've got an 7500 Effecitve HP Vengeance that reps 103 damage universal, while putting out 90 or so DPS using T2 blasters and tackling gear. Solo against a tier 1 cruiser, I'm pretty confident that it would be a long drawn out fight.
It would, untill your cap died out.
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.08.07 14:04:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 07/08/2008 14:04:32
My enyo currently gives out 177DPS + and reps with 42 and has a 6m 57s cap with AB. With a sig of 37m. (AB turned off = death, it's cap stable at 47%). Effective HP is 7,389
And I'm nowhere near anything good with my skills.
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Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.07 14:59:00 -
[191]
Although I trained Assault Ships IV on my way HACs, I never bothered to fly them. I didn't even purchase any until the latest dev blog came out, after which I purchased a half-dozen Retris and Vengeances.
Reading this thread had me wondering about the efficacy of an afterburner, dual-repper Veng fit:
2x Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
1MN Afterburner II
2x Cap Recharger II
4x Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
No tackle, obviously. But is entirely cap-stable and can tank over 120 dps with a very low sig. As always, the Veng dps is meh, but I'd be tempted to try it after the patch.
Your thoughts?
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Meridius Dex
--
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.07 15:04:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 07/08/2008 14:04:32
My enyo currently gives out 177DPS + and reps with 42 and has a 6m 57s cap with AB. With a sig of 37m. (AB turned off = death, it's cap stable at 47%). Effective HP is 7,389
And I'm nowhere near anything good with my skills.
Small Neutralizer II kills 54 cap / 6s. :)
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.08.07 15:54:00 -
[193]
Damn. So I need more DPS to melt him under 10sec then :D
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Stab Wounds
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.07 16:29:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 07/08/2008 14:04:32
My enyo currently gives out 177DPS + and reps with 42 and has a 6m 57s cap with AB. With a sig of 37m. (AB turned off = death, it's cap stable at 47%). Effective HP is 7,389
And I'm nowhere near anything good with my skills.
can this ship kill most cruisers?
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