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Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:44:00 - [1] Really. While I dislike the nerf in general, I'm not here to discuss anything besides the newly proposed warp scramblers. Bluntly, they are getting way too much of a buff. To be able to point a ship (with two points especially) and be able to shut its mwd off is just overpowered. Where two slots used to be needed, now you only need one. That is a bit rediculous and imo should be looked at a little harder when looking over the patch before it is deployed. --
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:46:00 - [2] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Really. While I dislike the nerf in general, I'm not here to discuss anything besides the newly proposed warp scramblers. Bluntly, they are getting way too much of a buff. To be able to point a ship (with two points especially) and be able to shut its mwd off is just overpowered. Where two slots used to be needed, now you only need one. That is a bit rediculous and imo should be looked at a little harder when looking over the patch before it is deployed. no, no its not because in order to use it you have to be well inweb range and by that time you should have the mwd off anyways (ether that or the other person is faster than you in which case you would be screwed anyways
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:46:00 - [3] You're looking at it with current parameters (everyone and his dog fitting MWD). If, say, half the pvp ships you tackle don't have a MWD fitted, does this module still sound ridiculous? a standard disruptor might be more usefull overall... ------------------------------------------
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.07 20:59:00 - [4] Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? --
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? you sir, fail and need to stop posting for the good of the forums and possibly humanity itself
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? you sir, fail and need to stop posting for the good of the forums and possibly humanity itself Sarcasm detector off there bud? --
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:11:00 - [8] Edited by: Arvald on 07/08/2008 21:11:57 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? you sir, fail and need to stop posting for the good of the forums and possibly humanity itself Sarcasm detector off there bud? never been one for sarcasm, i prefer to just come out and say it, and also yes i do relize you are being sarcastic and i ment every word of what i just said
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 07/08/2008 21:11:57 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? you sir, fail and need to stop posting for the good of the forums and possibly humanity itself Sarcasm detector off there bud? never been one for sarcasm, i prefer to just come out and say it, and also yes i do relize you are being sarcastic and i ment every word of what i just said The tortoise has spoken. /thread
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:13:00 - [10] Any ship that cares enough to not enter web range would also, ironically, not enter scramble range, effectively eliminating whine. Any ship that wanted to enter web range probably doesn't care if you turn off his MWD. Because, frankly, mwd-turn off has a much less of an impact than today's webs do.
Arvald Caldari Ninjas N Pirates Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.07 21:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 07/08/2008 21:11:57 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? you sir, fail and need to stop posting for the good of the forums and possibly humanity itself Sarcasm detector off there bud? never been one for sarcasm, i prefer to just come out and say it, and also yes i do relize you are being sarcastic and i ment every word of what i just said The tortoise has spoken. /thread ALL HAIL THE ANGRY TURTLE
Erocitnom	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:00:00 - [12] Edited by: Erocitnom on 08/08/2008 00:00:47 i agree with the op the tackle factor of the mod should be removed or their cap/fitting increased. with gate camps rampant all over in 0.0 mwd will still be needed if not still a necessity. if not its going t kill the interceptor/interdictor classes where doing flybys withing web range to drop bubble or web are part of the game.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:30:00 - [13] although with this fitted on an arazu with a rapier buddie, a ship aint gonna go anywhere fast hehe :D fyi i like the change, just pointing out the arazu might be useful again since the damp nerf
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.08 00:43:00 - [14] Yes the scramble who "cut" the MWD is a bit a joke, i really wonder what is the utility. CCP say it's for tackle the "nano" but it's going to be used mainly for cut the MWD of a big ship whith smaller one (like AS, who are going to fit only a AB and a warp scrambler and no web, and a TD in the 3thrd slot) It's CCP powa, or how create new disbalance when balancing :) ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
Bast's Cleric Amarr 24th Imperial Reserves	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:20:00 - [15] Actually it makes sense to me. A Microwarp Drive acts to generate a Small Limited Warp Field around your ship. A Warp Scrambler acts to disrupt any engines that produce a Warp field around your ship. Logic works fine for me. I laugh at all the Mintards that depend on their speed rather than having to learn how to tank whining and *****ing about actually having to learn how to fight rather than run away. -
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:24:00 - [16] What new warp scramblers affect is the balance of smaller and bigger turret ships, which really was out of whack, really. Being able to kill webbed frigates with a BS using turrets only was quite broken. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.08.08 01:51:00 - [17] Edited by: Denuo Secus on 08/08/2008 01:55:08 Originally by: BABARR Edited by: BABARR on 08/08/2008 00:47:57 Edited by: BABARR on 08/08/2008 00:46:18 Yes the scramble who "cut" the MWD is a bit a joke, i really wonder what is the utility. CCP say it's for tackle the "nano" but it's going to be used mainly for cut the MWD of a big ship whith smaller one (like AS, who are going to fit only a AB and a warp scrambler and no web, and a TD in the 3thrd slot) It's CCP powa, or how create new disbalance when balancing :), or how to kill a module like the MWD instead just nerf a bit it.(i think only 500% speed boost and the new basespeed of cruiser/BC/BC it's already enought for the nerf). Or how to create more and more blob (cause now you must have ship whith 12 med slot if you want have defence against TD, ECM, web, damp, and be able to tackle corectly) Meh...it's not just a nerf. It's kinda paradigm shift in tactics. Especially for smaller ships. Not just web + scram + dead. And "mandatory" MWDs... Because of the weaker web (a very good thing imo) there is a demand for another speed breaking / holding down module -> the new scram. But there are ways to avoid it -> the new old AB. Which again is not perfect in every situation, but also MWDs are more attractive now -> less cap penalty. This change will bring much more diversity into the game imo. Which means fun.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 07/08/2008 21:11:57 Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change I didn't know webs pointed you? you sir, fail and need to stop posting for the good of the forums and possibly humanity itself Sarcasm detector off there bud? never been one for sarcasm, i prefer to just come out and say it, and also yes i do relize you are being sarcastic and i ment every word of what i just said The tortoise has spoken. /thread ALL HAIL THE ANGRY TURTLE Pyramid ftw. And ofcourse web doesn't point sigh, but if you are running a mwd you don't go into web range anyways. Web 10km = your speed is dead Scram 9km (next layer) = shuts down your mwd If i need to explain it further I don't know really... ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
Adaline Gray	Posted - 2008.08.08 02:52:00 - [19] I would agree that new 2 point scram is too much. Make an all new module which shuts off the MWD.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Adaline Gray I would agree that new 2 point scram is too much. Make an all new module which shuts off the MWD. To get in scram range you still need to be in webrange... And no arguments like overloading and faction scrammers wont work, because then i will counter with overload/faction web :) but sure have fun flying your mwd fit inside web range ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Shadowsword You're looking at it with current parameters (everyone and his dog fitting MWD). If, say, half the pvp ships you tackle don't have a MWD fitted, does this module still sound ridiculous? a standard disruptor might be more usefull overall... Truthism. I say, down with the MWDs!
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Adaline Gray I would agree that new 2 point scram is too much. Make an all new module which shuts off the MWD. Script it. There's no justification for CCP to make other things scripted because they were 'too powerful', then create a 2 point + effective web module, heh, even if it's short range. Just make pilots choose either noMWD or double point, and I'd be happier with it.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.08 03:50:00 - [23] Have yet to hear a decent complaint
Maijugs Arhueg	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:41:00 - [24] Imho, adapt or die. I foresee setups using both MWD and an AB.
Waxau Unus - Vir Exercitus	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:44:00 - [25] Im against a variety of the new CCP changes. However, i personally like this change. The WORST case scenario, is that of an Arazu, with a 120mil warp scrambler on, having a range of about 25km. That is NOTHING to fear, when a rapier can web you at 40km. Or a curse can suck you dry in one cycle, from 40km. Heck, if you're in scramble range, then you're (as others have said) in web range. Currently, that means death. So the only difference here is 1. They need two mods to lock you down (nano boost, with webs being nerfed) and 2. It boosts Afterburners in terms of popularity, thus creating variation - Which is what Eve is all about.
RayBanJockey	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Maijugs Arhueg I foresee setups using both MWD and an AB. Last time I checked you could not fit both to your ship (even if one was offline). Have they changed that? And the scrambler disabling MWD's, that's a really really big change in how close combat will be conducted and how we'll choose to set our mids up in the future. Big change. I sort of like it I think.
Waxau Unus - Vir Exercitus	Posted - 2008.08.08 07:51:00 - [27] Originally by: RayBanJockey Originally by: Maijugs Arhueg I foresee setups using both MWD and an AB. Last time I checked you could not fit both to your ship (even if one was offline). Have they changed that? And the scrambler disabling MWD's, that's a really really big change in how close combat will be conducted and how we'll choose to set our mids up in the future. Big change. I sort of like it I think. You have always been able to fit both iirc (and ive been playing since 2003, when you could dual-mwd) As for it changing combat....How do you see that? The ranges combat is fought at will stay the same. The tactics will stay the same near enough. The only variation, will be two mods to lock down any speedy sods, rather than..oh wait.....you need two atm anyhow!
RayBanJockey	Posted - 2008.08.08 08:19:00 - [28] Edited by: RayBanJockey on 08/08/2008 08:20:57 Originally by: Waxau As for it changing combat....How do you see that? Well as I see it there's lots of things that change, maybe mostly in 1v1 scenarios (which is my game mostly). People will use AB a lot more now that an MWD _will_ be shut down within scramble range. Massive implications just there - you only need an AB and scrambler, and never a webber - if the other ship has a MWD he's shut down, if he has an AB they are equal (sort of). The possible extra mid slot will open up a LOT of new possibilities, not just to caldari ships or people who like shield tanking - every single ship who used to have a webber has to think twice now and maybe put something more useful in there. This is of course assuming you can't fit both an MWD and AB at once, at least not have them online simultaneously. Actually even if you can have both you will never benefit from it generally speaking, as you can use only one at a time - use MWD and you're shut down, use AB and the other guy is as fast as you anyway.... unless he's flying a minmatar ship?.. (minmatar buff ) All theorycraft of course, I haven't even been on sisi yet ^^ edit Obviously I'm not saying you wont be usign webs anymore, there's lots of times you need to get the target not just down to your own speed but to an actual stand still (camps etc)
Viryana Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.08 08:23:00 - [29] Edited by: Viryana on 08/08/2008 08:25:32 Well if EFT is anything to go by you can have both fitted, but not activated. edit At work, so I can't check in game :(
P'uck	Posted - 2008.08.08 08:25:00 - [30] at least make it scripted ffs. a shitty sensorbooster needs a script these days, but a two point scram that shuts off mwd doesnt? come on....
RayBanJockey	Posted - 2008.08.08 08:27:00 - [31] Originally by: P'uck at least make it scripted ffs. a shitty sensorbooster needs a script these days, but a two point scram that shuts off mwd doesnt? come on.... I know, it's huge, but think about it and you'll see it's not a nerf or buff to anything really, just a huge CHANGE. A welcome one if you ask me.
Birkinz	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:43:00 - [32] Edited by: Birkinz on 08/08/2008 11:45:02 I like the sound of the changes. Sounds to me like a lot of ships will be fixed. I love the way everyone cries when the utility of a ship is slightly reduced and thussly "broken". Fast ships will still be fast. Loads of previously useless small ships have a way to live longer and ships with two mids can now tackle. Another good one from CCP INHO.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.08.08 11:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Marcus Druallis Really. While I dislike the nerf in general, I'm not here to discuss anything besides the newly proposed warp scramblers. Bluntly, they are getting way too much of a buff. To be able to point a ship (with two points especially) and be able to shut its mwd off is just overpowered. Where two slots used to be needed, now you only need one. That is a bit rediculous and imo should be looked at a little harder when looking over the patch before it is deployed. no, no its not because in order to use it you have to be well inweb range and by that time you should have the mwd off anyways (ether that or the other person is faster than you in which case you would be screwed anyways Stupid argument, MWD is not used for just getting into webb range. --- I smack just for myself.
jaybo34 Caldari Mentis Fidelis Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.08.08 17:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Elhina Novae Yeah T2 Scrammer is 9km overpowered for sure. Webs are at 10km, now if you wanna mwd did you go into webrange before? No. Nothing will change actually on an arazu its more like 22km and thats for t2, the better factions would be more like 24 to 26 km. dual points and cancel you microwarp. So yeah nothings changing . DUH
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.08.08 18:07:00 - [35] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 08/08/2008 18:19:11 Originally by: jaybo34 actually on an arazu its more like 22km and thats for t2, the better factions would be more like 24 to 26 km. dual points and cancel you microwarp. So yeah nothings changing . DUH Oh noes, 22km. Current Rapier 90% web = 52km Current "Faction" Rapier 90% web = 78km Current "Faction" Rapier 90% web with a link in gang = 104.3km Current "wtfomgbbq" Rapier 75% web with link in gang = 173.9km Nanos seem to do fine with these "Total stopping" Rapiers currently in game. I'm sure non-nanos will be able to handle a 22km "I stop you when your cycle is over lolol" Arazu.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.08 18:10:00 - [36] as people have said this dosen't really change much TBH Today: Onoes I got webbed, I'm dead. Post-nerf: Onoes I got webbed, I can still escape Onoes I got scrammed, I can still escape Onoes I got webbed+scrammed, I'm probably dead Please explain to me how that's worse than what we have now? - Infectious -
Erocitnom	Posted - 2008.08.08 18:14:00 - [37] if they keep the nerf its no skin off my nose i will just be in my falcon more often as well and alot of the people who used to nano. its slow/no mwd/no dps the nerfmongers will rejoice.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.08.09 00:39:00 - [38] Personally, the question that bothers me is not whether or not an anti-MWD scramble is "over-powered." It's, "Why can a 2 point scramble knock out an MWD and an infinite point scramble, such as a field generator or disruption bubble, cannot?" All the descriptions sound pretty much the same and if the only difference between a disruptor and a scrambler is strength then the only warp prevention tool that shouldn't knock out an MWD is the warp disruptor line of mods. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.08.09 01:03:00 - [39] Lachesis is the new Huginn! How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.09 04:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Waxau Im against a variety of the new CCP changes. However, i personally like this change. The WORST case scenario, is that of an Arazu, with a 120mil warp scrambler on, having a range of about 25km. That is NOTHING to fear, when a rapier can web you at 40km. Or a curse can suck you dry in one cycle, from 40km. Heck, if you're in scramble range, then you're (as others have said) in web range. Currently, that means death. So the only difference here is 1. They need two mods to lock you down (nano boost, with webs being nerfed) and 2. It boosts Afterburners in terms of popularity, thus creating variation - Which is what Eve is all about. Actually a lach w/ a warp scrambler II, recons 4, and a mindlinked claymore in gang has a scramble range of 26km. Unless they changed the bonus of the module on sisi (I didn't check), as that's the range as it is on TQ now. Without the claymore, overloaded, it's 19km. The reason this makes me nervous is that in order to kill something with blasters you must get very close to them. A blasterthron (or blaster BS of any type, except possibly a null rokh) generally must fit a MWD in order to as quickly close the range as possible in order to start putting DPS on target. With scramblers of this range, this may literally be impossible. The changes on sisi with regards to battleships make them accelerate even slower than they do now and they take more time to reach max speed, making anything that shuts down a MWD from outside of blaster range even more effective. While I'm as for just about anything that boosts gallente recons, I'd much rather see sensor damp bonus increased to 7.5% or 10% per level, and the bonus not apply to scramblers if this goes in. As others have noted, a 9km scrambler that also shuts off your MWD may not be broken. 26km though....that makes me wonder. Especially since lachs are now about 40m and very easy to get.
Mortuus Minmatar Fat J Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.09 05:12:00 - [41] How is it different than a Huginn or Rapier webbing you and scrambling at 24km? I must be missing something other than the fact that you could have an AB and still close on an equally affected target. Occassus Republica <3
Luna Cii	Posted - 2008.08.09 05:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Mortuus How is it different than a Huginn or Rapier webbing you and scrambling at 24km? I must be missing something other than the fact that you could have an AB and still close on an equally affected target. Or even worse, a curse killing you cap from 40km away so you can't MWD, shoot or tank.
Rajere No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:02:00 - [43] Quote: Actually a lach w/ a warp scrambler II, recons 4, and a mindlinked claymore in gang has a scramble range of 26km. Unless they changed the bonus of the module on sisi (I didn't check), as that's the range as it is on TQ now. Without the claymore, overloaded, it's 19km. The reason this makes me nervous is that in order to kill something with blasters you must get very close to them. A blasterthron (or blaster BS of any type, except possibly a null rokh) generally must fit a MWD in order to as quickly close the range as possible in order to start putting DPS on target. With scramblers of this range, this may literally be impossible. The changes on sisi with regards to battleships make them accelerate even slower than they do now and they take more time to reach max speed, making anything that shuts down a MWD from outside of blaster range even more effective. While I'm as for just about anything that boosts gallente recons, I'd much rather see sensor damp bonus increased to 7.5% or 10% per level, and the bonus not apply to scramblers if this goes in. As others have noted, a 9km scrambler that also shuts off your MWD may not be broken. 26km though....that makes me wonder. Especially since lachs are now about 40m and very easy to get. start fitting rails? You need to increase the size of your killzone, try 425's with Faction antimatter now that nano***s won't e able to run around outpacing your guns. standard blaster mega mindset of turn on mwd, hit approach, web, launch heavies only worked because once they could web you, you could web them back and your inertia would carry you into your blaster sweet spot and ogres speed didn't matter when you had your target webbed. Also you'll need to start packing warriors/valks to deal with scramming frigs. I think that that they should probably boost afterburners so that tanked BS hit 500-600ms while ABing. make them take longer to build up that higher speed, but just like a BS fitting a web shouldn't be able to instagib a frigate, a BS shouldn't be able to be held down by an ABing frigate indefinitely either. If a BS could do atleast 200m/s ABing after being 60% webbed, then you've got time to reapproach a gate. If there's a gang with that frig, you'll die long before you could make it back, but he shouldn't be able to hold you down til his buddies 6 systems over get around to forming up and heading over to take you out either. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 09/08/2008 18:06:23 Quote: Actually a lach w/ a warp scrambler II, recons 4, and a mindlinked claymore in gang has a scramble range of 26km. Unless they changed the bonus of the module on sisi (I didn't check), as that's the range as it is on TQ now. Without the claymore, overloaded, it's 19km. The reason this makes me nervous is that in order to kill something with blasters you must get very close to them. A blasterthron (or blaster BS of any type, except possibly a null rokh) generally must fit a MWD in order to as quickly close the range as possible in order to start putting DPS on target. With scramblers of this range, this may literally be impossible. The changes on sisi with regards to battleships make them accelerate even slower than they do now and they take more time to reach max speed, making anything that shuts down a MWD from outside of blaster range even more effective. While I'm as for just about anything that boosts gallente recons, I'd much rather see sensor damp bonus increased to 7.5% or 10% per level, and the bonus not apply to scramblers if this goes in. As others have noted, a 9km scrambler that also shuts off your MWD may not be broken. 26km though....that makes me wonder. Especially since lachs are now about 40m and very easy to get. start fitting rails? You need to increase the size of your killzone, try 425's with Faction antimatter now that nano***s won't e able to run around outpacing your guns. standard blaster mega mindset of turn on mwd, hit approach, web, launch heavies only worked because once they could web you, you could web them back and your inertia would carry you into your blaster sweet spot and ogres speed didn't matter when you had your target webbed. Also you'll need to start packing warriors/valks to deal with scramming frigs. I think that that they should probably boost afterburners so that tanked BS hit 500-600ms while ABing. make them take longer to build up that higher speed, but just like a BS fitting a web shouldn't be able to instagib a frigate, a BS shouldn't be able to be held down by an ABing frigate indefinitely either. If a BS could do atleast 200m/s ABing after being 60% webbed, then you've got a chance to reapproach a gate. If there's a gang with that frig, you'll die long before you could make it back, but he shouldn't be able to hold you down til his buddies 6 systems over get around to forming up and heading over to take you out either. I can dig it. Boost AB!
Noobalt Logoffski	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:22:00 - [45] New scram changes are NOT ENOUGH. IMHO, the 24km scram should also turn off the MWD. That would truly make the AB a combat module and the MWD a travel module. MWD and webs ruined EvE combat. I'm so glad to finally see them under the dev knife.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:45:00 - [46] Originally by: Shereza It's, "Why can a 2 point scramble knock out an MWD and an infinite point scramble, such as a field generator or disruption bubble, cannot?" Well thats pretty bloody obvious. It has 9km range. Keyword is balance. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Noobalt Logoffski	Posted - 2008.08.09 18:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Shereza It's, "Why can a 2 point scramble knock out an MWD and an infinite point scramble, such as a field generator or disruption bubble, cannot?" Well thats pretty bloody obvious. It has 9km range. Keyword is balance. Heck! Let's give HICs the power to turn off MWD's as well - both the bubble based disruptor and the single target infinipoint. Let's make the MWD like the WCS. It lets you increase the safety of your travels but is fairly useless in combat. The AB will be even more useful then. Everyone will rejoice. Even the peasants.
dolmant	Posted - 2008.08.10 02:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Kai Lae Originally by: Waxau Im against a variety of the new CCP changes. However, i personally like this change. The WORST case scenario, is that of an Arazu, with a 120mil warp scrambler on, having a range of about 25km. That is NOTHING to fear, when a rapier can web you at 40km. Or a curse can suck you dry in one cycle, from 40km. Heck, if you're in scramble range, then you're (as others have said) in web range. Currently, that means death. So the only difference here is 1. They need two mods to lock you down (nano boost, with webs being nerfed) and 2. It boosts Afterburners in terms of popularity, thus creating variation - Which is what Eve is all about. Actually a lach w/ a warp scrambler II, recons 4, and a mindlinked claymore in gang has a scramble range of 26km. Unless they changed the bonus of the module on sisi (I didn't check), as that's the range as it is on TQ now. Without the claymore, overloaded, it's 19km. The reason this makes me nervous is that in order to kill something with blasters you must get very close to them. A blasterthron (or blaster BS of any type, except possibly a null rokh) generally must fit a MWD in order to as quickly close the range as possible in order to start putting DPS on target. With scramblers of this range, this may literally be impossible. The changes on sisi with regards to battleships make them accelerate even slower than they do now and they take more time to reach max speed, making anything that shuts down a MWD from outside of blaster range even more effective. While I'm as for just about anything that boosts gallente recons, I'd much rather see sensor damp bonus increased to 7.5% or 10% per level, and the bonus not apply to scramblers if this goes in. As others have noted, a 9km scrambler that also shuts off your MWD may not be broken. 26km though....that makes me wonder. Especially since lachs are now about 40m and very easy to get. Arrgh - how is an arazu or lach going to kill you? how is that different to a rapier webbing you? i dont know. You arnt supposed to be able to kill everything with 1 setup. and 2 ships can shut you mwd off if they have faction scrams. Not only that, but if you fit an ab your immune to this overpowered scram module, whereas you cant counter a web (only by running your mwd or ab, which brings you up to your base speed or a little higher). also, if they shut off your mwd, they must be within 10km, and thus inside your range as a blasterboat.
Steyr Daghan thx for all the fish Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:31:00 - [49] Originally by: Marcus Druallis To be able to point a ship (with two points especially) and be able to shut its mwd off is just overpowered. Congratulations. You managed to prove your complete lack of understanding of how things actually work in pvp, as well as your lack of experience (except perhaps EFT experience) in one single sentense.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.08.12 04:13:00 - [50] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Shereza It's, "Why can a 2 point scramble knock out an MWD and an infinite point scramble, such as a field generator or disruption bubble, cannot?" Well thats pretty bloody obvious. It has 9km range. Keyword is balance. I can see that with regards to T2 large bubbles but against an HIC field generators. Field generators take 80mw grid compared to 1mw for T2 scramblers, 50tf CPU compared to 33, takes almost 5x as much cap/sec in bubbled mode along with a speed nerf that lets a 10mn MWD give a speed boost under 50%, and takes over 9x as much cap with the focusing script. Personally, between higher fitting requirements and higher cap cost with a serious speed penalty or even higher cap cost for no penalty and, up to, a 30km range having HIC field generators also inhibit, if not outright cancel, MWDs would be relatively balanced. Of course if people are whining that scramblers should use scripts to kill MWDs I suppose including a second script for the field generators would work. I just have a problem when, from a perspective based on item descriptions, in-game mechanics, and in-character reactions changes are implemented that make absolutely no sense, but then I've never understood why microwarpdrives didn't get knocked out by any warp-disrption type device until (at least on Singularity) now. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Lost Vagus	Posted - 2008.08.12 08:53:00 - [51] Edited by: Lost Vagus on 12/08/2008 08:54:47 Originally by: Marcus Druallis I didn't know webs pointed you? in soviet Russia they do,
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.08.12 11:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Kai Lae The reason this makes me nervous is that in order to kill something with blasters you must get very close to them. A blasterthron (or blaster BS of any type, except possibly a null rokh) generally must fit a MWD in order to as quickly close the range as possible in order to start putting DPS on target. With scramblers of this range, this may literally be impossible. While this is true i believe it's not exactly a huge problem. It's no difference to todays Huginn. A Blasterthron is just not the ship to engage those recons. What bothers me more is that each dedicated blasterboat has a MWD bonus. Thus it's waste of bonus if you fit AB to it. So indeed the nerf to MWDs is an indirect nerf to every blasterboat. That's a bit lame because those blasterboats didn't need to be nerfed in any way. Maybe we'll see a change here. I vote for blasterboats MWD bonus to be changed to "immune to shutdown by scrambler" or something like that. ;) ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo

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