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Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 10/08/2008 11:45:52 Looks Modelled after the Star Destroyer from star wars, this ship was destined to look absolutely badass. Speed Along with the Cyclone it shares the top spot for highest BC (base) speed at 165m/sec. Tank and Gank It can be built with an impressive tank, but this ship really shines with a full gank setup. I'm not going to throw EFT numbers around, but damage bonus+ROF bonus = GANKAGE. but it can do more than just pump out dps, with an t2 AC setup, and those (comedy) fall off rigs, throw in a tracking comp and without losing a single point of DPS from the normal gank setup you have a ship that can hit incredibly hard and very accurately into 24k. With utility high slots, you can fit nos/nuet or HAMS/HMS. I think the Power grid and CPU are just right, allowing flexibility. in short , i love the Hurricane. Post some incredible, unrealistic crazy EFT fittings for the Hurricane. PS:no idea why i wrote this.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.10 11:56:00 - [2] My tempest would kill it... wooot my tempest is the best ship in the game! _________________________________________________
Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:00:00 - [3] COST:EFFECTIVENESS
Ihmen Shank	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian [Post some incredible, unrealistic crazy EFT fittings for the Hurricane. [Hurricane, YAY \o/] Tobias' Modified Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II Cormack's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Cormack's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Gistum A-Type 10MN MicroWarpdrive Domination Warp Disruptor Domination Stasis Webifier Ammatar Navy Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 Domination 220mm Autocannon, Domination EMP M Domination 220mm Autocannon, Domination EMP M Domination 220mm Autocannon, Domination EMP M Domination 220mm Autocannon, Domination EMP M Domination 220mm Autocannon, Domination EMP M Domination 220mm Autocannon, Domination EMP M Amarr Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu Auxiliary Nano Pump II Auxiliary Nano Pump II Anti-Explosive Pump II 'Augmented' Hammerhead x3 I threw a mish-mash of really expensive mods together! That means I win yay! 509dps, 655dps tank, runs forever as long as you have cap boosters.
0rch1d	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:10:00 - [5] "Best ship in the game"? Its bonuses are for projectile weapons, and currently projectiles are at best problematic unless used for PvE. Best in class perhaps? Not necessarily when you've got the Drake in the same category. Excellent ship, the 'Cane, but let's not take it too far.
Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:13:00 - [6] Originally by: 0rch1d ...Drake ... wat
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian COST:EFFECTIVENESS If you start claiming: best ship in the game, you can expect people to pick a more expensive ship and point out that it is better. Especially if you ask for a EFT madness setup. _________________________________________________
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.10 12:58:00 - [8] HAMDrake eats Hurricanes for breakfast - Infectious -
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:01:00 - [9] I think the Hurricane is the worst tier 2 BC. It doesn't tank very well and it doesn't gank very well either. Its mobility advantage is fairly inconsequential. It's the Tempest of battlecruisers.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Gimpb on 10/08/2008 13:13:32 Originally by: 0rch1d "Best ship in the game"? Its bonuses are for projectile weapons, and currently projectiles are at best problematic unless used for PvE. Best in class perhaps? Not necessarily when you've got the Drake in the same category. Excellent ship, the 'Cane, but let's not take it too far. Projectile weapons work just fine when fit on a cane. Do they have issues elsewhere? Perhaps, but not here. You see, for all its tank and midslots, the drake has this problem... it's a flying target. When you see a drake, you know what you're dealing with, there are no surprises. It's not going to chase you down, it's not going to pull some clever trick, it's not going to neut you, it's not going to rep its gang. It's going to sit there and shoot missiles for mediocre damage... maybe tackle something that gets close, that's it. If you're in a position to kill it, you kill it; if not, you leave it alone. With the hurricane, you don't know... it might be fast enough to catch you, it might be tanked, it might have artillery, it might be fitting ACs, it might neut you. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the drake isn't useful, I'm just saying it's highly predictable and in a game where you more or less have to chose to fight, predictability is a notable disadvantage. I fully understand that you can get some reasonably good dps out of a drake with HAMs but in the end it's still just a missle shooting brick. It doesn't add anything interesting to a gang, it's just filler.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:16:00 - [11] Six midslots for ewar and you say that the Drake is predictable?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Gimpb You see, for all its tank and midslots, the drake has this problem... it's a flying target. When you see a drake, you know what you're dealing with, there are no surprises. It's not going to chase you down, it's not going to pull some clever trick Drake is much more versatile than you think. Sounds to me like you've only ever come across the Caldari Militia noobs who fit their Drakes with L4 mission setups in PvP - Infectious -
Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Gimpb You see, for all its tank and midslots, the drake has this problem... it's a flying target. When you see a drake, you know what you're dealing with, there are no surprises. It's not going to chase you down, it's not going to pull some clever trick Every Ship is much more versatile than you think. Sounds to me like you've only ever come across the Caldari Militia noobs who fit their ships with L4 mission setups in PvP Fixed that for ya. why did everyone take this thread so srsly ? jeez
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.10 13:57:00 - [14] You need to fit the Hurricane with lasers to make it really Star Destroyer'ish and drop the missile launchers for tractor beams. Shield tank of course. No AB or speed mods. Then and only then the Hurricane is the best ship available in EVE. -------- Ideas for: Mining
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:02:00 - [15] Harby > Drake > Cane > Myrm But whatever you say. Tempest is easily the best ship in the game because of the pirate masts. Maybe the naglfar.... it's F R E A oh forget it. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:06:00 - [16] (a) The Hurricane has shit for tank. Live with it, but you can't make it tank well, except for lolpassive tanks. Plated setups have low EHP, and dual-rep setups tank bad (and given the SISI changes and kiting being extremely difficult now, dual-rep setups have received a direct nerf). You can get a competitive buffertank (somewhere along the lines of a Drake) if you invest some 600-700M in slave implants, however + a few trimarks (which completely and utterly kill its speed). (b) While the Hurricane is marginally faster then other BCs, it doesn't account for very much at all. It is admittedly more agile (being just as agile as the Drake) then Harbringer/Myrmidon, which is a nice extra. Plating it tends to kill off speed/etc advantages. (c) The Hurricane ganks a lot. While I generally admit Gypsio has good points, claiming the Hurricane lacks gank is silly. The only other BC which can exceed the Hurricane's gank is a gank-fit Brutix, and we're only talking about 1-2% here (out of a Brutix which has shit for EHP anyway). The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well. It's definitely not the Tempest of the BCs - a Tempest is guaranteed to die to a Mega 1km off, or a... well, anything 1km off. Now, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the Harbringer/Brutix/Myrmidon pilot with a Hurricane 1km off me. On the other side, nearly all these ships (bar the Brutix) do better at range then the Hurricane. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Abrazzar You need to fit the Hurricane with lasers to make it really Star Destroyer'ish and drop the missile launchers for tractor beams. Shield tank of course. No AB or speed mods. Then and only then the Hurricane is the best ship available in EVE. this guy gets it
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:23:00 - [18] I like the op love the Hurricane I wouldn't say its my favorite ship in Eve, thats reserved for the hurricane's younger brother the cyclone (most underrated ship in Eve IMO). But it is an incredibly flexible ship. I've flown: -solo in hurricanes -in gangs in hurricanes - in big fleets - in Shield extended gank hurricanes - in plated gank hurricanes - in dual medium armor rep canes - in canes with neutrilizers - in canes with remote reps - in nano canes - in passive mission running canes - in 720mm ratting canes (against Angels and Sanshas) - in 650mm pvp fit canes (with domi carbonized lead it's pretty effective) - in Canes with mids full of sensors damps (before nerf) - in Canes with mids full of tracking disruptors It's a cheap ship and it's fun to fly.
Unworldly1 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:24:00 - [19] Originally by: AstroPhobic Harby > Drake > Cane > Myrm But whatever you say. Tempest is easily the best ship in the game because of the pirate masts. Maybe the naglfar.... it's F R E A oh forget it. I woulda thought these ships would be the best cos their guns don't use cap? :S Now i'm confused... Mast > capless? * * * Originally by: Jagdgewehr A stiff fart could do more damage than a Damnation
Kyusoath Orillian Viziam	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:26:00 - [20] Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 10/08/2008 14:29:29 Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 10/08/2008 14:28:55 [STARDESTLOLLER] Heat Sink II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System True Sansha Reactor Control Unit Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Computer II Small Shield Booster II 5a Prototype Shield Support I Compulsive Multispectral ECM I True Sansha Heavy Pulse Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M True Sansha Heavy Pulse Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M True Sansha Heavy Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M True Sansha Heavy Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M True Sansha Medium Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Gamma S True Sansha Medium Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Gamma S Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher,Guristas Bane Torpedo <!!! small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit I Ancillary Current Router I Energy Burst Aerator I Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,1 Drones_Active=Warrior II,1 Drones_Active=Hornet II,1 Drones_Active=Acolyte II,2 this setup wins eve.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:28:00 - [21] Originally by: AstroPhobic Harby > Drake > Cane > Myrm But whatever you say. Tempest is easily the best ship in the game because of the pirate masts. Maybe the naglfar.... it's F R E A oh forget it. Don't fret. Minmatar still has a really awesome frigate line.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Don't fret. Minmatar still has a really awesome frigate line. My claw disagrees with you. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 14:40:48 We always have the Rifter Edit: please don't say "Jaguar". The Jaguar is admittedly good, but it doesn't really outshine the Ishkur (or Harpy for that matter - did you know the Harpy was actually a damn good ship if you have AWU V? Suprised the hell out of me.), and its got fairly low DPS. Wolf is nice for ganking other AFs... but it handles like a brick, or it has no EHP, you choose. Our interceptors suck except for the pure tackle role (Stilleto). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:39:00 - [24] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Don't fret. Minmatar still has a really awesome frigate line. My claw disagrees with you. Fly a stiletto...
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.10 14:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Don't fret. Minmatar still has a really awesome frigate line. My claw disagrees with you. Fly a stiletto... My stiletto disagrees with you too. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian setup this setup wins eve. I would say a standard Imperial version would look something like this: [STARDESTLOLLER] High Slots: 6x Heavy Pulse Laser II (Conflagration) 2x Tractor Beam I Medium Slots: 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 1x Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Low Slots: 3x Heat Sink II 1x Damage Control II 2x Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Flux I Rig Slots: 1x Capacitor Control Circuit II 1x Core Defense Field Purger II Drones: 5x Warrior II 1x Small Armor Maintenance Bot II This would fit the basic specifications of a Star Destroyer, high firepower with acceptable durability. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:12:00 - [27] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Don't fret. Minmatar still has a really awesome frigate line. My claw disagrees with you. Fly a stiletto... My stiletto disagrees with you too. better than a Raptor - Infectious -
marigoyla	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:26:00 - [28] Hurricane is the best ship in eve. The best looking ship, HANDS down. This is enough reason for me to fly it. Apart from that, its not anything special, not the best for sure, not the worst either. We all got speed tickets. Now we must comply with the law (the physic's law)
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:35:00 - [29] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Don't fret. Minmatar still has a really awesome frigate line. My claw disagrees with you. Fly a stiletto... My stiletto disagrees with you too. I dunno, my alt loves his stiletto. 30km scram, sensor booster, mwd, cap injector. Tell him to point something from safety and he just goes forever. Is nice =) Stiletto isnt the ultimate combat ship, but i think is amazing for tackles.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Rawr Cristina better than a Raptor Crow > Claw + Stiletto tbh. Amarr inties > Gall > Crow (el oh el) > Minmatar __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:37:00 - [31] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 10/08/2008 15:36:50 Originally by: Trojanman190 Stiletto isnt the ultimate combat ship, but i think is amazing for tackles. Ehh. It's not speedy enough to be "amazing" at tackles. 4 mids is nice, but I'd rather have a 2 (or 3) mid tackler with more speed. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 15:53:00 - [32] I fit my stiletto with an MSE for extra survivability, love that midslot layout, after patch we shall see if I need to change my setup...
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.10 16:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 14:40:48 We always have the Rifter Edit: please don't say "Jaguar". The Jaguar is admittedly good, but it doesn't really outshine the Ishkur (or Harpy for that matter - did you know the Harpy was actually a damn good ship if you have AWU V? Suprised the hell out of me.), and its got fairly low DPS. Wolf is nice for ganking other AFs... but it handles like a brick, or it has no EHP, you choose. Our interceptors suck except for the pure tackle role (Stilleto). jaguar is far better than the ishkur, just kill ishkur drones
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.10 16:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Stab Wounds jaguar is far better than the ishkur, just kill ishkur drones ITT: Med student tells hospital chief how to care for patients. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.10 16:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Cpt Branko The only other BC which can exceed the Hurricane's gank is a gank-fit Brutix, and we're only talking about 1-2% here So I figure the most EHP/Gank cane you can get is the 6x 425/2x HAM/3x Gyro shield buffered hurricane. I'm going to rig these tests a bit because the Hurricane doesn't have full tackle but it's a requirement for the other ships. Ship \| Hitpoints \| DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix \| 47763 \| 782 Harbinger \| 52445 \| 760 Hurricane \| 53873 \| 737 Drake \| 81827 \| 618 Quote: The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well. I thought that was the Myrm/Brutix's role. In either case, I'd rather use a plate Harby for this since it's DPS at 1km is higher than a cane (if you include tracking). -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Car Wars Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.10 16:46:00 - [36] Edited by: Car Wars on 10/08/2008 16:47:06 Edited by: Car Wars on 10/08/2008 16:46:41 Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Looks Modelled after the Star Destroyer from star wars, this ship was destined to look absolutely badass. [/quote This... basically proves that the OP is right
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.10 17:47:00 - [37] Hurricanes are great for ganking hulks. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Dai'nin Roi'nin Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Gypsio III Six midslots for ewar and you say that the Drake is predictable? And x lo slots for the armor tank, right?
Helsir Qyrdun The Forsakened Companions Pure.	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Dai'nin Roi'nin Originally by: Gypsio III Six midslots for ewar and you say that the Drake is predictable? And x lo slots for the armor tank, right? [Drake, Mk3, Basic] Damage Control I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Sensor Booster I Tracking Disruptor I Tracking Disruptor I Tracking Disruptor I Tracking Disruptor I Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] ^-BRUCE Fleet staple, worked surprisingly well (y'know, when BRUCE Fleets worked. =\ ) Yes. Upgrade as you see fit.
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.10 18:52:00 - [40] In my Gank fit hurricane the only other BC's i wonder about attacking is the myrm and brutix. Mainly cause of all their drones. btw, i get 580dps with my cane and have a falloff of 18km. EHP is 54K
Deschenus Maximus Amarr The Grim Reapers	Posted - 2008.08.10 22:29:00 - [41] The 'Cane is a fantastic ship. Certainly tied for best BC with the Drake in my book. The Grim Reapers [GREAP] open for business
Rajere No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.10 22:38:00 - [42] Myrmidon sure, but brutix? why? Either he's pure gank fit DCII / RCII / 3x Mag Stabs, in which case he has no tank and runs out of HP faster than you do, or he's some kind of plated or dual armor repping whatever that does lol DPS and he runs of HP faster than you. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.10 23:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Liang Nuren So I figure the most EHP/Gank cane you can get is the 6x 425/2x HAM/3x Gyro shield buffered hurricane. I'm going to rig these tests a bit because the Hurricane doesn't have full tackle but it's a requirement for the other ships. No need to rig the tests, just use a 1600MM RT + EANM II + DC II, full tackle with dual webs (prerequisite to use Hail anyway). Forces you to use 5x425/1x220/2xHAM setup. Your numbers are wrong, anyway. For more ships. Ship \| Hitpoints \| DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix* \| 47763 (32517 w/out trimarks, 37519 w trimarks) \| 782 (870 DPS) Harbinger** \| 52445 (55017 w trmarks, 43565 w/out trimarks) \| 760 (768 DPS) Hurricane \| 53873 (58721 w trimarks, 45237 w/out trimarks) \| 737 (807 DPS) Drake \| 81827 (83213 with CRDFE, 61809 w/out CRDFE) \| 618 (641 DPS) Brutix does much better with a 2xmagstab setup, so you get to fit RCU/2x magstab/DC II/800mm plate, or, with a mix of neutrons/ions so it doesn't have to fit the RCU anyway * HPL IIs, conflag, MWD, etc. Forced to fit a 800mm RT plate. Used blank all L5 char and T2 ammo, generally maximum gank setups which you can reasonably fit. Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well. I thought that was the Myrm/Brutix's role. In either case, I'd rather use a plate Harby for this since it's DPS at 1km is higher than a cane (if you include tracking). What changed? I mean, seriously now. Did you kite a Harbringer before? No, lol, you'd die horribly. Drake? Again, lol, say hello to horrible death. Myrmidon? Yes, maybe, in a dual-rep setup. That part changed. Brutix? Yes, but you didn't exactly need to kite him very much, it's a Tier 1 BC and doesn't have the fittings to compete up close. The Hurricane was a valid choice before and it's a valid choice now. Does the Harbringer outdo it in general because of its performance at range? Yes, it does. Does it outdo it up close? No. Not against generic targets, and sure as hell won't outdo it up close if they meet up in practice. If anything, the Drake will kill them both. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.10 23:22:00 - [44] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 23:22:30 Originally by: Stab Wounds jaguar is far better than the ishkur, just kill ishkur drones Ahah... Enjoy the slow killing of T2 lights (with a spare wave) with small (hence, awesomely tracking) blasters pounding you and you struggling to hit them with your tracking-unbonused ACs under a 60% web If you want to kill a Ishkur, you try killing the Ishkur, not letting him wear your effective HP down (which is your advantage) while dealing with two bloody packs of T2 lights and three decently hitting blasters. The Ishkur wins hands down when you're trying to kill a cruiser post-SISI changes anyway. Edit: I forgot you're just a troll, however. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.10 23:24:00 - [45] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 10/08/2008 23:27:59 Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 10/08/2008 11:45:52 Looks Modelled after the Star Destroyer from star wars, this ship was destined to look absolutely badass. Speed Along with the Cyclone it shares the top spot for highest BC (base) speed at 165m/sec. Tank and Gank It can be built with an impressive tank, but this ship really shines with a full gank setup. I'm not going to throw EFT numbers around, but damage bonus+ROF bonus = GANKAGE. but it can do more than just pump out dps, with an t2 AC setup, and those (comedy) fall off rigs, throw in a tracking comp and without losing a single point of DPS from the normal gank setup you have a ship that can hit incredibly hard and very accurately into 24k. With utility high slots, you can fit nos/nuet or HAMS/HMS. I think the Power grid and CPU are just right, allowing flexibility. in short , i love the Hurricane. Post some incredible, unrealistic crazy EFT fittings for the Hurricane. PS:no idea why i wrote this. Harbinger can gank better and the Drake although it ganks less, it has more buffer HP. LE: Saw Branko's numbers. I still think Harbinger can gank better overall. Easier to hold on target in Harbinger with it's 6-7km optimal on conflag m than with Hurricane with it's crap 1000m optimal and tracking problems + cap-nerfing hail. Also, pure damage is not everything, i'd rather have neuts in those 2 highs on the Hurricane than HAMS.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.10 23:42:00 - [46] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/08/2008 23:42:25 Originally by: Setana Manoro LE: Saw Branko's numbers. I still think Harbinger can gank better overall. Easier to hold on target in Harbinger with it's 6-7km optimal on conflag m than with Hurricane with it's crap 1000m optimal and tracking problems + cap-nerfing hail. That part is admittedly true. For most ranges the Harbringer does the job of ganking better (in fact, any ranges beyond 1-2km). The Hurricane does slightly outshine it point blank, and it does have a overall more attractive damage type (Hail) which gives it a advantage against T1 armour tanks when up close (which is why you'd never ever want a Hurricane to get close to you when flying the Harbringer). Both are essentially valid choices, and, while you could generally claim that the Harbringer is a somewhat better ship for most things, or that the Hurricane doesn't have a big enough advantage point blank (both are, in my view, true), the Hurricane isn't exactly obsoleted by the Harbringer, it's still viable. Originally by: Setana Manoro Also, pure damage is not everything, i'd rather have neuts in those 2 highs on the Hurricane than HAMS. I have to disagree when we're talking about BC hulls. You've got enough gank to punch through the active tank of anything short of a battleship in a PvP fitting (you could punch through a active-tanking Tempest, not so quickly though). More gank is what you always need in a gank ship. On the other hand, you're not flying a BS. Your neuts give you no special ability (which 25km neuts with the power to insta-dry a HAC give a battleship), aside from assisting in frig defence (HAMs also help vs close-range frigs though). I just think that losing that bit of DPS is too big of a sacrifice to fit neuts which are only useful in a small set of situations. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
nakKEDK Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.08.11 00:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Liang Nuren Ship \| Hitpoints \| DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix \| 47763 \| 782 Harbinger \| 52445 \| 760 Hurricane \| 53873 \| 737 Drake \| 81827 \| 618 and now for the range. brutix sux :/ imma train amarr soon :P k
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.11 01:37:00 - [48] I'm going to take a slighty different angle on this: If I were to only ever fly one ship type with my main what would it be? Obviously this depends on the style of warfare you like most and for me that is small to medium sized gangs. Given the strength of remote armor repping and the difficulty of remote shield repping you can rule out all gank/tank shield tankers. I have a covert alt which makes the options far greater. - the ship has to look good (sorry Domi) - the ship has contribute well to gang setups - the ship has to either be versitile or so good at doing what is does it is irresistable - the ship has to be able to deal decent damage because real combat is generally about killing things quick drum roll "And the winner is . . ." 1. The Hurricane Seriously cool looks, fantastic versatility and good looks. Great gank/range combo. 2. The Tempest The Tempest looks fantastic - it looks Yarrr mighty! It is extremely versitile with the option of shield tanking for max gank, two utility highs for neuts/RR's, a fifth mid slot for ECCM or more tackle to help cover the gangs needs. If the Tempest did more damage, both for its class and compared to BC's, I would rate it n.1 because of the power of two remote reps in a RR gang. The likelyhood of a minor Tempest/large AC buff in the future is affecting this choice. 3. The Megathron crowd goes wild The Mega is a chevy on steriods, it gleams, its bling bling, its phat, and its hot! Versitilty be damned the Megha does Mega damage and mega damage is where it is at! Did I mention it gets a tracking bonus and that BS's track like shit? It is expensive to fit but mmmmmmmmm - Mega! Honourable mentions: Vagabond - Zoom, Zzoooomm, Zzzzzooooommmmmmm! Zealot - Pew, Pew, Pew, Zoomm, Zzoom, Pew, Pew, Pew. Rupture - cheap rusty screwdiver from rupturing peoples behinds. Plus it can Zzooomm! Typhoon - serious damage dealing combined with decent versitility. Not quite sexy enough to make the A list but I might change my mind on that. Abaddon & Armageddon - Great heavy hitters but too short on versatily to make the A list.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.11 05:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Cpt Branko No need to rig the tests, just use a 1600MM RT + EANM II + DC II, full tackle with dual webs (prerequisite to use Hail anyway). Forces you to use 5x425/1x220/2xHAM setup. Your numbers are wrong, anyway. For more ships. Well, my numbers were right for the 100% standard PVP fits that I used... but sure. Anyway dude, tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I get 807 DPS (as opposed to 870 DPS). Fit follows. Also, I'm not going to argue that hail is 100% useless because you've obviously had some success with it... but I will say that hail is 99.95% useless and your anecdotal evidence seems to rank up there with me killing Myrmidons and Vexors in a Thrasher. [Hurricane, Branko's Hurricane] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 425mm AutoCannon II, Hail M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hammerhead II x1 Hobgoblin II x4 -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.11 07:11:00 - [50] Edited by: Kano Sekor on 11/08/2008 07:11:06 The only way i see a Hurricane threatening my Harbinger is if it has some kind of dual neut set up and quite frankly the Cane is so unpredictable so i might even meet that kind of setup. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jane Retail	Posted - 2008.08.11 07:11:00 - [51] It's the best loot ship in the game.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 07:29:00 - [52] I prefer the Cyclone. I tried the 'cane in FW for a while but I found that by the time I got into range of my guns the battle was over. For close-in fights it's a sweet ship for a good price but 'best in game?' nah. Then again the beauty of Eve is that there is no 'best ship in game'. Not unless you qualify what you are going to use it for and how the pilot is going to fly it. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.11 07:32:00 - [53] Originally by: Andrue I prefer the Cyclone. I tried the 'cane in FW for a while but I found that by the time I got into range of my guns the battle was over. For close-in fights it's a sweet ship for a good price but 'best in game?' nah. Then again the beauty of Eve is that there is no 'best ship in game'. Not unless you qualify what you are going to use it for and how the pilot is going to fly it. Dude you do know you can hit under 2 x Falloff + Optimal? ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 07:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Jane Retail It's the best loot ship in the game. Nah. One of the marauders is. My Golem has over 3,000m3 of cargo space and can tractor objects from up to 40km away more quickly than other ships can tractor things from up to 20km. I hardly ever have to move to pick up loot. The other day I looted and salvaged AE4+bonus room in fifteen minutes. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Jane Retail	Posted - 2008.08.11 07:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Jane Retail It's the best loot ship in the game. Nah. One of the marauders is. My Golem has over 3,000m3 of cargo space and can tractor objects from up to 40km away more quickly than other ships can tractor things from up to 20km. I hardly ever have to move to pick up loot. The other day I looted and salvaged AE4+bonus room in fifteen minutes. Agreed. but as long as someone isn't rich enough to afford a second marauder as pure loot ship ===>>> Hurricane
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.11 10:31:00 - [56] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 10:32:40 Originally by: Liang Nuren Well, my numbers were right for the 100% standard PVP fits that I used... but sure. Anyway dude, tell me what I'm doing wrong, because I get 807 DPS (as opposed to 870 DPS). Fit follows. I did list 807 DPS (says so in the revised table quite clearly). You originally listed 737 DPS however. I don't get where you get the 870 for the Hurricane now? Anyway, that's the fit. Originally by: Liang Nuren Also, I'm not going to argue that hail is 100% useless because you've obviously had some success with it... but I will say that hail is 99.95% useless and your anecdotal evidence seems to rank up there with me killing Myrmidons and Vexors in a Thrasher. I win I killed a lazor wielding Myrmidon mining in a belt in Egghelende in a Rifter. Well, OK, I lie, we had two rifters and a tristan, but you get the point. Anyway, I'd say Hail is situational rather then useless. If we had any worthwhile alternative to Hail (like all the other races do) I'd agree it was useless, but right now there is no viable alternative, so you better have dual webs to actually keep a target there. If you can get to 1km anyway. Originally by: Kano Sekor Dude you do know you can hit under 2 x Falloff + Optimal? Dude, did you know you do no DPS worth speaking of past optimal+falloff? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kai Jyokoroi The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.08.11 10:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Originally by: 0rch1d ...Drake ... wat I lol'd
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Cpt Branko Dude, did you know you do no DPS worth speaking of past optimal+falloff? Dude optimal + falloff => 50% DPS ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:25:00 - [59] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cpt Branko The only other BC which can exceed the Hurricane's gank is a gank-fit Brutix, and we're only talking about 1-2% here So I figure the most EHP/Gank cane you can get is the 6x 425/2x HAM/3x Gyro shield buffered hurricane. I'm going to rig these tests a bit because the Hurricane doesn't have full tackle but it's a requirement for the other ships. Ship \| Hitpoints \| DPS -----------+------------+---- Brutix \| 47763 \| 782 Harbinger \| 52445 \| 760 Hurricane \| 53873 \| 737 Drake \| 81827 \| 618 Quote: The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well. I thought that was the Myrm/Brutix's role. In either case, I'd rather use a plate Harby for this since it's DPS at 1km is higher than a cane (if you include tracking). -Liang For thr BILLIOTH time. Pulse lasers trackig is WORSE than AC and blasters!! ITs blasters==AC >Pulse lasers on tracking. I dont knwo where in hell people keep gettign these ideas that pulse lasers are the best trackers and Blasters the worse. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
burek Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.11 12:12:00 - [60] You're all wrong! The best battlecruiser is the Tempest. It's dps and active tank is lacking behind a few other battlecruisers, but easily has the most EHP when set up passively...
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.11 13:31:00 - [61] Originally by: Kagura Nikon For thr BILLIOTH time. Pulse lasers trackig is WORSE than AC and blasters!! ITs blasters==AC >Pulse lasers on tracking. I dont knwo where in hell people keep gettign these ideas that pulse lasers are the best trackers and Blasters the worse. Hail M. There is no other option for max DPS on target (faction ammo deals way less, because EMP it's based on deals less damage). -50% tracking. Amarr can just use AN multifreq for a staggering 1% dps drop from conflag, the drop between Hail and RF EMP is about 10-11%, at which point you no longer have a damage or damage type advantage over the Harbringer and are likely to die even up close. That's what we're talking about, unless you missed the whole Hail M discussion. That's why my post-nerf setups have dual webs. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 14:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Kano Sekor Originally by: Cpt Branko Dude, did you know you do no DPS worth speaking of past optimal+falloff? Dude optimal + falloff => 50% DPS Dude optimal + falloff => 39.5% DPS. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Tank and Gank It can be built with an impressive tank No it cant. It can fit a 1600 plate or 2 if you REALLY push it, but this ship CANNOT tank actively. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:22:00 - [64] Originally by: Kagura Nikon For thr BILLIOTH time. Pulse lasers trackig is WORSE than AC and blasters!! ITs blasters==AC >Pulse lasers on tracking. I dont knwo where in hell people keep gettign these ideas that pulse lasers are the best trackers and Blasters the worse. FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME: I said "include tracking" because: - Hail sucks for tracking - RF EMP M doesn't have the DPS - a HP Harby tracks a cane just fine at < 1km (web) Therefore: - Harby does more DPS - Harby tracks fine at 1km - Harby does more DPS at all ranges How hard is this to understand? -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:25:00 - [65] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Kagura Nikon For thr BILLIOTH time. Pulse lasers trackig is WORSE than AC and blasters!! ITs blasters==AC >Pulse lasers on tracking. I dont knwo where in hell people keep gettign these ideas that pulse lasers are the best trackers and Blasters the worse. Burrrrp beep boopo zzzzzezzzzt whirl kerplop beep. How hard is this to understand? -Liang /signed
Rajere No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:32:00 - [66] Edited by: Rajere on 11/08/2008 15:33:28 37.5% Quote: Also, I'm not going to argue that hail is 100% useless because you've obviously had some success with it... but I will say that hail is 99.95% useless and your anecdotal evidence seems to rank up there with me killing Myrmidons and Vexors in a Thrasher. anecdotal evidence: My Stats I use the hurricane more than any other ship and 90% of the time i'm using Hail M. The only time Hail is useless is if you are webbed, which is why you carry barrage with you. Then again I fit my hurricane specifically to use Hail, not as an EFT theorycraft gimmick. I've tried 1600 plate tank/dual web setups, and while they give you better EHP and in theory are better able to hold a target in range for hail, in practice i've found that they are too slow and too bulky to reliably close range on targets to get into hail range to begin with. About the only things you can reliably close in on are plated BS like blaster Megas and if you go toe to toe with a Blaster Mega you can kiss your EHP advantage goodbye. I bought 100k rounds of Hail M @ 100 isk/round back in the days when absolutely no one used Hail and it was cheaper than T1 ammo. Hail has gone up in price since people switched from QuickFit to EFT and realize it's the sekret sauce for leet dps, but hail is useless if you don't know how to use it. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:40:00 - [67] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 15:40:47 Originally by: Rajere anecdotal evidence: My Stats I use the hurricane more than any other ship and 90% of the time i'm using Hail M. The only time Hail is useless is if you are webbed, which is why you carry barrage with you. Then again I fit my hurricane specifically to use Hail, not as an EFT theorycraft gimmick. I've tried 1600 plate tank/dual web setups, and while they give you better EHP and in theory are better able to hold a target in range for hail, in practice i've found that they are too slow and too bulky to reliably close range on targets to get into hail range to begin with. About the only things you can reliably close in on are plated BS like blaster Megas and if you go toe to toe with a Blaster Mega you can kiss your EHP advantage goodbye. I bought 100k rounds of Hail M @ 100 isk/round back in the days when absolutely no one used Hail and it was cheaper than T1 ammo. Hail has gone up in price since people switched from QuickFit to EFT and realize it's the sekret sauce for leet dps, but hail is useless if you don't know how to use it. Well. The issue with dual-LSE setups is: (a) They're weaker post-SISI changes. (b) They're not solo viable (read: they're hardly viable at all) post-SISI. (c) They're holding nothing in Hail M ranges post-SISI especially. Anyway, plate + dual web works fine. Yes, you must shut off your MWD off in a timely fashion in order to get to your desired 1km range where Hail is effective. If you don't menage to, well, then you just reload to barrage and hope the other guy has a crap fit (because with barrage you're not killing anything Amarr/etc of equal size unless they're stupid). And, yes, EHP counts a lot in small gang/solo, not just for blasterthrons - there's tons and tons of ships which will mow down a Hurricane without EHP to survive up close. Also, since we're posting KB links, try this for Hail M usage at point blank: Yarrr Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:42:00 - [68] Originally by: Rajere 37.5% 39.5%. You're forgetting the 1% chance for 3x multiplier at every range. You do 102% of your EFT/paper DPS at your optimal. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:20:00 - [69] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Rajere 37.5% 39.5%. You're forgetting the 1% chance for 3x multiplier at every range. You do 102% of your EFT/paper DPS at your optimal. What ??? why isnt it 50%? Some new matar bullshit...
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Rajere 37.5% 39.5%. You're forgetting the 1% chance for 3x multiplier at every range. You do 102% of your EFT/paper DPS at your optimal. What ??? why isnt it 50%? Some new matar bullshit... Hit quality. Sounds like you should go educate yourself. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:23:00 - [71] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Rajere 37.5% 39.5%. You're forgetting the 1% chance for 3x multiplier at every range. You do 102% of your EFT/paper DPS at your optimal. What ??? why isnt it 50%? Some new matar bullshit... Hit quality. Sounds like you should go educate yourself. Ignorance is bliss when it comes to learning about minmatar. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:25:00 - [72] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Rajere 37.5% 39.5%. You're forgetting the 1% chance for 3x multiplier at every range. You do 102% of your EFT/paper DPS at your optimal. What ??? why isnt it 50%? Some new matar bullshit... Hit quality. Sounds like you should go educate yourself. Oh so hit chance is still 50% :)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:27:00 - [73] Originally by: Naomi Knight Oh so hit chance is still 50% :) 39.5% of paper DPS is done. You can phrase it however you want if it helps you sleep at night. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:29:00 - [74] Originally by: Rajere I use the hurricane more than any other ship and 90% of the time i'm using Hail M. I'm usually using Tremor or RF EMP. Maybe I should claim that Quake is teh pwnz or something and everyone that doesn't use it is ****ed and an EFT Gimmick. Quote: The only time Hail is useless is if you are webbed, which is why you carry barrage with you. Then again I fit my hurricane specifically to use Hail, not as an EFT theorycraft gimmick. IMO, you give up too much to use Hail. Thus, I consider it's uses very limited (if not downright useless). Next you'll be telling me to use Rage missiles too. Quote:** Hail has gone up in price since people switched from QuickFit to EFT and realize it's the sekret sauce for leet dps, but hail is useless if you don't know how to use it. Dude, I hate to break the news to you, but just because you think you figured out how to use Hail doesn't mean that you're an uber leet PVP'er. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:46:00 - [75] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Naomi Knight Oh so hit chance is still 50% :) 39.5% of paper DPS is done. You can phrase it however you want if it helps you sleep at night. Could you post the formula?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:54:00 - [76] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Naomi Knight Oh so hit chance is still 50% :) 39.5% of paper DPS is done. You can phrase it however you want if it helps you sleep at night. Could you post the formula? I have several times, but ill do it simply. Hit quality at optimal ranges from 1.5-0.5x. It averages at 1.0x with a 1% chance for 3x, averaging 102%. Hit quality at 1x falloff ranges from 1.0 - 0.5x, averaging at 0.75x with a 1% chance for 3x, averaging .77x. Multiplied by hit chance due to falloff (.5) and you get 38.5%. My bad, I made it look better than it actually is. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:56:00 - [77] Quote: Next you'll be telling me to use Rage missiles too. Nothing the matter with Rage missiles. Cheaper than CN missiles and the cap penalty is normally inconsequential on a buffer-tanked ship. Rage HAMs are certainly the correct ammo to use against another BC.
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.11 17:21:00 - [78] Hmm so the best ship in capitals-online is the cane ? and even if this was eve-online and not capitals online ... here is a small list of ships that > the Cane Drake Blasterrohk torpscorp torpraven onyx crow Harbinger Armegeddon apoc Abbadon prophecy Zealot sacrligiege curse ooh ok sorry I got bored ... all command ship most t2 cruisers most other BC's. and the drake isn't the best BC ingame . The myrm is . out tanks the drake . has much e-war fun as well. it looks weird. ooh and Quote: But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. I fall for that one every single time >< d'oh !! ---- there's an evil monkey behind you !!
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:03:00 - [79] Originally by: Gypsio III I think the Hurricane is the worst tier 2 BC. It doesn't tank very well and it doesn't gank very well either. Its mobility advantage is fairly inconsequential. It's the Tempest of battlecruisers. My Hurricane will pwn the **** out of any other T2 PvP fit Harbinger, Myrmmidon, or Drake you can throw at it... pick one. All setups must include MWD and Warp disruptor.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:05:00 - [80] Originally by: General Spaz Originally by: Gypsio III I think the Hurricane is the worst tier 2 BC. It doesn't tank very well and it doesn't gank very well either. Its mobility advantage is fairly inconsequential. It's the Tempest of battlecruisers. My Hurricane will pwn the **** out of any other T2 PvP fit Harbinger, Myrmmidon, or Drake you can throw at it... pick one. All setups must include MWD and Warp disruptor. Well fit harbinger will take you down, as will a HAM drake. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:13:00 - [81] Are you kidding me? Do you know how easy it is to stack against EM/Thermal on a Tanked Cane? Harbinger has no chance. HAM Drake is an easy kill too, barrage hits farther out and the Cane is faster. Also good luck with your 4 slot shield tank. If he fii=ts for damage he will melt very fast, if he fits for tank he will hit like a sissy.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:20:00 - [82] Edited by: Gypsio III on 11/08/2008 18:22:20 Originally by: General Spaz HAM Drake is an easy kill too, barrage hits farther out and the Cane is faster. Also good luck with your 4 slot shield tank. If he fii=ts for damage he will melt very fast, if he fits for tank he will hit like a sissy. I suggest that you have a quick look at the range of Jav HAMs. Following that, have a quick look at the difference in agility and speed between a 1600-plated, armour-rigged Hurricane and a Drake. Also, I use a seven-slot shield tank.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:21:00 - [83] Originally by: General Spaz Are you kidding me? Do you know how easy it is to stack against EM/Thermal on a Tanked Cane? Harbinger has no chance. HAM Drake is an easy kill too, barrage hits farther out and the Cane is faster. Also good luck with your 4 slot shield tank. If he fii=ts for damage he will melt very fast, if he fits for tank he will hit like a sissy. Um... dude. You have no idea the danger that a properly fit Drake poses. Wow. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
General Spaz Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:28:00 - [84] Actually... I have another character that flies drakes, and yes i'm well aware of what Javelin HAM's can do. And no... I wouldn't use a plated setup against a Drake. The point i'm trying to make here is that there is a fit and counter for every BC setup there is no matter which race you fly. But, you never know how your enemy is going to fit do you?
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:31:00 - [85] Originally by: General Spaz Originally by: Gypsio III I think the Hurricane is the worst tier 2 BC. It doesn't tank very well and it doesn't gank very well either. Its mobility advantage is fairly inconsequential. It's the Tempest of battlecruisers. My Hurricane will pwn the **** out of any other T2 PvP fit Harbinger, Myrmmidon, or Drake you can throw at it... pick one. All setups must include MWD and Warp disruptor. Myrm will kill you Drake will kill you for sure Harbinger will probably kill you as well.... If you fit EM-thermal hardeners , or Kin/thermal hardeners . you don't know much about pvp , but alot about level IV missions ..... ---- Listen to Eve Radio and Join DJ wiggles Frigate FFA on fridays!! yup this is a shameless advert from a random listener ....
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:52:00 - [86] Hurricane is complete pwnage Love the ship. Favorite ship in the game other than the malediction/crow/claw/typhoon/megathron/rapier tbh
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.11 18:58:00 - [87] Originally by: General Spaz Actually... I have another character that flies drakes, and yes i'm well aware of what Javelin HAM's can do. And no... I wouldn't use a plated setup against a Drake. The point i'm trying to make here is that there is a fit and counter for every BC setup there is no matter which race you fly. But, you never know how your enemy is going to fit do you? The point is that you're specifically fitting your cane to try and take out the general purpose fit from the other BC's. That's a recipe destined to failure. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.11 20:06:00 - [88] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/08/2008 20:09:26 To the guy with "I can counter-fit", I want that in-space refitting tool so I can tailor my setup to whatever target. Anyway, I'm still quite sure I'll win vs a Harbringer, if I land close. About the eff HP differences - being shot at by EM/therm doesn't make that much difference as you'd believe, because the Hurricane derives much of its effective HP from shields and structure too, and the Harbringer tends to do mostly thermal anyway, even with AN MF. Say you have a EANM II + DC II + 1600mm RT for a tank. If you are running un-trimarked you will have 45,273 effective HP (58,721 with trimarks). Versus the Harbringer, you will have 45,415 eff HP (58,969 with trimarks). It's 0.3% increase w/out trimarks, or a 0.4% increase with trimarks. A trimarked Harbringer (in a max gank HPL setup, meaning 800mm RT plate, or a RCU+1600mm which gives worse results) will have about 55.017 effective HP. Vs a Hurricane it will have 52.907 effective HP, which is a 3.8% decrease. Noticeable, but not very major. Naturally, I know little in way of Harbringer fittings. If it were possible to fit a 1600mm RT without grid mods together with a HPL setup it'd almost certainly win even solo close-range combat (and it already wins at any range other then point blank). Well, with max skills you can, but it requires you to fit 3 FMP IIs or 2 FMP IIs with a grid implant. I can't be arsed to do the math on what happens then, though. At any rate, the Harbringer is probably better for most purposes (particularly gang work), as the Hurricane offers very little advantage in gank over it, and neither of these ships can take on a Drake anyway (well, the Harbringer might have chances, but the DPS difference is too low to compensate for the effective HP differences, cant be bothered to do the math so don't quote me on that). If I wanted a BC to specialize in, I'd pick the Harbringer/Hurricane however, as there are no equivalents of slave-sets for shieldtanks, and I prefer ships which gank better anyway. So the two armour tankers offer higher max performance if you're going to sink a lot of ISK into them. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.11 20:22:00 - [89] Branko's post TL;DR Hurricane and Harby are good. Harby better for range/gang. Drakes **** both. Train for ze Caldariiii!
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2008.08.11 21:52:00 - [90] Awesome solo ship, bullet magnet and cannon fodder in fleets.
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.11 21:58:00 - [91] Edited by: Yakov Draken on 11/08/2008 22:00:44 Originally by: Liang Nuren IMO, you give up too much to use Hail. Thus, I consider it's uses very limited (if not downright useless). Next you'll be telling me to use Rage missiles too. -Liang Liang I have flown the Hurricane heaps, I have many hundred kills with and I fit Hail alot. I know what damage I do because I can compare it to my gang mates on the killmails and Hail M is a very good ammo type for up close pwnage. On the odd occasions I found myself flying with people outside our corp I got comments like "wow you are doing awesome damage in your Hurricane - how do you manage it?" You are doing something wrong. You really should stop pushing the Hail M sucks line. The feedback from many experianced and highly successful Minmatar pilots is that Hail M works and that feedback is based on combat results not EFT. Hail L on the other hand I have serious doubts about and that too is based on real combat experiances and close to 200 kills flying a Tempest.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2008.08.11 22:32:00 - [92] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Speed Along with the Cyclone it shares the top spot for highest BC (base) speed at 165m/sec. Every BC hull and CS hull have exactly the same mass and velocity. Cyclone, Hurricane, Sleipnir, Claymore = 165 m/sec and 12.5 Mkg Prophecy, Harbinger, Damnation, Absolution = 150 m/sec and 13.5 Mkg Brutix, Myrmidon, Astarte, Eos = 145 m/sec and 13.25 Mkg Ferox, Drake, Nighthawk, Vulture = 140 m/sec and 14 Mkg *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:47:00 - [93] Hail M isnt useless...if some guy ask me to 1 vs 1 him in a myrm...i will fit hail m and destroy him. Also a drake with HAMs has no tank...hurricane will win Harb will die to nuets myrm...myrm is scary just cause of ecm drones..otherwise it will also die. And when fighting other canes i will use Barrage M and fight at 15km. hurray for falloff rigs.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:54:00 - [94] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/08/2008 00:54:21 Originally by: elnukeo Also a drake with HAMs has no tank...hurricane will win Oh, my god, the noobishness. HAM gank Drake, 83.2K effective HP with extender rigs or 68K with ultra-cheap resist rigs. Gank Hurricane, 58.7K effective HP when trimarked, and 45.2K effective HP without trimarks. Lols. Originally by: elnukeo Harb will die to nuets If its cap injected it won't, the neuts are wasted and you've sacrificed a good part of your DPS on the 'neut it' gamble. Also, if said Myrmidon dual webs you at 7-8km and you stop moving, Hail M doesn't do jack at the range and you're not breaking it with Barrage M either. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:00:00 - [95] lol...first off if you only knew how i fit my cane. Recently found an awesome fit, hasnt been killed yet. As for the myrm, i will set my drones on his and take away his dps, all the while killing him with turrets.. idk how noobish this sounds, but i prefer rather to play than to chat on the forums..on vacation atm..i miss eve
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:01:00 - [96] I've always found that hurricane to be mediocre at best - but saying this in public gets the "wtf bbq stats on my KB" kiddies all up in my face. Thats right, i think the cyclone is better. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:02:00 - [97] Originally by: elnukeo lol...first off if you only knew how i fit my cane. Recently found an awesome fit, hasnt been killed yet. As for the myrm, i will set my drones on his and take away his dps, all the while killing him with turrets.. idk how noobish this sounds, but i prefer rather to play than to chat on the forums..on vacation atm..i miss eve I can tell you right now your cane setup is not new, innovative, or able to **** a ham drake.
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:04:00 - [98] i also like the cyclone, since i can fully t2 fit it. but since i can only tank 370dps and do about 350dps, its not good enough compared to my cane. still fun with 3 nuets tho and the somewhat drone bandwith you get
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:05:00 - [99] I can tell you right now your cane setup is not new, innovative, or able to **** a ham drake. where are you in eve? i want to kill you, in my cane ofcourse
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:07:00 - [100] Originally by: elnukeo i also like the cyclone, since i can fully t2 fit it. but since i can only tank 370dps and do about 350dps, its not good enough compared to my cane. still fun with 3 nuets tho and the somewhat drone bandwith you get Cyclone does a bit mroe DPS than that, and my setup can tank about 450dps, 500 if i have a crystal or 2 in. It's not an uber-pwn ship, but its VERY cheap and effective for what ive been doing, random roaming against whatever i find. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:09:00 - [101] Originally by: elnukeo where are you in eve? i want to kill you, in my cane ofcourse Your immaturity and over-confidence just further proves my point.
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:09:00 - [102] hmm..i wonder why my cyclone cant do that..damn my lvl5 shield skills..i still say cane is better btw
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:11:00 - [103] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: elnukeo where are you in eve? i want to kill you, in my cane ofcourse Your immaturity and over-confidence just further proves my point. whats your point? lol
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:12:00 - [104] Originally by: elnukeo Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: elnukeo where are you in eve? i want to kill you, in my cane ofcourse Your immaturity and over-confidence just further proves my point. whats your point? lol Your hurricane is nothing new, innovate, and will still get owned by a HAM drake.
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:14:00 - [105] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: elnukeo Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: elnukeo where are you in eve? i want to kill you, in my cane ofcourse Your immaturity and over-confidence just further proves my point. whats your point? lol Your hurricane is nothing new, innovate, and will still get owned by a HAM drake. your point is dull
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:14:00 - [106] Originally by: elnukeo hmm..i wonder why my cyclone cant do that..damn my lvl5 shield skills..i still say cane is better btw Because you are fitting it differently from me. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:16:00 - [107] oh yeah...lol would you mind telling me how you fit yours.. but i gtg time for some mini golf
Maeltstome Minmatar Suicidal Office Clerks	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:17:00 - [108] Afraid i wont be sharing my fit until a KB reveals it, or the other 2 people who know it die - so far so good! Pirate island tbh. Just do it. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.12 02:05:00 - [109] Originally by: Yakov Draken Liang I have flown the Hurricane heaps, I have many hundred kills with and I fit Hail alot. I know what damage I do because I can compare it to my gang mates on the killmails and Hail M is a very good ammo type for up close pwnage. On the odd occasions I found myself flying with people outside our corp I got comments like "wow you are doing awesome damage in your Hurricane - how do you manage it?" You are doing something wrong. :-/ You make alot of assumptions about my Matari main. Also, TBH, I find that most people are awed by the damage output of half decent skills. Quote: You really should stop pushing the Hail M sucks line. The feedback from many experianced and highly successful Minmatar pilots is that Hail M works and that feedback is based on combat results not EFT. Hail L on the other hand I have serious doubts about and that too is based on real combat experiances and close to 200 kills flying a Tempest. Ok, so let me see if I understand you correctly: - You absolutely 100% MUST fit your ship specifically to use Hail M. - You have zero versatility for any situation outside of Hail M. So, yeah, sounds to me like you give up too much to use Hail M. You're building your entire setup around it FFS... and IMO that's a recipe for specialty at best and epic fail at worst. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.12 02:44:00 - [110] Originally by: Liang Nuren :-/ You make alot of assumptions about my Matari main. I didn't think I made any - I just reported on my experiance. I don't know who your Matari main is or that you had one - you could be cross trained for all I know. By mentioning my experiance I'm providing people the option of going to the Tides of War killboard (the pirate one not that FW one the doesn't work properly) to see if I'm just bullshitting. You will also discover that we have become appallingly inactive and that, and the incoming Matar nerf, is why I'm forum whoring. Originally by: Liang Nuren Ok, so let me see if I understand you correctly: - You absolutely 100% MUST fit your ship specifically to use Hail M. - You have zero versatility for any situation outside of Hail M. You lsot me there so I guess you haven't understood me correctly. I'll try again. In my Hurricane I carry faction EMP, Barrage and Hail. I choose the one best suited for the task in hand often doing the ammo switch as I'm warping from a strike point to the point of engagement. By the time I'm choosing which ammo to use I generally know the style of engagement I'm going to be in. If the combat will start at range (ie one side is jumping through a gate and the other camping) and will be fairly quick, or stay at range, I'll fit Barrage or EMP for ganking shield tankers. If on the other hand we are undock ganking, undocking into a station camping force, warping in on a gate camp, busting someones safe, or jumping into what will likely be an extended fight I'll probably fit Hail. Does that make the point a bit clearer? It is not about "absolutely 100%" or "zero versatility" and I really have no idea why you would think it would be. Hail is just an option. Sometimes it is the best ammo type sometimes it is not. If you scout well and know what you are facing it can be on the money. Oooh the joys of ammo s***ping. Btw why wouldn't Hail be useful? I read someone mentioning trouble overshooting with a MWD and while this can happen the more experiance you have at controlling the MWD the less of an issue it is. You should have a good idea at what range/speed you have to hit the space bar to start your ship decelerating.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.12 03:19:00 - [111] Originally by: Yakov Draken You will also discover that we have become appallingly inactive and that, and the incoming Matar nerf, is why I'm forum whoring. Yeah, I think I can understand that. Virtually the entire corp that I've played with since I started the game is inactive. Thus, my play time gets marginalized at times... :-/ Quote: Does that make the point a bit clearer? It is not about "absolutely 100%" or "zero versatility" and I really have no idea why you would think it would be. Hail is just an option. Sometimes it is the best ammo type sometimes it is not. If you scout well and know what you are facing it can be on the money. Oooh the joys of ammo s**ping. This is a far different picture than the picture than the other Hail proponents throughout the thread have painted. Also, I got you confused from Rajere in post 66.... sorry. I'll quote the other Hail proponents in this thread, and you'll see why nobody's been able to sway my opinion that Hail is useless* (almost). Originally by: Cpt Branko On the other side, nearly all these ships (bar the Brutix) do better at range then the Hurricane (actually, blasters do better at anything over 1km range, Hail optimal+falloff are smaller then CN AM/Void optimal+falloff). Besides, Hurricanes often suprise people. That blaster-pilot thinks he won the jackpot when a Minmatar ship is 1km off, and if it's a gank Hurricane, nothing could be farther from the truth. Originally by: Cpt Branko No need to rig the tests, just use a 1600MM RT + EANM II + DC II, full tackle with dual webs (prerequisite to use Hail anyway). Originally by: Cpt Branko For most ranges the Harbringer does the job of ganking better (in fact, any ranges beyond 1-2km). The Hurricane does slightly outshine it point blank, and it does have a overall more attractive damage type (Hail) which gives it a advantage against T1 armour tanks when up close (which is why you'd never ever want a Hurricane to get close to you when flying the Harbringer). Originally by: Cpt Branko If we had any worthwhile alternative to Hail (like all the other races do) I'd agree it was useless, but right now there is no viable alternative, so you better have dual webs to actually keep a target there. If you can get to 1km anyway. Originally by: Cpt Branko That's what we're talking about, unless you missed the whole Hail M discussion. That's why my post-nerf setups have dual webs. Originally by: Rajere Then again I fit my hurricane specifically to use Hail, not as an EFT theorycraft gimmick. Originally by: Cpt Branko The only way to beat other BCs in the (post-SISI change especially) Hurricane is to load Hail M, prey you land in 1km range of your target, dual web it, and melt away. When you do, however, it does this job very well. Originally by: Yakov Draken Liang I have flown the Hurricane heaps, I have many hundred kills with and I fit Hail alot. Originally by: elnuko Hail M isnt useless...if some guy ask me to 1 vs 1 him in a myrm...i will fit hail m and destroy him. Also a drake with HAMs has no tank...hurricane will win Harb will die to nuets myrm...myrm is scary just cause of ecm drones..otherwise it will also die. And when fighting other canes i will use Barrage M and fight at 15km. hurray for falloff rigs. Anyway, there's only a couple of people championing Hail, and the only ones with any credibility are you and Branko. Branko and I see more or less eye to eye on Hail: it's situational and has uses. He just sees more of them than I do, and I suspect this comes down to a piloting style difference. I just find the absurd tracking and range penalties to cost me more DPS than the base Hail gain. Purely anecdotal, of course. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Amandin Adouin Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.12 03:34:00 - [112] Originally by: Boz Well Burrrrp beep boopo zzzzzezzzzt whirl kerplop beep. How hard is this to understand? No no no. You totally misunderstood. I think you missed a beep .
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.12 04:06:00 - [113] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Yakov Draken Does that make the point a bit clearer? It is not about "absolutely 100%" or "zero versatility" and I really have no idea why you would think it would be. Hail is just an option. Sometimes it is the best ammo type sometimes it is not. If you scout well and know what you are facing it can be on the money. Oooh the joys of ammo s***ping. This is a far different picture than the picture than the other Hail proponents throughout the thread have painted. Also, I got you confused from Rajere in post 66.... sorry. Np. Btw if you haven't, and it sounds like you haven't, you should check the SHC ship forums. Plenty of useful discussion of the pros and cons of Hail there over time from vets. By vets I mean people who use it enough to have a fairly clear picture from KM's when it does more damage than other types. Medium AC's tracking is seldom an issue in the sort of stand and deliver combats where you load Hail - range might become one but generally isn't. It is a judgement call but "almost useless" is far from the mark. If you are going to give people advice on flying Matar ships saying don't use Hail M is bad advice IMO. I can't say the percentages I use Hail M vs Barrage M vs faction EMP M but I want to carry all three. Hail is worth carrying thus I believe it is entirely fair to say that Hail M is a good ammo type - unlike Hail L where the tracking penalty bites too hard.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.12 04:46:00 - [114] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 12/08/2008 04:47:03 Originally by: Yakov Draken Btw if you haven't, and it sounds like you haven't, you should check the SHC ship forums. Plenty of useful discussion of the pros and cons of Hail there over time from vets. By vets I mean people who use it enough to have a fairly clear picture from KM's when it does more damage than other types. I might. Every time someone recommends SHC to me they tout it as being full of the leet old schoolers that don't need no fancy computer program to see if their fits fit. It's a place where "EFT" is a bad word and EFT-***s like me quickly get banned. ;-) Eh, I guess I'm an EFT **... I try fits out in EFT before I try them in game, check out what they'll do in various situations, run them through my own engine to spot flaws, etc. I'm a huge* believer that the game can be accurately modeled outside of the game. It is, afterall, a computer simulation itself. Anyway, it would be false to say that I don't try my fits in game. I've got hundreds of kills spread over my alts... Eh. Anyway. Anyway, I think I know where I went wrong with Hail and I'll give it a shot sometime. I don't think it'll be easy to convince me that Hail is really worth carrying around though... because there's just been so many times that it hasn't worked out for me. I'll admit that at least a few of those times was in a gank 600-700 DPS Gank AC Muninn. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
elnukeo Running with Knives	Posted - 2008.08.12 04:52:00 - [115] i wish i was good at the whole quoting thing like liang.. i dont carry both ammos for 2 reasons.. 1.) i end up fitting it in guns, becuase i want more dps..then i lose my rupture which cost about 4 ruptures. 2.) i end up losing my ship for some reason with multiple ammo types. Look its a bowling ball --->(%) lol
Lrd Byron	Posted - 2008.08.12 07:01:00 - [116] somewhat unrelated, at least to the hail debate anyway. How does a hurricane fair for 0.0 ratting with a passive tank fit? I'm looking at 2 LSEII, 10MN MWDII, Invulnerability field II, 3 shield power relays and 3 Gyros, maybe some shield recharge rigs if they aren't too expensive.
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.12 07:26:00 - [117] Originally by: Liang Nuren Every time someone recommends SHC to me they tout it as being full of the leet old schoolers that don't need no fancy computer program to see if their fits fit. It's a place where "EFT" is a bad word and EFT-***s like me quickly get banned. ;-) Banned - nah just mocked. SHC is a good place to spend a fairly long while lurking and learning from people as there is always more to learn in a game like Eve. Don't rush into posting much and be prepared to ask questions rather than just stating opinions. When I started playing I came here for knowledge and found it lacking. Shortly after I found SHC and it has played a very useful role in my pvp education though I post there seldom. Sure there are plenty of idiots there but there are also those who are very knowledgeable and willing to share info. Eh, I guess I'm an EFT **... I'm a huge* believer that the game can be accurately modeled outside of the game. It is, afterall, a computer simulation itself. I'm big on the value of out of game learning to support in game learning and whatever game I play I shameless borrow whatever knoweledge I can find. In and of itself I don't believe it does much but what it does do is expand the speed of learning from in game experiance. As for Ratting in a Hurricane it should be fine so long as you pick the type of tanking to suit the damage type being shot at you. I've done it in Stain armor tanking and I could fit 3x gryo's and still tank the nastiest spawns. With a shield tank you should be able to deal with Angel rats comfortably.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.12 07:48:00 - [118] interesting thread. . . The Cain is a good Tier2 battlecruiser, but I personally think the Harbinger is superior. And please. . .the Drake is not a pvp ship. . .srsly. ---- GO BLUE!!
Atrei Capital	Posted - 2008.08.12 08:20:00 - [119] I personally use three projectile falloff rigs and enjoy my 20k+ falloff with barrage. I can gank a blaster cruiser / BC at a range where blasters have a 0% hit rate. With the hurricanes speed, you can keep them out of range, too. (Hint: Don't plate a fast BC. Put a couple nano / istab on it, but not a full nano-fit. Keep a medium rep and gyrostabs.) I'll take my 2k/s speed with 450 DPS using barrage. (Better with hail, of course, but I only load that when I know it'll be a close range gank). To be honest, you either use your ship to your advantage, or you die. Trying to make it into a wannabe brutix is a recipe for disaster. (Also, speed nerf won't gimp a fast 'cane. I'll just fit three nanofibers and get the effect of two istab + two overdrive, while still fitting gyros and a rep. Hell, it might even get a bit better. )
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.08.12 08:39:00 - [120] I find the lack of fits in this thread disturbing. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zantei	Posted - 2008.08.12 10:00:00 - [121] Once the web nerf kicks in, you'll see that ACs are more useful than they've ever been. ------------------------------------------
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 10:04:00 - [122] NoobShips pwn nethin
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 11:41:00 - [123] Originally by: Atrei Capital I can gank a blaster cruiser / BC at a range where blasters have a 0% hit rate. With the hurricanes speed, you can keep them out of range, too. (Hint: Don't plate a fast BC. Put a couple nano / istab on it, but not a full nano-fit. Keep a medium rep and gyrostabs.) First off, there is no possible way you do 450 DPS at 20km. If you want to do the range game, you should be using a Harbringer. A Hurricane with three gyros (which your fit probably doesn't have), three falloff rigs and, say, 220s+HAMs does about 450 paper DPS at 20km. In practice, it's going to be more like 400 DPS tops at the range you describe thanks to the lovely workings of hit quality. With two gyros and not so perfect drone/HAM skills you get even less. Secondly, a single MAR is next to useless. You have basically no close-range survivability, and you have less gyros if you're fitting two/three speed mods + MAR anyway. It only works vs solo blasterboats because of your range advantage, and it's going to work much worse when SISI changes go through (reactivation delay, for starters, general MWD speed nerf, etc). Originally by: Atrei Capital To be honest, you either use your ship to your advantage, or you die. Trying to make it into a wannabe brutix is a recipe for disaster. Sure, let's pretend for a moment that the only thing the Hurricane should do is stick at 20km. What target selection does that give us? While you can beat a Brutix that way easily (or some Myrmidons), you will always lose or disengage to a Harbringer or Drake. That can't be so good, can it? Also, in setup which has no buffer to speak of, you're not suited at all to deal with situations with multiple hostiles, or with people using lasers/ACs in general. That's not so good. Numbers and hands-on experience quite handily show that you're melting that Brutix (and most Myrmidons too, and if you've got trimarks+slaves even possibly melting a freaking Astarte in blaster range) even point blank, and it's preety much the only way to melt a Harbringer or Drake(well, you'll still die to a good HAM+gank one). Yes, you cannot run away if things go bad and you're up close, true, but so what? I'd rather be able to fight more ships (and multiple opponents) more effectively, and ending engagements faster on the whole, then only relying on sticking at 20km and doing sub-par damage all the time. Which isn't to say that at times I don't stick at 15-16km away myself, but I don't treat my ship like a one-trick pony. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.12 12:51:00 - [124] Originally by: Abrazzar You need to fit the Hurricane with lasers to make it really Star Destroyer'ish and drop the missile launchers for tractor beams. Shield tank of course. No AB or speed mods. Then and only then the Hurricane is the best ship available in EVE. oh theyd BETTER bring out tier 2 tech 2 hurris with the gray/black camo paintjob then all we need to do is say "oper oper oper" DIE REBEL SCUM poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast

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