Originally by: murder one

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WTZ has hurt PVP in many ways: reducing the contact time between opposing forces, decreasing the travel speed differences between large and small ships to nothing more than align time and in-warp speed... the list goes on...

Sure, bookmarks needed to be removed, but that doesn't mean that they needed to be replaced with something else. WTZ has decreased the relative size of the Eve universe by a massive amount. It's nearly as easy to move slow, fat haulers and battleships as it is cruisers and frigs with WTZ in place.

Just think of the combat implications in 0.0: moving big fleets of big ships took a while. Fleets of smaller more agile cruisers with AB/MWD could actually out flank an enemy fleet composed of BCs and BS. The same goes for inty/AF fleets. Yes, I know that in-warp speed helps to make a difference, but there would be a much wider difference with a minimum 15km warp distance imposed on large ships.

WTZ has impacted trade as well. It's become all too easy to fly 10-15 jumps one way to purchase items in person instead of either sticking to the local market where the extra 500k-1m ISK price difference is worth the convenience of buying local, or paying someone else to do a courier mission for you to move your items.

Markets are now much more homogeneous, as everyone can simply travel to the various trade hubs in fifteen minutes or so to buy what they need, with a hauler no less.

The answer is simple: impose a 115km radius 'no bookmark zone' around stations and gates, and have the minimum warp in distance to stations and gates become 15km. All other celestial objects (belts, players, wrecks, cans etc.) are able to be warped to at 0km.

Players will always be able to warp to stations and gates at 30, 50, 70, 100km as needed, and will be able to place sniper/EW bookmarks anywhere they like 115km or more from the gates. This doesn't change anything with respect to current combat techniques regarding gate/station bookmarks.

What it will do is ensure that no one can make 'insta' bookmarks to avoid combat or the cost of travel time. Even if you make 'security' bookmarks 300km off a particular gate so that you can warp there before actually jumping to the gate, how does that change current bookmark load/gameplay? You'd still have to warp in at 15km and leg it to the gate.

Eve has been watered down over and over. The older meaner, more difficult Eve was a good thing. With an increasing percentage of the player base becoming more mature skillpiont/experience wise, we need a more difficult, more challenging game. The 'noobs' have it better than ever with almost 1m SP to start and easy ISK earning in high sec. A little travel time won't hurt anyone.

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Originally by: Guttripper

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Instead of endlessly bickering (a favorite past time on these forums), how about a potential compromise to discuss?

Larger ships have better navigational computers and thus should be able to warp closer to the gate. Smaller ships would have a greater chance of being off the mark, and thus appear farther away. Add a random drift distance, and warping is not a perfect art. Thus a battleship could arrive around 5,000 kilometers with a drift of +/- 2,500 kilometers. A cruiser could arrive 10,000 kilometers with a drift of +/- 3,000 kilometers. Frigates could arrive 15,000 kilometers with a drift of +/- 5,000 kilometers. While bigger ships could handle some combat, I feel that smaller ships could accelerate faster while having a smaller signature radius to lock onto and thus could reach a gate before being involved in deep combat sessions. And specialized ships like transporters should be able to have the ability to warp right to the gate.

And CCP could offer (some) new skill(s) *hears the outpouring of groans* to reduce the drift factors but not the standard warp distance per ship class.

Just an idea, instead of everything having to be so black and white on these boards among the player base.

Thanks for reading.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Or: tie the variance to warp speed. Faster warp = greater spread of distance from warp to point. Make it a normal distribution from 0 Km to n Km where n = eg: 1.5 your speed in AU/s

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Originally by: murder one

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...
The answer is simple: impose a 115km radius 'no bookmark zone' around stations and gates, and have the minimum warp in distance to stations and gates become 15km. All other celestial objects (belts, players, wrecks, cans etc.) are able to be warped to at 0km.
...

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Originally by: Virsalura

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You're simple answer would only promote the creation of thousands of insta-bookmarks once again, which was the very reason why CCP created WTZ, to remove the need for insta bm's and therefor clearing out the database a bit.

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Originally by: murder one

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Eve has been watered down over and over.

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Quote:

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The older meaner, more difficult Eve was a good thing.

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Quote:

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With an increasing percentage of the player base becoming more mature skillpiont/experience wise, we need a more difficult, more challenging game.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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WTZ makes the angels weep.

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Originally by: Andrue

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Edited by: Andrue on 12/08/2008 11:59:42
It didn't have many people playing it though.

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Originally by: Opertone

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another i want to be a pirate but i can't, pls fix it thread...

gate camping is wrong, when you want to fight you need to look for a fight... not take badger kills as granted in low sec...

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Originally by: Virsalura

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Originally by: murder one

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The answer is simple: impose a 115km radius 'no bookmark zone' around stations and gates, and have the minimum warp in distance to stations and gates become 15km. All other celestial objects (belts, players, wrecks, cans etc.) are able to be warped to at 0km.

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You're simple answer would only promote the creation of thousands of insta-bookmarks once again, which was the very reason why CCP created WTZ, to remove the need for insta bm's and therefor clearing out the database a bit.

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Originally by: ShardowRhino

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Thats a good thing, their tears make my horn extremely shiny. As for wtz hurting and the idea that moving a "big fleet of big ships used to take forever", Uh, you shot your argument to death already. BOOKMARKS!!!!!!!!!! There was a reason why there was a market for BMs of various regions! There was never a limit to how many times you copied the BM and passed it around.

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