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Korizan Oort Cloud Industries Ultionis Quietus	Posted - 2008.08.13 15:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months. Corporations with personnal Titans. Already in the game. But then again you have 1000+ character corporations, what did you expect. There are only 24 alliances as of today that have more then 1000 members
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.08.13 15:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Korizan Originally by: Neesa Corrinne But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months. Corporations with personnal Titans. Already in the game. But then again you have 1000+ character corporations, what did you expect. There are only 24 alliances as of today that have more then 1000 members I see what you are saying, but maybe I should have been more clear on this point. 1000 member corporations are really just miniature alliances. I was talking about the more traditional, ~200 man corporations. When they start owning personal titans without the backing of an alliance, then the game will truly start sliding downhill. Training any ship in the game will just be a stepping stone to training capital ships, cause who will want to fly a HAC when everyone has a Nyx?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 15:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Pan Crastus Titans will be nerfed soon because it's impossible to tackle something when 3+ Titans of the same dmg type are on the grid (unless you happen to have an expensive HIC designed to tank just enough of the right type of DDs, like a Devoter for 3 Ragnaroks). I would imagine that DD's will be nerfed so only 1 can be activated per 30 minutes and system. It's a simple and reasonable change. Apart from that, they could also add capital tackling mods to the game (e.g. infinipoint for Carriers/MS) or make HICs immune to DD. [sarcasm] Great Idea, so I fire mine, you can't fire yours for ne next half hour and my fleet is safe. [/sarcasm] Originally by: Gamesguy the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
Nidda Coldbrew	Posted - 2008.08.13 15:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne I was talking about the more traditional, ~200 man corporations. When they start owning personal titans without the backing of an alliance, then the game will truly start sliding downhill. As long as you are talking about 200 man corp's that are part of an alliance, but have their own personal titan's that the alliance has no claim on, then that's already has happened. I don't know of any stand alone, non-alliance, 200 man corps with their own titan's, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's inevitable.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 15:58:00 - [35] Suicide titans in Jita!
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries Ultionis Quietus	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:03:00 - [36] I reality Alliances don't own anything. The corporations own it. The corporations are the real power in an alliance. An alliance is nothing more then a name and an association A 200 man alliance with 20 corporations will get wiped by a 200 man corporation any day of the week. And all you have to do is look at the history of 0.0 for proof.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Venkul Mul Definition of too many Titans = one more of what my alliance can field. So... one Titan is one titan too many ? _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Vladimir Griftin So, as the game continues on its natural progression, ISK inflation rampantly out of control. The idea of having fleets of Titans isn't that far away. Seeing triple DD's wipe out entire fleets (Impossible to tank 3 in any sub-capital) is becoming pretty common place. Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality. Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'? if that ever happened CCP wld respond with nasty wrath and nerf the titan pilots to hell n back for being so naughty poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Jen Takhesis Vanguard Venture	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:20:00 - [39] Buff titans offensively and defensively, but don't allow them to ever log out. If the corp/alliance can't/doesn't pilot it 23/7, then it just sits there empty waiting to be stolen or destroyed.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:26:00 - [40] What about making all Titan's undergo an upkeep fee. Alliances will have to consider their isk to keep their Titan's running. Once a Titan is built, it will cost you 'X' amount of isk a month just to keep it tuned up and running. I'd even go as far as implementing this with ALL capital ships. No longer can you just build it and fly it... you must upkeep it. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.

Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:38:00 - [41] One of the problems with Titans is their multipurpose nature; they would be worth buying if they were just a mobile jump bridge with no offense at all. I think they should be split into 3 different ships: - Mobile jumpbridge. Huge, vulnerable ship that can launch entire fleets through it's jump portal. No fittings at all, similar to freighters. - Capital command ship. Dread-sized ship with the huge gang bonuses that titans currently have. - DD-launcher. Some sort of ship whose only purpose is to carry and launch a doomsday. Possibly the ship always dies after one DD goes off. I'm sure plenty of debate could be had about how exactly to do the split and what sort of ships we would get as a result, and how to go about stopping blobs of DD ships... but I think the basic idea is sound. Titan can simply do too much atm.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:40:00 - [42] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 13/08/2008 16:43:38 Originally by: Pithecanthropus What about making all Titan's undergo an upkeep fee. Alliances will have to consider their isk to keep their Titan's running. Once a Titan is built, it will cost you 'X' amount of isk a month just to keep it tuned up and running. I'd even go as far as implementing this with ALL capital ships. No longer can you just build it and fly it... you must upkeep it. Requiring a constant fuel upkeep for Titans a la POS control towers actually isn't a bad idea. No fuel = no module function, and of course there are modules like the DDD and abilities like cyno jumping that need fuel of their own already. I wouldn't personally want to extend this same requirement to Moms or other capital ships, but it would work on a Titan. However, I'd prefer that Titans receive a bit of a buff in some places and reconfiguring in others before adding the fuel requirement. Originally by: Tiirae - DD-launcher. Some sort of ship whose only purpose is to carry and launch a doomsday. Possibly the ship always dies after one DD goes off. This would get spammed to insane levels. One of the things that makes people think twice about how they use DDD's is the fact that the Titan is extremely vulnerable for at least ten minutes after it fires due to the cyno ability being switched off for that time. If you had disposable Doomsday ships then: 1. if they were too expensive they'd never be used 2. if they weren't too expensive then everyone capable of building them would spam them into every cap fleet it encountered. I'm all for chaos in this game but... I mean there's got to be a more elegant solution to the cap blob issue (if there really is an issue there.)
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:43:00 - [43] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Vladimir Griftin Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'? I'm not entirely sure they did, actually. It's impossible to balance something entirely around cost because there is no cap for an alliance's ability to build wealth as long as they can defend their space (titans assist in doing that, which doesn't help). The best solution needs to be the same solution that makes it so alliances can't come up with too many capital ships and carriers (though carriers is arguable in that regard) - they they're ineffective against smaller more numerous ships. A Titan's DDD is more effective against smaller, more numerous ships. They also need to be buffed so that alliances are actually willing to commit them in combat, as that's the only way they're going to be destroyed realistically. Otherwise alliances will just stockpile titans which makes it impossible for any entity without titans (i.e. one not holding 0.0 space) to effectively attack them. I've heard the argument for a scripted DDD. Nerf the smartbomb effect, add a focused "death star" type ship/pos/anything killing beam, walla! Balance. Ok, maybe not, but I think it would be interesting. Interesting? A script would just add more polyvalence to the DDD, not nerf it's power, since you'd still have the area of effect mode. It would also do nothing to prevent a pure titan fleet to eventually be invulnerable to anything but another titan fleet. To be honest, I think CCP shot itself on the foot when they decided a grid-large wtfpwning weapon would be a good addition to a MMO, and didn't think much about effects past the "Big Boom" factor. Somewhere down the coming months, DDD will have to be removed, there will be no other solution. Thinking an activation timer would be enough of a nerf to keep it balanced was a case of wishfull thinking, and didn't take lag into account. Thinking cost would keep their number down to an handfull was a case of wishfull thinking, and didn't take into account that Eve is a MMO, not a solo RTS game where progress is reset after the next session. As for the possibility for remote-activation, we already saw just how screwed up it could be, and it got nerfed. We're now at the point where one alliance have 15-20 titans, and a whole lot of others have more than 3. While the "titan fleet wtfpwning dread fleet" event hasn't happened yet, it's only a matter of weeks or months before it does happen. CCP has best thinking about something preemptive now, rather than after the fact. ------------------------------------------
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Pure.	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:45:00 - [44] Edited by: Nyack on 13/08/2008 16:46:24 well think one step further.. why does these alliances afford to build this many super caps-> complexes, t2 bpos and moons. static complexes: in the beginning these were one of the main assets of 0.0 claiming alliances and alliance could reach superior financial power from farming them. NERFED (disclaimer there are still a few cosmos plexes that can be farmed) t2 bpos: been nerfed with invention and you dont make that much isk any longer considering the time invested in market seeding, component building etc etc. even t2 bpos is a time sink and you cant manage that many bpos. alot of the bigger and older alliance founded their power by controlling both t2 bpos and the moons. NERFED moons: once your pos is up there isnt that much of a time sink to manage them and the profit on region worht of moons is just insane. and any alliance that coordinate their moon profits can prolly build a few supercaps including titans each month. STILL TO NERF each isk income needs to be balanced on timesink and risk. the mechanics that alliances can claim a few high end moons and cash in insane isk -> setup cyno jammers-> build a few titans Disclaimer mainly rambling at end of 13h work shift..
Kalanar Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:49:00 - [45] Back in the day, I used to roam around in my nano-titan gang - I thought this was already a reality. Oh well.
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries Ultionis Quietus	Posted - 2008.08.13 16:53:00 - [46] Edited by: Korizan on 13/08/2008 16:55:46 Originally by: Kalanar Back in the day, I used to roam around in my nano-titan gang - I thought this was already a reality. Oh well. Really how fast did you gets your's up to ? I can't seem to get over 614m/s, still it's blisteringly fast
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:02:00 - [47] Edited by: Leviathan9 on 13/08/2008 17:03:44 Originally by: Vladimir Griftin The problem with Titans is they are one button wonders. Two sides each fielding 15 Titans each is an utterly ridiculous scenario. Anything sub-supercapital would be vaporized (without a fight), so your left with 15 Titans on each side unable to kill each other. How much fun does THAT sound? Well, that would be a total 30 Titans, each Titan is going to get 29 DDD worth of dmg, thats around 40,000 x 29 = 1,160,000 dmg. So each Titan would be pretty damaged therefore giving the backup fleets a chance to take the Titans out, and soon if you field too many Titans and if they all DDD together well then they'll wipe out their own Titans, so that would right at the start vaporize everything on grid, Titans included. ----------------------------
oniplE Loving Pirates	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:33:00 - [48] Originally by: Leviathan9 Edited by: Leviathan9 on 13/08/2008 17:03:44 Originally by: Vladimir Griftin The problem with Titans is they are one button wonders. Two sides each fielding 15 Titans each is an utterly ridiculous scenario. Anything sub-supercapital would be vaporized (without a fight), so your left with 15 Titans on each side unable to kill each other. How much fun does THAT sound? Well, that would be a total 30 Titans, each Titan is going to get 29 DDD worth of dmg, thats around 40,000 x 29 = 1,160,000 dmg. So each Titan would be pretty damaged therefore giving the backup fleets a chance to take the Titans out, and soon if you field too many Titans and if they all DDD together well then they'll wipe out their own Titans, so that would right at the start vaporize everything on grid, Titans included. Well, you could fit 50 Erebus with 95% thermal resists and blow up everything without damaging yourself much. Set up your other caps with massive thermal resists and they might survive aswell. x
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:34:00 - [49] Originally by: northwesten Originally by: Abrazzar I always say, have a titan align to a regional capital or it won't be able to online any modules. So the alliances will be limited to one per region they control. Maybe have motherships align to a constellation capital but they would have to be really useful first. This would give sovereignty some more meaning, too. this! Great idea! Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Popperr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:41:00 - [50] Geez relax there's only 48 known Titans in game.

Laila Eldgorn Caldari Certified Household Sweeping Consulting	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:48:00 - [51] I think everyone knew a while back already that one day titans will be overpowered, or well, not titans but DD. Whole idea with DD as a weapon is insane. It would make a sense if it would take ages to go into "doomsday mode" so everyone can escape and then give titan a real weapon for hitting something big, again with very very long assembling and stuff. So only really ******ed ibis might actually get caught with it. Seriously.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.08.13 17:57:00 - [52] If they decided titans were starting to get out of control there are a number of things they could do to increase the rate at which they die without decreasing their power. For example, they could change the DD penalty to prevent warping or they could introduce a capital warp jammer that can tackle a supercap.
Ordais	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: hired goon Originally by: Neesa Corrinne These things WILL ruin the EVE that I know and love without some serious changes, and if those changes aren't made soon, then the people who are currently training to fly one will ***** until they turn blue about having their prize taken from them right when they were able to use it. Don't worry. If there's one thing ccp loves, it's making changes to things. You're already quite vocal - all you need is to get yourself together a little minority and BoB's your uncle! I would be quite happy if my prediction of corporate Titans was wrong. But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months. If you don't think this is a serious problem, then I seriously would like to hear your side of how this will play out. Dont get me wrong guys, but you are all way off. 1. Corporate Titans were a reality back in 2005 already (and i know because 3 ppl of 1 corp i know build the 2nd titan of an alliance i was involved in) 2. 15 Titans to pop carriers? This number has alrady been reached by one entity. 3. 28 to pop dreads, give it 6 months. I never, NEVER, understood how CCP could think that ISK could suffice as a limiting factor. That was just plain stupid.
Savage Roar Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 13/08/2008 13:52:00So the question is; How many DD's does it take to POP a titan ? at least eight.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:10:00 - [55] Another idea... let each Titan only be able to fire off a max of 4 DD's a month. Combine that with giving them fuel requirements like a POS, and now we're talking! However, fuel would have to be well over what a large towers needs. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Ordais I never, NEVER, understood how CCP could think that ISK could suffice as a limiting factor. That was just plain stupid. It's quiteimmersive though, bigger ships, more war, more cash, everyone gets bigger ships and then...come the next stage, T2 titans My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Savage Roar Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Leviathan9 40,000 x 29 = 1,160,000 dmg. a DDD does a lot more than 40k, considering pilot skills, look more like 65k
Savage Roar Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Popperr Geez relax there's only 48 known Titans in game. actually, it's over a hundred now.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:19:00 - [59] You want a good counter for titans? Titan sized shield ships. Same principle, lots of training, big "weapon", but infact it's a very very big and powerful expanded shield. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Resaec Fitsuga	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Sheriff Jones You want a good counter for titans? Titan sized shield ships. Same principle, lots of training, big "weapon", but infact it's a very very big and powerful expanded shield. This gets my vote.



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