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Vladimir Griftin
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:40:00 -
[1]
So, as the game continues on its natural progression, ISK inflation rampantly out of control. The idea of having fleets of Titans isn't that far away.
Seeing triple DD's wipe out entire fleets (Impossible to tank 3 in any sub-capital) is becoming pretty common place.
Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality.
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
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CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:47:00 -
[2]
I would say the sky is falling, but we're flying above it, so... 
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hired goon
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:48:00 -
[3]
Yeah, the defence mechanism was making them so expensive that alliances will generally be able to afford only one.
OH SHI-
-omg-
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Theo Samaritan
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:49:00 -
[4]
Wouldn't the inflation of isk make Titan's more expensive?
I can see your concern but to be honest it will be a while to come. Alot of people have no urge to fly even a mothership let alone a titan, and even those who make an alt for a Titan have a couple years of training to do.
________________________
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Korizan on 13/08/2008 13:52:00
Not sure but one thing I have always wondered about.
Say a fleet of 4 titans jumps in and sets off there DD's
This means every titan receives 3 DD's worth of damage.
So the question is;
How many DD's does it take to POP a titan ?
And most importantly.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a toostie pop ?
Perhaps the owl has the answer to both questions 
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:53:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Korizan
So the question is;
How many DD's does it take to POP a titan ?
More than it takes to pop anything else.
- Infectious - |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/08/2008 13:53:59
Titan fleets have been on the table since they came out "What if there's too many!".
Now, time has passed, and we've yet to see any sign of this.
It's safe to assume, it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
Also you still need the pilots.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Vladimir Griftin
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Posted - 2008.08.13 13:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
Wouldn't the inflation of isk make Titan's more expensive?
I can see your concern but to be honest it will be a while to come. Alot of people have no urge to fly even a mothership let alone a titan, and even those who make an alt for a Titan have a couple years of training to do.
Your wrong, on both counts, ISK inflation means ISK is easier to get, while prices stay largely the same.
An alliance with a researched BPO can make a Titan for about 40 billion. That's not actually that much these days.
Once upon a time, Battleships were considered to be unbelievably overpowered and a fleet of 10 of them would be unstoppable. But they were VERY expensive.. and here we are today.
The logical progression is onto bigger ships so eventually it WILL happen. We already see 7-8 Titans in a single system.
The problem with Titans is they are one button wonders. Two sides each fielding 15 Titans each is an utterly ridiculous scenario. Anything sub-supercapital would be vaporized (without a fight), so your left with 15 Titans on each side unable to kill each other.
How much fun does THAT sound?
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
I'm not entirely sure they did, actually.
It's impossible to balance something entirely around cost because there is no cap for an alliance's ability to build wealth as long as they can defend their space (titans assist in doing that, which doesn't help).
The best solution needs to be the same solution that makes it so alliances can't come up with too many capital ships and carriers (though carriers is arguable in that regard) - they they're ineffective against smaller more numerous ships. A Titan's DDD is more effective against smaller, more numerous ships. They also need to be buffed so that alliances are actually willing to commit them in combat, as that's the only way they're going to be destroyed realistically. Otherwise alliances will just stockpile titans which makes it impossible for any entity without titans (i.e. one not holding 0.0 space) to effectively attack them.
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
Nidda Coldbrew
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
Wouldn't the inflation of isk make Titan's more expensive?
I can see your concern but to be honest it will be a while to come. Alot of people have no urge to fly even a mothership let alone a titan, and even those who make an alt for a Titan have a couple years of training to do.
Your wrong, on both counts, ISK inflation means ISK is easier to get, while prices stay largely the same.
An alliance with a researched BPO can make a Titan for about 40 billion. That's not actually that much these days.
Once upon a time, Battleships were considered to be unbelievably overpowered and a fleet of 10 of them would be unstoppable. But they were VERY expensive.. and here we are today.
The logical progression is onto bigger ships so eventually it WILL happen. We already see 7-8 Titans in a single system.
The problem with Titans is they are one button wonders. Two sides each fielding 15 Titans each is an utterly ridiculous scenario. Anything sub-supercapital would be vaporized (without a fight), so your left with 15 Titans on each side unable to kill each other.
How much fun does THAT sound?
Exactly correct, and spot on. Good post.
Titan fleets are inevitable, at which point CCP will either nerf Titans or introduces another class of ship even more powerful. |
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Nicho Void
Hyper-Nova
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
I'm not entirely sure they did, actually.
It's impossible to balance something entirely around cost because there is no cap for an alliance's ability to build wealth as long as they can defend their space (titans assist in doing that, which doesn't help).
The best solution needs to be the same solution that makes it so alliances can't come up with too many capital ships and carriers (though carriers is arguable in that regard) - they they're ineffective against smaller more numerous ships. A Titan's DDD is more effective against smaller, more numerous ships. They also need to be buffed so that alliances are actually willing to commit them in combat, as that's the only way they're going to be destroyed realistically. Otherwise alliances will just stockpile titans which makes it impossible for any entity without titans (i.e. one not holding 0.0 space) to effectively attack them.
I've heard the argument for a scripted DDD. Nerf the smartbomb effect, add a focused "death star" type ship/pos/anything killing beam, walla! Balance.
Ok, maybe not, but I think it would be interesting.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:15:00 -
[12]
I always say, have a titan align to a regional capital or it won't be able to online any modules. So the alliances will be limited to one per region they control. Maybe have motherships align to a constellation capital but they would have to be really useful first. This would give sovereignty some more meaning, too.
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Abrazzar
I always say, have a titan align to a regional capital or it won't be able to online any modules. So the alliances will be limited to one per region they control. Maybe have motherships align to a constellation capital but they would have to be really useful first. This would give sovereignty some more meaning, too.
this!
Trinity Corporate Services
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GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:24:00 -
[14]
think you will fine more motherships than titans to be honest as there more handy
Quote:
down near the station bio mass plant you can buy burgers that are 5% pork and 95% CRAP
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
ISK inflation means ISK is easier to get, while prices stay largely the same.
Actually, that's the very definition of DEFLATION.
Inflation is when the true value of the currency sinks (too much money, too little goods), and prices go through the roof.
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:26:00 -
[16]
Titans will be nerfed soon because it's impossible to tackle something when 3+ Titans of the same dmg type are on the grid (unless you happen to have an expensive HIC designed to tank just enough of the right type of DDs, like a Devoter for 3 Ragnaroks).
I would imagine that DD's will be nerfed so only 1 can be activated per 30 minutes and system. It's a simple and reasonable change.
Apart from that, they could also add capital tackling mods to the game (e.g. infinipoint for Carriers/MS) or make HICs immune to DD.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Chochos
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: GallenteCitizen20080615
think you will fine more motherships than titans to be honest as there more handy
Motherships are quicker to train for, and a 1/4 of the price.
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:32:00 -
[18]
Simple solution.
Do to the concussion wave from a DD and a titans size.
Setting off a DD in proximity of another Titan will cause structural damage in the amount of the DD.
Do to this being a pressure wave and structural design issue it can't be tanked via adding resistance mods.
THere you go, nothing extreme but it will definitely make people think twice about having multiple Titans on the same grid.
Also provides for a nasty way for titans to fight each other.
Titan's structure goes to 0 they go POP regardless of there shields or armor.
Just a thought.
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Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nicho Void
I've heard the argument for a scripted DDD. Nerf the smartbomb effect, add a focused "death star" type ship/pos/anything killing beam, walla! Balance.
Ok, maybe not, but I think it would be interesting.
I would be fine with this, and it would be a good use for the titan as an anti-capital ship.
Double DDD damage, give it a signature resolution of 1000, and a script that triples of quadruple damage against a single target. 
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Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
oniplE
Loving Pirates
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:38:00 -
[20]
They could use signature radius to influence the damage taken on big ships.
Titans have.. 16000 signature radius right? So make the DDD's do 1 million damage on a signature radius of 16000. Ships with a smaller radius will take a lot less damage, so it wont be overpowered and it will not weaken the DDD weapon.
Could work, i just thought up some numbers so it might need some tweaking :P
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cyboman
Caldari
Mafia Italiana
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:40:00 -
[21]
Somebody do the math... can a Titan withstand a DD from another Titan?
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Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari
Templar Republic
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:43:00 -
[22]
Wouldn't by far the simplest balancing trick be to just have AOE weapons suffer from the same penalties missiles do ?
ie. sig radius and speed affecting how much damage you take.
Ofcourse, if you did this you'd be majorly nerfing the anti-blob effect of a titan, lol
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:57:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Korizan on 13/08/2008 14:58:46
OR you could seriously nerf Titans.
THe only way you can use a DD is with a beacon.
So you need a beacon launcher fitted on a ship. (High Slot)
However there is a catch.
Only directors and CEO's can fit and launch DD beacons.
Beacons can also only be fitted on frigate class vessels.
Give one type a specific bonus to fit them.
Oh and you have to wait for the cloaking effects to wear off as you have to target the Titan you are authorizing to fire the weapon.
There you go problem solved 
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:04:00 -
[24]
I could write a ten page paper about all the different ways Titans could potentially be redesigned, as opposed to just being nerfed in some lame and unimaginative fashion. You don't have to fly a Titan to be able to comment on this issue, as long as you've been in Titan ops (on the giving or receiving end) tbh.
A stop-gap solution might be to simply limit the amount of Titans that an alliance is allowed to have. This however detracts from the sandbox and should not be a permanent fix. I agree with Tarminic somewhat in that I believe Titans need to be redesigned as more out-and-out combat ships so that alliances will have to put them on the front line in order to realize the ship's full potential. DDD's are fine as-is IMHO, but there are areas where they can be improved as well. For instance: SCRIPTS. Many people have pushed for this at one time or another. Have an AOE script and a focused fire script. The focused fire script must be devastating against capital ships to the point of killing a badly tanked one outright with the Doomsday Ops skill at only 3 or 4. Focused fire also would need to cut down on the recharging time (as in, maybe ten minutes between each shot as opposed to an hour.) Coupled with a reduction in logistics capabilities (but maintaining the jump bridge of course) the potential to annihilate Dreads and Carriers with one or two hits would be enough to either:
1. people deciding against building more Titans in favor of building more Dreads to counter enemy Titans.
2. people putting their focused fire Titans on the front line, hoping for the best, and losing them from time to time against enemy cap fleets.
I think some sort of balance would eventually be struck between those two things that would solve the issue of "too many Titans" being in-game.
Now as for the argument that too many Titans means too many DDD's, I have some suggestions for that as well.
1. increase the time before you can cyno a Titan out from a DDD detonation grid. This will ensure that if you want to multi-DDD someone that you're own Titans will continuously be getting hit themselves. Too many DDD's = dead friendly Titans.
2. take away the ability to warp off-grid, in addition to increasing the time before you can cyno out after detonating a DDD. Reason being the same as point 1's.
or, if you really want to do a hard nerf of DDD's:
3. limit the amount of DDD's that can be detonated on the same grid to one per alliance per hour. I don't really support this idea but there you go.
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Polinus
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: cyboman
Somebody do the math... can a Titan withstand a DD from another Titan?
You unable to do subtractions? Well at least you surely has no idea how much HP capital ships have. You need several dozen titans to blow another titan with DDs.
Titans basically means sub capital death.. and absolutely nothing to capital ships.
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Mendolorian Girl
Caldari
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:13:00 -
[26]
Interesting througha bout multiple Titan's nuking another cap fleet.. so I did some dirty maths.
Averageish T2 tanked Dread = 1.9m effective hitpoints
Maximum possible doomsday damage = 70313
1900000/70000 = 28 Doomsday's to "insta" a dread.
Carriers are slightly easier at just 1.1m effective hitpoints and would require ONLY 16 doomsdays.
I should mention taht a half decently tanked Titan would only find itself in 50% armor after 28 Doomsdays.
Of course, it's all moot, because 28 doomsday's all going off at once would not just crash the node, it would probably create a blackhole on earth and kill us all :s
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Vladimir Griftin
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: cyboman
Somebody do the math... can a Titan withstand a DD from another Titan?
You unable to do subtractions? Well at least you surely has no idea how much HP capital ships have. You need several dozen titans to blow another titan with DDs.
Titans basically means sub capital death.. and absolutely nothing to capital ships.
Originally by: cyboman
Somebody do the math... can a Titan withstand a DD from another Titan?
A level 5 DDD will do about 70,000k damage, your average non-buffer tanked Carrier will have about 1 million hitpoints. So 'absolutely nothing' isnt exactly true. It would take 15 Titans to kill a carrier with DD's.
Your average Titan will have what 5 million effective hitpoints?
Having 20 Titans all DD on the same grid would certainly dent the Titans but not enough to worry about.
PS These figures are rough for illustration purposes, but the theory is sound ;)
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Neesa Corrinne
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:16:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Neesa Corrinne on 13/08/2008 15:17:06
I warned against Titans from the very moment I heard about them. I've seen this same trend for bigger and better items in every game I've ever played.
Planetside was a really really fun little infantry/vehicle warfare game for a couple of years... then they decided that BFR's should be released. Gigantic, hulking robots that could kill the biggest tank in the game in two shots and literally stomp infantry flat in one step. These were the ruination of Planetside.
SWG. The game was perfectly fine without PC's being able to play Jedi's. In fact it was still decent when becoming a Jedi was an extraordinarily difficult process. When you could start the game as a Jedi, the game deteriorated quickly.
EVE was perfectly fine without Titans. In fact, EVE was perfectly fine without motherships. Carrier and Dreadnoughts are still being used every single day in EVE for the exact same purposes they were created for... was there really ever any need for a Titan?
One of the first things I told my fellow corp mates when I heard about these ridiculous ships was: These things will be extremely rare for about six months. Then after a year the big alliances will have several of them and they will be used quite frequently, and about two years from now, even dedicated small corporations will be able to field a titan to clear out gate camps with a single button.
These things WILL ruin the EVE that I know and love without some serious changes, and if those changes aren't made soon, then the people who are currently training to fly one will ***** until they turn blue about having their prize taken from them right when they were able to use it.
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hired goon
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
These things WILL ruin the EVE that I know and love without some serious changes, and if those changes aren't made soon, then the people who are currently training to fly one will ***** until they turn blue about having their prize taken from them right when they were able to use it.
Don't worry. If there's one thing ccp loves, it's making changes to things. You're already quite vocal - all you need is to get yourself together a little minority and BoB's your uncle!
-omg-
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:30:00 -
[30]
Definition of too many Titans = one more of what my alliance can field.
BTW: isk available has little influence on the number of Titans, what make the difference is : number of trained (and willing) pilots, number of people willing to get the minerals, number of trained builders for the components. All 3 numbers are constantly climbing.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:35:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months.
Corporations with personnal Titans.
Already in the game.
But then again you have 1000+ character corporations, what did you expect.
There are only 24 alliances as of today that have more then 1000 members
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Neesa Corrinne
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months.
Corporations with personnal Titans.
Already in the game.
But then again you have 1000+ character corporations, what did you expect.
There are only 24 alliances as of today that have more then 1000 members
I see what you are saying, but maybe I should have been more clear on this point. 1000 member corporations are really just miniature alliances.
I was talking about the more traditional, ~200 man corporations. When they start owning personal titans without the backing of an alliance, then the game will truly start sliding downhill.
Training any ship in the game will just be a stepping stone to training capital ships, cause who will want to fly a HAC when everyone has a Nyx?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Titans will be nerfed soon because it's impossible to tackle something when 3+ Titans of the same dmg type are on the grid (unless you happen to have an expensive HIC designed to tank just enough of the right type of DDs, like a Devoter for 3 Ragnaroks).
I would imagine that DD's will be nerfed so only 1 can be activated per 30 minutes and system. It's a simple and reasonable change.
Apart from that, they could also add capital tackling mods to the game (e.g. infinipoint for Carriers/MS) or make HICs immune to DD.
[sarcasm] Great Idea, so I fire mine, you can't fire yours for ne next half hour and my fleet is safe. [/sarcasm]
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Nidda Coldbrew
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:56:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
I was talking about the more traditional, ~200 man corporations. When they start owning personal titans without the backing of an alliance, then the game will truly start sliding downhill.
As long as you are talking about 200 man corp's that are part of an alliance, but have their own personal titan's that the alliance has no claim on, then that's already has happened.
I don't know of any stand alone, non-alliance, 200 man corps with their own titan's, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's inevitable. |
Drunk Driver
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:58:00 -
[35]
Suicide titans in Jita!
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:03:00 -
[36]
I reality Alliances don't own anything.
The corporations own it.
The corporations are the real power in an alliance.
An alliance is nothing more then a name and an association
A 200 man alliance with 20 corporations will get wiped by a 200 man corporation any day of the week.
And all you have to do is look at the history of 0.0 for proof.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Definition of too many Titans = one more of what my alliance can field.
So... one Titan is one titan too many ? 
_
THE APPRENTICE || mineral balance || nanofix
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:14:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
So, as the game continues on its natural progression, ISK inflation rampantly out of control. The idea of having fleets of Titans isn't that far away.
Seeing triple DD's wipe out entire fleets (Impossible to tank 3 in any sub-capital) is becoming pretty common place.
Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality.
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
if that ever happened CCP wld respond with nasty wrath and nerf the titan pilots to hell n back for being so naughty
poudly annoying fc's since 2007
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123
caldari drone boat enthusiast |
Jen Takhesis
Vanguard Venture
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:20:00 -
[39]
Buff titans offensively and defensively, but don't allow them to ever log out. If the corp/alliance can't/doesn't pilot it 23/7, then it just sits there empty waiting to be stolen or destroyed.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:26:00 -
[40]
What about making all Titan's undergo an upkeep fee. Alliances will have to consider their isk to keep their Titan's running. Once a Titan is built, it will cost you 'X' amount of isk a month just to keep it tuned up and running. I'd even go as far as implementing this with ALL capital ships. No longer can you just build it and fly it... you must upkeep it.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
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Tiirae
The New Era
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:38:00 -
[41]
One of the problems with Titans is their multipurpose nature; they would be worth buying if they were just a mobile jump bridge with no offense at all.
I think they should be split into 3 different ships:
- Mobile jumpbridge. Huge, vulnerable ship that can launch entire fleets through it's jump portal. No fittings at all, similar to freighters.
- Capital command ship. Dread-sized ship with the huge gang bonuses that titans currently have.
- DD-launcher. Some sort of ship whose only purpose is to carry and launch a doomsday. Possibly the ship always dies after one DD goes off.
I'm sure plenty of debate could be had about how exactly to do the split and what sort of ships we would get as a result, and how to go about stopping blobs of DD ships... but I think the basic idea is sound. Titan can simply do too much atm.
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Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:40:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 13/08/2008 16:43:38
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
What about making all Titan's undergo an upkeep fee. Alliances will have to consider their isk to keep their Titan's running. Once a Titan is built, it will cost you 'X' amount of isk a month just to keep it tuned up and running. I'd even go as far as implementing this with ALL capital ships. No longer can you just build it and fly it... you must upkeep it.
Requiring a constant fuel upkeep for Titans a la POS control towers actually isn't a bad idea. No fuel = no module function, and of course there are modules like the DDD and abilities like cyno jumping that need fuel of their own already. I wouldn't personally want to extend this same requirement to Moms or other capital ships, but it would work on a Titan. However, I'd prefer that Titans receive a bit of a buff in some places and reconfiguring in others before adding the fuel requirement.
Originally by: Tiirae
- DD-launcher. Some sort of ship whose only purpose is to carry and launch a doomsday. Possibly the ship always dies after one DD goes off.
This would get spammed to insane levels. One of the things that makes people think twice about how they use DDD's is the fact that the Titan is extremely vulnerable for at least ten minutes after it fires due to the cyno ability being switched off for that time. If you had disposable Doomsday ships then:
1. if they were too expensive they'd never be used
2. if they weren't too expensive then everyone capable of building them would spam them into every cap fleet it encountered. I'm all for chaos in this game but... I mean there's got to be a more elegant solution to the cap blob issue (if there really is an issue there.)
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Nicho Void
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
I'm not entirely sure they did, actually.
It's impossible to balance something entirely around cost because there is no cap for an alliance's ability to build wealth as long as they can defend their space (titans assist in doing that, which doesn't help).
The best solution needs to be the same solution that makes it so alliances can't come up with too many capital ships and carriers (though carriers is arguable in that regard) - they they're ineffective against smaller more numerous ships. A Titan's DDD is more effective against smaller, more numerous ships. They also need to be buffed so that alliances are actually willing to commit them in combat, as that's the only way they're going to be destroyed realistically. Otherwise alliances will just stockpile titans which makes it impossible for any entity without titans (i.e. one not holding 0.0 space) to effectively attack them.
I've heard the argument for a scripted DDD. Nerf the smartbomb effect, add a focused "death star" type ship/pos/anything killing beam, walla! Balance.
Ok, maybe not, but I think it would be interesting.
Interesting? A script would just add more polyvalence to the DDD, not nerf it's power, since you'd still have the area of effect mode.
It would also do nothing to prevent a pure titan fleet to eventually be invulnerable to anything but another titan fleet.
To be honest, I think CCP shot itself on the foot when they decided a grid-large wtfpwning weapon would be a good addition to a MMO, and didn't think much about effects past the "Big Boom" factor. Somewhere down the coming months, DDD will have to be removed, there will be no other solution.
Thinking an activation timer would be enough of a nerf to keep it balanced was a case of wishfull thinking, and didn't take lag into account.
Thinking cost would keep their number down to an handfull was a case of wishfull thinking, and didn't take into account that Eve is a MMO, not a solo RTS game where progress is reset after the next session.
As for the possibility for remote-activation, we already saw just how screwed up it could be, and it got nerfed.
We're now at the point where one alliance have 15-20 titans, and a whole lot of others have more than 3. While the "titan fleet wtfpwning dread fleet" event hasn't happened yet, it's only a matter of weeks or months before it does happen. CCP has best thinking about something preemptive now, rather than after the fact.
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Nyack
GREY COUNCIL
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:45:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Nyack on 13/08/2008 16:46:24
well think one step further.. why does these alliances afford to build this many super caps-> complexes, t2 bpos and moons.
static complexes:
in the beginning these were one of the main assets of 0.0 claiming alliances and alliance could reach superior financial power from farming them. NERFED (disclaimer there are still a few cosmos plexes that can be farmed)
t2 bpos:
been nerfed with invention and you dont make that much isk any longer considering the time invested in market seeding, component building etc etc. even t2 bpos is a time sink and you cant manage that many bpos. alot of the bigger and older alliance founded their power by controlling both t2 bpos and the moons. NERFED
moons:
once your pos is up there isnt that much of a time sink to manage them and the profit on region worht of moons is just insane. and any alliance that coordinate their moon profits can prolly build a few supercaps including titans each month. STILL TO NERF
each isk income needs to be balanced on timesink and risk. the mechanics that alliances can claim a few high end moons and cash in insane isk -> setup cyno jammers-> build a few titans
Disclaimer mainly rambling at end of 13h work shift..
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Kalanar
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:49:00 -
[45]
Back in the day, I used to roam around in my nano-titan gang - I thought this was already a reality. Oh well.
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 16:53:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Korizan on 13/08/2008 16:55:46
Originally by: Kalanar
Back in the day, I used to roam around in my nano-titan gang - I thought this was already a reality. Oh well.
Really how fast did you gets your's up to ?
I can't seem to get over 614m/s, still it's blisteringly fast
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Leviathan9
Gallente
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:02:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 13/08/2008 17:03:44
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
The problem with Titans is they are one button wonders. Two sides each fielding 15 Titans each is an utterly ridiculous scenario. Anything sub-supercapital would be vaporized (without a fight), so your left with 15 Titans on each side unable to kill each other.
How much fun does THAT sound?
Well, that would be a total 30 Titans, each Titan is going to get 29 DDD worth of dmg, thats around 40,000 x 29 = 1,160,000 dmg. So each Titan would be pretty damaged therefore giving the backup fleets a chance to take the Titans out, and soon if you field too many Titans and if they all DDD together well then they'll wipe out their own Titans, so that would right at the start vaporize everything on grid, Titans included.
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oniplE
Loving Pirates
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Leviathan9
Edited by: Leviathan9 on 13/08/2008 17:03:44
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
The problem with Titans is they are one button wonders. Two sides each fielding 15 Titans each is an utterly ridiculous scenario. Anything sub-supercapital would be vaporized (without a fight), so your left with 15 Titans on each side unable to kill each other.
How much fun does THAT sound?
Well, that would be a total 30 Titans, each Titan is going to get 29 DDD worth of dmg, thats around 40,000 x 29 = 1,160,000 dmg. So each Titan would be pretty damaged therefore giving the backup fleets a chance to take the Titans out, and soon if you field too many Titans and if they all DDD together well then they'll wipe out their own Titans, so that would right at the start vaporize everything on grid, Titans included.
Well, you could fit 50 Erebus with 95% thermal resists and blow up everything without damaging yourself much.
Set up your other caps with massive thermal resists and they might survive aswell.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: northwesten
Originally by: Abrazzar
I always say, have a titan align to a regional capital or it won't be able to online any modules. So the alliances will be limited to one per region they control. Maybe have motherships align to a constellation capital but they would have to be really useful first. This would give sovereignty some more meaning, too.
this!
Great idea!
Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Popperr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:41:00 -
[50]
Geez relax there's only 48 known Titans in game.
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Laila Eldgorn
Caldari
Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:48:00 -
[51]
I think everyone knew a while back already that one day titans will be overpowered, or well, not titans but DD. Whole idea with DD as a weapon is insane. It would make a sense if it would take ages to go into "doomsday mode" so everyone can escape and then give titan a real weapon for hitting something big, again with very very long assembling and stuff. So only really ******ed ibis might actually get caught with it. Seriously.
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:57:00 -
[52]
If they decided titans were starting to get out of control there are a number of things they could do to increase the rate at which they die without decreasing their power.
For example, they could change the DD penalty to prevent warping or they could introduce a capital warp jammer that can tackle a supercap.
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Ordais
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
These things WILL ruin the EVE that I know and love without some serious changes, and if those changes aren't made soon, then the people who are currently training to fly one will ***** until they turn blue about having their prize taken from them right when they were able to use it.
Don't worry. If there's one thing ccp loves, it's making changes to things. You're already quite vocal - all you need is to get yourself together a little minority and BoB's your uncle!
I would be quite happy if my prediction of corporate Titans was wrong.
But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months.
If you don't think this is a serious problem, then I seriously would like to hear your side of how this will play out.
Dont get me wrong guys, but you are all way off.
1. Corporate Titans were a reality back in 2005 already (and i know because 3 ppl of 1 corp i know build the 2nd titan of an alliance i was involved in)
2. 15 Titans to pop carriers? This number has alrady been reached by one entity.
3. 28 to pop dreads, give it 6 months.
I never, NEVER, understood how CCP could think that ISK could suffice as a limiting factor. That was just plain stupid.
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Savage Roar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:08:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Korizan
Edited by: Korizan on 13/08/2008 13:52:00So the question is;
How many DD's does it take to POP a titan ?
at least eight.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:10:00 -
[55]
Another idea... let each Titan only be able to fire off a max of 4 DD's a month.
Combine that with giving them fuel requirements like a POS, and now we're talking! However, fuel would have to be well over what a large towers needs.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:11:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ordais
I never, NEVER, understood how CCP could think that ISK could suffice as a limiting factor. That was just plain stupid.
It's quiteimmersive though, bigger ships, more war, more cash, everyone gets bigger ships and then...come the next stage, T2 titans
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Savage Roar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Leviathan9
40,000 x 29 = 1,160,000 dmg.
a DDD does a lot more than 40k, considering pilot skills, look more like 65k
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Savage Roar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Popperr
Geez relax there's only 48 known Titans in game.
actually, it's over a hundred now.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:19:00 -
[59]
You want a good counter for titans?
Titan sized shield ships.
Same principle, lots of training, big "weapon", but infact it's a very very big and powerful expanded shield.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Resaec Fitsuga
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:23:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
You want a good counter for titans?
Titan sized shield ships.
Same principle, lots of training, big "weapon", but infact it's a very very big and powerful expanded shield.
This gets my vote.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:28:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 13/08/2008 18:28:04
The only thing at all that is problematic about Titans, regardless of how many are around in the game is the DDD. Doomsdays should never have been added into this game. There is absolutely nothing about it that is good at all (not they don't prevent "blobs", they make them a must), and they unbalance the game in so many ways.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:38:00 -
[62]
when titan population will grow big enough to be a problem, there will be at least 2 hundreds of motherships and most of 2005 ppl will be on a capital ship and probably have enough isk to start thinking about a mommyship.
that won't be an issue, until CCP decides to deploy more and more capital-sized vessels type.
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Originally by: Crumplecorn
Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Savage Roar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 18:42:00 -
[63]
OR you could just make the DDD "unstable" and it will have a % chance of "backfiring" and disabling the titan's navigation capabilities (all of them, jump and warp and flight) for 30 minutes or so. make it low, like 2% or so, but increases by 2% with each successive titan in the system... so if you have 24 titans in a system there's only a 50/50 chance they'll be able to fly off after DDDing... that would go a long way to decrease using them for ddd-spam... and a counter to ddd-spam would be to bring your own titans into a system and just leave them there to increase the total count lol...
alternatively, add in a timer, not on the ship, but in each grid. only one ddd per 2 minutes allowed... i can see that working too...
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sinqlaison
Amarr
Capital Builders Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 19:47:00 -
[64]
Edited by: sinqlaison on 13/08/2008 19:47:49
I am sure it will happen soon, as titans sell well (sold 2 this week). Wait no further as doom will hit you, expand your fleet today Titan packages
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Xioden Acap
Lightspeed Enterprises
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.08.13 20:08:00 -
[65]
I wonder if it would be better if titans were basically a mobile outpost. Forget the whole "Dooms day device" give them a medical bay and a butt load of hanger space for ships that people can grab after getting blown up.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
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Posted - 2008.08.13 21:15:00 -
[66]
In a complex system certain parts of the system will reach equilibrium.
Looking at the Titans as part of the complex system that EVE-online represents, what we see is that not enough time has lapsed for an equilibrium to be established.
It is anyones guess where that equilibrium lies, but already many players, me among them, are worried that the Titan equilibrium lies somewhere where it is not desirable (i.e. breaks the game).
One way of reaching an equilibrium is through economic means, but without daily maintenance for having Titans, my idea is that the number of Titans will be such that it wealthy alliances will be able to maintain so many Titans that none-wealthy alliances will never be able to catch up. Furthermore, establishing equilibrium through economic means is both difficult to achieve and easy to disestablish. Meaning that even with a daily maintenance for Titans, the equilibrium could be or could over time become unsuited to the environment.
This leaves warfare. Although this is not an easier means to establish equilibrium, it is more direct, and therefore more easy to control. What I'm talking about is establishing a balance based on the means to build Titans and the ease of their destruction. One could argue that this balance is currently out of wack. In a way, Titans are too easy to maintain in relation to the effort needed to destroy one.
There are two ways to go about this, both are a nerf, and therefore, both will be unwelcome (i.e. lead to the Whambulance). One is to make Titans more difficult to manufacture and maintain, thus giving the alliances that already have done so an unfair advantage (again). Another is to make Titans easier to destroy, thus upsetting the alliances that went through the trouble of making them (who are not without influence).
The long and the short is that neither solution exposed above will make CCP very popular. Yet it is a choice they have to make. I personally don't envy the devs that have to make it. Unfortunately, the longer the solution is delayed, the worse the problem will become.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:03:00 -
[67]
When big mice become a major problem CCP will just invent a bigger mouse trap.
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Solid Trust
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:12:00 -
[68]
I think CCP should do nothing now so a lot more people can be trained on the Titan and spend the billions to buy it. Then when everyone has them and it is this huge problem THEN they nerf the crap out of it. Then tell them to all stop whining and and that they need to adapt or die.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:15:00 -
[69]
I think between now and christmas, we'll see an alliance able to field enough titans to kill dreadnoughts and carriers instantly.
Won't that be fun?
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:39:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Richard Angevian on 13/08/2008 22:40:52
Fleets of titans are inevitable, just as everyone eventually becoming a Jedi in old SWG was.
When you make something clearly far better than everything else in a MMO, eventually it will become common, no matter how expensive it is, no matter how hard or long it takes to achieve it, because it will become everyone's goal.
Even third rate alliances are fielding titans now. Bear in mind that dreads and carriers once were the rare playthings of the superpowers too.
Which is why a titan nerf is inevitable. Which is sad. But it's the way incompetent devs always take out of a problem of their own making, punish the players rather than deal with their mistake. What needs to happen to titans is obvious, but I can guarantee you that it will NOT be the way CCP takes: Nerf multiple DD's in one system, and... INCREASE the power of the DD! That way a single titan is even more devastating than it is today (though those who fit for DD should still survive it) but there will be no more of this 3 titans on the field bullshit. Superpowers will still have the advantage in that they will have more of them and will be more able to risk them in a fight, but in any one system in any single engagement, two sides that own titans will be even.
Changes needed:
Multiple DD nerf: After a single DD has been fired, no other titan may fire one until the cooldown on that one is over.
"Siege" mode for titan: Titans fit a seige module and MUST go into "siege mode" which will increase DD strength (and defenses) by 50%, or else suffer a -50% penalty in DD strength.
What CCP will do: Nerf DD by 50%, thus ushering in the need to bring 10 titans to the field. Certain alliances will be able to do this and the change, ostensibly for the "little guy" will just further unbalance things in favor of the supercap heavy superpowers.
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:39:00 -
[71]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Won't that be fun?
Titans online? 
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Mo adib
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:49:00 -
[72]
tbh I think they already have the idea on what the counter to titans is.
or atleast I hope so and am hoping that scene in the empyrean age trailer where a bs squad has some kind of combined anti capital weapon.
in any case its one of the posible ways to do it, obviously not going so far as to have an abaddon one shot a whole cap fleet but giving traditional ships a new fitout possibility that allows them to counter titans.
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Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:55:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Richard Angevian on 13/08/2008 22:55:40
Originally by: Mo adib
tbh I think they already have the idea on what the counter to titans is.
or atleast I hope so and am hoping that scene in the empyrean age trailer where a bs squad has some kind of combined anti capital weapon.
in any case its one of the posible ways to do it, obviously not going so far as to have an abaddon one shot a whole cap fleet but giving traditional ships a new fitout possibility that allows them to counter titans.
How about some sort of warfare link module that would allow a fleet of battleships to combine their ship's powergrids to fire off a combined superweapon?
Shouldn't be as strong as a DD, but it'd be a helluva alternative to building and fielding titans.
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Clone 231E
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:55:00 -
[74]
Yes, fleets are already getting pretty close to that alpha of caps. I agree that by christmas it will be possible.
CCP will nerf titans, and most likely the utility of capitals too sometime. When CCP nerfs something, they nerf the crap out of it.
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Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:57:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Clone 231E
Yes, fleets are already getting pretty close to that alpha of caps. I agree that by christmas it will be possible.
CCP will nerf titans, and most likely the utility of capitals too sometime. When CCP nerfs something, they nerf the crap out of it.
Yep. When they nerf, the overnerf. It's easier to destroy something, than to find a creative solution to the problem.
They must teach this in Dev school, becuase it's not only how CCP operates, it's the way of EVERY MMO publisher out there.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus
Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:28:00 -
[76]
I've said it dozens of times and I will say it dozens more:
Limit the number of DDD's that can happen per x amount of time.
IE, only two DD's may be set off on one grid per 10 minutes.
Originally by: Amoxin
My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.08.14 00:13:00 -
[77]
Doomsday weapon always was a daft idea.
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.08.14 00:41:00 -
[78]
Stop whining like little babies.
Titans have very balanced game mechanics.
HEH!
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Vladimir Griftin
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Posted - 2008.08.14 00:54:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Titans have very balanced game mechanics.HEH!
Balanced like a duck .. its a fair cop
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Neesa Corrinne
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.08.14 01:42:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
When big mice become a major problem CCP will just invent a bigger mouse trap.
No offense man, but this is absolutely the wrong approach. It's the entire reason that we're in the position with titans that we are.
Dev 1: We need something to combat Carriers
Dev 2: How about motherships?
Dev 1: BRILLIANT!
1 year later
Dev 1: We need something to combat Motherships.
Dev 2: How about Titans?
Dev 1: BRILLIANT!
1 year from now
Dev 1: We need something to combat Titans
Dev 2: How about Super-Mega-Tokyo-Violence-Titans?
Dev 1: BRILLIANT!
Escalation is the WRONG approach.
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Washinome Igarashi
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.14 01:51:00 -
[81]
I admit to being a n00b and knowing absolutely nothing, but wouldn't the counter to the DD weapon be to close with your enemy as quickly as possible so that he cannot bring the weapon to bear, or is the DD weapon so lame that it only hits hostiles and not friendlies in the area of affect?
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Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.08.14 01:51:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Dev 1: We need something to combat Carriers
Dev 2: How about motherships?
Dev 1: BRILLIANT!
Interesting I wasn't around when carriers or motherships came out but by reading the description you would think motherships came out first.
Thanatos -Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of the Nyx, Federation Navy authorities commissioned the design of the Thanatos. Designed to act primarily as a fighter carrier for small- to mid-scale engagements, its significant defensive capabilities and specially-fitted fighter bays make it ideal for its intended purpose.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.14 02:07:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
So, as the game continues on its natural progression, ISK inflation rampantly out of control. The idea of having fleets of Titans isn't that far away.
Seeing triple DD's wipe out entire fleets (Impossible to tank 3 in any sub-capital) is becoming pretty common place.
Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality.
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
Devoter, Damnation pilots would disagree with you.
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I smack just for myself.
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Marya Sklodowska
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Posted - 2008.08.14 03:27:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Korizan
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Dev 1: We need something to combat Carriers
Dev 2: How about motherships?
Dev 1: BRILLIANT!
Interesting I wasn't around when carriers or motherships came out but by reading the description you would think motherships came out first.
Thanatos -Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of the Nyx, Federation Navy authorities commissioned the design of the Thanatos. Designed to act primarily as a fighter carrier for small- to mid-scale engagements, its significant defensive capabilities and specially-fitted fighter bays make it ideal for its intended purpose.
They actually got introduced to the game at the same time.
-----------------------------------
Raivi's Research Alt
-Explosion Matrix-
Support Sarmaul's MWD MKII |
P'XEL
Demonocracy
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Posted - 2008.08.14 08:24:00 -
[85]
Together with walking about on stations include: Boarding parties for capturing/crippling titans :)
Maybe take over parts of the ship, like a weapon system, navigation, etc
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.08.14 08:40:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality.
What difference does it make whether the dreads are in seige or not? If anything the fact the dreads cant warp away makes them more susceptible. The truth is no-one would be insane enough to put 15 titans on the feild together, they would all die and that is almost certainly the most massive defeat anyone has ever had. Imagine coming across 30 titans who had already shot their load? Awesome lol.
If you are worried about 15 titans killing your seiging dreads, all you need to do is have half your dreads out of seige out of dd range with some hics. If the enemy is stupid enough to attemp to dd your dreads, they will all die when the second half of your fleet warps to them.
If you are worried about 15 titans hot-dropping your carrier, why aren't you worried about 15 dreads doing so?
All ccp needs to do to keep titans balanced is to increase the cool down time of the dd as titans become more common. They will probably never become that common anyway, and if they do it will only be because people aren't risking them in combat, in which case where is the problem?
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Sannah Ur
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:03:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Your wrong, on both counts, ISK inflation means ISK is easier to get, while prices stay largely the same.
No. By definition, inflation means the currenty becomes worth less so prices rise. A typical inflation of a western country is around 2%, so that means that something that costs a 100ISK one year, costs 102 ISK the next year, only because the currency is worth less. That ship prices are dropping isn't inflation, it's because mineral prices are dropping.
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:12:00 -
[88]
Ideas which would make titans more vulnerable:
Make it so they can't be remote repped while in cooldown from firing the DD. - Makes titans even more of a one-shot pony and pretty much useless in situations where titans should be involved (massive fleet battles/seiges), while in no way limiting the people who hot drop roaming gangs.
Make it that they can't move during the cool-down time. - My favourite, even the number of dreads required to kill a cap fleet is going to think twice of doing it if they are then stuck there unable to DD when the enemy comes back in new ships.
Make the DD more expensive to use. - self explanatory tbh
Make pos be able to tackle titans (maybe with a new battery?) - People are much less likely to dd cap ships if a pos can hold them there after.
Make it that they can't cloak during cooldown. - its stupid that they can do this.
Reduce the range of the DD. - Titan has to get close to the enemy and is therefore at risk from anything that survives the dd, or anything that warps in to tackle post DD
Reduce the damage of the DD. - Means you need more titans to kill stuff. Simply reducing the damage as titans become more popular would keep the total damage potential similar.
Impose a DD to grid limit. - Unatural limit i dont much like, but which would limit titans to what i think is their intended role.
Make seiged dreads/triaged carrier/moms immune - they are the only ships which cant warp away, so seems fair and is probably easily explained from an rp perspective.
Link doomsdays to cynos - no doomsdays in cyno-jammed systems.
Impose a limit on DDing people inside anchorable bubbles. Currently the only time bs can't escape a DD is when they jump into a system covered by a large bubble or 2, in which case they will be dead before they could ever escape.
I think any one of these could suitably disuade people from titan blobbing.
The truth is sub-bs can always warp out from a dd, and even cap ships can do so if aligned. DD is if anything rather hard to pull off and requires skill (if not on the part of the titan pilot then definately on the part of cov-ops and dictor pilots). The consequences of missing with a DD are high, the consequences of missing with 15 even higher. In the current laggy environment the first titan would probably be dead before the 8th titans DD had an effect anyway.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:26:00 -
[89]
Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
These things WILL ruin the EVE that I know and love without some serious changes, and if those changes aren't made soon, then the people who are currently training to fly one will ***** until they turn blue about having their prize taken from them right when they were able to use it.
Don't worry. If there's one thing ccp loves, it's making changes to things. You're already quite vocal - all you need is to get yourself together a little minority and BoB's your uncle!
The Irony is strong in this one.
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Deira Lenia
The Chaotic Order
Void.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:49:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
I would be quite happy if my prediction of corporate Titans was wrong.
But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months.
You are being corrected on this.
Corporate owned titans have been in existance for awile. People leave alliances sometimes you know?
Seeing it only costs me 41b to produce a Avatar, and a odd what, 10B for the fittings. If someone has a array spare for a few weeks i'd love to put this fatteh into production.
TITANS FOR EVERYONE!
The biggest thing that has been stopping corporate titans is the sov requirement on the array which is impossible to get without a alliance. The alliances that do have the required sov are usualy too afraid to build one or dont have the assets/numbers to defend one. This also stops smaller corps/alliances from getting a titan from 2 weeks of continuesly mining. Because they dont want to produce for others, and tbh. I'd never give 50b+ of stuff to someone, even if they would be my neighbours in RL.
So, anyone with a spare array that could produce this ***** in my hangar? We've been mining for days now!
--
Real men corpse tank
Void Forums
The Chaotic Order Forums |
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Ordais
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:56:00 -
[91]
For all who dont know the background of titns (seen many posts from ppl who dont know):
Titans were always planned, already back in beta. Big station-like ships who have a clone bay and can transport lot of equipment so that you can operate inside enemy territory.
Then, one morning, must have been 1 month before release of Titans (maye earlier, the devblog got posted 1 month before), a dev weaks up with a brilliant idea: give it a system-DD. Be glad that they reduced it back to a "grid" (250km).
So, the titan got converted from a logistic tool into a mega-smartbomb. Clone-bay was too small to be of value, cargo was too small for enough equipment. All you got was a big stargate with a DD. And it was even stronger then today, remote DDs where you could do it from a safespot ;)
Ok now to the balancing:
Artificial limits are a nogo, because you can exploit them. Lets say you make timers on grids/systems: then i put my titan in there and every time i can i DD on a safespot / grid, only to prevent the enemy to do it. And no, a DD is really not expensive, thats no limit.
DD should be converted from damage to EW-effects, or convert it from smartbomb to megaturret so you use it against other caps (something with big damage over time and cooldown). This way the ship has to be on grid.
But i dont believe it, experience shows that they will come up with some strange counter ship even more expensive even more skill intensive...whatever
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Neesa Corrinne
Dark Destiny Inc.
Send More Paramedics
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Posted - 2008.08.14 10:28:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
I would be quite happy if my prediction of corporate Titans was wrong.
But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months.
You are being corrected on this.
Corporate owned titans have been in existance for awile. People leave alliances sometimes you know?
Seeing it only costs me 41b to produce a Avatar, and a odd what, 10B for the fittings. If someone has a array spare for a few weeks i'd love to put this fatteh into production.
TITANS FOR EVERYONE!
The biggest thing that has been stopping corporate titans is the sov requirement on the array which is impossible to get without a alliance. The alliances that do have the required sov are usualy too afraid to build one or dont have the assets/numbers to defend one. This also stops smaller corps/alliances from getting a titan from 2 weeks of continuesly mining. Because they dont want to produce for others, and tbh. I'd never give 50b+ of stuff to someone, even if they would be my neighbours in RL.
So, anyone with a spare array that could produce this ***** in my hangar? We've been mining for days now!
I can't stand corrected on something that will take place in the future.
It's not my fault that you haven't made the right friends in this game. Friends who would let you set up your own array in their space for a fee and start construction.
Please keep in mind that this is a sandbox environment. If they give us a new ship to build and fly, then there's really no holding back anyone who wants to build it and fly it if they manage their resources well, and resources doesn't simply mean gobs of ISK. This game is a very political creature as well.
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Deira Lenia
The Chaotic Order
Void.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 10:43:00 -
[93]
I bring you... The past.
Quote:
Non-Alliance:
Spangie [Section31] Leviathan
Wotankn <TS> Erebus
Elo Knight [IGNIT] Levithan (Info given by IC person. Some say he can't fly Titan.)
Trex Y [NPC] Avatar (Oort's alt)
viper zulu [PAR] <> Erebus
Original Post
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=784827
Dont know who Spangie is. Wotankn was D2's pilot if i recall right (he already died once). Elo knight seems fake. Trex Y apparently is Oort's alt so build by RA. Viper Zulu, god knows. but i know he's alive somewhere.
Also, you cant anchor a cap array unless you have sov in the system.
This means that the corporation willing to build one has to join the alliance that has Sov in the area. Once in production. Your going through 7 weeks of hell in the hope no spies reveal its build location, and a stronger alliance passing by to tear it down before completion.
I still wonder what "political" sense you mean there, Apart from my "friends" blackmailing to use the thing for their purposes. Which is exactly what politicans do right?
--
Real men corpse tank
Void Forums
The Chaotic Order Forums |
Terror Rising
Death Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2008.08.14 10:44:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Terror Rising on 14/08/2008 10:45:41
Edited by: Terror Rising on 14/08/2008 10:45:35
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
I would be quite happy if my prediction of corporate Titans was wrong.
But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months.
There are corporation that already do, in fact there are people with personal titans (which I admit is dumb) but where there is a business and people have the isk then you can buy one (with a bit of difficulty, but you can).
Oh and BTW that Non-Alliance list is horrificly incomplete.
(And yes I am an alt)
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:07:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Darth Felin on 14/08/2008 11:06:49
Originally by: Popperr
Geez relax there's only 48 known Titans in game.
As I remember last count was 60 or 70 KNOWN Titans in game.
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Max Teranous
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:14:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Doddy
The truth is sub-bs can always warp out from a dd, and even cap ships can do so if aligned.
That's total rubbish and you know it. Add a bit of lag and you're toast before your warp drive activates.
Max 
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Teladi Gain
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:24:00 -
[97]
Make titans require maintain fee like offices do ? Let's say if a titan would cost X/month isk to maintain and large alliance profit is Y/month then no of the alliances will ever have more then Y/X titans in general as they need money for other stuff too. This will also prevent unused and private titans that people have without actually using them. Moreover in eve, isk = power in many cases. Such scenario empowers that.
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:42:00 -
[98]
maximum of 1 titan per alliance in a sytem at a time
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:46:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Lorz0r
maximum of 1 titan per alliance in a sytem at a time
I think this may kill the 'sandbox' element of the game.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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fairimear
Gallente
S.A.S
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:48:00 -
[100]
Edited by: fairimear on 14/08/2008 11:51:04
Titans have 2 problems.
They are actually sucky at what they do. The range of the jump bridge is a major issue.
And secondly they are to god dam easy to get hold of.
ways to fix titan numbers:
1.Remove cyno jammers so that bob can gank titan making poses. (problem with this is that only bob and Ra will have titans in future).
2. increase built requirements 10fold. (existing titans are lucky to have cost less) (harsh on people planning them now).
3. increase the skills required to fly them every 4 months.
4. sov 4 in system is required for 3 months before a titan can be built (once again this makes it easy for bob but hard for every 1 else)
5. cap titans at 4 per alliance. 1 per corp. (not gona help as you will just get alt alliances).
6. require npc standings will the titan race from the build corp at +9.5 for the entire build time or construction gets paused. (will limit a corp to building 2 of 4 titans and add a slight delay to building of future titans) probably not enough alone.
combine 6. 5 and 4 + double cost of titan construction would be my choice.
At the same time limit dd detonations to 4 per hour in 1 grid.
+ triple titan jump range and bridge.
add 20 fighters and quadruple the corp hanger and ship storage.
Titans all of a sudden become a offensive logistical weapon.
they are suitably hard to get but suitably worth the effort.
And the DD becomes a tool for defense situations.
Makeing your npc hunters SS. |
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Lorz0r
You're Doing It Wrong
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:51:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Franga
Originally by: Lorz0r
maximum of 1 titan per alliance in a sytem at a time
I think this may kill the 'sandbox' element of the game.
hardly.
im just proposing something along those lines, not specifically that
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Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:41:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Lorz0r
maximum of 1 titan per alliance in a sytem at a time
Won't work. The super rich will just form "Alliance Titan 2", "Alliance Titan 3", etc.
Trivial for alliances rich enough to field multiple titans to do.
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The Wounded
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:41:00 -
[103]
Nice a titan mining OP with 30 titans killing roids
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:42:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Originally by: Lorz0r
maximum of 1 titan per alliance in a sytem at a time
Won't work. The super rich will just form "Alliance Titan 2", "Alliance Titan 3", etc.
Trivial for alliances rich enough to field multiple titans to do.
And that's why I keep saying one Titan per region capital controlled. 
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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Zhenga
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Posted - 2008.08.14 12:46:00 -
[105]
Just remove Titans from the game. The people who have invested in them will have to suck it up as an isk sink.
Or
Remove the ability to build more, and let the ones that are around stay. They will not be used much knowing they can not be replaced. The ones out there would be turned into logistic platforms.
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Karhig Mori
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.08.14 13:04:00 -
[106]
I know nothing of titan warfare so I'm going to go with common sense (or at least my version of it).
To me, capital ships should represent an ongoing investment in maintenance as well as an initial build cost. Titans particularly so, so feel free to consider the following only applicable to titans if you don't want to nerf all capital ships. As such, I'd suggest that capital ships require monthly maintenance, in materials not ISK. Why not ISK? Well, capital ships are meant to be the play things of self sufficient entities and as such they should be responsible for the full logistics chain rather than just being able to pay npcs to do it for them. More over, failure to meet the maintenance costs would result in damage to your capital ship. This is proportional (possibly not linearly) to the shortfall, so if you pay 90% of your maintenance then you only suffer a small amount of damage.
Coupled to this I'd remove the ability to repair a capital ship with remote reps and require capital ships repairers to go into a "dry dock" to be repaired. This costs more minerals than maintenance (twice as much?) and takes time. Alternatively repairers could be used but the capital ship would have to carry (and expend) materials to do this. So repairer ammunition. I'm specifically thinking this effect should be applied to structure not armour as applying it to both might be over the top.
I won't comment on DD devices as I have never encounted one. I do think this would go some way towards balancing the economic cost of capital ships and also make damaging one more meaningful. It seems a bit odd to me that the economic impact of damaging a capital ship is purely binary: You destroy it then it costs lots, you damage it and it costs nothing, it'll just use reps to repair itself. Really this is applicable to all ships, but it strikes me as more necessary for capital ships.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.14 14:16:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 14/08/2008 14:26:46
Titans at least in the way they are introduced now, should never have made it to TQ. But on the other hand a certain alliance had a very strong lobby within CCP at this time (and probably still has).
CCP could introduce Subsystem Targeting for Capital Ships and Supercaps, where smaller ships could chirugically destroy subsystems. Maybe they could go as far as introducing an exhaust-port subsystem for titans, that when hit by a small rocket, has a chance to have the Titan explode.
But such a change would patch only a little what is the real problem in EVE. The limited "Endgame" options, where everything boils down to shooting POS. Or the fact that space became too small. 2years ago you could go into a system and be alone in local or maybe discover 2 or 3 people in a belt. Outposts, Jump Bridges, Jump Drives, Jump Portals, Jump Clones, have taken the feeling of space is huge and empty, away.Also the Number of players nearly trippled in the last years.
The Titans are part of the problem, but only a part of it.
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Nexus1972
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo
Daedalus Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.08.14 14:58:00 -
[108]
CCP will probably bring in yet another bigger more expensive ship to take care of titans. The circle of life continues.
From the Simpsons:
Quote:
Ned wishes for the invading aliens to depart, which is accomplished by Moe chasing the aliens away with a board harbouring a nail. As they retreat, the aliens proclaim that one day humans will make bigger boards with bigger nails and eventually destroy themselves with their own power.
---------------------
Pat Sharpe's Potato Rodeo
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.14 15:05:00 -
[109]
I've fought against multiple Titans. Its possible to do and I've yet to lose a ship to one. However, that is not the issue: The problem is that its not Fun to fight with or against Titans.
We all want good Fleet fights. Titans prevent that. Frankly, its not good for the game to have entire groups of people wiped out without any chance of survival.
The logistics, gang bonuses and cloning are plenty of features to make a Titan worthwhile. Remove the DD and give it some sort of single-target super weapon. I propose a continuious-beam that does X damage per second and requires fuel to run, but other suggestions are welcome.
If you could actually control your ship in a timely manner during a large fleet fight, the DD would become just one more tactical obsticle to overcome. With Lag, firing a DD is likely to miss and could result in a lagged-out Titan as well. Regardless, its not much fun for all but the Titan pilot.
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Ioci
Gallente
Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.08.14 15:09:00 -
[110]
In the Catch battle, AAA had 6 in sys. That's a fleet of titans bt my definition. Should AAA and BoB ever clash, it would pretty much be a duel of the doomsdays. It isn't a problem at this point because the 'super powers' of Eve refuse to clash. It is creating an arms race in Eve though. Go nuclear or go back to Empire.. |
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Relena mearfire
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Posted - 2008.08.14 15:23:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
I've fought against multiple Titans. Its possible to do and I've yet to lose a ship to one. However, that is not the issue: The problem is that its not Fun to fight with or against Titans.
We all want good Fleet fights. Titans prevent that. Frankly, its not good for the game to have entire groups of people wiped out without any chance of survival.
The logistics, gang bonuses and cloning are plenty of features to make a Titan worthwhile. Remove the DD and give it some sort of single-target super weapon. I propose a continuious-beam that does X damage per second and requires fuel to run, but other suggestions are welcome.
If you could actually control your ship in a timely manner during a large fleet fight, the DD would become just one more tactical obsticle to overcome. With Lag, firing a DD is likely to miss and could result in a lagged-out Titan as well. Regardless, its not much fun for all but the Titan pilot.
I agree. the problem is there will still be to many titans.
And they still will be underpowered in what should be the main role of logistics.
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Alesia Iel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.14 16:31:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Alesia Iel on 14/08/2008 16:31:53
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
Wouldn't the inflation of isk make Titan's more expensive?
I can see your concern but to be honest it will be a while to come. Alot of people have no urge to fly even a mothership let alone a titan, and even those who make an alt for a Titan have a couple years of training to do.
Your wrong, on both counts, ISK inflation means ISK is easier to get, while prices stay largely the same.
Your wrong in every way, inflation is simply defined as the general increase in the prices of goods. Inflation does not make ISK easier to get out of the game, rat bounties will stay the same, and the increased revenue earned from selling minerals, is taken back when the pilot purchases ships/mods for example - which in turn cost more to build and therefore are sold for a higher price.
An increase in the amount of High end ships is inevitable, as EVE's skill system is progressive, I guess one way to counter it is introduce a whole new wave of ships maybe even bigger than titans. Most people will disagree with this but when they realease new stuff which takes more skills to use, it gives me a bigger incentive to play the game and achieve the end game goals.
Edit: Syntax
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.08.14 16:58:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality.
What difference does it make whether the dreads are in seige or not? If anything the fact the dreads cant warp away makes them more susceptible. The truth is no-one would be insane enough to put 15 titans on the feild together, they would all die and that is almost certainly the most massive defeat anyone has ever had. Imagine coming across 30 titans who had already shot their load? Awesome lol.
If you are worried about 15 titans killing your seiging dreads, all you need to do is have half your dreads out of seige out of dd range with some hics. If the enemy is stupid enough to attemp to dd your dreads, they will all die when the second half of your fleet warps to them.
If you are worried about 15 titans hot-dropping your carrier, why aren't you worried about 15 dreads doing so?
All ccp needs to do to keep titans balanced is to increase the cool down time of the dd as titans become more common. They will probably never become that common anyway, and if they do it will only be because people aren't risking them in combat, in which case where is the problem?
Are you really this stupid and short-sighted?
If it takes 15 titan to kill a carrier, and 27 to kill a dread (rough numbers) with a typical fit, then this will be done, and soon.
The idea that the titan doing this would die is ridiculous. The titan with the least EHP, the Ragnarok, easily has 50-60% more EHP in a typical fit than the dreadnaught with the most, the Revelation. They will easily survive enough of a boom boom with plenty of tanked HP left. If you want to come and kill them with dreads after they've fired.... you can try, but how will you tackle them? If you can accumulate 25 titans, you can accumulate 30 and have the last 3-5 hold fire unless one of the titans is tackled by a hictor.
They are ALREADY that common. The only reasonable and balanced solution is to remove the doomsday device. Full stop. Add more logistics/support roles to it, but the doomsday device has to go. As the effects are moderately pretty, add it as a one-off blast when the Titan is at 1% structure. It'd be much cooler if it was as rare as a titan dying anyway.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.08.14 17:04:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Darth Felin
Edited by: Darth Felin on 14/08/2008 11:06:49
Originally by: Popperr
Geez relax there's only 48 known Titans in game.
As I remember last count was 60 or 70 KNOWN Titans in game.
There are probably at least 20-30 UNKNOWN titans in game. The biggest reason why they arent' even more of a menace than they are is that most alliances that have them are too chickenshit to use them much.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.08.14 17:44:00 -
[115]
Originally by: cyboman
Somebody do the math... can a Titan withstand a DD from another Titan?
At least 14 on an untanked titan with no HP skills. So with skills/tank 2-3x that fairly easily. They have the most HP out there, so anything that could destroy them they could easily destroy with alot less DD's than they need to destroy each other.
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Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.08.14 17:57:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Abrazzar
I always say, have a titan align to a regional capital or it won't be able to online any modules. So the alliances will be limited to one per region they control. Maybe have motherships align to a constellation capital but they would have to be really useful first. This would give sovereignty some more meaning, too.
WIN, This!
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.08.14 20:12:00 -
[117]
cap ships are huge.. and cost nothing to maintain really
add a maintenance charge (flame me all you want cap pilots, caps make this game boring :P)
have titans use 5 billion worth of isk (in upkeep materials)
MOM use 1 billion
dreads 300 mill
carriers 200 mill
this will cause a LOT of people to melt their ships down (getting their isk back) and go back to flying normal ships... only the huge allainces will be able to upkeep more than 1-2 titans.
it sounds harsh.. but seriously think about it... cap fleets will be reduced.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY... its VERY effective at getting rid of the current isk inflation problems
_________________________________________________________
Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
FlameGlow
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.14 20:50:00 -
[118]
Well, RP-wise it's a sound idea to have non-docking ships get some stuffs(fuel, spare parts, oxygen, food, whatever) to keep operational, kinda like POSes do.
Definitely better then artificial limits on their numbers.
_____________
I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Gabriel Virtus
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Posted - 2008.08.15 03:45:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 15/08/2008 03:53:34
Originally by: Andreya
cap ships are huge.. and cost nothing to maintain really
add a maintenance charge (flame me all you want cap pilots, caps make this game boring :P)
have titans use 5 billion worth of isk (in upkeep materials)
MOM use 1 billion
dreads 300 mill
carriers 200 mill
this will cause a LOT of people to melt their ships down (getting their isk back) and go back to flying normal ships... only the huge allainces will be able to upkeep more than 1-2 titans.
it sounds harsh.. but seriously think about it... cap fleets will be reduced.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY... its VERY effective at getting rid of the current isk inflation problems
This is an AWFUL idea. It would be effective in making larger corporations having an absolute advantage over smaller corporations. BOB keeps all its titans because it can afford that low cost value. The buildup will continue. It will just cement the larger corporations as the super powers with smaller corps and alliances ABSOLUTELY unable to defend their space. Clearly larger corps have more resources/ships/pilots, but this would make the smaller corps have no chance. Nano ships are being nerfed that will make smaller corps unable to orchestrate guerrilla war effectively as well. This is a terrible idea.
Honestly, take DDDs away from titans. It is a dumb module and a relatively inexpensive iwin button. Make DD only do EWAR, or a module that gives a great fleet boost and only available on a titan, don't allow them to cloak, and don't allow anyone to insure them. Fixed. Any timers on DDD in system will just be abused and exploited and make systems with titans in them completely invuln to titan attack.
Flame on
-Gabriel
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Cautet
Precision Engineering
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Posted - 2008.08.15 10:25:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
So, as the game continues on its natural progression, ISK inflation rampantly out of control. The idea of having fleets of Titans isn't that far away.
Seeing triple DD's wipe out entire fleets (Impossible to tank 3 in any sub-capital) is becoming pretty common place.
Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality.
Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'?
People please stop saying ISK INFLATION. You have the wrong term.
Whatever ship or item is producable or farmable will increase in number UNLESS a. the number is limited in total allowed in game or b. you blow them up at a rate greater than the rate of production/farming (said rate of production can be influenced also in game).
What the **** has any of this got to do with ISK INFLATION? Nothing. No proof either that ISK INFLATION is a problem in eve. In fact the very term ISK INFLATION is meaningless. Inflation means devaluation of a currency. There is only one currency in eve which is ISK. So Inflation would be the term you are looking for. Common signs of inflation (depending on the index) would be a basket of common goods/commodoties increasing in cost over a period of time. You are clearly not talking about this.
If people want to talk about Economics could they
A Please not do so in ships and modules
B Go read a few books on Economics first
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Elhina Novae
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.08.15 12:04:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Elhina Novae on 15/08/2008 12:04:28
*Warning written by a noob who have only been wtfpwned by a titan once*
What about after a titan fires a DDD, they are completely immobile as in can't move/warp/jump away for 15 minutes, and basically make it a sitting duck? Also make the DDD more expensive too use
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When I became the sun,
I shone life into the man¦s hearts. |
Mychael
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Posted - 2008.08.15 14:54:00 -
[122]
i would prupose the limitation of system. let only a limited number of titans in sysstem, like 4 max? or whatever u like .. =)
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Grim Peeper
K. M. A. Enterprise
Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.18 22:34:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Grim Peeper on 18/08/2008 22:34:58
Edited by: Grim Peeper on 18/08/2008 22:34:18
make something like
"for every titan that sets of their DDD, all other titans in same fleet (or w/e)to take 25% more damage from other DDD's set of by other titan's in the fleet"?
or make a stackable gang warfare link like:
"for every *titan DDD damage reducion warefare link* equipped on a ship in the same fleet, reduce damage taken by DDD's by 1%"
and make it able to be fitted on anything cruiser or bigger?
that means small ships are still needed in fleet battles, it will make fleet battle that include titans last longer, and the larger the fleet the more chance of winning it will still have
i know my grammer sucks, my punctuation sucks, my idea's might even suck, but idea's can be worked on to not suck, and i think these are okay :D
but there's my 2 cents
flame away?
EDIT; re-reading and seeing stupid mistakes |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.08.19 11:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Abrazzar
I always say, have a titan align to a regional capital or it won't be able to online any modules. So the alliances will be limited to one per region they control. Maybe have motherships align to a constellation capital but they would have to be really useful first. This would give sovereignty some more meaning, too.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.08.19 12:38:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Lorz0r
maximum of 1 titan per alliance in a sytem at a time
Terrible idea, unless you want ot see new alliances named BoB A, BoB B, BoB C, etc... |
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