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Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:28:00 - [61] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 13/08/2008 18:28:04 The only thing at all that is problematic about Titans, regardless of how many are around in the game is the DDD. Doomsdays should never have been added into this game. There is absolutely nothing about it that is good at all (not they don't prevent "blobs", they make them a must), and they unbalance the game in so many ways. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:38:00 - [62] when titan population will grow big enough to be a problem, there will be at least 2 hundreds of motherships and most of 2005 ppl will be on a capital ship and probably have enough isk to start thinking about a mommyship. that won't be an issue, until CCP decides to deploy more and more capital-sized vessels type. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Savage Roar Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.13 18:42:00 - [63] OR you could just make the DDD "unstable" and it will have a % chance of "backfiring" and disabling the titan's navigation capabilities (all of them, jump and warp and flight) for 30 minutes or so. make it low, like 2% or so, but increases by 2% with each successive titan in the system... so if you have 24 titans in a system there's only a 50/50 chance they'll be able to fly off after DDDing... that would go a long way to decrease using them for ddd-spam... and a counter to ddd-spam would be to bring your own titans into a system and just leave them there to increase the total count lol... alternatively, add in a timer, not on the ship, but in each grid. only one ddd per 2 minutes allowed... i can see that working too...
sinqlaison Amarr Capital Builders Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.13 19:47:00 - [64] Edited by: sinqlaison on 13/08/2008 19:47:49 I am sure it will happen soon, as titans sell well (sold 2 this week). Wait no further as doom will hit you, expand your fleet today Titan packages
Xioden Acap Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.08.13 20:08:00 - [65] I wonder if it would be better if titans were basically a mobile outpost. Forget the whole "Dooms day device" give them a medical bay and a butt load of hanger space for ships that people can grab after getting blown up.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente The Crane Family	Posted - 2008.08.13 21:15:00 - [66] In a complex system certain parts of the system will reach equilibrium. Looking at the Titans as part of the complex system that EVE-online represents, what we see is that not enough time has lapsed for an equilibrium to be established. It is anyones guess where that equilibrium lies, but already many players, me among them, are worried that the Titan equilibrium lies somewhere where it is not desirable (i.e. breaks the game). One way of reaching an equilibrium is through economic means, but without daily maintenance for having Titans, my idea is that the number of Titans will be such that it wealthy alliances will be able to maintain so many Titans that none-wealthy alliances will never be able to catch up. Furthermore, establishing equilibrium through economic means is both difficult to achieve and easy to disestablish. Meaning that even with a daily maintenance for Titans, the equilibrium could be or could over time become unsuited to the environment. This leaves warfare. Although this is not an easier means to establish equilibrium, it is more direct, and therefore more easy to control. What I'm talking about is establishing a balance based on the means to build Titans and the ease of their destruction. One could argue that this balance is currently out of wack. In a way, Titans are too easy to maintain in relation to the effort needed to destroy one. There are two ways to go about this, both are a nerf, and therefore, both will be unwelcome (i.e. lead to the Whambulance). One is to make Titans more difficult to manufacture and maintain, thus giving the alliances that already have done so an unfair advantage (again). Another is to make Titans easier to destroy, thus upsetting the alliances that went through the trouble of making them (who are not without influence). The long and the short is that neither solution exposed above will make CCP very popular. Yet it is a choice they have to make. I personally don't envy the devs that have to make it. Unfortunately, the longer the solution is delayed, the worse the problem will become. -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:03:00 - [67] When big mice become a major problem CCP will just invent a bigger mouse trap.
Solid Trust Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:12:00 - [68] I think CCP should do nothing now so a lot more people can be trained on the Titan and spend the billions to buy it. Then when everyone has them and it is this huge problem THEN they nerf the crap out of it. Then tell them to all stop whining and and that they need to adapt or die.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:15:00 - [69] I think between now and christmas, we'll see an alliance able to field enough titans to kill dreadnoughts and carriers instantly. Won't that be fun? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Richard Angevian The Crusaders.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:39:00 - [70] Edited by: Richard Angevian on 13/08/2008 22:40:52 Fleets of titans are inevitable, just as everyone eventually becoming a Jedi in old SWG was. When you make something clearly far better than everything else in a MMO, eventually it will become common, no matter how expensive it is, no matter how hard or long it takes to achieve it, because it will become everyone's goal. Even third rate alliances are fielding titans now. Bear in mind that dreads and carriers once were the rare playthings of the superpowers too. Which is why a titan nerf is inevitable. Which is sad. But it's the way incompetent devs always take out of a problem of their own making, punish the players rather than deal with their mistake. What needs to happen to titans is obvious, but I can guarantee you that it will NOT be the way CCP takes: Nerf multiple DD's in one system, and... INCREASE the power of the DD! That way a single titan is even more devastating than it is today (though those who fit for DD should still survive it) but there will be no more of this 3 titans on the field bullshit. Superpowers will still have the advantage in that they will have more of them and will be more able to risk them in a fight, but in any one system in any single engagement, two sides that own titans will be even. Changes needed: Multiple DD nerf: After a single DD has been fired, no other titan may fire one until the cooldown on that one is over. "Siege" mode for titan: Titans fit a seige module and MUST go into "siege mode" which will increase DD strength (and defenses) by 50%, or else suffer a -50% penalty in DD strength. What CCP will do: Nerf DD by 50%, thus ushering in the need to bring 10 titans to the field. Certain alliances will be able to do this and the change, ostensibly for the "little guy" will just further unbalance things in favor of the supercap heavy superpowers.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:39:00 - [71] Originally by: James Lyrus Won't that be fun? Titans online?
Mo adib	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:49:00 - [72] tbh I think they already have the idea on what the counter to titans is. or atleast I hope so and am hoping that scene in the empyrean age trailer where a bs squad has some kind of combined anti capital weapon. in any case its one of the posible ways to do it, obviously not going so far as to have an abaddon one shot a whole cap fleet but giving traditional ships a new fitout possibility that allows them to counter titans.
Richard Angevian The Crusaders.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:55:00 - [73] Edited by: Richard Angevian on 13/08/2008 22:55:40 Originally by: Mo adib tbh I think they already have the idea on what the counter to titans is. or atleast I hope so and am hoping that scene in the empyrean age trailer where a bs squad has some kind of combined anti capital weapon. in any case its one of the posible ways to do it, obviously not going so far as to have an abaddon one shot a whole cap fleet but giving traditional ships a new fitout possibility that allows them to counter titans. How about some sort of warfare link module that would allow a fleet of battleships to combine their ship's powergrids to fire off a combined superweapon? Shouldn't be as strong as a DD, but it'd be a helluva alternative to building and fielding titans.
Clone 231E	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:55:00 - [74] Yes, fleets are already getting pretty close to that alpha of caps. I agree that by christmas it will be possible. CCP will nerf titans, and most likely the utility of capitals too sometime. When CCP nerfs something, they nerf the crap out of it.
Richard Angevian The Crusaders.	Posted - 2008.08.13 22:57:00 - [75] Originally by: Clone 231E Yes, fleets are already getting pretty close to that alpha of caps. I agree that by christmas it will be possible. CCP will nerf titans, and most likely the utility of capitals too sometime. When CCP nerfs something, they nerf the crap out of it. Yep. When they nerf, the overnerf. It's easier to destroy something, than to find a creative solution to the problem. They must teach this in Dev school, becuase it's not only how CCP operates, it's the way of EVERY MMO publisher out there.
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.08.13 23:28:00 - [76] I've said it dozens of times and I will say it dozens more: Limit the number of DDD's that can happen per x amount of time. IE, only two DD's may be set off on one grid per 10 minutes. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:13:00 - [77] Doomsday weapon always was a daft idea.
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:41:00 - [78] Stop whining like little babies. Titans have very balanced game mechanics. *HEH!*
Vladimir Griftin	Posted - 2008.08.14 00:54:00 - [79] Originally by: Moon Kitten Titans have very balanced game mechanics. *HEH!* Balanced like a duck .. its a fair cop
Neesa Corrinne Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.08.14 01:42:00 - [80] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence When big mice become a major problem CCP will just invent a bigger mouse trap. No offense man, but this is absolutely the wrong approach. It's the entire reason that we're in the position with titans that we are. Dev 1: We need something to combat Carriers Dev 2: How about motherships? Dev 1: BRILLIANT! 1 year later Dev 1: We need something to combat Motherships. Dev 2: How about Titans? Dev 1: BRILLIANT! 1 year from now Dev 1: We need something to combat Titans Dev 2: How about Super-Mega-Tokyo-Violence-Titans? Dev 1: BRILLIANT! Escalation is the WRONG approach.
Washinome Igarashi Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.14 01:51:00 - [81] I admit to being a n00b and knowing absolutely nothing, but wouldn't the counter to the DD weapon be to close with your enemy as quickly as possible so that he cannot bring the weapon to bear, or is the DD weapon so lame that it only hits hostiles and not friendlies in the area of affect?
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries Ultionis Quietus	Posted - 2008.08.14 01:51:00 - [82] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Dev 1: We need something to combat Carriers Dev 2: How about motherships? Dev 1: BRILLIANT! Interesting I wasn't around when carriers or motherships came out but by reading the description you would think motherships came out first. Thanatos -Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of the Nyx, Federation Navy authorities commissioned the design of the Thanatos. Designed to act primarily as a fighter carrier for small- to mid-scale engagements, its significant defensive capabilities and specially-fitted fighter bays make it ideal for its intended purpose.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.08.14 02:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Vladimir Griftin So, as the game continues on its natural progression, ISK inflation rampantly out of control. The idea of having fleets of Titans isn't that far away. Seeing triple DD's wipe out entire fleets (Impossible to tank 3 in any sub-capital) is becoming pretty common place. Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality. Did anyone at CCP actually consider this when designing Titans? Is there some kind of defence mechanism in the works to counter this? Or is everyone's only option 'just dont leave the cyno jammed systems'? Devoter, Damnation pilots would disagree with you. --- I smack just for myself.
Marya Sklodowska	Posted - 2008.08.14 03:27:00 - [84] Originally by: Korizan Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Dev 1: We need something to combat Carriers Dev 2: How about motherships? Dev 1: BRILLIANT! Interesting I wasn't around when carriers or motherships came out but by reading the description you would think motherships came out first. Thanatos -Sensing the need for a more moderately-priced version of the Nyx, Federation Navy authorities commissioned the design of the Thanatos. Designed to act primarily as a fighter carrier for small- to mid-scale engagements, its significant defensive capabilities and specially-fitted fighter bays make it ideal for its intended purpose. They actually got introduced to the game at the same time. ----------------------------------- Raivi's Research Alt -Explosion Matrix- Support Sarmaul's MWD MKII
P'XEL Demonocracy	Posted - 2008.08.14 08:24:00 - [85] Together with walking about on stations include: Boarding parties for capturing/crippling titans :) Maybe take over parts of the ship, like a weapon system, navigation, etc
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.08.14 08:40:00 - [86] Originally by: Vladimir Griftin Eventually we will see fleets of enough Titans to take out Capital fleets. Hot dropping 15 Titans on someones Carrier or unsieged Dread fleet and obliterating them WILL become a reality. What difference does it make whether the dreads are in seige or not? If anything the fact the dreads cant warp away makes them more susceptible. The truth is no-one would be insane enough to put 15 titans on the feild together, they would all die and that is almost certainly the most massive defeat anyone has ever had. Imagine coming across 30 titans who had already shot their load? Awesome lol. If you are worried about 15 titans killing your seiging dreads, all you need to do is have half your dreads out of seige out of dd range with some hics. If the enemy is stupid enough to attemp to dd your dreads, they will all die when the second half of your fleet warps to them. If you are worried about 15 titans hot-dropping your carrier, why aren't you worried about 15 dreads doing so? All ccp needs to do to keep titans balanced is to increase the cool down time of the dd as titans become more common. They will probably never become that common anyway, and if they do it will only be because people aren't risking them in combat, in which case where is the problem?
Sannah Ur	Posted - 2008.08.14 09:03:00 - [87] Originally by: Vladimir Griftin Your wrong, on both counts, ISK inflation means ISK is easier to get, while prices stay largely the same. No. By definition, inflation means the currenty becomes worth less so prices rise. A typical inflation of a western country is around 2%, so that means that something that costs a 100ISK one year, costs 102 ISK the next year, only because the currency is worth less. That ship prices are dropping isn't inflation, it's because mineral prices are dropping.
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.08.14 09:12:00 - [88] Ideas which would make titans more vulnerable: Make it so they can't be remote repped while in cooldown from firing the DD. - Makes titans even more of a one-shot pony and pretty much useless in situations where titans should be involved (massive fleet battles/seiges), while in no way limiting the people who hot drop roaming gangs. Make it that they can't move during the cool-down time. - My favourite, even the number of dreads required to kill a cap fleet is going to think twice of doing it if they are then stuck there unable to DD when the enemy comes back in new ships. Make the DD more expensive to use. - self explanatory tbh Make pos be able to tackle titans (maybe with a new battery?) - People are much less likely to dd cap ships if a pos can hold them there after. Make it that they can't cloak during cooldown. - its stupid that they can do this. Reduce the range of the DD. - Titan has to get close to the enemy and is therefore at risk from anything that survives the dd, or anything that warps in to tackle post DD Reduce the damage of the DD. - Means you need more titans to kill stuff. Simply reducing the damage as titans become more popular would keep the total damage potential similar. Impose a DD to grid limit. - Unatural limit i dont much like, but which would limit titans to what i think is their intended role. Make seiged dreads/triaged carrier/moms immune - they are the only ships which cant warp away, so seems fair and is probably easily explained from an rp perspective. Link doomsdays to cynos - no doomsdays in cyno-jammed systems. Impose a limit on DDing people inside anchorable bubbles. Currently the only time bs can't escape a DD is when they jump into a system covered by a large bubble or 2, in which case they will be dead before they could ever escape. I think any one of these could suitably disuade people from titan blobbing. The truth is sub-bs can always warp out from a dd, and even cap ships can do so if aligned. DD is if anything rather hard to pull off and requires skill (if not on the part of the titan pilot then definately on the part of cov-ops and dictor pilots). The consequences of missing with a DD are high, the consequences of missing with 15 even higher. In the current laggy environment the first titan would probably be dead before the 8th titans DD had an effect anyway.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.14 09:26:00 - [89] Originally by: hired goon Originally by: Neesa Corrinne These things WILL ruin the EVE that I know and love without some serious changes, and if those changes aren't made soon, then the people who are currently training to fly one will ***** until they turn blue about having their prize taken from them right when they were able to use it. Don't worry. If there's one thing ccp loves, it's making changes to things. You're already quite vocal - all you need is to get yourself together a little minority and BoB's your uncle! The Irony is strong in this one.
Deira Lenia The Chaotic Order Void.	Posted - 2008.08.14 09:49:00 - [90] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne I would be quite happy if my prediction of corporate Titans was wrong. But I will never stand corrected on this, if changes aren't made. In the current state of the game, even corporations will have personal titans within the next six months. You are being corrected on this. Corporate owned titans have been in existance for awile. People leave alliances sometimes you know? Seeing it only costs me 41b to produce a Avatar, and a odd what, 10B for the fittings. If someone has a array spare for a few weeks i'd love to put this fatteh into production. TITANS FOR EVERYONE! The biggest thing that has been stopping corporate titans is the sov requirement on the array which is impossible to get without a alliance. The alliances that do have the required sov are usualy too afraid to build one or dont have the assets/numbers to defend one. This also stops smaller corps/alliances from getting a titan from 2 weeks of continuesly mining. Because they dont want to produce for others, and tbh. I'd never give 50b+ of stuff to someone, even if they would be my neighbours in RL. So, anyone with a spare array that could produce this ***** in my hangar? We've been mining for days now! -- Real men corpse tank Void Forums The Chaotic Order Forums

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