Which was your subjective interpretation of what was said around a table and not put in writing... Unlike here. I watched the Presentation myself and quite frankly theres still nothing that has been said that has suggested eve will be broken beyond repair and the sandbox has all of a sudden become WoW (some of you should actually play wow first before comparing the two games)

Right now the entire can flipping mechanic is totally unbalanced as there are little to no consequences for the perps and very serious implications for the people getting flipped.

This imo is just a very welcome balance, action=consequence = far more pvp options = win.

If you don't like it, don't flip the switch, the choice will always be yours.

Current plan is that the bonus you get for killing someone is halved for every time you've previously killed that person in the last 28 days, with the "halved" subject to further balancing. That should prevent at least the most obvious exploit cases.

Isn't this about the time when the can flippers should be told to HTFU or GTFO? Just saying

For every action, there should be a reaction, afterall isn't that what the sanbdox is fundementally all about?

Might I suggest that the bonus is "halved" per account that you get a kill on? Not that ANYONE would grind themselves to -10 on a new char quickly, then pod, recycle character, repeat.

So you're saying that being flagged to the person you stole from, and his entire corporation, isn't a reaction?

If you want to go in this direction, I'll oblige.

Launching cans is abandonment, no different from throwing an empty cup out into the highway. High-sec is empire space; it doesn't belong to the pod-pilot launching the can. Therefore, all cans should be considered garbage. Unless of course the pilot jettisoning a can buys licenses from the empires that specifically allow him to secure his jettisoned property. CCP can decide what the fee should be, but I propose a simple X ISK per Y cubic meters system.

Oh, and in line with these rules, all NPC cans belong strictly to the NPC faction they originated from. Anyone taking from NPC cans should be subject to the same "suspicion" flag. Property rules are property rules, after all.

I enjoy your semi-RP responses, they are amusing. They however are not very relevant to a mechanics discussion. The next time an NPC complains about me looting his wreck, I will send him to you so that you can be his lawyer. But make sure he has filed a petition with a GM prior to bothering the NPC judges.

Why is it a bad thing to have some small part of space where there is law and order?

The whole reason for me is to get small scale PvP. One opponent. Two. Maybe three or four. And unfortunately that's not something I generally find in lowsec, nullsec, FW, or from observation of RvB. People just seem to be too risk adverse. It's usually blobtastic gangs and gatecamps looking for easy kills. And since I don't use an alt (link or scouting) that's generally not something I can take on with even a slim chance of winning.

Also, the best part of the can-flipping aggro is that it is completely voluntary. You cannot force them to fight. You cannot make it non-consensual. You provoke them, but they have the choice to fight or walk away. So when you get a fight, you know that they want to PvP.

As a mission runner, for example, I get to deal with ninja looters who can just steal all the tags from my wrecks freely (that's millions of isk per mission for no real effort, mind) and there's simply no way I can stop them from doing so, and since they're always in a speedy frigate it's pretty much impossible to gank them in the first place. This is risk-free thievery, and it sucks. It really, really sucks.

As a mission runner, for example, I get to deal with ninja looters who can just steal all the tags from my wrecks freely (that's millions of isk per mission for no real effort, mind) and there's simply no way I can stop them from doing so, and since they're always in a speedy frigate it's pretty much impossible to gank them in the first place. This is risk-free thievery, and it sucks. It really, really sucks.

I'm sure this will prompt the inevitable anti-carebear comments, but seriously? Should people be able to just steal from mission wrecks without consequence like that? Millions and millions of isk, just like that? No effort at all? How does that make any bloody sense!?

...

Annnnd let the anti-carebear rebuttals begin!

And how exactly are my semi-RP responses that concern player interaction with NPC entities irrelevant to a mechanics discussion in the context of an MMORPG?

Little frig is in your mission stealing tags? Call up a corpmate to come in a frig, or dessie, or cloaky recon (if he's feeling spunky) to deal with the problem. Or if you do not like conflict, have a corp noob tag along with you and his primary job is to loot/salvage wrecks. Or train up to a Marauder and do it yourself on the fly. Or offer to hire the ninja salvager to become your partner for L4s and split the loot each time (half is better than nothing). Really there are many many solutions.

You are apparently intelligent enough to attempt to make the abstract argument, linking the two unlike things, but apparently not wise enough to know better than to base your position on an equivocation.

Players are not NPCs. If you want to make an argument for faction based "suspect" flags when players get below a certain faction standing and are in that faction's space, then make that argument, I might even support it. But this nandy pandy BS about taking rat loots from the poor miserable abused rats is below your abilities.

Because it fundamentally breaks the game in a number of ways and will be abused to hell and back.
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Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb.

Duelling we're planning to support with an explicit mechanic rather than the current hacky workaround.

Why is it a bad thing to have some small part of space where there is law and order? Seems like the RP aspect demands that 20 thousand years into the future, we can expect to have laws enforced in some parts of space without relying on vigilante justice.

And no, I have not had trouble finding friends who I could trust - it just was a little difficult for the first few months.- far more A-holes, than trustworthy players.

Actually Tippia it does not break the game. If anything it corrects what the actual view of high sec should be according to the SCC mandate. The complacency if anything is the fact that criminals believe they can get away with their actions with no consequence or culpability for the choices they make in this regard.

No. The complacency lies in people absolutely refusing to provide consequences. There are tons of themfor criminals, but the victoms then immediately void them.

This proposal excludes criminal behaviour because it reduces aggression to two types: suicide and wardecs. Neither is a good platform for proper criminality. While it opens up for bounty hunting, it will not enable it because it immediately becomes pointless.

No. The complacency lies in people absolutely refusing to provide consequences. There are tons of themfor criminals, but the victoms then immediately void them.

This proposal excludes criminal behaviour because it reduces aggression to two types: suicide and wardecs. Neither is a good platform for proper criminality. While it opens up for bounty hunting, it will not enable it because it immediately becomes pointless.

I think that's a key issue with younger players, they can't accept that EVE from the get-go always forced you to accept the consequences to your actions. A big vocal part of the playerbase don't want that today. You can always discuss/argue why they play this game since it's always been an integral part of the EVE identity (i.e. sandbox), but they tend to scream "but we don't want it and we're more than you, stfu bittervet" or "but the game should be for everyone, part of space should have XYZ because I want it".

Whatever they say, you're right, it is gamebreaking. Not sure it mean EVE will die tho, but it definately kills the very identity and core of this game. Where's the consequences. And how will you learn the game if new/young players don't learn there is always consequences. We all went through that process at some point.

I adjust my debate strategy to not go too far above the heads of the people I'm arguing with. What's the point of using high-end logic when most of the responses you get are "htfu gankbear"? Might as well hit closer to home and stick to things they understand. Luckily, mission NPCs are one of these things.

Also, being flagged to an entire corp for 15 minutes is hardly a price to pay or a deterrent. The average high sec corp is spread out over a constellation or a region, this is not a defense or a threat, and I know you know that. Your argument is attempting to exploit this very weakness in most high sec corps. They are loosely defined, they don't wander in packs, they are not organized and most of them don't want to be organized beyond hanging out with some internet friends and relaxing for an hour or two before they have to go to bed.

This proposal excludes criminal behaviour because it reduces aggression to two types: suicide and wardecs. Neither is a good platform for proper criminality. While it opens up for bounty hunting, it will not enable it because it immediately becomes pointless.