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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
314
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
If you steal from them, then they shoot you, you'll be able to shoot back. All this will do is:
A: Allow everyone else to shoot you. B: 'stop' people stealing back from you, without understanding the consequences (because people are stupid)
You'll just turn off your safties, and not be bothered.
Of course, this introduces the fun concept of a bouncer on the asteroid belt. You steal from someone's can, they try to blow you up. More PvP FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
299
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:46:00 -
[92] - Quote
Terazul wrote:Lawl, you don't even know how PvP works in WoW, do you? For that matter, you can still be a douchebag in high-sec with the current proposal. You just can't do so without consequences (GASP OHMIGAWD SO SCARY). But seriously? There's always low- and null-sec, those aren't going away anytime soon. And again, noob retention is kind of a big deal. So deal with it!
There are consequences to ganking/PvP in hisec.
I don't give a flying **** about WoW: I just know that this is dividing the sandbox along explicit lines whilst, apparently, eliminating options, which is not what a sandbox is supposed to be.
Teaching noobs how to work in the sandbox starting with a revamped NPE, instead of just giving them a mining gun, a civi gun, and teaching them how to shoot red crosses or rocks with nothing about mechanics, is how you build a good, long-term EVE player who "gets it."
But can't have that, when we can just break things already broken even further, now can we.
In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
299
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
[...]
Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb.
Duelling we're planning to support with an explicit mechanic rather than the current hacky workaround.
[...]
Thank you for confirming what I have long suspected. -3 accounts soonish I'm thinking, this is a complete ******* farce, even by the standards of CCP. WoW does WoW better than EVE ever has, will, or even can (try building in a PvE component that isn't an archaic, tedious joke, first) why can't you get this through your head, and stop trying to make EVE, WoW? Wait... what are you complaining about? The only people who will be annoyed by this are high sec can flippers... and I don't really see how this changes that much, other when you jack a can everyone can shoot at you. That's probably the way it should have been anyway. It won't deter the ninja looters, I can tell you that.
Quite right, and it wouldn't deter me, either (might just go ninja-salvaging again, at that.).
But this is drawing a line in the sand of the box, as it were...That's not a good thing, in a sandbox MMO. In irae, veritas. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
656
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:49:00 -
[94] - Quote
Meh |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
299
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:50:00 -
[95] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
[...]
Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb.
Duelling we're planning to support with an explicit mechanic rather than the current hacky workaround.
[...]
Thank you for confirming what I have long suspected. -3 accounts soonish I'm thinking, this is a complete ******* farce, even by the standards of CCP. WoW does WoW better than EVE ever has, will, or even can (try building in a PvE component that isn't an archaic, tedious joke, first) why can't you get this through your head, and stop trying to make EVE, WoW? Obligatory, your stuff can I haz?
I didn't explicitly say I was going-dark, just that I'm much more seriously considering it than at any time since the Incarna debacle.
And if I do, then my stuffs go to friends, sorry. In irae, veritas. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
378
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
I consistently get the impression that changes to highsec gameplay are made without anyone in the process having the foggiest idea about what actually happens in highsec. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
455
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Quite right, and it wouldn't deter me, either (might just go ninja-salvaging again, at that.).
But this is drawing a line in the sand of the box, as it were...That's not a good thing, in a sandbox MMO. Meh... I wouldn't get too worked up just yet. Lets wait and see what the new wardec system will look like.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
315
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:56:00 -
[98] - Quote
Only option this is really eliminating is the risk free ganking of a noob in a mining ship.
It is opening up other options, say:
A missioning fleet from multiple corps, dealing with a ninja looter (who, let's be fair) isn't really there for the loot. 'anti pirates', not losing sec status when going after pirate in lowsec.
And /significantly/ cleaner code. Which is always something to strive for. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1163
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb. I want to clarify here: when I'm racing another explorer in a Gurista Scout Outpost and he pops the tower, will I be able to steal the loot from the can at the risk of him engaging me?
Because if you break that mechanic, you've taken away something that was JUST FINE.
And if someone wants to whine about how it's not fair that I took from "their" can, what about the fact that I did 90% of the damage in room 1 to unlock the gate and they just got lucky and landed the final blow on the tower?
There's a lot more to consider here than "that's my can because I shot that rat". It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Geoscape
Dust-ball Corporation
14
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Posted - 2012.03.22 20:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
Did ccp mention anything about adding fleet boosters to killmails as assisting party? |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
315
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:00:00 -
[101] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb. I want to clarify here: when I'm racing another explorer in a Gurista Scout Outpost and he pops the tower, will I be able to steal the loot from the can at the risk of him engaging me? Because if you break that mechanic, you've taken away something that was JUST FINE.
At the risk of him, and everyone else, for the length of the timer, engaging you. Pretty much like Low-sec. Concord won't give a damn. As long as you turn off the safety that stops you stealing.
That's the 'misdemeanors' level, which would suspect flag you.
'Felony' level stuff has concord.
Basically, if it'd currently flag you for aggression to another player, it flags you for all. If it would get Concord after you, it still will FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
455
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:01:00 -
[102] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Can-flipping as-is will be impossible once the safeties are added. People should be able to choose to do dumb things, but they should also have the information they need to figure out that the thing they're doing is dumb. I want to clarify here: when I'm racing another explorer in a Gurista Scout Outpost and he pops the tower, will I be able to steal the loot from the can at the risk of him engaging me? Because if you break that mechanic, you've taken away something that was JUST FINE. And if someone wants to whine about how it's not fair that I took from "their" can, what about the fact that I did 90% of the damage in room 1 to unlock the gate and they just got lucky and landed the final blow on the tower? There's a lot more to consider here than "that's my can because I shot that rat". You can loot from the can but you will get the new medium security flag meaning any players can engage you, not just the owner of the can, if I understand correctly.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
315
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:01:00 -
[103] - Quote
Geoscape wrote:Did ccp mention anything about adding fleet boosters to killmails as assisting party?
Even better. They were talking about battle reports. It'll take a while as the backend logging needs done, but yes. Everything that affects the battle will be there. Booster, RR, all that good stuff.
And it should be available to all involved. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
299
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:01:00 -
[104] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:I consistently get the impression that changes to highsec gameplay are made without anyone in the process having the foggiest idea about what actually happens in highsec.
^^This^^
Not least of all, those who are supposed to be senior devs?
Greyscale, do you even play this game? And if so, then do you understand at all what "sandbox MMO" really means?
In irae, veritas. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1163
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 21:06:00 -
[105] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:At the risk of him, and everyone else, for the length of the timer, engaging you. Pretty much like Low-sec. Concord won't give a damn. As long as you turn off the safety that stops you stealing.
That's the 'misdemeanors' level, which would suspect flag you.
'Felony' level stuff has concord.
Basically, if it'd currently flag you for aggression to another player, it flags you for all. If it would get Concord after you, it still will So...good loot AND more chance of combat? Sign me up. I can evade the world for 15 minutes if I have to. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
0
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:11:00 -
[106] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:At the risk of him, and everyone else, for the length of the timer, engaging you. Pretty much like Low-sec. Concord won't give a damn. As long as you turn off the safety that stops you stealing.
That's the 'misdemeanors' level, which would suspect flag you.
'Felony' level stuff has concord.
Basically, if it'd currently flag you for aggression to another player, it flags you for all. If it would get Concord after you, it still will So...good loot AND more chance of combat? Sign me up. I can evade the world for 15 minutes if I have to.
Yes because noob cans have such good loot. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
378
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:13:00 -
[107] - Quote
Making people be globally flagged with aggression for stealing will be a bad mechanic that people (me) will be able to exploit the hell out of. I mean seriously, it doesn't even seem to be intended to fix any kind of problem and the current system of flagging people to corporations is totally fine.
But whatever I'm going to be able to kill huge numbers of newbies with this. |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
54
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:16:00 -
[108] - Quote
Can you make sure that drones don't accidentally flag you against someone who is a 'suspect/criminal' nearby, even if they attack you?
Quote: Making people be globally flagged with aggression for stealing will be a bad mechanic that people (me) will be able to exploit the hell out of. I mean seriously, it doesn't even seem to be intended to fix any kind of problem and the current system of flagging people to corporations is totally fine.
But whatever I'm going to be able to kill huge numbers of newbies with this.
"There are 'sploits, but I won't tell you what they are" ? |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
379
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:17:00 -
[109] - Quote
That's called setting your drones to passive. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
315
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:18:00 -
[110] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Making people be globally flagged with aggression for stealing will be a bad mechanic that people (me) will be able to exploit the hell out of. I mean seriously, it doesn't even seem to be intended to fix any kind of problem and the current system of flagging people to corporations is totally fine.
But whatever I'm going to be able to kill huge numbers of newbies with this.
What it's fixing is the hideous mess which is aggression flagging.
Specifically: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104420254081686601186/albums/5722733915682028897/5722734017708718338
It also allows for far simpler code. Which should help with lag issues.
The main downside I can see, is a reduction in Incursion bear tears, because they're less likely to pickup a GCC in a Logi chain. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
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Shandir
Ferocious Felines
54
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:That's called setting your drones to passive.
Yes, because missions and PvP should have the same settings. That's logical. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
379
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
Shandir wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:That's called setting your drones to passive. Yes, because missions and PvP should have the same settings. That's logical. Heaven forfend that you should ever manually do anything while carebearing. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1163
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 21:24:00 -
[113] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The main downside I can see, is a reduction in Incursion bear tears, because they're less likely to pickup a GCC in a Logi chain. CCP seems hell bent on keeping us from doing anything like that ever again. Oh well, we had two good runs of it :) It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Hoshi
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:32:00 -
[114] - Quote
Those safety switches, please make sure to place them so the can be accessed in space without blacking out the whole screen. That means don't put them under options but perhaps somewhere on the character sheet. "Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason." |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
387
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 21:33:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote: Rant
Perhaps you've misunderstood. Turn the saftey off, and continue as normal. It just won't be a pop up. Instead you have to go into the esc menu and turn it off.
No more anoying AppGlobal Modal Windows - This is a good thing. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 21:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
I don't see how the flagging changes can flipping at all. Especially in the belts. Unless flippers are raging because their risk free play-style will suddenly have risk involved.
It encourages more PvP, which is what EvE is centered around. HTFU If you can't handle the possibility that someone other than the Retriever pilot might shoot back. HTFU
There have been plenty of comments in various threads about how miners need to protect themselves. How miners need to have an alt sit and protect them in low and null. People were pretty hard ass about all that. Now CCP hints at possibly making that a reality in high-sec, and the tears are a deluge.
If bringing more PvP on a wider scale into high-sec, and if reducing the situations in which Concord responds is "dumbing down" Eve, the biomass button is to the right of your portrait on the login screen. Feel free to use it.
Profit favors the prepared |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
455
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:38:00 -
[117] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:I don't see how the flagging changes can flipping at all. Especially in the belts. Unless flippers are raging because their risk free play-style will suddenly have risk involved.
It encourages more PvP, which is what EvE is centered around. HTFU If you can't handle the possibility that someone other than the Retriever pilot might shoot back. HTFU
There have been plenty of comments in various threads about how miners need to protect themselves. How miners need to have an alt sit and protect them in low and null. People were pretty hard ass about all that. Now CCP hints at possibly making that a reality in high-sec, and the tears are a deluge.
If bringing more PvP on a wider scale into high-sec, and if reducing the situations in which Concord responds is "dumbing down" Eve, the biomass button is to the right of your portrait on the login screen. Feel free to use it.
This ^
...and in my humble experience the better kind of can flipping is ninja looting player wrecks in low sec. I think it's the most new player friendly and high paying job you can do. It's fun, profitable, and teaches you aggression mechanics. I agree with you completely Evei...
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
379
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:41:00 -
[118] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:There have been plenty of comments in various threads about how miners need to protect themselves. How miners need to have an alt sit and protect them in low and null. People were pretty hard ass about all that. Now CCP hints at possibly making that a reality in high-sec, and the tears are a deluge. You realise that miners can and fairly often do already do that, right?
Oh wait, you're in an NPC corp so you probably wouldn't know that you get aggression to the entire corp when stealing. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
299
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:48:00 -
[119] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote: Rant
Perhaps you've misunderstood. Turn the saftey off, and continue as normal. It just won't be a pop up. Instead you have to go into the esc menu and turn it off. No more anoying AppGlobal Modal Windows - This is a good thing.
I hope you're right, mate.
No sarcasm, I'm dead-serious here:
I hope this is indeed, as you say, and I'm hugely misinterpreting this...
But the cynic in me insists otherwise, and it's being very insistent atm, if you get my drift. Not least of all because of all the carebear crying we've been seeing 'round these parts for...oooh, let's say the last 8-10 months. It would seem--again, I pray that I am wrong--that they've built up momentum.
This will prove EVE's undoing if CCP takes what they want to its logical end-point. In irae, veritas. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
557
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Posted - 2012.03.22 21:49:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Razin wrote:What about killing newly created alts characters? Might need a limiter on killed char age also.
p.s. What's happening with delayed local? If it becomes an issue, sure, but we're hoping that it'll be more trouble than it's worth to create a bunch of alts, have them drive their sec down and then kill them one by one. CCP Greyscale, that not what people will do. What they will do is:
Have each corp member create just one or 2 alts, and all corp members take turns killing each others alts. That way the effort to create the alts is spread out over many people. Or;
People will make "Shoot us!" corps full of -10 pilots, and let you shoot them all for a fee. Or;
Two pirate corps will get together and take turns killing each other.
How to fix: Make ship value lost be a determining factor is sec status gain. Yes you could buy your way up, but with proper balancing, it will be expensive. I am running for the CSM. Take a look at my ideas. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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