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Vargur = Marauder, Huh?

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Word	Posted - 2008.08.23 20:39:00 - [1] Wow! a T2 BS, sounds nice eh? Vargur: 4 f'ing turrets, that's it. Fitting, HI 7, MID 6, LOW 5 You really only get 5 Mids because with 11 LADAR you have to fit ECCM to bring it up to a normal 20. I tried to do the Mordu mission, against a blob of torpedo BSs and with no launchers for defender missiles, and the insufficient resistances and shield tank, it's hard to stay long enough to do any damage. Had to go back and get the Machariel to finish the mission. I was in a pirate infested system, so I wasn't too happy having to put the Mach at risk. I've been getting some nice hits, like between 1000-3000 hp on moving ships at range, but with only 4 turrets, I don't know. The targeting time is LUDICROUSLY slow, even with sensor boosters. (CCP, please add this to the list of things that are LUDICROUS) It can insta pop frigates at 100km, but for anything fast, forget it, takes too long to target. How can the Vargur be used?
Waxau Infusion. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.08.23 20:44:00 - [2] Yes. Because those 4 turret slots...so much different that the other Marauders. Like...totally underpowered. cough Many have issues with the Vargur, but none of what you've mentioned have been whined about before. So you just have the wrong idea on the ship. 1. Why do you need ECCM? 2. Why you do you need to lock fast? If you have your targets locked prior to needing to shoot them, then you have no problem there. Seriously have the wrong idea about Marauders i think.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Word Wow! a T2 BS, sounds nice eh? Vargur: 4 f'ing turrets, that's it. Fitting, HI 7, MID 6, LOW 5 You really only get 5 Mids because with 11 LADAR you have to fit ECCM to bring it up to a normal 20. I tried to do the Mordu mission, against a blob of torpedo BSs and with no launchers for defender missiles 1) 4 turrets + 100% damage bonus = effective damage of 8 turrets, half the ammo use...? 2) Why do you need ECCM? NPC jamming is 100% chance-based; doesn't make a difference what your sensor strength is. 3) Lol? Defenders? __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Asuka SoryuLangley	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:11:00 - [4] Did you never notice that marauders got a 100% turrets damage bonus? That is like having 8 turrets, and you will save ammo. About eccm: i find it quiet stupid, i never needed/used them in a mission. I'm sure you are doing it wrong somehow.
Nomad Storm Ad Astra Vexillum Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:12:00 - [5] Word.... oh wait
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:16:00 - [6] 4 turrets, with a 100% damage bonus. (as it says in your vessels description) The LADAR strength is irrelevant unless a player is trying to jam you (NPC jamming is based on chance, not sensor strength) so no need for ECCM. Sensor resolution on the Vargur isn't that much off from a conventional battleship, so locktime shouldn't deviate to much either. These btw, are stats that all Marauders have (with small variations), the main difference being the weapons and secondary bonusses. What I have heard of the Vargur is that it's grid simply doesn't allow for Artillery fits without some fitting modules, which is a valid concern. As for fast targets, there's a reason it has a drone bay, a wing of 5 mediums and 5 lights should give you the tools to take out most faster targets with ease.
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.23 21:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Word ...defender missiles... raises eyebrow New Eden Research, where science is serious business!
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.23 22:21:00 - [8] Stop replying to the troll... Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:32:00 - [9] A few comments: 1. Defender missiles are all but useless. You'd be better off fitting std missile launchers and adding to your DPS. 2. Stop fitting WCS. This is why your targeting time was crap. 3. 4 100% damage bonused turrets = 8 turrets. It has roughly the same damage pattern as a Maelstrom (but longer falloff and unable to fit artillery) 4. ECCM doesn't help you against NPC jammers. They bypass sensor strength checks. On a related note, NPC defender missiles have a set pct chance to fire against any missile. 5. The extra highs are for drone mods, tractor beams, and salvagers. Arguably, all 7 highs on a Vargur are for tractors and salvagers. For the lulz, can you please give us your Vargur fit? -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:35:00 - [10] You bought a Vargur instead of a Golem? What the hell is wrong with you. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Spaztick You bought a Vargur instead of a Golem? What the hell is wrong with you. QFE.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.23 23:42:00 - [12] Obvious troll is obvious.
Word	Posted - 2008.08.24 00:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Jana Clant Originally by: Word ...defender missiles... raises eyebrow thanks for the suggestions. In the Mordu mission , at one point, you have to tank at least 100 torpedos. Using defenders is the best way to knock them out. That's why I changed to a ship with a couple launcher slots and finished the mission. Tell me how a Vargur can accomplish a LV 4 mission against a blob of missile boat BS npc? How do you tank torpedos? Sorry that I didn't get the Golem, but unfortunately I have too many SP invested in Minmatar gunnery skills. Sorry to those with the "troll" comments. Do any of you actually use the Vargur? I read the info too, that's why I'm wondering if the Vargur is broken. It should be much better. I mean I want it to follow in the Minmatar tradition of being LUDICROUS ! Did you hear me!? I want the Vargur to be LUDICROUS. Please get busy and fix it!
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.08.24 00:53:00 - [14] I have been using the Vargur on my Minmatar character for the past week and find it works very well. I have not had a problem with the tank at all. The only PvE Minmatar BS comparable to it is a max-skilled Typhoon. I blasted through a Guristas The Assault mission with it last night, nice ship. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Word	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:11:00 - [15] Originally by: FT Diomedes I have been using the Vargur on my Minmatar character for the past week and find it works very well. I have not had a problem with the tank at all. The only PvE Minmatar BS comparable to it is a max-skilled Typhoon. I blasted through a Guristas The Assault mission with it last night, nice ship. Thanks, that's encouraging. I need to do some more work then. Appreciate it.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Word How do you tank torpedos? With an XL shield booster and 3 hardeners of the right types, usually. For Mordus, you'll be looking to Kin/Thm IIRC. Also, you'll be tanking heavy missiles, not torps. It's a very cruiser heavy mission that is actually very good for the Vargur. See: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MordusHeadhunters4 for more information. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:40:00 - [17] Originally by: FT Diomedes I have been using the Vargur on my Minmatar character for the past week and find it works very well. I have not had a problem with the tank at all. The only PvE Minmatar BS comparable to it is a max-skilled Typhoon. I blasted through a Guristas The Assault mission with it last night, nice ship. It's not a bad ship. You'll probably think it's a good ship, if you only compare it to other Matar ships. Just, whatever you do, don't compare it to a Golem/Nightmare/etc. It will make you a sad panda.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.08.24 01:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: FT Diomedes I have been using the Vargur on my Minmatar character for the past week and find it works very well. I have not had a problem with the tank at all. The only PvE Minmatar BS comparable to it is a max-skilled Typhoon. I blasted through a Guristas The Assault mission with it last night, nice ship. It's not a bad ship. You'll probably think it's a good ship, if you only compare it to other Matar ships. Just, whatever you do, don't compare it to a Golem/Nightmare/etc. It will make you a sad panda. Yes, when you compare any Minmatar BS to almost any other BS, it makes you a sad panda. With that said, the Vargur is good enough with my current setup to make it worth using my Minmatar character for some PvE while he looks for a new alliance. Makes for a nice change from the Navy Mega/Dominix + CNR/Nighthawk combo I have been using to fill my PvP ships fund. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
goober nuts	Posted - 2008.08.24 05:29:00 - [19] umm i have no issues fitting a tank and having artys with some dmg mods its all in the fit i guess here is how i have mine fitted [Vargur, missioning] True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 replace the hards with mission spec ones i just put invuls in for cap drain to make it cap stable with the tractors off ... its still no golem or kronos
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.08.24 07:58:00 - [20] Edited by: Thirzarr on 24/08/2008 08:01:07 Originally by: FT Diomedes Yes, when you compare any Minmatar BS to almost any other BS, it makes you a sad panda. Actually if you fit enough tracking the 1200s are getting rather cool for missioning. Mael with 2 tracking rigs, 3 gyro and 1 tracking enhancer kills cruisers that orbit at 20km. I was surprised myself. Longer range is better ofc, but the Mael shurely equals any other turret BS on mission comfort. edit WOW the Vargur does suck! Not even the Grid for 4 1200mm guns? Ohkay then.
Fenren Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 09:07:00 - [21] the vargur is like a hole forest of bamboo shots for the sad minmatar pandas. sure, it would make any non-minmatar a really sad panda but makes all minny-pandas happy... the ac's are great up close and with 2 t2 falloff riggs they hit far enough. the tank is good enough, and with a lg Crystal you wont have a problem tanking anything for a few minutes, wich is enough. fill lowslots with gyros and you are good to go. as long as you compare it with minmatar ships you wont be a sad panda. (remember to compare it ti minny only... or you are back to a sad panda...)
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.24 09:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Word Originally by: Jana Clant Originally by: Word ...defender missiles... raises eyebrow thanks for the suggestions. In the Mordu mission , at one point, you have to tank at least 100 torpedos. . . . I can tank that mission in an unrigged raven. I hardly think the Vargur with it's sturdier resists and tanking bonuses needs help in the form of defender missiles. Here's a pro-tip - blowing up the ships quickly makes the number of missiles drop.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.08.24 10:02:00 - [23] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 24/08/2008 10:04:06 One other thing I noticed EFTing around with the Vargur, even with all skills 5 and Republic Fleet EMP L its DPS is quite a bit lower than the other Marauders. Perhaps a trade off for something, but I'm not really seeing that, as the Golem should then have that aswell. (and since its Grid is more than enough for a set of Siege launchers it has considerably more DPS, although it needs an Afterburner too then.)
Fenren Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 10:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Meiyang Lee Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 24/08/2008 10:04:06 One other thing I noticed EFTing around with the Vargur, even with all skills 5 and Republic Fleet EMP L its DPS is quite a bit lower than the other Marauders. Perhaps a trade off for something, but I'm not really seeing that, as the Golem should then have that aswell. (and since its Grid is more than enough for a set of Siege launchers it has considerably more DPS, although it needs an Afterburner too then.) the tradeoff is it beeing minmatar and big, that meens it has to be worse than the other races. but i like that ship, it is fun and faster than any other minmatar ship for missions. and its ac's has more than enough range for the missions i do.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.08.24 10:34:00 - [25] Well with 800mm Autocannons it's DPS isn't bad at all. It's just that you'll be mostly working in falloff reducing your damage output quite a bit.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.08.24 13:18:00 - [26] The Vargur certainly does have the grid to fit 4x 1200mm artillery, with a couple of PDUs to run the tank. I have been using a setup that looks something like this: [Vargur, X's Vargur - Kin/Therm] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.24 15:58:00 - [27] Originally by: FT Diomedes The Vargur certainly does have the grid to fit 4x 1200mm artillery, with a couple of PDUs to run the tank. I have been using a setup that looks something like this: [Vargur, X's Vargur - Kin/Therm] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Due to the lowered ammo consumption, I use faction ammo most of the time. You can't fit T2 1200's without 3x PDU's... and the DPS difference between Scouts and T2 is actually significant. It's also worth noting that a 1400 Maelstrom significantly outdamages a 1200 Vargur with 2 gyros. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:05:00 - [28] 2 Faction PDUs will get the job done for the T2 1200s though, but I agree, it should atleast be possible to fit a set of 1400mm Arties on that thing. I mean, fitting 4x 425mm Rail IIs on a Kronos leaves you with almost 3000! spare grid, after fitting a tank. A Paladin with 4x Tachyon IIs fits like a glove, a Golem can easily fit 4x Siege IIs, so why can't the Vargur fit those 4x 1400mm Arties?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Meiyang Lee 2 Faction PDUs will get the job done for the T2 1200s though, but I agree, it should atleast be possible to fit a set of 1400mm Arties on that thing. I mean, fitting 4x 425mm Rail IIs on a Kronos leaves you with almost 3000! spare grid, after fitting a tank. A Paladin with 4x Tachyon IIs fits like a glove, a Golem can easily fit 4x Siege IIs, so why can't the Vargur fit those 4x 1400mm Arties? Prenerf of a neut/AC machine. Which was foolish at best, I mean, look how overpowered our current BS neut/AC machines are! I'd LOVE to take out a 700m bullseye with cap sucking mods and underpowered projectiles with a sensor strength smaller than a cormorant! Yeah! (PS. It's not like there's any other capless weapon systems out there that do craptons more DPS than autos)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:41:00 - [30] Don't forget the 38.5% actual DPS at optimal + falloff, or the fact that artillery has awful clip size/tracking/range, either.

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