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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.08.26 03:34:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Pan Dora
wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp.
Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing.
Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops.
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Kyle Klanen
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:25:00 -
[92]
Direct rewards for FW would be bull cookies and WoW in space what FW needs is resources that can be fought over like in 0.0, what form it could take I'm not sure maybe some kind of complex with an acceleration gate that only lets corresponding militia members through and fill it with shiny BS rats or high end ores so it actually desirable enough to fight over but make the system for capturing the complex very fluid so no single side could retain the ability to the enter the plex without having to defend it.
This principle would mean if the people in FW wanted the rewards they are going to have to fight for them not just shoot another ship and CCP drops ISK/LP/Honour points into their wallets.
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Bears Inc
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:32:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Amoun Ra
From my experience in FW i can see the problem with FW can be split into three parts:
1- FW as it is right now is a huge isk sink with zero reward which causes a lot of people to go broke sooner or later.
compare it with low sec piracy: huge isk+security status+space where you can fly+reputation sink with 0 reward.
Quote:
2- No tangible reward from occupying systems in FW thus discouraging people from trying to capture them so people just revert to the only thing they find interesting which is trying to fight each other which leads to problem number 1.
Yeah, that is an real issue. Let hope what they said in dev blog become true:
Quote:
In future expansions of Factional Warfare we are going to look at linking additional functionality and rewards into ranks like (and these are not promises, just current ideas) tying them into dungeons in space and adding additional equipment and ships to the loyalty store that will only be available at certain ranks. Dev Blog
Quote:
3-People don't want to risk loosing their ships so they don't like going in small numbers and just wait in high sec for a blob to form to reduce their chances of being shot so we now have massive blobs and less small gang pvp or even solo pvp which leads us back to problem 1.
They dont risk ==>> they dont get the reward. Working as intended?
My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally...
..or a mistake they did when let me post. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:33:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/08/2008 04:33:58
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Somealtofmine, Branko:
While your summaries of how to be a succesful pirate are no doubt accurate, you're missing the key point.
Faction Warfare players are generally not pirates. The majority are newer players trying PVP for the first time. They will die, losses will cost them ISK until they become experienced PVPers and develop the skills for cost effective PVP or they go run missions to finance their PVP like plenty of other PVPers that PVP for fun, not ISK.
Introducing some reward system greater than normal PVP rewards - and effectively nerfing piracy (I like a lot of pirates FYI - and use the term "pansy" with jocular affection) in my opinion is not fair to the rest of EVE, just to boost the FW player numbers.
Comprendez vous? 
I think we're trying to make the same point here. FW players don't play the way pirates do - hence they are not going to profit off PvP alone.
So they shouldn't get any really special treatment. We want to promote cost-effective piloting (rather then the blobbing they do now, often with horrible lack of tactics*).
Originally by: Farrqua
And I don't think you know what "Griefing" is with in the context of this game.
Intentionally murdering the Caldari militia and all related to it is not griefing. If anything, it's a job well done tbh. You all got guns, fight back ;)
*Just been on a funny leeroy op, btw. leeeroy the damn militias!
Originally by: Pan Dora
compare it with low sec piracy: huge isk+security status+space where you can fly+reputation sink with 0 reward.
My wallet, it disagrees.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Psydney
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:41:00 -
[95]
An angels gets its wongs when someone ends awhine poast with a...
CCP
SORT
IT
OUT!!!!!!
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Bears Inc
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:45:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Pan Dora
compare it with low sec piracy: huge isk+security status+space where you can fly+reputation sink with 0 reward.
My wallet, it disagrees.
Your wallet disagrees because you dont conduce piracy like the typical FW pilot. 
My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally...
..or a mistake they did when let me post. |
Naomi Halloran
Industry Breakthrough
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:54:00 -
[97]
Eh, I'm not too bothered by it one way or the other, mostly because I'm still fairly new to the game. But I'll be keeping an eye open to see what happens with this.
"Sarcasm is just another free service I offer. If something I said offends you... good, it was meant to." |
Lrd Byron
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Posted - 2008.08.26 04:58:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Matthias Reid
Faction Warfare is fine, and exactly as advertised. No strings PVP. If u come home and got 30 mins to waste before dinner u can hop on and try and kill some stuff. It doesnt take the dedication and foresight of a 0.0 operation.
But its been said verbattim, that if you want your PVP to mean something and have a point and a tangible reward, Join a Player corp in a 0.0 alliance. Giving FW pilots free shit and rewards is a slap in the face to every player empire that is and has ever been. The guys out in 0.0, whom fight every day to protect their space dont get any special reward from CCP. Why would it be in anyway reasonable to give these weekend warrior types.
Your reward is the the PVP.
Gotta say I agree. I joined FW for no other reason than I wanted to fight and it provided me with free targets who presumably also wanted to fight, which it did, so mission accomplished. The only thing that irks me a little is the ship type restrictions on the plexes. Its no wonder that nobody does them, who wants to PvP in a gay little t1 frigate? Not me at any rate. I guess I can understand the goal of encouraging people to participate even if the only ships they can fly and afford are hopelessly outclassed by more experienced pilots, but its not like 2 t1 cruisers won't have their way with a t2 cruiser that costs 10 times as much. Crap ships are already by far the most cost effective, they don't need any additional protection.
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Piper Halliwell
Minmatar
Phantom Squad
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.26 05:08:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
You know, PVP just isn't rewarding at all. It's a way to blow off steam, not a way to gain 'rewards'.
Signed in triplicate.
--------------------
You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
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Jones Bones
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.08.26 05:22:00 -
[100]
I still don't understand why occupancy in FW really means jackshit.
"Oh look we took Kourmonen back from the Minmatar!"
Who cares? Minnies can still dock in stations in Kourm. Hell the factions can dock in their enemies' FW stations. I don't want money to fight, i fight for lulz. But having a reason to actually "conquer" systems would be nice.
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Jones Bones
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.08.26 05:26:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lrd Byron
The only thing that irks me a little is the ship type restrictions on the plexes. Its no wonder that nobody does them, who wants to PvP in a gay little t1 frigate? Not me at any rate. I guess I can understand the goal of encouraging people to participate even if the only ships they can fly and afford are hopelessly outclassed by more experienced pilots, but its not like 2 t1 cruisers won't have their way with a t2 cruiser that costs 10 times as much. Crap ships are already by far the most cost effective, they don't need any additional protection.
Completely disagree. The FW plexes provide a buffer for smaller gangs to engage larger gangs.
Example:
Mirrorgod assembles a typical 50 Minnie blob ranging from BS class ships down to T1 frigs. We can only muster 20 Amarr to fight them. Solution? Use a medium plex to keep out their BS and BC. The plexes add variety. If every plex was unrestricted Outbreak would cyno caps constantly. You want to deal with that shit? Go to 0.0.
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techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.26 05:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
You know, PVP just isn't rewarding at all. It's a way to blow off steam, not a way to gain 'rewards'.
Keep thinking that. And I'll keep reselling loot from kills
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CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.08.26 06:23:00 -
[103]
think I understand CCP's intent with FW, but it does seem like a bit of a waste in some respects. If you're going to risk your ship and your hard-earned ISK, why do it for something that appears to be pretty meaningless. After all, if you're spoiling for a PvP fight it's not like you're going to have great difficulty finding one.
CCP wants a war between the races to spice up EVE -- fine. Then let's have a real war. A REAL war! Not some police action limited to a handful of systems where everyone is a volunteer and goes home for a brew after a hard day at the office. Instead, let the empires truly battle it out to the death. If one race gets crushed, then they get crushed. That might even result in former areas of empire space being overrun as part of an empire collapses and turned into 0.0.
0.0 alliances don't fight for fun, they fight for power, territory, and to impose their will on other people. That's the nature of war. So why should the empires be any different? FW is an obviously contrived gameplay mechanic that seems a little unrealistic at first blush. Perhaps CCP has big plan for it in the future, though.
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Onionico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.08.26 06:38:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Onionico on 26/08/2008 06:39:26
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
Originally by: Pan Dora
wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp.
Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing.
Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops.
Thanks, I'm glad someone else noticed as well. Look at her fanboi's come to rescue her.
For a peson who is supposed to give a crap about this game, this seems to be quite a conflict. Seems you'd rather score cheap kills and exploit the unrefined system to me. Allowed - sure. Lame?
Big time.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.26 06:40:00 -
[105]
Sigh,
yet another non-problem in search of a solution.
OK, so there is that shiny new thing that has been hyped and therefore everybody and his sister were trying it out.
Now numbers are gradually going down - as should be expected after the thrill of the new has worn off and a number of pilots go back to their 0.0 alliances or doing missions again or whatever else the usually prefer to do.
Why is anybody surprised by such a natural phenomenon?
What will remain after a while is the FW core of pilots who really like it beyond trying it out.
Prediction: FW numbers will level off after a while and then fluctuate with overall playerbase and some other variables - going up and down at times. Everytime causing threads to appear that either will spread doom & gloom about FW or whine about FW detracting from "real" pvp out in 0.0.
There's nothing more silly in statistics than taking a temporary trend and assuming it will continue forever until reaching some extreme end in short order.
The only true constant in eve is threads in general discussions declaring the world as we know it is about to end (badly of course).
---
ISK BUYER = LOOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:37:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 26/08/2008 13:37:58
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
Originally by: Pan Dora
wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp.
Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing.
Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops.
And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Utter and complete nonsense! You sir seem to be playing the wrong game. Eve is a single server you see. There are no shards or artificial instanced "battlegrounds" in Eve's single cluster. Faction warfare belongs to me as much as it belongs to you. It belongs to everyone - its content for all. Any eve player who wants to "influence" faction warfare is fully within their rights to come and shoot you in face - or rep your enemies or steal your loot, or scam your members, or infiltrate your corp and sell secrets, pass false intel, bump your ships out of dock range and so on and so on and so on.
Some of the participants of Faction Warfare have this crazy idea that only the people signed up to factions should be interested in the future outcome of the war and the way the plotline develops. I have to tell you that you are absolutely wrong and its time to wake up and smell the roses on this issue.
Yep thats right, you militiamen are there for MY amusement. Just as the Gallente and Matari Militia are there for yours. (and doubtless SF is there for the amusement of anyone who wants to shoot at anarchist freedom fighters).
Everything is interconnected and there are no lines of demarcation determining which bit of content is allocated to which group of players.
Learn a little bit about this game you are playing before posting on forums in future please.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:43:00 -
[107]
Originally by: oilio
http://fwstats.eve-ic.net/
and I mean literally "downhill" - look at the graphs for number of players.
The whole wardec mess has meant that (at least for Caldari) many of the best corps and FCs have gone.
The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent.
If the lines on the graph continue their trend, FW doesn't have long.
CCP need to sort this out fairly quickly, or "Empyrean Age" is gonna mean nothing at all.
I cannot speak to the state militia, but it has dropped in sixe. I was enjoying the gallente militia right up until someone found a way to bring stupid inhouse political squabbling into it.
It was supposed to be fun, no politics, no alliance BS, pvp. And for a time, it was.....
-------
CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.08.26 13:53:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
Originally by: Pan Dora
wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp.
Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing.
Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops.
What are you crying about? The reason they declared militia corporations without joining the militia is that they've established an alliance and are serious about it, not like some merc corporations we know of who rotate in and out of their alliance like it was ballroom dancing.
CCP made the mistake of holding out on RP activites that made sense, introduced the alliance format and made it almost essential to stay competative, then once everyone had adjusted to that reality they introduce this abomination of a system telling RP alliances to butcher their babies to be allowed in.
Poor planning, poor execution, it's all on CCP not on the RP nationalists out there.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:20:00 -
[109]
I'd like to see missions along the lines of:
"Go to a contested system and kill x enemy militia for x tags reward"
or... have militia players drop milita tags which you cna sell or trade in for factional gear.
The current missions of "Go 20 jumps through low sec to get ganked by a dessie gang for 20k ISK" don't really cut it!
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:26:00 -
[110]
Me and my corp quit faction war too.
Main reasons in order.
3. All the people abusing the system.
2. The complete lack of care of who owned or conquered where.
1. The novelty wore off.
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Mordekai Bloodwake
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:33:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: oilio
The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent.
Every time I see this I want to hit someone.
Quote:
THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER
HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
LOL!. Try telling that to new players that lose their ships and modules after joining in on FW thinking its PvP fun, nothing fun about losing your stuff when your new. I only say this because time and time again i see new players come to Eve to then quickly get frustrated and leave due to the death penalty Eve has in PvP.
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Level5
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:50:00 -
[112]
looks like CCP is pretty happy with FW...
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2156
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NeoTheo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.08.26 14:52:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake
LOL!. Try telling that to new players that lose their ships and modules after joining in on FW thinking its PvP fun, nothing fun about losing your stuff when your new. I only say this because time and time again i see new players come to Eve to then quickly get frustrated and leave due to the death penalty Eve has in PvP.
ld submitt to you that EvE isnt the game for them, sorry in new eden, things go bang.
Neotheo
Dark Materials
Linkage
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:03:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Level5
looks like CCP is pretty happy with FW...
Not so much happy with it, as, moving on to the next thing. Which is a bummer, I was hoping for a round of FW tweaks in 1.1. And there's not a word about that. :(
------------------
Ironfleet.com |
oilio
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:16:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Level5
looks like CCP is pretty happy with FW...
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2156
and from the interview:
"It has met its aim very well," Stuhrmann told us. "We had over 40,000 players sign up for factional warfare in the first few weeks and that trend has stayed strong."
OK, so now let's look how things are eight weeks down the line:
Caldari Militia = 5,824
Gallente Militia = 4,983
Amarr Militia = 2,909
Minmatar Militia = 4,393
Grant Total = 18,109
So if the original figures are correct, FW population is now less than half what it was two months ago.
Hopefully, this downward trend won't continue at the rate it has been. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:26:00 -
[116]
The OP is dead on correct. FW is dieing and it is going to get worse over the next few weeks. CCP needs to do something to make it mean something. Right now it doesn't mean anything. Capturing complexes and systems doesn't mean anything. There is no pride, no ownership, no benefits, no penalties, no rewards. It was fun as hell at first and can still be fun at times even though the action is dieing down due to less players involved, but the prevailing opinion is that the fun is wearing off and it is basically a pointless waste of isk and time.
Rhaegor Stormborn
Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated |
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2008.08.26 18:55:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Reaver One
The rewards of FW should be in-line with all EvE reward systems (except mission running).
What do 0.0 corps get by defending their territories? Access to resources, that's what.
What should the rewards of FW be? Access to resources, not ISK on a platter. You could simply put some high-quality 'roids in FW complexes that require ownership to mine, or simply make it possible to bump a system up in security level by securing the plexes (thus opening up the system to exploitation).
Make it so that pirate activity can lower an adjacent system's sec level as well, and designate a number of high-sec systems from all empires that can be affected in this way.
This makes it so that:
FW players are playing to open up more systems for their empire. They are rewarded by the increase in mission agents and (relatively) safe mining opportunities.
Pirates are fighting to keep low-sec free for them to exploit (via piracy), and to increase the amount of low-sec space.
they should put in 500k-1mil high end rats, so the fw fighters have some reason to hang out and make some coin..
the risk is high in fw space so the reword for ai hunting should be worth it. 
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Naomi Halloran
Industry Breakthrough
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Posted - 2008.08.26 19:31:00 -
[118]
I think they need to make it so that when you capture a system, you really capture a system. As in, in regards to the faction that you took the system from, it becomes a red-flag system to enter.
I'd also be all for claiming some of the areas that you see in missions. For instance, I came across a Shipyard on one. Why not claim it in the name of your empire and corporation, and use it to help out?
Just a couple thoughts from a clueless FW newbie, flame if you will. (I won't put on the suit, either.)
---
"Sarcasm is just another free service I offer. If something I said offends you... good, it was meant to." |
Demonic Sentiment
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.26 20:17:00 -
[119]
i think the real problem is just how much better the gallante militia is hehe.... this coming from a caldari who has defected to the gallantes
http://gallente.net?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=45015
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.08.26 20:40:00 -
[120]
FW is a deeply flawed concept to begin with. The whole idea of boring, consentual, pre-arranged combat is completely unsuited to the incredibly complex game that is eve. Second, it encourages blobbing by design, which has made low sec more like 0.0 without bubbles.
Actually, 0.0 has far less blobs.
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