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Faction Warfare is going downhill fast.

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Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:47:00 - [121] Edited by: Frug on 26/08/2008 20:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. It's not obligation free or consequence free. It's not "push button, fight, don't lose anything, leave and go about business as usual" You have to leave your corp or have your corp leave its alliance to even try it. All it is, is reward free. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
John Holt Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:58:00 - [122] Edited by: John Holt on 26/08/2008 20:59:11 I've left Factional Warfare because it's purpose was fulfilled in me. I've been introduced to pvp and low sec space. I like both. Now I've joined an alliance so I can continue to operate in low sec and so I can learn the ropes in 0.0. I see FW as a stepping stone, not a home. It's reward is introducing one to the best parts of Eve. I found it fulfilling. Carebear no more! John Holt My Personal Eve Site
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:01:00 - [123] Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 26/08/2008 20:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. It's not obligation free or consequence free. It's not "push button, fight, don't lose anything, leave and go about business as usual" You have to leave your corp or have your corp leave its alliance to even try it. All it is, is reward free. And here I thought the whole fun of EVE is that your actions have consequence. Quite frankly I'm finding the FW-lover rhetoric about it being fun and thats enough reward to be apalling. The idea that conquering systems has no material effect on the gameplay or FW in general (outside of who can conquer what) would be emberassing to me if I were CCP. We all know it and anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or lying (5..4...3....2.....1 till someone flames me for that, though they'd probably the first to post a "\o/" if ccp added rewards). I wouldn't complain if CCP would let us in on their thought process but their too worried about having their petunias scorched on the forums if the players don't like their ideas.... which leads to a nice, productive, viscious-circle -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:48:00 - [124] The real reward of Factional Warfare "should" be your efforts affecting the landscape of the game. NPC stations being destroyed, captured, planets conquered etc - That is what a real dynamic Factional War "should" be doing. But it is not, that is left to your imagination and fluff news stories. However when FW was conceived and talked about long ago all was pointing towards exciting stuff like flying with your Faction NPC in fleet operations, results affecting the macro-economies, and really making bold changes to the landscape of the empires like borders changing, stations burning etc. What was hyped, enthused about, long awaited and finally sold as a shiney Bentley... ...is in fact a Robin Reliant. Still however, just as fun to drive off a cliff and watch explode on the rocks below.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:59:00 - [125] Originally by: Jade Constantine And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Well, first, I told you what I thought was wrong with it. The publisher chose to exclude existing alliances from FW. They gave specific reasons for doing so. You're side-stepping it. It'll probably get rectified shortly, unless the publisher has changed their minds about wanting the faction militias themselves to do the fighting, and not have FW end up being dominated by existing alliances. Second, you seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit. I don't care about your RP. I don't care who comes out on the short end of FW. I think it's unfortunate that someone like you who should be setting an example is dodging the stated intent of the devs. At the end of the day, they'll either deal with you, or they won't. We'll see.
Zackay Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:05:00 - [126] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Jade Constantine And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Well, first, I told you what I thought was wrong with it. The publisher chose to exclude existing alliances from FW. They gave specific reasons for doing so. You're side-stepping it. It'll probably get rectified shortly, unless the publisher has changed their minds about wanting the faction militias themselves to do the fighting, and not have FW end up being dominated by existing alliances. Second, you seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit. I don't care about your RP. I don't care who comes out on the short end of FW. I think it's unfortunate that someone like you who should be setting an example is dodging the stated intent of the devs. At the end of the day, they'll either deal with you, or they won't. We'll see. Headshot. Incoming 5 paragraph lecture from Jade excusing her behavior. You're in the wrong Jade. Think about what you are doing and why, honestly.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:10:00 - [127] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Jade Constantine And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Well, first, I told you what I thought was wrong with it. The publisher chose to exclude existing alliances from FW. They gave specific reasons for doing so. You're side-stepping it. It'll probably get rectified shortly, unless the publisher has changed their minds about wanting the faction militias themselves to do the fighting, and not have FW end up being dominated by existing alliances. Second, you seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit. I don't care about your RP. I don't care who comes out on the short end of FW. I think it's unfortunate that someone like you who should be setting an example is dodging the stated intent of the devs. At the end of the day, they'll either deal with you, or they won't. We'll see. Then letting corps join was wrong. Since we can't have corps immune to wardecs because they're in FW (that'd be outright absurd), the only way they cannot be wardecced is by not allowing corps in there either ;P And, no, we simply cannot have corps immune to wardecs because they're enrolled in FW. So that's not a option... what gives? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zackay Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:15:00 - [128] Edited by: Zackay on 27/08/2008 04:15:38 To the poster above me. Corps don't need to be immune from war decs at all. Quite a simple fix really - kill anyone in your own militia, war dec or not, and lose some faction standing. When it drops low enough, you're out of militia. I'm pretty sure that would deal with this entire problem.
Althus Treefingers Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:31:00 - [129] Edited by: Althus Treefingers on 06/10/2008 23:32:30 As for rewards, I think LP, access to state ships etc are unnecessary. Militia aren't the navy. Basically we're supposed to be hired guns (according to storyline), but for now we're just violent philanthropists. For some reason no one's paying us to fight except in the missions. Certainly no one's paying us to take territory. The Republic Fleet peons are probably getting more ISK than I am in this war. Solution: Militia bounties on enemy player ships. (don't need to be huge, maybe just comparable to NPCs of a similar class) Straight-up ISK bonus for capping plexes. (personally I think it should be a fixed reward divided among everyone in range of the plex, leading to more significant risk/reward considerations. Again, not huge, just meaningful) Straight-up ISK bonus for capping systems. (either divided among all in range, maybe weighted by damage dealt, or a mini payout for everyone in the militia) It's a militia. They're somewhere between armies and mercenaries. Militias are people that get payed to fight. I also think FW should have some real bearing on non-FW empire, like TLF stations only accesible by Minmatar Militia, like captured Amarr systems no longer being available to the 24th or to Amarr-based corps. That sort of thing. Real world correlation: I'm not relatively safe walking around an Afghanistan warzone just because I decided to quit the military that week. If I was to be perfectly honest I'd ask for the right (as Minmatar militia) to shoot any and every thing in Amarr space, noobcorp or no .
Mako Nova	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:39:00 - [130] Originally by: Akita T Well, how about winning and losing LP for the militia corp as your FLEET wins/loses FW plexes, not just missions so far away nobody actually bothers doing ? Or, heck, the ability to request and turn in FW missions remotely, from within enemy territory, without even needing to dock ? What about militia-corp-only LP shop items that are actually desirable, as opposed to the same run-of-the-mill items you get in all regular LP stores ? How about FW-only obtainable privileges, like, say, highsec moon miners or highsec moonmining charters ? How about SERIOUS multipliers for all possible rewards depending on your empire's occupancy status ? The more systems your empire holds, the higher the offensive multipliers... the lower number of systems you hold, the higher the defensive multipliers... You know, a REASON to actually FIGHT the enemy except the fact "he's the enemy". Let's make faction warfare far better than missions, pirating, mining, or 0.0 ratting!

Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.10.07 03:49:00 - [131] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 07/10/2008 03:53:13 bleh, what's the point ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Paramite Pies Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.07 04:09:00 - [132] I love the concept of FW. Races finally duking it out. Even taking sides! But I think the way they put together FW just was all wrong. I think they should've waited an expansion or two before implementing this and putting more thought into it. I think the whole Factional Warfare thing needs to be cut, redone, and implemented again. Players need some sort of reward for their side doing good in FW, it also needs to be more fun. Etc Etc. It needs more big and small tweaks. I really dislike it. Ever since I moved away from my corporation that did FW, you can hardly tell there is even a FW feature in the game. __________________ "People die when they are killed." General Dripik's Main.
Miz Cenuij	Posted - 2008.10.07 06:03:00 - [133] FW was doomed when a certain Star Fraction CSM member abused thier power to ensure that corps would remain able to war dec corps within the militias. "Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them"
Strill	Posted - 2008.10.07 06:32:00 - [134] Originally by: Akita T Quote: These are all basically mission objectives/rewards. There would still be no meaning to FW. Hmm. Are we actually working on the same definition of the word "MEANING" here anyway ? Meaning. Purpose. A goal. Something you desire and set forth to acheive. PvP is the instrument you use to do that, not the goal. I agree with you totally, but I thought I might point out that CCP Dionysus thinks the complete opposite. He says PVP is the goal since it's "fun", and that rewards are unnecessary.
Florio Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.10.07 06:34:00 - [135] I love FW, it is so much better than fleet warfare, but agree that there are big problems (especially the war dec one) that CCP needs to sort out. And it isn't a case of improving the current system, it's a case of fixing something that is broken.
abrasive soap HOMELESS. Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:15:00 - [136] Originally by: Florio I love FW, it is so much better than fleet warfare, but agree that there are big problems (especially the war dec one) that CCP needs to sort out. And it isn't a case of improving the current system, it's a case of fixing something that is broken. fw is already fleet/blob warfare
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:24:00 - [137] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? The one and only thing I think we will ever agree on. Side note: We left FW when the gallente corps tried to make politics where none were needed! So apparently there is no such thing as bullshit free pvp, or people will find a way to make bullshit. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:25:00 - [138] Originally by: Miz Cenuij FW was doomed when a certain Star Fraction CSM member abused thier power to ensure that corps would remain able to war dec corps within the militias. There's not much that I agree on with your certain SF CSM member, but on this one thing I do agree with him. The ability of a corp to declare war and be declared on are fundamental to its identity. And the two are the opposite sides of a coin. Were PIE not able to have wars outside of FW, we'd have to consider our future in the militia. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Smog890 Minmatar Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:38:00 - [139] Its great, I love FW, but rewards would be nice... Free ship for killing enemys? My low sec status character should be able to go into high sec Minmatar space!!! i'm killing ammarr for them for the love of god they should show some love Isk for kill amarr maybe???
Liam Liam	Posted - 2008.10.07 08:14:00 - [140] The easiest thing to implement would be an LP store of some sort

Dirk Massive Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.07 08:19:00 - [141] Edited by: Dirk Massive on 07/10/2008 08:21:10 Main thing I'd like to see is fix the missioning for FW, because currently it sucks. The other thing is to reward gaining faction. What I mean is, make it more rewarding. More people would do it if there was some reward for it. As things stand now most FW pilots only really care about the pew pew, and could give a rip about the plexes. Make it rewarding in some way, and nerf the amount you gain from each plex, so you actually have to earn whatever the reward is. Overall FW I think is going well. We have weeded out the weak, and have some real good pilots out there still doing it. And I've had some of the best pvp I've ever had in FW. So for the most part I'm very happy with it so far.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.07 08:35:00 - [142] Originally by: Crumplecorn HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS This is the most engaging phrase for me in this thread, at least so far. All I can imagine now is a giant faucet in space - that streams Velators. Thank you.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.07 12:47:00 - [143] broken game mechanic is broken -
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:00:00 - [144] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Most of the FW systems being .5 would be great. Right now it's mostly pirates trying to bait the FW gangs. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:44:00 - [145] Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 26/08/2008 20:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. It's not obligation free or consequence free. It's not "push button, fight, don't lose anything, leave and go about business as usual" You have to leave your corp or have your corp leave its alliance to even try it. All it is, is reward free. It is consequence free relative to low sec piracy. It's also frequently all about the T1 at the moment which keeps it much more financially sustainable than other types of PVP. It's obligation free in that you can get into a PUG very easily without having to contribute anything prior to that. When I look at some of the terrible heathen things people in 0.0 corps have to do it seems utterly effort free by comparison.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:53:00 - [146] Originally by: Wendat Huron Right now it's mostly pirates trying to bait the FW gangs. I guess that's called a win, win situation.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:04:00 - [147] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Run around in FW for a while. Its almost like the most logical thing to do is place a board somewhere where FC's can coordinate their times from enemy fleets so as to guarantee a good fight. With a limited number of FC's there's a lot of times when times just don't coordinate, so you have a 50 man fleet on one side and noone on the other or vice versa. Rewards are nice, staged events would be better in my opinion. Gives people a date and time that they can coordinate on, rather than roaming and hoping someone will be there to fight. CCP should stage weekend fights and hand out rewards to the FC who wins. That'd be very, very cool.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:06:00 - [148] How about skill point rewards. Depending on the ship it could go for a few thousand skill points to under that. You would see everyone and their mother join if that was the case. I think it's a very good incentive.
Vixisti dearg doom	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:13:00 - [149] If all FW was supposed to be was pvp, then how come CCP thought fit to add the PVE element and ownership of systems via plexes etc? How would giving LP or isk rewards for plexing make FW pvp'ing risk free? You'll still have several hundred opposition militia online at any one time trying to stop you from doing said plex. No one is asking for rewards to be comparable to 0.0 but some reward would be nice as lots of people like the pvp style of FW as compared to 0.0 life.
Johncrab Minmatar Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:54:00 - [150] A few things need to change in FW: - Systems are now near impossible to conquer. Plexes never were fun but at least people did them because it could get them some pvp and, as the ultimate goal, people could conquer systems. - Even if people manage to conquer systems, there's no actual advantage to it. CCP should consider something to motivate people to conquer systems. Like the losing faction being locked out of stations and things like that. - Finally, the pvp sucks now. At first, everyone came out. Solo, small gangs, big fleets, you name it. Everyone could have their style of fight going on. Now, there's only the wait to form fleets, the wait for the other side to form a fleet and then, you either fight or call it a night and go to bed, after all the waiting. If you like to go out solo or with a couple of friends... you better go stealth or super-nano, because otherwise all you manage is to get kill by the nearest blob.



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